Freetalk about USA culture: 20 new messages in 15 topics

The culture of the United States of America.

03/19/06 /

Sunday, March 19, 2006

20 new messages in 15 topics - digest ==>Read...

soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Fw: TNB - MUSLIM RAPE GANGS VS. WESTERN FEMALES - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9bf4de14fc26975e
* Symposium: The Fall of Palestine - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bf8d2f3c382143f4
* U.S. Mideast policy motivated by pro-Israel lobby - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7f24c56d2db1704a
* Afghan Man Sentenced to Death for Converting - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bd295e44b8e99935
* Welcome shift in Indian Muslim attitude - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/186d4453d0574d00
* What makes a religion valid? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/692fbde3edebb694
* SCIENTISTS DISCREDIT THE OFFICIAL 911 TALE - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a03f06383880ae5a
* Televangelist Pat Robertson is wrong about 'Radical' Muslims - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ed6e9197f95711e3
* Lying leftwing media - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b0f2c457db2987b
* SCIENTISTS DO NOT BUY JEW LIES - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/616802abe63712a
* Joe Pesci and The Iraq War - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/0bf69ad0f663957b
* TOP 10 reasons why US war with Iran is a GOOD idea - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ef81186e95ae60a7
* FRICK!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep your head down, Uncle Wally - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/74e43adb67b73bac
* Nizkor Project director, Kenneth McVay, Would Rather Hurl Insults Than to
Admit His MASTERS are Anti-Free-Speech Totalitarians aka Re: BlubberBlather
rejects democratic process V3.1 U_0318 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2d444e3276dcc9dc
* US Wars: Mainly bombing wars and hiring natives to fight other natives - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/85aaaa36168c87db

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fw: TNB - MUSLIM RAPE GANGS VS. WESTERN FEMALES
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9bf4de14fc26975e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 2:07 am
From: "TheSecularist"

Forwarded from alt.religion.islam

Makes disturbing reading if true...(expecially the reports from Scandinavia)

> http://americandaily.com/article/12464
>
> By J. Grant Swank Jr. (03/19/2006)
>
> Western females are not considered moral. Because they don’t garb
> themselves from head to toe, they are asking for rape. And they get
> it—from Muslim males.
>
> There are Muslim male gangs now who are raping Western females as I type.
> These women are called "whores" by the gang members. Therefore, they
> deserve what they get.
>
> Female Muslims who cover themselves are cursed with ten curses upon
> conception, according to Islamic legalists. One curse is lifted if the
> female marries. A curse is defined as exposing one’s genitals in public.
> Therefore, Muslim females are considered worse than dung. If they get out
> of line, a Muslim male can beat or kill them.
>
> Muslim females who disgrace the clan in any way can be slain via bullet in
> head or neck slit by Muslim male clan members. Saddam Hussein’s soccer
> stadiums were used more for murdering Muslim females than athletics. Right
> now some Muslim woman is being caned because her ankles are showing or is
> being slaughtered for dishonoring her clan; this is called "honor
> killing."
>
> But Western females appear to be far worse than even Muslim females.
> Western females are just waiting to be molested, raped and then tossed
> aside, according to Sharon Lapkin of FrontPageMagazine.com
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=20646
>
> Is there any question as to the "reason" these Muslim males rape Western
> women? No. They quickly inform the non-Muslim why.
>
> From 1998 until 2002, Muslim male gangs taunted Australian girls,
> particularly in Sydney. The females were labeled "sluts" and "Aussie
> pigs," therefore, they were bait for rape.
>
> "In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a visiting
> Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no,
> because they were not wearing a headscarf.
>
> "And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz
> Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape
> victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who wore
> skimpy clothing, invited men to rape them."
>
> As more and more Muslims move into Western nations, this gang rape will
> increase because it is part of the Muslim male killing cult, otherwise
> known as their "religion." It is all goes back to their cultic beliefs
> woven into their irrational, immoral folklore that has grown up with them.
>
> When these street Muslim males get the academic support from professors,
> then all the more they consider themselves on a legitimate, Allah-
> ordained, Koran-sanctioned mission. This is the part of Islam world rule.
> This is to be. This is part of the overall program.
>
> "A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid
> Mehdi created uproar when – like his peer in Australia – he stated that
> women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.
>
> "And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported
> that visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape
> victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were
> raped. He added, ‘For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must
> have shown good conduct.’"
>
> Consequently, one can follow the "reasoning" to its logical conclusion
> which is that if the street kids can get by with it, the supposed
> sophisticated, educated Muslim males can, also.
>
> Therefore, for all this talk among Muslims about the West being decadent,
> the Muslim settlements themselves are rife with lust and mistreatment of
> females. It goes back to females cursed from conception. It would have
> been better for them if they had never been born. Earthly existence is
> imprisonment. It is hell.
>
> This is what Islamic outspoken Ghada Jamshir repeats over and over again.
> She, a Muslim, speaks worldwide, seeking to change Islam regarding
> females. She proclaims that Muslim females are imprisoned for life;
> therefore, if Muslims put her in jail, it will be no harsher fate that
> what Muslim females endure now.
>
> Read http://www.americandaily.com/article/10998
>
> ISLAM FEMALE KICK-BUTT : GHADA JAMSHIR
>
> Ghada Jamshir has been put on trial, accused of defaming Sharia law and
> insulting an Islamic judge. She, leading her women’s rights conclave,
> lobbied for a personal status law which would shift jurisdiction over
> family and women’s affairs to civil courts.
>
> When she went to court, she was accompanied by her women activist
> supporters.
>
> The judge read out three charges against her: public defaming of Islamic
> judiciary through distribution of literature, insulting a judge and
> defaming him.
>
> Of course Ghada Jamshir plead innocent.
>
> "The charge of insulting a Sharia judge during a phone call is
> fabricated," she said.
>
> "All these charges against me have been compiled since 2001 because of a
> vigil we [committee] organized two months ago, in which we demanded the
> resignation of the general prosecutor," she said, instigating a round of
> applause from the female audience in the courtroom.
>
> Ghada Jamshir’s group collected 1700 signatures demanding legislative and
> judicial reforms to family courts.
>
> "I do not care if I go to prison, because we already live in a big prison.
> I will never stop, nor go silent nor give up my position," she said. She
> sought to ban Shairia judges from dealing with marriage contracts.Do the
> statistics show this increase trend of Muslim gang rape against Western
> females? Yes.
>
> "In Norway and Sweden, journalist Fjordman warns of a rape epidemic.
> Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen stated that the steady increase of rape-
> cases and the link to ethnicity are clear, unmistakable trends. Two out of
> three persecutions for rape in Oslo are immigrants with a non-Western
> background and 80 percent of the victims are Norwegian women.
>
> "In Sweden, according to translator for Jihad Watch, Ali Dashti, ‘Gang
> rapes, usually involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish girls,
> have become commonplace.’ A few weeks ago she said, ‘Five Kurds brutally
> raped a 13-year-old Swedish girl.’"
>
> Again, this is not considered crime. It is considered "meant to be." For
> some Muslim males, rape is an act of piety. It is following what Allah
> would want. Non-Muslims, after all, are infidels who should be enslaved or
> slain; therefore, what is wrong with rape if murder is better?
>
> However, Western women are not the only victims. "In Indonesia, in 1998,
> human rights groups documented the testimony of over 100 Chinese women who
> were gang raped during the riots that preceded the fall of President
> Suharto. Many of them were told: ‘You must be raped, because you are
> Chinese and non-Muslim.’"
>
> Consequently, the Muslim male definition for a rape victim is not
> nationality but religion. If one is not Muslim, one is rape bait.
> Actually, again, it must be pointed out that Islam is not a religion among
> world religions. It is a killing cult. All other world religions tolerate
> those who do not agree with their tenets. Islam does not; death to those
> who do not convert to Islam.
>
> "Christian Solidarity Worldwide reported that in April 2005, a 9-year-old
> Pakistani girl was raped, beaten with a cricket bat, hanged upside down
> from the ceiling, had spoonfuls of chillies poured into her mouth, and
> repeatedly bashed while handcuffed. Her Muslim neighbors told her they
> were taking revenge for the American bombing of Iraqi children and
> informed her they were doing it because she was an ‘infidel and a
> Christian.’
>
> "In Sudan – where Arab Muslims slaughter black Muslim and Christian
> Sudanese in an ongoing genocide – former Sudanese slave and now a human
> rights’ activist Simon Deng says he witnessed girls and women being raped
> and that the Arab regime of Khartoum sends its soldiers to the field to
> rape and murder. In other reports, women who are captured by government
> forces are asked; ‘Are you Christian or Muslim?’ and those who answer
> Christian, are gang raped before having their breasts cut off."
>
> Is there an outcry from the National Organization for Women? Not that I
> know of.
>
> Is there a worldwide feminist rebuff of these Muslim rape gangs? What
> about Muslim women and men in Western countries who claim to be "moderate"
> Muslims? Do we hear from them in protesting this mistreatment of non-
> Muslim females? I have not heard a clamor.
>
> Because NOW and like liberal organizations remain in the killing mode via
> their own agendas, they are hardly going to champion fighting Muslim rape
> gangs. NOW supports killing womb babies, including female babies,
> therefore, NOW is in no moral shape to complain about anything done by the
> Muslim males. NOW favors killing of morality, Judeo-Christian ethics, the
> biblical definition of masculinity, femininity, marriage, family, and so
> forth. NOW is not life-focused. It is death-entrenched; therefore, it
> could not fight against Muslim mistreatment of females for NOW does the
> same.
>
> To speak out against Muslim rape gangs is to take the risk of being called
> "racist." Today it is becoming posh to say nothing factually negative
> about Muslims. They can get by with anything, demand anything, and expect
> to get it for the liberal segments of nations are supporting them. No
> wonder the zealots believe that Islam world rule is on its way.
>
> "In Australia, when journalist Paul Sheehan reported honestly on the
> Sydney gang rapes, he was called a racist and accused of stirring up anti-
> Muslim hatred. And when he reported in his Sydney Morning Herald column
> that there was a high incidence of crime amongst Sydney’s Lebanese
> community, fellow journalist, David Marr sent him an e-mail stating, "That
> is a disgraceful column that reflects poorly on us all at the Herald."
>
> As soon as facts are shown concerning Islam atrocities, Muslims scream
> that they are being mistreated. As soon as it was known that US President
> George W. Bush had surveillance operating in America to spy out enemies of
> the nation, Muslims appealed for a meeting in Washington DC so that they
> could speak with top executives. They got their wish.
>
> Muslims meet with high US government officials in DC. They get the red
> carpet treatment. Why?
>
> Read from the Muslims’ own web site what they are doing in DC?
>
> Read http://www.mpac.org/home_article_display.aspx?ITEM=860
>
> MPAC Coordinates Meeting with FBI on Surveillance Reports
>
> This is the first paragraph from that link on that web site:
>
> "The Muslim Public Affairs Council today was invited to meet with FBI
> Deputy Director John Pistole in mid-January to address reports of
> widespread surveillance and radiation monitoring of more than 100 Muslim
> American mosques, homes and businesses. MPAC will facilitate the
> participation of leaders from other prominent national American Muslim
> institutions in the Jan. 11 meeting."
>
> Read from the Muslims’ own web site what they are doing in DC?
>
> Read http://www.mpac.org/home_article_display.aspx?ITEM=859
>
> MPAC Calls for Meeting with Mueller & Gonzalez on Surveillance Reports
>
> This is the first paragraph from that link on that web site:
>
> "The Muslim Public Affairs Council today called for Attorney General
> Alberto Gonzales and FBI Director Robert Mueller to meet with American
> Muslim leaders in response to reports of widespread surveillance and
> radiation monitoring of more than 100 Muslim American mosques, homes and
> businesses. John Miller, FBI Assistant Director of Public Affairs, said
> such a meeting to address civil rights concerns is imminent."
>
> "Keysar Trad, vice-president of the Australian Lebanese Muslim Association
> said the gang rapes were a ‘heinous’ crime but complained it was ‘rather
> unfair’ that the ethnicity of the rapists had been reported.
>
> "Journalist Miranda Devine reported during the same rape trials that all
> reference to ethnicity had been deleted from the victim impact statement
> because the prosecutors wanted to negotiate a plea bargain.
>
> "So when Judge Megan Latham declared, ‘There is no evidence before me of
> any racial element in the commission of these offences,’ everyone believed
> her. And the court, the politicians and most of the press may as well have
> raped the girls again."
>
> No one will use the "M" word when reporting news. "Muslim" cannot be used
> in the liberal newsfeeds for it smacks of prejudice, they say. But these
> killers are not merely "insurgents" and "terrorists." They are Muslim
> murderers global and Islamic killers international. That fact must be
> mentioned or those intent on Islam world rule will get their dream.
>
> "According to The Guardian, during the recent French riots, a Saudi Prince
> with shares in News Corporation boasted to a conference in Dubai that he
> had phoned Rupert Murdoch and complained about Fox News describing the
> disturbances as ‘Muslim riots.’ Within half an hour he said, it was
> changed to ‘civil riots.’"
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Symposium: The Fall of Palestine
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bf8d2f3c382143f4
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:13 pm
From: "serwad"

"DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
news:mgnTf.17709$iR1.9959@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:oanTf.1143$4Q.1056@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
>> news:thkTf.17692$iR1.13499@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
>>> news:441dcb05$0$21265$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>>> DoD wrote:
>>>>> "John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
>>>>> news:441c779d$2$6655$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People or groups that use Islam and the Quran to limit peoples
>>>>>>>> freedoms and
>>>>>>>> liberties and oppress groups. Now with that said, do you think that
>>>>>>>> Gays would be tolerated in a Hamas run country?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am waiting........
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can wait forever son, it has nothing to do with the argument
>>>>>
>>>>> It has EVERYTHING to do with the argument.
>>>>
>>>> It most certainly does not. The wrongs of others have nothing to do
>>>> with
>>>> your wrongs. You are capable of changing the ideas in your country,
>>>> please do so, sweep in front of your own house and when that is clean
>>>> you can start looking at the dirt elsewhere. At the moment you are seen
>>>> in the world, quite rightly, as an imperialist nation run by a moron
>>>> and
>>>> chock full of other morons.
>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>> will not get a reply. I don't give a tinker's cuss about gays
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't matter if you like gays or not. It has to do with
>>>>> liberties and freedom.
>>>>
>>>> Liberties and freedom? Don't make me fucking laugh son. When you invade
>>>> a country there is no liberty or freedom for the invaded. You are
>>>> occupying a sovereign country illegally after an invasion based on
>>>> complete, utter and proven lies,
>>>
>>>
>>> We were talking about Gaza and having Hamas run it. And running it by
>>> the rules of the Koran. You have now went into the thick as pigshit
>>> catagory and I deal with toooo many euro morons as it is..... buh bye
>>> ass-wipe
>>>
>>> K-fed....
>> 1.6 billion
>
> 1.2 billion and falling.
Draem on arsehole. It is the bloody jews that are being erazed from the face
of the Earth
>
>> people on the globe live by the rules of the Quran.
>
> Really? Do you have proof of this?
Sure do! How many countries have muslims invaded in last 30 years?
>
> You profess
>> to live by Old Testament,
>
> No, I don't.
>
> but do not fulfill even a singe one of the Ten
>> main Testaments
>
> I might break a few every now and again. So what?
so you are A piece of shit that believes in NOTHING!
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 1:37 am
From: "DoD"

"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bhnTf.1146$4Q.541@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
> news:mgnTf.17709$iR1.9959@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:oanTf.1143$4Q.1056@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
>>> news:thkTf.17692$iR1.13499@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>> "John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
>>>> news:441dcb05$0$21265$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>>>> DoD wrote:
>>>>>> "John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:441c779d$2$6655$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People or groups that use Islam and the Quran to limit peoples
>>>>>>>>> freedoms and
>>>>>>>>> liberties and oppress groups. Now with that said, do you think
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Gays would be tolerated in a Hamas run country?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am waiting........
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can wait forever son, it has nothing to do with the argument
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has EVERYTHING to do with the argument.
>>>>>
>>>>> It most certainly does not. The wrongs of others have nothing to do
>>>>> with
>>>>> your wrongs. You are capable of changing the ideas in your country,
>>>>> please do so, sweep in front of your own house and when that is clean
>>>>> you can start looking at the dirt elsewhere. At the moment you are
>>>>> seen
>>>>> in the world, quite rightly, as an imperialist nation run by a moron
>>>>> and
>>>>> chock full of other morons.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> will not get a reply. I don't give a tinker's cuss about gays
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't matter if you like gays or not. It has to do with
>>>>>> liberties and freedom.
>>>>>
>>>>> Liberties and freedom? Don't make me fucking laugh son. When you
>>>>> invade
>>>>> a country there is no liberty or freedom for the invaded. You are
>>>>> occupying a sovereign country illegally after an invasion based on
>>>>> complete, utter and proven lies,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We were talking about Gaza and having Hamas run it. And running it by
>>>> the rules of the Koran. You have now went into the thick as pigshit
>>>> catagory and I deal with toooo many euro morons as it is..... buh bye
>>>> ass-wipe
>>>>
>>>> K-fed....
>>> 1.6 billion
>>
>> 1.2 billion and falling.
> Draem on arsehole. It is the bloody jews that are being erazed from the
> face of the Earth

So you admit that Muslims are trying to eradicate Jews from earth.....Glad
you admitted that.

>>> people on the globe live by the rules of the Quran.
>>
>> Really? Do you have proof of this?
> Sure do! How many countries have muslims invaded in last 30 years?

Plenty. Check this out.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

>> You profess
>>> to live by Old Testament,
>>
>> No, I don't.
>>
>> but do not fulfill even a singe one of the Ten
>>> main Testaments
>>
>> I might break a few every now and again. So what?
> so you are A piece of shit that believes in NOTHING!

Not true....

www.ewtn.com

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:54 pm
From: "serwad"

Scholars for 9-11 Truth hold press conf outside Moussaoui Trial
1 comment(s).
(Alexandria, Va.) - Once again, 9-11 truth is making every effort to break
through into the mainstream arena.
On the afternoon of Tuesday, March 14, 2006, the Scholars for 9-11 Truth
held a press conference outside of the Albert V. Bryan U.S. District
Courthouse in Alexandria, Va. where the trial of accused 9-11 terrorist
Zacharias Moussaoui is currently underway. Speakers included Professor James
Fetzer, retired Air Force Colonel George Nelson, and attorney Phil Berg.

But as their press conference was set to begin before an extensive lineup of
mainstream news outlets such as CNN, Fox News, the Associated Press, and
local D.C. affiliate stations, attempts were made by law enforcement
officials (bearing ID's that read "POLICE ICE") to prevent the Scholars from
speaking to the press. (ICE = Immigration and Customs Enforcement,
Department of Homeland Security)

These agents initially informed the Scholars that they would need to move
their conference beyond the law enforcement perimeters of Courthouse
Square - away from the press corps. But Professor James Fetzer, organizer of
this event, informed the agents that the Scholars had a right to address the
press, and also provided them with the credentials of Phil Berg (a former
Deputy Attorney General & former candidate for Governor, Lt. Governor, and
U.S. Senate); and George Nelson (a retired United States Air Force colonel).

Upon request, the ICE agents were also provided copies of press statements
by both Fetzer and Berg. They then met with the presiding judge - Leonie
Brinkema - who subsequently granted permission for the press conference to
proceed.

First at the podium was Professor Jim Fetzer, who stated that the official
9-11 scenario is categorically false, not merely in its specific details,
but in regard to its most basic features. His remarks included:

- The Towers did not collapse from the plane impacts or subsequent jet fuel
fires. - No Boeing 757 appears to have hit the Pentagon. - Flight 93 is a
mystery. - The official story violates the immutable laws of nature. - The
melting point of steel is at least 1,000 degrees higher than the maximum
temperature attainable by jet fuel.

He also pointed to other "smoking guns" such as:

- The enormous dust clouds created by the pulverized concrete, and the
enormous energy source needed to initiate them. - The black billowing plumes
of smoke, indicative of oxygen-starved/suffocating fires.

The next individual to greet the press was retired USAF Colonel George
Nelson, who stated, "I'm pushing seventy years of age, and I'm a man with a
conscience. I'm about to turn this country over to my children, and I don't
like what I see."

Nelson also asked a number of questions, including:

1) Why weren't we allowed to see physical evidence from any of the crash
sites?
2) Why weren't any accident reports filed for the four 9-11 flights?
3) Why weren't any cameras allowed within 1,000 feet of the Shanksville
"crash site"?

Following these inquiries, Colonel Nelson addressed the press directly by
saying, "Airplane metal just doesn't evaporate." Reiterating this point, he
said the crater at Shanksville was only 20 feet long by 10 feet wide; thus,
how could a 757 fit into a hole that size? Likewise, Nelson mentioned that
Flight 77, which was said to have hit the Pentagon, had a 125 foot wingspan,
yet the impact hole was only 16 feet wide. Furthermore, this aircraft
supposedly penetrated three of the Pentagon's outer rings and made perfectly
round holes. Not only is this physically impossible, but the amateur pilot
who allegedly flew this craft did not even remotely possess the skills or
expertise necessary to perform such maneuvers.

Nelson continued by saying that if we're to believe that Flight 77 struck
the Pentagon's ground floor, it would have first had to make contact with
the Pentagon's lawn before hitting the building (i.e. there should have been
more metal wreckage outside the Pentagon than inside of it). Yet, any 9-11
Pentagon photograph will show the lawn remained pristine and unscarred after
the plane's impact. Plus, the debris field was inconsistent with that of an
airplane crash.

The final speaker this day was attorney Phil Berg, whose remarks included an
extensive listing of especially damning points in regard to the official
9-11 story. These included:

- William Rogriguez (The Last Man out of the Towers) heard explosions in the
Towers before they ever fell, yet his testimony to the 9-11 Commission was
omitted from their final report. - Similarly, Transportation Secretary
Norman Mineta's "devastating testimony" regarding Dick Cheney's control of
the military stand-down was also not included in the final whitewash
report. - Rudolph Giuliani was told that the Towers were going to fall prior
to their actual collapses, subsequently causing him to evacuate his 23rd
floor command bunker at WTC 7. - The lightning-fast removal of evidence,
including steel beams and other debris from the Ground Zero collapse site. -
Absolutely no investigation by SEC officials of the "put options" that
occurred days prior to 9-11.

Berg went on to say that of all the people he's met since the 9-11 attacks,
90% of them feel they haven't been told the entire truth about what took
place. He then described his ongoing RICO lawsuit filed against George W.
Bush, Dick Cheney, and 53 others, essentially saying that, "We have a mob in
the White House," and that they "had foreknowledge, and engaged in a failure
to act, a failure to prevent, and a massive cover-up of 9-11."

In conclusion, Berg said, "This is the murder of 3,000 people," and also
commented on the differing schools of thought (LIHOP vs. MIHOP): "If they
let it happen on purpose, then they made it happen on purpose." Plus, the
ramifications of 9-11 have had a wide-reaching affect on everybody, for
right now under the Patriot Act, Phil Berg said, "They can take me away as a
subversive."

Following the press conference at an impromptu photo-op, Phil Berg
continued, saying that "Bush, Cheney, and others should be put on trial for
treason and sent to jail." In this same vein, 9-11 researcher Webster
Tarpley had the following to say about Zacharias Moussaoui: "He's a
psychotic, militant patsy who is several degrees of understanding below Lee
Harvey Oswald."

============================

After listening to over thirty minutes of hard-hitting information delivered
by Fetzer, Nelson, and Berg, the press corps was invited to ask questions.
Remarkably, only one reporter made an inquiry: "Why would they do it? What
were their motives?" Professor Fetzer answered with a litany of reasons,
including the infamous PNAC missive and the need for a "New Pearl Harbor"
which would lead us into Afghanistan, Iraq, and beyond. After this
explanation, no other questions were posed to the Scholars, despite the
substantial amount of information they provided.

We did notice one journalist with tears in her eyes as she scribbled
furiously on a notepad while listening to Professor Fetzer. If we hearken
back to what Colonel Nelson said about conscience, the question remains:
will members of the mainstream media start following their conscience by
exposing the lies of 9-11, or will they continue to aid and abet in the
ongoing cover-up of the gravest crime ever committed against this country?

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/ale...

By : Victor Thorn & Lisa Guliani (WING TV)
March Sunday 19th 2006

begin 666 rien.gif
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#```[
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end

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2,0$%?$8QC1\QD97!5<<5`0`[
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end

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 6:20 pm
From: "DoD"

"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:UTnTf.1155$4Q.811@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

MUSLIM RAPE GANGS VS. WESTERN FEMALES
By J. Grant Swank Jr. (03/19/2006)

Western females are not considered moral. Because they don't garb themselves
from head to toe, they are asking for rape. And they get it-from Muslim
males.

There are Muslim male gangs now who are raping Western females as I type.
These women are called "whores" by the gang members. Therefore, they deserve
what they get.

Female Muslims who cover themselves are cursed with ten curses upon
conception, according to Islamic legalists. One curse is lifted if the
female marries. A curse is defined as exposing one's genitals in public.
Therefore, Muslim females are considered worse than dung. If they get out of
line, a Muslim male can beat or kill them.

Muslim females who disgrace the clan in any way can be slain via bullet in
head or neck slit by Muslim male clan members. Saddam Hussein's soccer
stadiums were used more for murdering Muslim females than athletics. Right
now some Muslim woman is being caned because her ankles are showing or is
being slaughtered for dishonoring her clan; this is called "honor killing."

But Western females appear to be far worse than even Muslim females. Western
females are just waiting to be molested, raped and then tossed aside,
according to Sharon Lapkin of FrontPageMagazine.com
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=20646

Is there any question as to the "reason" these Muslim males rape Western
women? No. They quickly inform the non-Muslim why.

From1998 until 2002, Muslim male gangs taunted Australian girls,
particularly in Sydney. The females were labeled "sluts" and "Aussie pigs,"
therefore, they were bait for rape.

"In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a visiting
Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no, because
they were not wearing a headscarf.

"And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz
Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape
victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who wore skimpy
clothing, invited men to rape them."

As more and more Muslims move into Western nations, this gang rape will
increase because it is part of the Muslim male killing cult, otherwise known
as their "religion." It is all goes back to their cultic beliefs woven into
their irrational, immoral folklore that has grown up with them.

When these street Muslim males get the academic support from professors,
then all the more they consider themselves on a legitimate, Allah-ordained,
Koran-sanctioned mission. This is the part of Islam world rule. This is to
be. This is part of the overall program.

"A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid
Mehdi created uproar when - like his peer in Australia - he stated that
women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.

"And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported that
visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape
victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were
raped. He added, 'For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have
shown good conduct.'"

Consequently, one can follow the "reasoning" to its logical conclusion which
is that if the street kids can get by with it, the supposed sophisticated,
educated Muslim males can, also.

Therefore, for all this talk among Muslims about the West being decadent,
the Muslim settlements themselves are rife with lust and mistreatment of
females. It goes back to females cursed from conception. It would have been
better for them if they had never been born. Earthly existence is
imprisonment. It is hell.

This is what Islamic outspoken Ghada Jamshir repeats over and over again.
She, a Muslim, speaks worldwide, seeking to change Islam regarding females.
She proclaims that Muslim females are imprisoned for life; therefore, if
Muslims put her in jail, it will be no harsher fate that what Muslim females
endure now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.S. Mideast policy motivated by pro-Israel lobby
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7f24c56d2db1704a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:02 pm
From: "Islam Will Replace Collapsing Amerikan Empire"

U.S. Mideast policy motivated by pro-Israel lobby

The U.S. Middle East policy is not in America's national interest and is
motivated primarily by the country's pro-Israel lobby, according to a study
published yesterday by researchers from Harvard University and the
University of Chicago.

Observers in Washington said yesterday that the study was liable to stir up
a tempest and spur renewed debate about the function of the American Israel
Public Affairs Committee lobby. The Fatah office in Washington distributed
the article to an extensive mailing list.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1597975/posts

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Afghan Man Sentenced to Death for Converting
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bd295e44b8e99935
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 5:19 pm
From: "ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com"

Seeker wrote:
> <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> > Seeker wrote:
> >> <visualseeplus@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> >> > Religion of Peace folks.
> >> >
> >> > KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who allegedly converted from Islam
> >> > to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be
> >> > sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.
> >>
> >> Harami Hindu, you have such laws in India too where pain of death is
> >> imposed on anyone converting out of Hinduism.
> >
> > There is no such law.
>
> I distinctly remembering reading about such a law in Tamil Nadu.

Death penalty for conversion? Such a law hasn't even been proposed in
India. For a person to convert himself out of Hinduism (or any other
religion) is not even a crime.

> Has that law been repealed?

If there was such a law in Muslim princely states, it has been repealed
after they became part of India. There has never been such a law in
non-Muslim states in India.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Welcome shift in Indian Muslim attitude
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/186d4453d0574d00
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 5:22 pm
From: "Mortayee"

analyst41@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mirza Ghalib wrote:
> > Was the 'famous evangelist' Pat Robertson? I recall
> > one of them compared Mohammad to a terrorist, or
> > something like that about 2 years ago.
> > ==============================================
> > A NEW TREND IN ISLAMIC DISCOURSE!
> > By Sandhya Jain
> > Organiser.org, March 19 issue
> >
> > When the cartoon controversy broke out, for the first time in public
> > memory, a member of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board conceded
> > that a fellow Muslim was offending Hindu sentiments by painting
> > goddesses, particularly Ma Saraswati, and Bharat Mata, in the nude.
> >
> > Something is churning deep in the heart of Indian Islam, which calls
> > for careful watching and deep analysis, as there are no obvious
> > answers. Yet even a surface view shows that orthodox Muslims,
> > especially religious leaders and scholars, wish to change the old
> > grumpy don´t-enter-my-ghetto approach towards the Hindu majority. At
> > the same time, the contours of a schism between secular Muslims and
> > rooted-in-Islam Muslims are becoming apparent, and this calls for
> > investigation.
> >
> > One does not know when this shift took place, but the controversy over
> > the Danish cartoons lampooning the Prophet has made it evident. As some
> > politicians have raised the cartoon controversy in connection with
> > Tuesday´s (March 7) blasts in Varanasi, it may be pertinent to begin
> > here.
> >
> > The linking of the cartoons with the bombs that took several lives in
> > the holiest Hindu city suggests that the blasts are an Indian Muslim
> > response to what happened in a European country. This is possible as
> > some years ago, a famous American evangelist said something on a
> > popular talk show in his own country and riots broke out in Sholapur,
> > Maharashtra. The local MP went on to become the chief minister.
> >
> > This time, however, there are reasons to believe that Indian Muslims
> > are not interested in such contrived reactions to promote the political
> > careers of non-Muslims. Nor are they interested in a sterile anti-Hindu
> > approach towards securing their interests and ambitions in this
> > country. That is why, when the cartoon controversy broke out, for the
> > first time in public memory, a member of the All India Muslim Personal
> > Law Board conceded that a fellow Muslim was offending Hindu sentiments
> > by painting goddesses, particularly the Saraswati, and Bharat Mata, in
> > the nude.
> >
> > Kamal Faruqi said he found the paintings shocking and unacceptable.
> > There were no puerile excuses, such as Husain is not a practicing
> > Muslim; his birth in a Muslim family establishes his Muslim identity.
> > Later, the same view was espoused by the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, the
> > man who once justified Taliban iconoclasm against the Bamiyan Buddhas.
> > Yet, after condemning the nude Saraswati at a protest rally one Friday,
> > the Imam further condemned the placement of Rama and Sita on tissue
> > paper by a western firm.
> >
> > This unique sensitivity towards revered Hindu icons suggests that the
> > religious leadership and orthodox elements in the Muslim community want
> > to prevent a communal divide and confrontation in India. This is partly
> > because the Muslim leadership feels that violence is
> > counter-productive, but more pertinently because the leadership of the
> > international Ummah feels that Muslims must have political agency in
> > their homelands. This means western domination of Islamic countries in
> > the Gulf must be reversed, and further, that Muslims must have a stake
> > in power in the western countries where they have sizeable populations,
> > but no voice.
> >
> > Since domination of hinterland nations like India makes no sense if one
> > does not own one´s own heartland, Islam must logically seek to defuse
> > its violent face in India and seek amity with its Hindu neighbours. The
> > mindless offer of a Rs 51 crore bounty for the head of unknown Danish
> > cartoonists by a foolish minister in UP does not detract from this
> > argument. But the provocation in the Congress-ruled Hyderabad and the
> > Varanasi blasts which have taken innocent lives is truly disturbing.
> >
> > If, as the Mulayam Singh Government believes, the Pakistan-based
> > Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) is behind the mayhem, and a terrorist killed in
> > Lucknow is a Pakistani, then it follows that orthodox Indian Muslim
> > leaders are distancing themselves from Pakistan, jehadi terrorism, and
> > anti-Hindu misdemeanours. These leaders were quick to condemn the
> > violence. It is, therefore, likely that they will privately command the
> > faithful that jehad in India is a tool of western imperialism and
> > jehadis are mercenaries of an anti-Islam conspiracy. This is, of
> > course, not an act of altruism towards the Hindu community, but because
> > peace in India is imperative for the inevitable conflict in Europe.
> >
> > Sadly, it appears that forces are working to push Hindus and Muslims
> > into a conflict neither side desires, and political leaders across the
> > spectrum would do well to conduct themselves with caution and decorum.
> > Congress has said it will act maturely, but the opposition BJP has
> > unfortunately created the opposite impression. While the initial
> > spontaneous reaction of party president Rajnath Singh was nuanced and
> > careful, the subsequent hijacking of the issue by leaders who announced
> > bandhs and yatras has created a wrong impression. Actually, bandhs are
> > last century´s weapons and have outlived their utility.
>
> The best human being on earth is an
> educated,gentle,cutured,tolerant,somewhat unworldly Hindu. Indian
> Muslims are immersed in an aura of gentleness,tolerance and sense of
> humor emanating from the Hindu matrix that surrounds them.
>
> The inevitable process (albeit at a glacial pace) that is making Indian
> Muslims tolerant and empathetic gets temporarily halted and even
> reversed by occasional Hindutva excesses, but cannot be stopped.

A more realistic explanation is that in the presence of instant global
electronic media many Islamic acts of terrorism, xenophobic
demonstrations and issuing of fatwas is producing an expected and
understandable world-wide revulsion and giving Muslims a very bad
publicity. It is leading to severe social and economic consequences.

As far as the Indian scenario is concerned, Indian (and one hopes rest
of the South Asian Muslims) MAY have begun to realise that they are
being used as pawn by a number of foreigner powers, who have much to
gain by weakening them and India, and by extension South Asia.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What makes a religion valid?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/692fbde3edebb694
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 5:29 pm
From: "Arindam Banerjee"

ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > > No, the Gods and Goddesses are moral and wonderful, and the true source
> > > > of our own morality and purpose, and all that we enjoy.
> > >
> > > As Socrates asked Euthyphro: Does God say something is morally good
> > > because it is morally good, or is something morally good because God
> > > says so?
> >
> > By the time of Socrates, the Greeks had quite totally lost touch with
> > their original India consciousness. Socrates had no idea about the
> > Vedas or the Puranas.
>
> Neither did Homer. Neither did earlier Greeks. That's because they
> didn't have any original India consciousness any more than Indians had
> any original Greek consciousness.

Robert Graves says that the ancestors of the Greeks originated from
India. (Greek Myths, Vol. 1). Given their early love for Helios
(Surya) the Sun God, and basically the ancient Greek and Roman
consciousness which was very similar to the Bengali consciousness I do
know about, that looks quite right and natural to me. The Serbs next
door told me that their ancestors told them their origin was from
India. Looks like there was a long history of interaction. Shri PN
Oak has written about Indians travelling all over Europe, and
establishing Indian culture, in the distant past, so my point is hardly
original. Europeans came to India in big and small groups, but they
also went out. The Gypsies are the latest example.

We don't get this very often with the sort of anti-Hindu education we
get in India, that tries it utmost to diminish the importance Hindu
India had in the past. For example, who in school in India ever read
that the largest temple complex in Asis at Angkor Vat in Cambodia was
purely Hindu, showing Vishnu and Sagar Manthan? I certainly didn't. I
had heard of it, but had thought it was Buddhist.

However, travel to Europe, and meeting real Europeans, reading more
books, does change perspectives. Hindu influence spread to the East,
there is no reason why it did not in the West. Just that, those in
power there do not want to acknowledge it.

> > So in the Indian context, what is morally good is understood from the
> > examples of those who followed the Vedic heritage
>
> So, these are morally good:
> In a reference to the sacrifice of a goat (RV 1.162.2) "The dappled
> goat goes straight to heaven, bleating to the place dear to Indra and
> to Pusan."
> "To the Asvins he sacrifices a dusky, to Sarasvati a ram, to Indra a
> bull" (Yajur 1.8.21.e)

What is really morally good, is not to discuss any translation of holy
Hindu texts with those whose main objective is to demean them. To take
things out of place, twist them, totally ignore the good parts, and
make out that their resulting ill efforts represent the whole, is their
forte. One or two passages taken at malice out of the whole lot of
truly wonderful work, only shows the ill intentions of those who do so.

In any case, the sacrifice shown is nothing in scale compared to what
is happening in Western slaughterhouses. What is the killing of one
dearly brought up animal, to that of millions and billions of
unfortunate animals, slaughtered for the Western belly gods, as their
atheistic followers, though greedy, are incompetent cooks? Also,
Indian religion today and in the recent past has rarely been associated
with animal slaughter. Only a few public pujas involve animal
slaughter, and these are old traditional pujas. Most of the modern
sacrifices are symbolic, like the coconut or gourd.

Sacrificing animals is one of the least important issues in the Vedic
heritage. To make it appear the one and only issue, shows up the
untenable moral and intellectual position of the anti-Vedic people.

The other important issues of the Vedic heritage are: family values,
the science of proper speech, mythology, morality, grammer, literature,
mathematics, ritual, arts and crafts, science, medicine, political
organisation, war, manners, attitudes and behaviours, philosophies,
music, agriculture, commerce .... It sums up to more than just animal
sacrifice!

> > Shallow questions such as put up by Socrates are merely to be laughed
> > at, unless one has the low moral and intellectual calibre of atheists.
> >
> > Still, to answer it: Since by our own theistic consciousness, we hold
> > God to be good, then what God does has to be good, what God says has to
> > be good. It has to be moral.
>
> So, If God says "kill your neighbor", it has to be good.

First, we have to be sure if some God is really saying that. In the
Vedic context, no God or Goddess comes and tells someone to kill
someone. Or in day to day life, involves Himself or Herself in any
material way, at all.

In the abstract sense, since we mortals are Gods and Goddesses in
fleshly bonds, we can argue with Them, and be sure of the morality of
the action of killing the neighbour. It may be, that the neighbour is
a mass murderer about to start on another rampage - in which case, it
is moral to kill him or at least prison him after being sure of his
guilt.

> It has to be
> moral according to those with the high moral and intellectual calibre
> of theists. Those with low morals might disagree and claim that it is
> bad.

Western thought processes are so different! Not having the Vedic
perspective leads to all sorts of confusions.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 5:32 pm
From: "Arindam Banerjee"

ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > > No, the Gods and Goddesses are moral and wonderful, and the true source
> > > > of our own morality and purpose, and all that we enjoy.
> > >
> > > As Socrates asked Euthyphro: Does God say something is morally good
> > > because it is morally good, or is something morally good because God
> > > says so?
> > >
> > > > Atheists are the inevitable arseholes, who have to be there, to provide the balance
> > > > and also the reference. Like: heaven-hell, saint-robber, theist-atheist.
> > >
> > > In that case, here's a story of the arsehole Buddha saving a lamb about
> > > to be sadistically sacrificed as per the instructions of morally
> > > wonderful gods:->
> >
> > This issue of sacrifice is always raised by arsehole atheists who
> > murder billions of lambs to satisfy their belly gods. Ever been to a
> > slaughterhouse?
>
> To remind oneself of what arseholes gods are?

No, to remind yourself that in the absence of Gods there is nothing but
ugliness and suffering, relieved by some temporary satisfaction of the
senses, and the ego.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 5:33 pm
From: "Mortayee"

Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > No, the Gods and Goddesses are moral and wonderful, and the true source
> > > of our own morality and purpose, and all that we enjoy.
> >
> > As Socrates asked Euthyphro: Does God say something is morally good
> > because it is morally good, or is something morally good because God
> > says so?
> >
> > > Atheists are the inevitable arseholes, who have to be there, to provide the balance
> > > and also the reference. Like: heaven-hell, saint-robber, theist-atheist.
> >
> > In that case, here's a story of the arsehole Buddha saving a lamb about
> > to be sadistically sacrificed as per the instructions of morally
> > wonderful gods:->
>
> This issue of sacrifice is always raised by arsehole atheists who
> murder billions of lambs to satisfy their belly gods. Ever been to a
> slaughterhouse?
>
> In the days of Buddha, people were mostly vegetarians.

They became vegetarian after adopting Buddhism.

>The only times
> they got to eat a bit of meat was when they sacrificed some lamb or
> goat. If that much killing was not done, then they would become
> totally mild and lose their martial spirits.
>
> Anyway, the Gods themsleves never asked for animal sacrifice. It was
> the priests who did that, to keep the spirit of violence alive, in
> order to maintain the martial spirit of the population.
>
> Lord Krishna says that he will be satisfied with a leaf or flower given
> to him, with true devotion.
>
> A sacrifice is always symobolic. Like at a temple, you shave off your
> hair, thus sacrificing your vanity for the Divine. You do not cut off
> your head! However, in Puranic texts, descriptions of mutilation as
> sacrifice are common. But, only the silly or really stupid mind can
> take them literally. What it really means is that to get the love of
> the Divine, you have to give up what is dear to you, or be in a frame
> of mind to give up what is dear to you. Without the spirit of
> sacrifice, there is all-encompassing selfishness and meanness, and no
> worthwhile society can last like that. If nothing else, they would
> perish from childlessness, for they would be too lazy and selfish to
> care for their own offspring.
>
> Buddhism led to the drop of the martial spirit and the subsequent
> enslavement of India.
>
> The defeated Greeks encouraged Buddhism, as they knew it would destroy
> India's martial spirit, which was mixed with a great deal of kindliness
> and love for Nature.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SCIENTISTS DISCREDIT THE OFFICIAL 911 TALE
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a03f06383880ae5a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 5:46 pm
From: "serwad"

He also pointed to other "smoking guns" such as:

Nelson also asked a number of questions, including:

The final speaker this day was attorney Phil Berg, whose remarks included an
extensive listing of especially damning points in regard to the official
9-11 story. These included:

============================

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/ale...

By : Victor Thorn & Lisa Guliani (WING TV)
March Sunday 19th 2006

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end

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M1TE&.#EA" `+`+,``,P`,_7(TM8B3-$'-OG?Y?C7W]$$,]8(.O___P``````
M`````````````````````"'Y! 44``@`+ `````(``L```09$,E)JYWC#F&/
2,0$%?$8QC1\QD97!5<<5`0`[
`
end

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Televangelist Pat Robertson is wrong about 'Radical' Muslims
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ed6e9197f95711e3
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 1:46 am
From: "Anarchist"

> if you think you will get rid of islam without a huge war,
> you are mistaken.

The converse is true. It is not enough to a have a war.
You have to take on the Muslim ideology.

For moderate Muslims, you have to show them exactly what the Quran contains
and implies.
Eventually they will feel alienated from their own religion as Wafa Sultan
was and many others

Anarchist

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lying leftwing media
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b0f2c457db2987b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:56 pm
From: Paul Duca

in article UtIQf.2959$k75.497@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net, Leif Erikson
at pipes@thedismalscience.net wrote on 3/11/06 5:49 PM:

> Arthur Stone wrote:
>
>> Leif Erikson wrote:
>>
>>> Arthur Stone wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Leif Erikson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lying artie stein snipped out the context. Karl wrote:
>>>
>>> FX is leftwing? PLEASE! What a crock of shit!
>>>
>>> To which I replied:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> When it comes to hopping on the PC exploitation of
>>>>> bogus race issues, you betcha!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or in your case. The creation of bgus race issues.
>>>
>>> *I* didn't write, direct or produce the phony race
>>> "issues" portrayed in the bogus "reality" show, artie.
>>> The producers of that show are the ones who created a
>>> bogus race issue, because their political agenda needs it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your opinion of a show which you haven't actually seen.
>
> The facts of the shooting of that episode - that the
> pro-shop of a municipal, open-to-everyone public course
> was called the pro-shop of "an all-white country club";
> that the driving range of that supposed c.c. was at a
> still different course - are not in dispute.
>
>
>>
>> But I forgot. The color of a person's skin no longer matters. Sorry.
>
> It shouldn't, but as long as the liberal media keep
> "instructing" us on how eeeeeeevil white America is,
> and keeps reinforcing the phony self-image of blacks as
> ceaselessly put-upon, it *will* matter. It shouldn't,
> but the liberal media, and liberals like you, *need* it
> to matter. It's mostly because you're stuck in the past.
>
Things were better when we ignored them.

Paul

>
>> No more race issues. Fin.
>
> Some day, artie; some day. At least, if we can get rid
> of all race-conscious school admissions and hiring and
> contracting policies and laws...
>
> And non-whites learn to be content with their menial role--or join
> people like me in pretending things will be made better.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SCIENTISTS DO NOT BUY JEW LIES
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/616802abe63712a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:59 pm
From: "serwad"

He also pointed to other "smoking guns" such as:

Nelson also asked a number of questions, including:

The final speaker this day was attorney Phil Berg, whose remarks included an
extensive listing of especially damning points in regard to the official
9-11 story. These included:

============================

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/ale...

By : Victor Thorn & Lisa Guliani (WING TV)
March Sunday 19th 2006

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#```[
`
end

begin 666 puce.gif
M1TE&.#EA" `+`+,``,P`,_7(TM8B3-$'-OG?Y?C7W]$$,]8(.O___P``````
M`````````````````````"'Y! 44``@`+ `````(``L```09$,E)JYWC#F&/
2,0$%?$8QC1\QD97!5<<5`0`[
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end

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Joe Pesci and The Iraq War
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/0bf69ad0f663957b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 6:00 pm
From: "Sid9"

bush,jr conceived the Iraqi war.
bush,jr is responsible for the Iraqi war
bush,jr is responsible for the failure in Iraq.

*No one else*!

Jag_Pop@Hotmail.com wrote:
> Joe Pesci and The Iraq War
>
> In the movie JFK Joe Pesci had a very memorable line:
> "It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma!"
>
> The line continued: "The fuckin' shooters don't even know! Don't you
> get it?"
>
> Is the Iraq war similar?:
>
> -It's a plan, wrapped inside a screwup, of a delusion fed to and run
> by an idiot.-
>
> We all know who the idiot is that I refer to. The delusion he was fed
> was of the neocon variety:
>
> Richard Perle aka Prince Of Darkness is recognized as a
> chief architect of the Iraq War.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> March 3, 2003
>
> Richard Perle: You are imagining a U.S. general riding roughshod
> over Iraqis and confirming the worst fears of Muslims around the
> world that we are an aggressive, imperialist power. I have another
> view. We have Ahmed Chalabi, chief of the opposition Iraqi National
> Congress, to enter Baghdad. Ending the current Iraqi regime will
> liberate the Iraqis. We will leave both governance and oil in their
> hands. We will hand over power quickly-not in years, maybe not
> even in months-to give Iraqis a chance to shape their own destiny.
> The whole world will see this. And I expect the Iraqis to be at least
> as thankful as French President Jacques Chirac was for
> France's liberation.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Neocons fed the idiot President the dream that we would
> pied-piper the Iraqis into Baghdad, Chalabi would be vested
> with the throne and all would be a bed of roses. Then the
> rest of the Middle East would see how wonderful it is in Iraq
> and Kum Ba Yah!
>
> But were ALL the Neocons this dumb, or did they just pretend
> to be?
>
> If you spend some time reading (I'll admit I just skimmed)
> Neocon material from the Clinton years you might piece
> together what they really had in mind. I'll say I am vague
> on how the details piece together, someone can offer their
> opinions about the complex ties in the Middle East.
>
> The picture I got from their material is that they foresaw
> a realignment that was favorable to the US-Jordan-Israel
> block if Iraq was dismantled. They believed that the
> natural center for the Shiites in southern Lebanon (on
> Israel's border) was with the Shiites in southern Iraq. That
> the natural spiritual center is there in Najaf and Karbala Iraq.
> This would supplant Iranian influence in Lebanon, and
> in turn diminish Syrian influence. Diminishing Syrian
> influence would trigger the demise of the mafia running
> Syria (aren't they wishful thinkers). Moreover, the
> Iranian Revolution is NOT in complete spiritual alignment
> with the spiritual beliefs of the leaders in Najaf and Karbala,
> so the Neocons are hopeful that a swing towards Najaf , in
> the Shiite community as a whole, would trigger a reversal
> of the Iranian Revolution.
>
> There is more, a whole lot more, but the bottom line is
> that their plans bear no relationship to the sweet picture
> that the general public is presented -
> that of a seed of democracy taking flower and spreading
> across the Middle East, which is the delusion Bush was
> fed and Bush screwed up big time.
>
>
> Jag Pop
> "...just a goddamn piece of paper"
> Bush, November 2005

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TOP 10 reasons why US war with Iran is a GOOD idea
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ef81186e95ae60a7
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 6:10 pm
From: "DarkFire"

jpsmith123@yahoo.com wrote:
> Christian Williamson wrote:
> > Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> > > TOP 10 Reasons why the U.S. going to War with Iran is a GOOD idea...
> > This would be funny if Iran's violation of the NPT
> LOL! The U.S. is the one in obvious violation of the NPT, not Iran.
-----------------------------------
You're talking about "morality" here? I think we went a little beyond
that, when Prophet Muhammed and his decendents butchered half of Asia
and Europe, raping children for fun and profit, and then Christopher
Columbus showing up on the shores of America.

As for Iran, all we need to know that it is against America, and sides
with the Chinese. This is reason enough to attack them. If the world
were a fair place, then it will have no need for Hitlers, Stalins or
even Napoleans.
-----------------------------------

> and the instability
> > its pursuit of nukes will cause in the world.
>
> What evidence do you have that Iran is pursuing "nukes"?
> And even if true, who are you and the U.S. to say who can and can't
> have nukes?
-----------------------------------
Because we are US... That is the only reason you need...
-----------------------------------

> > > http://tinyurl.com/m9zzl
> > > Or,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2522359
> > > Jai Maharaj
> > > http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> > > http://www.mantra.com/jai
> > > Om Shanti

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FRICK!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep your head down, Uncle Wally
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/74e43adb67b73bac
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 6:10 pm
From: "The Last 2468 days™ ♥"

John Lemke wrote:
> Hey, one of our favorite peoplez needs to keep his eyes open and some fresh
> water, bread and vegemite stored away. We want him around for another 2,600
> days.
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/19/060319124159.3z1os73l.html
>
> You stay in touch now, hear?
>
> Hooroo!!!!!!!!!!!

yeppers ! yes siree yes indeedy do !

Well, U beat me to it, John -- I was just about to post all about
this....
Fortunately it didn't directly hit Cairns, which has an international
airport, large
shopping complexes & a population of over 100,000 peoplez !!

It hit a much smaller town called Innisfail, population 10,000, which
iz 85 kilometers
south of Cairns.....

The sugar cane industry will be hard it by this though, this Cyclone
being stronger than Cyclone Tracy was way back in 1974 !

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a8TIA_eeOtfE&refer=top_world_news

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/innisfail-mayors-desperate-plea/2006/03/20/1142703257277.html

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-03/20/content_4321014.htm

Hooroo/ Cheerio / Tata !!!

UNCLE WALLY (Thank yer mutha' for the rabbits & don't forget to
frickin' well close
the back door on the way out !!!! -- See U in the Soup !!! ;-)

---0---

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nizkor Project director, Kenneth McVay, Would Rather Hurl Insults Than
to Admit His MASTERS are Anti-Free-Speech Totalitarians aka Re: BlubberBlather
rejects democratic process V3.1 U_0318
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2d444e3276dcc9dc
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 2:12 am
From: Herr Doktor Tavische

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:30:56 -0700,
<catamont-5E0099.18305619032006@news.giganews.com> Sara Salzman
<catamont@concentric.net> wrote:

>In article <1orr12hcuucmpsr9svkp977r5vjn7hlj0g@4ax.com>,
> Herr Doktor Tavische <Doktor_Tavische@TAVISCHE-GMBH-CENTRAL.NET>
> wrote:
>
>> On 19 Mar 2006 11:52:24 -0600, <szku09ufhk7.fsf@fnord.io.com> The Chief
>> Instigator <patrick@io.com> wrote:
>>
>> >R. Scott Bradbury <Doktor_Tavische@TAVISCHE-GMBH-CENTRAL.NET> writes:
>> >
>> >>(This post deals with Free Speech on a World Wide Scale.) Classic Repost-
>> >
>> >It's four years old, Flatulent Fascist of Bellville. Spamming *is* looked
>> >down on by respectable ISPs.
>>
>> What I posted is as relevant today as it was four years ago.
>>
>
>Which is not relevant at all.

McVay and Company's attacks on free speech are very relevant today and more so
than four years ago!

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.canada/msg/2cc4123a3e717d35?fwc=1
Subject: Nizkor Project director, Kenneth McVay, Would Rather Hurl Insults Than
to Admit His MASTERS are Anti-Free-Speech Totalitarians aka Re: BlubberBlather
rejects democratic process V3.1 U_0222
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:52:00 -0600
Message-ID: <m82ov1tphu898e4houno69341ts2mrk9p2@4ax.com>

Your deceitful out of context quotes which are actually telling lies are not
relevant you pathological liar!

"Quoting out of Context
If you quote someone, but select the quotation so that essential context
is not available and therefore the person's views are distorted, then you've
quoted "out of context." Quoting out of context in an argument creates a straw
man fallacy.
Example:
Smith: I've been reading about a peculiar game in this article about
vegetarianism. When we play this game, we lean out from a fourth-story window
and drop down strings containing "Free food" signs on the end in order to hook
unsuspecting passers-by. It's really outrageous, isn't it? Yet isn't that
precisely what sports fishermen do for entertainment from their fishing boats?
The article says it's time we put an end to sport fishing.

Jones: Let me quote Smith for you. He says "We...hook unsuspecting passers-by."
What sort of moral monster is this man Smith?

Jones's selective quotation is fallacious because it makes Smith appear to
advocate this immoral activity when the context makes it clear that he doesn't."
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacies.htm#top (Archived locally as: Fallacies)

"Moore ethics at UVSC
September 19, 2004
Michael Moore's visit to campus has been lauded as getting a big name
and getting a draw. His politics are characterized as liberal and left wing and
the cost has the appearance of exorbitance. Yet none of these are reasons to
object to his coming. The reasons to object reside in his blatant lies, in his
twisting of the truth and calling it a documentary. It is not that I disagree
with his politics (though in fairness, I do) that prompts this response: I
disagree with bringing to our campus a blatant, one sided, unscrupulous
propagandist whose use of free speech has abandoned the ethical limits that make
free speech valuable, and to paying him a huge fee and saying it is in the
interest of being even handed or that it teaches skillful filmmaking. Such
positions are untenable on their face.
I object to bringing someone here who has been documented, in at least
60 specific instances in Fahrenheit 9/11 by at least a dozen reputable writers
and researchers, as lying, misinterpreting, misquoting and quoting out of
context, and then using the results as his stock in trade. Moore has gained his
notoriety by skillful lying. He has done so in a medium that evidently has
almost no limits on propriety. He presents bits of truth mixed with lies and
innuendo. He provokes situations with unprepared individuals and then edits his
film to make his victims look foolish and inserts comments that twist the
presentation...
We at UVSC claim a great deal of identity based on our ethics program,
and now we have invited a guest whose behavior has all the appearance of being
antithetical to one of our foundations, one even lauded in our proposed mission
statement. Being a big name and a draw is not enough. Fairness; yes. Two sides,
even one-sided at a time; sure. But at least let them have a foundational ethic
that allows us to deal rationally with them. It is not a matter of bringing in
another point of view: it is a matter of bringing in a liar.
Paul Tanner, Ph.D.
Department of English and Literature" <end>
http://www.netxnews.net/vnews/display.v?TARGET=printable&article_id=414f27248cc6e
(Archived locally as: OutOfContextLying)

>Sara

An example of your out of context smear:

>--
>-My name is not "Fatbury Scumbag" you stupid lying Jew bastard. Name call
>is all a pathetic loser like you has! You have yet to prove me wrong
>you dirty filthy lying Jew bastard!
>-I don't rely on personal attacks as my means of posting and the bulk of
>my posts prove so! You can't discern the difference. BTW my name is not
>Fatboy you stupid kike.
> --Scott Bradbury, who completely misses the irony of the above

Your lie and hypocrisy exposed:

Your out of context smear above now shown for the deceit it is:
>-My name is not "Fatbury Scumbag" you stupid lying Jew bastard. Name call
>is all a pathetic loser like you has! You have yet to prove me wrong
>you dirty filthy lying Jew bastard!

Notice I called Art Tandy a lying Jew Bastard (which he is) AFTER I had my fill
of his continual verbal abuse! I guess you expect me to not respond to such
abuse in the manner I did which is another reason why Jews are despised. Most
people hate double standards!

The above exchange was a result of this:
<start/quote>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8774def87f65d8db?fwc=1
Subject: Re: Anti-Gun Organizations are Jewish ...
Message-ID: <ple4cv8432qih0sft30s5tqi7junbkc0c3@4ax.com>
References: <abf0ff5d.0305132018.3d30c66b@posting.google.com>
On 13 May 2003 21:18:58 -0700, <abf0ff5d.0305132018.3d30c66b@posting.google.com>
tarzan@indystart.com (knight57) wrote:

><deleted unreliable bullshit by the psychotic and chronic liar named
>Fatbury Scumbag>

My name is not "Fatbury Scumbag" you stupid lying Jew bastard. Name call is all
a pathetic loser like you has! You have yet to prove me wrong you dirty filthy
lying Jew bastard! <END>
------------------------
Rather than dealing in facts your Jew decided he would rather engage in
name calling and chose to ignore my proofs and it is all fully documented here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.nationalism.white/msg/8fd00d6cb881ab3d?fwc=1
Subject: Arthur J. Tandy in Denial About Who The Main Gun Grabbers Are!
Message-ID: <rtasbv05mohed914ktef95j9dh3kc11dmr@4ax.com>
Date: 11 May 2003 11:35:17 GMT (Archived as: AJT1)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.nationalism.white/msg/e8a753c50b100597?fwc=1
Subject: Arthur J. Tandy's Fellow Jews Are Trying to Extend Their Gun Control!
Message-ID: <kf6dcv8pgph2v568bnlhda66md7d4q8bg0@4ax.com>
Date: 11 May 2003 11:35:17 GMT (Archived as: AJT2)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8774def87f65d8db?fwc=1
Subject: Re: Anti-Gun Organizations are Jewish (Classic Repost from January 17,
1997) Message-ID: <ple4cv8432qih0sft30s5tqi7junbkc0c3@4ax.com>
Date: 14 May 2003 13:23:47 GMT (Archived as: AJT3)
<end/quote>

>-I don't rely on personal attacks as my means of posting and
>the bulk of my posts prove so!

Still TRUE and my original postings as a whole are not personal attacks!
The greater majority of Art Tandy's posts are name calling and personal
attacks which seems to be a very common method of reply by Jews and their
gentile USEFUL IDIOTS! Anyone reading the above three archives will see me
presenting many documented facts and in every case Art Tandy would reply
with: "I deny it, you ignorant fat piece of lying shit.. You are a fat lying
ignorant fuck.. Fatboy Turns Blind and runs Away from the Issue.. I am
telling the TRUTH, something you cannot do very well, fatscum.. That
doesn't prove all Jews support gun control, you fucking moron. Your
logic is ridiculous and you are a stupid degenerate lowlife... <deleted
unreliable bullshit by the psychotic and chronic liar named Fatbury Scumbag>"

>You can't discern the difference.
>BTW my name is not Fatboy you stupid kike.

Who called names first? It is Okay for Jews to hurl abuse in post after post but
when the recipient gets tired of it and calls the bastard a KIKE then you think
it is ironic or hypocritical. If you Jews don't like being called kikes, swine,
vermin etc, then STOP calling everyone you can't refute names!

> --Scott Bradbury, who completely misses the irony of the above

No, there is no irony. I will call you obnoxious Jews what you are every time
I've had my abundant fill of your name calling! If you don't want me to call you
and your fellow Christ Denying Pharisees KIKES or Lying Jew Bastards/Bitches in
reply to your kind's continual insults hurled at me then you should stop with
the name calling! Plain and simple!!

Tavish

_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: US Wars: Mainly bombing wars and hiring natives to fight other natives
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/85aaaa36168c87db
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 6:17 pm
From: "B.T.World"

(As in Vietnam, it is the same fallacy of more bombing and
killing and setting up one group in an invaded nation to fight another
group. Kill, divide and conquer?

It will all be in vain, and Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Blair will go
do down in history as mass murderers and war criminals. They
started a war of choice and killed over a hundred thousand in a
country they invaded illegally and immorally.

The New Iraq War Strategy: More Bombings, More Civilian Deaths, Less
Likelihood of Success
Michael Schwartz, Ph.D.

Michael Schwartz, Professor of Sociology at Stony Brook University, has
written extensively on popular protest and insurgency, and on American
business and government dynamics.

January 3, 2006

Commentary on Seymour Hersh's "Up in the Air"

Seymour Hersh's latest article in the New Yorker is over a month old
by now, and therefore would seem a little like old news. But, like so
much of his reporting, Hersh's article contains at least a few
nuggets that ripen with time and take on more importance as events play
out in Iraq. Two of his key points-one central to the article, the
other almost an afterthought-are of particular importance, and worth
reviewing as the Iraqis endure yet another chapter in the American
effort to crush the resistance.

The first of these key themes is the one that was most prominently
commented upon. Hersh broke the story-which is now all over the
mainstream press-that the U.S. is going to try a new military
strategy in Iraq: more intensive air power and less intensive foot
patrols. This will involve fewer U.S. offensive operations (like those
in western Anbar that involved evacuating whole cities), increased use
of Iraqi armed forces in high resistance areas, and a massive increase
in the use of aerial attacks. In the short time since Hersh wrote the
article, this new policy has been aggressively enacted. the Washington
Post, quoting U.S. military sources, reported that the number of U.S.
air strikes increased from an average of 25 per month during the
Summer, to 62 in September, 122 in October, and 120 in November.

There are several aspects to this new strategy that we need to keep in
mind.

First, this is an attempt to lessen the strain on U.S. troops-the
U.S. military in Iraq is in grave danger of collapsing, as it did in
Vietnam. So the new strategy seeks to reduce the number of patrols
(which are the most grueling and dangerous missions American soldiers
undertake) and compensate with more air raids. The hope is that this
switch in emphasis will make it possible for U.S. troops to endure more
tours of duty in Iraq. But probably this won't work. Here is what one
military officer told Hersh: "if the President decides to stay the
present course in Iraq some troops would be compelled to serve fourth
and fifth tours of combat by 2007 and 2008, which could have serious
consequences for morale and competency levels."

We should not lose track of the importance of this comment. The U.S.
military cannot sustain the war at its current level of intensity. As
Representative John Murtha commented in his press conference calling
for U.S. withdrawal, "Our military is suffering. The future of our
country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course." In a
very real sense, then, this change in strategy is an act of
desperation.

Second, this change in strategy is an attempt to find a better way to
fight the resistance, since the search and destroy operations have
failed miserably, even while they have inflicted incredible destruction
and carnage in the cities under attack. But it also means a more
explicit use of state terror. The U.S. cannot occupy a city with air
power. As a military officer told Hersh: "Can you put a lid on the
insurgency with bombing? No. You can concentrate in one area, but the
guys will spring up in another town." The logic of air power (since
Guernica in the Spanish Civil War) has always involved a predominant
element of "bombing the population into submission." The U.S.
military leadership hopes to so injure the population that it cries
"uncle" delivers resistance fighters to the Occupation, and begins
cooperating with the Occupation-all in order to stop the punishment.
With 500 and 2000 pound bombs that destroy everything-buildings and
people- in up to a 700 diameter area, air power does have a powerful
terrorizing effect, and it is altogether plausible that such a strategy
could work. Even U.S. military reports of recent air attacks give a
sense of the brutality involved, as independent reporter Dahr Jamail
recently documented. And Washington Post reporter Ellen Knickmeyer
recounted chilling accusations from medical personnel and local
civilians as a result of the American offensive in early November,
including 97 civilians killed in Husaybah, 40 in Qaimone, 18 children
in Ramadi, with uncounted others in numerous other cities and towns in
Western Anbar province.

Whether or not the targets were insurgents, the disregard for the lives
of civilians trapped inside the buildings demolished by air attacks is
part of a larger pattern articulated by an American officer to NY Times
reporter Dexter Filkins early in the war: "the new strategy must
punish not only the guerrillas, but also make clear to ordinary Iraqis
the cost of not cooperating."

This is terrorism by definition-attacking the civilian population to
get it to withdraw support from the enemy. The change in strategy,
therefore, represents the embrace of terrorism as the principle tactic
for subduing the Iraqi resistance.

Third, Hersh mentions that American officials and other observers are
concerned that this new air strategy will give Iraqi troops
responsibility for calling in U.S. bombers, and therefore could result
in the use of U.S. air power for revenge against rivals and/or for
ruthless and wanton attacks on civilians. However, these fears are
misplaced, for two reasons. First, all Iraqi units are under the
ultimate command of the U.S. forces (they are integrated into the
larger Occupation military structure) and are not allowed to act
autonomously. The U.S. places American officers with each Iraqi
military unit (even platoons), and these officers have ultimate control
of any actions taken. No air strikes could be ordered without Americans
approving them. Second-and far more important-the American policy
is already maximally ruthless, as the quote above makes clear. The
rules of engagement are that any resistance at all from any location
(house, commercial shop, mosque, school) should be met by overwhelming
force, air power if tanks or artillery are not available. Nothing the
Iraqis could do would be worse, even if they select different targets.
They might, in fact, be less vicious (if they could actually control
the air strikes), since they might avoid schools and mosques.

As if this new policy would not add enough mayhem to the already brutal
mix in Iraq, Hersh gestures at another negative dynamic that the U.S.
presence is animating. Speaking of the accusations that U.S. withdrawal
would facilitate or unleash a civil war, Hersh writes:

'In many areas, that[civil] war has, in a sense, already begun, and
the United States military is being drawn into the sectarian violence.
An American Army officer who took part in the assault on Tal Afar, in
the north of Iraq, earlier this fall, said that an American infantry
brigade was placed in the position of providing a cordon of security
around the besieged city for Iraqi forces, most of them Shiites, who
were "rounding up any Sunnis on the basis of whatever a Shiite said to
them." The officer went on, "They [the U.S. troops] were killing
Sunnis on behalf of the Shiites," with the active participation of a
militia unit led by a retired American Special Forces soldier. "People
like me have gotten so downhearted," the officer added.'

Hersh is understating American culpability. It is the Americans who
recruited, trained and then stationed the Shiites in these Sunni areas,
and-as this quote indicates-the Iraqi units are part of an American
sweep, and the bulk of the killing was done by Americans "on behalf
of the Shiites."

This is not an Iraqi policy-it is an American one. This very
policy-of using Shiites and Kurds against Sunnis-has been the
trigger for the long wave of car bombings by Sunnis against Shia
targets. And, moreover, the U.S. is running the parts of the Ministry
of the Interior, that commands the Wolf Brigade and other special
forces that commit terrorist attacks against Sunni clerics who support
the resistance, as well as other Sunni leaders. The use of Shia and
Kurdish forces in Sunni areas has become a linchpin of U.S. military
policy, and it is the key provocation that has redirected Sunni anger
toward Shia and Kurds. That sectarian violence is the chief dynamic
leading to civil war.

So what do we conclude? As U.S. military strategy in Iraq has begun to
unravel, our military has adopted progressively more vicious methods to
attempt to maintain its control of the country. In the current
iteration, this involves escalated bombing attacks against densely
populated urban areas in an attempt to bomb the Sunnis into submission,
and the development of anti-Sunni brigades of Shia and Kurdish troops
to inflict punishment on resisting cities. The American role in Iraq
continues to get uglier.

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