Freetalk about USA culture: 24 new messages in 18 topics

The culture of the United States of America.

03/19/06 /

Sunday, March 19, 2006

24 new messages in 18 topics - digest ==>Read...

soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Iranian president now wants to nuke Israel? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9db07a9499996043
* the ethology of blonde, brunette, and red-head - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/41c74845a22190da
* CHE FALSO MEDICO - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d81d441175421c54
* Afghan Man Sentenced to Death for Converting - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bd295e44b8e99935
* PSA: Abortion methods - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d54a793aeabcdb61
* Muslim rape works? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bf8d2f3c382143f4
* ANTI ZIONAZI, IRAQI JEW SPEAKS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6859532e6208b222
* Cost of Iraq war could surpass $1 trillion - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7fc4054fa02114e3
* 1/2 WHAT I HEARD ABOUT IRAQ IN 2005 by Eliot Weinberger - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fd5f5c6a8038ce3e
* 2/2 WHAT I HEARD ABOUT IRAQ IN 2005 by Eliot Weinberger - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cc0c0d6d693d3574
* "Salad Bar" is a slow learner! BAD DOGGIE! BAD DOGGIE! BAD, BAD .... - 2
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e8403aabe2a4928c
* Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp") - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
* TORTURE, AS AMERICAN AS APPLE PIE IS! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a4d7afbcfd3126b9
* Islam denounces Terrorism - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/96d0cb9f64c0a9cd
* UNA VEZ MAS SE COMPRUEBA LO MARICONES Y PUTAS QUE SON MUCHOS EN LOS MEDIOS
MASIVOS.. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/397e95a9683b4e58
* Back to the days of religious frenzy. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fd503a98cf151d31
* "Baseball Players, Yes - Castro No !!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ddf17b29dfecda8
* "Maoist planted Varanasi Bombs"- Say Pakis - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d4e7ca1826b1219f

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Iranian president now wants to nuke Israel?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9db07a9499996043
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 7:51 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

In <441dcb04$0$21265$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> by John of Aix
<j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> on Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:57:30 +0100 we perused:
*+-I don't care about that, what I want to know is how are they geting on
*+-bringing Elvis back from his spaceship behind comet Kouhoutek?

On an AWACS seagull driven by JFK, of course.

I forgot to tell you, don't be frightened,
Elvis & JFK now have pointed ears.

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 3:52 am
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

I'm not convinced Iran actually exists: just as with the 1980
hostages, there seem to be roving bands of thugs, as soon as one of
them approaches compromise with us, another one pushes them over.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the ethology of blonde, brunette, and red-head
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/41c74845a22190da
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 4:06 am
From: "Comm"

"Xah Lee" <xah@xahlee.org> wrote in message
news:1141042435.416546.173660@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
can the word brunette ever be used on a black-haired girl?

Black haired people: raven haired. Very very blonde: tow haired.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHE FALSO MEDICO
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d81d441175421c54
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 10:48 pm
From: "PM"

CHE falso medico todos los datos e investigaciones hechas sobre el supuesto
medico argentino Che.

CHE GUEVARA ?MEDICO O IMPOSTOR?

ERNESTO GUEVARA: ¿MEDICO O IMPOSTOR? Por José Luis Fernández.

En el mes de Octubre se celebró un aniversario de la caída del notorio
argentino Ernesto Guevara, alias "Che", en Bolivia. Grandes homenajes en
Cuba
y otros paises. El Gobierno de Cuba ha elaborado una extensa linea de
productos con que explotar la fama de este personaje. Con dolares americanos
se pueden conseguir videos, CDs, casettes, libros, camisas, gorras y docenas
de artículos mas. Como si fuera un producto de una Disneylandia peculiar. En
Argentina, hasta el Presidente Menem ha ordenado la emisión de un sello de
correos para "coger un pedacito del pastel" el también. En Los Angeles, la
Universidad de California Los Angeles (UCLA) le rindio homenaje durante todo
el mes.
Pero, ¿Que fue Ernesto Guevara, realmente?.
Su existencia cobra fama después del triunfo de Fidel Castro. Era asmático y
no soltaba el puro de los labios. No conocia a Cuba ni la forma de vivir de
los cubanos y fue allá a hacer una "revolucion socialista". Sin ser
economista, su aventurismo lo llevo a ocupar la Presidencia del Banco
Nacional. Sin ser Técnico Industrial o Ingeniero, su osadía le hace tomar la
posición de Ministro de Industrias. Sin haber sido agricultor quiso
organizar
el Instituo Nacional de la Reforma Agraria en Cuba.
Lógicamente su ignorancia en estos campos lo hace fracasar en todos esas
posiciones con tal magnitud que la economia de Cuba quedo destruida de tal
manera que solo sobrevivió mientras recibió la ayuda soviética primero y la
del exilio después. Le dieron el titulo de "El guerrillero heroico" a pesar
de
solo tuvo fracasos en Africa y en Latinoamérica donde al final es capturado
y
fusilado. No era economista. No era ingeniero o técnico. No era estratega.
Era
argentino y sin embargo no se atrevio a hacer revolucion o politica en
Argentina. Incluso despues de ser famoso no se atrevio a ir a su pais de
origen ¿Por que?
Se decía que era medico. Sin embargo, mientras se aventuró en el Banco
Nacional y el Ministerio de Industrias, no se atrevió en el Ministerio de
Salud Publica, ni en ningún Hospital, campos donde se suponía tuviera
conocimientos y quizás experiencia. ¿Por que?
¿Seria posible que realmente tampoco fuera medico y no quería verse envuelto
en decisiones con otros médicos, que rápidamente descubrirían que era un
impostor?
Hemos tratado de hacer un recorrido de su vida de estudiante. Buscamos en
sus
biografias, la mayoría escrita por admiradores u ordenadas por el Partido
Comunista de Cuba. Por tal motivo no nos merecían crédito, por lo que fuimos
a
la fuente.
Toda vez que los biógrafos de Ernesto Guevara que mencionaban su doctorado
mencionaban la Universidad de Buenos Aires, se gestionaron datos en esa
área.
Recibimos copias fotostáticas (fáciles de falsificar) del recibo para el
examen de Ingreso en Octubre 12 de 1947, pero con fecha Mayo 26 de un año en
el que aparecen superpuestas las décadas 50 y 70. Una lista de
desaprobaciones
de Materias examinadas en los años 49, 51 y 52. Y lista de Asignaturas
aprobadas en 1948, 49, 50, 51, 52 y 53. Solicitud y recibo del Certificado
de
Medico de la Facultad de Ciencias Medicas de Buenos Aires con fechas 22 de
Mayo y 23 de
Junio de 1953 respectivamente. Aparece como Ingresado en Mayo 1948 (sin día)
y
egresado el 11 o 14 de Abril de 1953. Siendo diplomado el 12 de Junio de
1953.
Todo este material referente a Ernesto Guevara y su titulo de Medico.
Tratamos de que se localizara aunque fuese un medico graduado con el, o que
hubiera hecho el internado con el para tener opiniones directas sobre su
época
de estudiante y profesional.
Tita Infante, Jorge y Carlos Ferrer, los tres militantes comunistas o
activistas, "testimonian" haber sido compañeros de Facultad con el Ernesto
Guevara al igual que el Dr. Salvador Pisani, con el cual al parecer publico
un
proyecto durante sus dias de estudiante titulado "Sensibilización de cobayos
a
polenes por inyección de extracto de naranjos". Pero ninguno de los cuatro
los
dos Ferrer, Infante o el Profesor Pisani, mencionan que se haya graduado o
presentan pruebas de lo mismo.
Mas tarde informaron desde Buenos Aires que el Dr. Mariano Cantex, de
Rosario
había estudiado con el. Este Dr. Cantex, fue Presidente de la Asociación
Medica de Medicina Interna por los años 20. cuando Ernesto Guevara no había
nacido todavía.
Esta burda falsedad nos hace dudar de los supuestos documentos de la
Universidad de Buenos Aires. ¿ Fueron falsificados o alguien tomo los
examenes
por el? DOCUMENTOS ERNESTO GUEVARA
Se solicita entonces del Dr. Luis N. Ferreira, Decano de la Facultad de
Medicina en
Buenos Aires que nos verifique estos datos del graduado Ernesto Guevara. Su
respuesta fue la siguiente: "El Señor Ernesto Guevara creo que se recibió en
la Universidad Nacional de Córdoba, Córdoba, Argentina. Nosotros no tenemos
información acerca de este señor.
Les ruego comunicarse con la Universidad de Córdoba".
Se indago entonces en la Universidad de Córdoba, escribiendole al Rector.
Prof. Dr.
Eduardo Humberto Staricco, al Vice-Rector Prof. Dr. Hugo Oscar Juri, al
Secretario
General Ing. Ricardo Torassa, al Pro-Secretario General Dr. Hernan Faure, al
Secretario de Asuntos Económicos y Financieros Lic. Sergio Obeide y a la
Secretaria de Asuntos Académicos, Lic. Sofía Acuña. No se recibió respuesta
alguna.Decidimos acudir a colegas periodistas en Córdoba, Argentina.
Contactamos a Alberto Saint Bonnet del periódico LA PRENSA DEL NORTE, en
Jesús
Maria, Córdoba, que accedió gustoso a buscar en los archivos de la
Universidad
la documentación necesaria, así como alguien que recordara a Guevara, o
tuviera alguna foto de graduación, internado, etc.
Al poco tiempo recibimos la respuesta del periodista Albert Saint Bonnet:
"Lo
que en
apariencia se trataba de una simple colaboración, en la práctica se ha
tornado
en una complicada búsqueda de información, que al momento, no parece de
exitosa resolución.
Estamos investigando tu requerimiento y te tendremos al tanto de los
resultados
obtenidos, sin descuidar como limite, la fecha del próximo mes de Octubre".
O
sea, no encontraron nada del estudiante de medicina Ernesto Guevara en
Córdoba y sus
alrededores.
Esto nos situó de nuevo en la pregunta inicial. ¿Era medico o no? Analizamos
con mas cuidado sus distintas biografias, sobre todo en el periodo entre
1947
y 1953 en que se supone que estuviera estudiando la carrera de medicina en
Buenos Aires o en Córdoba. He aquí lo que encontramos:

1947.- Según el prestigioso escritor chileno Lautero Silva en su libro
"Latinoamérica al Rojo Vivo" Ernesto Guevara, un joven y desconocido
argentino, forma parte con Fidel Castro, Luis Fernández Juan, Juan Bosch,
Milroad Peric y Rafael L. del Pino de la fallida expedición de Cayo
Confites.
(Aquí encontramos una discrepancia entre Lautero Silva y el expedicionario
de
Cayo Confites Jorge Clark, no recordando este ultimo que entre los mil
doscientos hombres que formaban aquel grupo estuvieran Rafael del Pino o un
argentino de nombre Ernesto Guevara)

1948.- En la misma obra, el escritor menciona que Guevara participó en el
"Bogotazo", en Colombia, en el mes de Abril, al igual que varios de los
miembros de "LA LEGION DEL CARIBE" de la expedicion frustrada en Cayo
Confites. ("Latinoamérica Al Rojo Vivo". Lautero Silva)
Mas tarde, según el periodista peruano Mario Castro Arenas, en su obra "La
Historia no contada del Che Guevara", de Colombia pasa a Guatemala con ,
Hilda Gadea, con la que se había casado en Lima, Perú- Allí se reune con
militantes apristas que huían del Gobierno del general Manuel Odria.
VISTAZO - EL CHE GUEVARA

1951.- Trabaja como enfermero en un Buque de la Compañía Yacimientos
Petroleros desde Febrero hasta Junio regresando a Buenos Aires. (Biografía
por
Anderson)

1952.- Sale de Buenos Aires en Motocicleta con su amigo Alberto Granado el 4
de Enero, llegando a Chile el 14 de Febrero y de ahí al Perú donde entran el
24 de Marzo recorriendolo hasta el 21 de Junio. Desde Junio 23 hasta Julio
13
permanecen en Colombia y de ahí a Venezuela, llegando a Caracas el día 17 de
Julio, permaneciendo hasta el 26.
(Ernesto Guevara: "Diarios de Motocicleta - Un viaje alrededor de Sur
América",
actualizado por la Dra. Barbara Brodman.)
En este año, según el biógrafo Anderson, Ernesto Guevara escribe a su madre
una carta, en uno de cuyos párrafos expresa, refiriendose a Colombia: "De
todos los paises que hemos viajado por ellos, este es el que las garantías
individuales esta mas suprimidas......"

1953.- Triunfa el Movimiento Nacional Revolucionario en Bolivia y diversas
fuentes sitúan a Ernesto Guevara de visita en La Paz y mas tarde Guatemala.

Como en todos los personajes a los cuales se les quiere crear un mito, los
biógrafos tienen alguna que otra discrepancia. Por ejemplo en lo que
respecta
a Hilda Gadea. Unos dicen que se casaron en 1947 o 48 ("Se comentó en el
local
principal del Partido en Lima que la Compañera Hilda Gadea se había casado
con
un hippie argentino". Mario Castro Arenas, Lima.) Otros mencionan como la
boda
en 1953.

En 1960, en su trabajo sobre Medicina Revolucionaria, el propio Guevara
escribe: "Excepto Haití y Santo Domingo, he visitado de algún modo TODOS los
paises de América Latina...."

¿Viajo o Estudio? ¿Donde esta la verdad y donde la mentira? De acuerdo con
los
viajes y aventuras realizados durante esos años, y descritos por el mismo
Guevara, parece muy difícil a la vez cursar una carrera de medicina.

Pero continuando con su recorrido, el Biógrafo de Ernesto Guevara, Romero
Anton
Montalvan-Anderssen, nos da otro dato que contribuye a la duda de sus
conocimientos
médicos. Escribe Montalvan-Anderssen que en 1954, supuestamente un año
después
de graduado en la Universidad de Buenos Aires, consigue trabajo en
México...... como fotógrafo.
En esa época conoce al eminente cardiólogo Dr. Mario Salazar Mallen, de
ideas
socialistas, el cual le consigue trabajo como su ayudante en el Instituto
Nacional de Cardiologia de México. Después de 1959 Guevara invitaría al Dr.
Salazar Mallen a dar varias conferencias sobre Cardiologia en Cuba.
A mediados de 1955 comienza a preparar con Fidel Castro y los demás la
expedición en el yate "Granma" y el resto es una historia ya repetida.
En 1967, el capitán (Hoy general) del Ejercito Boliviano Gary Prado Salmón
tomo notas taquigráficas durante la detención de Ernesto Guevara en Bolivia
y
que luego ordenaría para la publicación de su libro "Como Capturé al CHE".
En
la pagina 270 narra lo siguiente: "En ese momento salió de la quebrada un
soldado sangrando. Era Valentín Choque. Tenía dos heridas, una en la parte
posterior del cuello y otra en la espalda. No eran graves.
Sánchez rasgó una camisa que estaba en la mochila del Che, para hacer unas
vendas.
-¿Quiere que lo cure, capitán?.- Preguntó de pronto el Che.
-¿Es usted medico acaso?
-No -contestó el detenido- Soy primero que todo revolucionario, pero
entiendo
de medicina. Ademas, en La Sierra aprendí hasta sacar muelas. ¿Atiendo al
soldado?-No, deje nomás.- Fue la respuesta.
En conclusión, no pudimos obtener ninguna prueba, ningún compañero de
estudios
o de internado, ninguna membresía como medico en ninguna asociación de
profesionales de la medicina, en fin, nada. Y horas antes de su muerte dijo
que en "La Sierra había APRENDIDO hasta sacar muelas".
¿Fue su doctorado en medicina real o fue tambien un mito mas de los muchos
creado alrededor de su persona? El lector tendrá que sacar sus propias
conclusiones.

Diario las Americas http://www.diariolasamericas.com
Edición del 17 de Octubre, 1997
"Como anteriormente murieron en
Africa y otros frentes donde había fracasado el argentino, que no era
médico, aunque posaba como tal; que no era patriota, y mucho menos un
reivindicador,"
Los Huesos del Che
Por Armando Pérez Roura , Pena compartida,Cuba/Nicaragua

Edición del 22 de Octubre, 1997
Diario las Americas
Criminales de guerra
Por Manolo Reyes , Criminales de guerra.

...Aparentemente cuando Guevara salió de la
Argentina, su tierra natal, para comenzar su carrera de terrorista
internacional, pasó a Bolivia, donde trató de formar las milicias
campesinas. El fracaso fue total, no sin antes darle muerte a opositores
y a aquellos que no obedecïan sus órdenes. Eran los inicios de la década
del cincuenta. De Bolivia fue expulsado y fue Guevara a carenar a
Guatemala que en aquel entonces estaba bajo la dirección comunista de
Jacobo Arbenz. Fuentes relacionadas a ese païs centroamericano
informaron que Guevara, convertido en matón a las órdenes de Arbenz,
asesinó a un sin número de guatemaltecos...

Este alumno mediocre, dicen que paso examenes por la mitad de la carrera en
unos pocos meses, cuando existian graves problemas en la Universidad.

Crealo o no, esta informacion debe ser publicada por el Libro de Records de
GuinessLAS DOS FIRMAS DEL CHE.

--
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/

--
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Afghan Man Sentenced to Death for Converting
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bd295e44b8e99935
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:08 pm
From: "ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com"

Seeker wrote:
> <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1142817577.136255.192420@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Seeker wrote:
> >> <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> >> > Seeker wrote:
> >> >> <visualseeplus@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> >> >> > Religion of Peace folks.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who allegedly converted from
> >> >> > Islam
> >> >> > to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be
> >> >> > sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Harami Hindu, you have such laws in India too where pain of death is
> >> >> imposed on anyone converting out of Hinduism.
> >> >
> >> > There is no such law.
> >>
> >> I distinctly remembering reading about such a law in Tamil Nadu.
> >
> > Death penalty for conversion? Such a law hasn't even been proposed in
> > India. For a person to convert himself out of Hinduism (or any other
> > religion) is not even a crime.
> >
> >> Has that law been repealed?
> >
> > If there was such a law in Muslim princely states, it has been repealed
> > after they became part of India. There has never been such a law in
> > non-Muslim states in India.
>
> These are Muslim princely states?

No. I don't notice any such law mentioned. Try searching yourself for
any mention of something like a death penalty.

> The legislative history relating to the issue of conversion in India
> underscores the point that the authorities concerned were never favourably
> disposed towards conversion. While British India had no anti-conversion
> laws, many Princely States enacted anti-conversion legislation: the Raigarh
> State Conversion Act 1936, the Patna Freedom of Religion Act of 1942, the
> Sarguja State Apostasy Act 1945 and the Udaipur State Anti-Conversion Act
> 1946. Similar laws were enacted in Bikaner, Jodhpur, Kalahandi and Kota and
> many more were specifically against conversion to Christianity. In the
> post-independence era, Parliament took up for consideration in 1954 the
> Indian Conversion (Regulation and Registration) Bill and later in 1960 the
> Backward Communities (Religious Protection) Bill, both of which had to be
> dropped for lack of support. The proposed Freedom of Religion Bill of 1979
> was opposed by the Minorities Commission due to the Bill's evident bias.
>
> However, in 1967-68, Orissa and Madhya Pradesh enacted local laws called the
> Orissa Freedom of Religion Act 1967 and the Madhya Pradesh Dharma
> Swatantraya Adhiniyam 1968. Along similar lines, the Arunachal Pradesh
> Freedom of Religion Act, 1978 was enacted to provide for prohibition of
> conversion from one religious faith to any other by use of force or
> inducement or by fraudulent means and for matters connected therewith. The
> latest addition to this was the Tamil Nadu Prohibition of Forcible
> Conversion of Religion Ordinance promulgated by the Governor on October 5,
> 2002 and subsequently adopted by the State Assembly. Each of these Acts
> provides definitions of `Government', `conversion', `indigenous faith',
> `force', `fraud', `inducement' (and in the case of Arunachal, that of
> `prescribed and religious faith'). These laws made forced conversion a
> cognisable offence under sections 295 A and 298 of the Indian Penal Code
> that stipulate that malice and deliberate intention to hurt the sentiments
> of others is a penal offence punishable by varying durations of imprisonment
> and fines.
>
> As early as 1967, it became evident that the concern was not just with
> forced conversion, but with conversion to any religion other than Hinduism
> and especially Christianity and Islam. In the Orissa and Madhya Pradesh
> Acts, the punishment was to be doubled if the offence had been committed in
> respect of a minor, a woman or a person belonging to the Scheduled Caste or
> Scheduled Tribe community. These may be seen as further reinforcing the
> several statutory penalties for ceasing to be a Hindu such as the 1955-56
> Hindu Law enactments namely Hindu Minority and Guardianship Act 1956
> (Section 6), Hindu Adoption and Maintenance Act 1956 (Sections 7, 8, 9, 11,
> 18-24), Hindu Marriage Act 1955 (Sections 13 (ii), 13 A) and the Hindu
> Succession Act (section 26). The picture is complete if we account for the
> fact that most of these laws are aimed to keep the low caste Hindus within
> the fold of Hinduism. And so while law prohibits conversion, `reconversion'
> of low caste Hindus is permissible. If a low caste Hindu who had converted
> to another faith or any of his descendants reconverts to Hinduism, he might
> get back his original caste (Kailash Sonkar (1984) 2 SCC 91; S. Raja Gopal
> AIR 1969 SC 101).

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 9:24 pm
From: "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101@dont.reply>

<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142827387.493171.274500@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Seeker wrote:
>> "Mohd Kaffir" <fragrance28_693@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142816666.653454.229280@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Seeker wrote:
>> >> <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1142810312.667284.210060@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > Seeker wrote:
>> >> >> <visualseeplus@yahoo.com> wrote ...
>> >> >> > Religion of Peace folks.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who allegedly converted from
>> >> >> > Islam
>> >> >> > to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be
>> >> >> > sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Harami Hindu, you have such laws in India too where pain of death
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> imposed
>> >> >> on anyone converting out of Hinduism.
>> >> >
>> >> > There is no such law.
>> >>
>> >> I distinctly remembering reading about such a law in Tamil Nadu. Has
>> >> that
>> >> law been repealed?
>> >
>> > Really? Are you which universe you are talking about?
>>
>> On 5 October 2002, the state government of Tamil Nadu, India, issued an
>> ordinance that effectively (when interpreted according to Hindutva
>> ideology)
>> outlawed religious conversion.
>> http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/10497.htm
>
> In the Tamilnadu law (repealed in 2004), a proselytizer was required to
> inform officials of the local district about the conversion; he did not
> require any permission to perform conversion ceremonies. It was up to
> officials to take him to court with a charge of converting by force*,
> allurement* or fraud* and it was upto a judge (not Hindutva
> ideologists) to determine whether the charge had merit.

The judges are Hindutaa ideologues. The political climate in Tamil Nadu is
Hidutva.

>
> Now, why did you claim that it provided for a death penalty for
> apostates? It provided for no penalty for a person who converted

Because that's what I remembered it did. So pain of death for a convert is a
defact law in Tamil Nadu.

> himself, there was a penalty only for converting other people (and only
> if converted by force, allurement or fraud), and the penalty was
> certainly not death; it was (a maximum of) a fine and imprisonment.

Why is this even needed. If someone converts a Hindu by fraud, you can
convert that person back to Hinduism by fraud.

>
> * Definitions: (a) "allurement" means offer of any temptation in the
> form of - (i) - any gift or gratification, either in cash or kind; (ii)
> - grant of any material benefit, either monetary or otherwise. (b)
> "convert" means to make one person to renounce one religion and adopt
> another religion; (c) "force" includes a show of force or threat of
> injury of any kind including threat of divine displeasure or social
> ex-communication; (d) "fraudulent means" includes misrepresentation or
> any other fraudulent contrivance.
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:26 pm
From: "ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com"

Seeker wrote:
> "Mohd Kaffir" <fragrance28_693@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1142822230.621024.39910@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Seeker wrote:
> >> <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1142817577.136255.192420@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Seeker wrote:
> >> >> <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> >> >> > Seeker wrote:
> >> >> >> <visualseeplus@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> >> >> >> > Religion of Peace folks.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who allegedly converted from
> >> >> >> > Islam
> >> >> >> > to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be
> >> >> >> > sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Harami Hindu, you have such laws in India too where pain of death
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> imposed on anyone converting out of Hinduism.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There is no such law.
> >> >>
> >> >> I distinctly remembering reading about such a law in Tamil Nadu.
> >> >
> >> > Death penalty for conversion? Such a law hasn't even been proposed in
> >> > India. For a person to convert himself out of Hinduism (or any other
> >> > religion) is not even a crime.
> >> >
> >> >> Has that law been repealed?
> >> >
> >> > If there was such a law in Muslim princely states, it has been repealed
> >> > after they became part of India. There has never been such a law in
> >> > non-Muslim states in India.
> >>
> >> These are Muslim princely states?
> >>
> >> The legislative history relating to the issue of conversion in India
> >> underscores the point that the authorities concerned were never
> >> favourably
> >> disposed towards conversion. While British India had no anti-conversion
> >> laws, many Princely States enacted anti-conversion legislation:
> >
> > Please find the word "death penalty" in the above.
>
> Not talking about death penalty.

Weasel! You wrote "... pain of death is imposed on anyone converting
out of Hinduism." Scroll up and read what you wrote.

> I am answering Ranjit's claim that only
> Muslim princely states outlawed conversion.

I didn't write anything about outlawing of conversion; I referred only
to death penalties for conversion. Be that as it may, the bills in the
avove mentioned Princely states addressed only proselytization; they
didn't address conversion at all. Try finding a law under which it was
illegal for someone to convert himself. (Read the subject title
carefully; it is for converting himself that the Afghan is in danger of
being sentenced to death).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PSA: Abortion methods
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d54a793aeabcdb61
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:11 pm
From: "J Young"

"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:441deb1a$0$22963$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
> J Young wrote:
> >
> > Stand outside any abortion mill where pro-life advocates are attempting
to
> > educate these young 'mothers', read the material that they are
providing,
> > and then tell me if you think "all the facts" are being provided to
these
> > women.
> >
> >
>
> I believe that doctors have all the facts and that protesters have
> one-sided agendas.
>
>

The doctors having all the information is not the issue, it's the woman who
needs it. What does a doctor know about adoption or other child services? An
abortionist surely has no motivation to provide women with sonograms or
other images. Be honest, to you loons 'pro-choice' means 'pro-abortion'.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 4:27 am
From: "David W. Barnes"

In article <T4qdnSGCYLnktoPZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>, J Young
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:

> "DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
> news:441deb1a$0$22963$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
> > J Young wrote:
> > >
> > > Stand outside any abortion mill where pro-life advocates are attempting
> to
> > > educate these young 'mothers', read the material that they are
> providing,
> > > and then tell me if you think "all the facts" are being provided to
> these
> > > women.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I believe that doctors have all the facts and that protesters have
> > one-sided agendas.
> >
> >
>
> The doctors having all the information is not the issue, it's the woman who
> needs it. What does a doctor know about adoption or other child services? An
> abortionist surely has no motivation to provide women with sonograms or
> other images. Be honest, to you loons 'pro-choice' means 'pro-abortion'.

Another "pro-life" piece of shit who wants to force women to read his
propaganda. Too bad abortion wasn't legal when you were born. How
does it feel to wonder if your parents would have kept you if it hadn't
been for their "faith?"

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 5:05 am
From: rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer)

J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
>"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
>> J Young wrote:
>> >
>> > Stand outside any abortion mill where pro-life advocates are attempting
>to
>> > educate these young 'mothers', read the material that they are
>providing,
>> > and then tell me if you think "all the facts" are being provided to
>these
>> > women.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I believe that doctors have all the facts and that protesters have
>> one-sided agendas.
>>
>>
>
>The doctors having all the information is not the issue, it's the woman who
>needs it.

Information like the fact that childbirth is ten times as likely to
kill a woman as is an abortion?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Muslim rape works?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bf8d2f3c382143f4
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 4:12 am
From: flaviaR@verizon.net

This sort of behavior has the potential to lead to "All Islamic men
are targets for shooting because their culture & beliefs make them
rapists." And this is probably the only thing that will make this
sort of behavior go away.

Susan

On 19-Mar-2006, "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote:

> MUSLIM RAPE GANGS VS. WESTERN FEMALES
> By J. Grant Swank Jr. (03/19/2006)
>
> Western females are not considered moral. Because they don't garb
> themselves
> from head to toe, they are asking for rape. And they get it-from Muslim
> males.
>
> There are Muslim male gangs now who are raping Western females as I type.
> These women are called "whores" by the gang members. Therefore, they
> deserve
> what they get.
>
> Female Muslims who cover themselves are cursed with ten curses upon
> conception, according to Islamic legalists. One curse is lifted if the
> female marries. A curse is defined as exposing one's genitals in public.
> Therefore, Muslim females are considered worse than dung. If they get out
> of
> line, a Muslim male can beat or kill them.
>
> Muslim females who disgrace the clan in any way can be slain via bullet in
> head or neck slit by Muslim male clan members. Saddam Hussein's soccer
> stadiums were used more for murdering Muslim females than athletics. Right
> now some Muslim woman is being caned because her ankles are showing or is
> being slaughtered for dishonoring her clan; this is called "honor
> killing."
>
> But Western females appear to be far worse than even Muslim females.
> Western
> females are just waiting to be molested, raped and then tossed aside,
> according to Sharon Lapkin of FrontPageMagazine.com
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=20646
>
> Is there any question as to the "reason" these Muslim males rape Western
> women? No. They quickly inform the non-Muslim why.
>
> From 1998 until 2002, Muslim male gangs taunted Australian girls,
> particularly in Sydney. The females were labeled "sluts" and "Aussie
> pigs,"
> therefore, they were bait for rape.
>
> "In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a visiting
> Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no,
> because
> they were not wearing a headscarf.
>
> "And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz
> Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape
> victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who wore
> skimpy
> clothing, invited men to rape them."
>
> As more and more Muslims move into Western nations, this gang rape will
> increase because it is part of the Muslim male killing cult, otherwise
> known
> as their "religion." It is all goes back to their cultic beliefs woven
> into
> their irrational, immoral folklore that has grown up with them.
>
> When these street Muslim males get the academic support from professors,
> then all the more they consider themselves on a legitimate,
> Allah-ordained,
> Koran-sanctioned mission. This is the part of Islam world rule. This is to
> be. This is part of the overall program.
>
> "A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid
> Mehdi created uproar when - like his peer in Australia - he stated that
> women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.
>
> "And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported
> that
> visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape
> victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were
> raped. He added, 'For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must
> have
> shown good conduct.'"
>
> Consequently, one can follow the "reasoning" to its logical conclusion
> which
> is that if the street kids can get by with it, the supposed sophisticated,
> educated Muslim males can, also.
>
> Therefore, for all this talk among Muslims about the West being decadent,
> the Muslim settlements themselves are rife with lust and mistreatment of
> females. It goes back to females cursed from conception. It would have
> been
> better for them if they had never been born. Earthly existence is
> imprisonment. It is hell.
>
> This is what Islamic outspoken Ghada Jamshir repeats over and over again.
> She, a Muslim, speaks worldwide, seeking to change Islam regarding
> females.
> She proclaims that Muslim females are imprisoned for life; therefore, if
> Muslims put her in jail, it will be no harsher fate that what Muslim
> females
> endure now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ANTI ZIONAZI, IRAQI JEW SPEAKS
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6859532e6208b222
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:20 pm
From: flaviaR@verizon.net

On 19-Mar-2006, "Emanuel Appel" <irgun43@mindspring.com> wrote:

> "Crusader" <white@xyz.com> wrote in message
> news:WXfTf.966$H71.221@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > The only reason "jews" are hated is because of Zionism,
>
> The destruction of the Jews happened before Zionism, before there was a
> State of Israel.
>
> Your hatred is not based on a poltiical platform but simply a desire to
> destroy us based originally on religious reasons and later on racist
> reasons

All of his posts follow along this lying line - starting with his refusal to
even
capitalize the propoer noun. It's one of their more immature tricks.

Susan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cost of Iraq war could surpass $1 trillion
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7fc4054fa02114e3
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:24 pm
From: Defendario

Call me Ishmael wrote:

> "Islam Will Replace Collapsing Amerikan Empire"
> <islam_to_replace_amerikan_empire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:UwcTf.58$ji6.6249@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>>Cost of Iraq war could surpass $1 trillion
>>
>>Estimates vary, but all agree price is far higher than initially expected
>>
>
>
> There must have been a cheaper way to get rid of Saddam. I still believe
> that was a good cause.
>

Considering that the war has cost about $10 million (US) per Iraqi so
far, I can't imagine that a more expensive solution could have been
found. Of course, if you own Halliburton/KBR stock, you are laughing
all the way to the bank.

>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 1/2 WHAT I HEARD ABOUT IRAQ IN 2005 by Eliot Weinberger
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fd5f5c6a8038ce3e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 4:25 am
From: usenet@mantra.com9nf and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Part 1 of 2 parts

WHAT I HEARD ABOUT IRAQ IN 2005 by Eliot Weinberger

Forwarded message from moderator@portside.org
http://www.portside.org

[ Subject: What I heard about Iraq in 2005
[ From: moderator@portside.org
[ Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005

What I heard about Iraq in 2005

By Eliot Weinberger
LRB (London Review of Books)
Vol. 28 No. 1
Dated 5 January 2006
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n01/wein01_.html

In 2005 I heard that Coalition forces were camped in the
ruins of Babylon. I heard that bulldozers had dug
trenches through the site and cleared areas for
helicopter landing pads and parking lots, that thousands
of sandbags had been filled with dirt and archaeological
fragments, that a 2600-year-old brick pavement had been
crushed by tanks, and that the moulded bricks of dragons
had been gouged out from the Ishtar Gate by soldiers
collecting souvenirs. I heard that the ruins of the
Sumerian cities of Umma, Umm al-Akareb, Larsa and Tello
were completely destroyed and were now landscapes of
craters.

I heard that the US was planning an embassy in Baghdad
that would cost $1.5 billion, as expensive as the Freedom
Tower at Ground Zero, the proposed tallest building in
the world.

I saw a headline in the Los Angeles Times that read:
'After Levelling City, US Tries to Build Trust.'

I heard that military personnel were now carrying
'talking point' cards with phrases such as: 'We are a
values-based, people-focused team that strives to uphold
the dignity and respect of all.'

I heard that 47 per cent of Americans believed that
Saddam Hussein helped plan 9/11 and 44 per cent believed
that the hijackers were Iraqi; 61 per cent thought that
Saddam had been a serious threat to the US and 76 per
cent said the Iraqis were now better off.

I heard that Iraq was now ranked with Haiti and Senegal
as one of the poorest nations on earth. I heard the
United Nations Human Rights Commission report that acute
malnutrition among Iraqi children had doubled since the
war began. I heard that only 5 per cent of the money
Congress had allocated for reconstruction had actually
been spent. I heard that in Fallujah people were living
in tents pitched on the ruins of their houses.

I heard that this year's budget included $105 billion for
the War on Terror, which would bring the total to $300
billion. I heard that Halliburton was estimating that its
bill for providing services to US troops in Iraq would
exceed $10 billion. I heard that the family of an
American soldier killed in Iraq receives $12,000.

I heard that the White House had deleted the chapter on
Iraq from the annual Economic Report of the President, on
the grounds that it did not conform with an otherwise
cheerful tone.

Within a week in January I heard Condoleezza Rice say
there were 120,000 Iraqi troops trained to take over the
security of the country; I heard Senator Joseph Biden,
Democrat from Delaware, say that the number was closer to
4000; I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'The fact of the
matter is that there are 130,200 who have been trained
and equipped. That's a fact. The idea that that number's
wrong is just not correct. The number is right.'

I heard him explain the discrepancy: 'Now, are some
getting killed every day? Sure. Are some retiring at
various times or injured? Yes, they're gone.' I
remembered that a year before he had said the number was
210,000. I heard the Pentagon announce it would no longer
release Iraqi troop figures.

I heard that 50,000 US soldiers in Iraq did not have body
armour, because the army's equipment manager had placed
it at the same priority level as socks. I heard that
soldiers were buying their own flak jackets with steel
'trauma' plates, Camelbak water pouches, ballistic
goggles, knee and elbow pads, drop pouches to hold
ammunition magazines, and load-bearing vests. I heard
they were rigging their vehicles with pieces of scrap
metal as protection against roadside bombs, since the
production of armoured Humvees had fallen more than a
year behind schedule and the few available armoured
vehicles were mainly reserved for officers and visiting
dignitaries.

I heard that the private security firm Custer Battles had
been paid $15 million to provide security for civilian
flights at Baghdad airport at a time when no planes were
flying. I heard that US forces were still unable to
secure the two-mile highway from the airport to the Green
Zone.

I heard that the President's uncle, Bucky Bush, had made
half a million dollars cashing in his stock options in
Engineered Support Systems Inc, a defence contractor that
had received $100 million for work in Iraq. Bucky Bush is
on the board of directors. I heard Dan Kreher, vice-
president of investor relations for ESSI, say: 'The fact
his nephew is in the White House has absolutely nothing
to do with Mr Bush being on our board or with our stock
having gone up 1000 per cent in the past five years.'

I heard that a Pentagon audit of only some of the
Halliburton contracts had found $212 million in
'questionable costs'. I heard that eight other government
audits of Halliburton were marked 'classified' and not
released to the public.

I heard that African-Americans normally form 23 per cent
of active-duty troops, but that recruitment of African-
Americans had fallen by 41 per cent since 2000. I heard
that a US Military Image Study prepared for the army had
recommended that, 'for the army to achieve its mission
goals with Future Force Soldiers, it must overhaul its
image as well as its product offering.'

I heard that the military was developing robot soldiers.
I heard Gordon Johnson of the Joint Forces Command at the
Pentagon say: 'They don't get hungry. They're not afraid.
They don't forget their orders. They don't care if the
guy next to them has just been shot.' I heard him say: 'I
have been asked what happens if the robot destroys a
school bus rather than a tank parked nearby. The lawyers
tell me there are no prohibitions against robots making
life-or-death decisions. We will not entrust a robot with
that decision until we are confident they can make it.'

In March, on the second anniversary of the invasion, I
heard that 1511 US soldiers had been killed and
approximately 11,000 wounded. There was no way of knowing
exactly how many Iraqis had died.

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'Well, if you have a country
of 25 million people and you have x thousands of
criminals, terrorists, Baathists, former regime elements
who want to blow up things and make bombs and kill
people, they can still do that. That happens in most
major cities in the world, most countries in the world,
that people get killed and there's violence.'

I heard that, along with banning photographs of the
caskets of American soldiers, the administration was
actively preventing photographs being taken of the
wounded, who were flown in from Iraq late at night,
transferred to military hospitals in unmarked vans, and
unloaded at back entrances.

I heard about despair. I heard General John Abizaid,
commander of US Central Command, say of the insurgents:
'I don't think that they're growing. I think that they're
desperate.'

I heard about hope. I heard General Richard Myers,
chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, say: 'I came away
more positive than I've ever been. I think we're getting
some momentum built up.'

I heard about happiness. I heard Lieutenant General James
Mattis say that 'it's a lot of fun to fight' in Iraq. I
heard him say: 'You know, it's a hell of a hoot. I like
brawling.'

I heard that Donald Rumsfeld had created his own
intelligence agency, the Strategic Support Branch,
'designed to operate without detection and under the
defense secretary's direct control', without the
oversight laws that apply to the CIA, and that it was
employing 'notorious figures' whose 'links to the US
government would be embarrassing if disclosed'. I heard
about the practice of 'extraordinary rendition', by which
suspected terrorists are kidnapped and flown to countries
known to torture prisoners, or to secret US prisons in
Thailand, Afghanistan, Poland and Romania.

I heard that there were 3200 prisoners in Abu Ghraib, 700
more than its capacity. I heard Major General William
Brandenburg, who oversees US military detention
operations in Iraq, say: 'We've got a normal capacity and
a surge capacity. We're operating at surge capacity.' A
year before, I had heard the President promise 'to
demolish the Abu Ghraib prison, as a fitting symbol of
Iraq's new beginning'. I heard that outside the prison
there is a sign that reads: 'No Parking. Detainee Drop
Off Zone.'

I heard that some American soldiers had made a heavy
metal music video called 'Ramadi Madness', with sections
entitled 'Those Crafty Little Bastards' and 'Another Day,
Another Mission, Another Scumbag'. In one scene, a
soldier kicks the face of an Iraqi who is bound and lying
on the ground, dying. In another, a soldier moves the arm
of a man who has just been shot dead, to make it appear
that he is waving. I heard a Pentagon spokesman say:
'Clearly, the soldiers probably exercised poor judgment.'

I heard that the army released a 1200-page report
detailing the torture of Iraqi prisoners at a single
military intelligence base during a few months in 2003.
In response to the report, I heard Lieutenant Colonel
Jeremy Martin say: 'The army's a learning organisation.
If we have some shortfalls, we try to correct them. We've
learned how to do that process now.'

I heard a US soldier talk about his photographs of the 12
prisoners he had shot with a machine-gun: 'I shot this
guy in the face. See, his head is split open. I shot this
guy in the groin. He took three days to bleed to death.'
I heard him say he was a devout Christian: 'Well, I knelt
down. I said a prayer, stood up, and gunned them all
down.'

In April I heard General Richard Myers say: 'I think
we're winning. OK? I think we're definitely winning. I
think we've been winning for some time.'

I heard Major General William Webster, commander of the
3rd Infantry Division, say: 'We think the insurgency is
weakening over time. Some of these attacks appear to be
very spectacular and well co-ordinated, but, in fact, are
not.'

I heard Lieutenant General James Conroy of the marines
say that American troop withdrawals would soon begin,
because 'Iraqis are starting to take care of their own
situation.' I heard Rear Admiral William Sullivan report
to Congress that there were 145,000 'combat-capable'
Iraqi forces. I heard Sabah Hadum, a spokesman for the
Iraqi Ministry of the Interior, say: 'We are paying about
135,000, but that does not necessarily mean that 135,000
are actually working.' I heard that as many as 50,000 may
be 'ghost soldiers' -- invented names whose pay is
collected by officers or bureaucrats.

I heard Staff Sergeant Craig Patrick, who was training
Iraqi troops, say: 'It's all about perception, to
convince the American public that everything is going as
planned and we're right on schedule to be out of here. I
mean, they can bullshit the American people, but they
can't bullshit us.'

As many countries pulled their small numbers of troops
out of Iraq, I heard the State Department announce it
would no longer use the phrase 'Coalition of the
Willing'.

I heard that of the 40 water and sewage systems in Iraq,
'not one is being operated properly.' I heard that of the
19 power plants that had been rebuilt by the US, none
works correctly. I heard a US official blame this on the
'indifferent work ethic' of Iraqis.

I read, in the New York Times, that thanks to the
'sustained momentum' of the 'military operation', the
'administration's goal of turning Iraq over to a
permanent, elected Iraqi government' was 'within striking
distance'. I heard General Richard Myers say: 'We're on
track.' And I heard Major General Adnan Thabit say: 'We
are gaining more victories because people are now co-
operating more with us.'

I heard General John Abizaid predict that Iraqi security
forces would be leading the fight against the insurgents
in most of the country by the end of 2005. I heard
General George Casey, commander of the Multinational
Forces in Iraq, say: 'We should be able to take some
fairly substantial reductions in the size of our forces.'

I heard that the insurgents had been driven out of the
cities and into the desert and that they were having
trouble finding new recruits. I heard Lieutenant General
Raymond Odierno say: 'They're slowly losing.'

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'We don't have an exit
strategy, we have a victory strategy.'

A few weeks later, I heard Lawrence di Rita, a Pentagon
spokesman, admit that 'there's been an uptick' in
violence. I heard Pentagon officials dismiss this as
'desperate attacks by desperate individuals', but I heard
General Richard Myers now say about the insurgents: 'I
think their capacity stays about the same. And where they
are right now is where they were almost a year ago.'

I heard that a report by the CIA National Intelligence
Council had stated that 'Iraq has now replaced
Afghanistan as the training ground for the next
generation of "professionalised" terrorists,' providing
'a recruitment ground and the opportunity for enhancing
technical skills'. I heard that it said that Iraq was a
more effective training ground than Afghanistan, because
'the urban nature of the war in Iraq was helping
combatants learn how to carry out assassinations,
kidnappings, car bombings and other kinds of attacks that
were never a staple of the fighting in Afghanistan during
the anti-Soviet campaigns of the 1980s.'

I heard that the State Department refused to release its
annual report on terrorism, which would have shown that
the number of 'significant' attacks outside Iraq had
grown from 175 in 2003 to 655 in 2004. I heard Karen
Aguilar, acting co-ordinator for counterterrorism at the
State Department, explain that 'statistics are not
relevant' to 'trends in global terrorism'.

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'Goodness knows, it doesn't
take a genius to blow up a building.'

I heard that in the month of April there were 67 suicide
bombings. I heard Colonel Pat Lang, former chief of
Mideast operations at the Defense Intelligence Agency,
say: 'It's just political rhetoric to say we are not in a
civil war. We've been in a civil war for a long time.'

I heard that 1600 US soldiers were dead. I heard that
every week more than 200 Iraqis were dying in the suicide
bombings.

I heard Condoleezza Rice, on a surprise visit to Iraq,
say: 'We are so grateful that there are Americans willing
to sacrifice so the Middle East will be whole and free
and democratic and at peace.' On that same day, the
bodies of 34 recently killed men were found in a mass
grave; a high official in the Ministry of Industry was
shot dead; a leading Shia cleric was shot dead; and the
governor of Diyala province survived a suicide bombing,
though four others in his entourage did not and 37 nearby
were wounded.

I heard Donald Rumsfeld, asked whether we were winning or
losing the war in Iraq, reply: 'Winning or losing is not
the issue for "we", in my view, in the traditional,
conventional context of using the words "winning" and
"losing" in a war.'

I heard a truck driver named Muhammad say, 'With my own
eyes I've seen the Americans, when their patrol was hit
by a roadside bomb, open fire on all the civilian cars
around them,' and another driver, from Fallujah, say: 'If
Bush is a real man, he should walk down the street
alone!'

I heard that the Iraqi president, Jalal Talabani, has
3000 Kurdish peshmerga soldiers stationed around his
house.

I heard the President proclaim a 'critical victory in the
War on Terror' with the capture of Abu Faraj al-Libbi,
whom the President said was a 'top general' and the
number three man in al-Qaida. I heard him say: 'His
arrest removes a dangerous enemy who was a direct threat
to America and for those who love freedom.' A few days
later, I heard that the man had probably been confused
with someone else with a vaguely similar name. I heard
that a former associate of Osama bin Laden in London had
laughed and said: 'What I remember of him is that he used
to make the coffee and do the photocopying.' I never
heard this reported in the American press.

At the dedication of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential
Library and Museum, I heard the President compare his War
on Terror with Lincoln's war against slavery.

I heard the President say that Iraqi forces now outnumber
their American counterparts.

In May I heard that there were three suicide bombings
every day.

I heard a journalist ask the President: 'Do you think
that the insurgency is getting harder now to defeat
militarily?' And I heard the President reply: 'No, I
don't think so. I think they're being defeated. And
that's why they continue to fight.'

I heard a human rights worker say: 'In Baghdad today,
four clerics (three Sunni and one Shia) were
assassinated. The bodies of two other Sunni clerics who
had been abducted last week were found. A suicide car
bomber detonated his vehicle in the Abu Cher market
killing nine Iraqi National Guard troops and injuring 28
civilians. Two engineering students were killed when a
bomb (or rocket) struck their classroom at a local
school. The dean of a high school in the Shaab
neighborhood was assassinated. One judge, two officials
from the Ministry of Defence and one official
investigating corruption in the previous interim
government were assassinated. In all, 31 dead, 42 injured
and 17 abducted. Rumours abound in Baghdad about who is
responsible for all the attacks but no one has claimed
responsibility. And yet compared to some days in recent
weeks here in Baghdad the number of dead and injured was
fewer. So comparatively speaking it was a fairly quiet
day here in Baghdad.'

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'We don't do body counts.'
But then I heard the Pentagon releasing body counts. It
said 1600 insurgents had been killed last year in
Fallujah, but then I heard that the marines had
discovered 'few bodies' after the city was captured, and
months later a 'martyrs' cemetery' was found to contain
only 79 graves. I heard that the army had completely
destroyed a 'guerrilla training camp' near Lake Tharthar,
killing all 85 insurgents, and I heard the television
news report that this was 'the single biggest one-day
death toll for militants in months, and the latest in a
series of blows to the insurgency'. But then I heard that
some European journalists visited the camp the next day
and the insurgents were still there. Then I heard US
officials claim that the insurgents must have dragged
away their own dead. But then I heard a reporter ask how
all 85 dead insurgents could have dragged themselves
away. And I heard Major Richard Goldenberg reply: 'We
could spend years going back and forth on body counts.
The important thing is the effect this has on the
organised insurgency.'

I heard about despair. I heard Colonel Joseph DiSalvo,
commander of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, say: 'What
we're seeing is the terrorists are in desperation.' I
heard him say: 'By the end of the summer, the terrorists
will be captured, dead or, in the least, severely
disrupted.'

I heard Dick Cheney say: 'The level of activity that we
see today, from a military standpoint, I think, will
clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if
you will, of the insurgency.'

I heard Porter J. Goss, director of the CIA, say that the
insurgents were 'not quite in the last throes, but I
think they are very close to it.'

I heard Dick Cheney later explain: 'If you look at what
the dictionary says about throes, it can still be a
violent period. When you look back at World War Two, the
toughest battle, both in Europe and in the Pacific,
occurred just a few months before the end. And I see this
as a similar situation, where they're going to go all
out.'

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'Last throes could be a
violent last throe, or a placid and calm last throe. Look
it up in the dictionary.'

I heard Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican from Nebraska,
say: 'Things aren't getting better; they're getting
worse. The White House is completely disconnected from
reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go
along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq.'

I heard Lieutenant Colonel Frederick Wellman say of the
insurgents: 'We can't kill them all. When I kill one, I
create three.'

I heard that Congressman Walter Jones, Republican from
North Carolina and the man who renamed French fries
'freedom fries', was now calling for the withdrawal of US
troops. I heard him say: 'The American people are getting
to a point here: how much more can we take?' I heard
Congressman Mike Pence, Republican from Indiana, explain
why he is opposed to a timetable for withdrawal: 'I never
tell my kids when my patience is going to run out,
because they'll usually try it.'

I heard Condoleezza Rice speak about a 'generational
commitment' in Iraq.

I heard the President say: 'We have put the enemy on the
run, and now they spend their days avoiding capture,
because they know America's armed services are on their
trail.'

I heard him tell the American people: 'As we work to
deliver opportunity at home, we're also keeping you safe
from threats from abroad. We went to war because we were
attacked, and we are at war today because there are still
people out there who want to harm our country and hurt
our citizens. Our troops are fighting these terrorists in
Iraq so you will not have to face them here at home.'

I heard the President say: 'See, in my line of work you
got to keep repeating things over and over and over again
for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the
propaganda.'

I heard that US troops had killed the number two man in
al-Qaida in Iraq. I heard that US troops had killed
another man who was the number two in al-Qaida in Iraq. I
heard that US troops had killed yet another man who was
the number two in al-Qaida in Iraq.

I heard that in Baghdad 92 per cent of the people did not
have stable electricity, 33 per cent did not have safe
drinking water, and 25 per cent of children under the age
of five were suffering from malnutrition. I heard that
there were two or three car bombings a day, on some days
killing a hundred people and wounding many hundreds more.

I heard General William Webster say: 'Certainly saying
anything about "breaking the back" or "about to reach the
end of the line" or those kinds of things do not apply to
the insurgency at this point.'

I heard a 'high-ranking army officer' say: 'There's
simply not enough forces here. There are not enough to do
anything right; everybody's got their finger in the
dyke.' I heard that the soldiers of Marine Company E had
set up cardboard dummies of themselves to make it appear
that they had more men in battle.

I heard the President say: 'I'd say I spend most of my
time worrying about right now people losing their life in
Iraq. Both Americans and Iraqis. I worry about my girls.
I used to worry about my wife, until she hit an 85 per
cent popularity figure. Now she's worried about me. You
know, I don't worry all that much, other than what I just
described to you. I attribute that to --I've got peace of
mind. A lot of it has to do with my particular faith, and
a lot of that has to do with the fact that a lot of
people pray for me and Laura. I'm sleeping pretty good.
Seriously. I get asked that. There's times when I hadn't
been. I've got peace of mind.'

In 2005 I heard about 2001. I heard that on 21 September
2001, the PDB (President's Daily Brief), prepared by the
CIA, reported that there was no evidence that Saddam
Hussein was connected to the September 11 attacks.

I heard Condoleezza Rice say: 'The fact of the matter is
that when we were attacked on September 11, we had a
choice to make. We could decide that the proximate cause
was al-Qaida and the people who flew those planes into
buildings and, therefore, we would go after al-Qaida. Or
we could take a bolder approach.'

I heard Karl Rove say: 'Conservatives saw the savagery of
9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war. Liberals saw
the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare
indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our
attackers. Conservatives saw what happened to us on 9/11
and said we will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what
happened to us and said we must understand our enemies.'

In 2005 I heard about 2002. I heard that on 23 July 2002,
eight months before the invasion, Sir Richard Dearlove,
the head of MI6, reported in a secret memo to Tony Blair
that he was told in Washington that the US was going to
'remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the
conjunction of terrorism and WMD'. However, because 'the
case was thin, Saddam was not threatening his neighbours,
and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North
Korea or Iran . . . the intelligence and facts were being
fixed around the policy.'

I heard that this 'Downing Street Memo' was a scandal in
the British press, but I didn't hear it mentioned on
American network television for two months. During those
two months, ABC news had 121 stories on Michael Jackson
and 42 stories on Natalee Holloway, a high-school student
who disappeared from a bar while on holiday in Aruba. CBS
news had 235 stories about Michael Jackson and 70 about
Natalee Holloway.

I heard that in the second half of 2002, the US air force
and the RAF dropped twice as many bombs on Iraq as they
had done in all of 2001. I heard that the objective was
to provoke Saddam into giving the allies an excuse for
war.

I heard that the primary source of information about
Saddam's mobile biological weapons labs and germ warfare
capability, used by Colin Powell in his presentation at
the United Nations and in the President's 2003 State of
the Union address, was an Iraqi defector held by German
intelligence. The Germans had repeatedly told the
Americans that none of the information supplied by this
defector, an advanced alcoholic, was reliable. He had
been given the code-name Curveball.

I heard that the primary source of information about the
tons of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons buried
under Saddam's private villas and under Saddam Hussein
Hospital in Baghdad and throughout Iraq was a Kurdish
exile called Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri. He was
sponsored by the Rendon Group, a Washington public
relations firm that had been paid hundreds of millions of
dollars by the Pentagon to promote the war. (Rendon,
among other things, had organised a group of Iraqi exiles
in London, called them the Iraqi National Congress, and
installed Ahmad Chalabi as their leader.) I heard that
after al-Haideri failed a lie-detector test, administered
by the CIA in Thailand, his stories were nevertheless
leaked to journalists, most prominently Judith Miller of
the New York Times, which published them on the front
page.

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'Well, you never know what's
going to happen. I presented the President a list of
about fifteen things that could go terribly, terribly
wrong before the war started. And the fact that the
oilfields could have been set aflame like they were in
Kuwait, the fact that we could have had mass refugees and
dislocations and it didn't happen. The bridges could have
been blown up. There could have been a fortress Baghdad
with a moat around it with oil in it and people fighting
to the death. So a great many of the bad things that
could have happened did not happen.' I heard a journalist
ask him: 'Was a robust insurgency on your list that you
gave the President?' And I heard Rumsfeld reply: 'I don't
remember whether that was on there.'

In 2005 I heard about 2003. I heard a US marine, who was
a witness to the event, say that the story of the capture
of Saddam Hussein was a fiction. Saddam had been caught
the day before in a small house, and then placed in an
abandoned well, which was invented as the 'spider hole'
where he was hiding. I never heard about this marine
again.

In 2005 I heard about 2004. I heard that, during the
attack on Fallujah, the President had suggested to Tony
Blair that the headquarters of the al-Jazeera network in
Qatar should be bombed. I heard that Blair persuaded him
that it wasn't such a good idea.

Because it was difficult for the military to attract new
recruits, I heard that an army directive recommended
'alleviating the personnel crunch by retaining soldiers
who are earmarked for early discharge during their first
term of enlistment because of alcohol or drug abuse,
unsatisfactory performance, or being overweight, among
other reasons'. I heard that the Pentagon had asked
Congress to raise the maximum age for military recruits
from 35 to 42.

I heard that the US military was actively recruiting in
Latin America, offering citizenship in exchange for
service. I heard that Hispanic-Americans make up 9.5 per
cent of the actively enlisted, but 17.5 per cent of those
given the most dangerous assignments.

I heard that the government had offered $15,000 cash
bonuses to National Guard personnel who agreed to extend
their enlistment. I heard that the government never paid,
and cancelled the offer after many had signed up.

I heard that in veterans' hospitals, the only televison
news that is permitted is the Pentagon Channel, a 24-hour
news station that features programmes like Freedom
Journal Iraq.

I heard Rory Mayberry, a former food manager for
Halliburton in Iraq, say that they routinely served the
troops food that had expired by as much as a year. I
heard that they would salvage food from convoys that had
been attacked. I heard him say: 'We were told to go into
the trucks and remove the food items and use them after
removing the bullets and any shrapnel from the bad food
that was hit.'

I heard that, in a poll of American soldiers in Iraq,
more than half rated their unit's morale as 'low' or
'very low'.

I heard the Army Center for Health Promotion and
Preventive Medicine say that one in four veterans
required medical treatment and that it expected that as
many as 240,000 would suffer from some form of post-
traumatic stress disorder. I heard a soldier say: 'My
nightmares are so intense I woke up one night with my
hands around my fiancée's throat.'

I heard that members of the Westboro Baptist Church of
Topeka, Kansas were demonstrating at the funerals of
soldiers who had died in Iraq, claiming that the war was
divine retribution for American immorality. I heard that
they held signs depicting 'homosexual acts', with the
words 'God Hates Fags'; 'God Hates America'; 'Thank God
for IEDs [roadside bombs]'; 'Fag Soldiers in Hell'; 'God
Blew Up the Troops'; and 'Fags Doom Nations.'

I heard that headstones in Arlington National Cemetery
were now being inscribed with the slogans 'Operation
Enduring Freedom' and 'Operation Iraqi Freedom' along
with the traditional name, rank and date of death of the
deceased soldier. I heard Jeff Martell, who makes
headstones for the cemetery, say: 'It just seems a little
brazen that that's put on stones. It seems like it might
be connected to politics.'

On the first anniversary of the 'transfer of
sovereignty', I heard that there had been 484 car bombs
in the last year, killing at least 2221 people and
wounding at least 5574. I heard 890 US soldiers had been
killed in the last year and that there was now an average
of 70 insurgent attacks a day. That same day I heard the
President say: 'We fight today because terrorists want to
attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is
where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will
stay in the fight until the fight is won.'

I heard him say: 'Iraq is the latest battlefield in this
war. Many terrorists who kill innocent men, women and
children on the streets of Baghdad are followers of the
same murderous ideology that took the lives of our
citizens in New York, in Washington and Pennsylvania.'

I heard him say: 'Some may disagree with my decision to
remove Saddam Hussein from power, but all of us can agree
that the world's terrorists have now made Iraq a central
front in the War on Terror.'

And I remembered that, three years before, to justify the
invasion, he had said: 'Imagine a terrorist network with
Iraq as an arsenal and as a training ground.'

I heard Tom DeLay, then still the House majority leader,
say: 'You know, if Houston, Texas was held to the same
standard as Iraq is held to, nobody'd go to Houston,
because all this reporting coming out of the local press
in Houston is violence, murders, robberies, deaths on the
highways.'

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say that the Shias 'are reaching
out to the Sunnis and allowing them to come into the
constitutional drafting process in a very constructive
and healthy way. So there's an awful lot good that's
happening in that country.'

I heard Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary,
say: 'I think we have a clear strategy for success, and
there is great progress being made on the ground. We are
succeeding and we will succeed.'

I heard the President say: 'We have a clear path
forward.'

I heard that Halliburton had built a wall around the
Green Zone, made of 12-foot-high, five-ton concrete
slabs, topped with concertina wire. I heard that mortars
fired into the Green Zone often fell short and landed in
the neighbourhoods just outside the wall, and that
frustrated suicide bombers, unable to get into the Green
Zone, would blow themselves up outside the wall. I heard
Saman Abdel Aziz Rahman, the owner of the Serawan Kebab
Restaurant, which is next door to a restaurant where a
suicide bomber at lunchtime had killed 23 people, say:
'We are the new Palestine.' I heard Haider al-Shawaf, who
lives on al-Shawaf Street, now bisected by the wall, say
twice, in English: 'It was very nice street. It was very
nice street.'

I heard the President say: 'America will not leave before
the job is done.' I heard Dick Cheney predict that the
fighting would be over by the time the administration
ends in 2009.

Continued in part 2

Jai Maharaj
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http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2/2 WHAT I HEARD ABOUT IRAQ IN 2005 by Eliot Weinberger
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cc0c0d6d693d3574
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 4:25 am
From: usenet@mantra.comft7 and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Part 2 of 2 parts

After Amnesty International compared American treatment
of Afghan and Iraqi prisoners to the Gulag, I heard the
President say: 'It's an absurd allegation. The United
States is a country that promotes freedom around the
world. It seemed like to me they based some of their
decisions on the word of, and the allegations by, people
who were held in detention, people who hate America,
people that had been trained in some instances to
disassemble -- that means not tell the truth.'

I heard that most of the insurgent violence in Iraq was
personally directed by a Jordanian, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
I heard that rumours of his presence had led to the US
bombings of Fallujah, Ramadi, Mosul, Samarra, and a
village in Kurdistan, but each time he had narrowly
escaped. I heard that he had been seen recently in
Jordan, Syria, Iran and Pakistan. I heard that he was
closely linked with Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and
the government of Syria. I heard that he was the bitter
enemy of bin Laden, the secularist Saddam and the
secularist Syrian government. I heard that he had died in
Afghanistan. I heard that, after an injury in
Afghanistan, his leg had been amputated in a hospital in
Iraq, which was proof of Saddam's connections to
terrorism. I heard he was still walking on two legs. I
heard he was one of the hooded men in a video showing the
decapitation of a young American, Nick Berg, although the
men never removed their hoods. I heard that he had died
recently in Mosul when eight men blew themselves up
rather than surrender to the US forces who had surrounded
their house. I heard Sheikh Jawad al-Kalesi, an important
Shia cleric in Baghdad, say that Zarqawi had been killed
long ago, but the US was using him as a 'ploy'. I heard
the President compare him to Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot.
I heard that he had fewer than a hundred followers in
Iraq.

I heard that there could be as many as a hundred groups
responsible for the suicide bombings and I heard that
many of them were connected to Ansar al-Islam, which had
many more followers in Iraq than Zarqawi and had actual
ties to Osama bin Laden before the war. Ansar al-Islam
was almost never mentioned in administration speeches or
in the press, since it is a Kurdish group, and all Kurds
are presumed to be allies of the US.

I heard that unemployment for young men in Sunni areas
was now 40 per cent. I heard that the annual per capita
income was $77, half of what it was the year before; and
that only 37 per cent of families had homes connected to
a sewage system, half of what it was before the war.

I heard General George Casey say: 'Iraq slowly gets
better every day.' I heard Lieutenant Colonel Vincent
Quarles, commander of the 4-3 Brigade Troops Battalion,
say: 'It's hard to see all the progress that has been
made. But things are getting better.'

I heard that the Pentagon was supposed to deliver a
report to Congress on the training and capability of the
Iraqi security forces, but that it had missed the
deadline and was reluctant to release the report. I heard
Donald Rumsfeld say: 'It's not for us to tell the other
side, the enemy, the terrorists, that this Iraqi unit has
this capability, and that Iraqi unit has this capability.
The idea of discussing weaknesses, if you will, strengths
and weaknesses -- "this unit has a poor chain of
command," or "these forces are not as effective because
their morale's down." I mean, it would be mindless to put
that kind of information out.'

I heard General William Webster say that the insurgents'
ability 'to conduct sustained, high-intensity operations,
as they did last year --we've mostly eliminated that.' In
the next few days, I heard that suicide bombings in
Baghdad had increased, including one at a school that
killed some two dozen children, and the explosion in the
central square of a stolen truck of liquefied gas,
killing at least 71 people and wounding 156 others. I
heard that the highest-ranking diplomat from Algeria had
been kidnapped. I heard that the highest-ranking diplomat
from Egypt had been kidnapped and killed. I heard that no
Arab country would send an ambassador.

I heard an unnamed 'senior army intelligence officer'
say: 'We are capturing or killing a lot of insurgents,
but they're being replaced quicker than we can interdict
their operations. There is always another insurgent ready
to step up and take charge.' I heard him say that the US
military was having a hard time understanding the
insurgency's unlikely coalitions of secular Baath Party
members and Islamic militants.

I heard that, after a car bomb killed several children,
the Task Force Baghdad 3rd Infantry Division released a
statement quoting an 'Iraqi man who preferred not to be
identified': 'They are enemies of humanity without
religion or any sort of ethics. They have attacked my
community today and I will now take the fight to the
terrorists.' A few weeks later, after a car bomb killed
25 people near the al-Rashad police station, I heard that
the Task Force Baghdad 3rd Infantry Division released a
statement quoting an 'Iraqi man who preferred not to be
identified': 'They are enemies of humanity without
religion or any sort of ethics. They have attacked my
community today and I will now take the fight to the
terrorists.'

I heard that the administration had decided it would no
longer refer to a War on Terror. The new name was the
Global Struggle against Violent Extremism.

I heard General Richard Myers say: 'I've objected to the
use of the term "War on Terrorism" before, because if you
call it a war, then you think of people in uniform as
being the solution. And it's more than terrorism. The
long-term problem is as much diplomatic, as much economic
-- in fact, more diplomatic, more economic, more
political than it is military.'

I heard that the administration had decided it would no
longer refer to the Global Struggle against Violent
Extremism, which was too long. The new name was now the
old War on Terror.

I heard the President say: 'Make no mistake about it,
we're at war. We're at war with an enemy that attacked us
on September the 11th, 2001. We're at war against an
enemy that, since that day, has continued to kill.'

I heard Abdul Henderson, a former marine corporal, say:
'We were firing into small towns. You see people just
running, cars going, guys falling off bikes. It was just
sad. You just sit there and look through your binos and
see things blowing up, and you think, man they have no
water, living in the third world, and we're just bombing
them to hell. Blowing up buildings, shrapnel tearing
people to shreds.'

I heard a 'former high-level intelligence official' say:
'This is a war against terrorism, and Iraq is just one
campaign. The Bush administration is looking at this as a
huge war zone. Next we're going to have the Iranian
campaign.' I heard Condoleezza Rice say that an invasion
of Iran 'is not on the menu at this time'.

I heard that John Bolton, the new US ambassador to the
United Nations, had said: 'There is no such thing as the
United Nations. There is an international community that
occasionally can be led by the only real power in the
world -- and that is the United States -- when it suits
our interest and when we can get others to go along.' I
heard that he keeps a bronze hand grenade on his desk.

I heard the President say: 'This notion that the United
States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply
ridiculous. Having said that, all options are on the
table.' I heard the White House press secretary, Scott
McClellan, say: 'The President makes decisions based on
what is right for the American people.'

I heard about despair. I heard the President say: 'As
democracy in Iraq takes root, the enemies of freedom, the
terrorists, will become more desperate.' I heard about
hope. I heard him say: 'These terrorists and insurgents
will fail. We have a strategy for success in Iraq. As
Iraqis stand up, Americans and Coalition forces will
stand down.'

I heard an unnamed 'top US commander' question how the
current Iraqi Ministry of Defence, largely staffed by
civilians appointed by the US, would be capable of
maintaining an army: 'What is lacking are the systems
that pay people, that supply people, that recruit people,
that replace the wounded and AWOL, and systems that
promote people and provide spare parts.' I heard that the
ministry had deposited $759 million in the personal bank
account of a former money trader.

I heard a White House spokesman, Trent Duffy, say: 'The
President knows one of his most important
responsibilities is to comfort the families of the
fallen.' I heard Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey had been
killed in Iraq, describe her meeting with the President.

I heard her say: 'He first got there, he walked in and
said: "So who are we honouring here?" He didn't even know
Casey's name, he didn't, nobody could have whispered to
him: "Mr President, this is the Sheehan family, their son
Casey was killed in Iraq." We thought that was pretty
disrespectful to not even know Casey's name, and to walk
in and say: "So who are we honourin' here?" Like: "Let's
get on with it, let's get somebody honoured here." So
anyway, he went up to my oldest daughter, I keep calling
her my oldest daughter but she's actually my oldest child
now, and he said: "So who are you to the loved one?" And
Carly goes: "Casey was my brother." And George Bush says:
"I wish I could bring your loved one back, to fill the
hole in your heart." And Carly said: "Yeah, so do we."
And Bush said: "I'm sure you do." And he gave her a dirty
look and turned away from her.'

As the President moved to his ranch for a six-week summer
vacation, Cindy Sheehan camped out at the entrance,
demanding another meeting, which the President refused. I
heard him say: 'I think it's important for me to be
thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something
to say. But I think it's also important for me to go on
with my life, to keep a balanced life. I think the people
want the President to be in a position to make good,
crisp decisions and to stay healthy. And part of my being
is to be outside exercising.'

I heard that privately he had said: 'I'm not meeting
again with that goddamned bitch. She can go to hell as
far as I'm concerned.'

I heard that 82 per cent of Iraqis were 'strongly
opposed' to the presence of foreign troops and 45 per
cent supported armed attacks against them. Less than 1
per cent believed that the foreign troops had made the
country more secure.

I heard 'top military commanders' say that we could
expect 'some fairly substantial reductions' in troops by
next spring. I heard them add that the reduction would
come after 'a short-term bulge in troop levels'.

I heard that 1100 bodies were brought to the Baghdad
morgue in one month, many with hands bound and a bullet
in the head. I heard that between 10 and 20 per cent were
too disfigured to be identified. I heard that in the
Saddam era the number was normally around 200. I heard
that doctors were ordered not to perform post-mortems on
bodies brought in by US troops.

On a single day, I heard that fighting had broken out
between two Shia militias in Najaf, leaving 19 dead; that
the bodies of 37 Shia soldiers, each killed with a single
bullet to the head, had been found in a river south of
Baghdad; that Jalal Talabani had escaped an assassination
attempt in which eight of his bodyguards were killed and
15 injured. On that same day, I heard an 'unnamed White
House official' say that the Iraqis were 'making
substantial and real progress'.

I heard Condoleezza Rice say: 'It's a lot easier to see
the violence and suicide bombing than to see the rather
quiet political progress that's going on in parallel.' I
heard her say that the insurgency was 'losing steam'.

As riots broke out in Baghdad over the lack of
electricity, I heard Nadeem Haki, a shop-owner in
Baghdad, say: 'We thank God that the air we breathe is
not in the hands of the government. Otherwise they would
have cut it off for a few hours each day.'

I heard General Barry McCaffrey say, after returning from
an inspection of Iraq: 'This thing, the wheels are coming
off of it.'

I heard that the President's approval rating had fallen
to 36 per cent, lower than Nixon's during the summer of
Watergate. I heard that 50 per cent now believed that
sending troops to Iraq was a mistake. I heard Trent Duffy
say that the President 'believes that those who want the
US to begin to change course in Iraq do not want America
to win the overall War on Terror. He can understand that
people don't share his view that we must win the War on
Terror -- but he just has a different view.' I heard that
the President, at a strategy meeting, had said: 'Who
gives a flying fuck what the polls say? I'm the President
and I'll do whatever I goddamn please. They don't know
shit.'

I heard Donald Rumsfeld say: 'It's been alleged that
we're not winning. Throughout history there have always
been those who predict America's failure just around
every corner. At the height of World War Two, many
Western intellectuals praised Stalin. For a time,
Communism was very much in vogue. Those being tossed
about by the winds of concern should recall that
Americans are a tough lot and will see their commitments
through.'

I heard General Douglas Lute, director of operations at
US Central Command, say that the US would withdraw a
significant number of troops within a year. I heard him
say: 'We believe at some point, in order to break this
dependence on the Coalition, you simply have to back off
and let the Iraqis step forward.' The day before, I heard
the President say that withdrawal would 'only embolden
the terrorists and create a staging ground to launch more
attacks against America and free countries. So long as
I'm the President, we will stay, we will fight, and we
will win the War on Terror.'

I heard the President, still on vacation at his ranch,
say: 'A time of war is a time of sacrifice.' I heard a
reporter ask him if he planned to do any fishing, and I
heard the President reply: 'I don't know yet. I haven't
made up my mind yet. I'm kind of hanging loose, as they
say.'

I heard that the US was now spending $195 million a day
on the war and that the cost had already exceeded, by $50
billion, US expenses in all of World War One. I heard
that $195 million would provide 12 meals a day for every
starving child on earth.

I heard the President, at North Island Naval Air Station
in San Diego, compare the War on Terror to World War Two.
I heard him quote the words of Captain Randy Stone, a
marine in Iraq: 'I know we will win because I see it in
the eyes of the marines every morning. In their eyes is
the sparkle of victory.' In a long speech, I heard him
briefly mention Hurricane Katrina, which had struck a few
days before and which, at the time, was believed to have
killed tens of thousands. I heard him say: 'I urge
everyone in the affected areas to continue to follow
instructions from state and local authorities.'

I heard that the emergency response to the hurricane had
been hampered because 35 per cent of the Louisiana
National Guard and 40 per cent of the Mississippi
National Guard, as well as much of their equipment and
vehicles, were in Iraq. Approximately 5000 Guards and
troops were eventually deployed; in 1992, following
Hurricane Andrew in Florida, George Bush Sr had sent in
36,000 troops. I heard that the Guardsmen in Iraq were
denied emergency two-week leave to help or find their
families. I heard they were told by their commanders that
there were too few US troops in Iraq to spare them.

A few weeks after the hurricane, I heard the President
say: 'You know, something we -- I've been thinking a lot
about how America has responded, and it's clear to me
that Americans value human life, and value every person
as important. And that stands in stark contrast, by the
way, to the terrorists we have to deal with. You see, we
look at the destruction caused by Katrina, and our hearts
break. They're the kind of people who look at Katrina and
wish they had caused it. We're in a war against these
people. It's a War on Terror.'

On the day after an estimated 200,000 people demonstrated
against the war in Washington, a pro-war rally was held
on the Mall. I heard Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican
from Alabama, address the crowd: 'The group who spoke
here the other day did not represent the American ideals
of freedom, liberty and spreading that around the world.
I frankly don't know what they represent.' The crowd was
estimated at 400.

I heard that, along with the $30 billion appropriated by
Congress, the US Agency for International Development was
also seeking private donations: 'Now you can donate high-
impact development assistance that directly improves the
lives of thousands of Iraqis.' I heard that USAID's
'extraordinary appeal' had raised $600, but I heard
Heather Layman, spokeswoman for USAID, say that she was
not disappointed: 'Every little bit helps.'

In 2003, Dick Cheney had said: 'Since I left Halliburton
to become George Bush's vice-president, I've severed all
my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial
interest. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of
any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years.' I
heard that he was still receiving deferred compensation
and owned more than 433,000 stock options. Those options
were worth $241,498 in 2004. In 2005 they were worth more
than $8 million. Along with its $10 billion no-bid
contracts in Iraq, Halliburton was hired to expand the
prison at Guantanamo and was among the first to receive a
no-bid contract for Hurricane Katrina relief.

I heard the President say: 'At this moment, more than a
dozen Iraqi battalions have completed training and are
conducting anti-terrorist operations in Ramadi and
Fallujah. More than 20 battalions are operating in
Baghdad. And some have taken the lead in operations in
major sectors of the city. In total, more than 100
battalions are operating throughout Iraq. Our commanders
report that the Iraqi forces are operating with
increasing effectiveness.'

An Iraqi battalion has about 700 soldiers. The next day I
heard General George Casey tell Congress that the number
of 'combat ready' Iraqi battalions had dropped from three
to one. I heard him say: 'Iraqi armed forces will not
have an independent capability for some time.' When asked
when the American people can expect troops to be
withdrawn from Iraq, I heard him reply: 'I don't want to
get into a date. I wouldn't even want to go there,
wouldn't even want to go there.'

I heard Colonel Stephen Davis, commander of Marine
Regimental Combat Team 2, tell a group of Iraqis that the
US was not leaving: 'We're not going anywhere. Some of
you are concerned about the attack helicopters and mortar
fire from the base. I will tell you this: those are the
sounds of peace.'

I heard General George Casey say that the insurgency 'is
failing. We are more relentless in our progress than
those who seek to disrupt it.'

I heard General John Abizaid say: 'The insurgency doesn't
have a chance for victory.'

I heard Condoleezza Rice say: 'We have made significant
progress.'

I heard Major General Rick Lynch, the chief military
spokesman in Iraq, say: 'Zarqawi is on the ropes.'

As the administration celebrated the approval of the
long-delayed constitution, I heard Safia Taleb al-Suhail
-- the daughter of a man who was executed by Saddam
Hussein and who, in a staged moment during the State of
the Union address, embraced the mother of an American
soldier killed in Iraq -- say: 'When we came back from
exile, we thought we were going to improve rights and the
position of women. But look what has happened -- we have
lost all the gains we made over the last 30 years. It's a
big disappointment.'

I heard an Iraqi Shia sergeant say: 'Just let us have our
constitution and elections in December and then we will
do what Saddam did -- start with five people from each
neighbourhood and kill them in the streets and then go
from there.'

I heard Melvin Laird, secretary of defense under Nixon
during the Vietnam War, call for the withdrawal of
troops. I heard him say of the President: 'When troops
are dying, the commander in chief cannot be coy, vague or
secretive. His West Texas cowboy approach -- shoot first
and answer questions later, or do the job first and let
the results speak for themselves -- is not working.'

I heard Brent Scowcroft, the national security adviser
and a close friend of Bush Sr, say: 'I thought we ought
to make it our duty to help make the world friendlier for
the growth of liberal regimes. You encourage democracy
over time, with assistance and aid, the traditional way.
Not how the neo-cons do it.' They 'believe in the export
of democracy, by violence if that is required. How do the
neo-cons bring democracy to Iraq? You invade, you
threaten and pressure, you evangelise.' I heard him say
that America is now 'suffering from the consequences of
this brand of revolutionary utopianism'.

I heard Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell's chief
of staff at the State Department, say that foreign policy
had been 'hijacked' by the 'Cheney-Rumsfeld cabal'. I
heard him say that Rumsfeld was 'given carte blanche to
tell the State Department to go screw itself in a closet
somewhere'. I heard him say: 'If something comes along
that is truly serious, something like a nuclear weapon
going off in a major American city, or something like a
major pandemic, you are going to see the ineptitude of
this government in a way that will take you back to the
Declaration of Independence.'

I heard that 2000 US soldiers had been killed in Iraq;
that 15,220 had been wounded in combat, including more
than 7100 who were 'injured too badly to return to duty';
and that thousands more had been 'hurt in incidents
unrelated to combat'.

I heard that a spokesman for the US military in Iraq,
Lieutenant Colonel Steve Boylan, had sent an email to
journalists asking them to downplay the marker of 2000
dead: 'When you report on the events, take a moment to
think about the effects on the families and those serving
in Iraq. The 2000 service members killed in Iraq
supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom is not a milestone. It
is an artificial mark on the wall set by individuals or
groups with specific agendas and ulterior motives.'

I heard that 65 per cent of Americans now believed that
the Iraq war was based on falsified information; only 42
per cent considered the President 'honest and ethical'
and only 29 per cent considered Dick Cheney 'honest and
ethical'.

I heard the President say: 'Anti-war critics are now
claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the
American people about why we went to war. The stakes in
the global War on Terror are too high, and the national
interest is too important, for politicians to throw out
false charges. These baseless attacks send the wrong
signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning
America's will.'

I heard Dick Cheney say: 'The suggestion that's been made
by some US senators that the President of the United
States or any member of this administration purposely
misled the American people on prewar intelligence is one
of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever
aired in this city.'

A few days later, I heard Dick Cheney complain that the
'liberal' media had distorted his remarks. As evidence, I
heard him cite a headline that read: 'Cheney says war
critics "dishonest, reprehensible".' Then, in the same
speech, I heard him say: 'I will again say it is
dishonest and reprehensible. This is revisionism of the
most corrupt and shameless variety.'

I heard Congressman John Murtha, Democrat from
Pennsylvania, a marine colonel decorated in the Korean
and Vietnam Wars, and a prominent military hawk, with
tears in his eyes call for the withdrawal of US troops
within six months. I heard Scott McClellan say: 'It is
baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of
Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing.' I heard
Congressman Geoff Davis, Republican from Kentucky, say:
'Ayman Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's deputy, as well as Abu
Musab al Zarqawi, have made it quite clear in their
internal propaganda that they cannot win unless they can
drive the Americans out. And they know that they can't do
that there, so they've brought the battlefield to the
halls of Congress.' I heard Congresswoman Jean Schmidt,
Republican from Ohio, say: 'Cowards cut and run. Marines
never do.'

I heard the President say: 'Some contend that we should
set a deadline for withdrawing US forces. Let me explain
why that would be a serious mistake. Setting an
artificial timetable would send the wrong message to the
Iraqis, who need to know that America will not leave
before the job is done.'

I heard that, at an extraordinary 'meeting of
reconciliation', a hundred Shia, Sunni and Kurdish
leaders had signed a statement demanding 'a withdrawal of
foreign troops on a specified timetable'.

I heard that their statement also said: 'National
resistance is a legitimate right of all nations.'

I heard Congresswoman Jean Schmidt say: 'The big picture
is that these Islamic insurgents want to destroy us. They
don't like us. They don't like us because we're black,
we're white, we're Christian, we're Jew, we're educated,
we're free, we're not Islamic. We can never be Islamic
because we were not born Islamic. Now, this isn't the
Islamic citizens. These are the insurgents. And it is
their desire for us to leave so they can take over the
whole Middle East and then take over the world. And I
didn't learn this just in the last few weeks or the last
few months. I learned this when I was at the University
of Cincinnati in 1970, studying Middle Eastern history.'

I heard that, in Fallujah and elsewhere, the US had
employed white phosphorus munitions, an incendiary
device, known among soldiers as 'Willie Pete' or 'shake
and bake', which is banned as a weapon by the Convention
on Conventional Weapons. Similar to napalm, it leaves the
victim horribly burned, often right through to the bone.
I heard a State Department spokesman say: 'US forces have
used them very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination
purposes. They were fired into the air to illuminate
enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters.' Then I
heard him say that 'US forces used white phosphorus
rounds to flush out enemy fighters so that they could
then be killed with high explosive rounds.' Then I heard
a Pentagon spokesman say that the previous statements
were based on 'poor information', and that 'it was used
as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants.' Then I
heard the Pentagon say that white phosphorus was not an
illegal weapon, because the US had never signed that
provision of the Convention on Conventional Weapons.

I heard that US troops had accidentally come across an
Interior Ministry bunker in Baghdad with more than 170
Sunni prisoners who had been captured by Shia
paramilitary groups and tortured, some with electric
drills. I heard Hussein Kamal, the deputy interior
minister, say: 'One or two detainees were paralysed and
some had their skin peeled off various parts of their
bodies.' I heard a State Department spokesman, Adam
Ereli, say: 'We don't practise torture. And we don't
believe that others should practise torture.'

I heard that the Senate, after an hour of debate, voted
to deny habeas corpus protection to prisoners in
Guantanamo. The last time the US suspended the right to
trial was during the Civil War.

I heard that a human rights organisation, Christian
Peacemaker Teams, was distributing a questionnaire to
inmates released from Iraqi prisons. Those surveyed were
asked to check 'yes' or 'no' after each question:

Stripped of your clothing (nude)?
Beaten by hand (punches)?
Beaten by stick or rod?
Beaten by cables, wires or belts?
Held at gunpoint?
Hooded?
Had cold water poured on you?
Had a rope tied to your genitalia?
Called names, insults?
Threatened or touched by dogs?
Dragged by rope or belt?
Denied prayer or wudhu [ablution]?
Forced to perform sexual acts?
Were you raped or sodomised?
Did someone improperly touch your genitalia?
Did you witness any sexual acts while in detention?
Did you witness any rapes of men, women or
children?
Urinated on or made to touch faeces, or had faeces
thrown at you?
Denied sleep?
Denied food?
Witnessed any deaths?
Did you witness any torture or mistreatment to
others?
Forced to wear woman's clothes? [Question for men
only]
Were you burned or exposed to extreme heat?
Exposed to severe cold?
Subjected to electric shock?
Forced to act like a dog?
Forced in uncomfortable positions for a
lengthy period of time?
Forced to stand or sit in a painful manner for
lengthy periods of time?
Lose consciousness?
Forced to hit others?
Hung by feet?
Hung by hands or arms?
Threatened to have family killed?
Family members detained?
Witnessed family members tortured?
Forced to sign anything?
Photographed?

I heard a man who had been in Abu Ghraib prison say: 'The
Americans brought electricity to my ass before they
brought it to my house.'

I heard that the Lincoln Group, a public relations firm
in Washington, had received $100 million from the
Pentagon to promote the war. As well as bribing Iraqi
journalists, often with monthly stipends, the Lincoln
Group was writing its own articles and paying Iraqi
newspapers to publish them. I heard that the articles,
intending to have local appeal, had titles such as 'The
Sands Are Blowing toward a Democratic Iraq' or 'Iraqi
Forces Capture al-Qaida Fighters Crawling like Dogs'. I
heard a Pentagon spokesman, Major General Rick Lynch,
say: 'We do empower our operational commanders with the
ability to inform the Iraqi public, but everything we do
is based on fact, not based on fiction.' I heard him
quote the al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahiri: 'Remember,
half the battle is the battlefield of the media.'

I heard that the average monthly war coverage on the ABC,
NBC and CBS evening newscasts, combined, had gone from
388 minutes in 2003, to 274 in 2004, to 166 in 2005.

I heard that 2110 US troops had died in Iraq and more
than 15,881 had been wounded. Ninety-four per cent of
those deaths had come after the 'Mission Accomplished'
speech, the first two sentences of which were: 'Major
combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of
Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.' I
heard there were now an average of a hundred insurgent
attacks a day and an average of three American soldiers
dying, the highest violence and casualty rates since the
war began.

I heard that the President, in response to the increasing
criticism, was going to reveal a new strategy for Iraq.
On 30 November 2005, the administration issued a 35-page
report: 'National Strategy for Victory in Iraq'. On a
page headed 'Our Strategy Is Working', I read that, on
the 'Economic Track', 'Our Restore, Reform, Build
strategy is achieving results'; on the 'Political Track',
'Our Isolate, Engage and Build strategy is working'; and
on the 'Security Track', 'Our Clear, Hold and Build
strategy is working.' General goals would be achieved in
the 'short', 'medium' or 'long' term. The report ended
with 'The Eight Strategic Pillars' ('Strategic Pillar
One: Defeat the Terrorists and Neutralise the Insurgency;
Strategic Pillar Two: Transition Iraq to Security Self-
Reliance'), like the Five Pillars of Islam or Seven
Pillars of Wisdom. I heard that the 'Strategy' contained
few specific details because it was the 'public version
of a classified document'. Then I heard that there was no
classified document.

That same day, I heard the President address the US Naval
Academy in Annapolis. I heard him say: 'We will never
back down. We will never give in. And we will never
accept anything less than complete victory.' I heard him
say: 'To all who wear the uniform, I make you this
pledge: America will not run in the face of car bombers
and assassins so long as I am your commander in chief.'
In a front of a huge sign that read plan for victory, he
stood at a podium bearing a huge sign that read plan for
victory. I wondered whether 'plan' was a verb.

That same day, I heard that members of the Christian
Peacemaker Teams had been kidnapped by members of the
Swords of Islam.

4 December 2005

- - -

Eliot Weinberger's What I Heard about Iraq, which first
appeared in the LRB in February, has been published as a
book by Verso; 9/12 is published by Prickly Paradigm;
What Happened Here: Bush Chronicles is forthcoming from
New Directions.

End of forwarded message from moderator@portside.org
http://www.portside.org

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Salad Bar" is a slow learner! BAD DOGGIE! BAD DOGGIE! BAD, BAD ....
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e8403aabe2a4928c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 4:29 am
From: "Mexican Bandolero"

"Salah Jafar" <codeman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TvpTf.4411$vy.951@trnddc01...
How is your mother? is she been good,
SJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Salah Doogggiieee. You're very responsive to my commands now.
Now, at the count of one, jump!
At the count of two, jump higher.
At the count of three, jump....ooppps..you fall, Salah Doggie.
Bad!

For the next trick, learn how to run in circles.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:33 pm
From: "Mexican Bandolero"

"Salah Jafar" <codeman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rypTf.4414$vy.898@trnddc01...
how is your mother doing boy? Did she learn new tricks for daddy Salah. I
like to play with you mother fofo.
SJ

But you are a dog, Salah Doggie!
It would be better if you fuck a goat, but first learn the Doggie style.
If you do, I'll take a picture and post it in this N.G

Now sit down and play dead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp")
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:29 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:37:16 -0800, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:32:59 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Can anyone please explain WHY this "song" is nominated for an award??
>>>>>>>>>>At least someone had enough common sense to ensure a 5-second *delay*
>>>>>>>>>>is in effect during the show.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Because it does a good job of representing the movie that it was
>>>>>>>>>scored for, which would be the reason any song is nominated in the
>>>>>>>>>oscars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Can ya show us where it says THAT is the main criteria for nomination?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where did I say it was the 'main reason'? Again you misiterpret my
>>>>>>>words and ask me to explain your misinterpretation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes you're right. You did say it was "the" reason for its nomination,
>>>>>>not the main reason. So my question is even more relevant now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.oscars.org/78academyawards/rules/rule16.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Read the rules and get informed before you get into discussions you
>>>>>know little about.
>>>>
>>>>Where in the rules does it justify voting for a piece of trash.
>>>>
>>>I see. Everyone was supposed to start with the premise that YOUR
>>>opinion is the only one that matters. Well, sorry to disappoint you
>>>but the people who voted obviously couldn't care less about your
>>>opinion on the matter. Try to live with it.
>>
>>I can live with it just fine, because I realized many, many years ago
>>that the Oscar awards committee was packed with folks who are way out
>>of the mainstream. Of course, I do keep hoping for a pleasant
>>surprise now and then, but it looks like I've got more waiting to do.
>>
>It's interesting that you consider yourself the definition of
>'mainstream' while the real thing moves further and further from you.
>As I have said in the past, you will die off, just like all the old
>people who ranted about how rock and roll, jazz and any other kind of
>music that moved into the mainstream was destroying something and
>never did. And Rap Music will still be here...

cRap music will be still be here for a small group of knuckleheads,
but just because the super-liberal Hollywood types saw fit to give it
ONE award doesn't mean that it is now "accepted" by the mainstream,
because it isn't.

>>>>>>>Are you claiming
>>>>>>>that the song has nothing to do with the movie it was scored for? Are
>>>>>>>you claiming that such a criteria has nothing to do with it's
>>>>>>>nomination?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Virutally every movie made over the past 40 years has a soundtrack, so
>>>>>>the fact that this putrid film has a song that "represents" it is
>>>>>>meaningless. I still have no idea, upon reviewing the lyrics, why on
>>>>>>earth *this* song is worthy of an award.
>>>>>>
>>>>>That's because, as you have already admitted, you haven't seen the
>>>>>film and you are a poor judge of whether or not it effectively
>>>>>represents the film for just that reason.
>>>>
>>>>Since nearly every movie made has at least one song that "represents"
>>>>it at least as well as this one, I still don't see why *this* one has
>>>>to win the award.
>>>>
>>>You haven't seen the movie so you have no legitmate metric to make
>>>your judgement from. Until then it's just you ranting your usual
>>>uninformed opinion.
>>
>>Wrong, I DO have a "legitmate metric" -- it's called the lyrics, which
>>I and others around here have referred to, including right here on
>>this thread. Now grab some coffee, then open yer eyes, and yer mind
>>too.
>>
>Your "legitmate metric" is not the one that the oscars use so as far
>as the "oscar winners" your metric is useless. Go find someone who
>cares about the songs of old white men wishing for the past.

You missed the point as usual. Of course the Oscar folks didn't take
the lyrics into account when selecting the award -- if they did, they
would have had to give the award to someone else.

>>>>>>>>>You want songs about happy people singing in the mountains go back to
>>>>>>>>>the past where you belong. Oops, you can't do that. Guess you'll
>>>>>>>>>have to deal with reality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wrong dunce. I already do deal with "reality", and have been every
>>>>>>>>day that I've walked on this Earth. Unlike you. Now I don't
>>>>>>>>necessarily want "happy" songs, but I don't think filth that might be
>>>>>>>>OK in the `hood but nowhere else should get a form of AA here. Like:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Man it seems like I'm duckin dodgin bullets everyday
>>>>>>>>Niggaz hatin on me cause I got, hos on the tray
>>>>>>>>But I gotta stay paid, gotta stay above water
>>>>>>>>Couldn't keep up with my hos, that's when s--- got harder
>>>>>>>>North Memphis where I'm from, I'm 7th Street bound
>>>>>>>>Where niggaz all the time end up lost and never found
>>>>>>>>Man these girls think we prove thangs, leave a big head
>>>>>>>>They come hopin every night, they don't end up bein dead
>>>>>>>>Wait I got a snow bunny, and a black girl too
>>>>>>>>You pay the right price and they'll both do you
>>>>>>>>That's the way the game goes, gotta keep it strictly pimpin
>>>>>>>>Gotta have my hustle tight, makin change off these women, yeah"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now I've said this before and I say it again: What if MLK had
>>>>>>>>suddenly returned to life. Suppose he came back Sunday evening,
>>>>>>>>flipped on the TV to see what passes for entertainment today, tuned
>>>>>>>>into the Oscars and saw a group of young black men chanting the above
>>>>>>>>lyrics? What would he think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have no idea, but I am quite certain that his concern would be
>>>>>>>turned towards an illegal war and a government that was lying to it's
>>>>>>>citizens to cover up the biggest corruption scandal in Washington in
>>>>>>>decades instead of what is happening at the oscars. Especially given
>>>>>>>that his rhetoric had turned towards an anti-war message instead of
>>>>>>>civil rights towards the end of his life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So IOW he wouldn't give a damn about the current state of affairs in
>>>>>>the black community?
>>>>>
>>>>>No. He wouldn't measure the current state of affairs in the black
>>>>>community by what was nominated as best song in the oscars. He wasn't
>>>>>stupid.
>>>>
>>>>But he understood the power of the media. Better than many even
>>>>today, over 40 years later. I seriously doubt he would have been
>>>>pleased that of all the songs associated with movies that were written
>>>>and/or performed by black artists, this particular one was deemed
>>>>worthy of an Oscar.
>>>>
>>>Only a stupid bigot such as yourself would think that MLK would be
>>>judging the condition of the black community based on a song being
>>>judged by a mostly white audience, the oscar voters. He, unlike you,
>>>would have the decency to actually speak to black people in their
>>>homes and workplaces just as he did in the time he was alive. To
>>>assume that he would do so by clicking on the television set and
>>>making a judgement based on an awards show is just stupid, which
>>>explains why you used it.
>>
>>And he had gone out to black homes and workplaces, he would have
>>gotten an earful, just like when a couple of journalists for the
>>Washington Post did the day after the awards:
>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/06/AR2006030601461.html
>
>
>Yes, let's see what the article says about it...
>
>Retha Hill, vice president of content for BET.com -- whose audience is
>largely African American, college-educated and urban -- said her Web
>site began posting discussions soon after the song was nominated
>because her staff knew it would be controversial.
>
>She said the Oscar selection and the song should be put in context. It
>was rapped in the film by the pimp as he struggled to make it as a
>hip-hop artist, she said. He was telling the story of how he hoped to
>rise above his circumstances and improve his lot -- a classic underdog
>story.
>
>"In the context of the movie, the song makes perfect sense," Hill
>said. "But if you have not seen the movie or are just watching the
>performance on the Academy Awards as members of middle America and you
>hear someone talking about being a pimp, it is very difficult for you
>to understand."
>___________________________
>
>Imagine that!! She says that the song should be put in context, just
>like I've been saying all along.

Yes, the context that the main character is a PIMP. Some hero.

And everyone else, those ordinary folks in the `hood who were
interviewed for the article were not as enthusiastic about the award,
and some were outright disappointed.

And of course, other reviewers, including black ones, of the movie
weren't as thrilled either. From:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/331126p-283024c.html

Film tries to 'Hustle' us on value of street cred
by Stanley Crouch

The movie "Hustle & Flow" is not only the latest update of
blaxploitation and the most recent neo-minstrel development in black
popular culture. It also represents a crisis of artistic
consciousness because it was produced by filmmaker John Singleton, and
has been supported by Spike Lee and Will Smith, both of whom have
presented private screenings.

This is not minor because all three of these men have previously
remained removed from celebrating the sort of scum that this film -
and that the worst of the rap industry - raises high from the dung
heap of popular culture at its most irresponsible and dehumanizing.

Some will defend it because of the remarkable performance by Terrence
Howard, who portrays a low-level pimp with a dream of becoming a rap
star. With that arrives a muddled conception of morality in which up
is down and down is up. The condescension toward black people and
women is astounding.

The pimp is airbrushed and carries himself like just another ignorant
Negro trying to get above the bottom. That is the fundamental fraud of
the film, which avoids the hard story of pimps and their brutal
relationships to their whores, who are actually the tragic figures.
If, like "The Godfather," it had sought to tell the blood-encrusted
truth, it might not have been so irresponsible and might have been
able to boast a complexity more like that of this year's "Crash,"
which also featured the plentiful gifts of Howard.

As a rapper, the pimp in "Hustle & Flow" is supposed to have so much
charisma that he is able to convert, or should we say pervert, the
middle-class wife of his record producer, a high school buddy. As is
often the case, the black middle-class woman is depicted as a
hindering lame. But true to cliched manipulation, she thrusts aside
her reservations about her husband's wallowing with scum and brings
sandwiches to a recording session! The session is held at the pimp's
home; not a whorehouse, but one full of his whores. As one black
woman said to me, "Supporting your man's dream is one thing, but what
sophisticated black woman would go to a pimp's house and offer him,
his whores and her husband some snacks?"

Easy: the straw one in the movie.

This film is not about facts or morality or the artistic accuracy of
tragic vision. It is about commercialism masquerading as black
authenticity. How Singleton, Lee and Smith went for this package is a
serious question.

According to this movie, and as we should know, "street credibility" -
thug and criminal experience - supposedly transcends all things, be
they upper class, middle class or no class.

Of course, the worst of rap has long projected and promoted the amoral
vision of thugs and street hustlers, all of whom, in the real world,
have never - ever - been shy about saying that they would sell
excrement if there was a market for it. This vision has proved quite
successful for the extremes of rap, where criminality, misogyny and
the crudest materialism soar above all.

Singleton, who has been an ambitious filmmaker, will probably draw a
big profit. He is now willing to take his audience into a world where
fertilizer is worshiped because it grows bushels of money. But never
forget that fertilizer always smells exactly like what it is.

That, finally, is what we can say of "Hustle & Flow."

Originally published on July 25, 2005

>is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TORTURE, AS AMERICAN AS APPLE PIE IS!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a4d7afbcfd3126b9
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 8:48 pm
From: isaac_the_blind

serwad wrote:
> Essentially you have a judge saying that assuming that U.S. officials sent
> Mr. Arar to be tortured, a judge can do nothing about it.
> In a startling, ominous decision-ignored by most of the press around the
> country-Federal District Judge David Trager, in the Eastern District of New
> York, has dismissed a lawsuit by a Canadian citizen, Maher Arar, who, during
> a stopover at Kennedy Airport on the way home to Canada after vacation, was
> kidnapped by CIA agents.
>
> Liberty Beat The Torture Judge U.S. court rules our government can break
> international laws to keep us safe by Nat Hentoff March 13th, 2006 12:45 AM
> Federal judge David Trager: Am I my president's keeper? photo: Rick Kopstein
> Essentially you have a judge saying that assuming that U.S. officials sent
> Mr. Arar to be tortured, a judge can do nothing about it. Georgetown
> University law professor David Cole, New York Law Journal, February 17 In a
> startling, ominous decision-ignored by most of the press around the
> country-Federal District Judge David Trager, in the Eastern District of New
> York, has dismissed a lawsuit by a Canadian citizen, Maher Arar, who, during
> a stopover at Kennedy Airport on the way home to Canada after vacation, was
> kidnapped by CIA agents. Arar was flown to Syria, where he was tortured for
> nearly a year in solitary confinement in a three-by-six-foot cell ("like a
> grave," he said). He became, internationally, one of the best-known victims
> of the CIA's extraordinary renditions-the sending of suspected terrorists to
> countries known for torturing their prisoners. Released after his ordeal,
> Arar has not been charged with any involvement in terrorism, or anything
> else, by Syria or the United States. Stigmatized by his notoriety, still
> traumatized, unemployed, he is back in Canada, where the Canadian Parliament
> had opened an extensive and expensive public inquiry into his capture and
> torture. The United States refuses to cooperate in any way with this
> investigation.
>
> (And do not think for a minute that you cannot be next Arar!)
>
>
>
>
Interesting to know what the reaction would be if a US citizen was
snatched from, say Japan then taken to Tibet and tortured for a year by
the Chinese before being dumped in Mexico.A WASP citizen of course :-)
Isaac.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Islam denounces Terrorism
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/96d0cb9f64c0a9cd
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:44 pm
From: navegaweb

Excellent post - thank-you.

~ navegaweb ~

K James wrote:
> Islam denounces Terrorism.
>
> This film, produced by the Science Research Foundation, a Harun Yahya institution, presents the Muslim response to and
> denunciation of terrorism. Beginning with the event of September 11th, the film explains that all kinds of violence
> against civilians are crimes against humanity and grave sins in religious terms.
>
> It is also stressed that terrorism is an inherent feature of secular ideologies like communism, fascism and racism. In
> contrast, all theistic religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - are opposed to terrorism and their ultimate goal is
> to bring peace and brotherhood to mankind.
>
> For the full video in either *MPEG* or *DivX* format visit: http://www.harunyahya.com/m_video_detail.php?api_id=1162
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UNA VEZ MAS SE COMPRUEBA LO MARICONES Y PUTAS QUE SON MUCHOS EN LOS
MEDIOS MASIVOS..
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/397e95a9683b4e58
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 20 2006 12:05 am
From: "Crusader"

Esa putas y rameras se descubren a diario con sus puercas mentiras.Lo bueno
es ,que como todos los embusteros al final se descubren lo hijo de putas que
han sido

"PM" <pedro1940@progression.net> wrote in message
news:sSBSf.6972$fy1.297319@news20.bellglobal.com...
MENTIROSOS, TERGIVERSADORES Y ENCUBRIDORES DE LA MALDAD
Y EL CRIMEN:

La plana mayor de la BBC de Londres tuvo que renunciar porque los agarraron
violando la ética periodística.

MENOS MAL QUE HOY YA TENEMOS INTERNET....JE, JE, JE, Y LLEGAMOS A MILLONES
DE PERSONAS SIN QUE ESOS HIJOS DE PUTAS NI SE ENTEREN.

--
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Back to the days of religious frenzy.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fd503a98cf151d31
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 9:08 pm
From: "Mirza Ghalib"

Think it over
BACK TO THE DAYS OF RELIGIOUS FRENZY?
By M.S.N. Menon, Mar 19
Published in the Organiser

Is the world going out of control? Is terrorism gaining the upper hand?
Holding the world in a state of paroxysm? Are we going back to the days
of religious frenzy?

We thought that the age of religious bigotry was over. We were wrong.
New bigotries are breaking out like plague-fundamentalism,
Talibanism, terrorism. All of them have to do with radical Islam-the
new threat to peace. It is said, Islam has a grievance against the
world. Which is what Hitler and the communists used to say.

But Hitler and the communists had no God to support them. Not so with
the Islamists. Their God is ever the patron of all their enterprises.
In fact, He "loves" their work, we are told. Of killing?Yes.

No, protest the Muslim intellectuals. They are the perennial
apologists. But what have they done to prevent the present killings?
This question can no more be evaded. Silence is not an answer.

Murder is a serious offence. It is an offence against our right to
life. Only the law can deny life. No one can assume the right to take
away the life of another. This principle has to be established. The
Nuremburg courts must be universalised against those who believe in
murder to change the way of the world.

Today, Islam has come to be identified with the mullah, the bearded
young men, the Taliban, the burqua clad women, madrasas and frenzied
mobs. The image is rather frightening. It is like a world in decay and
out of control.

Terror has no place in Islam-this is the usual refrain. Yet jehad is
a central principle of Islam and it is all about the use of terror.

Islam had one advantage in the past. The world knew almost nothing of
what it was all about. This changed with 9/11. The world is now awash
with unfavourable questions. Is Islam a religion of violence? Is it
democratic? Why are Muslim countries ruled by despots? More questions
will be asked. Which is why Tony Blair, the British Prime Minister was
forced to say that it is time for Muslims to have a close look at their
religion. They have refused to do so in 1,400 years! Their plea? That
Islam is the only perfect religion!

The Muslim world has not produced a great thinker or statesman in the
last 1000 years. Why? Because, it is said, its feudal rulers do not
permit them to grow. That may well be so. But the question remains: Can
the civilised world respect a religion which continues to suppress
thinkers and statesmen? In any case, when others have overthrown their
feudal rulers, why can´t Muslims do the same? It is for them to answer
this question.

The Taliban shocked the world by destroying the 1,500-year-old Bamiyan
Buddhas. The Muslim world failed to stop them. Behind that vandalism is
the outrageous belief that Muslims must destroy everything pre-Islamic
in their midst. Can humanity allow such pernicious doctrines to float
around?

The Taliban called themselves "soldiers of Allah". But they lived
by selling narcotics, which killed millions of innocent people,
including Muslims. And yet they were called "soldiers of Allah"!

Eric Hobsbaum, the historian, says: "We do not know where we are
going. We only know that history has brought us to this point." No
much modesty in Islam. Ask a Muslim theologian. He knows where he is
going. He knows everything. Here is a religion which suffers from want
to modesty.

Semitic religions cannot do without Satan. They also need pagans and
infidels. Octavio Paz writes: "Tyrannies and despotisms need the
threat of an out-side enemy to justify their rule. When such an enemy
does not exist, they invent one. "The Jews invented Satan. The
Muslims invented the kafir. And the communists invented the
"bourgeoisie."

The Jewish and Islamic gods are punishing gods. Einstein says: A
punishing and rewarding god is no God. Although Jesus made his God a
loving and caring one, the Church found a punishing God useful to
terrorise the Christian flock into submission. The inquisition
perfected torture.

The Islam world is restive. It wants to go back to the desert from
where it came and to the ways of the Prophet of Islam. The desert is
symbolic. Of nothingness! They call it Nizam-e-Mustafa.

If Muslims prefer the desert life, it is up to them. But they have no
business to turn the world into a desert. We have no desire for a
desert life.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Baseball Players, Yes - Castro No !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ddf17b29dfecda8
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 9:09 pm
From: Seneca

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:28:03 -0800, Miguel <michaelgayoso1948@msn.com>
wrote:

> Senecon.
>
> Nadie tiene nada en contra de los peloteros cubanos. Ellos son
> victimas del castro-fascismo como el resto del pueblo de Cuba. Quizas
> ellos tengan unos cuantos
> "perks" que el 99% de los cubanos no tienen. Sin embargo, aunque los
> esbirros extranjeros del tirano, degenerados como tu, no lo sepan: No
> solo de pan vive el hombre.

Yullesky Gurriel dijo en una entrevista frente los miles de dolares que
le ofrecen los yanquis "Quiero jugar por mi pais." No solo de pan vive el
hombre, ese es el hombre nuevo de Cuba.

El pelotero Contreras que deserto ahora esta llorando por jugar con Cuba!
Tiene chavos pero perdio su alma.

> Seneca wrote:
>> In Puerto Rico, we gave the Cuba team a wondeful welcome which led
>> Yullesky Gurriel to say that he could feel the Puerto Rican love for
>> Cuba.
>> Our courageous sports leaders, both in baseball and the Olimpic Team
>> told
>> the United States, when they tried to exclude the Cuban team, that if
>> Cuba
>> did not play they would cance the hosting of the Classic in Puerto Rico.
>>
>> Cuba and Puerto Rico so de un pajaro las dos alas...
>
> Tienes razon. Pero las alas son de luibertad y no de esclavitud
> castro-fascista..
>>
>>
>> It was fascinating to see the gusano exiles swearing at the Cuban team
>> from the bleachers and to hear the deafening boo of the more than
>> 19,000
>> Boricuas. The crwo roared in disgust everytiem the gusanos interrupted
>> the
>> game.
>>
>> Asi no se gana amigos . . .
>
> De que hablas mequetrefe?
>>
>> No te vistas gusanito que no vas . . . fi you are so brave, get on a
>> boat
>> and lan in bahia de cochino, Again!!!!
>
> Que guapo eres! Y por que tu no convences, por medio del voto, a que
> los puertorrique~nos voten por la independencia? Tienes la oportunidad
> de cambiar se sistema si asi lo desean. El pueblo de Cuba no tiene esa
> oportunidad. Si la tuviera, hace rato que hubiera sacado de paticas
> para la calle a los esbirros de la tirania.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:36:46 -0800, PM <pedro1940@progression.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > For Immediate Release En Español Abajo
>> >
>> > Press Release
>> >
>> > This Saturday, March 18, 2006, an International Protest will take
>> place
>> > at
>> > several locations in the United States, including Miami, FL, as well
>> as
>> > in
>> > Puerto Rico, Uruguay, Spain, France, Holland, Germany, and elsewhere,
>> > against the frequent and violent repression of Cuban dissidents and
>> > opposers
>> > of the Castro regime, routinely carried out by agents of the regime.
>> >
>> > Vigilia Mambisa will participate on Saturday, at noon, at SW 8th
>> Street
>> > and
>> > 36th Avenue, Miami, FL, for the purpose of supporting the
>> International
>> > Protest against the Castro regime, as well as protesting the presence
>> of
>> > the
>> > Castro-Cuban baseball team in California, USA.
>> >
>> > We will have signs reading
>> > "Baseball Players, Yes - Castro No !!!
>> >
>> >
>> > and others supporting the subject of the International Protest.
>> >
>> > The time for Cuba's freedom has come!
>> >
>> > Miguel Saavedra, President
>> > Vigilia Mambisa
>> > 326-9986
>> >
>> > ************************
>> >
>> > Nota de Prensa
>> >
>> > Este sábado, el 18 de marzo, 2006, se lleva a cabo una Protesta
>> > Internacional en varios sitios de los Estados Unidos, incluso en
>> Miami,
>> > así
>> > como en Puerto Rico, Uruguay, España, Francia, Holanda, Alemania, y
>> otros
>> > paises, contra la frecuente represión violenta llevada a cabo
>> > rutinariamente
>> > por agentes del régimen de Castro en contra de disidentes y opositores
>> > del
>> > régimen
>> >
>> > Vigilia Mambisa participará este sábado, a las doce del mediodía, en
>> la
>> > SW 8
>> > Calle y la 36 Avenida, Miami, FL, para apoyar la Protesta
>> > Internacionalcontr
>> > el régimen de Castro, así como para protestar la presencia en
>> California,
>> > EEUU, del equipo de pelota castrocomunista, con los lemas: "Peloteros
>> Sí
>> > -
>> > Castro No- Abajo Fidel", y otros lemas en apoyo del propósito de la
>> > Protesta
>> > Internacional.
>> >
>> > ¡Para Cuba Ya Es Hora!
>> >
>> > Miguel Saavedra, Presidente
>> > Vigilia Mambisa
>> > 326-9986
>> >
>> > --
>> > CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
>> >
>> http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm
>> >
>> > HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
>> > http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm
>> >
>> > Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in
>> the
>> > cold war:
>> > www.cubaverdad.net
>> >
>> > http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Maoist planted Varanasi Bombs"- Say Pakis
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d4e7ca1826b1219f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 19 2006 9:19 pm
From: "Mirza Ghalib"

I knew it. Another link in the chain of crimes committed by Hindus on
other
Hindus, like burning the Godhra bogey, the Chattisinghpura massacre,
all
the way back to destruction of Nalanda.

The following is the reply to a Dawn editorial revealing that Maoists
did the bombing.
===================================================
VARANASI BOMBS

Letter in Dawn, Mar 20

IT IS simply incredible that you could come to the conclusion that the
recent bomb blasts in Benaras were the handiwork of Maoists in India
(editorial, March 9).

The Maoists have been around for about 50 years. A majority of them are
Hindu peasants and do not have a history of planting bombs much less a
bomb in a sacred temple in Benaras. Yes, you may claim that the recent
attack in Chattisgarh gives you proof that Maoists have attacked and
killed civilians; however those that were killed were part of a village
level militia that the Maoists saw as a threat, and that's it.

SID REDDY Via email

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