Freetalk about USA culture: 24 new messages in 19 topics

The culture of the United States of America.

03/19/06 / 03/20/06 / 03/21/06 / 03/22/06 / 03/23/06 / 03/24/06 /

Friday, March 24, 2006

24 new messages in 19 topics - digest ==>Read...

soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Armenians More Guilty, or How The Propaganda Works - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fa9d02a3c3377330
* A land the Pallies can call their own - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/25f5f3fa499c2124
* POLL -- To Impeach or Not To Impeach - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a109c004a3a49ce1
* ISALAM HAS BEEN ABROGATED BY RETURN OF THE MADHI - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d70dd183d66a1313
* Consumers are bracing for the new AT&T - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/289b35b54c526254
* ZIONIST SNITCHES, BEWARE OF THEIR STINK! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9f50fa387ca96efe
* How Muslims make ends meet - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/94c765f451c7bf9a
* Three Ways to Remember Rachel - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6f69fcc00c58349
* N.Korea: Pre-emptive Attacks Can Go Both Ways - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51baedf3751506b1
* ONE TORTURE VICTIM AT A TIME! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/dfebeb41e519401a
* Hu's visit to the USA ....to be cancelled or postponed ? - 2 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/dc57d1554f400f9c
* IT WAS STAGED, ALLRIGHT! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a913d82cf7216e85
* A magic wand called voting -- May be less check and balance is better - 5
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e6acbe037ee43340
* Turkish Regime Arrests Kurdish Leader In Hakkari - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/38273c102a6ad7d6
* We're FRICKED, peoplez !!!!!!!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6b3ac486f8a62a5e
* El Sanaco sez I`m a Kagastro`s whore! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ddf17b29dfecda8
* More than 100 suspected illegal immigrants found in 8 traffic incidents - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7338c9a79b60b67e
* The Left Creates Poverty and Misery - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d4aeaf6ab8e9bedc
* Mike Wallace does not even deserve to be in the same room with President GW
Bush! Let alone shake his hand! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/64c77b490599ab19

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Armenians More Guilty, or How The Propaganda Works
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fa9d02a3c3377330
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 7:46 pm
From: uhu@topkale.net

http://www.armenianreality.com/comments/Armenians_Suffering_or_Genocide.htm
Visit http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/

Armenians: Suffering or Genocide?

by "Holdwater"
Jan 17, 2006 (Global Politician)

A typical example by which the hotly debated topic of whether Armenians
suffered from a genocide either centers heavily on the claims of the
Armenian side of the story, or reporters safely cover themselves by
presenting the issue as what "Turks" say and what "Armenians" say.
Readers should not care what either side has to say; the only thing
that matters is what really happened? And the way to get at the truth
is to rely especially on sources from that period that would have had
no reason to be untruthful. Test

Once a world power, the Muslim Turks always have carried a stigma; it
was very easy for early 20th century Westerners to harbor religious and
racial prejudices toward the "Unspeakable" Turk. Edward Said put it
well in 1978's "Orientalism": "The terror inspired by the
Turkish name among all the European peoples was largely responsible for
the widely spread popular belief that the Turks were a race of
uncivilized barbarians who, wherever they went, left nothing but
smoking ruins behind them and stamped out every vestige of
civilization"; such resulted in "a state of mind which rendered
them for the most part incapable of viewing Turkey and the Turks with
an objective and unbiased eye."

As a result, we have pro-Armenian spokesmen like pthe reacher's son
President Woodrow Wilson, who forewarned his intentions in 1912 as:
"There ain't going to be no Turkey." Ambassador Henry Morgenthau wrote
a book stating the Turks were unlike any other people, cowardly,
inferior, primitive, and a "strange human species." Theodore Roosevelt,
a firm believer in the virtues of the "white race," hated the Turks so
passionately, he bellowed: "Spain and Turkey are the two powers I would
rather smash than any in the world." Zealous Christian missionaries
formed the backbone of claims within the British "Blue Book," the basic
foundation of today's genocidal evidence and a byproduct of
Wellington House, Britain's war propaganda division. Even the Germans
had contempt for their allies, the "alien" Turks, and their
centuries-old aversion was not going to be superseded by wartime
loyalty.

These are the sources we often hear about, people who were almost never
in the interior witnessing the events firsthand. Foreign consuls were
stationed in some posts, but they employed Armenians who usually told
them a select version of events that were readily accepted. If any
diplomats saw anything, like Consul Leslie Davis, it was suffering.
Suffering and death in a land were everyone was suffering and dying.
(Davis wrote, for example, that bread was almost unobtainable since the
start of the war. The epidemics of disease were so disastrous, General
Harbord believed 600,000 Turkish soldiers succumbed to typhus alone.)

Of the Turkish claims, what has come to be known as what "the Turkish
government says" (in a deceptive effort to make it appear that only the
Turkish government claims there was no genocide), what are the sources
that are often used? Generally, few Turkish sources are utilized, other
than internal Ottoman documents not intended for public relations
purposes; Western sources are mainly referred to, and these may be
classified as pro-Armenian, since few Westerners were raised with a
fondness for Turks.

For example, Mary Graffam, a missionary who was actually allowed to
accompany Armenians as they embarked on what pro-Armenians would call a
"death march" (in itself evidence disproving an extermination attempt;
Hitler allowed no hostile foreign observers into Auschwitz to see what
was going on) privately wrote in 1915 that the government was not to
blame and that "Most of the higher officials are at their wits end to
stop these abuses and carry out the orders which they have received,
but this is a flood and it carries all before it." That was a perfect
description of events. (Graffam would "revise" her views years later,
perhaps because there was a Christian agenda to serve, and money to
raise.)

A genocide book edited by J. Winter ("America and the Armenian
Genocide of 1915") claims there was only one American reporter who
witnessed events firsthand in the Ottoman interior, in 1915. Much is
made of the fact that the Western press published sensational atrocity
stories (the New York Times, for example, printed 145 "genocide" tales
in 1915 alone; the newspaper's publisher, interestingly, was a close
friend of Morgenthau's), but no one stops to consider all of the
information was received secondhand by bigoted or propagandistic
sources. (The objective of the British, the provider of much of this
information, was to get the USA into the war; Wellington House actually
had a branch on U.S. soil.) The sole journalistic eyewitness: George
Schreiner, who saw the suffering and the dead, but concluded there was
no genocide. ("...Turkish ineptness, more than intentional brutality,
was responsible for the hardships the Armenians were subjected to.")

Genocide can only be proven if there is "intent." There have been many
theories as to why the bankrupt Ottomans would suddenly spend much
needed money and resources to transport hundreds of thousands of
Armenians, in an attempt to exterminate them while their nation,
besieged by superpowers, was in danger of extinction. None are logical;
the Armenians, who enjoyed "internal autonomy," as Prof. Richard
Hovannisian has written, were known as the Loyal Nation for centuries,
and prospered greatly within the Ottoman Empire. During the war, there
was a life and death struggle to attend to, and the Armenians made the
economic and other societal wheels spin. Undertaking a calamitous
disruption of the nation's operation would have made no sense, when
survival was at stake.

C. F. Dixon-Johnson put it plainly in 1916's "The Armenians":
"The Turks had just sustained in the Caucasus a severe defeat. They
needed every available man and every round of ammunition to check the
advancing Russians. It is therefore incredible that without receiving
any provocation they should have chosen that particularly inopportune
moment to employ a large force of soldiers and gendarmes with artillery
to stir up a hornet's nest in their rear. Military considerations
alone make the suggestion absurd."

There was one and only one reason why the Armenians were relocated, and
even Armenia's first prime minister, Hovhannes Katchaznouni, spelled
it out in 1923: "The proof is, however - and this is essential -
that the struggle begun decades ago against the Turkish government
brought about the deportation or extermination of the Armenian people
in Turkey and the desolation of Turkish Armenia. This was the terrible
fact!"

After forty-odd years of terror in which Ku Klux Klan-type Armenian
groups massacred innocents in hopes of inciting the same and getting
the Europeans to intervene (by the late 19th century, imperialists were
circling to get in on their share of the Sick Man's pie), the whole of
the Armenian community had turned against their nation. Thousands of
Armenian men were armed and ready to hit the Ottoman armies from behind
the lines when war struck; thousands more joined the enemy.

One report among many: "The Armenians of Deurt-yol are now well armed
with modern rifles, every male adult having one in his possession."
>From British Consul Fontana to his government, on Oct. 21, 1913... two
years before the war.

As Armenian historian Akaby Nassibian tells us, the Armenians were
offered actual autonomy by the Turks in 1914 Erzurum, if they would
only do their duty as loyal Ottoman citizens. The Dashnak committees
agreed (as far as being loyal citizens, and not to stir
Russian-Armenians, as they had given their word in 1907), but took a
better deal from the Russians, not keeping in mind the many times the
Russians had broken their promises to the Armenians and would prove to
do so again. When Russia declared war on November 2 of that year, the
New York Times featured an article on November 7 reporting: "ARMENIANS
FIGHTING TURKS; Besieging Van-Others operating in Turkish Army's
Rear."

After six months of treacherous Armenian betrayal from all over the
beleaguered empire, and fighting powerful enemies on multiple fronts,
the Ottoman leaders first considered how to resolve the very dangerous
factor of Armenian rebellion, with a May 2, 1915 telegram. Enver Pasha
wanted to truly "deport" the Armenians out of the country, as the
Russians had been doing with hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims.
The government instead opted to temporarily resettle the Armenians to
another area of the nation until the danger had diminished. (Exactly as
Americans had done with their Japanese and the French had done with
their Alsatians, during WWII, with the difference that these people
were loyal.) Orders were signed to safeguard the Armenians and their
properties. As often happens with colossal tasks needing to be
undertaken at the last minute, and especially with limited resources,
things went wrong. Local Turks, lawless bands, and revengeful Kurds
preyed on some Armenians who were being transported. (Those who had a
railway system to make use of were unmolested.) The vast majority of
those who died, however, succumbed to famine and disease, the causes
that claimed the lives of the 2.5 million or so Turkish mortality.

Were the Armenians "exterminated"? The Armenian Patriarch's figures can
never be taken at face value, as the Patriarch has been known to
"exaggerate" (at the 1878 Berlin Congress, for example, the Patriarch
claimed there were 3 million Ottoman-Armenians, a figure quickly
downgraded to 1,780,000; in 1886, a Patriarchate member, Vahan
Vardapet, estimated 1,263,900 Gregorians, getting closer to the truth).
The reasonable pre-war median from "neutral" sources (such as the 1911
Encyclopedia Britannica) worked out to 1.5 million. (The Ottoman
census: 1.3 million. Wellington House writer Arnold Toynbee the year
before he became a propagandist: 1.2 million.) The Patriarch
"exaggerated" again, with 2.1 million.

We know something is wrong with this figure, because German missionary
Johannes Lepsius stated "under oath" (at the 1921 trial for the
assassin of Talat Pasha) that the Patriarch had provided him with
1,850,000 as the total. (And there is something wrong with that figure
as well, since Armenian historian Kevork Aslan, almost certainly
utilizing Patriarchate figures, offered a total of 1.8 million.)
Lepsius provides a difference of 250,000. If we subtract that
difference from the total the Patriarch claimed (as provided by the
Peace Conference's Armenian Delegation, at war's end) for the dead
(840,000), we can see less than 600,000 died. The Patriarch (through
the Delegation) claimed a total of 1,260,000 had survived (that is, the
remainder of 2.1 million) in what was left of the Empire, in late 1918.
(Even the more extreme Armenian scholars today concede one million
survived.)

The majority of Armenians had survived, based on a highly biased
Armenian source. This is why Armenians managed to work their worldwide
numbers from around 3 million (which took them over 2,500 years to
reach) to some 7 million, in only ninety years, while mostly dispersed.
(The 3 million is pre-war, not accounting for the mortality that took
place.)

The 1919-20 Ottoman trials were carried out under a puppet
administration, the legality for which was akin to Vichy courts under
Nazi occupation; the Allies threatened their Turkish lackeys to come up
with culprits for the massacres, otherwise treatment at the Peace
Conference would be harsh. Legal standards were so deplorable, the
British rejected the findings of these kangaroo courts in their own
planned Malta Tribunal, the true counterpart for Nuremberg. No evidence
could be found, even in the "last resort" for the British, the archives
of the 1921 U.S. State Department. Every Ottoman prisoner held,
numbering 144 at one point, was set free. This should have settled the
matter in a just world.

200,000 for the number of Armenian dead in the mid-1890s is the
propagandistic counterpart of the "1.5 million" killed we hear
regarding "1915." The truth is probably closer to one-tenth of that
figure (Ottoman numbers added up to 13,432), and no nation reserving
the right to put down rebellions should be accused of "massacres." In
1958's "A History of Armenia," Vahan Kurkjian concluded a still
exaggerated 100,000, further informing us the William
Gladstone-influenced British recorded 63,000 in their Blue Book.

The highly anti-Turkish Lepsius offered 88,243 for the total. Lepsius
also stated 6,000 had been massacred in the 1895 Zeitun rebellion. Yet
the leader of that very rebellion, Aghasi, wrote in his diary that the
Turks had lost 20,000 and the Armenians lost only 125 men. To get an
idea of the inflation, those figures bear repeating: 6,000 vs. 125.

What is never mentioned in our prejudiced world is that some 5,000
Muslims were killed during the mid-1890s (Aghasi had "exaggerated" with
20,000 for only one rebellion in 1895 alone), and most of these people
were truly victims of massacres.

Are we getting the picture that those who write about this historical
event scarcely bother to scratch the surface?

It is easy to believe these claims, for the pro-Armenians have been
allowed to present their propaganda almost unilaterally, and the
Armenians are portrayed as poor, innocent Christian martyrs while the
Turks fulfill their familiar role as savages. Where are the deeper
thinkers, like Prof. John Dewey, who wrote in a 1928 New Republic
article ("The Turkish Tragedy") that the Armenians "boasted of having
raised an army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil
war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and
exterminated their population." We have the Internet now; it's not
difficult to conduct research and get a closer idea of what really
happened.

predominant population of the Balkans before this policy of "Death and
Exile" (a highly recommended 1995 book by that name was written by
Prof. Justin McCarthy) was Muslim. In the century ending around WWI,
5.5 million Muslims were killed through such savagery, and an
additional 5 million were expelled. The Turks are the ones who suffered
a true Holocaust, and the Western world couldn't care less.

As a dramatic example, William Gladstone viciously helped turn Western
opinion against the Turks, with his 1876 "Bulgarian Horrors"
pamphlet. As the Armenians, the Bulgarians had rebelled; their toll was
10,000-15,000. By contrast, the Turkish/Muslim dead amounted to some
260,000, and the exiled was over half a million. Even today, hardly
anyone from the Western world acknowledges the much higher suffering of
the latter group, least of all "genocide scholars."

Armenians such as Dro, Antranik, Keri, Garo, Murad and others brutally
murdered more Ottoman Muslims (during and after WWI) than the
comparatively small number of Armenians (probably in the low 10s of
thousands, and almost certainly not exceeding 50,000; in 1977, the
French newspaper "Le Figaro" estimated 15,000, and these took into
account sickness and other deprivation on the march, not just
"murder") who were massacred by Muslims. It is difficult to find
Western corroboration, since Muslims were not regarded as equal human
beings. One exception is the British colonel, Wooley, as recorded in
the U.S. Archives; he estimated 300,000-400-000 Ottoman Muslims (Kurds)
were killed by Armenians; and that was only from two Ottoman districts.
Ottoman records, never meant to be publicized, present the final tally
at over half a million. (These included non-Muslims as well, like the
Jews, and even Greeks. The idea was to "purify" the hoped for
"Greater Armenia," where Armenians lacked a plurality.) What
comprises today's Armenia once had a Muslim majority, and "Death &
Exile" is the way Armenia became Muslim-free. (As the CIA Fact Book
makes evident, the nation is currently some 98% "pure.")

Armenia demonstrated this favored tactic in 1992, massacring Azeri
civilians and scaring what many say is close to a million from
Karabakh. Many Azeris are reportedly still languishing in refugee
camps, and mum is the word with the biased West. Why are the Armenians
never condemned by the genocide community? (The reader gets one gue$$.)

In order to stifle debate, the pro-Armenians, including their terribly
hypocritical "genocide scholar" allies (the counterpart to yesterday's
missionaries, both groups representing "good" on the surface, and
therefore not expected to "exaggerate"), have resorted to highly
underhanded tactics. Those such as Israel Charny have accused objective
academicians as selling out to "Turkey," by pointing to grants some
have received. (One of the two organizations cited was the "American
Research Institute," which sounds independent of the Turkish
government. "The Institute for Turkish Studies" in Washington was the
other.) One professor was such a target of a media-covered smear
campaign, he was evidently subjected to a gag order by his university.
The message was sent to others who might dare disagree with genocide
forces in the future. No academician can allow their precious
reputations to get stained by powerful ideologues. Now that the
pro-Armenians had a clear field again (news reporting organizations
began dropping the word "alleged," before "genocide"), the time
arrived to get politicians to vote for genocide resolutions, in order
to legislate what cannot be proven historically; every congressperson
from California (with a sizeable Armenian population) supported a
recent bill. Some European nations have made it illegal to state there
was no genocide; one noted professor was actually taken to court in
France. Another, the aforementioned Justin McCarthy, is currently being
threatened.

These forces are doing their utmost to continue spreading the poison
carried over by 19th century racism, targeting an ethnic group that has
a very limited voice in the West. Journalists mindlessly rely on the
established propaganda (which John Dewey warned Americans should no
longer be deceived by... over three-quarters of a century ago), thereby
producing new propaganda. The result has nothing to do with truth and
justice, and a lot to do with hatred, bigotry and pain.

"Holdwater" operates www.tallarmeniantale.com.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A land the Pallies can call their own
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/25f5f3fa499c2124
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 7:55 pm
From: "dr.benway@ziplip.com"

Not for long!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: POLL -- To Impeach or Not To Impeach
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a109c004a3a49ce1
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 8:01 pm
From: "Missy"

NEWSGROUP POLL QUESTION

Are you one of the 26% of American adults who currently believe that
Bush should be impeached for his crimes against America?

1. Yes

2. No

3. Undecided

If not, why not?

If undecided, what more evidence do you need?

soc.culture.usa readers, thank you for your time in answering
this poll.

--
Missy

It only takes one seven-letter word:

http://TheBlogettes.com
We're Smart. We're Sexy.
And We're Successful.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ISALAM HAS BEEN ABROGATED BY RETURN OF THE MADHI
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d70dd183d66a1313
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 8:10 pm
From: "Spot On!"

a poster writes:

"I support the light of God which shone in all the great minds
inspired by Christ, Mahommed (PBUH), Zoroaster, Brahma...
the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Guru Nanak, the Saints and the prophets..
not the darkness of ignorance which fills the hearts of
some who claim to follow their teachings, but lack the spirit."

I looked up the Bab (Ali Muhammad of Iran) and found that in 1844 he
declared his mission and that his followers believed him to be the
Madhi (return of the 12th Imam that many were expecting).

At a Conference in 1848 the Babi religion announced that Islam was
abrogated and their books closed.

Bab means Gate. Based on the teaching of the Mahdi Muslims should be
moving forward into some kind of new enlightenment. Probably a good
idea for all religions and peoples of the earth.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Consumers are bracing for the new AT&T
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/289b35b54c526254
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 8:12 pm
From: rzorto90@yahoo.com

jdoe wrote:

>
> don't confuse the liberloon with facts, more proof that they will say
> anything, do anything, confuse anything to further their anti US anti
> bush agenda

Hey jdoe, why do you have to try so hard to display your utter
ignorance and digusting arrogance in public? Given the fact that your
mind is polluted with right-wing extremist propaganda, you shouldn't be
spilling out your polluted garbages here and elswhere where logic,
truth, and rational thinking are valued.

With people like you, no wonder the US is in deep doo-doos.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ZIONIST SNITCHES, BEWARE OF THEIR STINK!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9f50fa387ca96efe
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 11:21 pm
From: "serwad"

Zionists Now Watch High Schools

From grammar school kids being forced to read Anne Frank, to the lynching
of the Tampa professor, to the Columbia Three, and now these greasy vampires
have their claws in high schools. The only place you don't find these people
is serving in Iraq.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How Muslims make ends meet
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/94c765f451c7bf9a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 11:25 pm
From: Bill 2

K James wrote:
>
> How Muslims make ends meet
> Stephen Womack, Mail on Sunday
> 22 March 2006
>
> BRITAIN'S 2m Muslims face an ethical dilemma when managing money. Current accounts, credit cards, loans and mortgages
> all involve the payment of interest - which is forbidden by the Koran.

Say no more. That explains everything, the poverty, all of it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Three Ways to Remember Rachel
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6f69fcc00c58349
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 8:25 pm
From: "docremington"

clifffreeling@yahoo.com wrote:
> AnonMoos wrote:
> > clifffreeling@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > ------------------- "Don't worry about American pressure on
> > > Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans
> > > know it." ----Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 2001
> >
> > That's appropriate for a bigot like you -- use a fabricated phoney
> > lying quote as your sig!
>
> It's a well authenticated quote, but you know that don't you liar.
> Google it yourself to cure your amnesia, bigot.
> "Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We,
> the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
> ----Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 2001
>

It is a bogus quote from Oct. 3, 2001, press-release of the US-based
pro-hamas "Islamic Association for Palestine".

==============================================================================
TOPIC: N.Korea: Pre-emptive Attacks Can Go Both Ways
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51baedf3751506b1
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 4:29 am
From: Tank Fixer

In article <128122hvhdktrsltov3bnpkvu46luno46q@4ax.com>,
on Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:55:11 -0800,
Nick James no@ddress.here attempted to say .....

> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:48:28 -0800, Peter Franks <none@none.com> wrote:
>
> >Do you know what the optimal elevation for the detonation of a nuclear
> >device is?
>
> Optimal???
> LOL!
> Who cares.
> I'm still going to enjoy watching it in High Def.

You won't get to see that much.
The EMP will toast your fancy TV a millisecond before your condo implodes and
you get turned into a cinder.

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ONE TORTURE VICTIM AT A TIME!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/dfebeb41e519401a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 11:42 pm
From: "serwad"

Democratizing The World -
One Torture Victim At A Time

By Jason Miller
3-24-6

Analysis of the Long, Repulsive History of the United States
Inflicting Torture on Its "Suspected Enemies" (in Conjunction with a Review
of A Question of Torture by Alfred W. McCoy)

Psychological torture, sleep deprivation, brutality, severe sexual
humiliation, and murder summon visions of a dank dungeon in a remote region
of pre-invasion Iraq, Iran, or North Korea, replete with evil inquisitors
and hooded executioners. However, those manifestations of horror did not
spring forth from the Axis of Evil. They are actually drawn from official
post-9/11 US policy. Despite its fabled commitment to human rights, the
United States government has been committing and enabling acts of torture
for half a century. Not even Superman had the power to snatch "Truth,
Justice and the American Way" from the crushing jaws of imperialistic
ambition and avarice.

Ironically titled, Albert McCoy's A Question of Torture probes and
exposes the extent of "the Land of the Free's" involvement in human torture
over the years. Only a mainstream media 90% controlled by five major
corporations (whose executives and major stockholders are amongst the de
facto rulers of the America's so-called republic) could so effectively
maintain the illusion that the United States is the world leader in
protecting human rights. Somewhere out there, David Copperfield is burning
with envy. Rest easy, David. They are running out of magic. Destroying our
Constitution and reversing the humanitarian gains achieved by millions of
Americans with a social conscience throughout our nation's history , the
Bush Regime is extinguishing the candle of hope America once offered to
humanity. Despite the exhaustive efforts of the media handmaidens, people
are taking notice.

Painstakingly slow ascent....high velocity decline

From our nation's birth, many fine Americans labored vigorously to
attain a higher moral plane by ending slavery and advancing the rights of
children, minorities, women, and workers. Contrary to the fairy tale of
America's benevolent government "of the people", many amongst the plutocracy
and emerging corporatocracy fought the American evolution of human rights
tooth and nail. Rumsfeld, Gonzales, and company have taken that resistance
to new heights and are plunging the United States into an abyss of evil, at
home and abroad. Minority Americans, Native Americans, and citizens of other
nations have been aware of this descent for years, even before the Neocon
catalyzed acceleration. However, as the ruthlessly brazen disciples of
Strauss have fervently attacked human rights, many amongst America's
indoctrinated White working class are smelling the coffee, and it is not the
best part of waking up.

On March 8, 2006, the US State Department released its Country
Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2005, in which it detailed human
rights abuses occurring in over 190 nations. In an act of supreme hypocrisy,
they excluded themselves. As one can readily discern simply from reading
McCoy's expose' of human torture committed by the United States since 1950,
the United States is far from being a bastion of "Life, Liberty, and the
Pursuit of Happiness".

"Torture is evil, pure and simple," is the powerful lesson Peggy
Piel imparted to her son, Alfred McCoy. Having spent a year of her childhood
in Nazi Germany, this erudite Jewish American knew a bit about the subject
of torture. Despite his mother's moralistic viewpoint, McCoy penned his
examination of the history of torture committed and facilitated by the
United States in a detached, analytical manner, without imposing a moral
judgment. Noting over 30 pages of sources, McCoy meticulously researched his
chilling glimpse into America's Heart of Darkness, yet still maintained
relative objectivity. No easy task in light of the virtually countless
egregious violations of human rights and acts of murder committed by the
American Empire and its proxies.

Abu Gharib was simply a sign of a "few bad apples"....or was it?

In 1950, the intelligence organization of the "leader of the free
world" began to take a strong interest in research involving psychological
torture.

McCoy summarizes:

"From 1950 to 1962, the CIA became involved in torture through a
massive mind-control effort, with psychological warfare and secret research
into human consciousness that reached a cost of a billion dollars annually-a
veritable Manhattan Project of the mind."

While the United States was trumpeting its deep devotion to
universal human rights, the CIA was busily developing and funding research
to yield "new and improved" torture tactics with which they could extract
information from Cold War enemies. Utilizing its unique capacity to wield
tremendous power clandestinely, the United States' intelligence juggernaut
infiltrated and exploited hospitals, divisions of the military, and
universities to enable its research.

Many of the nauseating acts of inhumanity depicted in the Abu Gharib
photos reflect the rotten fruits of CIA labors. Years of study and
experimentation determined that torture involving physical pain lacked
efficacy. The CIA found that strong subjects usually responded by stiffening
their resistance and weaker ones often gave false information just to end
the pain. Psychological torture, including sensory deprivation, sensory
disorientation, assault on personal identity and self-inflicted pain
appeared to provide a much richer yield of information. The Abu Gharib
photos are a window through which one can view the CIA-created world of
psychological torture. Hooding, stress positions, extreme intimidation with
ferocious dogs (for which a soldier was convicted on 3/21), and sexual
humiliation are recurring images in the Abu Gharib pictures and are powerful
examples of CIA torture protocol. Other techniques of psychological torture
the US military and CIA have used on detained suspects in the "War on
Terror" are sleep deprivation, isolation, and dietary manipulation. As the
Command Responsibility report by Human Rights First indicates, 45 detainees
in the US "War on Terror" have been murdered or have died as a result of
physical abuse. As McCoy argues, there is a fine line between psychological
torture and physical torture, and as the American Gulag has demonstrated,
torturers usually cross that line.

As an aside, it is important to remember that there are currently
over 14,000 "suspected terrorists" or "enemy combatants" in US custody.
These individuals have been charged with no crime and have been denied due
process. Guilty until proven innocent. Now that is justice the American way.
Abu Gharib is only an aberration because the torturers were caught.
Inflicting severe psychological and mental anguish on suspected enemies of
the Empire is now official policy and has taken place at Bagram Air Base,
Camp Cropper, Guantanamo Bay and throughout the American Gulag. As for the
McCain Anti-Torture Law, Bush and his fellow war criminals are already
inventing ways to circumvent it.

Abu Gharib is simply a public display of the psychological and
physical torture the CIA has been implementing and practicing for years.
From1962 to 1974, the CIA sharpened its talons through a federal entity
called the Office of Public Safety, a branch of US AID. According to McCoy,
the OPS trained one million police officers in 47 countries. Not
surprisingly, it was not long before these same law enforcement entities
began committing severe human right rights abuses and acts of torture.

"Practice makes perfect"

It was morally repugnant enough that the United States killed three
million Vietnamese civilians in their imperialistic escapade into Southeast
Asia, euphemistically labeling them as "collateral damage". However, McCoy
describes torture policies and techniques which resulted in the murder of
tens of thousands more Vietnamese. The Phoenix program was implemented by
the CIA to eradicate the Vietcong underground. Under CIA administration and
supervision, the PRUs (aka Provincial Interrogation Centers) of the Phoenix
program degenerated into a collection of South Vietnamese murderers, thugs
and criminals who accepted bribes, presumed guilt based on gossip, and
murdered their detainees after they completed their interrogation.
Ultimately, (if one is gullible enough to take the word of former CIA
director William Colby), the Phoenix program murdered 20,587 "Vietcong".
Saigon's government puts the figure at 40,994.

Educating them on the finer points of torture and murder

The CIA also bears responsibility for the creation of SAVAK, the
Shah of Iran's ruthless secret police force. SAVAK killed 20,000 Iraqi
"dissidents" during the Shah's reign. In the Philippines, CIA instruction
resulted in 3,257 murders and 35,000 victims of torture by the Ferdinand
Marcos regime.

After its defeat in Vietnam, the United States government
infiltrated Latin America with a vengeance (to stop the spread of the
"Communist threat"). Project X, represented another CIA endeavor to impart
their wisdom in the arts of torture to ruthless US allies Not satisfied with
their 1963 torture manual called Kubark, the CIA wrote a sequel in Spanish
entitled Handling of Sources, Interrogation, Combat Intelligence, and
Terrorism and the Urban Guerilla.

Of the sequel, McCoy writes,

"Apart from these cold-blooded tactics of kidnapping, murder,
beatings, and betrayal, the manual evidences, in its 144 single-spaced
pages, an amorality, a studied willingness to exploit an ally without
restraint or compunction, hardened on the anvil of the Vietnam conflict."

Once located in Panama, an odious US Army institution known as the
School of Americas (sometimes called the School of Assassins) bestowed the
CIA's torture wisdom upon hundreds of Latin American military officers. The
School of Americas fell under the auspices of Project X and provided the
"hands on" training to accompany the CIA torture manuals. Interestingly, by
1983 the CIA had begun to re-emphasize the use of psychological over
physical torture when it wrote its Human Resource Exploitation Training
Manual. A laundry list of CIA-trained Latin American military personnel and
dictators murdered and tortured hundreds of thousands thanks to the tutelage
of Project X.

Of war crimes, evasion of responsibility and impunity

McCoy notes that the United States took a break and out-sourced
torture to its allies throughout the 1990's. Unfortunately for the world,
the Bush Regime opportunistically seized 9/11 to begin its PNAC inspired
quest for global military dominance. In the process, the administration
implemented torture as official United States policy. Desperately attempting
to fend off critics and preserve the crumbling façade of moral superiority,
America's ruling class has sacrificed several from amongst those near the
bottom of the food chain. However, calling the prosecution and conviction of
a handful of military personnel justice would be a farce. Those ultimately
responsible for America's abject torture continue to act with impunity.

As McCoy has vividly illustrated, America's "grunts" at Abu Gharib
and throughout the American Gulag were acting under the orders of the Bush
Regime and under the supervision of the CIA:

1. On September 11, 2001, George Bush told Donald Rumsfeld and his
staff, "Any barriers in your way, they are gone." When they reminded him of
legal constraints, Bush shouted, "I don't care what the international
lawyers say; we are going to kick some ass."

2. Six days later, Bush authorized the CIA to begin rendition of
terror suspects to nations known to commit torture.

3. On November 13, the President determined that Al Qaeda suspects
would be denied access to domestic or international courts.

4. Close to the end of 2001, Bush's Justice Department approved the
use of "sleep deprivation and deployment of 'stress factors'" for
counter-terror interrogation.

5. Bush decided the Geneva Conventions did not apply to his "War on
Terror" on January 8, 2002.

6. On January 9, 2002, John Woo of the Justice Department crafted a
memo denying application of the Geneva Conventions and the US War Crimes Act
to suspected members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, whom he characterized as
"enemy combatants". Since they were now neither soldier nor citizen, the
articles of the Geneva Convention barring "cruel treatment and torture" and
"humiliating and degrading treatment" did not apply to them (according to
Yoo's perverse logic).

7. As Afghans captured in the "War on Terror" started populating
Guantanamo Bay prison on January 11, Donald Rumsfeld stated that those
"unlawful combatants do not have any rights under the Geneva Convention."

8. On January 18, the man Bush later elevated from White House legal
counsel to Attorney General (for his loyalty to the Empire) informed the
President that the Justice Department "had issued a formal legal opinion
concluding that the Geneva Convention III on the Treatment of Prisoners of
War does not apply to the conflict with Al Qaeda."

9. The following day, Rumsfeld advised his field commanders that "Al
Qaeda and Taliban individuals under the control of the Department of Defense
are not entitled to prisoner of war status for purposes of the Geneva
Conventions of 1949."

10. January 22, 2002: Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee presented
Alberto Gonzales with a 37 page memo which outlined the means to implement
"coercive interrogation" without legal consequences, affirming that "neither
the federal War Crimes Act nor the Geneva Conventions would apply to the
detention conditions of al Qaeda prisoners", and that Bush had the
Constitutional power to suspend US treaties with Afghanistan.

11. Behind the scenes, Bush and Rumsfeld approved an SAP or
"special-access program" within the CIA. By its very nature, only a handful
of top level government officials are aware of the existence of an SAP. This
particular SAP endowed the CIA, Navy Seals, and Army Delta Force with the
power to assassinate, kidnap and, of course, to torture. Concurrently, the
CIA began creating the American Gulag by establishing secret prisons in
places like Diego Garcia Island and Thailand.

12. The Bush administration entrusted the CIA with "operational
command" of its long coveted "War on Terror", which enabled the United
States to abandon FBI and military restrictions on torture.

13. In August of 2002, Bybee, Yoo, and Vice Presidential counsel
David Addington created another Justice Department memo "legitimizing"
torture. Employing reasoning which defied the laws of reality, this trio
determined that federal law and the UN anti-torture conventions only
prohibited torture that was "specifically intended to inflict severe pain or
suffering, whether mental or physical." They concluded that to be a crime,
the torture must "be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying
serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily
function, or even death." Utilizing this memo, the CIA could evade
responsibility for torturing "enemy combatants" simply by claiming they were
attempting to gain information rather than to inflict pain. The memo also
constructed a very strict definition of psychological torture, interpreting
many CIA techniques as legal. Most significantly, in defiance of the Supreme
Court's decision in Youngstown Sheet and Tube et al vs. Sawyer, Bybee and
his cohorts asserted that restraints on Bush's directives to interrogate
would "represent an unconstitutional infringement of the President's
authority to conduct war."

14. At about the same time as the release of the Bybee memo, the
Justice Department gave the CIA classified permission to utilize harsher
interrogation tactics than the military, including water boarding, a
practice which leads the victim to believe they are drowning.

Bush and his murderous cabal gave the authorization, the CIA
provided supervision, and the military carried out the "coercive
interrogation". A Question of Torture sheds significant light on the
culpability of Generals Miller and Sanchez in implementing the policy of
inflicting excruciating psychological and physical pain on "enemy
combatants" throughout the military prison system in Iraq, the nation
America "rescued" from Saddam Hussein. America's leaders condoned torture
and ordered their subordinates to carry it out. In the tradition of monsters
like Pol Pot and Idi Amin, they revel in their endless access to money,
power, and immunity. Small wonder much of the world hates the American
Empire, and its de facto rulers in particular.

Playing with fire

The CIA has repeatedly demonstrated that they are slow learners.
Brutality, abuse, and torture, whether physical or psychological, are not
only gross violations of a person's inalienable human rights; they are
ineffective means of extracting information or modifying behavior. The FBI
is one of the few federal law enforcement or military entities not
implicated in the web of torture emerging in the "War on Terror" and,
according to McCoy's research, its agents' legal, humane interrogation
tactics were yielding respectable results before Bush superseded them with
the CIA.

Besides lacking value beyond its capacity to satisfy a primal urge
for revenge, torture is a double-edged sword which harms both perpetrator
and victim. McCoy points out that committing torture intoxicates one with
power. Organizations and governments engaging in mass torture deteriorate as
the rule of law and respect for humanity disintegrates, breaking down their
political and social structures. Objectifying and inflicting suffering upon
helpless human beings leaves deep scars upon the souls of the torturers and
creates monstrous sociopaths Contrary to the wishful thinking of the Bush
Regime, the United States will reap a bitter harvest once the noxious weeds
of torture grow to maturity.

Realistically, except in the minds of those who tenaciously cling to
their indoctrination from the American Empire, there is no question that the
United States egregiously violates human rights on a frequent basis. For a
more thorough examination of the cancer of torture ravaging the United
States, read A Question of Torture by Alfred McCoy.

_____

Jason Miller is a 39 year old activist writer with a degree in
liberal arts. When he is not spending time with his wife and three sons,
researching, or writing, he is working as a loan counselor. He is a member
of Amnesty International and an avid supporter of Oxfam International and
Human Rights Watch. He welcomes responses at willpowerful@hotmail.com or
comments on his blog, Thomas Paine's Corner, at
http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hu's visit to the USA ....to be cancelled or postponed ?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/dc57d1554f400f9c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 8:56 pm
From: bmoore@nyx.net

OK, I accept that you are right this time. But note that there was not
a formal change in the status. Like, it was going to be a state visit
and then something changed. There was no "downgrading". That's the
point. Hu didn't get "the bad news" that the White House had changed
things. It was in response to a reporter's question and there is no
evidence that it was ever seen as anything but a diplomatic visit. This
is a subtle point so comprehension of it would prove that there is
indeed intelligent life in the universe.

For the record, I think Bush should definitely accept Hu as a head of
state, regardless of what he does with Chen.

Bad boy wrote:
> <bmoore@nyx.net> wrote in message
> news:1143234374.637079.86170@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > Bad boy wrote:
> >> According to the latest report from the White House,
> >> Hu's visit to the USA is to be down graded from a
> >> State visit ...to a non diplomatic visit ...like the visit of
> >> President Chen of Taipei. The White House has told
> >> the world that Hu is to be treated like a lackey...when he
> >> come to the USA.
> >
> > Yeah,...... so I hope you don't mind if I ask
> > you for a cite. Because this "fact" isn't showing up anywhere in the
> > press. Maybe you just imagined it.
>
> On page 19 of Straits Times, (Singapore) under the
> heading "White House vague over the status of
> Hu's visit"....it was reported that --
>
> Quote:
> " When asked if Hu's trip is a state visit, White House
> spokesman, Scott MacClellan said "It is a visit by
> President Hu....."
> "Asked why the trip would not be billed as a state visit,
> NSC spokesman Fred Jones said "Each visit to the White
> House is unique, following a different substantive and
> social format" unquote.
>
> The White House informed the world media
> that Hu's trip will NOT be treated as a state
> visit. (see website below)
>
> Bad boy.
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5299474
> When Is a Visit Not a Visit?
> March 24, 2006 · So President Hu Jintao of China will visit the White House
> in April. But exactly what kind of visit is it? Our man at the White House,
> Don Gonyea, sent me this from this morning's White House gaggle with
> spokesman Scott McClellan. Here's a slightly edited version:
>
> Q: The Chinese say that their president's visit here will be a "state visit"
> and in your announcement it was referred to simply as "a visit." So what
> will be the formal status of the visit?
>
> McClellan: Well, uh, I mean... let me mention a couple of things on that.
> Because I think, I think... when President Hu comes to visit, and each
> visit, in our view, is unique. And my understanding is that when President
> Hu travels to a foreign country... the Chinese refer to that as a state
> visit, but there will be a number of activities that will be taking place...
> He will be accorded full military honors when he comes and... President Hu
> and his wife will be the guests of President and Mrs. Bush for lunch here at
> the White House...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 8:57 pm
From: bmoore@nyx.net

charles_liu@my-deja.com wrote:
> Bad boy wrote:
> > <bmoore@nyx.net> wrote in message
> > news:1143234374.637079.86170@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > > Bad boy wrote:
> > >> According to the latest report from the White House,
> > >> Hu's visit to the USA is to be down graded from a
> > >> State visit ...to a non diplomatic visit ...like the visit of
> > >> President Chen of Taipei. The White House has told
> > >> the world that Hu is to be treated like a lackey...when he
> > >> come to the USA.
> > >
> > > Yeah,...... so I hope you don't mind if I ask
> > > you for a cite. Because this "fact" isn't showing up anywhere in the
> > > press. Maybe you just imagined it.
> >
> > On page 19 of Straits Times, (Singapore) under the
> > heading "White House vague over the status of
> > Hu's visit"....it was reported that --
> >
> > Quote:
> > " When asked if Hu's trip is a state visit, White House
> > spokesman, Scott MacClellan said "It is a visit by
> > President Hu....."
> > "Asked why the trip would not be billed as a state visit,
> > NSC spokesman Fred Jones said "Each visit to the White
> > House is unique, following a different substantive and
> > social format" unquote.
> >
> > The White House informed the world media
> > that Hu's trip will NOT be treated as a state
> > visit. (see website below)
> >
> > Bad boy.
> >
> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5299474

> Good job. Another one of BO's "I know you are, but what am I?"
> backfiring on him.

Jolly good retort, Charles!

> > When Is a Visit Not a Visit?
> > March 24, 2006 · So President Hu Jintao of China will visit the White House
> > in April. But exactly what kind of visit is it? Our man at the White House,
> > Don Gonyea, sent me this from this morning's White House gaggle with
> > spokesman Scott McClellan. Here's a slightly edited version:
> >
> > Q: The Chinese say that their president's visit here will be a "state visit"
> > and in your announcement it was referred to simply as "a visit." So what
> > will be the formal status of the visit?
> >
> > McClellan: Well, uh, I mean... let me mention a couple of things on that.
> > Because I think, I think... when President Hu comes to visit, and each
> > visit, in our view, is unique. And my understanding is that when President
> > Hu travels to a foreign country... the Chinese refer to that as a state
> > visit, but there will be a number of activities that will be taking place...
> > He will be accorded full military honors when he comes and... President Hu
> > and his wife will be the guests of President and Mrs. Bush for lunch here at
> > the White House...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: IT WAS STAGED, ALLRIGHT!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a913d82cf7216e85
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 11:57 pm
From: "serwad"

Iraq: Was rescue of CPT members staged?; New evidence of US atrocities in
Iraq
Truth about Iraqis

March 24, 2006

There are troubling signs that it was staged.

First consider that when British, US and Canadian forces broke into
the house where the CPT members were being held captive, not one shot was
fired.

Not one kidnapper was to be found. The house was empty save for the
three hostages.

No weapons were found.

Were the kidnappers on a lunch break? Maybe a sojourn to Euro Disney.

According to the Toronto Star, "Questions remian about how the rescue
unfolded and the level of Canada's involvement. The fact no kidnappers were
there when the rescuers arrived gave rise to speculation the men were
released as part of a pre-arranged agreement."
Contrary to early reports that an Iraqi detainee had provided
information to the Iraqis, the Toronto Star went on to quote an Iraqi
interior ministry official:

A senior Iraqi interior ministry official, who spoke to the Star on
condition of anonymity, said they had no prior knowledge of the operation to
free the hostages.

"We knew nothing about it," he said. "This was strictly a foreign
intelligence operation involving foreign forces. It came as a complete
surprise."

Did the "foreign forces" silently pay a ransom?

Something was definitely afoot.

Consider the following comment from Canada's Prime Minister, Stephen
Harper:

"We has dome indication that some developments might occur in these
few days," Harper said.

In the same article, we get "But the Washington-based SITE institute,
which monitors extremists' websites, notices a posting yesterday on an
Arabic website that claimed Christian Peacemaker Teams had paid a ransom for
the release."

CPT denied the claim.

Further complicating matters is the statement from one of the three
hostages that Tom Fox had been separated from the group a few weeks ago.

Why?

Canadian media has also reported that Fox may have been killed while
trying to escape.

All shrouded in secrecy, as in the following:

New Evidence of US Atrocities in Iraq

Day after day evidence mounts that the US military in Iraq is
systematically killing the Iraqi people in wanton violence and covering up
for it with lies and media manipulations.

Consider the latest testimony from a US soldier, as quoted by the BBC:

Another veteran, Specialist Jody Casey, who was a scout sniper in
Baquba, said he had also seen innocent civilians being killed.

Bombs "go off and you just zap any farmer that's close to you", he
said.

"At that time, when we first got down there, you could basically
kill anyone you wanted."

Mr Casey said he did not take part in any atrocities himself, but
was advised to always carry a shovel. He could then plant this on any
civilian victims to make it look as though they were digging roadside bombs.
When will this evidence be enough to convince the naysayers of the
crimes against humanity perpetrated by a hostile US occupation in Iraq?

Why are so many US soldiers killing so many innocent Iraqis? Because
they 1) hate Muslims, 2) believe Iraqis brought down the twin towers, 3)
consider Iraqis subhuman (a practise used by the Nazis against the Jews),
and 4) because they can get away with it.

Consider the following from the Honolulu Advertiser:
The Army has discharged without criminal charges a Schofield
Barracks soldier who was involved in the 2004 killing of a 13-year-old girl
and wounding of her sister and mother in Iraq.

A criminal investigation was opened and evidence was reviewed before
the decision by Maj. Gen. Benjamin R. Mixon, the commanding general of the
25th Infantry Division, to approve the discharge of Sgt. Jeffrey D. Waruch,
28, officials said.

"In this case, a review of the investigation determined that no
further evidence was likely to be found that would result in the case going
to trial," Schofield Barracks said in a statement.

The investigation found that Waruch, who was with the 1st Battalion,
27th Infantry Regiment, did not act in a negligent or unlawful manner in the
Feb. 18, 2004 shootings and that there was insufficient evidence to
prosecute, the Army said.

...

In that case, as the three ran from a roadside bomb attack on a U.S.
convoy, 13-year-old Intisar Saleh was shot in the head from a distance of
about 200 feet. Her mother was hit and lost a leg, and Intisar's 15-year-old
sister was shot in the leg.

Waruch said in a statement that he shot the three Iraqis after they
ignored repeated warnings in English and Arabic to stop, suspicious
movements were made, and one appeared to have "something long" that he
believed could have been a weapon.

A review conducted by Maj. Samuel Schubert found that two in the
group of fleeing civilians were surrendering, and that Waruch fired at one
of the females because the civilians made "sudden movements."
This is never going to end.

The US military continues to use the example of Saddam's human rights
record (lack thereof) as an excuse to validate its wholesale murder of the
Iraqi people.

Sickening logic. "Saddam killed you, so can we, please stop
complaining".
Iraqi inspiration quote FROM Fayrouz: I'm more interested in reading
the opinions of Iraqi bloggers than reading the American bloggers analysis
of the siuation. Yes, you can add me to the list of your enemies of all I'm
concerned.

Be sure to check the right-column for updated pictures, links, quotes
and Iraqi Truisms

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A magic wand called voting -- May be less check and balance is better
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e6acbe037ee43340
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 12:59 pm
From: Jim Walsh

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:09:39 +0800, ltlee1 wrote
(in article <1143205779.549019.214720@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):

> In America which claims to be the oldest democracy,

Only an uneducated person would claim that the US is the oldest democracy. It
is not even the oldest continuously existing democracy.

> Why are Americans getting their fundamental interests wrong? Not that
> Americans are not given a magic wand called voting. They are given the
> wand. The wand also worked magic. However, the results are not what
> people have expected.

Only an uneducated person would claim that voting is a magic wand. There are
no magic wands.

> "This is vexing for observers, and one might expect it to vex the
> movement's true believers even more. Their grandstanding leaders never
> deliver, their fury mounts and mounts, and never- theless they turn out
> every two years to return their right-wing heroes to office for a
> second, a third, a twentieth try.

That's one opinion. Here is another.

Suppose there were a bridge, with multiple entrances and exits. There was an
entrance/exit for every democracy in the world and an entrance/exit for every
dictatorship in the world.

Suppose that any person in any country could go the to the entrance/exit and
travel, instantly, for free and without needing a visa to any other country
in the world.

Does Mr. Lee really believe that most of the travelers would be going from
democracies to dictatorships?

> Check and balance produce girdlock. Gridlock means little could be done
> stagnation. In contrast, an energetic president can overrun the
> Congress and break the gridlock.

When the voters have a clear idea what to do, it elects like-minded
politicians to implement that plan. (Hence, recently Republican domination of
the Congress and many conservative laws passed. In other times the dominant
party was the Democrats.)

When the voters do NOT have a clear idea what to do, it elects many different
kinds of politicians and it is difficult to implement any plan. (For example,
a liberal like Clinton in the White House and Gingrich leading the Congress
and not many laws were passed. Because of the lack of clear vision by the
voters, that is EXACTLY what should happen.)

And no, an energetic President can not override Congress.

Bush is clearly an energetic President and the Congress is controlled by his
Party, but when the members of Congress thought he was wrong about the ports
deal, for example, Congress over-rode the President.

--
Love, Jim

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 1:00 pm
From: Jim Walsh

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:49:20 +0800, Gee wrote
(in article <1143211760.898801.287070@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

> When American claim ""All men are created equal" in any of America's
> political documents, it is not in the law of American voting right.
>
> There is "social class" is American democracy. "All men are not equal
> in America". As this result, there are million of Americans have "no
> righjt to vote". It is vilation of human right in a democratic nation.
>

America's democracy should be improved. Thank you for engaging in the sort of
debate that will promote that improvement.

--
Love, Jim

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 1:02 pm
From: Jim Walsh

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:39:21 +0800, bmoore@nyx.net wrote
(in article <1143225561.766309.302040@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

> Interesting how LT likes to quote authors who discuss problems that
> occur in democracy. NONE of these authors would agree that a repressive
> CCP-style dictatorship is preferable just because democracy may have
> some problems. They would find LT's delusions as ridiculous as we do.

Yes. That's right.

> In China, people who talk about the government the way LT does get in
> big trouble.

But, that is a reason to protect LT's freedom.

> But fortunately LT is posting in America, where you don't get the shit
> kicked out of you for doing what he does.

Thank goodness for that.

> Which is to say: the fact that LT *can* post what he does is far more
> important than the actual things he says, which are often inaccurate or
> distorted.

OK, fair comment.

> Incidentally, note that LT's use of the phrase "magic wand" is his
> alone. The author never uses that phrase. It is one of LT's catch
> phrases in his ongoing campaign of deception to argue against self-rule
> and in favor of arbitrary dictatorship.

True.

--
Love, Jim

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 1:08 pm
From: Jim Walsh

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:42:22 +0800, rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote (in article
<1143225742.163860.102650@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>):

>> In America which claims to be the oldest democracy
>
> The oldest true democracy was in city-states like Athen over 2000 years
> ago where anyone had anything to say can stand up and say what was in his
> mind. A "government of the people, by the people, for the people" is not
> a true democracy like the city-states of old days.

Well, Athens was certainly one example of a relatively open governmental
system. Unfortunately for its claim to be the founder of democracy, only the
"citizens" could vote. The "slaves" had no right to participate in the
elections.

"It is notoriously difficult to estimate the population of Athens or any
other Greek city-state in ancient times. Generally accepted figures for
Athens at the height of its power and prosperity in 431 B.C., though, are in
the range of approximately 305,000 people, of which perhaps 160,000 were
citizens (40,000 male, 40,000 female, 80,000 children), 25,000 were free
resident foreigners (metics), and 120,000 were slaves."
http://www.eh.net/encyclopedia/article/engen.greece

Women, children, slaves and resident foreigners could not vote. So only about
40,000 of 305,000 could vote.

--
Love, Jim

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 1:09 pm
From: Jim Walsh

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:09:07 +0800, ltlee1 wrote
(in article <1143238147.295040.154140@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

>
> rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> In America which claims to be the oldest democracy
>>
>> The oldest true democracy was in city-states like Athen over 2000 years
>> ago where anyone had anything to say can stand up and say what was in
>> his mind. A "government of the people, by the people, for the people"
>> is not a true democracy like the city-states of old days.
>
> The democracy of the anceints Greeks was a dead end. So, after a 2000
> years hiatus, it is not unreasonable for America to claim the title of
> the oldest democracy. At least she is the oldest of all new demoracies.

Switzerland.

--
Love, Jim

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turkish Regime Arrests Kurdish Leader In Hakkari
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/38273c102a6ad7d6
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 9:25 pm
From: "rick murphy"

"From: Ali Asker (pasa_asker@lycos.com)
Subject: Re: Kuwerdish contribution to Oscar 2005
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian, soc.culture.kurdish,
soc.culture.turkish, soc.culture.iraq
Date: 2004-10-02 04:55:12 PST

We are the TERRORISTS...

We will divide Iran, Turkey, Syria and Iraq in to the pieces until
ever single individual is free from thought control, torture and
brain-washing! Every nation should have their own land where they can
practice their own culture. Iran has consist of about 20 some
different nations and we will tore them in to 20 different countries
and give mollahs a small land where they can practice their barbaric
religion to themselves and only harm temselves.

WE WILL BREAK IRAN IN TO THE PIECES!!! "

++++++++++++++++++

http://www.turkses.com/index.asp

The Terror Organization KADEK

1. General

Historical Background

The initial activities regarding the terror organization PKK have
started with the intellectual activities of some students defending the
Marxist-Leninist ideology within the Ankara's Democratic Patriotic
Students Association (ADYÖD) under the leadership of Abdullah ÖCALAN
since 1973.

Abdullah ÖCALAN and his friends declared the setting up of the
Kurdistan's Workers Party (PKK) during an illegal meeting held in the
Diyarbakir province, Lice district, Fis village on November 27, 1978
which was called 1 st. Congress.

The inital documents stating PKK's aim were the "The Way Of
Kurdistan's Revolution-Manifesto" and party program published in 1978.
According to the said program, the aim of the terror organization is to
found initially an independent Marxist-Leninist Kurdistan state in the
East and Southeast Anatolian regions in Turkey by using the method of
armed propaganda and to achieve subsequently its final goal of
establishing an "Independent United Kurdistan" through the unification
of the Kurdish states to be founded in neighboring countries.

To this end, the terror organization PKK having officially declared
the commencement of its armed activities following the bloody attacks
on the districts Eruh and Þemdinli on August 15, 1984 has determined
four-stage strategy in order to divide and destroy Turkey by trying to
gather some part of the people, who have been living in peace within
the country for thousands of years, on a separate territory under a
different flag claiming that they have allegedly a different identity.

According to the above-mentioned strategy, it has been intended to;

- Obtain certain cultural and social rights at the first stage,

- Set up an autonomy or another administrative system of federation
type at the second stage,

- Establish the alleged North Kurdistan in our territory at the
third stage and

- Found an independent and united Kurdistan state in the region to
include some parts of Iranian, Iraqi and Syrian territories at the
final stage.

To this end, the terror organization PKK has adopted the method of
separatism-based, three-phased armed propaganda which was called the
war of people, and based on violence directed against the regional
people. Accordingly, the terror organization PKK has aimed at.

- Completing strategic defense stage through armed propaganda,
alleged guerilla war and mobile war operations under the control of its
leading staff within the framework of its ideological ideas in the
first phase,

- Partially completing the process of establishing fronts and an
army and thus, creating the strategic balance which will provide the
balance of power between the security forces and the terror
organization in the second phase and,

- Establishing saved areas in the region after triggering public
risings wherever possible by escalating the conflicts and passing into
strategic attack state when seizing the authority in the third phase,

The terror organization which has increased its armed force over 8
thousand men and raised the violence it has used against the people
regardless of their being women, elder or children to the highest level
from 1992 has not been able to achieve the above-mentioned stages until
today due to the measures taken in accordance with the "Area
Superiority Concept" put into practice from 1994, and the operations
successfully conducted by security forces. As a result, the separatist
terror organization was forced to take the decision of unilateral
ceasefire four times in 1993, 1995, 1998 and finally on September 01,
1999 in order to preserve its terrorist power.

The terror organization desiring to exploit the alleged cease-fire
as an opportunity of recovery for tactical purposes has tried to prove
that it still maintains its existence by continuing its acts and
violence against the civilians and security forces in rural, on the one
hand, carrying out sabotage and bomb attacks in the cities, on the
other hand.

The Turkish Armed Forces has gained an important success in pulling
down the terror organization and its activities to a marginal level
through a successful military operation it has conducted under the
Turkish constitution and legislation to destroy the internal threat, by
acting in a way that ensures the simultaneous implementation of a
series of administrative, social and economic measures taken to prevent
the support being provided to the terror organization.

The last achievement of the Turkish Armed Forces in struggling
against terrorism was that head of the terror organization A. ÖCALAN,
who was deported from Syria, was taken to Turkey following his capture
in Kenya/Nairobi on February 15, 1999 and brought before the
independent court.

The terror organization, tending to resort again to violence during
the period when the head of the terror organization has been taken to
Turkey and brought before the judge, has been able to adapt itself to
the new situation in a short time within the framework of the defense
that head of the terror organization has made in the court and has
tried to reach its goal by exploiting Turkey's EU goal and certain
values such as human rights and democratic rights widely accepted by
the international community. Within the framework of his defense in the
court, the head of the terrorist organization has changed his tactic
and begun to articulate such concepts as "Democratic Republic" and
"Democratic Middle Eastern Union" in its defense to save himself from
capital punishment.

At the VII. Congress of the terror organization held in the Kandil
Mountain region in Iraq on January 02-23, 2000 during which the new
strategy of the terror organization was agreed, it was decided that;

- The armed activities should be resumed in case of execution of
head of the terrorist organization and.

- The Kurdistan's National Liberation Army (ARGK), the alleged
military flank of the terror organization should maintain its existence
under the title of "People Defense Forces (Hezi Parastini Gel-HP) and
the Kurdistan's National Liberation Front (ERNK), the alleged political
flank of the terror organization, which mainly carries out activities
in European countries under the "Kurdish Democratic People Union
(Yekita Democratic A Gele Kurd-YDK) until appropriate legal
arrangements regarding recognition of the Kurdish identity in Turkey
and constitutional guarantees are provided.

The legalization plan that the terror organization has developed
according to its new strategy agreed during its congress, provides for
the followings:

- Giving the message that it is ready to make peace with the
government of Turkish Republic in order to obtain the status of being
recognized as a party in national and international public opinion,

- Handing over some terrorists to the security forces to convince
the public opinion that it is allegedly ready to make peace,

- Making political studies within the People's Democratic Party
(HADEP), which has political connection with the terror organization,
or a similar legal organization, and cooperating with other political
parties,

- Making guiding studies within the municipalities governed by
HADEP to broaden grass roots,

- Having contacts and cooperating with intellectuals from all
circles in Turkey's democratization to ensure the alleged cultural
rights of Kurds being recognized,

- Demanding that the Turkish government should make legal changes
to prove its goodwill through the human rights organizations,

- Bringing up the education in Kurdish language,

- Ensuring the Kurdish identity coming to the fore by focusing on
cultural activities,

- Organizing campaigns in order to ensure the scope of the law of
amnesty being extended,

The terror organization has attempted by its new plan to reach its
final goal that it could not achieve through its armed struggle it has
been carrying out for 16 years, through legalization efforts. To this
end, it has increased its activities it has conducted under the title
of the "Democratic Republic" at home and under "Political Settlement (
Solution ) To The Kurdish Problem" abroad,

In the plan the terror organization developed under the name of
"Peace Project" on March 07, 2000 following the VII. Congress,

- The alleged "Kurdish Problem" and PKK terror are identified with
the Irish, Palestinian, East Timor and Basque problems and it is
requested that the related "Political Solution" initiatives should also
be taken in Turkey and,

- It is put forward that the settlement of the alleged Kurdish
problem in Turkey in accordance with the predictions of head of the
terror organization, Öcalan would also serve the settlement of the
problems in the Middle Eastern countries, and the "Democratic Middle
Eastern Union" to be set up in regional countries would lead to
economic, social and cultural developments,

- Subsequently, in its 2nd "Party Assembly" meeting held in North
Iraq in September 2000, the terror organization decided to be
reorganized to conceal its terrorist identity and began to term its
former structure with innocent titles,

- Assuming that the new strategy of the terror organization could
not be well understood and adopted by its mountain members, the terror
organization held the III. "Party Assembly" meeting between 27 February
and 03 March 2001 and focused on restructuring activities in accordance
with the decisions it took during the said meeting. In addition, the
terror organization, having assessed that the people movement
activities could not achieve the desired level, has intensified its
efforts to ensure its new strategy being accepted by its members and
supporters through a series of meetings.

In this context;

* The "Centralized Propaganda and Media Conference" was held
between 29 May and 07 June 2001 in order for the efforts in the media
field, that the terror organization considers to be insufficient, and
to reach an organized structure,

* The "1st Public Movement Conference" was held between 20 June and
02 July 2001 for the purpose of carrying out the acts and activities
the terror organization has started under the name of alleged 2nd Peace
Efforts, in a more organized manner through its supporters and
sympathizers who are directed by the front organizations,

* The "1st Public Defense Forces (HPG), Conference" was held
between 28 June and 12 July 2001 in order to develop a new structure by
making radical changes in the armed flank of the terror organization
from the armed group order and discipline to war tactics and
techniques,

* The "3rd Free Women Party (PJA) Conference" was held on July
11-22, 2001 to make the women organizations conducting activities in
legal and illegal fields more active and organized,

* The "1st Culture, Art and Folklore Conference" was held on 11-22
July 2001 in order to indoctrinate wider parts of the people with
separatist ideas and,

* The "6th National Conference" was held on August 05-22, 2001
under the leadership of the alleged Supreme Council of the terror
organization in order to coordinate the conferences to be held in line
with the activities the terror organization carries out in various
fields and to direct all organizational efforts towards public
movements,

- The above-mentioned conferences have drawn special attention as
the ones which have been held within the framework of preparations for
the 8th Congress of the terror organization PKK. According to the
decisions taken during the said conferences, various campaigns have
been organized primarily in Europe and subsequently in Turkey for the
purpose of gaining support for the requests of constitutional
recognition of the Kurdish identity and the use of Kurdish language as
the language of education. However, the terror organization has not
been able to reach the desired level of participation by the people.

- On the other hand, the terror organization has focused on
re-establishment of the terrorist groups not directly affected by the
security forces and on their armed training in raid, laying ambush and
sabotage. The disagreements arising within the terror organization,
PKK-KPU conflict and escape of nearly five hundred Syrian terrorists
from the terror organization in particular have been the noticeable
problems that the terror organization has faced within the period under
review.

- In the meantime, the defense that head of the terror organization
has developed for his trial lasting in the European Court of Human
Rights has been printed by the terrorist organization in a two-volume
book under the title of "From the Sumerian Monastic State To The
Democratic Republic", accepted as the second manifesto and begun to be
used as a guide document for all activities carried out by the terror
organization and as a basic document in the ideological training of the
terrorist organization's members and supporters.

- The 8th Congress preparations which have lasted for a long time
in accordance with the outline of the said defense of head of the
terrorist organization was held in the Kandil Mountain region in
Northern Iraq on April 04-10, 2002 with the participation of 285
terrorist's 106 of whom were women and 179 men as well as about 100
audiences,

- In the said congress during which the activities the terror
organization PKK has conducted in the past and report developed
according to the defense of head of the terror organization and
submitted to the congress have also been evaluated, it has been pointed
out that;

* The terror organization PKK has obtained some advantages like
raising of the Kurdish problem in international area as a result of the
armed struggle it has conducted since 1977,

* However, the ideology and modus operandi adopted by the terror
organization at the beginning have failed due to the collapse of the
former Soviet system and the anti-terror environment arising following
the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the US and,

* It has been the time that PKK would be replaced by a completely
new formation in order not to be included in the list of terrorist
organizations, and it must undergo restructuring beginning from its
ideology to its lowest-level units, including a change in its
organizational title,

* The "3rd Free Women Party (PJA) Conference" was held on July
11-22, 2001 to make the women organizations conducting activities in
legal and illegal fields more active and organized,

* The "1st Culture, Art and Folklore Conference" was held on 11-22
July 2001 in order to indoctrinate wider parts of the people with
separatist ideas and,

* The terror organization PKK has obtained some advantages like
raising of the Kurdish problem in international area as a result of the
armed struggle it has conducted since 1977,

- During its 8th Congress, the terror organization has stated that
PKK's role has ended under current circumstances and decided that;

* It will not use the title "PKK" in the activities it carries out
in every field from April 04, 2002 when the birthday of head of the
terrorists is,

* It will conduct its activities under the title "Kurdistan's
Freedom and Democracy Congress-KADEK" from now on in accordance with a
new program, statute and organization based on the solution of Kurdish
problem in line with the main points of the defense that head of the
terrorists has submitted to the European Court of Human Rights within
the existing borders in four countries,

* PKK considers KADEK as its sole legal representative and disposes
of its moral and physical acquisitions to KADEK. The terror
organization made a press conference in Belgium/Brussels on April 16,
2000 and publicized its decisions.

- In the meantime, the fact that the inclusion of the PKK in the
list of terrorist organizations developed by the European Union member
nations which was issued on May 4, 2002 has led the members of the
terrorist organizations into great concern regarding the possible
inclusion of KADEK in the list of terrorist organizations. For this
reason, the terror organization has immediately begun to make protests
against such nations as Denmark, Spain, the UK who have had an effect
on the related decision-making,

==============================================================================
TOPIC: We're FRICKED, peoplez !!!!!!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6b3ac486f8a62a5e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 9:44 pm
From: "The Last 2460 days™ ♥"

HOOROO !

UNCLE WALLY

---0---

www.abc.net.au/news

Last Update: Friday, March 24, 2006. 8:43pm (AEDT)

Study: Melting ice sheets could spur oceans rise (ABC TV)

Melting ice sheets could hasten sea rise: study

Climate scientists have warned that a predicted rise in sea levels due
to global warming could be far more rapid than previously thought.

Studies published in the journal Science, showed that between the last
two ice ages - about 130,000 years ago - sea levels increased by as
much as four to six metres above current levels as polar ice sheets
melted.

Temperatures then were one-degree Celsius higher than now.

But researchers say that by the end of this century, the world could be
three to four degrees warmer.

Dr Jonathan Overpeck from the University of Arizona was one of the
scientists who carried out the research.

"We're going to cross a threshold sometime later in this century,
beyond which major retreat of ice sheets and corresponding large
increases in sea level are inevitable and irreversible," Dr Overpeck
said.

"We know when the sea level was that high in the past, and we know how
much warming is necessary to get that amount of sea level rise from
both Greenland and Antarctica."

The ice sheets are already melting, accelerated by relatively warm
water that eats away at them, said NASA glacier expert Bob
Bindschadler.

"It's not really a debate any more about whether sea level is rising or
not. I think the debate has shifted to, how rapidly is sea level
rising," Mr Bindschadler said.

---0---

==============================================================================
TOPIC: El Sanaco sez I`m a Kagastro`s whore!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ddf17b29dfecda8
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 12:49 am
From: "Crusader"

"Seneca" <Hispania@latin.com> wrote in message
news:op.s6xv8nd6bkossn@cx214697-a...
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:42:12 -0800, Miguel <michaelgayoso1948@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Seneca wrote:
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More than 100 suspected illegal immigrants found in 8 traffic incidents
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7338c9a79b60b67e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 12:48 am
From: necromancer

> Messalina:
> Both my gardener and my cleaning lady speak perfect English, Twat.

Thank you, asshole.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Left Creates Poverty and Misery
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d4aeaf6ab8e9bedc
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 24 2006 12:57 am
From: "Crusader"

"J Clark" <Jay@clark.net> wrote in message
news:%v1Vf.4949$Ck.2522@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> We need this man again.
> http://images.cafepress.com/product/24066606
> --
> Jay ClarK
> Far To The LEFT.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mike Wallace does not even deserve to be in the same room with
President GW Bush! Let alone shake his hand!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/64c77b490599ab19
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 5:58 am
From: "GOP is HISTORY"

"£ - E A R T H L I N G Æ§" <never@bush.net> wrote in message
news:jX2Vf.8046$tN3.4653@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> <thenightcrawler@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:1143245803.872135.244420@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> Talk about yucky, zkornholer...
>>
>> Klintoon gave Wallace his DNA sample along with the handshake.
>>
>> Bush can't compete with that.
>>
>
> Telles's Law... In any Usenet discussion with Republicans,
> the probability of Clinton being brought into the argument reaches 100% as
> the facts buildup against them.

And the probability of Clinton's dick being brought up reaches 100% whenever
anyone mentions Bush's looming impeachment !

==============================================================================

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