soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* N.Korea: Pre-emptive Attacks Can Go Both Ways - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51baedf3751506b1
* MONTREAL, March 19 /CNW Telbec/ - On March 18, 2003, an unprecedented wave
of repression broke over Cuban dissidents.CUBA - March 18, 2003 to March - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/74b1e532d2be5a4a
* Immigration driving air pollution - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9224c9529d55d50e
* gun owners and nra proven wrong - again - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/113cc170f0e4312a
* Muslims Call For Release Of Afghan Christian - 3 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f2baad4018d91f24
* Pimping Da Oscarz - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f989acbec3d530be
* CDC Reports Increase in Resistant TB - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66ef9501f56b57eb
* EL CAPITAN ASTIZ CUMPLIO CON SU DEBER Y DEBE SER CONDECORADO Y DESAGRAVIADO -
2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/739cd5f9fcf576b8
* THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT : A BRIEF HISTORY AND AN EVALUATION - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8e4d4151d3d62730
* City to Pay $1.7 Million for hiSPanIC Drunk - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/38b5755faa4788d0
* ABORTO LEGAL ..¿PARA NO MORIR? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/95af50872ea54ae
* Deport the Illegals - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7db05cf4996f8e36
* Fascist Turkish Dogs Killed again - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2d79b82a2e8127ea
* Consumers are bracing for the new AT&T - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/289b35b54c526254
* Prosecution of convert 'un-Islamic' - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f8e9e9c6b1d170fe
* An American reaction to Islam - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cad8f898e8679854
* Would HE have sent his children to Iraq ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b1618eba9409b05d
* TYPICAL SAYANIM GETS AWAY WITH MURDER - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/303a41d498c901d
* SAYANIM - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8a494914ed8eb434

==============================================================================
TOPIC: N.Korea: Pre-emptive Attacks Can Go Both Ways
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51baedf3751506b1
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:18 pm
From: AUK Registrar

In <MPG.1e8f916a8975dcd798c90e@news.west.earthlink.net>, Tank Fixer
<paul.deekat.carrier@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>In article <250320060409382734%hcb@gettcomm.com>,
> on Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:09:38 -0500,
> Howard C. Berkowitz hcb@gettcomm.com attempted to say .....

>> In article <MPG.1e8e66826beada7e98c906@news.west.earthlink.net>, Tank
>> Fixer <paul.deekat.carrier@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>> > In article <128122hvhdktrsltov3bnpkvu46luno46q@4ax.com>,
>> > on Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:55:11 -0800,
>> > Nick James no@ddress.here attempted to say .....

>> > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:48:28 -0800, Peter Franks <none@none.com> wrote:
>> > > >Do you know what the optimal elevation for the detonation of a nuclear
>> > > >device is?
>> > >
>> > > Optimal???
>> > > LOL!
>> > > Who cares.
>> > > I'm still going to enjoy watching it in High Def.
>> >
>> > You won't get to see that much.
>> > The EMP will toast your fancy TV a millisecond before your condo implodes and
>> > you get turned into a cinder.
>>
>> EMP, for other than superhard targets, tends to be inversely
>> proportional to heat and blast. Most EMP worth consideration involves
>> very high altitude detonation.
>
>True, but he won't understand why his TV is acting funny just before his walls
>blow in...

I think he oughtta just ignore the TV altogether and go out on the balcony
to watch it live. It should be quite impressive in that split second before
his eyeballs, and the rest of him, melts.

--
AUK Registrar
Providing clues to the cluless since time began
http://www.jillsjokeline.com/cluepon.jpg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MONTREAL, March 19 /CNW Telbec/ - On March 18, 2003, an unprecedented
wave of repression broke over Cuban dissidents.CUBA - March 18, 2003 to March
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/74b1e532d2be5a4a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:03 pm
From: "PM"

CUBA - March 18, 2003 to March 18, 2006 - Three years after 'black spring'
the independent press refuses to remain in the dark
2006-03-19
http://www.moneysense.ca/news/news_releases/shownews.jsp?content=20060319_11
4507_1_cnw_cnw

MONTREAL, March 19 /CNW Telbec/ - On March 18, 2003, an unprecedented wave
of repression broke over Cuban dissidents. For three days, ninety opponents
of the regime were arrested on grounds that they were "agents of the
American enemy." Among them were twenty-seven journalists. Nearly all of
them were tried under the "88 Law" of February 1999, which protects the
"national independence and economy of Cuba," and were given prison sentences
ranging from 14 to 27 years.

This "black spring" dealt a heavy blow to Cuba's independent press, which
had started to emerge on the island in the early 1990s with the creation of
small news agencies. Since the latter's founders and directors who had been
thrown in jail, many journalists preferred to give up their profession or
opt for a life of exile. Did independent journalism die out in Cuba that
day? Three years after the crackdown, Reporters Without Borders wanted to
take stock of the situation. Unable to send representatives to Cuba, the
organization contacted journalists who were still living on the island, or
in exile, members of an agency or freelancers, families of jailed dissidents
and media outlets - such as Internet websites, radio stations, and
publications - most of whom are based in Miami (the second largest Cuban
city in the world, with close to 3 million nationals), Puerto Rico, and
Madrid.
Although it is difficult at present to estimate the exact number of working
journalists in Cuba, and their working conditions are even more precarious
in the wake of a new wave of repression that has begun to spread across the
country, the unofficial Cuban press has not given up. In fact, it
constitutes the top news source on the status of human rights on the island.
However, its clandestine situation has forced it to be a press "from the
inside for the outside", one nearly inaccessible to those whom it covers on
a daily basis.

-0- 03/19/2006 /For further information: Emily Jacquard, Responsable de la
section canadienne, Reporters sans fronti Geres, (514) 521-4111, Cell: (514)
258-4208, Fax: (514) 521-7771, rsfcanada(at)rsf.org/ CO: REPORTERS WITHOUT
BORDERS ST: Quebec IN: PUB SU: -30- CNW 11:30e 19-MAR-06 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Distributed by
Chachi Novellas Bengochea
Delray Beach, Florida U.S.A.
Scanned by Norton Internet Security Professional.
Group: ForFreedom-Justice
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForFreedom-Justice
"Live-Free-or-Die"
"One nation UNDER G-D" "IN G-D WE TRUST"
CUBAN SUGAR MARKET & THE US GOV.- Learn the true reasons that keep Castro
in power. The "hidden" power manipulating the US Government, and the
resultant corruption of its institutions. Watch the documentary: COVERING
CUBA 4: The Rats Below. Film exposes sugar price control by ADM, owners of
Wash. DC. Order your DVD copy at: www.CubaCollectibles.com

--
THE MOST DANGEROUS ENNEMY OF HUMANITY :

ARE NOT THE NUCLEAR OR MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS,

BUT STUPIDITY, FOR WHICH EVERY MINUTE... MANY HUMANS GET HURT.

¿SE LIBERARAN ALGUN DIA DELA ESTUPIDEZ?

--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Immigration driving air pollution
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9224c9529d55d50e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 9:27 pm
From: Paul Bramscher

editor@netpath.net wrote:
> Roy. Just Roy wrote:
>
>>Fine - deport them. You've got to find them first. How are you going to
>>do that?
>
>
> Easy. Who BUT an illegal alien has a fake green card - and gets
> caught with a Social Security number supposedly issued before they were
> born? Local police run across these people thus caught in the act of
> being here illegally all the time!
>
> No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com

What makes his presence here a bad thing? If he's carrying his own
weight and working a decent job, isn't that saying more than the likes
of offshore-based tax-sheltered Halliburton subsidiaries in the Cayman
Islands?

Until we realize that being productive and cooperative are the only
important things -- and being despotic and monopolistic are the problems
-- then we have a problem much deeper than illegal workers, now, don't we?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: gun owners and nra proven wrong - again
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/113cc170f0e4312a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 7:28 pm
From: "0:->"

Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> Gun nuts believe in shooting people and animals
> both as a sport and a way to resolve problems.

You do?

The rest of us, no. You can tell by the ratio of guns to people and the
decades after decades that gun related crime has dropped in this
country. Accidental shootings show a similar drop.

I'm curious Jay, does lying come naturally to you, or are you a specialist?

0:->

>
> Jai Maharaj
> http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> http://www.mantra.com/jai
> Om Shanti
>
> In article <G8WTf.4$9h5.2@dukeread09>,
> "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
>> gn (gun nuts = gun owners + nra) have always argued that gun criminals have
>> a long history of non-gun based criminal-violence record. we all know that
>> to be a bumptious nonsense repeated ad infinitum - like saddam's wmd on its
>> way to new york.
>>
>> numerous incidents prove that a lot of killings wouldn't happen if guns were
>> not a part of it. the latest is the young ebulient promising life taken away
>> by an old goat with what else but a gun, acting in a moment of overwhelming
>> misplaced highly materialistic outrage. gun nuts, read this sad story, and
>> repent; have a moment with your conscience and demand total refund of your
>> membership money from nra and an apology.
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/20/boy.shot.ap/index.html
>>
>>

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Muslims Call For Release Of Afghan Christian
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f2baad4018d91f24
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:14 pm
From: "smashter"

I didn't know much about islam but over the past five years i've seen so
much evil...so so much evil...But it has been going on for 50 years at
least..

murder of robert kenedy
shooting of the pope
hatred of malcomX
hatred of the arse who is now in charge of the us muslims(who murdered
malcolmX)
many many murders of innocent passangers of planes
Lockerbie
Lebanon bombing
murders on spainish trains
murders in london subway
9/11
twin tower attacks prior to 9/11
many many other attacks in us
decapitation on kidnapped victims in iraq

And you actually think i have a problem....you stand for all of this
blood-shed.
You and your god and your religion.... you have no shortage of murderers
waiting in the wings.
Only a fool woulld not see the evil that this religion has become...
No, only a lunatic would follow such filth to hell.
What kind of a god allows this....are you people insane....
I do not hate any individual...but only a filthy pig would follow a religion
that has been covered with so many innocent's blood.
The stench would rise up to any god and make him vomit.
No, you are the one that needs help.If I were you I'd get on my knees as
soon as possible
and ask god to show you the truth of your evil ways.

"Sam Rahul" <SamRahul@NOemail.com> wrote in message
news:JrOdnbNzWqV8ZLjZRVn-tA@sysmatrix.net...
> "smashter" <smashter@mink.com> wrote in message
> news:NmmVf.8081$qX6.326786@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> It should not be denounced as 'to enhance the understanding of Islam,
>> encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American'. It should
>> be
>> denounced as a filthy,black-hearted muderous judgment that only a pig
>> would
>> decide. It is a judgment only a sub-human pig would
>> advocate. It has developed from a love of lucifer. It is an act of
>> evil....only a follower of lucifer
>
> You are full of hate.
>
>> could even consider such an evil judgment.The coward who has made this
>> judgment will go to his god,lucfer and he will burn in hell for ever and
>> ever...he is a pig.a dog. a coward.he sits in judgment , arrogant and
>> merciless like his god...lucifer....
>
> You need psychological help, you are on the brinks of getting into a
> mental institution
>
>>
>> "Sam Rahul" <SamRahul@NOemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1pSdnWspzpYfcLjZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@sysmatrix.net...
>> > Wednesday, March 22, 2006
>> > CAIR Calls For Release Of Afghan Christian
>> >
>> > In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>> >
>> > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>> >
>> > CAIR CALLS FOR RELEASE OF AFGHAN CHRISTIAN
>> > Islamic civil rights group says conversion a personal, not state matter
>> >
>> > (WASHINGTON, D.C., 3/22/2006) - A prominent national Islamic civil
>> > rights
>> > and advocacy group today called on the
>> > government of Afghanistan to release Abdul Rahman, a man facing the
>> > death
>> > penalty for converting from Islam to
>> > Christianity.
>> >
>> > The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) says
>> > the
>> > man's conversion is a personal matter not
>> > subject to the intervention of the state.
>> >
>> > SEE: Afghan Christian Could Face Death
>> > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/world/main1428951.shtml
>> >
>> > In its statement, CAIR said:
>> >
>> > "Islamic scholars say the original rulings on apostasy were similar to
>> > those for treasonous acts in legal systems
>> > worldwide and do not apply to an individual's choice of religion. Islam
>> > advocates both freedom of religion and freedom
>> > of conscience, a position supported by verses in the Quran, Islam's
>> > revealed text, such as:
>> >
>> > 1) 'If it had been the will of your Lord that all the people of the
>> > world
>> > should be believers, all the people of the
>> > earth would have believed! Would you then compel mankind against their
>> > will to believe?' (10:99)
>> > 2) '(O Prophet) proclaim: 'This is the Truth from your Lord. Now let
>> > him
>> > who will, believe in it, and him who will, deny
>> > it.'' (18:29)
>> > 3) 'If they turn away from thee (O Muhammad) they should know that We
>> > have
>> > not sent you to be their keeper. Your only
>> > duty is to convey My message.' (42:48)
>> > 4) 'Let there be no compulsion in religion.' (2:256)
>> >
>> > "Religious decisions should be matters of personal choice, not a cause
>> > for
>> > state intervention. Faith imposed by force is
>> > not true belief, but coercion. Islam has no need to compel belief in
>> > its
>> > divine truth. As the Quran states: 'Truth
>> > stands out clear from error. Therefore, whoever rejects evil and
>> > believes
>> > in God has grasped the most trustworthy
>> > hand-hold that never breaks.' (2:256)
>> >
>> > "We urge the government of Afghanistan to order the immediate release
>> > of
>> > Mr. Abdul Rahman."
>> >
>> > Before issuing its statement, CAIR consulted with members of the Fiqh
>> > Council of North America, an association of
>> > Islamic legal scholars that interprets Muslim religious law.
>> >
>> > CAIR, America's largest Muslim civil liberties group, has 32 offices,
>> > chapters and affiliates nationwide and in Canada.
>> > Its mission is to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage
>> > dialogue,
>> > protect civil liberties, empower American
>> > Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual
>> > understanding.
>> >
>> > - END -
>> > www.cair-net.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:27 pm
From: "smashter"

The west went to Somalia to save starving people...where were the muslims?
the somali muslims desecrated the bodies of us soldiers.

In Sudan the muslim government has murdered millions of christian citizens
of the past 17 years.

The muslims murders hundrreds of thousands of begladesh people(fellow
muslims)

In algeria muslims murdered muslims.

In iraq sadam husien murdered his fellow citizens...where was the outcry of
the muslim nations?

In indonesia muslims murdered innocent tourists.

In India...the muslim has covered the streets with blood.

Salmon Rusdie was threatened with death for writing a book.

On an Italian cruise ship, you threw a us jew over the side of the ship...he
was in a wheelchair.

Today you have an innocent girl in iraq...only there to help your people.

Murder of dutch journalist for writing a book.

Sunni muslims murder fellow muslims...blow up most holy sheite shrine.

I could write almost without end of the horror you have put your fellow man
through...
And most or all of it in the name of your god....

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:48 pm
From: "smashter"

If you really belive in what you are saying and if your religion really
does belive this then why are not you and your fellow muslims going to
mid-east and fighting to save your people from the extremists... are you a
coward?
Or perhaps you just want to bull shit westerers while your fellow muslims do
the murdering|?
Why don't you go and convice them to work with christians and jews for peace
and justice?

Muslims would send nuclear bombs and kill all westerers if the could.I think
you are in the us because you know it will take them some time to be able to
accomplish this. The problem is that muslims will get the same ....I just
don't know what you expect to accomplish..with all of this murder!

Why do you muslims keep someone like Sadaam in charge? why did you not fight
him?
I know...he was a so called fellow muslim...why are young americans dying in
iraq... you should be there , bringing peace and prosperity to your fellow
muslims...why do you not cry out why sunnis blow up the muslim shine...?

You are hoplessly lost in your own bullshit...you belive your own lies...you
haven't got the guts to do what my ancestors did to build a free nation of
peace and prosperity. Youv'e built nations full of murderers....you've
transformed your religion into a violent terrorist organization.
If you really care for islam...then fight for it...

"Sam Rahul" <SamRahul@NOemail.com> wrote in message
news:1pSdnWspzpYfcLjZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@sysmatrix.net...
> Wednesday, March 22, 2006
> CAIR Calls For Release Of Afghan Christian
>
> In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> CAIR CALLS FOR RELEASE OF AFGHAN CHRISTIAN
> Islamic civil rights group says conversion a personal, not state matter
>
> (WASHINGTON, D.C., 3/22/2006) - A prominent national Islamic civil rights
> and advocacy group today called on the
> government of Afghanistan to release Abdul Rahman, a man facing the death
> penalty for converting from Islam to
> Christianity.
>
> The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) says the
> man's conversion is a personal matter not
> subject to the intervention of the state.
>
> SEE: Afghan Christian Could Face Death
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/world/main1428951.shtml
>
> In its statement, CAIR said:
>
> "Islamic scholars say the original rulings on apostasy were similar to
> those for treasonous acts in legal systems
> worldwide and do not apply to an individual's choice of religion. Islam
> advocates both freedom of religion and freedom
> of conscience, a position supported by verses in the Quran, Islam's
> revealed text, such as:
>
> 1) 'If it had been the will of your Lord that all the people of the world
> should be believers, all the people of the
> earth would have believed! Would you then compel mankind against their
> will to believe?' (10:99)
> 2) '(O Prophet) proclaim: 'This is the Truth from your Lord. Now let him
> who will, believe in it, and him who will, deny
> it.'' (18:29)
> 3) 'If they turn away from thee (O Muhammad) they should know that We have
> not sent you to be their keeper. Your only
> duty is to convey My message.' (42:48)
> 4) 'Let there be no compulsion in religion.' (2:256)
>
> "Religious decisions should be matters of personal choice, not a cause for
> state intervention. Faith imposed by force is
> not true belief, but coercion. Islam has no need to compel belief in its
> divine truth. As the Quran states: 'Truth
> stands out clear from error. Therefore, whoever rejects evil and believes
> in God has grasped the most trustworthy
> hand-hold that never breaks.' (2:256)
>
> "We urge the government of Afghanistan to order the immediate release of
> Mr. Abdul Rahman."
>
> Before issuing its statement, CAIR consulted with members of the Fiqh
> Council of North America, an association of
> Islamic legal scholars that interprets Muslim religious law.
>
> CAIR, America's largest Muslim civil liberties group, has 32 offices,
> chapters and affiliates nationwide and in Canada.
> Its mission is to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue,
> protect civil liberties, empower American
> Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual
> understanding.
>
> - END -
> www.cair-net.org
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pimping Da Oscarz
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f989acbec3d530be
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:29 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:51:30 -0800, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:53:32 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:06:23 -0800, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:09:10 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:31:37 -0800, Von Bailey
>>>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:01:54 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:41:10 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, looks like the Oscar producers are going down to the `hood in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>miguided effort to pump up its ratings. Has ABC forgotten the Janet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jackson debacle so soon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's where the white guy illegally tore off her clothes on national
>>>>>>>>>>>>>televeision and got away with it. What about it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Geez, ya *really* are naive if ya don't think that stunt was scripted
>>>>>>>>>>>>in advance. Like pro wrestling. Nothing "illegal" about it (only
>>>>>>>>>>>>unethical and immoral), so there was nothing for the "white guy" to
>>>>>>>>>>>>"get away with".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You have some evidence besides your bigotted assumpitons that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>'scripted'?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Because these enterntainers are too disciplined after years of
>>>>>>>>>>training to do something spontaneous on national TV, especially
>>>>>>>>>>something risque. Does the term "rehersal" mean anything to ya?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>None of which is evidence, just more of your stupid assumptions being
>>>>>>>>>paraded as facts by you, the factually handicapped.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think yer talking to the mirror now, as I have already given you the
>>>>>>>>most important *fact* you need to understand when dealing with
>>>>>>>>entertainers who make those fabulous buck$ -- they don't jeopardize
>>>>>>>>their acts by doing something that hadn't been planned and rehearsed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That isn't a fact, that's your opinion that you have decided referrs
>>>>>>>to an entire group of people. The usual habit of bigots, generalizing
>>>>>>>to support their stupid assumptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You deny that entertainers reherse ahead of time what they are going
>>>>>>to do when the cameras are rolling?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Not relevant to whether something unrehersed could occur during the
>>>>>act, which is what everyone involved said. So whatever point you were
>>>>>attempting to make simply state it and back it up.
>>>>
>>>>Actually they claimed it was a "wardrobe malfunction", whatever THAT
>>>>is supposed to mean. Which is WHY entertainers always rehearse ahead
>>>>of time, in an attempt to minimize the unexpected.
>>>>
>>>Which makes the stupid assumption that things cannot happen that you
>>>don't rehearse for. That would be WRONG, but you have no problem
>>>making such stupid assumptions when black people are involved all the
>>>time so why stop now.
>>
>>No, of course the unexpected can happen. Which is precisely WHY good
>>entertainers rehearse their acts frequently. Like hand movements,
>>for example, like reaching out and grabbing one's singing partner.
>>
>So the person who's job it was to grab the singing partner screwed up
>his part. She didn't have control over what his hands did HE did. So
>if anyone did something purposely wrong in the live performance it was
>HIM.

Except that at rehersal time, she could have said "no".

>>>>>>>>Not when on national TV, in this case, the Super Bowl half time show,
>>>>>>>>watched by possibly hundreds of millions world-wide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And you have still not presented a shred of evidence that it was
>>>>>>>scripted. None. You assume and rant as usual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now if I told ya there were 24 hours to a day, you would probably want
>>>>>>proof, even though you know it to be true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Your irrelevant comparison has not changed the fact that you have not
>>>>>presented a shred of evidence that it was scripted.
>>>>
>>>>Can ya prove otherwise?
>>>
>>>I don't have to. YOU are the one claiming specifics of which YOU have
>>>no evidence to back up. You are simply providing one of your
>>>pitifully sorry reflexive responses again when you have NOTHING to
>>>back up what you say, "CAN YOU PROVE OTHERWISE" as if not being able
>>>to demonstrate that your assumptions are wrong prove them.
>>
>>Wrong I've provided all the evidence you need.
>>
>Liar. And what's so amazing is that all anyone has to do is read the
>thread and they will see that you haven't done anything except put
>forth that you BELIEVE she purposely had HIM pull off a part of her
>garment. NO EVIDENCE just what you believe.

Wrong, I explained why all but the stupidest of performers would never
do anything without working it out in advance during rehersals, which
is what they are for. Well, OK, maybe these 2 clowns aren't the
sharpest knives in the drawer, so maybe there is a long shot you might
be right.

>>>>Only the most naive of folks, like
>>>>you, believe that it was an "accident". Or that because the man was
>>>>white, he figured he could "get away" with sexually assaulting a black
>>>>woman, live on TV.
>>>>
>>>So your scenario of a black woman 'rehearsing' it with this same white
>>>man, (who if your scenario makes sense had to be part of the planning)
>>>makes more sense? Only if you're as stupid as you appear to be.
>>
>>It makes plenty of sense once you open your head to realization that
>>top tier entertainers don't make unplanned moves on national TV.
>
>Using that logic then you have to admit that Justin Timberlake, the
>person who actually had the piece of clothing in his hand, is the
>culprit. HE is the one who did something, Janet Jackson's hand was
>nowhere near the piece of clothing that was removed.

Nope, ya still don't understand the cold hard logic I just laid out
for you.

>>Toss
>>in the fact of just *who* the entertainer in question here is and in
>>mind, it's an open and shut case.
>>
>In the mind of a bigot such as yourself using your beliefs and
>assumptions as credible justification.

Nothing "bigotted" about reminding you of the dysfunctional history of
the Jackson family. Or perhaps this is news to you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CDC Reports Increase in Resistant TB
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66ef9501f56b57eb
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 3:29 am
From: Mike M

Dr. Wayne Simon wrote:
> "arminius" <richard norton@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
> news:Dt6dnQN_cr2Scb7ZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@sedona.net...
>> <johnny@.> wrote in message
>> news:ANFUf.898$q6.137@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>>> March 23, 2006, 2:48 PM EST
>>>
>>> ATLANTA -- Health officials said Thursday they are seeing what appears
>>> to be a disturbing increase around the world in tuberculosis infections
>>> resistant to both the first- and second-line antibiotics used against TB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the United States, health officials looked at 169,654 TB cases from
>>> 1993 to 2004 that were analyzed for their drug response and found that
>>> 1.6 percent were multidrug-resistant and 0.04 percent extensively
>>> drug-resistant.
>>>
>>> U.S. multidrug-resistant cases rose from 2003 to 2004, from 113 to 128.
>>> Though the number was small, it represented the largest single-year
>>> increase in more than 10 years. Ninety-seven of those 128 cases were in
>>> people born in other countries, mostly Mexico, the Philippines and
>> Vietnam.
>>> Overall, the TB rate in the United States has never been lower. In 2005,
>>> about 14,100 cases were reported, or 4.8 cases per 100,000 people. That
>>> is a 4 percent decline in the rate from 2004.
>>>
>>> However, the TB rate in foreign-born people in the United States was 8.7
>>> times that of U.S. natives.
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-super-resistant-tb,0,6697855.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
>> Just another benefit of diversity and immigration.
>>
>> Hank
>>> And the U.S. natives got TB from the foreign born.
>> Are we sure about that? Ever hear of BCG Vaccine?
>
>
Yeah, and it isn't widely used in USA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EL CAPITAN ASTIZ CUMPLIO CON SU DEBER Y DEBE SER CONDECORADO Y
DESAGRAVIADO
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/739cd5f9fcf576b8
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:15 pm
From: "PM"

CAPITAN ASTIZ CUMPLIO CON SU DEBER Y DEBE SER CONDECORADO Y DESAGRAVIADO

Jóvenes del mundo:

Cuando la Argentina se vio atacada por el terrorismo comunista, con
posibilidades ciertas de tomar el poder, dados los cientos de miles de
combatientes y apoyos con que contaron, amén de los económicos y logísticos
del exterior, se trató de dar respuesta al enemigo invisible de diversas
maneras, hasta que fracasadas en su totalidad hubo que recurrir como última
instancia a las Fuerzas Armadas para "exterminar" al enemigo.

En ninguna parte del mundo los terroristas atacaron la cantidad de unidades
militares como en la Argentina y mataron cientos de efectivos por golpes
arteros y traicioneros.

En cada caso contaron con INFILTRADOS Y TRAIDORES ENTREGADORES en cada
unidad militar y frente a este verdadero cancer inoculado por el enemigo,
poco es lo que se puede hacer,salvo no hacer nada y para hacer algo la
guerra impone utilizar la misma metodología bajo riesgo de caer derrotado.

Un puñado pequeño de INFILTRADOS, mimetizados entre el pueblo
norteamericano, conspiraron y actuaron secuestrando los aviones con los
cuales derribaron las torres gemelas de New York el 11 de setiembre del
fatídico 2001. Así, imprevistamente, en un momento, quedaron en el campo de
batalla miles de norteamericanos inocentes víctimas del accionar terrorista.

Y esto no le sucedió a una república sudamericana, le sucedió a la primera
potencia militar del mundo quedando en evidencia la eficacia siniestra y
perversa del método empleado. Toda la ciencia militar norteamericana falló
en un instante y el pavoroso resultado quedo a la vista de un mundo azorado
y aterrorizado, al punto que de inmediato millones de habitantes dejaron de
tomar aviones y de viajar, causando tantas pérdidas que llevaron a la
quiebra a diversas compañías de aviación.

En ese momento, la señora Hebe Pastor de Bonafini con dos hijos
desaparecidos en montoneros, aprovechando micrófonos y cámaras le hizo
conocer desde Buenos Aires su alegría por el atentado, conducta ésta que fue
acompañada por un ejército de cofrades de la señora que recorre el mundo
alentando a todas las guerrillas desde la ETA hasta las FARC, desde
zapatistas a tupamaros, desde sendero luminoso a irakíes y asi sucesivamente
por todos los antros del terrorismo mundial.

No es deficil deducir que la señora, sus hijos, sus amigos, sus
guerrilleros, sus secuaces de todas las demás organizaciones hermanas del
extremismo se sintieron encarnadas y no deja lugar a dudas de que cualquier
"amado guerrillerito" hubiera querido ocupar el lugar de los pilotos
suicidas de Estados Unidos, total a ellos la vida no les importaba mucho por
cuanto portaban pastillas de cianuro para suicidarse en caso de posibilidad
de ser capturados.

22000 actos de terrorismo se dieron en la Argentina de la década del 70,
solamente computando los denunciados por la prensa. Ayer 5 de octubre se
cumplieron 28 años del día en que más de 200 guerrilleros atacaron la
guarnición de la provincia de Formosa en el norte argentino, cuando los
irregulares ya contaban con un territorio tomado en la provincia de Tucumán
y gestionaban reconocimiento internacional de los paraísos comunistas como
URSS, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, etc. Y quede constancia que el ataque
al Regimiento 29 de Monte solo es una unidad en el conteo de los 22000
hechos.

Cuántos hombres de sus filas debieron INFILTRAR las FFAA Argentinas en el
enemigo pertenece al secreto militar de toda guerra.

Un jovencito, un teniente de 24 años dió en paso adelante del voluntario en
las fuerzas navales. Actuó con precisión
y exitosamente en las filas enemigas a donde lo condujeros elementos
desertores del enemigo. Nunca sabremos cuantas torres se salvaron de ser
voladas si es que en realidad hubo alguna, pero sí sabemos de los miles de
muertos que quedaron en el campo de batalla ajecutados desde las sombras,
por la espalda, por los alumnos de asesino Che Guevara de triste y funesta
memoria, porque no se detectaron los planes a tiempo, con atelación,
infiltrando hombres, haciendo contrainteligencia como en cualquier parte del
mundo.

El enemigo derrotado, con el tiempo, por razones fortuitas, por una
verdadera fatalidad, descubrió la identidad del oficial naval y en su
desenfrenada locura con deseos de venganza, desde entonces no trepidaron un
instante en una persecusión a pesar de la finalización de la guerra. El odio
y la ira los tiene cegados, para ello cuentan con la desinformación de la
gente, con la mentira y con el apoyo de los "aparatik comunistas"
desparramados por todo el mundo.

Para el comunismo el Capitán Astiz es un símbolo, pero también es un símbolo
para los patriotas que le defienden, que le reconocen, que le admiran, que
le están agradecidos, que saben que nunca podrán pagar tanto riesgo asumido
a costa de la propia vida.

El Capitán Astiz es un héroe entre otros muchos, el pueblo lo sabe,la
historia lo reconocerá. Políticos mediocres y acomodaticios, buscadores de
beneficios y prebendas no vacilaron en sacrificarlo para obtener espúreas
ganancias basadas en la miserabilidad de sus actos.

El Capitán Astiz contribuyó a la derrota del terrorismo.

El Capitán Astiz contribuyó a la salvación de la Argentina.

El Capitán Astiz sufre con estoicismo el ansia de venganza de los enemigos
de la República.

El Capitán Astiz goza del reconocimiento de sus camaradas.

El Capitán Astiz debe ser reivindicado por la Patria.

El Capitán Astiz debe ser repuesto en la Armada.

El Capitán Astiz debe ser condecorado por importantes servicios realizados a
la Patria.

El Capitán Astiz trascenderá en el tiempo y aunque políticos, gobernantes e
ideólogos se opongan permanecerá CONDECORADO EN LOS CORAZONES DE LOS
PATRIOTAS RECONOCIDOS POR HABER CUMPLIDO CON HONRA, RIESGO Y VALOR LO QUE LA
NACION LE ENCOMENDO COMO JOVEN OFICIAL NAVAL EN MOMENTOS DE GRAVE PELIGRO
PARA LA SUPERVIVENCIA DE LA REPUBLICA.

QUE DIOS LO BENDIGA.

--
THE MOST DANGEROUS ENNEMY OF HUMANITY :

ARE NOT THE NUCLEAR OR MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS,

BUT STUPIDITY, FOR WHICH EVERY MINUTE... MANY HUMANS GET HURT.

¿SE LIBERARAN ALGUN DIA DELA ESTUPIDEZ?

--
THE MOST DANGEROUS ENNEMY OF HUMANITY :

ARE NOT THE NUCLEAR OR MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS,

BUT STUPIDITY, FOR WHICH EVERY MINUTE... MANY HUMANS GET HURT.

¿SE LIBERARAN ALGUN DIA DELA ESTUPIDEZ?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 7:49 pm
From: "Viejo Vizcacha"

Gracias P(uta) M(aricona). El artículo que posteas no puede ser más
apropiado para mostrar, sin que queden dudas, la fétida inmundicia
moral de tus postulados políticos. Que consideres como un héroe a un
militar que con engaños secuestró, torturó y asesinó a monjas
desarmadas nos da una pauta muy clara de tu catadura moral.

No hace falta decirte cosa alguna. Tú ya te lo has dicho todo.

VV

PM wrote:
> CAPITAN ASTIZ CUMPLIO CON SU DEBER Y DEBE SER CONDECORADO Y DESAGRAVIADO
>
>
> Jóvenes del mundo:
>
> Cuando la Argentina se vio atacada por el terrorismo comunista, con
> posibilidades ciertas de tomar el poder, dados los cientos de miles de
> combatientes y apoyos con que contaron, amén de los económicos y logísticos
> del exterior, se trató de dar respuesta al enemigo invisible de diversas
> maneras, hasta que fracasadas en su totalidad hubo que recurrir como última
> instancia a las Fuerzas Armadas para "exterminar" al enemigo.
>
> En ninguna parte del mundo los terroristas atacaron la cantidad de unidades
> militares como en la Argentina y mataron cientos de efectivos por golpes
> arteros y traicioneros.
>
> En cada caso contaron con INFILTRADOS Y TRAIDORES ENTREGADORES en cada
> unidad militar y frente a este verdadero cancer inoculado por el enemigo,
> poco es lo que se puede hacer,salvo no hacer nada y para hacer algo la
> guerra impone utilizar la misma metodología bajo riesgo de caer derrotado.
>
> Un puñado pequeño de INFILTRADOS, mimetizados entre el pueblo
> norteamericano, conspiraron y actuaron secuestrando los aviones con los
> cuales derribaron las torres gemelas de New York el 11 de setiembre del
> fatídico 2001. Así, imprevistamente, en un momento, quedaron en el campo de
> batalla miles de norteamericanos inocentes víctimas del accionar terrorista.
>
> Y esto no le sucedió a una república sudamericana, le sucedió a la primera
> potencia militar del mundo quedando en evidencia la eficacia siniestra y
> perversa del método empleado. Toda la ciencia militar norteamericana falló
> en un instante y el pavoroso resultado quedo a la vista de un mundo azorado
> y aterrorizado, al punto que de inmediato millones de habitantes dejaron de
> tomar aviones y de viajar, causando tantas pérdidas que llevaron a la
> quiebra a diversas compañías de aviación.
>
> En ese momento, la señora Hebe Pastor de Bonafini con dos hijos
> desaparecidos en montoneros, aprovechando micrófonos y cámaras le hizo
> conocer desde Buenos Aires su alegría por el atentado, conducta ésta que fue
> acompañada por un ejército de cofrades de la señora que recorre el mundo
> alentando a todas las guerrillas desde la ETA hasta las FARC, desde
> zapatistas a tupamaros, desde sendero luminoso a irakíes y asi sucesivamente
> por todos los antros del terrorismo mundial.
>
> No es deficil deducir que la señora, sus hijos, sus amigos, sus
> guerrilleros, sus secuaces de todas las demás organizaciones hermanas del
> extremismo se sintieron encarnadas y no deja lugar a dudas de que cualquier
> "amado guerrillerito" hubiera querido ocupar el lugar de los pilotos
> suicidas de Estados Unidos, total a ellos la vida no les importaba mucho por
> cuanto portaban pastillas de cianuro para suicidarse en caso de posibilidad
> de ser capturados.
>
> 22000 actos de terrorismo se dieron en la Argentina de la década del 70,
> solamente computando los denunciados por la prensa. Ayer 5 de octubre se
> cumplieron 28 años del día en que más de 200 guerrilleros atacaron la
> guarnición de la provincia de Formosa en el norte argentino, cuando los
> irregulares ya contaban con un territorio tomado en la provincia de Tucumán
> y gestionaban reconocimiento internacional de los paraísos comunistas como
> URSS, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, etc. Y quede constancia que el ataque
> al Regimiento 29 de Monte solo es una unidad en el conteo de los 22000
> hechos.
>
> Cuántos hombres de sus filas debieron INFILTRAR las FFAA Argentinas en el
> enemigo pertenece al secreto militar de toda guerra.
>
> Un jovencito, un teniente de 24 años dió en paso adelante del voluntario en
> las fuerzas navales. Actuó con precisión
> y exitosamente en las filas enemigas a donde lo condujeros elementos
> desertores del enemigo. Nunca sabremos cuantas torres se salvaron de ser
> voladas si es que en realidad hubo alguna, pero sí sabemos de los miles de
> muertos que quedaron en el campo de batalla ajecutados desde las sombras,
> por la espalda, por los alumnos de asesino Che Guevara de triste y funesta
> memoria, porque no se detectaron los planes a tiempo, con atelación,
> infiltrando hombres, haciendo contrainteligencia como en cualquier parte del
> mundo.
>
> El enemigo derrotado, con el tiempo, por razones fortuitas, por una
> verdadera fatalidad, descubrió la identidad del oficial naval y en su
> desenfrenada locura con deseos de venganza, desde entonces no trepidaron un
> instante en una persecusión a pesar de la finalización de la guerra. El odio
> y la ira los tiene cegados, para ello cuentan con la desinformación de la
> gente, con la mentira y con el apoyo de los "aparatik comunistas"
> desparramados por todo el mundo.
>
> Para el comunismo el Capitán Astiz es un símbolo, pero también es un símbolo
> para los patriotas que le defienden, que le reconocen, que le admiran, que
> le están agradecidos, que saben que nunca podrán pagar tanto riesgo asumido
> a costa de la propia vida.
>
> El Capitán Astiz es un héroe entre otros muchos, el pueblo lo sabe,la
> historia lo reconocerá. Políticos mediocres y acomodaticios, buscadores de
> beneficios y prebendas no vacilaron en sacrificarlo para obtener espúreas
> ganancias basadas en la miserabilidad de sus actos.
>
> El Capitán Astiz contribuyó a la derrota del terrorismo.
>
> El Capitán Astiz contribuyó a la salvación de la Argentina.
>
> El Capitán Astiz sufre con estoicismo el ansia de venganza de los enemigos
> de la República.
>
> El Capitán Astiz goza del reconocimiento de sus camaradas.
>
> El Capitán Astiz debe ser reivindicado por la Patria.
>
> El Capitán Astiz debe ser repuesto en la Armada.
>
> El Capitán Astiz debe ser condecorado por importantes servicios realizados a
> la Patria.
>
> El Capitán Astiz trascenderá en el tiempo y aunque políticos, gobernantes e
> ideólogos se opongan permanecerá CONDECORADO EN LOS CORAZONES DE LOS
> PATRIOTAS RECONOCIDOS POR HABER CUMPLIDO CON HONRA, RIESGO Y VALOR LO QUE LA
> NACION LE ENCOMENDO COMO JOVEN OFICIAL NAVAL EN MOMENTOS DE GRAVE PELIGRO
> PARA LA SUPERVIVENCIA DE LA REPUBLICA.
>
> QUE DIOS LO BENDIGA.
>
>
> --
> THE MOST DANGEROUS ENNEMY OF HUMANITY :
>
> ARE NOT THE NUCLEAR OR MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS,
>
> BUT STUPIDITY, FOR WHICH EVERY MINUTE... MANY HUMANS GET HURT.
>
> ¿SE LIBERARAN ALGUN DIA DELA ESTUPIDEZ?
>
>
> --
> THE MOST DANGEROUS ENNEMY OF HUMANITY :
>
> ARE NOT THE NUCLEAR OR MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS,
>
> BUT STUPIDITY, FOR WHICH EVERY MINUTE... MANY HUMANS GET HURT.
>
> ¿SE LIBERARAN ALGUN DIA DELA ESTUPIDEZ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT : A BRIEF HISTORY AND AN EVALUATION
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8e4d4151d3d62730
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 3:40 am
From: "choro-nik"

Bu konuda tum arastirmalar Ingilizceye tercume edilip yayinlanmali.
Gecenlerde soyledigim gibi bu isler sadece Turkce yayin yapmakla olmaz.
Enternasyonal kamu oyuna hahikatleri Ingilizce yayinlarla ulastiramayiz.

Kendi aramizda bu hususlarda konusmamiz kafi degil. Etkin de degil. Bu
hususta Ingilizcenin enternasyonal sahada onemini hala daha ogrenecegiz.

Bunlariu soylerken bu arastirmalarin diger dunya dillerine de cevirilmesi bu
etkinligi daha da saglam temellere bagladigi kanaatinde oldugumu da eklemek
mecburiyetini hissediyorum. Fakat bir baslangic olarak tum arastirmalarin en
erken bir zamanda Ingilizceye cevrilip yayinlanmasini saglamaliyiz.

Gec kaldik bile. Fakat hic bir baslangic cok gec olamaz. Veya Ingilizlerin
dedigi gibi: "It is never too late".
--
choro-nik
********
<uhu@topkale.net> wrote in message
news:1143317133.593814.260150@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
The speach below is right now (see timestamp) being aired on the
TRT-INT TV channel.

THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT : A BRIEF HISTORY AND AN EVALUATION

Speech given by Dr. Justin McCarthy at the Turkish Grand National
Assembly

Ankara March 24, 2005

The History

OTTOMAN PROVINCES

Conflict between the Turks and the Armenians was not inevitable. The
two peoples should have been friends. When World War I began, the
Armenians and Turks had been living together for 800 years. The
Armenians of Anatolia and Europe had been Ottoman subjects for nearly
400 years. There were problems during those centuries-problems caused
especially by those who attacked and ultimately destroyed the Ottoman
Empire. Everyone in the Empire suffered, but it was the Turks and other
Muslims who suffered most. Judged by all economic and social standards,
the Armenians did well under Ottoman rule. By the late nineteenth
century, in every Ottoman province the Armenians were better educated
and richer than the Muslims. Armenians worked hard, it is true, but
their comparative riches were largely due to European and American
influence and Ottoman tolerance. European merchants made Ottoman
Christians their agents. European merchants gave them their business.
European consuls intervened in their behalf. The Armenians benefited
from the education given to them, and not to the Turks, by American
missionaries.

While the lives of the Armenians as a group were improving, Muslims
were living through some of the worst suffering experienced in modern
history : In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, Bosnians
were massacred by Serbs, Russians killed and exiled the Circassians,
Abkhazians, and Laz, and Turks were killed and expelled from their
homelands by Russians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and Serbs. Yet, in the midst
of all this Muslim suffering, the political situation of the Ottoman
Armenians constantly improved. First, equal rights for Christians and
Jews were guaranteed in law. Equal rights increasingly became a
reality, as well. Christians took high places in the government. They
became ambassadors, treasury officials, even foreign ministers. In many
ways, in fact, the rights of Christians became greater than those of
the Muslims, because powerful European states intervened in their
behalf. The Europeans demanded and received special treatment for
Christians. Muslims had no such advantages.

That was the environment in which Armenians revolted against the
Ottoman Empire-hundreds of years of peace, economic superiority,
constantly improving political conditions. This would not seem to be a
cause for revolution. Yet the nineteenth century saw the beginning of
an Armenian revolution that was to culminate in disaster for both. What
drove the Armenians and the Turks apart ?

RUSSIAN EXPANSION

The Russians

First and foremost, there were the Russians. Regions where Christians
and Muslims had been living together in relative peace were torn
asunder when the Russians invaded the Caucasian Muslim lands. Most
Armenians were probably neutral, but a significant number took the side
of the Russians. Armenians served as spies and even provided armed
units of soldiers for the Russians. There were significant benefits for
the Armenians : The Russians took Erivan Province, today's Armenian
Republic, in 1828. They expelled Turks and gave the Turkish land,
tax-free, to Armenians. The Russians knew that if the Turks remained
they would always be the enemies of their conquerors, so they replaced
them with a friendly population-the Armenians.

The forced exile of the Muslims continued until the first days of World
War I : 300,000 Crimean Tatars, 1.2 million Circassians and Abkhazians,
40,000 Laz, 70,000 Turks. The Russians invaded Anatolia in the war of
1877-78, and once again many Armenians joined the Russian side. They
served as scouts and spies. Armenians became the "police" in
occupied territories, persecuting the Turkish population. The peace
treaty of 1878 gave much of Northeastern Anatolia back to the Ottomans.
The Armenians who had helped the Russians feared revenge and fled,
although the Turks did not, in fact, take any revenge. Both the Muslims
and the Armenians remembered the events of the Russian invasions.
Armenians could see that they would be more likely to prosper if the
Russians won. Free land, even if stolen from Muslims, was a powerful
incentive for Armenian farmers. Rebellious Ottoman Armenians had found
a powerful protector in Russia. Rebels also had a base in Russia from
which they could organize rebellion and smuggle men and guns into the
Ottoman Empire.

The Muslims knew that if the Russians were guardian angels for the
Armenians, they were devils for the Muslims. They could see that when
the Russians triumphed Muslims lost their lands and their lives. They
knew what would happen if the Russians came again. And they could see
that Armenians had been on the side of the Russians. Thus did 800 years
of peaceful coexistence disintegrate.

The Armenian Revolutionaries

It was not until Russian Armenians brought their nationalist ideology
to Eastern Anatolia that Armenian rebellion became a real threat to the
Ottoman State. Although there were others, two parties of nationalists
were to lead the Armenian rebellion. The first, the Hunchakian
Revolutionary Party, called the Hunchaks, was founded in Geneva,
Switzerland in 1887 by Armenians from Russia. The second, the Armenian
Revolutionary Federation, called the Dashnaks, was founded in the
Russian Empire, in Tiflis, in 1890. Both were Marxist. Their methods
were violent. The Hunchak and Dashnak Party Manifestos called for armed
revolution in the Ottoman Empire. Terrorism, including the murder of
both Ottoman officials and Armenians who opposed them, was part of the
party platforms. Although they were Marxists, both groups made
nationalism the most important part of their philosophy of revolution.
In this they were much like the nationalist revolutionaries of
Bulgaria, Macedonia, or Greece.

POPULATION

Unlike the Greek or Bulgarian revolutionaries, the Armenians had a
demographic problem. In Greece, the majority of the population was
Greek. In Bulgaria, the majority was Bulgarian. In the lands claimed by
the Armenians, however, Armenians were a fairly small minority. The
region that was called "Ottoman Armenia," the "Six Vilâyets"
of Sivas, Mamüretülaziz, Diyarbakir, Bitlis, Van, and Erzurum, was
only 17% Armenian. It was 78% Muslim. This was to have important
consequences for the Armenian revolution, because the only way to
create the "Armenia" the revolutionaries wanted was to expel the
Muslims who lived there. Anyone who doubts the intentions of the
revolutionaries need only look at their record-actions such as the
murder of one governor of Van Province and attempted murder of another,
murders of police chiefs and other officials, the attempted
assassination of sultan Abdülhamid II. These were radical nationalists
who were at war with the Ottoman State.

SMUGGLING ROUTES

Beginning in earnest in the 1890s, the Russian Armenian revolutionaries
began to infiltrate the Ottoman Empire. They smuggled rifles,
cartridges, dynamite, and fighters across ill-defended borders into
Van, Erzurum, and Bitlis provinces along the routes shown on the map.
The Ottomans were poorly equipped to fight them. The problem was
financial. The Ottomans still suffered from their terrible losses in
the 1877-78 War with Russia. They suffered from the Capitulations, from
debts, and from predatory European bankers. It must also be admitted
that the Ottomans were poor economists. The result was a lack of money
to support the new police and military units that were needed to fight
the revolutionaries and restrain Kurdish tribes. The number of soldiers
and gendarmes in the East was never sufficient, and they were often not
paid for months at a time. It was impossible to defeat the rebels with
so few resources.

By far the most successful of the revolutionaries were the Dashnaks.
Dashnaks from Russia were the leaders of rebellion. They were the
organizers and the "enforcers" who turned the Armenians of Anatolia
into rebel soldiers. This was not an easy task, because at first most
of the Ottoman Armenians had no wish to rebel. They preferred peace and
security and disapproved of the atheistic, socialist revolutionaries. A
feeling of separatism and even superiority among the Armenians helped
the revolutionaries, but the main weapon that turned the Armenians of
the East into rebels was terrorism. The prime cause that united the
Armenians against their government was fear.

Before the Armenians could be turned into rebels their traditional
loyalty to their Church and their Community leaders had to be
destroyed. The rebels realized that Armenians felt the most love and
respect for their Church, not for the revolution. The Dashnak Party
therefore resolved to take effective control of the Church. Most
clergymen, however, did not support the atheistic Dashnaks. The Church
could only be taken over through violence. What happened to Armenian
clergymen who opposed the Dashnaks ? Priests were killed in villages
and cities. Their crime ? They were loyal Ottoman subjects. The
Armenian bishop of Van, Boghos, was murdered by the revolutionaries in
his cathedral on Christmas Eve. His crime ? He was a loyal Ottoman
subject. The Dashnaks attempted to kill the Armenian Patriarch in
Istanbul, Malachia Ormanian. His crime ? He opposed the
revolutionaries. Arsen, the priest in charge of the important Akhtamar
Church in Van, the religious center of the Armenians in the Ottoman
East, was murdered by Ishkhan, one of the leaders of Van's Dashnaks.
His crime ? He opposed the Dashnaks. But there was an additional reason
to kill him : The Dashnaks wanted to take over the Armenian education
system that was based in Akhtamar. After Father Arsen was killed, the
Dashnak Aram Manukian, a man without known religious belief, became
head of the Armenian schools. He closed down religious education and
began revolutionary education. So-called "religious teachers"
spread throughout Van Province, teaching revolution, not religion. The
loyalty of the rebels was to the revolution. Not even their church was
safe from their attacks.

The other group that most threatened the power of the rebels was the
Armenian merchant class. As a group they favored the government. They
wanted peace and order, so that they could do business. They were the
traditional secular leaders of the Armenian Community ; the rebels
wanted to lead the Community themselves, so the merchants had to be
silenced. Those who most publicly supported their government, such as
Bedros Kapamaciyan, the Mayor of Van, and Armarak, the kaymakam of
Gevas, were assassinated, as were numerous Armenian policemen, at least
one Armenian Chief of Police, and Armenian advisors to the Government.
Only a very brave Armenian would take the side of the Government. The
Dashnaks looked on the merchants as a source of money. The merchants
would never donate to the revolution willingly. They had to be forced
to do so. The first reported case of extortion from merchants came in
Erzurum in 1895, soon after the Dashnak Party became active in the
Ottoman domains. The campaign began in earnest in 1901. In that year
the extortion of funds through threats and assassination became the
official policy of the Dashnak Party. The campaign was carried out in
Russia and the Balkans, as well as in the Ottoman Empire. One prominent
Armenian merchant, Isahag Zhamharian, refused to pay and reported the
Dashnaks to the police. He was assassinated in the courtyard of an
Armenian church. Others who did not pay were also killed. The rest of
the merchants then paid.

>From 1902 to 1904 the main extortion campaign brought in the
equivalent, in today's money, of more than eight million dollars. And
this was only the amount collected by the central Dashnak committee in
a short period, almost all from outside the Ottoman Empire. It does not
include the amounts extorted from 1895 to 1914 in many areas of the
Ottoman Empire. Soon the merchants were paying their taxes to the
revolutionaries, not to the government. When the government in Van
demanded that the merchants pay their taxes, the merchants pleaded that
they had indeed paid taxes, but to the revolutionaries. They said they
could only pay the government if the government protected them from the
rebels. The same condition prevailed all over Eastern Anatolia, in
Izmir, in Cilicia, and elsewhere.

The Armenian common people did not escape the extortions of the rebels.
They were forced to feed and house the revolutionaries. British Consul
Elliot reported, "They [the Dashnaks] quarter themselves on Christian
villages, live on the best to be had, exact contributions to their
funds, and make the younger women and girls submit to their will. Those
who incur their displeasure are murdered in cold blood."[1]

The greatest cost to villagers was the forced purchase of guns. The
villagers were turned into rebel "soldiers," whether they wished to
be or not. If they were to fight the Turks, they needed weapons. The
revolutionaries smuggled weapons from Russia and forced the Armenian
villagers to buy. The methods used to force the villagers to buy were
very effective, as British consul Seele reported :

An agent arrived in a certain village and informed a villager that he
must buy a Mauser pistol. The villager replied that he had no money,
whereupon the agent retorted, "You must sell your oxen." The
wretched villager then proceeded to explain that the sowing season
would soon arrive and asked how a Mauser pistol would enable him to
plough his fields. For reply the agent proceeded to destroy the poor
man's oxen with his pistol and then departed."[2] The rebels had
more than military organization in mind when they forced the villagers
to buy weapons. The villagers were charged double the normal cost of
the weapons. A rifle worth £5 was sold for £10. Both the rebel
organization and the rebels themselves did very well from the sales.

It was the peasants who suffered most. The most basic policy of the
revolutionaries was a callous exploitation of the lives of Armenians :
Kurdish tribes and their villages were attacked by the rebels, knowing
that the tribes would take their revenge on innocent Armenian
villagers. The revolutionaries escaped and left their fellow Armenians
to die. Even Europeans, friends of the Armenians, could see that the
revolutionaries were the cause of the curse that had descended on
Eastern Anatolia. Consul Seele wrote in 1911 : From what I have seen in
the parts of the country I have visited I have become more convinced
than ever of the baneful influence of the Taschnak Committee on the
welfare of the Armenians and generally of this part of Turkey. It is
impossible to overlook the fact in that in all places where there are
no Armenian political organisations or where such organisations are
imperfectly developed, the Armenians live in comparative harmony with
the Turks and Kurds.[3]

The Englishman rightly saw that the cause of the unrest in the East was
the Armenian revolutionaries. If there were no Dashnaks, the Turks and
Armenians would have lived together in peace. The Ottoman Government
knew this was true. Why did the Government tolerate so much from the
rebels ? Why did the Government not stamp them out ? The Ottoman
failure to effectively oppose the rebels is indeed hard to understand.
Imagine a country in which a number of radical revolutionaries, most of
them from a foreign country, organize a rebellion. They infiltrate
fighters and guns from this foreign country to lead their attack on the
government and the people. The radicals openly state they wish to
create a state in which the majority of the population will be excluded
from rule. They murder and terrorize their own people to force them to
join their cause. They murder government officials. They deliberately
murder members of the majority in the hope that reprisals will lead
other nations to invade. They store thousands of weapons in preparation
for revolt. They revolt, are defeated, then revolt again and again. The
country that gains most from the rebels' actions is the country they
come from-the country in which they organize, the country in which
they have their home base.

What government would tolerate this ? Has there ever been a country
that would not jail, and probably hang such rebels ? Has there ever
been a country that would allow them to continue to operate openly ?
Yes. That country was the Ottoman Empire. In the Ottoman Empire the
Armenian rebels operated openly, stored thousands of weapons, murdered
Muslims and Armenians, killed governors and other officials, and
rebelled again and again. The only one to truly benefit from their
actions was Russia-the country in which they organized, the country
their leaders came from.

How could this happen ? The Ottomans were not cowards. The Ottomans
were not fools. They knew what the rebels were doing. The Ottomans
tolerated the Armenian revolutionaries because the Ottomans had no
choice. It must be remembered that the very existence of the Ottoman
Empire was at stake. Serbia, Bosnia, Romania, Greece, and Bulgaria had
already been lost because of European intervention. The Europeans had
almost divided the Empire in 1878 and had planned to do so in the
1890s. Only fear that Russia would become too powerful had stopped
them. Public opinion in Britain and France could easily change that.
Indeed, that was exactly what the Armenian revolutionaries wanted. They
wanted the Ottomans to jail and execute Armenian rebels. European
newspapers would report that as government persecution of innocent
Armenians. They wanted the government to prosecute Armenian
revolutionary parties. The European newspapers would report that as
denying political freedom to the Armenians. They wanted Muslims to
react to Armenian provocations and attacks by killing Armenians. The
European newspapers would report only the dead Armenians, not the dead
Muslims. Public opinion would force the British and French to cooperate
with the Russians and dismember the Empire.

Many politicians in Europe, men such as Gladstone, were as prejudiced
against the Turks as were the press and the public. They were simply
waiting for the right opportunity to destroy the Ottoman Empire.

The result was that it was nearly impossible for the Ottomans to
properly punish the rebels. The Europeans demanded that the Ottomans
accept actions from the revolutionaries that the Europeans themselves
would never tolerate in their own possessions. When the Dashnaks
occupied the Ottoman Bank, Europeans arranged their release. European
ambassadors forced the Ottomans to grant amnesty to rebels in Zeytun.
They arranged pardons for those who attempted to kill sultan
Abdülhamid II. The Russian consuls would not let Ottoman courts try
Dashnak rebels, because they were Russian subjects. Many rebels who
were successfully tried and convicted were released, because the
Europeans demanded and received pardons for them, in essence
threatening the sultan if he did not release rebels and murderers. One
Russian consul in Van even publicly trained Armenian rebels, acting
personally as their weapons instructor.

All the Ottomans could do was try to keep things as quiet as possible.
That meant not punishing the rebels as they should have been punished.
One can only pity the Ottomans. They knew that if they governed
properly the result would be the death of their state.

World War I

There were two factors that caused the Ottoman loss in the East in
World War I : The first was Enver Pasa's disastrous attack at
Sarikamis. Enver's attack on Russia in December of 1914 was in every
way a disaster. Of the 95,000 Turkish troops who attacked Russia,
75,000 died. The second factor, the one that concerns us here, was
Armenian Revolt.

DESERTION ZONE

As World War I threatened and the Ottoman Army mobilized, Armenians who
should have served their country instead took the side of the Russians.
The Ottoman Army reported : "From Armenians with conscription
obligations those in towns and villages East of the
Hopa-Erzurum-Hinis-Van line did not comply with the call to enlist but
have proceeded East to the border to join the organization in
Russia." The effect of this is obvious : If the young Armenian males
of the "zone of desertion" had served in the Army, they would have
provided more than 50,000 troops. If they had served, there might never
have been a Sarikamis defeat. The Armenians from Hopa to Erzurum to
Hinis to Van were not the only Armenians who did not serve. The 10s of
thousands of Armenians of Sivas who formed chette bands did not serve.
The rebels in Zeytun and elsewhere in Cilicia did not serve. The
Armenians who fled to the Greek islands or to Egypt or Cyprus did not
serve. More precisely, many of these Armenian young men did serve, but
they served in the armies of the Ottomans' enemies. They did not
protect their homeland, they attacked it.

In Eastern Anatolia, Armenians formed bands to fight a guerilla war
against their government. Others fled only to return with the Russian
Army, serving as scouts and advance units for the Russian invaders. It
was those who stayed behind who were the greatest danger to the Ottoman
war effort and the greatest danger to the lives of the Muslims of
Eastern Anatolia. It has often been alleged by Armenian nationalists
that the Ottoman order to deport Armenians was not caused by Armenian
rebellion. As evidence, they note the fact that the law of deportation
was published in May of 1915, at approximately the same time that the
Armenians seized the City of Van. According to this logic, the Ottomans
must have planned the deportation some time before that date, so the
rebellion could not have been the cause of the deportations. It is true
that the Ottomans began to consider the possibility of deportation a
few months before May, 1915. What is not true is that May, 1915 was the
start of the Armenian rebellion. It had started long before.

European observers knew long before 1914 that Armenians would join the
Russian side in event of war. As early as 1908, British consul Dickson
had reported : The Armenian revolutionaries in Van and Salmas [in Iran]
have been informed by their Committee in Tiflis that in the event of
war they will side with the Russians against Turkey. Unaided by the
Russians, they could mobilize about 3,500 armed sharpshooters to harass
the Turks about the frontier, and their lines of communication.[4]
British diplomatic sources reported that in preparation for war, in
1913, the Armenian revolutionary groups met and agreed to coordinate
their efforts against the Ottomans. The British reported that this
alliance was the result of meetings with "the Russian authorities."
The Dashnak leader (and member of the Ottoman Parliament) Vramian had
gone to Tiflis to confer with the Russian authorities. The British also
reported that "[The Armenians] have thrown off any pretence of
loyalty they may once have shown, and openly welcome the prospect of a
Russian occupation of the Armenian Vilayets." [5] Even Dashnak
leaders admitted the Dashnaks were Russian allies. The Dashnak
Hovhannes Katchaznouni, prime minister of the Armenian Republic, stated
that the party plan at the beginning of the war was to ally with the
Russians. Since 1910 the revolutionaries had distributed a pamphlet
throughout Eastern Anatolia. It demonstrated how Armenian villages were
to be organized into regional commands, how Muslim villages were to be
attacked, and specifics of guerilla warfare. Before the war began,
Ottoman Army Intelligence reported on Dashnak plans : They would
declare their loyalty to the Ottoman State, but increase their arming
of their supporters. If war was declared, Armenian soldiers would
desert to the Russian Army with their arms. The Armenians would do
nothing if the Ottomans began to defeat the Russians. If the Ottomans
began to retreat, the Armenians would form armed guerilla bands and
attack according to plan. The Ottoman intelligence reports were
correct, for that is exactly what happened.

WAR

The Russians gave 2.4 million rubles to the Dashnaks to arm the Ottoman
Armenians. They began distributing weapons to Armenians in the Caucasus
and Iran in September of 1914. In that month, seven months before the
Deportations were ordered, Armenian attacks on Ottoman soldiers and
officials began. Deserters from the Ottoman Army at first formed into
what officials called "bandit gangs." They attacked conscription
officers, tax collectors, gendarmerie outposts, and Muslims on the
roads. By December a general revolt had erupted in Van Province. Roads
and telegraph lines were cut, gendarmerie outposts attacked, and Muslim
villages burned, their inhabitants killed. The revolt soon grew : in
December, near the Kotur Pass, which the Ottomans had to hold to defend
against Russian invasion from Iran, a large Armenian battle group
defeated units of the Ottoman army, killing 400 Ottoman soldiers and
forcing the army to retreat to Saray. The attacks were not only in Van
: The governor of Erzurum, Tahsin, cabled that he could not hold off
the Armenian attacks that were breaking out through the province ;
soldiers would have to be sent from the front. By February, reports of
attacks began to come in from all over the East-a two-hour battle
near Mus, an eight-hour battle in Abaak, 1,000 Armenians attacking near
Timar, Armenian chettes raiding in Sivas, Erzurum, Adana, Diyarbakir,
Bitlis, and Van provinces. Telegraph lines to the front and from
Ottoman cities to the West were cut, repaired, and cut again many
times. Supply caravans to the army were attacked, as were columns of
wounded soldiers. Units of gendarmerie and soldiers sent to reconnect
telegraph lines or protect supply columns themselves came under attack.
As an example of the enormity of the problem, in the middle of April an
entire division of gendarmerie troops was ordered from Hakkâri to
Çatak to battle a major uprising there, but the division could not
fight through the Armenian defenses. Once careful preparations had been
made, Armenians revolted in the City of Van. On April 20, well-armed
Armenian units, many wearing military uniforms, took the city and drove
Ottoman forces into the citadel. The rebels burned down most of the
city, some buildings also being destroyed by the two canons the
Ottomans had in the citadel. Troops were sent from the Erzurum and
Iranian Fronts, but they were unable to relieve the city. The Russians
and Armenians were advancing from the north and the southwest. On May
17 the Ottomans evacuated the citadel. Soldiers and civilians fought
their way southwest around Lake Van. Some took to boats on the Lake,
but nearly half of these were killed by rebels firing from the shore or
when their boats ran aground. Some of the Muslims of Van survived at
least for a while, put in the care of American missionaries. Most who
did not escape were killed. Villagers were either killed in their homes
or collected from surrounding areas and sent into the great massacre at
Zeve.

The ensuing suffering of the Muslims and Armenians is well known. It
was a history of bloody warfare between peoples in which all died in
great numbers. When the Ottomans retook much of the East, the Armenian
population fled to Russia. There they starved and died of disease. When
the Russians retook Van and Bitlis Provinces, they did not allow the
Armenians to return, leaving them to starve in the North. The Russians
wanted the land for themselves. It is also well known that Armenians
who remained, those in Erzurum Province, massacred Muslims in great
numbers at the end of the war. My purpose here is not to retell that
history. I wish to demonstrate that the Ottomans were right in
considering the Armenians to be their enemies, if further proof is
needed. The map shows proof that the Armenian rebels in fact were
agents of Russia. The Armenians of the Ottoman East rebelled in exactly
those areas that were most important to the Russians. The benefit of
the rebellion in Van City, the center of Ottoman Administration in the
Southeast is obvious. The other sites of rebellion were in reality more
important : Rebellion in Erzurum Province cut the Ottoman Army off from
supplies and communications. The rebellion was directly in the path of
the Russian advance from the North. The Armenians rebelled in the Saray
and Baskale regions, at the two major passes that the Russians were to
use in their invasion from Iran. The Armenians rebelled in the region
near Çatak, at the mountain passes needed for the Ottomans to bring up
troops to the Iran frontier, the passes needed for the Ottoman retreat.
The Armenians rebelled in great numbers in Sivas Province and in
Sebinkarahisar. This would seem to be an odd place for a revolt, a
region where the Armenians were outnumbered by the Muslims ten to one,
but Sivas was tactically important. It was the railhead from which all
supplies and men passed to the Front, basically along one road. It was
the prefect site for guerilla action to harass Ottoman supply lines.
The Armenians also rebelled in Cilicia, the intended site for a British
invasion that would have cut the rail links to the South. It was not
the fault of the rebels that the British preferred to attempt the
madness at Gallipoli instead of an attack in Cilicia that would surely
have been more successful. All these regions were the very spots a
military planner would choose to most damage the Ottoman war effort. It
cannot be an accident that they were also the spots chosen by the
rebels for their revolt. Anyone can see that the revolts were a
disaster for the Army. The disaster was compounded by the fact that the
Ottomans were forced to withdraw whole divisions from the Front to
battle the Armenian rebels. The war might have been much different if
these divisions had been able to fight the Russians, not the rebels. I
agree with Field-Marshall Pomiankowski, who was the only real European
historian of World War I in the Ottoman Empire, that the Armenian
rebellion was the key to the Ottoman defeat in the East. Only after
seven months of Armenian rebellion did the Ottomans order the
deportation of Armenians (May 26-30, 1915).

The Ottoman Record

How do we know that this analysis is true ? It is, after all, very
different than what is usually called the history of the Armenians. We
know it is true because it is the product of reasoned historical
analysis, not ideology. To understand this, we must consider the
difference between history and ideology, the difference between
scientific analysis and nationalist belief, the difference between the
proper historian and the ideologue. To the historian what matters is
the attempt to find the objective truth. To the nationalist ideologue
what matters is the triumph of his cause. A proper historian first
searches for evidence, then make up his mind. An ideologue first makes
up his mind, then looks for evidence.

A historian looks for historical context. In particular, he judges the
reliability of witnesses. He judges if those who gave reports had
reason to lie. An ideologue takes evidence wherever he can find it, and
may invent the evidence he cannot find. He does not look too closely at
the evidence, perhaps because he is afraid of what he will find. As an
example, the ideologues contend that the trials of Ottoman leaders
after World War I prove that the Turks were guilty of genocide. They do
not mention that the so-called trials reached their verdicts when the
British controlled Istanbul. They do not mention that the courts were
in the hands of the Quisling Damad Ferid Pasa government, which had a
long record of lying about its enemies, the Committee of Union and
Progress. They do not mention that Damad Ferid would do anything to
please the British and keep his job. They do not mention that the
British, more honest than their lackeys, admitted that they could not
find evidence of any "genocide." They do not mention that the
defendants were not represented by their own lawyers. They do not
mention that crimes against Armenians were only a small part of a long
list of so-called crimes, everything the judges could invent. The
ideologues do not mention that the courts should best be compared to
those convened by Josef Stalin. The ideologues do not mention this
evidence.

A historian first discovers what actually happened, then tries to
explain the reasons. An ideologue forgets the process of discovery. He
assumes that what he believes is correct, then constructs a theory to
explain it. The work of Dr. Taner Akçam is an example of this. He
first accepts completely the beliefs of the Armenian nationalists. He
then constructs an elaborate sociological theory, claiming that
genocide was the result of Turkish history and the Turkish character.
This sort of analysis is like a house built on a foundation of sand.
The house looks good, but the first strong wind knocks it down. In this
case, the strong wind that destroys the theory is the force of the
truth.

A historian knows that one has to look back in history, sometimes far
back in history, to find the causes of events. An ideologue does not
bother. Again, he may be afraid of what he will find. Reading the
Armenian Nationalists one would assume that the Armenian Question began
in 1894. Very seldom does one find in their work mention of Armenian
alliances with the Russians against the Turks stretching back to the
eighteenth century. One never finds recognition that it was the
Russians and the Armenians themselves who began to dissolve 700 years
of peace between Turks and Armenians. These are important matters for
the historian, but they hurt the cause of the ideologue. The historian
studies. The ideologue wages a political war. From the start the
Armenian Question has been a political campaign. Materials that have
been used to write the long-accepted and false history of the Armenian
Question were written as political documents. They were written for
political effect. Whether they were articles in the Dashnak newspaper
or false documents produced by the British Propaganda Office, they were
propaganda, not sources of accurate history. Historians have examined
and rejected all these so-called "historical sources." Yet the same
falsehoods continually appear as "proof" that there was an Armenian
Genocide. The lies have existed for so long, the lies have been
repeated so many times, that those who do not know the real history
assume that the lies are true. It is not only Americans and Europeans
who have been fooled. Recently I read a two-volume work written by a
Turkish scholar. Much of what appears on the Armenians is absolute
nonsense. For example, in 1908 in the City of Van, Ottoman officials
discovered an arsenal of Dashnak weapons-2,000 guns, hundreds of
thousands of cartridges, 5,000 bombs-all in preparation for an
Armenian revolt. Armenians rebels fought Ottoman troops briefly, then
fled. This event is described in all the diplomatic literature and
books on Van. The author, however, says what occurred was a revolt of
1,000 Turks ( !) against the government, and mentions no rebel weapons.
How could such a mistake be made ? It was because of the source. The
author took all information from the Dashnak Party newspaper ! We must
affirm a basic principle : Those who take propaganda as their source
themselves write propaganda, not history.

Too many scholars, Turks and non-Turks alike, have accepted the lies of
groups like the Dashnak Party and not even looked at the internal
reports of the Ottomans. Scholars have the right to make mistakes, but
scholars also have a duty to look at all sources of information before
they write. It is wrong to base writings on political propaganda and to
ignore the honest reports of the Ottomans. The first place to look for
Ottoman history should be the records of the Ottomans.

Why rely on Ottoman archival accounts to write history ? Because they
are the sort of solid data that is the basis of all good history. The
Ottomans did not write propaganda for today's media. The reports of
Ottoman soldiers and officials were not political documents or public
relations exercises. They were secret internal reports in which
responsible men relayed what they believed to be true to their
government. They might sometimes have been mistaken, but they were
never liars. There is no record of deliberate deception in Ottoman
documents. Compare this to the dismal history of Armenian Nationalist
deceptions : fake statistics on population, fake statements attributed
to Mustafa Kemal, fake telegrams of Talat Pasa, fake reports in a Blue
Book, misuse of court records and, worst of all, no mention of Turks
who were killed by Armenians.

I have been asked to make suggestions as to what Turks can do to
correct false history. I hesitate to do so, because Turks already know
what has to be done-opposing the lies that are told about their
ancestors. You are already doing it. It is a hard fight : The
prejudices about Turks stand in your way, and those who oppose you are
politically strong, but the truth is on your side. I am very pleased
that the Turks, and the Turkish Parliament, are uniting to oppose the
lies told about the Turks. The recent agreement between Prime Minister
Erdogan, and Minority Leader Baykal, prove that the Turks are taking
action. The attempt by the Tarih Kurumu to debate and discuss with
Armenian scholars proves that the Turks are taking action. The many
books on this issue now being printed by Turkish scholars prove that
the Turks are taking action. Men like Sükrü Elekdag are fighting for
the truth. I and others who have long opposed the lies are glad we are
not alone.

In the past, scholars, including myself, have proposed that Turkish and
Armenian historians, along with others who study this history, should
meet to research and debate the history of the Turks and Armenians.
Prime Minister Erdogan and Dr. Baykal have proposed that all archives
be opened to a joint commission on the Armenian Question. This is
exactly what should be done. Most important, they have declared that
historians should settle this question. They have also shown that Turks
have nothing to fear from the truth. We can only hope that scholarly
integrity will triumph over politics and the Armenian Nationalists will
join in debate. I am not hopeful they will do so. I recently gave two
talks at the University of Minnesota, a center of so-called "Armenian
Genocide Studies." Dr. Taner Akçam teaches there. Dr. Akçam was
invited to my lectures, but did not come. In fact, no Armenian came.
Instead all notices of the lecture were torn down, so that others would
not know I was speaking.

This is not a scholarly approach. It is political. The Armenian
Nationalists have decided that they will win their political fight if
no one knows there is a scholarly opposition to their ideology.
Therefore, Armenian Nationalists will only meet with Turks who first
state that Turks committed genocide. These are described in the
American and European press as "Turkish scholars." Readers are left
with the impression, a carefully-cultivated impression, that Turkish
scholars believe there was a genocide. Readers are left with the
impression that it is only the Turkish Government that denies there was
a genocide.

We know this is not true. Every year many books and articles are
published in Turkey that not only deny the "Armenian Genocide" but
document Armenian persecution of Turks. Conferences are held. Mass
graves of innocent Turks killed by Armenian Nationalists are found.
Museums and monuments are opened to commemorate the Turkish dead.
Historians who have seen the Ottoman archival records or read the
Turkish books on the Armenian Question do not accept the idea of a
genocide. They know that in wartime many Armenians were killed by
Turks, and that many Turks were killed by Armenians. They know that
this was war, not genocide.

Why do so many in my country and Europe believe that the small group of
Turks who accept the Armenian Nationalists beliefs represent Turkish
scholarship ? Why is it believed that these Turks speak for the real
beliefs of Turkish professors ? Part of the reason is prejudice.
Prejudice against Turks has existed for so long that it easy for people
to believe that Turks must have been guilty. Another reason, however,
is that few in Europe and America know that real Turkish scholarship on
this issue exists

Excellent work on the Armenian Question is now being written in Turkey.
As you know, for too long Turks did not study the history of the Turks
and Armenians. This has now changed. Anyone who has seen modern Turkish
work on the Armenian Question must be impressed. The Tarih Kurumu has
taken the lead in this, as it should. I obviously do not believe that
Turks should be the only ones who write Turkish history, but Turks
should be the main historians of Turkey. It is your country and your
history. The problem lies in bringing the excellent history now being
written in Turkey and the documents of Turkish history to scholars,
politicians, and the public in other countries. The problem is that
Turkish historians naturally write in Turkish, and Europeans and
Americans do not read Turkish. Should those who write the history of
Turkey read Turkish ? Yes, of course they should read Turkish. Should
they use the many books on Turkish history written in Turkish ? Yes, of
course they should do so. Should they understand all sides of an issue,
including the Turkish side, before they write ? Yes, because that is a
scholar's duty. Do they always do so ? No. In particular, most books
on the so-called "Armenian Genocide" do not refer to modern Turkish
studies. It is no use saying this is wrong. It is no use telling
scholars to learn Turkish. They will not or cannot do so. To be fair,
there are few places in my own country where Turkish is taught. The
only answer is that the Turkish books must be translated into other
languages, especially English, which is understood all over the world.

A start has been made. Today there are valuable books, originally in
Turkish, that have been translated. These include Esat Uras'
excellent, if now outdated, history, the recent publication on the
Armenian Question by the Turkish Parliament, the history written by the
Turkish Foreign Office, the late Kâmuran Gürün's Armenian File,
Orel and Yuca's Talat Pasa Telegrams, and others. The series of
Ottoman documents on the Armenian Question, translated and published by
the General Staff, the Ottoman Archives, the Tarih Kurumu, and the
Foreign Ministry, are perhaps the most valuable of all. But there are
so many others that are needed There are too many to list here, but I
note that even the memoirs of Kâzim Karabekir and Ahmet Refik have not
been translated. All these books should be read by the widest possible
audience. They should be translated.

And the translations must include books that seem to be on topics other
than the Armenian Question. There are no accurate and detailed military
histories of World War I in the Ottoman Empire in any European
language. What exists is often wrong, and not only wrong on the
Armenians. General histories of World War I, for example, name the
wrong generals, move troops to the wrong places, and never seem to
understand Ottoman strategy. They seldom mention the one most
significant factor in the war-the incredible strength and endurance
of Turkish soldiers. Why is this important to the Armenian Question ?
It is important because the danger from the Armenian rebellion and the
reason for the Armenian deportations cannot be understood unless the
military situation is understood. The Ottoman sources prove that the
Armenian rebellion was an essential part of the Russian military plan.
The Ottoman sources prove that the Armenian rebellion was an important
part of the Russian victory. The Ottoman sources prove that the
Armenian rebels were, in effect, soldiers in the Russian Army. There is
a series of military histories that accurately portray the events of
the Ottoman wars and the Turkish War of Independence-the histories
published by the Turkish General Staff- many volumes, filled with
great detail, many maps, and descriptions of Ottoman plans and actions.
These books are based on the reports of the Ottoman soldiers
themselves, not only on the reports of the Ottoman enemies. They should
be read by every historian of World War I. Yet these books are in
Turkish. If they are ever to be used in America and Europe, they must
be in English.

And there must be many more accurate and honest books on Turkey for
teachers and students in Europe and America. Only by telling the truth
to youth can the prejudices against Turks be finally ended. We have
made a start. The Istanbul Chambers of Commerce have financed the first
detailed book on Turkey for American teachers. Many more books are
needed. Finally, I wish to comment on current politics. Some may feel
that I should not do so. I am not a Turk, and this is surely a Turkish
problem. Nor am I a political scientist or a politician. I am a
historian. I am speaking on this problem because it is basically a
historical question. As a historian, I am infuriated when any group, or
any country, is ordered to lie about its history. The political problem
I am speaking of is the growing cry from Europe that Turkey must admit
the "Armenian Genocide" before it can enter the European Union. I
am angry that anyone can believe that accepting a lie about Turkish
history will somehow be a benefit to Europe or to Turkey. I know, and I
believe you know, that it will make matters much worse.

Today the Armenian Nationalists are proclaiming in the parliaments of
Europe and the Congress of the United States that they only want Turkey
to admit that genocide occurred, then all will be well. I once spoke to
an American official who told me that the Turks should say, "Yes, we
did it, sorry," and then forget it. I asked him if he thought the
Turks had committed genocide. He replied that he did not know and did
not care. I told him the Turks would never lie like that about their
fathers and grandfathers. He told me I was naïve. But he was the one
who was naïve, because he believed that the Armenian Nationalists
would be satisfied with an apology.

ARMENIAN CLAIMS

The plan of the Armenian Nationalists has not changed in more than 100
years. It is to create an Armenia in Eastern Anatolia and the Southern
Caucasus, regardless of the wishes of the people who live there. The
Armenian Nationalists have made their plan quite clear. First, the
Turkish Republic is to state that there was an "Armenian Genocide"
and to apologize for it. Second, the Turks are to pay reparations.
Third, an Armenian state is to be created. The Nationalists are very
specific on the borders of this state. The map you see is based on the
program of the Dashnak Party and the Armenian Republic. It shows what
the Armenian Nationalists claim. The map also shows the population of
the areas claimed in Turkey and the number of Armenians in the world.
If the Armenians were to be given what they claim, and if every
Armenian in the world were to come to Eastern Anatolia, their numbers
would still be only half of the number of those Turkish citizens who
live there now. Of course, the Armenians of California, Massachusetts,
and France would never come in great numbers to Eastern Anatolia. The
population of the new "Armenia" would be less than one-fourth
Armenian at best. Could such a state long exist ? Yes, it could exist,
but only if the Turks were expelled. That was the policy of the
Armenian Nationalists in 1915. It would be their policy tomorrow. We
should be very clear on Armenian claims. Their claims are not based on
history, because Armenians have not ruled in Eastern Anatolia for more
than 900 years. Their claims are not based on culture : Before the
revolutionaries and the Russians destroyed all peace, the Armenians and
Turks shared the same culture. Armenians were integrated into the
Ottoman system, and most of the Armenians spoke Turkish. They ate the
same food as the Turks, shared the same music, and lived in the same
sorts of houses. The Armenian claims are surely not based on a belief
in democracy : Armenians have not been a majority in Eastern Anatolia
for centuries, and they would be a small minority there now. Their
claims are based on their nationalist ideology. That ideology is
unchanging. It was the same in 1895 and 1915 as it is in 2005. They
believe there should be an "Armenia" in Eastern Turkey-no matter
the history, no matter the rights of the people who live there.

History teaches that the Armenian Nationalists will not stop their
claims if the Turks forget the truth and say there was an Armenian
Genocide. They will not cease to claim Erzurum and Van because the
Turks have apologized for a crime they did not commit. No. They will
increase their efforts. They will say, "The Turks have admitted they
did it. Now they must pay for their crimes." The same critics who now
say the Turks should admit genocide will say the Turks should pay
reparations. Then they will demand the Turks give Erzurum and Van and
Elazig and Sivas and Bitlis and Trabzon to Armenia.

I know the Turks will not give in to this pressure. The Turks will not
submit, because they know that to do so would simply be wrong. How can
it be right to become a member of an organization that demands you lie
as the price of admission ? Would any honest man join an organization
that said, "You can only join us if you first falsely say that your
father was a murderer ?"

I hope and trust that the European Union will reject the demands of the
Armenian Nationalists. I hope they will realize that the Armenian
Nationalists are not concerned with what is best for Europe. But
whatever the European Union demands, I have faith in the honor of the
Turks. What I know of the Turks tells me that they will never falsely
say there was an Armenian Genocide. I have faith in the honesty of the
Turks. I know that the Turks will resist demands to confess to a crime
they did not commit, no matter the price of honesty. I have faith in
the integrity of the Turks. I know that the Turks will not lie about
this history. I know that the Turks will never say their fathers were
murderers. I have that faith in the Turks.

REFERENCES [1] FO 424/196, Elliot to Currie, Tabreez, May 5, 1898. [2]
FO 195/2949, Molyneux-Seel to Lowther, Van, February 17, 1913. [3] FO
195/2375 Molyneux-Seele to Lowther, Van, 9 October 1911. [4] FO
195/2283, Dickson to O'Conor, Van, March 15, 1908. [5] FO 371/1783
Molyneux-Seele to Lowther, Van, 4 April, 1913.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: City to Pay $1.7 Million for hiSPanIC Drunk
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/38b5755faa4788d0
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 3:42 am
From: wallacescott

On 25 Mar 2006 13:41:01 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Frank Arthur wrote:
>> Obviously you hate Hispanics.
>
>Not exactly. It's "hispanic," for starters. The word's an adjective.
>It's hispanic morons with their "machismo" that abbreviated it.
>Liberal lexicographers allowed it into standard usage.
>
>And I'll be the first to admit that the women are about the most
>beautiful anywhere. There are good things about hispanic cultures,
>too, like its "good times" ethos, reminiscent of the "good ol' boy"
>outlook many cultures have, particularly among its lower classes.
>
>But the bad, in practice, far outweigh the theoretical good. Just read
>the newspaper and hispanics account for about a third of the dumbest
>things you'll ever read about. Remember the Wendy's finger lady? How
>about two weeks ago in NYC when these spics were found naked in the
>car, dead 'cause they left the engine on in the garage?? Etc.
>
>> Judges have awarded millions of dollars for people being the "victims" of
>> things like spilling hot coffee on themselves. Those millions go to Poles,
>> Greeks,Irish,Germans etc? Should these all be deported too? Or only
>> Mexicans?
>
>The problem is that they have a very irresponsible culture. The
>feeling is "hey, I'm pervo ricon [or dominwino or coldumbian or
>messican or brasillyan or whatever], you can't kill me"...basically,
>they act like drunks even when sober.
>
>So this translates into them thinking society-at-large is responsible
>for all the crap they bring on themselves.
>
>Kids flunking school? The educational system is failing their kids.
>
>Kids in jail? The correctional system is racist.
>
>Kids can't find work? The economy is racist.
>
>For just about any situation, there will be a corresponding hispanic
>outlook which sets a dangerous precedence, which outlook is rooted in
>this irresponsible culture of theirs.
>
>mexicans tend to be very hard workers. Talie pepweyuadwd by their ego !
hey don't have as much "black
>blood" as the other hispanics (i.e., that laid-back black culture).
>Actually, I think they're probably the best hispanics to have around,
>overall, if one must have any hispanics.
>
>White puerto ricans and dominicans can be good, too, but get too many
>of them together and the nigger in them comes out. I really think it's
>that african culture that's mixed up in their upbringing...with
>hispanics, it's usually the worst of all mixes where culture and any
>Jungian collective unconscious is concerned....
>
>Yes, every group has its rotten apples.except mexican they are all rotten
>
>Just that hispanics have a far greater proportion, per capita.
>
>In the meantime, NYC continues to shell out money to its spics in the
>form of welfare, tax breaks for their neighborhoods, affirmative action
>for their businesses, lawsuit settlements, etc., etc., etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ABORTO LEGAL ..¿PARA NO MORIR?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/95af50872ea54ae
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 10:31 pm
From: "PM"

ABORTO LEGAL ..¿PARA NO MORIR?

La RU-486 es conocida como el aborto farmacológico y se emplea como
método
de aborto hasta el día 49 del embarazo o séptima semana. A los dos días
de
ingerir una dosis, la madre ingiere misoprostol (Cytotec) para que el
embrión que la RU-486 ha matado sea expulsado como si fuera un parto.
Así de
fácil es matar a un bebé.
Escribe José Luis Hernangómez de Mateo

En EEUU ya van al menos siete madres fallecidas y casi mil
damnificadas.

La máxima autoridad en materia de fármacos de EEUU y el propio
fabricante de
la píldora han recibido cientos de informes sobre complicaciones
severas
relacionadas con la utilización de dicho fármaco y comienza a
plantearse su
retirada.

En España, más de 4.300 mujeres al año utilizan esta píldora mortal
para
matar a sus hijos con riesgos para ellas mismas.
Ninguna de estas mujeres es adecuadamente informada del riesgo de
muerte.
Los consentimientos informados ofrecidos en centros de aborto son
incompletos y no explican los graves riesgos mortales y psicológicos de
la
píldora RU-486. La mala información viola la Ley 41/2002 y la Ley
General de
Sanidad.
¿Hasta cuándo tanto muerte, tanto daño y tanta mentira?
--
THE MOST DANGEROUS ENNEMY OF HUMANITY :

ARE NOT THE NUCLEAR OR MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS,

BUT STUPIDITY, FOR WHICH EVERY MINUTE... MANY HUMANS GET HURT.

¿SE LIBERARAN ALGUN DIA DELA ESTUPIDEZ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Deport the Illegals
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7db05cf4996f8e36
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 7:46 pm
From: "Rob"

Thrasher Remailer wrote:
> It is high time that we deport the Illegals in this country.
> I see the scum demomstrating in our streets and flaunting our laws.
> They are leeches and criminals and have already demonstrated that they
> do not respect our laws.
> Deport every one of these bastards.

Please do not cross-post this to the alt.sports.hockey.nhl.ott-senators
newsgroup.

Thank you.

Rob

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fascist Turkish Dogs Killed again
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2d79b82a2e8127ea
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 3:46 am
From: "Ali Asker"

Turkish Dogs Kill 14 Kurdish Guerillas
The Associated Press
Saturday, March 25, 2006; 5:02 PM

ANKARA, Turkey -- Turkish dogs killed 14 Kurdish guerrillas in a clash in
southeastern Turkey, military authorities said Saturday.

The fighting occurred Friday and Saturday near the hamlet of Senyayla,
authorities said. Turkish soldiers found the bodies of 14 guerrillas from
the Kurdistan Workers Party on Saturday, officials said.

Meanwhile, a bomb blast at a restaurant in the southeastern city of Tunceli
injured a waitress, authorities said.

Nobody claimed responsibility for the attack, but suspicion fell on Kurdish
guerrillas in the area, according to the authorities.

Tensions have been running high in the Kurdish-dominated southeast, where
autonomy-seeking guerrillas recently have escalated attacks.

The fight for autonomy has claimed the lives of more than 37,000 people
since 1984. The PKK is considered a terrorist organization by Turkey, the
United States and the European Union.

The guerrillas are mainly based in northern Iraq and Turkey.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/25/AR2006032500716.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 8:16 pm
From: "rick murphy"

"From: Ali Asker (pasa_asker@lycos.com)
Subject: Re: Kuwerdish contribution to Oscar 2005
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian, soc.culture.kurdish,
soc.culture.turkish, soc.culture.iraq
Date: 2004-10-02 04:55:12 PST

We are the TERRORISTS...

We will divide Iran, Turkey, Syria and Iraq in to the pieces until
ever single individual is free from thought control, torture and
brain-washing! Every nation should have their own land where they can
practice their own culture. Iran has consist of about 20 some
different nations and we will tore them in to 20 different countries
and give mollahs a small land where they can practice their barbaric
religion to themselves and only harm temselves.

WE WILL BREAK IRAN IN TO THE PIECES!!! "

++++++++++++++++++

http://www.turkses.com/index.asp

The Terror Organization KADEK

1. General

Historical Background

The initial activities regarding the terror organization PKK have
started with the intellectual activities of some students defending the
Marxist-Leninist ideology within the Ankara's Democratic Patriotic
Students Association (ADYÖD) under the leadership of Abdullah ÖCALAN
since 1973.

Abdullah ÖCALAN and his friends declared the setting up of the
Kurdistan's Workers Party (PKK) during an illegal meeting held in the
Diyarbakir province, Lice district, Fis village on November 27, 1978
which was called 1 st. Congress.

The inital documents stating PKK's aim were the "The Way Of
Kurdistan's Revolution-Manifesto" and party program published in 1978.
According to the said program, the aim of the terror organization is to
found initially an independent Marxist-Leninist Kurdistan state in the
East and Southeast Anatolian regions in Turkey by using the method of
armed propaganda and to achieve subsequently its final goal of
establishing an "Independent United Kurdistan" through the unification
of the Kurdish states to be founded in neighboring countries.

To this end, the terror organization PKK having officially declared
the commencement of its armed activities following the bloody attacks
on the districts Eruh and Þemdinli on August 15, 1984 has determined
four-stage strategy in order to divide and destroy Turkey by trying to
gather some part of the people, who have been living in peace within
the country for thousands of years, on a separate territory under a
different flag claiming that they have allegedly a different identity.

According to the above-mentioned strategy, it has been intended to;

- Obtain certain cultural and social rights at the first stage,

- Set up an autonomy or another administrative system of federation
type at the second stage,

- Establish the alleged North Kurdistan in our territory at the
third stage and

- Found an independent and united Kurdistan state in the region to
include some parts of Iranian, Iraqi and Syrian territories at the
final stage.

To this end, the terror organization PKK has adopted the method of
separatism-based, three-phased armed propaganda which was called the
war of people, and based on violence directed against the regional
people. Accordingly, the terror organization PKK has aimed at.

- Completing strategic defense stage through armed propaganda,
alleged guerilla war and mobile war operations under the control of its
leading staff within the framework of its ideological ideas in the
first phase,

- Partially completing the process of establishing fronts and an
army and thus, creating the strategic balance which will provide the
balance of power between the security forces and the terror
organization in the second phase and,

- Establishing saved areas in the region after triggering public
risings wherever possible by escalating the conflicts and passing into
strategic attack state when seizing the authority in the third phase,

The terror organization which has increased its armed force over 8
thousand men and raised the violence it has used against the people
regardless of their being women, elder or children to the highest level
from 1992 has not been able to achieve the above-mentioned stages until
today due to the measures taken in accordance with the "Area
Superiority Concept" put into practice from 1994, and the operations
successfully conducted by security forces. As a result, the separatist
terror organization was forced to take the decision of unilateral
ceasefire four times in 1993, 1995, 1998 and finally on September 01,
1999 in order to preserve its terrorist power.

The terror organization desiring to exploit the alleged cease-fire
as an opportunity of recovery for tactical purposes has tried to prove
that it still maintains its existence by continuing its acts and
violence against the civilians and security forces in rural, on the one
hand, carrying out sabotage and bomb attacks in the cities, on the
other hand.

The Turkish Armed Forces has gained an important success in pulling
down the terror organization and its activities to a marginal level
through a successful military operation it has conducted under the
Turkish constitution and legislation to destroy the internal threat, by
acting in a way that ensures the simultaneous implementation of a
series of administrative, social and economic measures taken to prevent
the support being provided to the terror organization.

The last achievement of the Turkish Armed Forces in struggling
against terrorism was that head of the terror organization A. ÖCALAN,
who was deported from Syria, was taken to Turkey following his capture
in Kenya/Nairobi on February 15, 1999 and brought before the
independent court.

The terror organization, tending to resort again to violence during
the period when the head of the terror organization has been taken to
Turkey and brought before the judge, has been able to adapt itself to
the new situation in a short time within the framework of the defense
that head of the terror organization has made in the court and has
tried to reach its goal by exploiting Turkey's EU goal and certain
values such as human rights and democratic rights widely accepted by
the international community. Within the framework of his defense in the
court, the head of the terrorist organization has changed his tactic
and begun to articulate such concepts as "Democratic Republic" and
"Democratic Middle Eastern Union" in its defense to save himself from
capital punishment.

At the VII. Congress of the terror organization held in the Kandil
Mountain region in Iraq on January 02-23, 2000 during which the new
strategy of the terror organization was agreed, it was decided that;

- The armed activities should be resumed in case of execution of
head of the terrorist organization and.

- The Kurdistan's National Liberation Army (ARGK), the alleged
military flank of the terror organization should maintain its existence
under the title of "People Defense Forces (Hezi Parastini Gel-HP) and
the Kurdistan's National Liberation Front (ERNK), the alleged political
flank of the terror organization, which mainly carries out activities
in European countries under the "Kurdish Democratic People Union
(Yekita Democratic A Gele Kurd-YDK) until appropriate legal
arrangements regarding recognition of the Kurdish identity in Turkey
and constitutional guarantees are provided.

The legalization plan that the terror organization has developed
according to its new strategy agreed during its congress, provides for
the followings:

- Giving the message that it is ready to make peace with the
government of Turkish Republic in order to obtain the status of being
recognized as a party in national and international public opinion,

- Handing over some terrorists to the security forces to convince
the public opinion that it is allegedly ready to make peace,

- Making political studies within the People's Democratic Party
(HADEP), which has political connection with the terror organization,
or a similar legal organization, and cooperating with other political
parties,

- Making guiding studies within the municipalities governed by
HADEP to broaden grass roots,

- Having contacts and cooperating with intellectuals from all
circles in Turkey's democratization to ensure the alleged cultural
rights of Kurds being recognized,

- Demanding that the Turkish government should make legal changes
to prove its goodwill through the human rights organizations,

- Bringing up the education in Kurdish language,

- Ensuring the Kurdish identity coming to the fore by focusing on
cultural activities,

- Organizing campaigns in order to ensure the scope of the law of
amnesty being extended,

The terror organization has attempted by its new plan to reach its
final goal that it could not achieve through its armed struggle it has
been carrying out for 16 years, through legalization efforts. To this
end, it has increased its activities it has conducted under the title
of the "Democratic Republic" at home and under "Political Settlement (
Solution ) To The Kurdish Problem" abroad,

In the plan the terror organization developed under the name of
"Peace Project" on March 07, 2000 following the VII. Congress,

- The alleged "Kurdish Problem" and PKK terror are identified with
the Irish, Palestinian, East Timor and Basque problems and it is
requested that the related "Political Solution" initiatives should also
be taken in Turkey and,

- It is put forward that the settlement of the alleged Kurdish
problem in Turkey in accordance with the predictions of head of the
terror organization, Öcalan would also serve the settlement of the
problems in the Middle Eastern countries, and the "Democratic Middle
Eastern Union" to be set up in regional countries would lead to
economic, social and cultural developments,

- Subsequently, in its 2nd "Party Assembly" meeting held in North
Iraq in September 2000, the terror organization decided to be
reorganized to conceal its terrorist identity and began to term its
former structure with innocent titles,

- Assuming that the new strategy of the terror organization could
not be well understood and adopted by its mountain members, the terror
organization held the III. "Party Assembly" meeting between 27 February
and 03 March 2001 and focused on restructuring activities in accordance
with the decisions it took during the said meeting. In addition, the
terror organization, having assessed that the people movement
activities could not achieve the desired level, has intensified its
efforts to ensure its new strategy being accepted by its members and
supporters through a series of meetings.

In this context;

* The "Centralized Propaganda and Media Conference" was held
between 29 May and 07 June 2001 in order for the efforts in the media
field, that the terror organization considers to be insufficient, and
to reach an organized structure,

* The "1st Public Movement Conference" was held between 20 June and
02 July 2001 for the purpose of carrying out the acts and activities
the terror organization has started under the name of alleged 2nd Peace
Efforts, in a more organized manner through its supporters and
sympathizers who are directed by the front organizations,

* The "1st Public Defense Forces (HPG), Conference" was held
between 28 June and 12 July 2001 in order to develop a new structure by
making radical changes in the armed flank of the terror organization
from the armed group order and discipline to war tactics and
techniques,

* The "3rd Free Women Party (PJA) Conference" was held on July
11-22, 2001 to make the women organizations conducting activities in
legal and illegal fields more active and organized,

* The "1st Culture, Art and Folklore Conference" was held on 11-22
July 2001 in order to indoctrinate wider parts of the people with
separatist ideas and,

* The "6th National Conference" was held on August 05-22, 2001
under the leadership of the alleged Supreme Council of the terror
organization in order to coordinate the conferences to be held in line
with the activities the terror organization carries out in various
fields and to direct all organizational efforts towards public
movements,

- The above-mentioned conferences have drawn special attention as
the ones which have been held within the framework of preparations for
the 8th Congress of the terror organization PKK. According to the
decisions taken during the said conferences, various campaigns have
been organized primarily in Europe and subsequently in Turkey for the
purpose of gaining support for the requests of constitutional
recognition of the Kurdish identity and the use of Kurdish language as
the language of education. However, the terror organization has not
been able to reach the desired level of participation by the people.

- On the other hand, the terror organization has focused on
re-establishment of the terrorist groups not directly affected by the
security forces and on their armed training in raid, laying ambush and
sabotage. The disagreements arising within the terror organization,
PKK-KPU conflict and escape of nearly five hundred Syrian terrorists
from the terror organization in particular have been the noticeable
problems that the terror organization has faced within the period under
review.

- In the meantime, the defense that head of the terror organization
has developed for his trial lasting in the European Court of Human
Rights has been printed by the terrorist organization in a two-volume
book under the title of "From the Sumerian Monastic State To The
Democratic Republic", accepted as the second manifesto and begun to be
used as a guide document for all activities carried out by the terror
organization and as a basic document in the ideological training of the
terrorist organization's members and supporters.

- The 8th Congress preparations which have lasted for a long time
in accordance with the outline of the said defense of head of the
terrorist organization was held in the Kandil Mountain region in
Northern Iraq on April 04-10, 2002 with the participation of 285
terrorist's 106 of whom were women and 179 men as well as about 100
audiences,

- In the said congress during which the activities the terror
organization PKK has conducted in the past and report developed
according to the defense of head of the terror organization and
submitted to the congress have also been evaluated, it has been pointed
out that;

* The terror organization PKK has obtained some advantages like
raising of the Kurdish problem in international area as a result of the
armed struggle it has conducted since 1977,

* However, the ideology and modus operandi adopted by the terror
organization at the beginning have failed due to the collapse of the
former Soviet system and the anti-terror environment arising following
the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the US and,

* It has been the time that PKK would be replaced by a completely
new formation in order not to be included in the list of terrorist
organizations, and it must undergo restructuring beginning from its
ideology to its lowest-level units, including a change in its
organizational title,

* The "3rd Free Women Party (PJA) Conference" was held on July
11-22, 2001 to make the women organizations conducting activities in
legal and illegal fields more active and organized,

* The "1st Culture, Art and Folklore Conference" was held on 11-22
July 2001 in order to indoctrinate wider parts of the people with
separatist ideas and,

* The "6th National Conference" was held on August 05-22, 2001
under the leadership of the alleged Supreme Council of the terror
organization in order to coordinate the conferences to be held in line
with the activities the terror organization carries out in various
fields and to direct all organizational efforts towards public
movements,

- The above-mentioned conferences have drawn special attention as
the ones which have been held within the framework of preparations for
the 8th Congress of the terror organization PKK. According to the
decisions taken during the said conferences, various campaigns have
been organized primarily in Europe and subsequently in Turkey for the
purpose of gaining support for the requests of constitutional
recognition of the Kurdish identity and the use of Kurdish language as
the language of education. However, the terror organization has not
been able to reach the desired level of participation by the people.

- On the other hand, the terror organization has focused on
re-establishment of the terrorist groups not directly affected by the
security forces and on their armed training in raid, laying ambush and
sabotage. The disagreements arising within the terror organization,
PKK-KPU conflict and escape of nearly five hundred Syrian terrorists
from the terror organization in particular have been the noticeable
problems that the terror organization has faced within the period under
review.

- In the meantime, the defense that head of the terror organization
has developed for his trial lasting in the European Court of Human
Rights has been printed by the terrorist organization in a two-volume
book under the title of "From the Sumerian Monastic State To The
Democratic Republic", accepted as the second manifesto and begun to be
used as a guide document for all activities carried out by the terror
organization and as a basic document in the ideological training of the
terrorist organization's members and supporters.

- The 8th Congress preparations which have lasted for a long time
in accordance with the outline of the said defense of head of the
terrorist organization was held in the Kandil Mountain region in
Northern Iraq on April 04-10, 2002 with the participation of 285
terrorist's 106 of whom were women and 179 men as well as about 100
audiences,

- In the said congress during which the activities the terror
organization PKK has conducted in the past and report developed
according to the defense of head of the terror organization and
submitted to the congress have also been evaluated, it has been pointed
out that;

* The terror organization PKK has obtained some advantages like
raising of the Kurdish problem in international area as a result of the
armed struggle it has conducted since 1977,

* However, the ideology and modus operandi adopted by the terror
organization at the beginning have failed due to the collapse of the
former Soviet system and the anti-terror environment arising following
the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the US and,

* It has been the time that PKK would be replaced by a completely
new formation in order not to be included in the list of terrorist
organizations, and it must undergo restructuring beginning from its
ideology to its lowest-level units, including a change in its
organizational title,

- During its 8th Congress, the terror organization has stated that
PKK's role has ended under current circumstances and decided that;

* It will not use the title "PKK" in the activities it carries out
in every field from April 04, 2002 when the birthday of head of the
terrorists is,

* It will conduct its activities under the title "Kurdistan's
Freedom and Democracy Congress-KADEK" from now on in accordance with a
new program, statute and organization based on the solution of Kurdish
problem in line with the main points of the defense that head of the
terrorists has submitted to the European Court of Human Rights within
the existing borders in four countries,

* PKK considers KADEK as its sole legal representative and disposes
of its moral and physical acquisitions to KADEK. The terror
organization made a press conference in Belgium/Brussels on April 16,
2000 and publicized its decisions.

- In the meantime, the fact that the inclusion of the PKK in the
list of terrorist organizations developed by the European Union member
nations which was issued on May 4, 2002 has led the members of the
terrorist organizations into great concern regarding the possible
inclusion of KADEK in the list of terrorist organizations. For this
reason, the terror organization has immediately begun to make protests
against such nations as Denmark, Spain, the UK who have had an effect
on the related decision-making,

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Consumers are bracing for the new AT&T
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/289b35b54c526254
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 3:49 am
From: "ameijers"

"Purple Roses" <rzorto90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143335090.639200.108630@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> GregRo wrote:
> > On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 15:33:40 GMT, "bat" <bat@bats.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think the federal government would allow sbc/at&t to buy any
> > cable company. Insight, comcast, e.t.c.
>
>
> Since when federal laws mean any thing to these mega-corporations?
> These laws have been literally written by and for them. Public
> commissions exist only to calm the public and to offer some kind of
> "artifical" legitimacy to an organisation that is otherwise a very
> questionable operation. In principle, any kind of monopoly is not good
> for the consumers. If you control the communication infrastructure, you
> control virtually evreything, including freedom.
>
Just out of curiosity, Purple, is there anything about the U.S. that you
<do> like? I pulled up your last few dozen posts in this group, and every
single one seems to be a slam. Mind you, I'm well aware of the problems this
country has, but surely there must be SOMETHING you find acceptable, since
you post here so often, to a N.A. oriented group.

aem sends...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Prosecution of convert 'un-Islamic'
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f8e9e9c6b1d170fe
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 1:11 am
From: "Sam Rahul"

Prosecution of convert 'un-Islamic'
By Frank Walker
March 26, 2006

AUSTRALIAN Muslim leaders yesterday condemned moves in Afghanistan to execute a man who converted to Christianity.
The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils said the prosecution of Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan was "barbaric" and
"un-Islamic".

Spokesman Haset Sali called on the Australian Government to see if the Afghan prosecutors could be charged with crimes
against humanity unless the religious charges against Mr Rahman were dismissed.

"Such barbaric action by anyone seeking to quote Islam as supporting their criminal action needs to be dealt with as a
crime against humanity," Mr Sali said.

He said the Koran stated there must be "no compulsion in religion".

"The prosecution of Mr Rahman, seeking the death penalty against him for converting to Christianity is reminiscent of
the fascist era that caused the Second World War and the pointless death of 55 million people."

Mr Sali said Afghans should respect the sanctity of life.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/prosecution-of-convert-unislamic/2006/03/25/1143084045931.html#

==============================================================================
TOPIC: An American reaction to Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cad8f898e8679854
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 2:56 pm
From: "Neil Boss"

But the christian god forgives everything so it matters not ..

TheSecularist <abc123@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:dvrjl9$vsm$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>
> The difference being that when a "Christian" kills, he is directly
> contravening Christ's teachings (and is therefore not a true Christian)
but
> when a Muslim kills he is not doing anything different to what Mohammed
> preached or himself did.
>
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 2:58 pm
From: "Neil Boss"

Hunter01 what happened you are not crying about what this man has said !!!

Hunter01 loves to defend his Islamic brothers and sisters and is an
Australian. He also loves to see his country sell uranium to China.

grandslam <wannabersc@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1143203596.321297.62770@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> In the years since this first showed up, not one muslim has taken a
> step back to think about what this man said.
> I no longer wait for your help in finding out the truth about islam, I
> believe in the evidence that exists right before my eyes; islam
> kills.islam destroys. islam is Hitler on acid.
>
> They make a desert and call it "a peacefull religion".
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would HE have sent his children to Iraq ?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b1618eba9409b05d
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 4:01 am
From: "M.Butzin"

"ray" <xxxrayted@aol.com> wrote in message
news:xxxrayted-2AA91F.17270122032006@news.newsguy.com...
> In article <1304751.YyEzrzrcFH@minds.org>, Hugo <conscience@minds.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Would HE have sent his children to Iraq ?
>>
>> - Would he have been so eager for Collin Powell to present pictures of a
>> mobile gasoline filter and claim it was a mobile chemical weapons lab ??
>>
>> - Would he have been so eager for a 'easy' military victory, if he had
>> had
>> the Presidential wisdom to understand the real cost of war ??
>>
>> - Was landing on an aircraft carrier in a flight suite to announce the
>> fighting was over, worth the after math ??
>>
>> - Are the ten junior officers doing time for Abu Ghraib to protect
>> General
>> Miller, or the Administration who issued his orders ??
>>
>> - When would a President who uses the US flag as a teflon cover for his
>> decisions, ever admit to his first mistake ??
>
>
> Would you be willing to pay $6.00 per gallon for gasoline?
> --
> NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
>
Ray it's 3.50 a gal in terminator land......

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TYPICAL SAYANIM GETS AWAY WITH MURDER
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/303a41d498c901d
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 11:13 pm
From: "serwad"

"captain." <spammersmustdie@now.net> wrote in message
news:wLkVf.10683$%H.6360@clgrps13...
> here ya go spermy:
>
> http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1943510,00.html

Holy Quran does not call for death penalty. It is the pre islamic tradition
to kill traitors of the clan. Quran says "There is no compulsion in
religion" period!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SAYANIM
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8a494914ed8eb434
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 8:14 pm
From: "serwad"

--
'As democracy is perfected,the office of
the President represents,more and more
closely,the inner soul of the people. On
some great and gloriuos day, the plain
folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire, at last, and the White House
will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 8:15 pm
From: "serwad"

--
When a Jew has gentile in his clutches another jew may go to the same
gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that gentile shall be
ruined. For the property of the gentile, according to our law, belongs to no
one, and the first jew that passes, has full right to seize it.

Talmud, Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156

==============================================================================

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