soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:
* Iraq minister says US, Iraqi troops killed 37 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a33b2ac5d852549e
* Sending mentally ill soldiers back to Iraq - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/82712e74e8d3235
* Resources: Iraqi Database Documents Online - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fb42f470ece1ede7
* Iraq Suspends Talks after US Attacks Shiites - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8dad0a94506161b5
* London's Mayor Calls US Ambassador a "Little Crook" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee1ca4d7469f0a5
* Britain 'Complicit' in Camp Delta Rights Abuses - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e5152b73de2019ed
* Jobs That Americans Won't Do ?? Think Again - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5f87ba45eaeed9fb
* Conservatives for 9/11 Truth - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7442d75baa2e1b2b
* Apostate's Choice: Get Killed or Hide - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2c65c013a459027e
* GOVERNMENTS MUST RESPECT MINORITY RIGHTS TO BE RIGHTEOUS - Afghanistan and
China take heed! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d0843135830a26cf
* About Canadian pedophile J F M e z e i - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/98b8b82dacbd0be4
* Edmonton Losing Thousands of Jobs!! More to Go!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d42abb47da342a36
* American Professor: Armenian genocide is British propaganda - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9bd888e583866d37
* What makes a religion valid? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/692fbde3edebb694
* ABUSING FREEDOM, FALSIFYING GODS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8b0530da4d485200
* We're FRICKED, peoplez !!!!!!!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6b3ac486f8a62a5e
* Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
* Visoki Standardi Engleskih Kraljevskih Govnara - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7dce8cf1b679339a
* EINSTEIN THE PLAGIARIST - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/06977e5534cc4c18
* GOP Split Over Religion's Growing Role in Their Party - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/4c2be3bce0cb83f8
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TOPIC: Iraq minister says US, Iraqi troops killed 37
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a33b2ac5d852549e
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 8:49 pm
From: NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org
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Iraq minister says US, Iraqi troops killed 37
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
Reuters via Info Clearing House - Mar 27, 2006
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12515.htm
Iraq minister says US, Iraqi troops killed 37
By Reuters
03/27/06 -- BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's security minister, a Shi'ite
political ally of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, accused U.S. and Iraqi
troops on Monday of killing 37 unarmed people in an attack on a mosque
complex a day earlier.
"At evening prayers, American soldiers accompanied by Iraqi troops raided
the Mustafa mosque and killed 37 people," Abd al-Karim al-Enzi, minister of
state for national security, said.
"They were all unarmed. Nobody fired a single shot at them (the troops).
They went in, tied up the people and shot them all. They did not leave any
wounded behind," he told Reuters.
Shi'ite politicians had earlier said 20 people were killed at the mosque.
The U.S. military's account of Sunday evening's incident said Iraqi special
forces with U.S. advisers killed 16 "insurgents", arrested 15 people and
freed an Iraqi hostage. The military denied entering any mosque.
© Reuters 2006.
*
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TOPIC: Sending mentally ill soldiers back to Iraq
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/82712e74e8d3235
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 8:49 pm
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Sending mentally ill soldiers back to Iraq
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
Information Clearing House - Mar 27, 2006
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12517.htm
Sending mentally ill soldiers back to Iraq
Reckless disregard for soldiers welfare and for Iraqi lives
By Stephen Soldz
03/27/06 "ICH" -- -- As the US military has difficulties recruiting and
retaining soldiers for its never-ending war of occupation in Iraq, the armed
services are resorting to increasingly desperate means of coping. The
Stop-Loss option in soldiers contracts has allowed soldiers to be kept in
uniform months or years after their term of service has expired. The
National Guard has been sent overseas to a previously unprecedented extent.
And military standards have been lowered, so that drug or alcohol abuse,
pregnancy, and poor fitness no longer necessarily lead to dismissal of new
recruits.
Now word comes that mentally ill troops are being sent back to Iraq. [See:
Some troops headed back to Iraq are mentally ill] This article refers to a
little-discussed truth fraught with implications, but the implications
discussed all have to do with the effects on the soldiers being returned,
and these soldiers effectiveness in combat. In many instances, being
returned to combat, and to a state of constant tension, will exacerbate the
soldiers problems, the article -- correctly -- suggests.
The article indicates that the military is putting pressure on mental health
professionals treating these soldiers to minimize the extent of their
problems and to declare them fit for return to Iraq and combat. For example,
some Army doctors are reporting that they are being told to diagnose
combat-stress reaction instead of the more serious post-traumatic stress
disorder (PTSD). Further, the article reports that professionals treating
emotionally disturbed soldiers are under pressure to approve their
redeployment to Iraq. I have written about the moral issues involved in
mental health treatment of soldiers in Iraq [To Heal or To Patch: Military
Mental Health Workers in Iraq]. The issues are similar for those treating
the soldiers when they return if the professionals play any role in deciding
whether or not the soldiers should return to combat. The mental health
professionals are not in a position to make unbiased judgments as to a
soldiers readiness to return to combat when their own status and
advancement in the military may depend upon how they exercise that judgment.
One implication not even mentioned in the article is that sending
mentally ill soldiers back into combat puts not only the soldiers own
mental health at risk, but endangers Iraqis as well. What is the quality of
decision-making by highly stressed soldiers, whether they suffer from PTSD
or only from combat-stress reaction? These soldiers are armed with lethal
weapons and are often in a position to make split-second life-or-death
decisions. After all, stress is often used as a defense when other armed
authorities, such as police, are caught engaging in abusive or even
murderous behavior. Surely the effects of stress can only be magnified on
soldiers who spend a year or more being assigned to a country where they can
never feel entirely safe.
We know from the memoirs of US soldiers in Iraq how alienated from Iraqis
they feel. Thus, Colby Buzzell, in his My War: Killing Time in Iraq
describes being hit with the realization that Im on the other side of the
planet far away from home, and that Im a stranger in a really strange land
(p. 297).
These strangers feel so alienated from Iraqis that they have a number of
names for them. As Kayla Williams tells us in Love My Rifle More Than You:
Young and Female in the US Army:
[W]e called them hajjis, but we also called them sadiqis
or habibis
. We
called them towelheads. Ragheads. Camel jockeys. The fucking locals. Words
that didnt see our enemy as people as somebodys father or son or brother
or uncle (p. 200; emphasis in original).
Of course, it isnt only the enemy that terms like these describe, and who
aren't seen as people. Ordinary Iraqis of all stripes are characterized as
the hajjis or the fucking locals.
Not surprisingly, in such a climate of alienation combined with pervasive
never-ending danger, even mentally healthy soldiers have emotional
difficulties. For example, Jason Christopher Hartley, author of the memoir
Just Another Soldier: A Year on the Ground in Iraq, describes attempting to
refuse leave:
[I]n all honesty, I did it because I didnt want to leave Iraq. One of the
ways to cope with being in combat is to go crazy just a tiny bit and learn
to enjoy the work
I was afraid that if I left, it would be difficult to get
back into the combat is fun way of thinking when I returned (p. 279).
If Hartley, by all indications a mentally healthy soldier, was only able to
survive by going a bit crazy and, in his case, cultivating a love of combat,
what happens to an emotionally disturbed soldier returned to that
crazy-making environment? Does (s)he cower in terror, perhaps shooting at
stimuli little more dangerous than his or her shadow, even if those stimuli
happen to be Iraqi civilians? Or does (s)he perhaps cultivate an even
greater love for combat, shooting at Iraqis as an expression of a game
necessary to transform the pervasive fear? Undoubtedly each of these paths
is chosen by some. Either possibility will increase the odds of adding to
the massive Iraqi civilian casualties being generated by this war of
occupation, estimated at about 100,000 in September 2004 and considerably
higher at this point. [See my 100,000 Iraqis Dead: Should We Believe It? and
When Promoting Truth Obscures the Truth: More on Iraqi Body Count and Iraqi
Deaths and Les Roberts: The Iraq War: Do Iraqi Civilian Casualties Matter?]
Soldiers in Iraq routinely make split-second decisions whether to shoot or
not, such as at the innumerable checkpoints or when on convoy. We already
know from a study published in the July 1, 2004 New England Journal of
Medicine [Combat Duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, Mental Health Problems, and
Barriers to Care: see their Table 2] that 14% of Army soldiers and 28% of
Marines returning from Iraq reported being responsible for the death of a
noncombatant. To deploy mentally unstable soldiers [not to mention those
with drug or alcohol problems] likely will increase these horrific numbers.
This policy of returning potentially unstable soldiers to combat in Iraq is,
thus, not only a serious threat to the mental health of the soldiers, but a
threat to occupied Iraqis. This policy, already reprehensible because of the
danger it poses to the long-term mental health of the US troops, is also in
its reckless disregard for Iraqi lives yet another example of the
innumerable war crimes being committed against the Iraqi people.
[Stephen Soldz is psychoanalyst, psychologist, public health researcher, and
faculty member at the Institute for the Study of Violence of the Boston
Graduate School of Psychoanalysis. He is a member of Roslindale Neighbors
for Peace and Justice and founder of Psychoanalysts for Peace and Justice.
He maintains the Iraq Occupation and Resistance Report web page and the
Psyche, Science, and Society blog.]
*
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TOPIC: Resources: Iraqi Database Documents Online
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fb42f470ece1ede7
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 8:50 pm
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Resources: Iraqi Database Documents Online
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
Resources: Iraqi Database Documents Online
Documents from the Foreign Military Studies Office (US Army)
http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm
Documents from the Harmony Database
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/harmony_docs.asp
*
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Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us
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TOPIC: Iraq Suspends Talks after US Attacks Shiites
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8dad0a94506161b5
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 8:50 pm
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Iraq Suspends Talks after US Attacks Shiites
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
The International Herald Tribune - Mar 28, 2006
http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2006/03/27/news/iraq.php
Iraq Shiites enraged by U.S. assault
By Kirk Semple
The New York Times
BAGHDAD Frayed relations between Iraq's Shiite leadership and the American
authorities came under increased strain on Monday as Shiite leaders angrily
denounced a joint American-Iraqi raid on a Shiite compound and suspended
negotiations over a new government.
The raid on Sunday evening, which killed at least 16 people, also prompted
the governor of Baghdad to announce a halt in cooperation with the American
authorities, and Shiite militiamen to brandish their weapons in the streets
of eastern Baghdad and declare their readiness to retaliate against American
troops.
The suspension of the difficult talks over the formation of a full four-year
government prolonged a power vacuum that American and Iraqi officials said
had created a fertile environment for a recent surge in lawlessness and
sectarian violence.
In the village of Kasak, between Mosul and Tal Afar, a man wrapped in
explosives detonated himself at an army recruitment center on Monday,
killing at least 40 people and wounding at least 30, an official at the
Interior Ministry said. The center is situated in front of a joint
American-Iraqi base, though the American military said that no American
troops had been wounded.
President Jalal Talabani said he would lead a joint Iraqi-American committee
to investigate the Sunday evening raid, as American and Iraqi authorities
continued to offer wildly conflicting accounts of it. Shiites said the
victims were civilians gathered in a mosque, while the Americans said they
were insurgents holed up in a guerrilla headquarters. Iraqi leaders said
they would reassess the pause in political talks on a day-by-day basis.
The tension between the American authorities and the Shiite political
leadership has many sources. The United States ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay
Khalilzad, has been pressing the government of Prime Minister Ibrahim
al-Jaafari, a Shiite, to crack down on Shiite militias and rid the Interior
Ministry of militia influence.
The militias, and their fighters working within the government's security
forces, have been accused of conducting a dirty war against Sunni Arabs
through kidnappings and executions, and thereby helping to push the country
toward all-out civil war.
In addition, Khalilzad has been urging the Shiite leaders to be more
politically accommodating to Sunni Arabs. In the aftermath of the bombing of
a major Shiite shrine last month, Shiite leaders began to lash out at the
ambassador for his insistence on working with the Sunnis and defended their
use of militias for self-defense.
Some Shiite leaders warned that the raid had been widely interpreted among
their constituents as a strong-arm tactic to cow them into making political
concessions, including forcing the largest Shiite bloc to drop Jaafari as
its nominee for prime minister in the new government. They demanded that the
American authorities give a public and transparent accounting of the raid.
"There was something tragically wrong, and it's got to be explained or it's
going to be seen by many to be a crackdown on certain political factions in
Iraqi politics," said Haydar al-Abadi, a top adviser to Jaafari. "We are
facing a crisis."
President Talabani said at a news conference that Gen. George W. Casey Jr.
agreed to the formation of the joint investigative committee, which was
confirmed by a spokeswoman for the American Embassy. "I will personally
supervise, and we will learn who was responsible," the president said.
"Those who are behind this attack must be brought to justice and punished."
The governor of Baghdad, Hussein al-Tahaan, said he was suspending
cooperation with the American authorities "due to the aggression that the
innocent people and worshipers were subjected to." The practical effects of
the move remained unclear, though it would likely have symbolic resonance.
The raid on Sunday happened at the Mustafa husayniyah, a small Shiite
community center and mosque in Ur, a predominantly Shiite neighborhood in
northeastern Baghdad.
The mosque, with a small minaret, is built around a central open-air
courtyard and was frequented by followers of the radical Shiite cleric
Moktada al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army militia. Sadr led two major armed
uprisings against American troops in 2004 and has become one of the most
powerful political forces in the country.
An imam at the mosque, Sheikh Safaa al-Tamimi, said he fled the building
when the troops arrived Sunday evening, but returned after the shooting was
over and saw bodies in several different rooms. Adel Abu al-Hassan, 34, the
supervisor of the mosque and a prayer caller, was outside the mosque during
the siege but said he, too, returned to find bodies scattered around the
complex.
On Sunday, the Interior Ministry reported that an 80-year-old imam had been
among those killed at the compound.
A reporter visiting the mosque on Monday saw blood stains in rooms and on
rugs that had been hauled into the courtyard, bullet-pocked walls and even a
piece of human brain in a pool of blood on the tile floor of an office used
by a Shiite political party, the Iraq Branch of the Islamic Dawa Party.
In a conference call with reporters in Baghdad late Monday, Lt. Gen. Peter
Chiarelli, commander of the day-to-day operations of the multinational
forces in Iraq, said the building was "an office complex," and not a mosque.
He said the raid, which involved about 50 troops from the Iraqi Special
Forces, assisted by about 25 American advisers, explosives technicians and
medical personnel, singled out an insurgent group that was using the
building as a base of operations for conducting kidnappings and executions.
General Chiarelli said that as the troops approached the complex, they came
under fire from "several buildings" in the area. The troops killed 16
insurgents, wounded three, detained 18 other people, discovered a weapons
stockpile and freed a dental technician who was being held hostage there, he
said.
The soldiers were met with gunfire from many rooms in the building, American
commanders said. "The Iraqi forces did the fighting, make no bones about
it," the general said, adding that the dead were all killed by Iraqi troops.
General Chiarelli said he did not know which organization the insurgents
represented. "What I know is that we had a terrorist organization that's
involved in executions and murders and was holding a hostage," he stated.
The general said he believed that the scene was disrupted after the raid to
make the building look like something other than a terrorist headquarters,
although he did not give details on how it was done. "After the fact someone
went in and made the scene look different than it was, for whatever
purposes," he said.
But Iraqi government officials and political leaders vociferously disputed
the American command's version of events, insisting that Iraqi and American
troops had raided a mosque, not a fortified office complex, as a political
party meeting was under way and unarmed worshipers gathered for evening
prayer.
Khudair al-Khuzaie, the spokesman for the Iraq Branch of the Islamic Dawa
Party, said he knew of 16 victims, all of whom had been attending a meeting
in the party's office at the time of the raid. The office is accessible
through a doorway from the mosque's courtyard. Of the victims, he said, 13
were party members and 3 were civilians.
Jawad al-Maliki, a deputy to Prime Minister Jaafari's Dawa Party, accused
the American command of committing "an ugly crime" that "has dangerous
political and security dimensions intended to ignite the fire of civil war."
In the hours after the attack, an official in the office of Sadr claimed
that members of his Mahdi Army were among the victims. But on Monday,
another Sadr representative said no Mahdi Army fighters died in the raid.
Mahdi fighters brandishing weapons took to the streets in Ur and Sadr City
in a show of force and warned they were prepared to attack American troops.
Many accompanied a solemn and tense funeral cortege for the victims through
the streets of Ur.
But Shiite leaders, including Sadr, urged calm.
"We are ready to resist the Americans and strike their bases," vowed Katheer
Abdul-Ridha, 22, a member of the Mahdi Army, who was guarding a roadblock in
Sadr City. "The Sunnis have nothing to do with this, and we shouldn't accuse
them of everything that's going on."
Khalilzad has been pressuring Iraqi leaders to rein in the militias. On
Saturday, he declared that more Iraqis were dying from militia violence than
from the insurgency.
In the carnage at the northern recruitment center, Gen. Muhammad al-Dosaki,
deputy commander of the Third Division of the Iraqi Army, said the suicide
bomber waded into a crowd of about 70 applicants who had gathered outside
the center and detonated a vest of explosives.
And in Baghdad, Iraqi police recruits stumbled across nine bodies, all
garroted, an official in the Interior Ministry said. At least 267 bodies
showing signs of execution-style killings have been recovered in Baghdad in
the past three weeks.
In southern Baghdad, a missile hit a building containing two offices of the
Shiite-led Fadhila and Dawa parties, killing 6 people and wounding 12, an
Iraqi police official in Zafaraniya said.
[Reporting for this article was contributed by Khalid al-Ansary, Hosham
Hussein, Qais Mizher, Abdul Omar al-Neami and Razzaq al-Saiedi from Baghdad,
and an Iraqi employee of The New York Times from Mosul.]
Copyright © 2006 The International Herald Tribune
*
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TOPIC: London's Mayor Calls US Ambassador a "Little Crook"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee1ca4d7469f0a5
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 8:50 pm
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London's Mayor Calls US Ambassador a "Little Crook"
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
sent by Simon McGuinness (Ireland)
[It is hard to know which term of abuse is worse: "a car salesman", an
"ally of President Bush" or a "chiseling little crook". Either way,
citizens of the USA can rest assured that they are represented abroad by
persons with a similar level of respect for the law as their President.
Given the tangential reference to Iraq, I suspect this is a deliberate
provocation by a master in the use of such undiplomatic language to
create a diplomatic incident with the intent of exposing Tony Blair as a
lame duck. Livingstone may even be making a pitch for leadership of the
Labour Party. The trap is set, lets see who falls into it. Enjoy!
Simon McGuinness.]
The Independent - 28 March 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article354115.ece
'A little crook': Ken's undiplomatic name for US ambassador
By Helen McCormack
The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, launched an attack on the US
Ambassador yesterday, accusing him of being a "chiselling little crook".
Mr Livingstone, who was spared a suspension last month after being
accused of anti-semitism, also likened Robert Tuttle to a car salesman.
His comments relate to a row over whether the American Embassy should
pay the £8-a-day congestion charge. The embassy stopped paying the
charge for the officials shortly before the new ambassador arrived in
London to take up his post last July.
Earlier, speaking at the unveiling of the new Wembley Park station
yesterday, Mr Livingstone queried the motivation for the decision to
stop making the payments. He said: "This new ambassador is a car
salesman and an ally of President Bush. This is clearly a political
decision. When British troops are putting their lives on the line for
American foreign policy it would be quite nice if they paid the
congestion charge," he said. "We will find a way of getting them into
court either here or in America. We are not going to have them evade
their responsibilities."
The US embassy is arguing that the congestion charge is a tax and as
such should not apply to diplomats, whom it says are exempt. But Mr
Livingstone contends that the charge is a payment for a service as it is
aimed at reducing traffic, and should therefore be paid. Defending the
decision to withhold the charge, US Embassy spokesman Rick Roberts said:
"Mr Livingstone is wrong to say this has anything to do with the arrival
of our new ambassador Robert Tuttle."
"We don't impose tax on British envoys [in America] and we don't expect
to be taxed here," he said.
Staff paid the charge up until July last year but a "unilateral"
decision was taken to stop payments after negotiations with the GLA
broke down, Mr Roberts said, adding that local London staff pay the
charge.
Mr Livingstone was later interviewed by ITV News, in which he was
reported as saying: "It would be quite nice if the American ambassador
in Britain could pay the charge that everybody else is paying and not
try and [evade] it like some chiseling little crook."
Germany's embassy also refuses to pay the toll, but it is less of a
problem as the country's embassy is outside London's toll zone, said
Michael Fluegger, a German embassy spokesman.
Last week Mr Livingstone told the Reuben brothers, Jewish businessmen
originally from India, that they should "go back to Iran and see if they
can do better under the Ayatollahs".
*
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TOPIC: Britain 'Complicit' in Camp Delta Rights Abuses
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e5152b73de2019ed
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 8:50 pm
From: NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Britain 'Complicit' in Camp Delta Rights Abuses
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
The Independent - 28 March 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article354076.ece
Britain 'complicit' in human rights abuses at Camp Delta
By Jerome Taylor
Britain has been complicit in the human rights abuses committed by US
authorities at Guantanamo Bay prison camp, according to a report
released today.
Drawing on exhaustive interviews with detainees and evidence from
security services, the dossier gives the complete picture of the British
government's co- operation with the US over a camp it now says should be
closed.
The report, Fabricating Terrorism - British Complicity in Renditions and
Terror, is a scathing indictment of the British government's "systematic
violations of international law" over its co-operation with the US
authorities in the detention of British citizens and residents at the
US-run facility in Cuba. The research, compiled by the human rights
group Cage Prisoners, plots British involvement in the cases of 13
current or former Guantanamo detainees - either British citizens or
residents.
All the detainees in the report consistently testified that UK
authorities were aware of their plight and unwilling to intervene
despite the knowledge that they were either at risk of torture or said
they had been tortured.
There is no suggestion British authorities played any part in torturing
the detainees but the report does argue consistent co-operation between
the US and UK has led to an "international chain of abuse" that flies in
the face of the British government projecting itself as a leader in the
field of human rights.
One of the most serious cases surrounds the rendition, imprisonment and
alleged torture of Benyam Mohammed al-Habashi, an Ethiopian national
with British residency, who was arrested in April 2002 as he tried to
leave Pakistan. Benyam was later "rendered" to Morocco and Afghanistan
before arriving in Guantanamo in September 2004. Mr al-Habashi claims
that, while in a secret detention facility south of the Moroccan capital
Rabat, he was brutally tortured by his interrogators as they asked
questions that could only have been supplied by the British.
In December last year, Jack Straw was forced to admit that MI6 had
interrogated Mr al-Habashi in Pakistan before he was sent to Morocco but
insisted the security services "did not observe any abuse".
Clive Stafford Smith, Mr al-Habashi's lawyer, argues that the nature of
his client's imprisonment in Morocco makes the British government
complicit in his torture. "The British government was complicit in some
of the abuses that took place against Benyam ... to the extent that the
Government told the Moroccans information that they would use against
him in the torture sessions." Now on hunger strike, Mr al-Habashi is one
of 10 Guantanamo detainees waiting to be tried by a US Military
Commission.
Two British residents, Omar Deghayes and Shaker Aamer, both still
incarcerated in Guantanamo also say they were questioned by British
authorities before their rendition and imprisonment in Guantanamo.
Similarly, many of those who have since been released without charge
also accuse London of knowing well in advance that they were being
transported to Cuba.
The latest findings show mounting evidence of consistent involvement and
presence of UK officials in run up to the transfer of many British
citizens and residents to Guantanamo. "In nearly every single case," the
report says, "British intelligence was fully aware of the status of
these individuals and still allowed for their transfer."
Geoffrey Bindman, the chairman of the British Institute of Human Rights,
argues that each case study shows a worrying level of UK collusion. "If
substantiated," he writes in the report's forward, "they demonstrate an
intolerable level of collaboration and collusion between the UK and US
authorities in the abuses which have taken place at Guantanamo and
elsewhere through the 'outsourcing' of torture.
"They also demonstrate a pathetic reluctance on the part of the UK
government to stand up for the rights of its citizens and permanent
residents against illegal and unacceptable treatment."
The government has argued it is unable to intervene on behalf of those
British residents still left in Guantanamo such as Mr Deghayes and Mr
Aamer because they do not hold British passports.
Asim Qureshi of Cage Prisoners said he hoped the report would help alert
British citizens to the dangerous policies that are being carried out in
their name. "Rendition and torture do not help build security but
instead only compromise the standing and security of the British
Government in the international community."
Rendered to Guantanamo?
* BINYAM MOHAMMED AL-HABASHI
Visited by MI6 agents while in prison in Karachi who told him he would
be moved to Morocco. Upon arrival, MI5 agents supplied interrogators
with information to ease the extraction of confessions. He remains in
Guantanamo Bay.
* JAMAL AL-HARITH
Fell into the hands of US forces while imprisoned by the Taliban in
Afghanistan. Despite promises to help establish his innocence, the
British Embassy in Kabul permitted his rendition to Guantanamo Bay.
* JAMIL EL BANNA,
BISHER AL-RAWI
Picked up by authorities in the Gambia on the advice of the British and
subsequently rendered to Guantanamo. Still imprisoned.
* MOAZZAM BEGG
Regularly questioned by British authorities in Pakistan and Afghanistan,
who allowed rendition.
* MARTIN MUBANGA
British intelligence supplied evidence leading to his arrest in Lusaka.
Questioned regularly by British agents. MI5 still allowed US forces to
render him to Guantanamo.
* OMAR DEGHAYES
Interrogated by a British officer by the name of "Andrew" in Pakistan,
who promised to return him home if he co-operated. Despite complying, he
was sent to Guantanamo, where he remains.
* RICHARD BELMAR
Held in Pakistan where requests from the British Consulate to visit him
fell on deaf ears. By the time access was granted, Belmar was on his way
to Guantanamo. M15 had been permitted full access from day one.
* THE TIPTON THREE: SHAFIQ RASUL, RHUHEL AHMED, ASIF IQBAL
Held by US forces in Afghanistan, where they were questioned by British
officials before being rendered.
* SHAKER AAMER
Interrogated by MI5 and MI6 in Kandahar. On hunger strike in Guantanamo.
* TAREK DERGOUL
Questioned in Afghanistan by British forces. Believing they intended to
help, he complied. He was rendered to Guantanamo.
Source: Fabricating Terrorism British Complicity in Renditions and
Torture by Cage Prisoners.
*
================================================================
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jobs That Americans Won't Do ?? Think Again
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5f87ba45eaeed9fb
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 3:37 pm
From: Dave Smith
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
> >Of course it requires skills. All jobs require skills.
>
> No, they don't. 'Showing up' is not a 'skill', and that is
> all some jobs require ( I don't count 'pushing a broom' as a 'skill'.
> Being ambulatory with a stick in your hands is not a 'skill' )
Sadly, some people don't even have those skills.
>
> >It requires some
> >training, just like many other jobs. You can feel free to make up whatever
> >definitions suits your particular purpose but the thing about skilled trades
> >is that you have to take courses at an accredited school, complete an
> >apprenticeship program and pass tests.
>
> No, you don't. And I tell you this as someone who holds 5
> Masters licenses in 'skilled trades' ( Master Electrician, HVAC, and
> refrigeration ).
You do have to go to school and complete an apprenticeship here.
>
>
> For the licenses I hold, you take tests ( 28 hours in total,
> in my case ), but no schools are required, and no formal
> 'apprenticeship' program is required ( although work experience is ).
>
> >In order to work in that field you have
> >to be qualified.
>
> Not at all. Every 'skilled trade' offers inumerable examples
> of that fact.
You are suggesting that skilled tradespeople don't have to be qualified?
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:24 pm
From: gringo
Dave Smith wrote:
> Slyvester wrote:
>
>>> Is being a truck driver unskilled labor?
>> Is it? I drove for 15 years. I do NOT thinl it is unskilled.
>
> A skilled trade is one for which there is a recognized course of
> instruction and qualification, usually accompanied by an apprenticeship.
> While some companies have recently started requiring some sort of private
> schooling, it falls fall short of the definition of a skilled trade.
>
>
>
Dave, I beg your pardon! Today one becomes a trucker by first attending
a trucking school which lasts from 4 weeks to as much as 12 weeks.
Quality of schools varies greatly, no doubt. But after graduation and
qualifying for a CDL, the trainee (now a rookie) goes into a fleet's
driver training program. Here again, there's lots of variance. Some
keep their rookies with a driver trainer for 3-6 months; some for only a
couple of weeks.
My point is that ain't no untrained nobody coming in off a sidewalk able
to even shift a big truck's gears-- and shifting is only one small part
of the skill-set of a truck driver. I've been driving now for about 20
years, and I am still learning. I'll compare the average driver's
skills to those of the average doctor or lawyer any day.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 9:02 pm
From: .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:37:38 -0500, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>>
>> >Of course it requires skills. All jobs require skills.
>>
>> No, they don't. 'Showing up' is not a 'skill', and that is
>> all some jobs require ( I don't count 'pushing a broom' as a 'skill'.
>> Being ambulatory with a stick in your hands is not a 'skill' )
>
>Sadly, some people don't even have those skills.
>
>>
>> >It requires some
>> >training, just like many other jobs. You can feel free to make up whatever
>> >definitions suits your particular purpose but the thing about skilled trades
>> >is that you have to take courses at an accredited school, complete an
>> >apprenticeship program and pass tests.
>>
>> No, you don't. And I tell you this as someone who holds 5
>> Masters licenses in 'skilled trades' ( Master Electrician, HVAC, and
>> refrigeration ).
>
>You do have to go to school and complete an apprenticeship here.
>
>>
>>
>> For the licenses I hold, you take tests ( 28 hours in total,
>> in my case ), but no schools are required, and no formal
>> 'apprenticeship' program is required ( although work experience is ).
>>
>> >In order to work in that field you have
>> >to be qualified.
>>
>> Not at all. Every 'skilled trade' offers inumerable examples
>> of that fact.
>
>You are suggesting that skilled tradespeople don't have to be qualified?
>
That is absolutely 100 % correct.
We call them 'hacks', and they abound in every trade. many
own and run their own companies ( no one would hire them ), and they
give' the skilled trades' a bad reputation on a daily basis.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:39 pm
From: gringo
Dave Smith wrote:
> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>>> A skilled trade is one for which there is a recognized course of
>>> instruction and qualification, usually accompanied by an apprenticeship.
>>> While some companies have recently started requiring some sort of private
>>> schooling, it falls fall short of the definition of a skilled trade.
>>>
>> Depends on your definitions. It requires skills. Also
>> certain character traits that not everyone has.
>
> Of course it requires skills. All jobs require skills. It requires some
> training, just like many other jobs. You can feel free to make up whatever
> definitions suits your particular purpose but the thing about skilled trades
> is that you have to take courses at an accredited school, complete an
> apprenticeship program and pass tests. In order to work in that field you have
> to be qualified.
>
> You don't have to do those things to drive a truck. All you need is the right
> class of licence. Some trucking companies may require their applicants to have
> graduated from some sort of a training school. Most do not. Some people thing
> it is necessary to go to a driving school to get their licence. It isn't.
>
> There is no recognized school for truck driving. There is no apprentice ship
> program.
Dave, perhaps you're talking about Canada? The fact is that here in the
US, MOST trucking companies do require that new hires be recent
graduates of an ACCREDITED driving school. Notice the word "recent?"
If an experienced driver takes one or two years off the road, chances
are that many of the companies he applies to will insist that he enrolls
in a school for a refresher course.
As for the "apprenticeship program": Of the 500 top fleets in the US, I
think it'd be a safe bet that 98% require that inexperienced drivers
(many do not hire a driver with less than 3 years experience!) be RECENT
graduates of an accredited driving school, and then that they join their
driver-trainee "apprenticeship" training program.
>
> I didn't get my licence through a school. I worked for the same government
> department that issues driver licences here and our equipment instructor took
> me for a test drive and signed for me to get a Class D licence when we went to
> the classified licence system. It was later upgraded to a Class A with a
> short written test and a road test. Had I not been working there, I could
> have just gone to the licence bureau at the time and got it grandfathered to a
> Class A.
>
>
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Conservatives for 9/11 Truth
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7442d75baa2e1b2b
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 3:17 pm
From: "K James"
http://www.physics911.net/thermite.htm
"Observer" <observer111@yahoo1.com> wrote in message news:442959aa$1@news.starhub.net.sg...
>
> "artie morty" <artiemorty@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:47ch22927to2v62itpr1ts5sepmt8mv6tf@4ax.com...
> > >And the clown just keeps going. Laughable.
> >
> > Why don't you try to prove him wrong, instead of just abusing him?
> >
> > Better still - why don't you post one point that will substantiate
> > (with evidence) that either of the twin towers collapsed in a natural
> > state.
>
>
> Ok....lets assume that the said "engineer" and
> "university professors" are in fact real.
> Lets start with SIMPLE calculations to start
> the ball rolling for them to show how good a
> "scientist" they are.
>
> Hmmm....if I recall High School maths...it
> goes like this...
> For linear movements...(the buildings did fall
> in a straight line, didn't they? Or are our resident
> engineer and professor claiming they fell in an arc?
> LOL).
>
> a = (v - vi) / t
>
> Since its falling down under gravitational force
> a = g
>
> Hence
> g = (vf - vi) / t
>
> Solving for t where t is the time it takes
> for a mass on at the very top of collapsing WTC
> to fall to the ground.
> t = (vf - vi) / g
>
> Since vi = 0
> t = vf / g
>
> Assuming constant acceleration during collapse
> v avg = vf / 2
>
> Hence
> v avg = d / t where d is the height of the WTC.
>
> Thus
> t = d / v avg
> = d / vf / 2
> = 2d / vf
> = 2d / gt
>
> t^2 = 2d / g
> t = sqrt ( 2d / g)
>
> Hehe....see how easy it is to calculate the THEORETICAL
> time it would take for the top of WTC to reach the ground
> if its a FREEFALL condition without any resistance....including
> air resistance.
> See....these are all easily available in any High School
> textbooks.
> You cannot run away from these simple straight
> forward calculations.
> You can simply substitute the actual dimensions
> of WTC into the formula and get the theoretical
> time it should take to fall in PERFECT vacuum...
> its not rocket science.
>
> Can these equations be WRONG?
> Are we teaching our students WRONG stuffs
> all these while?
>
> Now...any true blue engineer would know that in
> the real world, its not perfect. There are resistances
> (to a freefall) encountered....because the object did NOT fall
> in a vacuum. So any true blue engineer would factor
> in those real world resistances into the above "perfect"
> formula.
> So how would our "engineer" remodel this very
> simple High School kinematics formula?
>
> But we may be dealing with FAKE engineers who
> even claim that tonnes of titanium can be vaporised
> into thin air without being able to show the heat
> calculations.
>
> Hey artie...can you start the ball rolling for the
> heat calculations (make it simple High School
> maths so that there no excuse that our resident
> engineer does NOT know it) to let our resident
> "engineer" and a certain university professor
> complete it....(if they can...that is)
> LOL.
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apostate's Choice: Get Killed or Hide
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2c65c013a459027e
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 3:10 pm
From: "harmony"
the west is hypocrite. it would have not reacted at all if the guy had
chosen to convert to boodism or hinduism. eg, usa rails against china for a
miniscule kirastanis there but says nothing about the boodists in tibet.
<mortayee@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1143566518.458107.151780@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Lol.
>
> Islamic expert are unable to decide as to whether apostates should be
> killed regardless, or allowed to live and avoid decapitation provided
> apostasy is kept secret. Just look at the shear callousness of the
> punishment, which we have all come to expect from this Cult of Death.
> Yet one can't fail to escape the dark humour that is revealed by the
> surreal nature of scholarly fashion of th discussion of this barbaric
> practise. One had felt and indeed hoped that such practises had
> vanished with the bygone era.
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4850080.stm
>
>
> What Islam says on religious freedom
> By Magdi Abdelhadi
> BBC Arab affairs analyst
>
> There is no clear-cut text in the Koran calling apostates to be killed
> Several hundred people have protested in northern Afghanistan over a
> decision to dismiss a case against Abdul Rahman, who converted to
> Christianity.
>
> He had been charged with rejecting Islam and potentially faced the
> death penalty. But what do Islamic teachings say about the issue?
>
> Freedom of belief is enshrined in the
>
> Koran - the foremost textual authority in laying down the principles of
> Islamic law. But there is disagreement among Muslim scholars as to the
> limits of that freedom.
>
> "There is no compulsion in religion" (al-Baqarah, 256); is one of the
> most quoted phrases from the Koran to back up freedom of belief.
>
> There is no clear-cut text in the Koran, however, that calls for the
> killing of apostates. But those who call for the execution of Muslims
> who abandon their faith base their judgement primarily on the sayings
> of the Prophet Muhammad, also known as the hadith.
>
> If someone changes from Islam to kufr (unbelief), that has to remain
> a personal matter, and he should not make it public
>
> Abdelsabour Shahin,
> Islamist writer, Cairo University
>
>
> These constitute a secondary textual authority - albeit weaker than the
> Koran itself - used in formulating Islamic law, or Sharia.
>
> Abdelsabour Shahin, an Islamist writer and academic at Cairo
> University, told the BBC that although Islam in principle enshrined
> freedom of belief, there were severe restrictions on that freedom.
>
>
> "If someone changes from Islam to kufr (unbelief), that has to remain a
> personal matter, and he should not make it public," he said.
>
> In other words, an apostate in a Muslim society, according to this
> view, forfeits his freedom of expression. If he goes public he should
> be executed, says Dr Shahin.
>
> But if the Koran has not stipulated the killing of apostates, how does
> Dr Shahin come to this judgement?
>
>
> Abdul Rahman converted to Christianity 16 years ago
>
> He says there is an authoritative and unambiguous hadith (saying of the
> prophet) which calls for the killing of the apostate - "He who changes
> his religion should be killed", says Dr Shahin, quoting from the
> sayings of the prophet.
>
> Others disagree. Professor Abdelmouti Bayoumi of the Islamic Research
> Academy in Cairo told the BBC that the generality of the aforementioned
> hadith has been restricted by another hadith from the prophet.
>
> Dr Bayoumi says that according to that hadith changing one's religion
> alone is not enough for applying capital punishment.
>
> He says the apostate has also to be found working against the interests
> of the Muslim society or nation - only then should he be executed.
>
> Interests of the state
>
> Dr Bayoumi's stance is a good example of modernisers, who try to
> reconcile between Islamic tradition and modern practice.
>
> An apostate in this perspective is a traitor. He is punished, not for
> what he believes in, but for what he does and which could be harmful to
> the interests of the state.
>
> But Dr Shahin says the mere fact that someone goes public with his
> apostasy "amounts to fitna (sedition, or civil strife), he is thus like
> someone fighting Islam, and should therefore be killed."
>
> Each and every individual has the right to change his religion
> without any conditions whatsoever
>
> Gamal al-Banna,
> Islamic thinker
>
> Writers like Dr Shahin derive their position from the interpretations
> of classical scholars, all of whom have endorsed the principle of
> capital punishment for apostates.
>
> The question is: have they adopted this stance in the face of abundant
> evidence from the Koran itself in favour of freedom of belief?
>
> Gamal al-Banna - an Islamic thinker and brother of the founder of the
> Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood - says the reason for that is political and
> has nothing to do with the Koran itself.
>
> Mr al-Banna says the classical interpretations are more than 1,000
> years old, and were formulated at a time of state building where
> conformity and social cohesion were deemed more important than personal
> freedom.
>
> He adds that "each and every individual has the right to change his
> religion without any conditions whatsoever.
>
> "That person has also the right to campaign for his views, provided he
> does so peacefully," he told the BBC.
>
> Today, views like that of Mr al-Banna are in the minority.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lol.
>
> Islamic expert are unable to decide as to whether apostates should be
> killed regardless, or allowed to live and avoid decapitation provided
> apostasy is kept secret.
>
> Just feel the shear callousness of the punishment, which we have all
> come to expect from this Cult of Death. Yet one can't fail to escape
> the dark humour that is revealed by the surreal nature of scholarly
> fashion of discussion by the expert about the barbaric practise, which
> one felt and indeed hoped had vanished with the bygone era.
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4850080.stm
>
>
> What Islam says on religious freedom
> By Magdi Abdelhadi
> BBC Arab affairs analyst
>
> There is no clear-cut text in the Koran calling apostates to be killed
> Several hundred people have protested in northern Afghanistan over a
> decision to dismiss a case against Abdul Rahman, who converted to
> Christianity.
>
> He had been charged with rejecting Islam and potentially faced the
> death penalty. But what do Islamic teachings say about the issue?
>
> Freedom of belief is enshrined in the
>
> Koran - the foremost textual authority in laying down the principles of
> Islamic law. But there is disagreement among Muslim scholars as to the
> limits of that freedom.
>
> "There is no compulsion in religion" (al-Baqarah, 256); is one of the
> most quoted phrases from the Koran to back up freedom of belief.
>
> There is no clear-cut text in the Koran, however, that calls for the
> killing of apostates. But those who call for the execution of Muslims
> who abandon their faith base their judgement primarily on the sayings
> of the Prophet Muhammad, also known as the hadith.
>
> If someone changes from Islam to kufr (unbelief), that has to remain
> a personal matter, and he should not make it public
>
> Abdelsabour Shahin,
> Islamist writer, Cairo University
>
>
> These constitute a secondary textual authority - albeit weaker than the
> Koran itself - used in formulating Islamic law, or Sharia.
>
> Abdelsabour Shahin, an Islamist writer and academic at Cairo
> University, told the BBC that although Islam in principle enshrined
> freedom of belief, there were severe restrictions on that freedom.
>
>
> "If someone changes from Islam to kufr (unbelief), that has to remain a
> personal matter, and he should not make it public," he said.
>
> In other words, an apostate in a Muslim society, according to this
> view, forfeits his freedom of expression. If he goes public he should
> be executed, says Dr Shahin.
>
> But if the Koran has not stipulated the killing of apostates, how does
> Dr Shahin come to this judgement?
>
>
> Abdul Rahman converted to Christianity 16 years ago
>
> He says there is an authoritative and unambiguous hadith (saying of the
> prophet) which calls for the killing of the apostate - "He who changes
> his religion should be killed", says Dr Shahin, quoting from the
> sayings of the prophet.
>
> Others disagree. Professor Abdelmouti Bayoumi of the Islamic Research
> Academy in Cairo told the BBC that the generality of the aforementioned
> hadith has been restricted by another hadith from the prophet.
>
> Dr Bayoumi says that according to that hadith changing one's religion
> alone is not enough for applying capital punishment.
>
> He says the apostate has also to be found working against the interests
> of the Muslim society or nation - only then should he be executed.
>
> Interests of the state
>
> Dr Bayoumi's stance is a good example of modernisers, who try to
> reconcile between Islamic tradition and modern practice.
>
> An apostate in this perspective is a traitor. He is punished, not for
> what he believes in, but for what he does and which could be harmful to
> the interests of the state.
>
> But Dr Shahin says the mere fact that someone goes public with his
> apostasy "amounts to fitna (sedition, or civil strife), he is thus like
> someone fighting Islam, and should therefore be killed."
>
> Each and every individual has the right to change his religion
> without any conditions whatsoever
>
> Gamal al-Banna,
> Islamic thinker
>
> Writers like Dr Shahin derive their position from the interpretations
> of classical scholars, all of whom have endorsed the principle of
> capital punishment for apostates.
>
> The question is: have they adopted this stance in the face of abundant
> evidence from the Koran itself in favour of freedom of belief?
>
> Gamal al-Banna - an Islamic thinker and brother of the founder of the
> Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood - says the reason for that is political and
> has nothing to do with the Koran itself.
>
> Mr al-Banna says the classical interpretations are more than 1,000
> years old, and were formulated at a time of state building where
> conformity and social cohesion were deemed more important than personal
> freedom.
>
> He adds that "each and every individual has the right to change his
> religion without any conditions whatsoever.
>
> "That person has also the right to campaign for his views, provided he
> does so peacefully," he told the BBC.
>
> Today, views like that of Mr al-Banna are in the minority.
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: GOVERNMENTS MUST RESPECT MINORITY RIGHTS TO BE RIGHTEOUS - Afghanistan
and China take heed!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d0843135830a26cf
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 4:08 pm
From: "Geno2345"
I see the flea is preaching to the Dog again.
<politicsmaster@rock.com> wrote in message
news:1143509914.899134.202660@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> It is wrong for a king or a dictator, or a group of men to lord over
> the rest of the population and force their will on them. Certainly it
> will eventually lead to war, and if skill and weapons are equal, a
> majority will prevail. Thus tyranny of the individual, tyranny of the
> minority, is clearly akin to crime. However, for a government to be
> righteous, tyranny of a majority is wrong as well, might does not make
> right, might just makes things happen. For a government to endeavor to
> be righteous, it must respect minority rights as well, and not rely on
> the greater destructive power of the majority. Assuming the support of
> all people, the majority should perhaps in fact rule on bigger issues
> such as how much to tax, and where to spend the tax money. But the
> minority nonetheless retain their unalienable and equal rights, which
> the government must respect in order to be righteous.
>
> It is not enough to pay lip service to these rights, they must be
> respected and protected.
>
> These unalienable rights are all based on the unalienable right to
> FREEDOM inherent in all living beings. Among them are freedom of
> speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of peaceable
> assembly, and freedom to petition the government to redress grievances.
> Individuals are ultimately right to exercise and enjoy their freedom to
> do anything they choose so long as it does not violate someone else's
> freedom. This is an opinion, and opinions are upheld by force. Force
> does not change the minds of intelligent beings, it just makes things
> happen. Reason and philosophy change the minds of intelligent beings
> and thought precedes action. All beings have a degree of freedom, and
> there is a line and sometimes the certain freedom one person is
> exercising is more important than the certain freedom another person is
> exercising.
>
> It is likewise not enough to say a government is with the people if
> those people do not have representation and the right to vote and
> redress grievances.
>
> The Chinese never had a democratic revolution in China
>
> Following the ideologies of Marx and others, the early communists were
> in fact responding to the same sort of minority tyrannies which had
> motivated the revolutionary democratic freedom fighters of the west in
> earlier ages. Namely, the Aristocracy and the tyrannical restrictions
> and excesses and the inequality in the distribution of wealth between
> the Aristocracy and lower class peasants.
>
> In addition, it was the poverty or near famine in many communist
> nations which drove them to communism.
>
> Many democracies of the west have embraced socialism, and yet remain
> democratic. Complete Socialism amounts to a tax rate of 100% (although
> it is unlikely that that would work or be embraced).
>
> The democratic revolution in China still has to occur. Hopefully this
> can be done peacefully and thus wisely and without bloodshed.
>
> Communist nations must embrace democracy to purge themselves of the
> same evils which plague Aristocracies.
>
> Democracy is the solution to the problem of the tyranny and corruption
> of the minority dictator. Yet nonetheless, for a government to be
> righteous, minority rights must be respected and protected. Otherwise
> a government is a murderer, and a majority which needlessly oppresses a
> minority is as wrong as a minority which needlessly oppresses a
> majority.
>
> Right and wrong are just opinions. Force rules the world, but opinion
> rules the force. Reason and philosophy change opinions about what is
> right and wrong. Thus, thought precedes action.
>
> Righteousness ultimately prevails because all beings are naturally
> right and all beings naturally have might.
>
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:33 pm
From: bmoore@nyx.net
rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
> >The Chinese never had a democratic revolution in China
>
> It's coming up. Their leaders are: lecher dog, Jim Walsh, and bmo
> within this newsgroup. Since the CCP themselves will not reform their
> government, lecher dog will lead a group to overthrow them and will
> lynch them when they are caught. They will then open the government to
> its people and respect the rights of all citizens. There will be
> elections throughout the country, and a government of the people, by
> the people, and for the people will be established.
You are mistaken. I do not support the overthrow of the CCP. China does
not need another civil war. I do, however, hope that China will
gradually move towards a freer political system.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: About Canadian pedophile J F M e z e i
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/98b8b82dacbd0be4
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:12 pm
From: "Sue"
Can't we stop this kind of posting in this newsgroup? I am all for
freedom of speech but this way off topic.
sue
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Edmonton Losing Thousands of Jobs!! More to Go!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d42abb47da342a36
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 9:17 pm
From: Ariadne
Today's Edmonton Journal [24 March 2006]in a feature article states that
Edmonton has lost many thousands of jobs, according to Statistics Canada.
This despite the ongoing lies from the overpaid staff at Edmonton
Economic Development, the recipients of more than $6 MILLION from the
poor taxpayers.
To add insult to injury, the fat overpaid hacks at EDE claim they do
not know why there is such a loss of jobs, when the economy of Alberta
is booming!!
How about a few suggestions for the jobs losses:
1. Independent business owners resent having their taxes go to
subsidize another business - such as the $650,000 given last year to
the West Edmonton Mall car race! Apparently the clowns on council
will be donating a similar sum to WEM again this summer!
2. The wastage of HALF A MILLION DOLLARS by the Police Commission
in so-called severance pay to the former Chief whom THEY HAD FIRED FOR
JUST CAUSE! To add insult to injury, there was no provision in their
budget for this kickback!
2. One major scandal after another, involving scams and the
police. The photo radar contract, where 2 junior cops are now charged
with receiving $437,000 in bribes from the US photo radar company. So
far, the chief of police involved is not yet charged.
Then, the papers for the past week are full of stories involving fraud
in connection with so-called police charities scamming the public.
3. Irregularitioes involving the city tax assessment department,
where friends of city managers get extremely favourable valuations. A
taxpayer last year took the city to tax court, and proved that a
lawyer, had for 8 years, had his property deliberately UNDERASSESSED
EACH YEAR BY ALMOST HALF A MILLION DOLLARS - $149,500 when
the lawyer had declared the value to be $600,000!!
No honest businessman likes to be subsidising crooks and friends of
crooked city staffers!
4. Waste of more than $6 MILLION each year to EDE, when the Chamber
of Commerce which gets NO city or taxpayer cash, is in fact working to
bring businesses and jobs to town. It seems that the only jobs created
by or through EDE, are the jobs filled by the fat cats drawing the
high salaries with all kinds of expenses, but with no measurements of
their performance!!
5. Waste of over $4.8 MILLION a year, to the overpaid goons of the
Redmonton Oilers team, where the minimum wage is over $600,000, yet
the taxpayers have to continue giving the team more millions each
year!! If they can not survive with subsidy, then like any other
business, let them go under, or leave town.
6. Interference by city council in the normal business affairs
and operations of businesses. The anti-smoking laws have forced many
businesses, and even Legion branches to go under. Those surviving have
seen massive drops in their customers, resulting in fewer staff being
needed.
7. City interference in airport convenience. When the city forced
the virtual closure of the in town city center airport, jobs were
lost, and many business people from northern communities have been
boycotting Edmonton accordingly. They find that it is no more
expensive, and far more convenient to fly to Calgary to do their
business and purchsing, rather than have to pay the exorbitant cab
fares to and from the Leduc airport, plus all the travel time wasted.
8. Edmonton silly councillors are trying to hike their pay again,
after jacking up taxes to homeowners by more than 30% in the last few
years! They even get a third of their salaries TAX-FREE, which they do
not deserve for the rotten jobs they do. They should all be paid
around $30,000, with bonuses based on PERFORMANCE, such as tax
savings, cost reductions,recoveries from criminals, recoveries from
developers and WEM,and similar.
These are but SOME of the reasons that a business owner would consider
Edmonton NOT suitable for investment, compared to other communities in
northern Alberta.
Hell, even a city councillor, Mike Nickel was forced to relocate his
tile businesses OUT OF EDMONTON, to Leduc because of problems with
city managers!!
I am sure that Sharx and Grosvenor, both capable accountants, can give
lots of stories as to why their clients have chosen to leave town,
with all the jobs.
If you believe in the TRUTH and the RIGHT,
then visit www.freedomsite.org
Lawyers, politicians, and judges need to be recycled - as fertiliser!!
"At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
is a revolutionary act."
(George Orwell)
David Icke - '...and the truth shall set you free'
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
(Arthur Schopenhauer)
"The reason men are silenced is not because they speak falsely,
but because they speak the truth. This is because if men speak
falsehoods, their own words can be used against them; while if
they speak truly, there is nothing which can be used
against them -- except force." -- John Bryant
"To attempt to silence a man is to pay him homage, for it is an
acknowledgement that his arguments are both impossible to answer
and impossible to ignore."
--John Bryant
==============================================================================
TOPIC: American Professor: Armenian genocide is British propaganda
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9bd888e583866d37
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:19 pm
From: "rick murphy"
http://www.turkses.com/index.asp
American Professor: Armenian genocide is British propaganda
March 20, 2006
Renown U.S. historian and expert on Ottoman affairs, Professor Justin
McCarthy said allegations of Armenian genocide are British propaganda
Professor Justin McCarthy, speaking at a conference in London, said
that a source known as the "Blue Book" chosen by Armenians to prove
their claims of genocide is one of the products of British war
propaganda bureau's efforts of misinformation during first world war.
The Blue Book written by Viscount Bryce and Arnold Toynbee has been
used as proof that Armenians and the victims of the Jewish Holocaust
suffered the same fate in history. This book has been said to be a
product of British intelligence designed to promote and promulgate lies
during World War I. Britain had set up the war propaganda bureau at
Wellington House for the sole purpose of promoting lies and
misinformation on Germany and the Ottoman Empire. The British were in
full co-operation with American missionaries in Anatolia and the
American Embassy in Istanbul conjured a so called Armenian genocide
based on gossip, hear-say and erroneous information.
The real purpose behind this exercise was to create and strengthen an
image in the minds of British military officers that the Turk were
evil, horrible and untrustworthy McCarthy adds.
PROFESSOR JUSTIN MCCARTHY...
HISTORIAN AND EXPERT ON OTTOMAN AFFAIRS
All documents at the Wellington House where the British carried out
their propaganda were destroyed when the war ended. One document that
survived, however, was the Blue Book (it is documented that many more
of these books were published and copied for other countries). This
book is currently being used around the world as a legal document on
the genocide.
AMERICAN HISTORIAN PROVES THE FACTS
The American historian and expert on Ottoman affairs was a recent
speaker at the London School of Oriental and African Studies. He
commented on a few of the stomach churning activities of the British
during the first world war. He stated, When the war began, a secret
propaganda unit was set up at Wellington House, London (on September 2,
1914). This units sole aim was to provide support for Britain, smear
Britains enemies, obtain support for the British view through the use
of Americans, and to keep British morale high during the war. This unit
was headed by Charles Masterman a Liberal m.p. He was a close friend of
Lloyd George. There also was an American intellectual named Viscount
Bryce working in this bureau who had many influential friends in the
U.S. Arnold Toynbee, young historian, meanwhile was one of Bryces close
friends at the time.
SEVEN MILLION DOCUMENTS
At the end of the war all documents and records of work at the war
propaganda bureau were destroyed, and its existence was only admitted
in 1935. However, the sources of the propaganda bureau were discovered
due to one records book surviving until present day. Publications
prepared in this bureau and the existence of seven million documents
which were very efficiently sent to the United States after the war
were also exposed. Many famous authors of the time as Arnold Bennett
and John Buchan were also employed by the Wellington House, where they
published brochures, books and statements for the war effort.
GERMANY, THE ACTUAL TARGET
Although Germany was the actual target of activities at Wellington
House, the Ottoman Empire, having sided with Germany during the war
received its fair share of false propaganda. No matter how sympathetic
the British officers felt towards their Turkish compatriots, the image
that Turkish officers were bad, evil and untrustworthy was strengthened
by such slanderous data.
NON-REAL NAMES
Work carried out by those at Wellington House on Ottomans involved many
so called authors and writers whose existence could not be verified and
thus, the information remains unconfirmed. For example, there was
apparently a Syrian member of the Ottoman Committee of Union and
Progress Party, named Faiz whose memoirs are mentioned in publications
of the Wellington House. This persons existence is totally make-belief
and his statements on Talat Pasha, a complete fallacy since he never
existed. Wellington House also proves the close co-operation which
existed between them and the American diplomats and missionaries based
in Turkey during that time. Since it is documented that these groups
were close to the Armenians in Turkey, their so called information from
Turkey is a total fabrication.
BLUE BOOK ORDERED BY LLOYD GEORGE
Public law and order was severely disrupted as a result of Armenians
revolting against Ottoman authority in eastern Anatolia, which led
Bryce and Toynbee to concoct material to document alleged atrocities
committed by Ottomans. Lloyd George asked to collect these documents in
the Blue Book. This document was later submitted to the British
parliament and has since been used as a classic documentation by
radical nationalist Armenian groups.
TOYNBEE WAS AN ANTI-TURK
It is thought that Toynbee believed in the authenticity and
truthfulness of material received from American missionaries in
Anatolia. However, he also added some spice to these imaginary stories,
since it was his country that was at war with Turkey and he thought it
would be right to lie in his reports. As was proved in his late career,
Toynbee was indeed an avid Turk hater, but was too far away from the
events of eastern Turkey in 1916 to document anything.
It is easy to see far away from such events Armenians living in Turkey
were and in looking at Toynbees data. Toynbee also seems to have
exaggerated their reliability for they turned and fought against
their former protector for promises made by outsiders. For example so
many anecdotes mentioned by western observers are not by western
travelers but by a local Armenians travelling only short distances. One
tenth of the anecdotes do not even have a source of any kind. Other
sources are generally hearsay and have no witnesses who can attest to
the so called crimes.
NO REACTIONS FROM TURKEY
All propaganda against Germany by Wellington House has been forgotten,
yet unfortunately Bryce - Toynbee documents have been recognized as
true in Britain and U.S. These documents have always been used by
radical militant Armenians to pursue their goals. There is no
information at hand about whether Turkey has shown any reactions
against the impact of these documents. The mentioned Blue Book has been
published more then once. Ara Sarafian who is to publish the book for
the third time does not mention the fact that the books contents were
prepared at Wellington House and that its sources are untrustworthy.
Thus, propaganda carried out by the British during World War I
continues to spread its venom against all Turkish people living around
the world.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What makes a religion valid?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/692fbde3edebb694
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 3:25 pm
From: "harmony"
<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143429380.468381.273760@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> luigi wrote:
> > "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>
> > > "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1234@bigpond.com> wrote ...
> > >> Andre wrote:
> > >> > I don't think religion is the source of morality.
> > >> I do. Certainly my religion is.
> > >> >Religion is an invention.
>
> That doesn't prevent a religion from being a repository of morality.
>
monotheist religions are repository of mono, relative morality. but to call
them repository would be inaccurate as the real morality they have existed
before them.
> > >> >If anything, religion is the source of immorality.
> > >> Your religion may be that. Or I should hope, your understanding of
> > >> your religion may be that.
> >
> > In the absence of God, how does one define the word morality?
>
> In the presence of God, how does one define the word morality?
>
good one. interstingly, people thought of morality as a duty, nothing to
specially brag about to score points, before montheists came along.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 3:28 pm
From: "harmony"
<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143429380.468381.273760@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> luigi wrote:
> > "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>
> > > "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1234@bigpond.com> wrote ...
> > >> Andre wrote:
> > >> > I don't think religion is the source of morality.
> > >> I do. Certainly my religion is.
> > >> >Religion is an invention.
>
> That doesn't prevent a religion from being a repository of morality.
>
> > >> >If anything, religion is the source of immorality.
> > >> Your religion may be that. Or I should hope, your understanding of
> > >> your religion may be that.
> >
> > In the absence of God, how does one define the word morality?
>
> In the presence of God, how does one define the word morality?
>
did you hear about that bush's adviser, that allen guy, who preached
morality all the time and was fleecing the target dept store?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ABUSING FREEDOM, FALSIFYING GODS
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8b0530da4d485200
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 9:22 pm
From: usenet@mantra.comD0s and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Abusing freedom, falsifying gods
By Kanchan Gupta
The Pioneer
Friday, March 24, 2006
On Monday, March 20, Assist News Service, based in Lake
Forest, California, USA, which circulates news about the
work of evangelists around the world, put out a story by
Michael Ireland, its chief correspondent, headlined
'India's Prime Minister launches investigation into
arrest and persecution of Indian Christians'.
According to this story, "India's Prime Minister, Dr
Manmohan Singh, has launched an investigation into the
arrest of Hopegivers International President Dr Samuel
Thomas.
'Our letter writing campaign is working,' says Hopegivers
Executive Director Michael Glenn, 'we must continue to
write and fax letters of protest this week.'
Glenn said that because of the campaign, 'The Prime
Minister of India has today appointed a four-member
commission to investigate the persecution in Kota where
our president and top administrative staff have been
falsely accused and jailed. This is simply a naked effort
to force Emmanuel to shut its doors'."
The story then goes on to urge Christians in the US to
petition Senators, Congressmen and the US President
against what it portrays as outrageous action by the
Government of Rajasthan, prodded by 'Hindu fascists',
against Dr Thomas and his fellow evangelists of Emmanuel
Mission International that operates five registered
societies in that State. These are: Emmanuel Bible
Institute Samiti, Emmanuel Anath Ashram, Emmanuel School
Society, Emmanuel Chikitsalaya Samiti and Emmanuel
Believers Fellowship, all funded by the US-based
Hopegivers.
What it does not mention, however, is the reason why Dr
Thomas and his associates have been booked for violating
Sections 153(a) and 295(a) of the IPC, "which deal with
deliberately outraging religious feelings or insulting
the religious beliefs of another community." Dr Samuel
Thomas has been arrested and his father, Mr MA Thomas,
has been declared an absconder.
And, while choosing not to elaborate on the nature of
charges, the report quotes Ms Shelley Thomas, wife of Dr
Thomas, who is at present in the US: "Nothing that my
husband has done was intended to outrage or insult any
other religion... This is a totally false charge and
unrelated to the organised violence, threats, and attacks
that have been conducted against us for the last six
weeks."
It also points out that the Government of Rajasthan has
"revoked without due process or hearing, all the
operating licenses of the Hopegivers-supported
bookstores, churches, the hospital and leprosy or HIV-
AIDS outreaches, orphanages, printing presses, schools
and other institutions."
Dr Thomas has been quoted saying, "Of course, none of
these actions are legal. The terrorists and hate groups
have taken the law into their own hands and sadly, we
have lost confidence in the local Government to control
them."
Since evangelist advocacy groups have willfully refused
to tell the full story, it would be in order to place the
facts on record.
The immediate provocation that led to the arrest of Dr
Thomas and others involved with the Emmanuel mission's
work in Kota is born of the contents of a book that he
and his associates have been distributing among the
people. The book, Haqeeqat, is authored by a Kerala-based
evangelist, MG Matthew, and purports to be a rebuttal of
MS Golwalkar's writings that have been published by the
RSS as Bunch of Thoughts.
In reality, it is unadulterated abuse of Hindu
scriptures, faith, ritual and tradition. It denigrates
every tenet of Hinduism and pours undiluted scorn on
Hindu icons and gurus. It casts aspersions on the
chastity of Hindu women and questions received wisdom.
Published by the Kerala-based Truth & Life Publications,
which puts out evangelist literature, it has been
translated into Hindi by Dennis Nathaniel, associated
with the Emmanuel mission, who has been arrested by
Rajasthan Police. The book has been banned in Rajasthan.
The author, against whom a non-bailable warrant has been
issued, is believed to be hiding somewhere in Kerala.
Here are some samples of what Haqeeqat, which was being
used by the Thomases and their associates to convince
Hindus in Kota to abandon their faith and embrace
Christianity, has to say:
* "Hindu gods and goddesses are fictitious and were
invented to persecute Dalits" (Page 9).
* "To prevent indigenous people from acquiring knowledge,
Saraswati invented difficult Vedas (which nobody can
understand)". (Page 16)
* "With the progression of time, people all over the
world (except India) were freed of their ignorance and
they began to disown wicked and cruel gods and goddesses.
But in India, because people are (enveloped) in the
darkness of ignorance, imaginary gods and goddesses are
still worshipped." (Page 17)
* "Naked sanyasis are worshipped by (Hindu) women. The
moment (Hindu) women see naked sanyasis, they fall on the
ground and prostrate themselves before the sanyasis.
(Hindu) women pour water on the sanyasis' penises and
then happily drink that water. Ling Devata is gratified
when he sees all these repulsive things and feels
empowered... These people are ignorant and do not know
the difference between what is right and wrong." (Page
93)
* "Sita was abandoned in the forest as per Ram's
wishes... Ram later asked Lakshman to kill Sita. In the
end, Ram frustrated with life, drowned himself in Saryu.
Such are the teachings of half-naked rishis who are
praised by Hindutvawadis." (Page 100)
* "Lord Shiva, to get people to worship him, dropped his
penis on Earth (Devi), shaking the ground and the sky!
.. . Poor Dharti Devi was shaken by the weight of his
penis. Seeing this, all the Gods were scared. It seems
Gods would use their penises as bombs! Whenever and
wherever they wanted to, they would drop their 'penis
bombs' to terrorise the people. Thus, they were able to
enslave the people... But compared to foreign bombs,
these penis bombs were a damp squib." (Page 106-107)
* "(Ramakrishna) Paramahansa should have known that Ganga
is the world's filthiest and dirtiest river. How many
dead bodies float down this river every day? How many
half-burnt dead bodies are dumped into it every day? And
Hindus call it the holy river! In fact, all the rivers of
India are dirty and polluted... Hindutvawadis pollute the
rivers... and then depend on their false Gods to cleanse
them..." (Page 122-123)
* "(For Hindus) men can be Gods, women can be
Goddesses... animals are gods, snakes are gods... they
(Hindu Gods) fight among themselves, marry among
themselves, throw out their wives, run away with others'
wives, they steal, get intoxicated, drink blood, are
reincarnated as animals, fish and tortoise, some of them
can lift mountains... Some Gods are in same-sex
relationships and are yet able to produce babies. These
Gods and Goddesses are always armed because they believe
in killing and plunder. Some Gods think their penises are
more powerful than nuclear bombs. Others like animals
live naked among their followers. Some of them spend
their time in yogic exercises, others are in samadhi and
happy to see the number of blind followers swell... You
can wash away your sins by worshipping the penises of
Gods" (Page 146)
* "How could Arya Hindus bring Aryanisation on this
earth. To be Arya, one has to be born of an Arya womb...
If Arya Hindus want to bring Aryanisation then they must
lend or rent out all Arya wombs to non-Aryans. Non-Aryans
should be given Brahmin women so that children are born
from Brahmin womb" (Page 182-183).
* "In modern India, many Ramas of this belief are living
a carefree life. They marry several times, desert their
wives, marry several times, and leave them. Many Ramas
kill their Sitas. They are following their God Rama."
(Page 269)
* "(Lord) Krishna had a despicable sex life... Shri
Krishna is famous because of his love life. He had 16,008
wives. And all Yadav women were his illegitimate lovers.
(Hindu) women are drawn towards him because of
pornographic and vulgar tales of his sex life." (Page
391)
This is not the first time that the Emmanuel mission has
run foul of the local administration and upset Hindus. On
February 24, 2005, there was a near riot situation
following the mission's crude attempt to convert Hindus
through allurement and false propaganda. On that
occasion, the mission head, Mr MA Thomas, had promised
not to continue with such provocative activities.
The agenda papers at the National Integration Council
meeting held under the tutelage of the UPA Government had
this to say about Emmanuel mission and similar evangelist
outfits:
"Communal tensions due to alleged
conversion/reconversions:
In recent years, the issue of conversion/re-conversion
has also become a major cause of communal tensions in
some parts of the country. Allegations of forced
conversions/ reconversions and subsequent communal
tensions have surfaced from time to time. On many
occasions even apprehensions, not founded on facts, on
this account have given rise to communal tensions. Cases
in point are the recent events on the occasion of the
annual religious Assembly of the Emmanuel Bible Institute
Samiti at Kota, Rajasthan, in February 2005. The
situation was controlled due to prompt measures taken by
the District States of Arunachal Pradesh, Orissa, Madhya
Pradesh and Gujarat have already passed legislations to
regulate conversions by coercive means or offering
allurements."
And yet, there is outrage over action against the
Thomases. Such perverse drivel, such horrendous hate, as
exemplified by the contents of Haqeeqat, the operating
manual of Emmanuel mission, of course, is of no
consequence to those who have taken up cudgels on behalf
of its peddlers masquerading as Good Samaritans and
Christian evangelists.
Instead, they are faxing letters to the White House, the
US State Department, the United Nations, and Indian
ambassadors to the US and the UN to paint the Government
of Rajasthan in communal colours.
And, if Hopegivers Executive Director Michael Glenn is to
be believed, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has appointed
a four-member commission to inquire into the
"persecution" of peddlers of anti-Hindu hate. If this is
true, then a public statement is called for from the
Prime Minister's Office. If it's untrue, then the least
the PMO can do is issue a denial.
http://dailypioneer.com/displayit1.asp?pathit=/columnist/kanchan/kanchan6.txt
More at:
http://www.dailypioneer.com
Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: We're FRICKED, peoplez !!!!!!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6b3ac486f8a62a5e
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 9:22 pm
From:
"imorf" <imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote in message news:1143520762.563265@nnrp1.phx1.gblx.net...
> immortality@so.really.really.really.old.net wrote:
>>>>Then as the ocean waters heat up, frozen methane is increasingly released
>>>>from the ocean floor, accelerating the process (already starting to happen)
>>>yes.
>>>>then perhaps in as little as 20-80 years there can be a quite sudden cooling
>>>>due to other side effects of global warming, resulting in another long ice-age.
>>>please elaborate on this part.
>>
>> The exact mechanisms are not yet understood though it is suspected that
>> it may be because of forests drying out & burning pretty much worldwide
>> releasing huge amounts of smoke & fine particulates, blocking out enough
>> of the sunlight for years to cause a rapid drop in temperatures, ocean current
>> upheavals, widespread snow, sea surface ice, land glaciation etc etc etc.
>
> I just think your time frame of 20-80 years is too short. You are
> extrapolating from past occurrences that lacked man's influence,
> humankind won't allow global forest fires to burn indefinitely (we are
> too greedy to allow such a waste of wood). It would only be massive
> volcanism causing dimming we would have no control over.
Mans influence just made the increase occur quicker.
During past events the co2 and other greenhouse gasses
were just as bad, due maybe to fires, or other nutural causes.
So it could still happen just as fast as in past events.
(or we could be lucky - who knows yet...)
Fires - we couldn't possibly stop it...
eg: The amazon has been drying and is having a terrible drought.
If it were to get too much worse then there would be little hope
of stopping raging fires in such a remote region nor in asia.
We in the 'western world' cannot even stop bad fires
in OZ or the US so to say that we would just stop it
in remote places in poor and undeveloped countries
is just not realistic.
As far as vulcanism goes, just one big volcano going off
heavily and not stopping for a while can have a huge effect
all by its self due to the very fine particles pushed high into
the atmosphere.
>> Ice & snow reflect light & heat, preventing warming such that ice ages
>> can last for vast periods of time. eg: much of the Earths history has
>> been in ice ages. Short warm periods like now are the exception, not the rule.
>
> Irrelevant, since most of Earth's history did not have industrial
> mankind in plague proportions.
Irrelevant, since co2 & other greenhouse gasses became just as bad
in previous events before man was here - man just fast-tracked it and
continues to make it worse as we speak & into the futures since only
greed is important to our 'leaders' - leading us into hell on earth perhaps....
>> Judging by previous cycles, the longer & hotter the warm period,
>> the colder, longer & more extreme the ice age will be.
>> Ours is one of the longest & warmest known periods.
>
> and it will go on indefinitely due to anthropogenic CO2 input, until we
> reduce CO2 production to below levels that allow for natural processes
> to remove it from the atmosphere faster than what we are adding. This
> will probably never happen (not in this century anway), and also take a
> long long time to complete.
Fine smoke & ash particles in the upper atmosphere have a bigger effect
than co2. It blocks the heat from getting to the earths surface,
so the co2 cannot trap heat that isn't getting here... 101.
The primary thing keeping the greenhouse effect from getting worse
at the moment is fine particles of pollution in the upper atmosphere.
This was only discovered quite recently and is undeniable.
The effect was quite startling.
- Regards.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:22 pm
From: "NYC XYZ"
justin david smith wrote:
>
>
> Jews have always loved blacks- they loved blacks to wash their dishes,
> clean their floors and toilets and change their childrens' diapers.
> Do you really think people who consider themselves god's chosen are
> egalitarians?
Indeed.
But there's that interesting tension in Jewish thought and culture that
precisely because they are Chosen they must set the proper example.
Unfortunately, all human beings find it easier to pay lip service to
lofty principles than actually live those principles. So when Jews get
enough of black and hispanic miscreancy, they too do what everyone else
does. Not every Jew, of course, and not "officially," as a community,
but it's merely White Flight by any other name.
I don't know what the solution is, frankly. It's no good concentrating
ghettos, but, as the old saying goes, you can take the man out of the
ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the man. What to do?
Ghettos will only perpetuate black and hispanic miscreancy. But
spreading them out bears the risk of simply corrupting the wider
society with their barbarism. Perhaps this "token minority" thing is
really the way to go; black and hispanics can be set something of a
proper example through their interactions as servants in more
mainstream society? And who better than Jews, as a people who have
also suffered but overcome greatly....
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Visoki Standardi Engleskih Kraljevskih Govnara
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7dce8cf1b679339a
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:36 pm
From: bmarjanovich@iprimus.ca
http://www.online.hr/_clanak.asp?id=294849&kategorija=3
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0713994258.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.richmondreview.co.uk/books/unfinesthour.html
http://www.cercles.com/review/r2/simms.html
==============================================================================
TOPIC: EINSTEIN THE PLAGIARIST
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/06977e5534cc4c18
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:38 pm
From: "Dr. Lipschitz"
We in the scientific community have always known that Einstein was a fraud.
His ability as a physicist is about at the level of a college student. The
reason he wasn't debunked was purely political just as in the case of MLK.
There was nothing to be gained at the time by exposing him so we allowed the
jews to have their little hero just as we allowed the Negro to have the
plagiarist MLK. If you compare their lives you will see that they both had a
lot in common. They were both opportunists, communists and sex perverts who
abused women. And they both won Nobel prizes under false pretences. Of
course, the Nobel prize is just that, a prize, and the committee that awards
these prizes determines who gets one by recommendations. In both the case of
Einstein and MLK it was jewish groups who lobbied the committee to award the
prize to these people for their own political purposes. If you know anything
about jewish lobbying groups you're familiar with their methods- extortion,
blackmail, political pressure, disinformation and even strong arm tactics a
la the JDL.
"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:LcJVf.4412$KC3.4024@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Was Einstein a Plagiarist?
>
> It has often been claimed that Einstein was a plagiarist. While not all of
> these accusations are reasonable, the two most important of them, that
> Einstein plagiarized part of special relativity from Poincaré and that he
> plagiarized the field equations of general relativity from Hilbert, are
> supported by good evidence and represent serious cases of plagiarism
> covering a considerable part of the results for which Einstein has become
> famous. This article is not the place to comment upon the other
> accusations of plagiarism against Einstein.
>
> The following results or methods of Einstein's two 1905 relativity papers
> have been known in 1904 or earlier:
>
> a.. The clock setting procedure used in section 1 of [Ein05c] to
> synchronize two clocks which are at rest relative to each other has been
> described by Poincaré in [Poin00] and also in his 1904 St. Louis lectures.
> b.. In section 2 of [Ein05c], Einstein arrives at the conclusion that
> simultaneity is relative. But this was known to Poincaré [Poin02]:
> There is no absolute time; to say two durations are equal is an assertion
> which by itself has no meaning and which can acquire one only by
> convention. *** Not only have we no direct intuition of the equality of
> two durations, but we have not even a direct intuition of the simultaneity
> of two events occurring in different places.
> a.. Poincaré proposed a formula which is equivalent to E=mc2 for
> electromagnetic radiation in [Poin00].
> b.. Poincaré gave an outline of relativistic kinematics in his 1904 St.
> Louis lectures.
> c.. Lorentz had published his relativistic transformations in 1904.
> Neither [Ein05c] nor [Ein05d] has a list of references. Einstein does not
> mention Poincaré in these papers, and he mentions Lorentz only in
> connection with the laws of electromagnetism, after formulating the
> relativistic transformations without attributing them to anyone else. It
> is known from Solovine's recollections that Einstein had read La science
> et l'hypothèse, and [Bri96] quotes Solovine as saying that the thoughts
> quoted above (about absolute time and simultaneity) "held us spell-bound
> for weeks". This excludes excuses like cryptomnesia and makes Einstein's
> use of these ideas without attributing them to Poincaré a clear-cut case
> of plagiarism. It is not unreasonable to assume that Einstein knew at
> least some of the other scientific works mentioned above, but no clear-cut
> proof can be given. We refer to the article on Einstein and plagiarism for
> more details.
>
> The author's opinion about the sequence of events leading to Einstein's
> publication of the field equations of gravity has already been given
> above. It has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that Hilbert sent the
> field equations of gravity, in one form or another, to Einstein before
> November 18, 1915. This is so because Einstein confirmed the arrival on
> November 18, and it is obvious from his answer that Hilbert's postcard
> contained the field equations in one form or another. Moreover, [Wue05, p.
> 74] points out that Einstein quickly obtained notes from Hilbert's
> November 16 lecture. In a 1997 paper, Corry, Renn, and Stachel have
> asserted that Hilbert had, in November 1915, not yet carried out some
> crucial calculations to arrive at an explicit version of the field
> equations. This claim is rather unreasonable, because:
>
> a.. The calculation in question is not hard to carry out, even in a
> variety of different ways. Hilbert probably needed the result for his
> November 16 talk and also for his postcard to Einstein, which was
> presumably sent on November 16. See the article on the Corry Renn Stachel
> paper for more details.
> b.. Einstein's November 26 letter to Heinrich Zangger, accusing Hilbert
> of attempts to appropriate ('nostrifzieren') Einstein's theory, would be
> difficult to motivate unless Einstein was aware that the field equations
> Hilbert had sent him are equivalent to the equations Einstein had
> published in his November 25 paper without mentioning Hilbert.
> Again, this makes Einstein's behaviour a clear cut case of plagiarism.
>
> Of course, this does not imply that everything attributed to Einstein has
> been plagiarized from someone else. Most importantly, the description of
> gravity by a pseudo-Riemannian metric is probably due to Einstein,
> although Grossmann's role is difficult to assess. But the above two cases
> make it clear that Einstein had a tendency to use ideas of other
> scientists without attributing them to their source, and that his word
> about such issues cannot be trusted.
>
> While there are scholarly works which are more or less pointing out the
> above facts, the authors of such works are generally reluctant to call
> Einstein a plagiarist. One reason for this may be the fear that outspoken
> criticism of the Einstein myth might be bad for one's career, as the
> example of Nobel prize winner Johannes Stark shows. Daniela Wuensch
> [Wue05, p. 76] concedes that Einstein arrived at the correct field
> equations only with Hilbert's help ("nach großer Anstrengung mit Hilfe
> Hilberts"), but nevertheless calls Einstein's reaction (his slandering of
> Hilbert in the November 26 letter to Zangger) "understandable" ("Einsteins
> Reaktion ist verständlich") because Einstein had worked on the problem for
> a long time. If this pity for Einstein is genuine, one wonders how much
> Wuensch knows about the Einstein-Poincaré relation.
>
> Another source which is available on the net claims that calling Einstein
> a plagiarist "is certainly not fair: Just like any other genius in
> history, Albert Einstein had to build on the work of his elders. Period."
> But other geniuses in history usually quoted the work of these elders, as
> one can see by looking at the introduction to the Maxwell paper containing
> the field equations of electromagnetism. There may be a number of cases in
> which these geniuses have been accused of plagiarism (eg, Leibniz and
> Newton), but in Einstein's case we have a clear cut proof. Fairness
> demands that the same principles should apply to everyone. A PhD student
> submitting a thesis duplicating the work of elders without quoting any
> source at all would probably be axed. Unless we want to stop this
> practice, it is only fair to point out that Einstein probably was a
> plagiarist.
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: GOP Split Over Religion's Growing Role in Their Party
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/4c2be3bce0cb83f8
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 1:19 pm
From: zzpat
When you're losing a war and creating more debt than any person in human
history you have to change the subject - that's why the GOP found
religion.
We've all heard how Bush is a deeply religious man. His deep religious
beliefs gave him permission to manufacture make-believe WMD so he could
to to war and cut taxes and create massive debt using make-believe
surpluses.
Bush's war is a success (by his standard). It's responsible for record
high gas prices - the real reason for war. His tax cut is also a success
because it helped get him reelected.
Now the next two or three generations will have to fix the problems Bush
created.
Pat
http://zzpat.bravehost.com/
NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> GOP Split Over Religion's Growing Role in Their Party
>
> Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
>
> Bloomberg News - Mar 28, 2006
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=&sid=a4l9Gd5tOPY8
>
> Republicans Split Over Religion's Growing Role in Their Party
>
> by Heidi Przybyla in Boston
>
> March 28 (Bloomberg) -- Republicans, who have profited politically from
> emphasizing faith and family values, are now finding those same issues
> dividing the party.
>
> Economic conservatives and secular Republicans complain their message is
> being drowned out by Christian conservatives preoccupied with banning
> abortion and gay marriage and limiting stem-cell research.
>
> On the other side, "values" advocates say they have provided the party with
> crucial support, particularly in 2004, when they mobilized religious
> conservatives to go to the polls to help re-elect President George W. Bush.
>
> Such concerns are turning long-simmering Republican tensions over the role
> of religious conservatives into an election-year split in a party already
> strained by differences on the Iraq war, immigration and government
> spending.
>
> "There is a great deal of concern about this seeming attempt to couch
> everything in religious terms," said Christine Todd Whitman, the former
> governor of New Jersey. "We're not a narrow-minded nation, and at least some
> of the people trying to define the Republican Party are coming off that
> way."
>
> If anything, religious conservatives deserve a greater Republican commitment
> to their agenda, said Tony Perkins, president of the Washington-based Family
> Research Council.
>
> "We had reason for people all across the country to be engaged at
> unprecedented levels," said Perkins, whose group is organizing a "values
> voter" summit in September. "It made a difference in states that were very
> closely divided."
>
> Book Tour
>
> Whitman, who was Bush's Environmental Protection Agency administrator from
> 2001 to 2003, has been traveling the country promoting her book, "It's My
> Party Too," and has started a political action committee to give Republicans
> like herself a greater voice and elevate issues such as government spending
> and health care.
>
> Representative Tom Davis of Virginia, a former chairman of the National
> Republican Congressional Committee, said too much focus on abortion and gay
> marriage may weaken Republican support in the Northeast and other regions
> where economic matters and other issues count more.
>
> "When you rely on those kind of social issues it helps you some places, but
> there's a cost to that," Davis said.
>
> Some of this year's most hotly contested congressional races will be held in
> states such as Pennsylvania and Connecticut, where some Republicans say a
> conservative religious agenda may not play well with voters.
>
> Losing Ground
>
> "If you take a look at where the president's numbers are weakest and where
> the party has lost the most ground, it's in some of those areas where these
> issues have been played up," Davis said. Republicans took control of both
> chambers of Congress in 1994 because the party united behind the economic
> ideas in its "Contract With America," he said.
>
> Davis's concerns echo those of former Missouri Senator John Danforth, an
> Episcopal priest who wrote in the New York Times last March that his party
> had allowed a "shared agenda to become secondary to the agenda of Christian
> conservatives."
>
> Those frustrations may reflect a shift in the party's balance of power away
> from economic conservatives and advocates of limited government, said John
> Green, a political scientist at the University of Akron in Ohio who studies
> the impact of religion on politics.
>
> Shifting Numbers
>
> "It may be that the Jack Danforths were more tolerant of the religious point
> of view when the libertarian view was dominant," Green said.
>
> Ten years ago, small-government Republicans outnumbered religious-values
> voters by as much as 20 to 25 percentage points, said Tony Fabrizio, a
> Republican pollster. Now their numbers are almost equal, he said.
>
> "The real schism of the party is not abortion or gay rights," Fabrizio said.
> "It's religiosity. It's whether or not you believe God's Law should be used
> to set public policy." Conflict between religious and self-described
> moderate Republicans will intensify ahead of the 2008 presidential election,
> Fabrizio said.
>
> The debate is already playing out in Ohio, where an amendment banning gay
> marriage united religious conservatives behind Bush in the 2004 presidential
> race.
>
> Two Ohio pastors who campaigned for the amendment have been accused by a
> group of clergy of violating tax laws by promoting Secretary of State
> Kenneth Blackwell, one of two Republican gubernatorial candidates in the May
> primary election.
>
> Political Advocacy
>
> In a complaint filed with the Internal Revenue Service in January, the
> accusers said Russell Johnson of the Fairfield Christian Church in Lancaster
> and Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church in Columbus violated a provision
> of the tax code barring political advocacy by churches and other nonprofits.
> The complaint cited several alleged instances in which the churches promoted
> Blackwell at religious events, in voter-registration drives and in
> educational materials.
>
> Johnson called the complaint "a form of harassment, and frivolous" in an
> interview. "Christians do not have to give up their citizenship just because
> they go to church," he said. Parsley, who declined to be interviewed, called
> the charges "baseless and without merit" in a statement issued in January,
> and said his church had always complied with federal tax laws.
>
> The IRS, in a report issued last month, said it was stepping up enforcement
> of the ban on political advocacy by tax-exempt groups amid what it called a
> "dramatic' increase in the amount of money such organizations are spending
> on political campaigns. For 2003-2004 it was more than $10 billion, more
> than double the $4 billion spent in the previous presidential election
> cycle, according to the IRS. Of the more than 100 groups being investigated,
> 47 percent are churches, the IRS said.
>
> 'Ground Zero'
>
> Ohio is "ground zero" in a battle that will help determine how successful
> religious conservatives will be in organizing political campaigns through
> churches, said Barry Lynn, executive director of the Washington-based
> advocacy group Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.
>
> If the Ohio attempt succeeds, "there are going to be efforts to clone it in
> other states," he said. Similar networks are already being assembled in
> Texas and Pennsylvania, he said.
>
> Amo Houghton, a former New York Republican congressman, says Republicans
> concerned about the influence of evangelicals should be more aggressive
> about speaking out, particularly with Bush's approval ratings at record
> lows. Houghton, who retired last year, opposed legislation in Congress that
> would have helped legalize partisan activity by churches.
>
> "Political campaigns are trying to identify and enlist friendly
> congregations to reach out to others and establish beachheads in the
> religious community," Houghton said. "I don't think that's right."
>
>
> *
> ================================================================
> NY Transfer News Collective * A Service of Blythe Systems
> Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us
> 339 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10012 http://www.blythe.org
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