soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:
* do you agree or disagree? Holocaust extortion - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/21aa5d8be8c71d53
* Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp") - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
* The end is near....for US occupation of Iraq? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/57f2252d27097fb3
* World War III News, Sunday, April 2nd, 2006 AD....... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6db1c03f9201f54c
* Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
* Anti-porn activists seeking new tactics to fight porn deluge - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6dd21ba0c226b915
* Jorge Mas Canosa=Terrorist - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/679dbccfae7a85d
* Hindus best at managing money - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/55410c7c7fa8b182
* U.K. HINDUS BEST AT MONEY MATTERS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/60227a80906a01ec
* Salah Jafar Proves He's Moron of the Decade - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c7575ce359400ed7
* Immig: Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor Far Behind) - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/72f6aa190f416b83
* KHAZARS AND KARAIMS ARE NOT SEMITES BY ANY STRETCH OF IMAGINATION - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/62f1b2b9c74c9860
==============================================================================
TOPIC: do you agree or disagree? Holocaust extortion
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/21aa5d8be8c71d53
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 3 2006 3:41 am
From: flaviaR@verizon.net
On 1-Apr-2006, "LIBERATOR" <laura.jensen@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> Jake Blues wrote:
> > Fuck you, you Anti-Semitist asshole.
>
> I didn't ask your opinion, I asked if you agree,
[snop rest of hate-filled lies]
And, proving just how stupid he is, the cowardly bigot can't figure out that
he WAS answered.
Susan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp")
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 11:40 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 06:43:13 -0700, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 01:56:56 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can anyone please explain WHY this "song" is nominated for an award??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>At least someone had enough common sense to ensure a 5-second *delay*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is in effect during the show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Because it does a good job of representing the movie that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scored for, which would be the reason any song is nominated in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>oscars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can ya show us where it says THAT is the main criteria for nomination?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where did I say it was the 'main reason'? Again you misiterpret my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>words and ask me to explain your misinterpretation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes you're right. You did say it was "the" reason for its nomination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not the main reason. So my question is even more relevant now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.oscars.org/78academyawards/rules/rule16.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Read the rules and get informed before you get into discussions you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>know little about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where in the rules does it justify voting for a piece of trash.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I see. Everyone was supposed to start with the premise that YOUR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion is the only one that matters. Well, sorry to disappoint you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>but the people who voted obviously couldn't care less about your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion on the matter. Try to live with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I can live with it just fine, because I realized many, many years ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>that the Oscar awards committee was packed with folks who are way out
>>>>>>>>>>>>of the mainstream. Of course, I do keep hoping for a pleasant
>>>>>>>>>>>>surprise now and then, but it looks like I've got more waiting to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It's interesting that you consider yourself the definition of
>>>>>>>>>>>'mainstream' while the real thing moves further and further from you.
>>>>>>>>>>>As I have said in the past, you will die off, just like all the old
>>>>>>>>>>>people who ranted about how rock and roll, jazz and any other kind of
>>>>>>>>>>>music that moved into the mainstream was destroying something and
>>>>>>>>>>>never did. And Rap Music will still be here...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>cRap music will be still be here for a small group of knuckleheads,
>>>>>>>>>>but just because the super-liberal Hollywood types saw fit to give it
>>>>>>>>>>ONE award doesn't mean that it is now "accepted" by the mainstream,
>>>>>>>>>>because it isn't.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's right. Stay in denial you serve a purpose there. An example
>>>>>>>>>of a dying breed. First step, they deny the world is changing around
>>>>>>>>>them, fail to adapt and die off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wrong, wrong and wrong. Now quit dreaming, get out of bed and go do
>>>>>>>>something constructive. Like chase the pimps off your block.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My neighborhood apprently doesn't share the same type of people as
>>>>>>>yours. There are no pimps to worry about around here that I am aware
>>>>>>>of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Did you open your eyes after hitting the street?. But I can assure
>>>>>>you there are NO pimps, gangs, etc, on my block.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Well, you're the one bringing them up so I guess we are again subject
>>>>>to you speaking on a subject of which you are totally ignorant.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I plead guilty to having first-person experience with them.
>>>
>>>Well then I stand corrected. Given that you say that pimps aren't in
>>>your neighborhood I guess you traveled somewhere to have this
>>>'experience' with pimps. A new side of you comes out.
>>
>>Wrong, you stand incorrect as usual. I was talking about the
>>assurance that there are no pimps, gangs, etc, on my block. Because I
>>have a very good ongoing first-person experience with what goes on
>>around here.
>>
>You didn't say you had a first person experience with "what goes on
>around here" you said you had a first person experience with the
>subject that was at hand, pimps and hoes. Now that you've been
>discovered you're running from your words.
Nope, you're just taking my words out of context. Something that's
always given you problems.
>>>>Which of course changes nothing regarding the merits of giving out an
>>>>Oscar to a song which effectively celebrates that lifestyle.
>>>
>>>Then why'd you bring it up?
>>
>>I think you're confused again.
>>
>Because you are changing your story. YOU brought up pimps and hoe not
>me. YOU said that you had a personal experience with them not me.
>Now you are saying that's not what you meant. Well you keep changing
>your story and that will sound confusing.
You're grasping for straws again. Not new.
>>>> Nor does
>>>>it change my conviction that under no circumstances do I want a pimp
>>>>and his entourage of hos EVER to show up in my neighborhood.
>>>>
>>>Yet you claim 'first-person experience'. Where'd the 'experience'
>>>come from?
>>
>>Now I know you are confused.
>>
>So you didn't have the experience you claim above?
I have what I claimed -- knowledge about what goes on in the streets
around my house. Or in the case of pimps, hos, drugs, etc, what
doesn't go on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you claiming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that the song has nothing to do with the movie it was scored for? Are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you claiming that such a criteria has nothing to do with it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nomination?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Virutally every movie made over the past 40 years has a soundtrack, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the fact that this putrid film has a song that "represents" it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>meaningless. I still have no idea, upon reviewing the lyrics, why on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>earth *this* song is worthy of an award.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's because, as you have already admitted, you haven't seen the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>film and you are a poor judge of whether or not it effectively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>represents the film for just that reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Since nearly every movie made has at least one song that "represents"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it at least as well as this one, I still don't see why *this* one has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to win the award.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You haven't seen the movie so you have no legitmate metric to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>your judgement from. Until then it's just you ranting your usual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>uninformed opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, I DO have a "legitmate metric" -- it's called the lyrics, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>I and others around here have referred to, including right here on
>>>>>>>>>>>>this thread. Now grab some coffee, then open yer eyes, and yer mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Your "legitmate metric" is not the one that the oscars use so as far
>>>>>>>>>>>as the "oscar winners" your metric is useless. Go find someone who
>>>>>>>>>>>cares about the songs of old white men wishing for the past.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You missed the point as usual. Of course the Oscar folks didn't take
>>>>>>>>>>the lyrics into account when selecting the award -- if they did, they
>>>>>>>>>>would have had to give the award to someone else.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>According to you who was not part of the process and as such has
>>>>>>>>>nothing except your bigotted notiions to draw from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nothing except the words of the lyrics themselves, which were freely
>>>>>>>>available to any interested party before the awards were decided, and
>>>>>>>>thus could have (and should have) been reviewed by the members of the
>>>>>>>>committee before the vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well, if the words won by themselves you might have a point. But
>>>>>>>unlike you, the people who voted have the ability not only to read the
>>>>>>>words but listen to them with music and then associate them to the
>>>>>>>movie in which it was written for. Thus, not suffering your apparent
>>>>>>>ignorance they had the ability to vote in a way you couldn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wrong. The association was clear enough, and it was all garbage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Your ability to make the association to a movie you didn't see would
>>>>>be miraculous if it was true. But since it isn't we have another
>>>>>demonstration of you speaking of things of which you are ignorant,
>>>>>again.
>>>>
>>>>Wrong, because I know to read, and thus having read the lyrics of the
>>>>"song" that was deemed worthy of an Oscar, I found out all I needed to
>>>>know.
>>>>
>>>No doubt. An ignorant superficial person such as yourself wouldn't
>>>want to take into account the entire scope of criteria to judge the
>>>song. Prejudging something without all the evidence is one of your
>>>specialties.
>>
>>The lyrics are all the evidence I need, and you should read them too.
>
>True, you are of course the psuedo-great white man. Why should you
>actually use the criteria for the award to judge the song? You, in
>your infinate fake powers *believe* you know better.
Guess what silly one, *I* didn't write those lyrics, some black guy
did.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The end is near....for US occupation of Iraq?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/57f2252d27097fb3
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:42 pm
From: "Anonymous Infidel - The Koran Destroyer"
Bad boy wrote:
> "Snipervet91" <skysong77@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:z1RXf.20351$fQ6.12008@trnddc03...
> > "Yeah, I guess we'll throw our hands up in defeat and go on home because
> > some guy named (badboy) says we have
> > lost in Iraq"! You know how many times I've heard this kind of crap in 40
> > years.!! Cannot even count them anymore.
> > You are a bunch of mindless kids with no experience.
> >
Nope. If you are an Iraqi and if you dare venture out to the streets
of Baghdad, you will not throw your hands up and go home.....you will
go home in a body bag.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: World War III News, Sunday, April 2nd, 2006 AD.......
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6db1c03f9201f54c
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 11:27 pm
From: "Nedabiah"
"The Last 2452 daysT ?" <stargatedecember2012@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1144034215.182802.320670@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> K Miller wrote:
>> Life is going to be a 'Bitch' for the Iranian President when he has
>> to "Cow Tow" to the United Nations for assistance in helping those
>> in the Northern Region of Iran that has just suffered 3 Substantial
>> Major earthquakes.
>>
>> But, Israel will still have to see a threat as a "Threat".
>>
>> I still see April 5 as Dooms Day.
>>
>> ;-)
>
> It will come like a thief in the night, Kim !
>
> It will come like a thief in the night !
>
> & very few will be prepared for the coming hell, woken from
> their materialistic slumber like a rude awakening.....
>
> This is definately the year, 2006, when the sh!t hits the fan
> & the Fat Lady bellows !
>
> The best case scenario, if Israel were to delay it's impending,
> imminent,
> pre-emptive strike on Iran would give us only a few weeks to a few
> months
> -- at the very most !!
>
> In the words of Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry:
>
> "I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, did he fire six
> shots or only five? Well to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all
> this excitement. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful
> handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to
> ask yourself a question: do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?"
>
> HOOROO
>
> UNCLE WALLY
>
> ---0---
>
Your obsession with Israel is driving you crazy. Give it up, you don't know
what you are talking about.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> "The Last 2453 daysT ?" <stargatedecember2012@yahoo.ca> wrote in
>> message
>> news:1143952285.164613.115790@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> > http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/701162.html
>> >
>> > Last update - 12:57 01/04/2006
>> >
>> > News of successful Iranian missile test worries Israel, U.S.
>> >
>> > By News Agencies
>> >
>> > Iran successfully test-fired a missile that can avoid radar and
>> hit
>> > several targets simultaneously using multiple warheads, the
>> military
>> > said Friday, a development which raised eyebrows among officials
>> in
>> > Washington and Jerusalem.
>> >
>> > The Fajr-3, which means "Victory" in Farsi, can reach Israel and
>> U.S.
>> > bases in the Middle East, state Iranian media indicated - causing
>> alarm
>> > in the United States and Israel. Friday's announcement also is
>> likely
>> > to stoke regional tensions and feed suspicion about Tehran's
>> military
>> > intentions and nuclear ambitions.
>> >
>> > "I think it demonstrates that Iran has a very active and
>> aggressive
>> > military program under way," U.S. State Department deputy
>> spokesman
>> > Adam Ereli said in Washington. "I think Iran's military posture,
>> > military development effort, is of concern to the international
>> > community.
>> >
>> > Israel said it too was alarmed by the missile report.
>> >
>> > "This news causes much concern," Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark
>> Regev
>> > said. Gen. Hossein Salami, the air force chief of Iran's elite
>> > Revolutionary Guards, did not specify the missile's range, saying
>> it
>> > depends on the weight of its warheads.
>> >
>> > But state-run television described the weapon as "ballistic" -
>> > suggesting it's of comparable range to Iran's existing ballistic
>> > rocket, which can travel over 2,000 kilometers (about 1,200 miles)
>> and
>> > reach arch-foe Israel and U.S. bases in Iraq and the Persian Gulf
>> > region.
>> >
>> > "Today, a remarkable goal of the Islamic Republic of Iran's
>> defense
>> > forces was realized with the successful test-firing of a new
>> missile
>> > with greater technical and tactical capabilities than those
>> previously
>> > produced," Salami said on television, which showed a brief clip of
>> the
>> > missile's launch.
>> >
>> > "It can avoid anti-missile missiles and strike the target," Salami
>> > said. He said the missile would carry a multiple warhead, and each
>> > warhead would be capable of hitting its target precisely.
>> >
>> > "This news causes much concern, and that concern is shared by many
>> > countries in the international community, about Iran's aggressive
>> > nuclear weapons program and her parallel efforts to develop
>> delivery
>> > systems, both in the field of ballistic missiles and cruise
>> missiles,"
>> > said Regev.
>> >
>> > "The combination of extremist jihadist ideology, together with
>> nuclear
>> > weapons and delivery systems, is a combination that no one in the
>> > international community can be complacent about," he said.
>> >
>> > Yossi Alpher, an Israeli consultant on the Mideast peace process,
>> said
>> > the news "escalates the arms race between Iran and all those who
>> are
>> > concerned about Iran's aggressive intentions and nuclear
>> potential."
>> >
>> > "Clearly it's escalation, and also an attempt by Iran to flex its
>> > muscles as it goes into a new phase of the diplomatic struggle
>> with the
>> > UN Security Council." Andy Oppenheimer, a weapons expert at Jane's
>> > Information Group, said the missile test could be an indication
>> that
>> > Iran has MIRV capability. MIRV refers to multiple independently
>> > targetable re-entry vehicles, which are intercontinental ballistic
>> > missiles with several warheads, each of which could hit a
>> different
>> > target.
>> >
>> > "From the description, it could be a MIRV. If you are saying that
>> from
>> > a single missile, separate warheads can be independently targeted
>> then
>> > yes, this is significant," he said.
>> >
>> > "But we don't know how accurate the Iranians are able to make
>> their
>> > missiles yet, and this is a crucial point," Oppenheimer said.
>> >
>> > "If the missile is adaptable for nuclear warheads, then they are
>> well
>> > on the way," he added. "But they have not made a nuclear warhead
>> yet.
>> > The current estimates are it could take five years."
>> >
>> > The existing ballistic rocket is called Shahab-3, which means
>> "shooting
>> > star," and also is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.
>> >
>> > Israel and the United States have jointly developed the Arrow
>> > anti-ballistic missile system in response to the Shahab-3.
>> >
>> > Iran launched an arms development program during its 1980-88 war
>> with
>> > Iraq to compensate for a U.S. weapons embargo. Since 1992, Iran
>> has
>> > produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and a
>> > fighter plane.
>> >
>> > Last year, former Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani said Tehran had
>> > successfully tested a solid fuel motor for the Shahab-3, a
>> > technological breakthrough in Iran's military.
>> >
>> > Salami, the Revolutionary Guards general, said Friday the
>> Iranian-made
>> > missile was test-fired as large military maneuvers began in the
>> Persian
>> > Gulf and the Arabian Sea. The maneuvers are scheduled to last a
>> week
>> > and will involve 17,000 Revolutionary Guards as well as boats,
>> fighter
>> > jets and helicopter gunships.
>> >
>> > The tests come amid growing concern over Iran's nuclear program.
>> The
>> > United States and its allies believe Iran is seeking to develop
>> nuclear
>> > weapons, but Tehran denies that, saying its program is for
>> generating
>> > electricity.
>> >
>> > The UN Security Council is demanding that Iran halt its uranium
>> > enrichment activities. But an Iranian envoy said its activities
>> are
>> > "not reversible."
>> >
>> > Iran says won't use oil as weapon in nuclear row
>> > Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said Teheran would not
>> use
>> > oil as a weapon in the row over its nuclear program and was open
>> to
>> > compromise, comments that caused the price of oil to plummet.
>> >
>> > Mottaki stressed Iran would not give up its right to develop
>> nuclear
>> > energy for civilian use, which he said was enshrined in the
>> nuclear
>> > Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
>> >
>> > "We're not going to use energy as a political leverage," Mottaki
>> told
>> > reporters in Geneva during a two-day visit.
>> >
>> > ---0---
>> >
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:44 pm
From: richasiankid@hotmail.com
drydem wrote:
> richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > drydem wrote:
> > > richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > Komin wrote:
> > > > > richasian
> > > > >
> > > > > I disagree with you there , the WASP will always win in the USA .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not if you're the last one left.
> > > > Demographics is Destiny.
> > >
> > > That's rather marxist of you.
> > > Have you decide to become a socialist?
> > > History tells me
> > > that number aren't always important.
> > > History is full of stories of
> > > a smaller group of people
> > > controlling a larger group of people.
> > >
> > > anyway as a rich kid
> > > shouldn't you be advocating ...the golden rule
> > > He who has the gold makes the rules. :-P
> >
> > You're trolling here, just like how you replied to my 4 points earlier,
> > off topic, delving into devilish details etc, so let me reply on April
> > Fools.
>
> LOL. Hit a weak spot? Did I offend you?
> I did not mean it that way... I just was
> surprised by your previous statement.
> Wth a moniker "richasiankid" isn't it reasonable
> to expect some characterization or
> poetic/prose that your moniker implies?
> How could any reply to your original thread be
> on-topic to the newsgroup? How could a reply
> addressing the socialistic ramifications to your
> political manifesto be off topic? Is it not the
> role of a newsgroup to delve into the devilish
> details?
> One might say you are in the hell
> hole of chat rooms - a sort of twilight zone
> of intelligensia. :-P
>
No I thought I was just amusing you. Remember that thread a while back?
You said I was being very funny almost like making a clown out of
myself! And you have no idea how much I'm chuckling ("mischievously")
behind typing some of these posts - though some are more serious than
others. (Still, your questions about why not 55 year old women vs 30
year old women, and then suddenly talking about the beauty of pi [!!]
and beagles, is just ridiculous! That's very trollish, no? But like I
said I respect your sexual preference and I discriminate against no
one!)
>
> > If anything you can label me more as a 'fascist'? ("Whoa!! Oh no!!
> > RichAsianKid's a fascist!???") Afterall I have said or implied in the
> > past in no uncertain terms that universalism is doomed. With a
> > collectivist mentality I may well be a 'nationalist', though my
> > 'socioeconomic status' would make this quite difficult.
>
> If universalism is doom how can demographics = destiny
> (political manifesto suggesting collective political power)?
Looks like many ethnic groups, and HIspanics, rally around their own
kind, and some are not shy to articulate how anti-American they are
openly. I respect people's opinions, but I sense that if enough of them
are here, then even 'rich people' may not be able to contain them!
Uggghhh!!
> Isn't political manifesto the product of money and military power
> not the other way around?
Aren't we all socialists now? America is a culture of complaint I
think. There are few non-communist countries where being poor is
practically elevated to saint status!! (I'm again saying this
metaphorically). And besides the poor here are really quite 'rich'
compared to 3rd world countries. So yes once what you said above used
to be the case, now it seems that the tables have turned and the rich
people are persecuted. (Fortunately when people blame me implicitly
for their woes I can easily tell them 'er, wrong guy. I'm poor too! I
don't have $50 million US [defined as 'rich' arbitarily, though you can
raise this to $100 million if not more], no most certainly not -- so
why not take it to the next guy over there!)
> If demographics equals political destiny how could a few
> outnumbered spanish soldiers defeat and conquer the
> massive number of warriors in central america?
Democracy?
> Even in peace time,
> massive number of people don't equate to power
> especially when the economic assets are unevenly
> distributed, e.g. feudal system.
>
> >
> > More seiously I'm not sure that the good has always triumphed - that's
> > how many 'paleoconservatives' look at things. The 'neoconservatives'
> > however seem to have a different mindset. (What's the purpose of
> > evolution? There is none. Incidentally I'm not a conservative - at
> > least not in the social arena.)
>
> I don't like using the labels *conservative* or *liberal* because
> they are too abstract and obscure describing how the real
> world functions. Adding the prefix "neo" or "paleo" to those
> terms doesn't make them any more acceptable either.
> However, I have no problems with your moniker
> richkid because it has a descriptive real world focus suggesting
> a sociological point of view.
>
There are many debates on 'rich' though - I won't get into that
here...it's a hellhole of ngs anyway!!
>
> > And about this business of smaller group of people controlling a larger
> > group of people - are you referring to the Jews in particular?
>
> in the past
> ---------------
> Spain's control of central and south america.
> European Aristocracy vs common folks
> Manchu (Qi) Dynasty control over china
> British's control of India/The subcontinent.
>
> Currently
> -------------
> Indonesia.
> Saudia Arabia
> Nepal
> North Korea
> Any large corporation, e.g. Wal-mart, Dupont
> any large religious institution, e.g. Mormon Church(Church of Latter
> day Saints)
>
> Istm that human social institution tend to be
> heirarchial in nature rather than democratic or egalitarianistic.
> Which is one of the reasons I think
> marxism and socialism has fallen short.
>
Yes, I absolutely agree. I think that's where all this fails. In fact,
the current egalitarian thrust is based on similar principles. It may
be aimed to appease envy - and part of the reason this needs to be the
case is that some visually identifiable groups are not doing well and
they mobilize along their own lines.
Going back to this illegal immigration business - pun there! - I think
that a small dose wouldn't hurt (people will hang me for saying
this!!), but there is a tipping point, and once you tip over I think it
will clear that it is very detrimental. See Amy Chua again quoted
below - you'll be placed in a situation where there are hordes of
underachieving illiterate low IQ people running around an embattled
minority of visually distinct elites - and then who knows. It is
conceivable though that the elite will then wield the sword again, but
it's not quite clear.
> > You do
> > know that (liberal) Yale Law Professor Amy Chua (Asian, too, again see
> > how I have this talent of integrating things, to keep this at least
> > tangentially on topic) wrote a book called World on Fire, correct?
> > Market dominant minorities have often been persecuted in the past.
> > Being rich is not always a blessing. I'm glad that you pointed that
> > out. People think that the 'rich' has it all but that's not always the
> > case. Money is like sex, the more you have the more you want that type
> > of thing. And people get envious all the time, for no good reason, and
> > envy, just like lust, is one of the 7 cardinal sins.
>
> people can hate you or despise you for any number of
> things - some for no good reason at all. You can't control
> what people think no more than you can make the sun
> rise in the morning or set in the evening. Why should
> you care what other people think?
EQ? (see, I'm not an IQ fundamentalist or IQ hawk)
>
> Money is awlful useful to have around but I wouldn't
> get all bent out of shape for it. Money is a resource
> like a trade skill or useful business contacts. It's
> not particularly bad or good. Istm it's what people
> do with their money that makes them bad or good.
>
>
It's a magnifier, like IQ.
> > I think there is a tipping point, up to a certain degree it's good to
> > have underlings; eventually these orcs as NYC XYZ in this ng labels
> > them will have a mind of their own. It's game theory as you drydem may
> > say it; it's dynamic and nonlinear as Chess One (from another
> > newsgroup, but x-posted here) might say it; it's entropic as others
> > will conceptualize it.
>
>
> A dynamic game (where rules change from each play/frame)
> would not be predictable.
> Humans relationships is full of situations where
> the rules of the game are change in midstream...
>
I read somewhere that says that IQ is marker for capacity for
goal-directed action and ability to adapt to changes...
> >
> > This applies to Hispanic/Latino immigration. It's like chocolate - no
> > that's not a pun - there can be too much of a good thing....
>
> does the hispanic/latino community have enough
> economic power to push for favorable immigration policies?
> how does their economic power or lack of it
> manifest itself?
>
By bloc voting they may wield their power through politics - look at
PapaPeng's post to this thread
> >
> > And yes 'rich kids' do make the rules but you still cannot flout
> > reality....see, I can tell you're trolling here....as another example
> > your BMW slip differential does not let you flout the laws of physics
> > and hard corner in a skating rink that type of thing.
>
> Trolling me? LOL. nonsense.
That's ok, you're entitled to. ;)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 3 2006 3:45 am
From: flaviaR@verizon.net
On 1-Apr-2006, "drydem" <walter_lee@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > I like you already (errr, actually, not that much). You're a very open
> > guy. Bestiality - i.e. pansexualism - is not that hip yet. I mentioned
> > this in another thread earlier.
>
> LOL.
> "Esthetically" not "Sexually"
> In your effort to be clever, your comprehension skill takes a nose
> dive.
> My point is that not all
> not all attraction is sexual in nature.
And not all 20 year old girls can beat out 30 year old women.
Susan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anti-porn activists seeking new tactics to fight porn deluge
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6dd21ba0c226b915
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 3 2006 1:43 pm
From: sorry@no.email.com (Old Joe)
pass the pr0n <amenbro@pass.it> wrote:
> "But I'm convinced we'll demonstrate in the not-too-distant future the
> actual physical harm that pornography causes
Friction burns?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jorge Mas Canosa=Terrorist
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/679dbccfae7a85d
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:47 pm
From: Seneca
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:39:03 -0700, Miguel <michaelgayoso1948@msn.com>
wrote:
> torresD wrote:
>> http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/19650713.pdf
>
> Dorotea,
>
> Estas mas loca que una chiva.
>
> Jorge Mas Canosa fue un gran cubano. Que Dios lo tenga en la gloria!
Afortunadamente se le esta quemando el culo en el infierno junto a todods
los traidores a la patria de Siboney, la de los grandes heroes mambises y
de Jose Marti.
Loor y gloria a Pachin Marin, genereal Boricua en la manigua Cubana quien
hoy se le caga en la madre a los gusanos.
>
> La Fundacion Cubano-Americana sigue adelante hasta la victoria.
>
> Para mis hermanos latinos:
>
> http://www.canf.org/2005/principal.htm
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 11:47 pm
From: "Crusader"
Lo que todo cubano libre hubiera hecho de tener la oportunidad,I pray for
such a chance to do it myself.
" torresD" <torresd30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:of%Xf.13089$k75.10651@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Miguel" <michaelgayoso1948@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1144028342.951172.231050@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/19650713.pdf
>
>> Dorotea,
>
>> Estas mas loca que una chiva.
> Como exlicas ese documento, Miguelito?
>
>> Jorge Mas Canosa fue un gran cubano. Que Dios lo tenga en la gloria!
>>
>> La Fundacion Cubano-Americana sigue adelante hasta la victoria.
>>
>> Para mis hermanos latinos:
>>
>> http://www.canf.org/2005/principal.htm
>
>
> Jorge Mas Canosa fue el fundador financiero de Luis Posada Carriles
> y Orlando Bosch.
>
> Quiere que te de la lista de las bombas que los Cubanos/Terrorista
> explotaron en los EE.UU?
>
> Yo se que te la sabes de memoria.
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hindus best at managing money
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/55410c7c7fa8b182
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:47 pm
From: "naureen101@aol.com"
habshi wrote:
> Because their multiple gods and godesses teach them to be
> flexible . While the rigidity imposed by cruel non existent Allah
> causes Muslims to fall into poverty.
The richest man in india happens to be a muslim ;) . Hindus save money
because they can starve themselves to death. Most indians will just
live on dahl chapati every day and wear the same clothes they bought 10
years ago. There houses are full of garage sale stuff.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.K. HINDUS BEST AT MONEY MATTERS
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/60227a80906a01ec
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 11:33 pm
From: "karthika"
Hindus were the inventors of the NUMERAL sytem and naturally they inherit
the skills with numbers!
"fruitella" <visualseeplus@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144027782.083424.236640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Coming from a poor country like India makes people want to get rich.
> That's why new immigranted Indians want to work hard and make money.
> They cannot believe the opportunities before them in the west. More so
> they cannot believe why locals are not taking advantage of the system
> of meritocracy to get wealthy.
>
> But after a generation or two, the decendants of that newcommers
> generation loses the fire in the belly. They no longer have any
> connection to their motherland. Their motherland is a far and distant
> place from where they are disconnected. And thus begins the descent
> into mediocracy.
>
> They would do best to follow Spock's advice :
>
> LIVE LONG & PROSPER!!!!!
>
> Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> > I observe that we Hindus manage money better than any other
> > group here in the US too.
> >
> > Jai Maharaj
> > http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> > http://www.mantra.com/jai
> > Om Shanti
> >
> > imemind@comcast.net posted:
> > >
> > > Call it an Indian trait. I have seen too many people from India who
> > > immigrated abroad with handful of money that could not have lasted
them
> > > even a day eventually make it big by sheer hard work, sacrifices,
> > > frugal living and cooperative spirit. They make opportunities where
> > > none exist. They remain uneffected by ups or downs, riches or
poverty.
> > > They renew their bonds with their communities in times of need, in
> > > times of their opulence. Community that stays togather, propspers
> > > togather. Family and community remain their focus. They always think
of
> > > their future needs and readily sacrifice present needs for it. This is
> > > a typical Indian cultural mindset inhertited by most indian immigrants
> > > - You can call it money management - but it is essentially a cultural
> > > mindset.
> >
> >
> > www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:
> > > UK Hindus best at money matters
> > >
> > > By Sajeda Momin
> > > Saturday, April 1, 2006 22:37 IST
> > >
> > > London - Hindus are the best managers
> > > of their personal finances and are
> > > closely followed by Sikhs says an
> > > official government study looking
> > > into the financial capabilities of
> > > households in Britain.
> > >
> > > The largest ever survey of consumer
> > > attitudes to money in Britain threw
> > > up the unexpected results and puzzled
> > > researchers.
> > >
> > > The study was carried out by Personal
> > > Finance Research Centre at the
> > > University of Bristol on behalf of
> > > the Financial Services Authority, a
> > > government body, which was looking
> > > predominantly at age and type of
> > > households i.e. single parent, two-
> > > parent etc. and how they dealt with
> > > their finances.
> > >
> > > However the small print on those
> > > quizzed generated a wealth of
> > > fascinating information including
> > > that Hindus were far above average at
> > > managing their money. A sample 6,000
> > > people were surveyed from all walks
> > > of life and communities throughout
> > > Britain and special weighting was
> > > given to representation from the
> > > ethnic minorities equal to their
> > > numbers in society.
> > >
> > > The results showed that among
> > > Britain's religious groups Hindus
> > > were the best at "making ends meet",
> > > followed very closely by Sikhs, and
> > > they were far better than others at
> > > managing their money were. Muslims
> > > were also better than average and
> > > practising Christians were just above
> > > average. The poorest at managing
> > > their money were non-religious groups
> > > particularly those between the ages
> > > of 18-40.
> > >
> > > The FSA developed a well-defined
> > > scoring system for the questionnaire
> > > and looked into issues like how good
> > > households were at keeping track of
> > > their finances, predicting future
> > > expenses and attitudes towards the
> > > use of credit and spending habits.
> > > The survey looked at which households
> > > planned ahead, how they chose
> > > financial products and their
> > > attitudes to financial risks. Cluster
> > > analysis were carried out taking into
> > > account the fact that some households
> > > were of extended families in many
> > > South Asian communities, and so the
> > > finances were managed by one or two
> > > persons for the whole family.
> > >
> > > The survey did not break up the faith
> > > groups into communities, but
> > > Gujaratis and Punjabis are the
> > > largest Hindu groups living in
> > > Britain.
> > >
> > > "My family emphasised that you paid
> > > cash and did not borrow - except for
> > > the mortgage. I have to be a good
> > > money manager for both my business
> > > and my two children,: said Rita
> > > Patel, who came to Britain 30 years
> > > ago. She now owns a newsagent shop
> > > and lives in Harrow in northwest
> > > London that is home to the UK's
> > > largest Hindu community. The results
> > > reflect the Hindu mentality of being
> > > 'savvy' with money she said. "I was
> > > brought up to save and not waste,"
> > > said Patel.
> > >
> > > While some believe that Hinduism
> > > stresses increasing the family's
> > > wealth is a duty and a blessing from
> > > Goddess Lakshmi others argued that
> > > Hindus were generally brought up to
> > > work hard and not splash out.
> > >
> > > More at:
> > > http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1021495
> > >
> > > Jai Maharaj
> > > http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> > > http://www.mantra.com/jai
> > > Om Shanti
> > >
> > > Hindu Holocaust Museum
> > > http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
> > >
> > > Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
> > > http://www.hindu.org
> > > http://www.hindunet.org
> > >
> > > The truth about Islam and Muslims
> > > http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
> > >
> > > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
> > > purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post
may not
> > > have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
the
> > > poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption
for
> > > fair use of copyrighted works.
> > > o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
> > > considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
> > > e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
> > > o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by
others are
> > > not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.
> > >
> > > FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use
of
> > > which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the
copyright
> > > owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
> > > understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
> > > democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
believed
> > > that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
> > > provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance
with Title
> > > 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed
without
> > > profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
> > > information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes
by
> > > subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
> > > go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
> > > If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes
of
> > > your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from
the
> > > copyright owner.
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Salah Jafar Proves He's Moron of the Decade
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c7575ce359400ed7
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:49 pm
From: flaviaR@verizon.net
On 1-Apr-2006, kmcvay@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> In article <ZzwXf.334$zk4.2@trnddc05>, Salah Jafar <codeman@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Being the true Christians that we are, Landover members have turned a
> >blind eye to the
>
> Christian my Aunt Fanny - you're gutter trash, pure and simple.
THIS IDIOT HAS LATCHED ONTO "LANDOVER BAPTIST" -
IT'S A
****PARODY****!!!!
ROTFLMHOHMSWTIME!!!!
Susan
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:50 pm
From: flaviaR@verizon.net
On 2-Apr-2006, Bill Levinson <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote:
> Salah Jafar wrote:
>
> > What sister?, you believe everything you read. I have 5 brother and all
> > ready to fuck you in the ass Tilly E.
>
> That is believable, noting the buck Islamofascist's propensity for rape.
And proves, once again, the utter impotence of the usual bigot:
He can't defeat her with words, so he threatens her with the most
disgustingly sexual attack he can imagine - his favorite, of course.
Susan
>
>
> > In Algeria we kill anyone convert. Jews in Algeria all left because they
> > will know what will do to them if they stayed. They supported the French
> > and now they paid.
> > SJ
>
> We definitely need another Crusade. Invade their countries, kill their
> leaders, and convert them to Christianity-- or anything but Islamofascism.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Immig: Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor Far Behind)
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/72f6aa190f416b83
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:51 pm
From: NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Immig: Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor Far Behind)
Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
[This is an excellent analysis of the current immigration issue. Don't
be put off by the first paragraph. In the latter paragraphs, Hartmann
clarifies that both Republicans and Democrats fall basically into
the camps of corportatists or racists. It's high time someone brought
a little common sense and sanity to this debate, and Hartmann does that
here. -NY Transfer]
Common Dreams - Mar 29, 2006
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0329-21.htm
Today's Immigration Battle
Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)
by Thom Hartmann
The corporatist Republicans ("amnesty!") are fighting with the racist
Republicans ("fence!"), and it provides an opportunity for progressives to
step forward with a clear solution to the immigration problem facing
America.
Both the corporatists and the racists are fond of the mantra, "There are
some jobs Americans won't do." It's a lie.
Americans will do virtually any job if they're paid a decent wage. This
isn't about immigration - it's about economics. Industry and agriculture
won't collapse without illegal labor, but the middle class is being crushed
by it.
The reason why thirty years ago United Farm Workers' Union (UFW) founder
Caesar Chávez fought against illegal immigration, and the UFW turned in
illegals during his tenure as president, was because Chávez, like
progressives since the 1870s, understood the simple reality that labor rises
and falls in price as a function of availability.
As Wikipedia notes: "In 1969, Chávez and members of the UFW marched through
the Imperial and Coachella Valley to the border of Mexico to protest
growers' use of illegal aliens as temporary replacement workers during a
strike. Joining him on the march were both the Reverend Ralph Abernathy and
U.S. Senator Walter Mondale. Chávez and the UFW would often report suspected
illegal aliens who served as temporary replacement workers as well as who
refused to unionize to the INS."
Working Americans have always known this simple equation: More workers,
lower wages. Fewer workers, higher wages.
Progressives fought - and many lost their lives in the battle - to limit the
pool of "labor hours" available to the Robber Barons from the 1870s through
the 1930s and thus created the modern middle class. They limited labor-hours
by pushing for the 50-hour week and the 10-hour day (and then later the
40-hour week and the 8-hour day). They limited labor-hours by pushing for
laws against child labor (which competed with adult labor). They limited
labor-hours by working for passage of the 1935 Wagner Act that provided for
union shops.
And they limited labor-hours by supporting laws that would regulate
immigration into the United States to a small enough flow that it wouldn't
dilute the unionized labor pool. As Wikipedia notes: "The first laws
creating a quota for immigrants were passed in the 1920s, in response to a
sense that the country could no longer absorb large numbers of unskilled
workers, despite pleas by big business that it wanted the new workers."
Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million
unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer
counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed
workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it,
most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either
working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed,"
doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's
between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many
unable to find above-poverty-level work.
At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working
illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.
If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the
minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to
confront and fix their corrupt ways.
Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million
illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25
percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent.
Much of this is the direct result - as Caesar Chávez predicted - of illegal
immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's
most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all
sectors of our economy.
Democratic Party strategist Ann Lewis just sent out a mass email on behalf
of former Wal-Mart Board of Directors member and now US Senator Hillary
Rodham Clinton. In it, Lewis noted that Clinton suggests we should have: "An
earned path to citizenship for those already here working hard, paying
taxes, respecting the law, and willing to meet a high bar for becoming a
citizen." Sounds nice. The same day, on his radio program, Rush Limbaugh
told a woman whose husband is an illegal immigrant that she had nothing to
worry about with regard to deportation of him or their children because all
he'd have to do - under the new law under consideration - is pay a small
fine and learn English.
The current Directors of Wal-Mart are smiling.
Meanwhile, the millions of American citizens who came to this nation as
legal immigrants, who waited in line for years, who did the hard work to
become citizens, are feeling insulted, humiliated, and conned.
Shouldn't we be compassionate? Of course.
But there is nothing compassionate about driving down the wages of any
nation's middle class. It's the most cynical, self-serving, greedy, and
sociopathic behavior you'll see from our "conservatives."
There is nothing compassionate about being the national enabler of a
dysfunctional oligarchy like Mexico. An illegal workforce in the US sending
an estimated $17 billion to Mexico every year - second only in national
income to that country's oil revenues - supports an antidemocratic,
anti-worker, hyperconservative administration there that gleefully ships out
of that nation the "troublesome" Mexican citizens - those lowest on the
economic food-chain and thus most likely to present "labor unrest" - to the
USA. Mexico (and other "sending nations") need not deal with their own
social and economic problems so long as we're willing to solve them for them
- - at the expense of our middle class. Democracy in Central and South America
be damned - there are profits to be made for Wal-Mart!
Similarly, there is nothing compassionate about handing higher profits
(through a larger and thus cheaper work force) to the CEOs of America's
largest corporations and our now-experiencing-record-profits construction
and agriculture industries.
What about caring for people in need? Isn't that the universal
religious/ethical value? Of course.
A few years ago, when my family and I were visiting Europe, one of our
children fell sick. A doctor came to the home of the people we were staying
with, visited our child at 11 pm on a weeknight, left behind a course of
antibiotics, and charged nothing. It was paid for by that nation's universal
health care system. We should offer the same to any human being in need of
medical care - a universal human right - in the United States.
But if I'd applied to that nation I was visiting for a monthly unemployment
or retirement check, I would have been laughed out of the local government
office. And if I'd been caught working there, I would have been deported
within a week. Caring for people in crisis/need is very different from
giving a job or a monthly welfare check to non-citizens. No nation - even
those in Central and South America - will do that. And neither should the
United States.
But if illegal immigrants won't pick our produce or bus our tables won't our
prices go up? (The most recent mass-emailed conservative variation of this
argument, targeting paranoid middle-class Americans says: "Do you want to
pay an extra $10,000 for your next house?") The answer is simple: Yes.
But wages would also go up, and even faster than housing or food prices. And
CEO salaries, and corporate profits, might moderate back to the levels they
were during the "golden age of the American middle class" between the 1940s
and Reagan's declaration of war on the middle class in the 1980s.
We saw exactly this scenario played out in the US fifty years ago, when
unions helped regulate entry into the workforce, 35 percent of American
workers had a union job, and 70 percent of Americans could raise a family on
a single, 40-hour-week paycheck. All working Americans would gladly pay a
bit more for their food if their paychecks were both significantly higher
and more secure. (This would even allow for an increase in the minimum wage
- - as it did from the 1930s to the 1980s.)
But what about repressive régimes? Aren't we denying entrance to this
generation's equivalent of the Jews fleeing Germany? This is the most tragic
of all the arguments put forward by conservatives in the hopes compassionate
progressives will bite. Our immigration policies already allow for refugees
- - and should be expanded. It's an issue that needs more national discussion
and action. But giving a free pass to former Coca-Cola executive Vincente
Fox to send workers to the US - and thus avoid having to deal with his own
corrupt oligarchy - and to equate this to the Holocaust is an insult to the
memory of those who died in Hitler's death camps - and to those suffering in
places like Darfur under truly repressive regimes. There is no equivalence.
It's frankly astonishing to hear "progressives" reciting
corporatist/racist/conservative talking points, recycled through
"conservative Democratic" politicians trying to pander to the relatively
small percentage of recently-legal (mostly through recent amnesties or
birth) immigrants who are trying to get their relatives into this country by
means of Bush's proposed guest worker program or the many variations thereof
being proposed.
It's equally astonishing to hear the few unions going along with this (in
the sad/desperate hope of picking up new members) turn their backs on Caesar
Chávez and the traditions and history of America's Progressive and Union
movements by embracing illegal immigration.
Every nation has an obligation to limit immigration to a number that will
not dilute its workforce, but will maintain a stable middle class - if it
wants to have a stable democracy. This has nothing to do with race, national
origin, or language (visit Switzerland with it's ethnic- and language-dived
areas!), and everything to do with economics.
Without a middle class, any democracy is doomed. And without labor having -
through control of labor availability - power in relative balance to
capital/management, no middle class can emerge. America's early labor
leaders did not die to increase the labor pool for the Robber Barons or the
Walton family - they died fighting to give control of it to the workers of
their era and in the hopes that we would continue to hold it - and infect
other nations with the same idea of democracy and a stable middle class.
The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee
immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal
workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no
"legalizations") regardless of how they got here; to confront employers who
hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties; and to affirm
that while health care (and the right to provide humanitarian care to all
humans) is an absolute right for all people within our boundaries regardless
of status, a paycheck, education, or subsidy is not.
The Republican (and Democratic) corporatists who want a cheap labor force,
and the Republican (and Democratic) racists who want to build a fence and
punish humanitarian aid workers, are equally corrupt and anti-progressive.
As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire
illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America
Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own
volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US
will obtain citizenship through normal channels.
This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better
this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to
stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire
them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a
Guatemalan Dream (and so on).
This is the historic Progressive vision for all of the Americas...
[Thom Hartmann is a Project Censored Award-winning best-selling author and
host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk show carried on the
Air America Radio network and Sirius. www.thomhartmann.com His most recent
books include "What Would Jefferson Do?" and "Ultimate Sacrifice"
(co-authored with Lamar Waldron). His next book, due out this autumn, is
"Screwed: The Undeclared War on the Middle Class and What We Can Do About
It."]
*
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TOPIC: KHAZARS AND KARAIMS ARE NOT SEMITES BY ANY STRETCH OF IMAGINATION
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/62f1b2b9c74c9860
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:52 pm
From: flaviaR@verizon.net
On 2-Apr-2006, "Scott Nudds" <sc0tt_nudds@yahoo.com> wrote:
> AnonMoos asked:
>
> >How seriously are we to take the claims of somebody who doesn't know
> >enough about Hebrew to tell apart a singular from a clear plural???
>
> How pedantically puerile of you.
Dodge noted.
>
> Grammar and speling Nazis pompous fools are.
This was a little more complicated than that, but thanks for playing -
and showing that you have no defense for the things the bigots were saying.
Susan
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