Freetalk about USA culture: 21 new messages in 14 topics

The culture of the United States of America.

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Wednesday, April 05, 2006

21 new messages in 14 topics - digest ==>Read...

soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Round 3 on group differences: Are Asians (esp Koreans) more feminine? Music
sez - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fc4ef5a180d50686
* PARA LOS ESPANIOLES, ARGENTINOS, JAPONESES, RUSOS, EUROPEOS...ETC DEL FORO -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a2ed43ae8c93aa41
* SECURING THE KIKE REALM - 5 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8dd1ed5cdcb29a1b
* Blood on the White House Carpets - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e67cd3ef430aa62
* Golpea policía a joven en Santa Clara. Gulag Cuba - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f3f4b6addde5a354
* NO HABRA SOLUCION PACIFICA EN VENEZUELA....ESTO YO LO HABIA ADVERTIDO A LA
PERIODISTA DESDE ANTES DE LAS ELECCIONES EN QUE CHAVEZ GANO. - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/da4fd1c3408fe607
* "We are the TERRORISTS..." - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/019537260e534dde
* Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
* PKK Terrorists cannot learn their lesson - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ba7737386830d090
* INDONESIA: IS ISLAMIC NUKES ARE READY FOR AUSTRALIA? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a57fd90c18d2c12c
* Turkey Go For EU - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7bf46a750c995753
* Gogala Would Never Call Ali Baba Bush A Liar, No Sirree! - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51b6de1adf5c9e5b
* El Pan Polémico - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d2fe99e321b33179
* LEPANTO Por Hugo J. Byrne - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/147a0ee3a7acd4fe

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Round 3 on group differences: Are Asians (esp Koreans) more feminine?
Music sez
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fc4ef5a180d50686
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 10:54 pm
From: "RichAsianKid"

helenuhm wrote:
> I think at this point, everyone's getting laid more than you, kid,
> including the effeminent K-pop stars Chinese and Japanese love (it's
> called "Hallyu" - the "Korean Wave").
>
> You could hate on Korean pop stars all you want b/c you're obviously
> not getting any due to your responsibilities to stay home on weekends
> to write posts for various NG's.
>
> Seriously though... You're home on EVERY weekend writing posts... I
> gave you the benefit of the doubt, but I KNOW you're not the person
> you're saying you are. RichAsianKid... uh huh... sure...

Still haven't gotten over that BMW vs Mercedes post, have we? But I
have a soft spot for you *precisely* because of that topic!! Anyway I
see that you're back in your scornful mom mode once again, no longer in
that 'motherly cuddly' mode, which was too warm and girly for me
anyway.

And OK, for the record, I don't "hate" these Korean pop stars. But I'm
just surprised at how feminine the media makes make them to be. I think
that reflects a lot on the culture, maybe even biology! And yes I think
some of these stars may win the hearts of the gay community in the US
actually. Maybe if they score some of these cuties in Brokeback
Mountain II or something then Koreanpop will become famous.

And besides middle-aged Korean women love them too. I was told this by
a friend whose mother love them - just couldn't believe that mid 40s or
maybe 50s housewives would love these guys though.

(And of course I'm home on weekends, I have to; 'tis the damned season
afterall)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PARA LOS ESPANIOLES, ARGENTINOS, JAPONESES, RUSOS, EUROPEOS...ETC DEL
FORO
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a2ed43ae8c93aa41
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 1:38 am
From: "PM"

PARA LOS ESPANIOLES, ARGENTINOS, JAPONESES, RUSOS, EUROPEOS...ETC DEL FORO

Cien años de perdón para la deuda cubana.

Por Martín Simonetta.*

Uno de las cuestiones clave de la actual visita a la Argentina del canciller
cubano Felipe Pérez Roque es la abultada deuda que Cuba mantiene con el
estado nacional. La misma asciende a una cifra que oscila entre los 1.500 y
los 1.900 millones de dólares, de acuerdo a diferentes fuentes. Aún
considerando el monto menor, vemos que la Argentina es el segundo mayor
acreedor de Cuba, sólo después de Japón.[1]

El origen de dicha deuda se remonta en dos períodos históricos bien
definidos: la presidencia de Juan Domingo Perón en 1974 -en la que se
exportaron partes de automóviles y maquinaria argentina sin recibir la
correspondiente contraprestación- y el gobierno de Raúl Alfonsín, diez años
después.

Más allá del voluntarista slogan de la visita -"duplicar el actual
intercambio comercial con la isla"- uno de los desafíos de Pérez Roque es
concretar la propuesta realizada oportunamente por el Gobierno de Fidel
Castro: lograr una quita del 75 por ciento de dicha deuda.

Radiografia de otro "defaultedor"
Los problemas de pago de Cuba no se limitan a la Argentina sino que tiene
conflictos similares con Japón, España, Francia, Gran Bretaña, Sudáfrica,
Chile, México y Venezuela, entre otros países.

Si bien no coincide estrictamente con la información de los acreedores, el
Banco Central de Cuba sostiene que la deuda pública en moneda dura de aquel
país ascendía a una cifra cercana a los 13 mil millones de dólares, además
de varios miles de millones de créditos comerciales en renegociación y unos
20 mil millones adeudados a Rusia. Esto, además de 6.3 mil millones de
dólares provenientes de reclamos de ciudadanos americanos así como un
desconocido aunque importante pasivo de nacionales cubanos cuyas propiedades
fueron confiscadas por el régimen. La consultora Dunn and Bradstreet
sostiene que Cuba es una de las economías más riesgosas del planeta: sólo
Angola, Congo, Sierra Leona, Zimbabwe e Irak se hallan en peores
situaciones.

Recientemente Cuba experimentó una dinámica agenda en materia de default, a
saber:

· Defaulteó en Octubre del 2002 un acuerdo de refinanciación de $750
millones con el sector privado de Japón, luego de haber firmado una
re-estructuración en 1998.

· Suspendió todos los pagos en Octubre del 2002 sobre una deuda de $380
millones de dólares a Bancomex, el banco de comercio internacional de
México.

· El régimen de castro ha caído en diferentes cesaciones de pago a pesar de
los generosos términos del acuerdo firmado con Hugo Chávez en octubre del
2002, con relación a la deuda de petróleo con PDVSA, la compañía petrolera
estatal venezolana. La misma ascendía a 266 millones en mayo del 2003.
Venezuela provee alrededor del 25% del petróleo que consume la isla.

· Cayó en falta de pago en créditos de corto plazo con bancos y compañías
comerciales de Panamá en el 2002.

· En mayo del 2003, el gobierno español puso en conocimiento a su par de
Cuba que era el primer deudor soberano de España, con una deuda en cesación
de pagos estimada en $816 millones de dólares.

· La empresa financiera de exportaciones francesa, COFACE, suspendió una
línea de crédito de $175 millones luego de que La Habana dejara de pagar por
más de un año créditos correspondientes a productos agrícolas y bienes de
capital en el 2001.

· El gobierno italiano retiró un paquete de ayuda de 40 millones en Julio
del 2003 en respuesta al tratamiento de Castro hacia los disidentes. Hasta
ese momento el gobierno cubano había acumulado una deuda de corto plazo de
73 millones de dólares con Italia.

La inclusión del tema de la deuda de Cuba con Argentina en la agenda
bilateral, así como el aplazamiento del viaje del presidente Kirchner a la
isla - al menos por el 2004- indican del fin de una etapa de amplia
dispersión entre las dos puntas del doble discurso oficial. El año electoral
en los Estados Unidos y el fuerte peso de la comunidad cubano-americana en
Estados claves como la Florida ha puesto claros límites a actitudes
provocativas, meses atrás permitidas.

Difícil será la tarea del gobierno argentino de rechazar la propuesta cubana
de pagar apenas un 25% de la deuda en default, cuando es la misma quita que
en estos momentos está proponiendo a los acreedores privados.

* Director ejecutivo de la Fundación Atlas.

--
CALLES DE LA HABANA: (ESTE WEBSITE ES UNA JOYA)

Calle http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/calle23/index.htm 23
Quinta http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/quinta/index.htm
Avenida
Línea <http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/linea/index.htm
Almendares
http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/almendares/index.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SECURING THE KIKE REALM
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8dd1ed5cdcb29a1b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 5:57 am
From: "DoD"

<Boedicia@isp.com> wrote in message
news:1144302209.650077.120220@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> DoD wrote:
>> <Boedicia@isp.com> wrote in message
>> news:1143869292.870240.104240@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > DoD wrote:
>> >> "Calife" <user@user.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:442c03d5$0$18327$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>> >> > BernardZ wrote:
>> >> > > In article <MsRWf.15204$g6.11008@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
>> >> > > serwad@bellsouth.net says...
>> >> > >> Look at Palestine. Horror/chaos destabilizes people and it
>> >> > >> takes generations to restabilize and build back a civilization.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Actually this is a true statement. When Israel ruled the region it
>> >> > > was
>> >> > > claim and one of the fastest growing economy in the world.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Now look at what replaced it.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm
>> >> > >
>> >> > > As a Muslim don't you feel ashamed Alex at what has been created.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're right of course!
>> >> > US built cluster bombs and assorted hi-tech weaponry used by Israel
>> >> > are
>> >> > far more efficient and way more discrete in extermination than the
>> >> > knives and other "weapons" allowed the Palestinians.
>> >> > Israeli quality killings performed far from the "free press", and
>> >> > thereby affording BernardZ the comfort of guiltless eye aversion,
>> >> > are a
>> >> > fine example of Israeli talents at turning the victim into
>> >> > perpetrator,
>> >> > and vice-versa!
>> >> > Bravo!
>> >>
>> >> You must of left the USA because we got over our Jew hatred
>> >
>> > When was that?
>>
>> In the 40's and 50's
>
> Now why on earth would Americans hate the jew in the 40's and 50's and
> not the 80's and 90's:

Now why on earth would anyone in America hate the "Jew" if it were not for a
dumb fucking cunt like Boedica that is living on American soil.... get your
sorry ass back to england... we hate sorry cunts like yourself..

> you dumb fuckin wannabe American...
>
> Says the wannabe jew.

I don't wannabe a Jew ... I am satisfied with myself.. obviously you are not
satisfied with being a Brit, otherwise you would not be polluting my
country. you dumb fucking whore.

Take my advice, get the snip, convert, change
> your name to
> "Judas" and open a liquor store in a black neighbourhood. Then
> you'll be a *real*
> one instead of a wannabe yuo dumb doodoo.
>
> . When the fuck are
>> you gonna head back to Europe and quit fucking our soil up? Don't stop in
>> Britain... Ariadne is a true British woman....
>
> She's not British, she is a jewess, who concerns herself more with
> what goes on
> in Israel than Britain. She's also bonkers.

She is a British woman. She is far more a lady than you. A beautiful British
Princess... you are a ugly wannabe goofy un British tart..... You will
always be like that, you faker...

Snip rest of your crap because you are contaminated and are not worthy of
being British like my Ariadne......

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 6:05 am
From: "DoD"

"Daniel Bernard" <bad@bad.one> wrote in message
news:p6b932h5uvgsmnehia6jd2cjejdmktsuiq@4ax.com...
> On 5 Apr 2006 22:43:29 -0700, "Boedicia@isp.com" <Boedicia@isp.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>DoD wrote:
>>> <Boedicia@isp.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1143869292.870240.104240@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> >
>>> > DoD wrote:
>>> >> "Calife" <user@user.net> wrote in message
>>> >> news:442c03d5$0$18327$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>> >> > BernardZ wrote:
>>> >> > > In article <MsRWf.15204$g6.11008@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
>>> >> > > serwad@bellsouth.net says...
>>> >> > >> Look at Palestine. Horror/chaos destabilizes people and it
>>> >> > >> takes generations to restabilize and build back a civilization.
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Actually this is a true statement. When Israel ruled the region
>>> >> > > it
>>> >> > > was
>>> >> > > claim and one of the fastest growing economy in the world.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Now look at what replaced it.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > As a Muslim don't you feel ashamed Alex at what has been created.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > You're right of course!
>>> >> > US built cluster bombs and assorted hi-tech weaponry used by Israel
>>> >> > are
>>> >> > far more efficient and way more discrete in extermination than the
>>> >> > knives and other "weapons" allowed the Palestinians.
>>> >> > Israeli quality killings performed far from the "free press", and
>>> >> > thereby affording BernardZ the comfort of guiltless eye aversion,
>>> >> > are a
>>> >> > fine example of Israeli talents at turning the victim into
>>> >> > perpetrator,
>>> >> > and vice-versa!
>>> >> > Bravo!
>>> >>
>>> >> You must of left the USA because we got over our Jew hatred
>>> >
>>> > When was that?
>>>
>>> In the 40's and 50's
>>
>> Now why on earth would Americans hate the jew in the 40's and 50's and
>>not the 80's and 90's:)
>>
>>
>> you dumb fuckin wannabe American...
>>
>>Says the wannabe jew. Take my advice, get the snip, convert, change
>>your name to
>> "Judas" and open a liquor store in a black neighbourhood. Then
>>you'll be a *real*
>> one instead of a wannabe yuo dumb doodoo.
>>
>>. When the fuck are
>>> you gonna head back to Europe and quit fucking our soil up? Don't stop
>>> in
>>> Britain... Ariadne is a true British woman....
>>
>> She's not British, she is a jewess, who concerns herself more with
>>what goes on
>> in Israel than Britain. She's also bonkers.
>>
>> you would do better to go to
>>> France or Germany,
>>
>> Why single out those 2 countries? are you anti French
>
> Yes he is, though he thinks Toulouse is situated in north Italy and
> Strasbourg is in central Germany. That shows his knowledge of France.
>
> Absolutely shocking, I tell ya.

Actually that means that you are lying again, and when you want to BE A MAN
and call me out on that little fact .... I got your little testicles
covered.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:19 pm
From: "Israel Blumstein"

Boedicia@isp.com wrote:
> Israel Blumstein wrote:
> > Steffi Green <green1583@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> > > Miriam Cohen wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 05:37:21 GMT, "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <Boedicia@isp.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:1143869292.870240.104240@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DoD wrote:
> > > > > > > "Calife" <user@user.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:442c03d5$0$18327$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> > > > > > > > BernardZ wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article <MsRWf.15204$g6.11008@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
> > > > > > > > > serwad@bellsouth.net says...
> > > > > > > > > > Look at Palestine. Horror/chaos destabilizes people and it
> > > > > > > > > > takes generations to restabilize and build back a
> > > > > > > > > > civilization.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Actually this is a true statement. When Israel ruled the
> > > > > > > > > region it was
> > > > > > > > > claim and one of the fastest growing economy in the world.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now look at what replaced it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As a Muslim don't you feel ashamed Alex at what has been
> > > > > > > > > created.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You're right of course!
> > > > > > > > US built cluster bombs and assorted hi-tech weaponry used by
> > > > > > > > Israel are far more efficient and way more discrete in
> > > > > > > > extermination than the knives and other "weapons" allowed the
> > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > > Israeli quality killings performed far from the "free press",
> > > > > > > > and thereby affording BernardZ the comfort of guiltless eye
> > > > > > > > aversion, are a fine example of Israeli talents at turning
> > > > > > > > the victim into perpetrator, and vice-versa!
> > > > > > > > Bravo!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You must of left the USA because we got over our Jew hatred
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When was that?
> > > > >
> > > > > In the 40's and 50's you dumb fuckin wannabe American.... When the
> > > > > fuck are you gonna head back to Europe and quit fucking our soil
> > > > > up? Don't stop in Britain... Ariadne is a true British woman....
> > > > > you would do better to go to France or Germany, stewpid fucking
> > > > > racist bitch....
> > > >
> > > > Excuuuuuuuuuuse me. Araidne is not a true British woman. She is a
> > > > true semite, i.e. a jew!
> > >
> > > One can be a Jew and British and value being both.
> >
> > Not really, twatty. Jews have failed to assimilate in Britain. Not
> > only do they look different from the natives, but they have this
> > age-old problem of divided loyalties.
>
> A couple of them moved to London from Canada. They managed to get
> jobs in Britains
> nuclear energy programme. They were caught sending information to
> Russia
> during the Cold War. They received long prison sentences. They
> should have been
> hanged. When they finally got out they were deported to Russia, not
> Canada,
> since they stated "We are devoted Communists".

Was that the Ruislip case?
>
> Show me a commie and I'll show you a jew and vice versa.

As they used to say, capitalism is man's exploitation by his fellow
man, communism is the exact opposite. Jews seem to be good at both.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:22 pm
From: "DoD"

> As they used to say, capitalism is man's exploitation by his fellow
> man, communism is the exact opposite. Jews seem to be good at both.

That might be because people like you are dumb....

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:22 pm
From: "Israel Blumstein"

DoDi wrote:
> <Boedicia@isp.com> wrote in message
> news:1144302209.650077.120220@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > DoD wrote:
> >> <Boedicia@isp.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1143869292.870240.104240@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > DoD wrote:
> >> >> "Calife" <user@user.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:442c03d5$0$18327$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> >> >> > BernardZ wrote:
> >> >> > > In article <MsRWf.15204$g6.11008@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
> >> >> > > serwad@bellsouth.net says...
> >> >> > >> Look at Palestine. Horror/chaos destabilizes people and it
> >> >> > >> takes generations to restabilize and build back a civilization.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Actually this is a true statement. When Israel ruled the region it
> >> >> > > was
> >> >> > > claim and one of the fastest growing economy in the world.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Now look at what replaced it.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > As a Muslim don't you feel ashamed Alex at what has been created.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You're right of course!
> >> >> > US built cluster bombs and assorted hi-tech weaponry used by Israel
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > far more efficient and way more discrete in extermination than the
> >> >> > knives and other "weapons" allowed the Palestinians.
> >> >> > Israeli quality killings performed far from the "free press", and
> >> >> > thereby affording BernardZ the comfort of guiltless eye aversion,
> >> >> > are a
> >> >> > fine example of Israeli talents at turning the victim into
> >> >> > perpetrator,
> >> >> > and vice-versa!
> >> >> > Bravo!
> >> >>
> >> >> You must of left the USA because we got over our Jew hatred
> >> >
> >> > When was that?
> >>
> >> In the 40's and 50's
> >
> > Now why on earth would Americans hate the jew in the 40's and 50's and
> > not the 80's and 90's:
>
> Now why on earth would anyone in America hate the "Jew" if it were not for a
> dumb fucking cunt like Boedica that is living on American soil.... get your
> sorry ass back to england... we hate sorry cunts like yourself..
>
> > you dumb fuckin wannabe American...
> >
> > Says the wannabe jew.
>
> I don't wannabe a Jew ... I am satisfied with myself.. obviously you are not
> satisfied with being a Brit, otherwise you would not be polluting my
> country. you dumb fucking whore.
>
> Take my advice, get the snip, convert, change
> > your name to
> > "Judas" and open a liquor store in a black neighbourhood. Then
> > you'll be a *real*
> > one instead of a wannabe yuo dumb doodoo.
> >
> > . When the fuck are
> >> you gonna head back to Europe and quit fucking our soil up? Don't stop in
> >> Britain... Ariadne is a true British woman....
> >
> > She's not British, she is a jewess, who concerns herself more with
> > what goes on
> > in Israel than Britain. She's also bonkers.
>
> She is a British woman. She is far more a lady than you. A beautiful British
> Princess... you are a ugly wannabe goofy un British tart..... You will
> always be like that, you faker...
>
>
> Snip rest of your crap because you are contaminated and are not worthy of
> being British like my Ariadne......

Your Aridane???? LOL

I hate to disillusion you, Dodi, but a jew cunt like Ariadne wouldn't
let a shabbos goy like you anywhere near her jew twat.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Blood on the White House Carpets
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e67cd3ef430aa62
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 6:00 am
From: "F. H."

NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Blood on the White House Carpets

> According to a new book published today, Mrs Bush was unimpressed by Mrs
> Clinton's refurbishment of the White House, calling it 'garish'.

> These days, barely one American in three looks kindly on George W. His wife,
> on the other hand, is the most popular First Lady in recent history -
> America's most admired woman, of whom even the most partisan Democrat is
> pressed to find an unkind word.

Yeah, right.

http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=medswhatmeds4vo.png

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Golpea policía a joven en Santa Clara. Gulag Cuba
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f3f4b6addde5a354
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 10:49 pm
From: "PM"

Roberto Santana Rodríguez.

Bitácora Cubana, 4 de abril de 2006, Santa Clara
El joven de 19 años Elmis Fuentes Rivalta fue golpeado y arrestado por
un agente del orden público en el hospital Arnaldo Milián Castro,
ubicado en la central ciudad de Santa Clara el pasado 29 de marzo,
informó Idania Yánez Contreras, coordinadora del frente femenino Marta
Abreu.

Yánez explicó que el incidente se produjo cuando el joven Elmis fue
sorprendido por el agente policial mientras vendía comestibles durante
su práctica laboral en el mencionado recinto asistencial.

"Los tripulantes del carro patrullero 260 pidieron la identificación
al joven y al este no tener encima el carné, le agredieron y arrestaron
siendo conducido a la tercera unidad de policía", indicó la opositora
pacífica.

Yánez añadió en su reporte que el joven fue introducido a la fuerza en
un calabozo de la comisaría por espacio de dos horas negándosele la
posibilidad de llamar a su señora madre, hasta resultar liberado, no sin
antes serle impuesta una multa de 20 pesos moneda nacional.

Posteriormente; el Dr. Yoan Suárez, Especialista en Maxilofacial
Licencia #94720, le extendió un certificado por lesiones no graves,
excoriaciones alargadas en la región antero lateral del cuello.

La fuente señaló que la progenitora del joven, Rosa María Rivalta,
acudió a la unidad policial para pedir explicaciones limitándose a
responderle el ayudante del jefe de unidad que dejara eso así, que no
iban a procesar nada y que no tenían conocimiento de nada.

Al día siguiente el teniente coronel Eduardo González de la Fiscalía
Militar le denegó a la señora Rivalta la acusación que presentara
aduciendo que no se produjeron lesiones graves, ni lo mataron ni tenía
tratamiento médico.

Además, el oficial le dijo a la mujer que la mayoría de los policías no
poseen educación ni nivel cultural adecuado, ni estaban preparados para
atender a la población, que gran parte son orientales y que estaban
acabando.

Similar respuesta recibió la señora Rivalta de la oficial Nancy, del
Departamento de Atención a la Ciudadanía en la Delegación Provincial

de Villa Clara del Ministerio del Interior, quien le comunicó que no
llevaría acusación porque no había código penal para sancionar a este
policía, que se investigaría y le responderían en el plazo de 60 días lo
que provocó que la mujer reaccionara airadamente gritando, "¿Dónde está
la justicia y los derechos humanos del pueblo? Este es un país fascista
donde todos se tapan con la misma sábana".

http://www.bitacoracubana.com/desdecuba/portada2.php?id=1743

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CubaVerdad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
CALLES DE LA HABANA: (ESTE WEBSITE ES UNA JOYA)

--
WINSTON CHURCHILL DIJO:
El socialismo es la filosofía del fracaso, el credo a la ignorancia,
y la prédica a la envidia.
Su virtud inherente es la distribución igualitaria de la miseria.
El ejemplo mas convincente: La Cuba del 2006

--
CALLES DE LA HABANA: (ESTE WEBSITE ES UNA JOYA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NO HABRA SOLUCION PACIFICA EN VENEZUELA....ESTO YO LO HABIA ADVERTIDO A
LA PERIODISTA DESDE ANTES DE LAS ELECCIONES EN QUE CHAVEZ GANO.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/da4fd1c3408fe607
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 1:56 am
From: "PM"

NO HABRA SOLUCION PACIFICA EN VENEZUELA....ESTO YO LO HABIA ADVERTIDO A LA PERIODISTA DESDE ANTES DE LAS ELECCIONES EN QUE CHAVEZ GANO EL PODER....

Y EL MUNDO... , LOS PAISES DEL CONTINETE,....

LAS DEMOCRACIAS...TOLERARAN ESTE LENGUAJE, ESAS PROYECCIONES DEL REGIMEN Y SUS LACAYOS OPORTUNISTAS DE TODOA LAYA Y ANTI PUEBLO ??? PERMITIRAN QUE UN NUEVO DICTADOR SE INSTALE EN ESE PAIS DEL CONTINENTE ???

Hace un par de dias vimos una entrevista en Globo Vision de Lina Ron, vocera semi oficial del regimen de Hugo Chavez. Ya la conociamos de haberla visto, gracias a la magia de la television por satelite, cuando quemaba una bandera norteamericana en la Avenida Bolivar en Caracas, al frente de una manifestacion chavista. En esta entrevista dijo frases que indican lo que le espera al pueblo venezolano si se niega a aceptar la tirania vitalicia de Chavez. En determinado momento expreso "¿Que es lo que ustedes quieren? ¿Que llenemos de sangre a Venezuela? ¿A donde quieren llegar? ¿A la confrontacion armada?"

Mas tarde declaro: "Nosotros estamos a dispuestos a lo que sea cuando sea" Y repitio en varias ocasiones de que estaba dispuesta a morir por su "Comandante en Jefe", mencionando asi mismo en varias ocasiones la frase acuñada por Fidel Castro de "Patria o Muerte".

Si esto lo dijera cualquier miembro de las turbas chavistas no tendria importancia. Pero lo ha dicho Lina Ron. Anteriromente habiamos visto al propio Chavez decir, en relacion a un movimiento abstencionista en las elecciones de Diciembre: "Si votan, les vamos a ganar y si no votan les vamos a ganar mas facilmente". "La Revolucion Bolivariana no terminara jamas".

Ya lo habia dicho antes. Estara en el poder tanto tiempo como Castro (47 años hasta ahora) o mucho mas. Por lo pronto, para que la oposicon no se haga ideas libertarias, ya tiene tres nuevos helicopteros artillados rusos, mas de 100,000 nuevos rifles automaticos para su tropa de choque, una nueva docena de aviones de combate, etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "We are the TERRORISTS..."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/019537260e534dde
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:13 pm
From: "Fanari22"

"rick murphy" <RichardTRMurphy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143779919.061372.140920@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

"Speak English when you post to non Turkish groups.
Also stop removing my posts and the posts of others non-Turks from the news
groups.
Stop changing your alias all the time.
You are forcing me to change my alias in order to avoid your hacking.
What you do is illegal and brakes all Internet rules.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:14 pm
From: "RichAsianKid"

drydem wrote:
> RichAsianKid wrote:
> > drydem wrote:
> > > richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > drydem wrote:
> > > > > richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > drydem wrote:
> > > > > > > richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > Komin wrote:
> > > > > > > > > richasian
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I disagree with you there , the WASP will always win in the USA .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not if you're the last one left.
> > > > > > > > Demographics is Destiny.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's rather marxist of you.
> > > > > > > Have you decide to become a socialist?
> > > > > > > History tells me
> > > > > > > that number aren't always important.
> > > > > > > History is full of stories of
> > > > > > > a smaller group of people
> > > > > > > controlling a larger group of people.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > anyway as a rich kid
> > > > > > > shouldn't you be advocating ...the golden rule
> > > > > > > He who has the gold makes the rules. :-P
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're trolling here, just like how you replied to my 4 points earlier,
> > > > > > off topic, delving into devilish details etc, so let me reply on April
> > > > > > Fools.
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL. Hit a weak spot? Did I offend you?
> > > > > I did not mean it that way... I just was
> > > > > surprised by your previous statement.
> > > > > Wth a moniker "richasiankid" isn't it reasonable
> > > > > to expect some characterization or
> > > > > poetic/prose that your moniker implies?
> > > > > How could any reply to your original thread be
> > > > > on-topic to the newsgroup? How could a reply
> > > > > addressing the socialistic ramifications to your
> > > > > political manifesto be off topic? Is it not the
> > > > > role of a newsgroup to delve into the devilish
> > > > > details?
> > > > > One might say you are in the hell
> > > > > hole of chat rooms - a sort of twilight zone
> > > > > of intelligensia. :-P
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > No I thought I was just amusing you. Remember that thread a while back?
> > > > You said I was being very funny almost like making a clown out of
> > > > myself! And you have no idea how much I'm chuckling ("mischievously")
> > > > behind typing some of these posts - though some are more serious than
> > > > others. (Still, your questions about why not 55 year old women vs 30
> > > > year old women, and then suddenly talking about the beauty of pi [!!]
> > > > and beagles, is just ridiculous! That's very trollish, no? But like I
> > > > said I respect your sexual preference and I discriminate against no
> > > > one!)
> > >
> > >
> > > RFLOL. How can the beauty of pi and beagles be any
> > > more ridiculous or outlandish or trollish than advocating
> > > immigration to to young fertile latinas? If you do
> > > respect every preference as you claim then surely
> > > nothing can be truely trollish, no? hahahha.
> > > Which would make you a man of the world. :-)
> > > Yes, that would make you *liberal* in matters of the heart :-P
> > > ( now look what you got me doing! I used the dreaded L-word! *gasp* )
> > >
> >
> > But we talked about demographics, socialism etc, and so if # matter, I
> > think more people find young nubile fertile latinas attractive than
> > beagles or pi - the latter two are mere "fetish".
>
> LOL.
> But I am talking about demographics!!! :-)
> ( okay, Not pi. I concede mathematics has never been
> a popular subject in the USA )
> But beagles are the 5th most popular dog in the USA!
> So
> there are alot Americans who have adopted and made
> a "beagle" a part of their family. :-)
> (Labs are the most popular dog breed in the USA.)
> America loves their dogs!
> ( and cats!) (and gerbils!) (and tropical fish!)
> With that same reasoning and argument....
> >From what i've read in the paper,
> the most popular ethnicity in US adoptions
> among american families are *far east asian* (not hispanic)
> baby girls ( in particular korean and chinese).
> but ...there are many
> times of attraction...
> and maybe this isn't the kind of love
> you are thinking about and the type of
> love expressed by adoption was not
> what is on your mind (9_9)
> you are more
> interested in attraction
> at the hormonal level...

I understand of course. I may love my cousin but that doesn't mean I
need to have sex with her! But in that thread I was referring
specifically to attractive latinas esthestically, and obviously the
sexual undertones are there. And then you said you like beagles.

Incidentally it's interesting that adoption agencies have to screen out
pedophiles and other perverts.

>
> so you might want ....
> To compare the number of non-hispanic American males
> that marry hispanic/latino women as a indicator of
> how popular "young nubile fertile latinas" (in the USA) are
> wrt to attractiveness.
>

Any data on this? I haven't checked, but I know that outmarriage rates
of Latina are quite high (some say 30%, I can be very wrong), though
Japanese groups are even higher (some say 50%). Blacks have low
outmarriage rates. And then you'll say, oh, look at socioeconomic
status. I know your comeback there!

> > And don't forget: many Hispanic citizens (those recently naturalized,
> > for example) still retain strong ties with Mexico, or so I read.
>
> The Mexican-American voting block is a minority voting block ( the
> hispanic american voting block also includes many non-Mexican American
> hispanic/Latinos voters).
> and they would require the support of the mainstream america voters to
> alter U.S. immigration policy.
>

In what way? Like a referendum? The use of the words 'nativist' or
'racist' can be a mighty silencer in conservations sometimes....

>
> knowing what to do and say
> at the right time
> at the right place
> to the right people
> in the effort to accomplish
> one's goals.
>
> its one of those often
> overlooked but very valuable
> intangibles of humanity
>

Cunning then can be defined retrospectively and tautologically? And it
is not limitless as it's circumscribed by circumstances.

>
> > > >
> > > > By bloc voting they may wield their power through politics - look at
> > > > PapaPeng's post to this thread
> > >
> > > But immigants (legal or illegal) can't vote
> > > and thus have actual no bloc voting capacity.
> > > Any voting block depends on the
> > > voting citizens - the hispanic community only has
> > > a small number of voters and
> > > is currently a minority voting bloc.
> > >
> >
> > What percentage of Hispanic immigrants go on after 5 years (is that the
> > requirement now) to become naturalized citizens?
>
> Not many especially wrt to mexican immigrants - this is especially true
> for in the lower states: California, Texas, NewMexico, and Arizona.
> This is because many mexicans/hispanics come to the USA as
> guest/migrant workers - maintaing their base of operations from from
> their home country.

In a way this is like charity or third world aid - Mexicans earn
American wages (and yes some of them do probably work hard) but then
send money back home.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PKK Terrorists cannot learn their lesson
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ba7737386830d090
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:15 am
From: "Fanari22"

"rick murphy" <RichardTRMurphy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144296011.578621.159180@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

Speak English when you post to non Turkish groups.
Also stop removing my posts and the posts of others non-Turks from the news
groups.
Stop changing your alias all the time.
You are forcing me to change my alias in order to avoid your hacking.
What you do is illegal and brakes all Internet rules.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: INDONESIA: IS ISLAMIC NUKES ARE READY FOR AUSTRALIA?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a57fd90c18d2c12c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:16 pm
From: "nyknyk"

¶¶¶ Nuclear Figures Don't Add Up ¶¶¶ wrote:
> "Arthur Brain" <arthur_brain1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1144180974.673364.208640@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > KANGAROOISTAN wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> IT WAS THE REPULSE AND THE PRINCE OF WALES
> >
> > er, two WW2 British naval vessels, yes...
> >
> >> THE BIGGEST MOST MODERN WAR SHIPS AFLOAT THAT LASTED TWO HOURS IN
> >> BATTLE
> >
> > er, no they weren't. The Repulse wasn't even a battleship.
> >
> >> AND 130,000 ALLIED SOLDIERS WITH THE BIGGEST LAND BASED GIUNS ON EARTH
> >> THAT LASTED TWO WEEKS BEFORE A SMALL ARMY OF JAPS
> >
> > How many muslims in that army, eh?
> >
> > Not many abos, either, I'll bet....
> >
> > Note the end result of WW2 - a shitload of dead japs and two whole
> > cities-full fried with nukes.
> >
> > I'll really look forward to muslims trying to take my land by force -
> > it's time for a bit of a cull anyway - far too many of the stupid
> > maggots.....
>
>
> I strongly suspect that Australia has its own 'secret stash' of tactical nukes.
>
> We helped the Brits to build theirs, then they were thankful & nice enough to
> 'leave behind' some unused nukes 'buried' in the desert for us to duplicate.
>
> This might also explain why we hang on to the old F111's - perfect for small tactical nukes.
>
> ~
> Two unused atomic bombs were buried in the desert in South Australia,
> the Royal Commission into British atomic testing in Australia was told today.
> ("Daily News" 10/10/84, "The Age", "The West Australian" 11/10/84)

I suspect that we have no nukes, but we have the facility and a i
suspect a doctrine. i suspect that if we needed a nuke, we could have
one ready to go in under a day.
A little nuclear missile kit, just waiting for small assembly...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turkey Go For EU
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7bf46a750c995753
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:17 am
From: "Fanari22"

"faba Turk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:e10t4v$ku5$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> <MarianMarian234@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
Speak English when you post to non Turkish groups.
Also stop removing my posts and the posts of others non-Turks from the news

groups.
Stop changing your alias all the time.
You are forcing me to change my alias in order to avoid your hacking.
What you do is illegal and brakes all Internet rules.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:18 am
From: "Fanari22"

"BBaba Turk" <520001085531-0001@tt-online.de> wrote in message
news:e10t4v$ku5$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>> Another Aborthed Topic
Speak English when you post to non Turkish groups.
Also stop removing my posts and the posts of others non-Turks from the news

groups.
Stop changing your alias all the time.
You are forcing me to change my alias in order to avoid your hacking.
What you do is illegal and brakes all Internet rules.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:20 am
From: "Fanari22"

"Baba Turk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:e10t4v$ku5$01$1@news.t-online.com...
Speak English when you post to non Turkish groups.
Also stop removing my posts and the posts of others non-Turks from the news
groups.
Stop changing your alias all the time.
You are forcing me to change my alias in order to avoid your hacking.
What you do is illegal and brakes all Internet rules.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:21 pm
From: "Fanari23"

"Baba Turk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:e10t4v$ku5$01$1@news.t-online.com...
"Baaba Turk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:e10t4v$ku5$01$1@news.t-online.com...
Speak English when you post to non Turkish groups.
Also stop removing my posts and the posts of others non-Turks from the news

groups.
Stop changing your alias all the time.
You are forcing me to change my alias in order to avoid your hacking.
What you do is illegal and brakes all Internet rules.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gogala Would Never Call Ali Baba Bush A Liar, No Sirree!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51b6de1adf5c9e5b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 6:21 am
From: "Barry Marjanovich"

http://www.bigeye.com/foreignc.htm

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

==============================================================================
TOPIC: El Pan Polémico
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d2fe99e321b33179
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 2:06 am
From: "PM"

POBRE CONFUSOR...

Sr. ud. no sabe que eso de la harina en Cuba es cosa solo del estado
todopoderoso y del senior de vidas y haciendas... o sea del dictador ...que
es quien decide que se compra y cuando y cuanto y en donde...
ahi el pueblo no puede ni hacer su propio pan.... asi que ya sabe
confusor... siga escuchandonos...para que aprenda y sepa ...que es la
realidad en el gulag ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

conio ! despues de 47 anios de ignominias, abusos, crimenes, millones de
exilados y miles de fusilados ...
todavia hay por ahi gentes que no saben ni cojones de que es lo que pasa y
que ha pasado en ese nuevo gulag que es Cuba desde hace varias decadas
ya...exactamente 47 anios compay !
nah ! visite la isla a traves de ...estos enlaces... tal vez asi se de
cuenta ...

CALLES DE LA HABANA: (ESTE WEBSITE ES UNA JOYA)

Calle http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/calle26/index.htm 26
Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/ave26/index.htm 26
Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/ave11/index.htm 11
Avenida
http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/presidentes/index.htm
de los Presidentes
Rancho http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/rancho/index.htm
Boyeros
Monserrate
http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/monserrate/index.htm
Empedrado http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/empedrado/index.htm
Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/puerto/index.htm del
Puerto
Calle Cuba http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/cuba/ind
"Confusor" <confusor@sincorreos.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
49fvchFoesm3U1@individual.net...
> PM wrote:
> > 2006-04-02
> > El Pan Polémico
> >
> >
> >
> > Raras veces en un noticiero televisivo cubano, aparece un reporte donde
> > se enfoca un tema crítico que afecte al cubano de a pie. Y cuando lo
>
>
> > Mientras, la población continúa con sus quejas. Lo mismo en las mismas
> > bodegas que en las asambleas cederistas de las cuadras. Y dicho por los
> > mismos afectados, a veces lo que hacen es cojer el pan para alimentar a
> > los animales avícolas o porcinos que tienen en sus patios. Otros ni se
> > toman el trabajo de hacer las colas cuando el susodicho llega a los
> > centros de expendios, y los que compran el más caro, rápidamente lo
> > tuestan para que no se les eche a perder.
> >
> > Podemos añadir que ese pan de cualquier precio, mal confeccionado y con
> > sabores desconocidos pero muy lejos del que debiera tener, a veces es el
> > primordial sustituto del almuerzo o la comida en muchos hogares de la
> > Isla, para mitigar o engañar al estómago, cuando éste reclama que le
> > caiga algo en su interior.
> >
> > http://www.miscelaneasdecuba.net/web/article.asp?artID=5084
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 1º. En lugar de adquirir pan se adquiere el cereal como trigo,
> centeno o cebada.
> Poner a disposición utensilios como cedazos y molinillos para moler
> cereales y legumbres.
> La gente tendría que moler el trigo, cerner la harina y elaborar el
> pan y cocerlo en el horno como se hacía antes.
>
>
>
> 2º. Introducir una moneda independiente del gobierno de turno.
> Esta moneda ha de ser de plata, lo más pura que sea, actualmente,
> 999 por 1.000.
> Desde el exterior se fabrican monedas de 5, 8, 10, 20, 40 gramos de
> plata pura, sin aleación de otros metales.
> La moneda basta que lleve grabado el guarismo de su peso, 5g Ag, 8g
> Ag, 10g Ag, ....
> Supongamos que el valor de una moneda de 5 gramos sea de 2.50
> dólares, cada turista que se dirige a Cuba podría gastar unos 100
> dolares en monedas de plata, unos 50 gramos de plata en monedas, e
> introducirlos en el mercado libre (negro). Esta moneda circulante por
> ser legítima pero no legal (hay diferencia entre legítimo i legal) sería
> la que se impondría sobre la legal del gobierno y a pesar del gobierno.
>
>
>
> 3º Para la moneda fraccionaria (cobre) serviría la propia de Cuba, o
> las monedas de cobre del euro, o cualquier otra.
>
>
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LEPANTO Por Hugo J. Byrne
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/147a0ee3a7acd4fe
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 11:09 pm
From: "PM"

LEPANTO
Por Hugo J. Byrne

Dos enemigos irreconciliables se enfrentaron hace cuatro siglos en una de
las batallas mÃ¡s importantes de la historia moderna. Muchos historiadores
sostienen que los resultados de ese encuentro hicieron posible la
supervivencia de las caracterÃsticas mÃ¡s positivas de nuestra
civilizaciÃ³n occidental. En realidad puedo asegurar al amable lector que
no sÃ³lo nuestra civilizaciÃ³n, sino nuestra existencia fÃsica de hoy son
los resultados directos de la victoria de occidente en ese conflicto.
Nos referimos por supuesto a Lepanto. Y nÃ³ al popular â?obrandyâ?
espaÃ±ol, sino al golfo del Mar MediterrÃ¡neo, del que toma su nombre. Los
dos enemigos implacables que describimos en el pÃ¡rrafo inicial, eran las
fuerzas navales de la Europa Cristiana, encabezada por Venecia y la
formidable armada IslÃ¡mica de TurquÃa.

Si nos aventuramos en las sendas del pasado, encontraremos que cuatrocientos
aÃ±os antes de Sadam Hussein, IrÃ¡n, Al Quaeda, el TalibÃ¡n, Hamas, el Yihad
IslÃ¡mico y todas las mÃºltiples piÃ±as terroristas musulmanas que hoy
combatimos, existÃan los turcos otomanos, quienes fueron capaces de alzar
las banderas del IslÃ¡m conquistador, fanÃ¡tico y opresivo tan alto, que
casi abruman a los que llamaban â?oinfielesâ?.

Descendientes de obscuras tribus nomÃ¡dicas de las estepas del
Asia, los otomanos, abrazando fanÃ¡ticamente la fe musulmana, empezaron a
extender una agresiva influencia militar y polÃtica en el este del
MediterrÃ¡neo desde el siglo XIII, a travÃ©s de sus victoriosas campaÃ±as
contra los mongoles y los bizantinos. El momento histÃ³rico culminante del
Imperio Otomano arribÃ³ con su triunfo final sobre Bizancio, la toma de
Constantinopla (hoy Estambul), ocurrida en 1453.

La potencia econÃ³mica y guerrera cristiana mÃ¡s importante en esa parte del
mundo (en esencia la Ãºnica parte importante de ese tiempo), era Venecia.
Los venecianos aprendieron pronto, tal como los norteamericanos a fines del
siglo XIX, que la libertad comercial requiere un formidable poderÃo naval
que la respalde. Eterna rival de GÃ©nova en el otro lado de la bota
italiana, Venecia desarrollÃ³ una armada capaz de proteger sus rutas
comerciales. Extraordinarios exploradores como Marco Polo y aguerridos
marinos como Sebastiano Vennier, avanzaron los intereses del LeÃ³n de San
Marcos y afirmaron sus fueros en el MediterrÃ¡neo.

En 1499 todo ese poderÃo se vio de repente desafiado por la amenaza de dos
enemigos mortales. Venecia, construÃda en el mar para enfrentar mejor a
sus enemigos de tierra firme, pactaba entonces con Francia una posible
alianza contra MilÃ¡n, quien la amenazaba desde el oeste. Como si esto
fuera poco, en el mismo aÃ±o el embajador del â?oDuceâ? de Venecia en
Constantinopla oyÃ³ del Gran Visir (Primer Ministro) Turco, que aunque el
â?oDuceâ? veneciano se â?ocasaba con el marâ? en anual ceremonia
simbÃ³lica , el verdadero novio del MediterrÃ¡neo era ya realmente el
SultÃ¡n otomano.

Los primeros encuentros entre venecianos y turcos ocurrieron desde 1463. En
1470 los turcos capturaron la isla de Negroponte en el Mar Egeo y en 1479 la
de Scutari, en el AdriÃ¡tico. La paulatina retirada veneciana durÃ³ por
mÃ¡s de un siglo hasta que las galeras turcas asediaron a Chipre y
demandaron su entrega al Imperio Otomano en 1570. El Emperador Otomano
Selim II, conocido como â?oSelÃm el borrachoâ?, por su aficiÃ³n al vino
(que la fe musulmana no atenuaba), exigiÃ³ su rendiciÃ³n incondicional.

Rechazado el ultimÃ¡tum turco por Venecia, los otomanos sitiaron Famagusta
por mÃ¡s de diez meses y finalmente tomaron ese puerto fortificado, junto al
resto de la isla mediterrÃ¡nea. Al jefe veneciano capturado, Marc Antonio
Bragadin, le cortaron la nariz y las orejas y, tras muchas otras torturas y
humillaciones, lo desollaron vivo. Chipre se convirtiÃ³ en un escenario de
abuso, violaciÃ³n y matanza poco usual aÃºn para aquellos tiempos. MÃ¡s de
20,000 fueron masacrados â?oen nombre de la feâ?. Las mujeres viejas
fueron decapitadas junto a los hombres y las mÃ¡s jÃ³venes embarcadas a
TurquÃa para placer sexual de la soldadesca, con las mÃ¡s agraciadas entre
ellas, seleccionadas para el harÃ©m de â?oSelÃm el borrachoâ?.

Para ese entonces el peligro turco habÃa forzado un pacto frÃ¡gil entre el
Papado, Venecia, GÃ©nova y EspaÃ±a. Este â?omatrimonio de escopetaâ?, se
conoce en la historia como â?oLa Santa Liga de Veneciaâ?. QuizÃ¡s la
aparente aunque frÃ¡gil solidaridad por parte del actual gobierno de Italia
con Estados Unidos en su difÃcil guerra contra el terrorismo musulmÃ¡n,
tenga una sutil raÃz histÃ³rica en esta coaliciÃ³n del siglo XVI que
precediÃ³ a Lepanto. Al respecto, las valientes pasadas declaraciones del
Primer Ministro italiano Silvio Berlusconi, no dejan lugar a dudas.

Esa alianza militar de 1570 unÃa en propÃ³sitos defensivos inmediatos los
antagonismos mÃ¡s enconados y los intereses mÃ¡s divergentes. SÃ³lo el
objetivo comÃºn de sobrevivir la mortal amenaza turca mantuvo esa alianza
intacta. Tres aÃ±os depuÃ©s de la decisiva victoria de Lepanto, la Santa
Liga se desmoronÃ³.

El siete de octubre de 1571 las dos armadas se enfrentaron cerca de las
costas griegas. La superioridad en tamaÃ±o de las galeras cristianas y la
punterÃa de los arcabuceros de las mismas, demostraron ser capaces de
abrumar a las mÃ¡s rÃ¡pidas y maniobrables galeras turcas, las que
dependÃan mayormente en la flecha y la cimitarra. Sin embargo, lo que
ganÃ³ el dÃa para la flota cristiana no fue tanto el poderÃo naval, como
la habilidad en su uso.

Los jefes cristianos como Alvaro de BazÃ¡n, Barbarigo, Colonna, Sebastiano
Vennier y Andrea Doria, probaron ser mÃ¡s agresivos y eficientes que sus
contrapartidas turcos Ali PachÃ¡, Mehmed Suluk y Uluch Ali. Pero sobre todo
la determinaciÃ³n y capacidad en liderazgo de su jefe supremo, Don Juan de
Austria, permitiÃ³ a los marinos de La Santa Liga arrinconar a los otomanos
en el Golfo de Lepanto y casi aniquilarlos. Este jefe supremo de la flota
cristiana en Lepanto de sÃ³lo 24 aÃ±os de edad, era hijo ilegÃtimo del
alemÃ¡n Carlos V (Carlos I, para EspaÃ±a) con una campesina alemana.
Nacido en el centro de Europa y criado en EspaÃ±a, el genial Don Juan era un
soldado nato y el reverso de la medalla de su medio hermano, el gris,
mediocre y mÃstico Felipe II. Don Juan estaba a cargo de una coaliciÃ³n
mucho mÃ¡s heterogÃ©nea y antagÃ³nica que la que comandara el General
Eisenhower en la Segunda Guerra Mundial. Designado como caudillo cristiano
por el Papa, el joven alemÃ¡n carecÃa del respaldo incondicional del
liderazgo de una potencia industrial formidable como fuera el caso del jefe
supremo aliado en 1944. Antes de Lepanto la armada cristiana estuvo a punto
de caÃ±onearse a sÃ misma en mÃ¡s de una ocasiÃ³n, a consecuencia de las
insanas rivalidades histÃ³ricas entre los genoveses y espaÃ±oles de una
parte y los venecianos por la otra.

Las deficiencias materiales fueron contrarrestadas con genio militar, tacto
diplomÃ¡tico y determinaciÃ³n a toda prueba. Don Juan reconocÃa el
desafÃo de muerte que para la civilizaciÃ³n occidental representaba el
ciego fantismo islÃ¡mico.

El peligro terrorista de hoy es muchÃsimo mÃ¡s serio que en ese entonces y
mucho mÃ¡s de lo que la inmensa mayorÃa sospecha. Â¿EstarÃ¡n nuestros
caudillos polÃticos y militares a la altura de las circunstancias? La vida
fÃ¡cil, Â¿ nos habrÃ¡ corrompido tanto que como vÃ¡stagos de nuestra
civilizaciÃ³n, ni siquiera reconocemos nuestros deberes hacia nosotros
mismos? Â¿Seremos capaces de obtener, como en Lepanto, una victoria final
sobre la barbarie fanÃ¡tica o serÃ¡ nuestro destino el de los esclavos?

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