soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Islam less popular than Bush - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6e38846bf8da0d33
* Muslim women desperate to leave Islam - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b64e6bd64dd34fe2
* Loyalty test for Muslims in Germany - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/21df391cc53689ea
* Independence of Chechnya in the Long Run - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fecb303268ff2ba9
* US Govt Spending Hits All-Time High in March - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8bb36986967230b0
* Manipulated news articles from "Baba Turk" aka "umu", the terrorist
supporter - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5be3152b906bc6c0
* Germans Fed Up with Hearing About HOLOHOAX!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/14a8ae221de5f7fb
* I mean are you jews absolutely silly? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cf7e7f35cb24a7b9
* British MP Calls for Sanctions Against Israel - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/37724ea584282821
* Mexicans flock to US border as hopes rise over work permits - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/63c2d2b57ff38375
* BOYCOTT COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Add to this list - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/905a98f75a37edde
* FLUSHED - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/168923a383917185
* Shiites ask: Why convene Iraq parliament? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/40cad8f490939fc8
* Tired old men who won't fight; the US Senate - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/85804982a94f7c1d
* But why did he keep his silence? Re: Colin Powell now says "I never believed
" Iraq/Niger nuke connection - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/61965ff766e143ce
* The Day the Mufti Came to Town - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6765cc0b154c7691
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Islam less popular than Bush
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6e38846bf8da0d33
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 11:31 pm
From: hi@anony (habshi)
excerpt google news 'Islam'
Kitty »
April 13, 2006
Poll Shows US Perception of Islam Lower than Bush
Hey now that takes some doing! But just above Scientology? So I reckon
Tom Cruise is a bit nutty but I really thought he might rate as less
nutty than say terrorists.
(CBSNEWS) : Although Americans believe they are better informed about
Islam than they were five years ago, a new CBS News poll finds fewer
than one in five say their impression of the religion is favorable.
Forty-five percent of respondents queried April 6 - 9 said they have
an unfavorable view of Islam, a rise from 36 percent in February. And
the publics impression of Islam has diminished even more compared
with four years ago. In February 2002 less than six months after the
terrorist attacks of September 11 the country was evenly divided in
its impression of Islam.
When compared with some other religions practiced in America, positive
views of Islam rank below those for mainstream Protestantism,
Catholicism, Judaism, and Christian fundamentalist faiths. Only
Scientology, of all the religions asked about, ranked lower.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Muslim women desperate to leave Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b64e6bd64dd34fe2
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 11:30 pm
From: hi@anony (habshi)
Only the submissive ones want to stay in a faith which says
they are inferior and to be whipped if they dare speak up Quran 4.34
excerpt
Following the decision, the Federal Court will now hear and decide
which court - Syariah or civil - will have jurisdiction to decide on
the religion of a Muslim who renounces Islam as his or her religion
and seek to rectify the status on his or her identity card with the
NRD.
Lina Joy, 42, is appealing against the Court of Appeal decision which
upheld the High Court's ruling on April 18, 2001, that being a Muslim,
she could not renounce Islam, and that the issue should be decided by
the Syariah court.
Lina, whose birth name was Azlina Jelani, had filed a suit against the
Federal Territory of Kuala Lumpur Islamic Religious Council, the
director-general of the NRD, and the government after her application
to remove the word "Islam" from her identity card was turned down by
the NRD.
She is also seeking a declaration that she is free to practise the
religion of her choice as enshrined in the Federal Constitution.
Ahmad Fairuz said the granting of the application for leave to appeal
was based on the following factors:
whether the NRD is entitled in law to impose a requirement for
deleting the entry of "Islam" in the applicant's identity card, that
she produce a certificate or a declaration or an order from the
Syariah court that she has apostatised.
whether the NRD has correctly construed its powers under the National
Registration Regulations to impose the registration as stated above
when it is not expressly provided for in the registration.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Loyalty test for Muslims in Germany
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/21df391cc53689ea
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 11:30 pm
From: hi@anony (habshi)
It has thirty questions , inluding do you approve of polygamy
, homosexuality , wife beating etc.
Muslims have to get all thirty right and if they declare
falsely and later are found to be aspousing polygamy for example ,
they will have their citizenship revoked .
It will be interesting to hear what the Ummah has to say about
it .
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Independence of Chechnya in the Long Run
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fecb303268ff2ba9
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 2:06 am
From: Andrzej Adam Filip
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth.net> writes:
> mtodorov_69@yahoo.com wrote:
>> What can be observed is that (ironically speaking) Chechen people
>> may not be quite too happy to live under the rule of Russians, who
>> have done them so much good this far.
You seem to be a master of irony :-)
> At this point the Chechens need to take the time to rebuild
> their population to recover from the casualties most recently
> inflicted by the Russians. They should make sure that the new
> generation is well taught the history of their people since
> their conquest and the occupation and the colonization of
> their country by the Russians. In the future they should be
> prepared to take their struggle to the Russians home lands,
> rather than having the destruction be done to their land.
> I repeat Russians Home Lands, i.e. Muscovy , rather than
> their immediate neighbors who are also occupied by the
> Russians.
Would you be so kind to provide us version for Iraq of your wonderful
speech? [ Iraqis vs. USA & UK ]
USA occupation of Iraq makes pressing Russia over human rights in
Chechnya grossly ineffective. It also diffuses chances of any greater
"Islam against Russia" coalition.
It will change sometime but not soon.
P.S.
USA were ready to fight Vietnam War to the last Vietnamese.
--
[pl2en Andre ] Andrzej Adam Filip : anfi@priv.onet.pl : anfi@xl.wp.pl
Keep your lies consistent.
-- The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition #60
==============================================================================
TOPIC: US Govt Spending Hits All-Time High in March
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8bb36986967230b0
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:11 pm
From: Mike V.
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:29:25 -0600, John Starrett <jstarret@sdc.org>
posted :
>Mike V. wrote:
>> NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
>>
>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>>US Govt Spending Hits All-Time High in March
>>
>>
>>
>> But, but, but, the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility!!
>>
>>
>> How ever did this happen?
>
>Democrats, Clinton and bureaucracy.
How did you get to be so stupid?
The size of the federal gov. has grown more under Bush than any other
president.
He was also handed a budget surplus which he squandered on tax cuts
for the rich and an illegal war.
Seriously, how do you even function in the world?
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:15 pm
From: Mike V.
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:11:31 -0700, Mike V. <michaelav@SPAMcox.net>
posted :
>On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:29:25 -0600, John Starrett <jstarret@sdc.org>
>posted :
>
>>Mike V. wrote:
>>> NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
>>>
>>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>>US Govt Spending Hits All-Time High in March
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, but, but, the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility!!
>>>
>>>
>>> How ever did this happen?
>>
>>Democrats, Clinton and bureaucracy.
>
>
>How did you get to be so stupid?
>
>The size of the federal gov. has grown more under Bush than any other
>president.
>He was also handed a budget surplus which he squandered on tax cuts
>for the rich and an illegal war.
>
>Seriously, how do you even function in the world?
>
OK, I see some of your other posts.
Didn't recognize your name. You were shooting for sarcasm.
Sorry.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 12:27 am
From: Croaker
And lo, on Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:15:48 -0700, it was written that Mike
V. <michaelav@SPAMcox.net> spake unto the masses thusly:
>On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:11:31 -0700, Mike V. <michaelav@SPAMcox.net>
>posted :
>>How did you get to be so stupid?
>>
>>The size of the federal gov. has grown more under Bush than any other
>>president.
>>He was also handed a budget surplus which he squandered on tax cuts
>>for the rich and an illegal war.
>>
>>Seriously, how do you even function in the world?
>>
>
>OK, I see some of your other posts.
>Didn't recognize your name. You were shooting for sarcasm.
>Sorry.
"Have you always been able to multi-task like this?"
- Number Six; Battlestar Galactica
(Teasing, I'm teasing!! ;) I'm on the Left, standing right by your
side. <grin> )
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Manipulated news articles from "Baba Turk" aka "umu", the terrorist
supporter
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5be3152b906bc6c0
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 3:16 am
From: "gogu"
? "BabaTurk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de> ?????? ??? ??????
news:e1kfb1$eqe$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> The terrorist supporter "Ali Asker" wrote again much BS, for example
>
>> According to well respected Turkish kemalist (fascist) newspaper
>> Cunhuriyet
>
> Hey guy, you are spreading false information!
> Kemalism does NOT mean fascism. Read here what Kemalism means:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalist_Ideology (English, brief)
> http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk_Ilkeleri (Turkish, more detailed)
>
> And the newspaper is Cumhuriyet, not Cunhuriyet. See here:
> http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/
>
>
> Question: why do you crosspost your propaganda crap into 10+ more
> newsgroups???
Because this is *FREE*FREE*FREE* and he can post whatever he wants!
Try to learn it and become civilized!
Now what about apologizing for mass-spamming the Greek ng with more that 917
spam messages last week?...
<rest of the usual Turkish propaganda BS of this guy snipped>
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 3:20 am
From: "gogu"
? "Constantinus" <inmaster@gmx.at> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1144928211.118451.121530@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Intergrate yourself in country where you are living , donot fight
> against your turk , Arab , iranian brothers.
Interesting...
Now pray tell, why the Turks around Europe and especially in Germany are
among the less integrated people in the respective societies?...
Or are you saying that minorities in Turkey *should* be
assimilated/integrated but Turks in European countries should not?...
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:50 pm
From: "gogu"
gogu wrote:
> ? "BabaTurk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de> ?????? ??? ??????
> news:e1kfb1$eqe$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> > The terrorist supporter "Ali Asker" wrote again much BS, for example
> >
> >> According to well respected Turkish kemalist (fascist) newspaper
> >> Cunhuriyet
> >
> > Hey guy, you are spreading false information!
> > Kemalism does NOT mean fascism. Read here what Kemalism means:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalist_Ideology (English, brief)
> > http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk_Ilkeleri (Turkish, more detailed)
> >
> > And the newspaper is Cumhuriyet, not Cunhuriyet. See here:
> > http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/
> >
> >
> > Question: why do you crosspost your propaganda crap into 10+ more
> > newsgroups???
>
>
> Because this is *FREE*FREE*FREE* and he can post whatever he wants!
> Try to learn it and become civilized!
So when you send all your vexatious and frivolous "Abuse" complaints to
ISP's and international police forces, are the posters you are
snitching on *FREE*FREE*FREE* (sic) as well, you uncivilised plaintif
hypocrite rrrromaneshti yeeftos cunt ?
PWNT !
http://snipurl.com/mwah
http://snipurl.com/dilp
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more:
http://pig.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://www.seanie.eu
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:08 pm
From: "BabaTurk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de>
"gogu" wrote
> "Constantinus" wrote
> > Intergrate yourself in country where you are living , donot fight
> > against your turk , Arab , iranian brothers.
>
> Interesting...
> Now pray tell, why the Turks around Europe and especially in Germany are
> among the less integrated people in the respective societies?...
It only seems so. They are mostly good integrated, though it could
be some more. Religion, cultural background, and education plays
a role too. Most of the immigrants are usually from poor regions with less education.
The same was with for example the Italian immigrants to the US many
decades ago. New immigrants are unfortunately always the
underdogs everywhere. All have to start at the bottom due to
language barriers and lack of higher education. IMO it is not only
their own fault, but to a certain degree also the fault of the society
they have come to.
> Or are you saying that minorities in Turkey *should* be
> assimilated/integrated but Turks in European countries should not?...
Of course everybody must follow the rules and laws of the country
where he/she is living. Yes, immigrants and minorites must do more
for their integration, learn the language of the country, learn the
history and traditions of the country etc. But it of course does
not mean to convert religion etc.; this of course is not asked by anybody.
In short: yes, immigrants and minorities must work hard to be
accepted in the society. The best way is to make use of the
language courses and education possibilities offered, especially
for their children, but of course also for the parents.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Germans Fed Up with Hearing About HOLOHOAX!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/14a8ae221de5f7fb
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 12:28 am
From: "princeandy"
"george" <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote in message
news:1144874220.762789.150880@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Okay.
> They should still be concentrating upon the evils done by their
> countrymen to their fellowmen in the Holocaust....
>
Well I would think so. there is no more nazi threat.
But as this guy claims the zionists still run both the jews and israel and
influence American policy to the extent of shutting down comment.
http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973
HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET
The Real Issue Is Israel's Human Rights Record:
The Israel Lobby John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I mean are you jews absolutely silly?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cf7e7f35cb24a7b9
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 12:30 am
From: "princeandy"
"Emanuel Appel" <irgun43@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:VCy%f.4127$sq5.489@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Well, your mom was silly for having you. Should we hang her?
What a stupid question. No congratulate the zionists on a great job done.
>
>
>
> "princeandy" <andy@homw.com> wrote in message
> news:GRx%f.5838$vy1.1430@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> >
> > The while concept is as silly as every protestant suddenly deciding that
> > all
> > protestants came from England, or all Lutherans came from Germany so
> > should
> > move back there as they all can quite rightly claim that that is where
the
> > religion originated same for catholics, prebys and so on oncluding I
> > suppose
> > muslims who come from the same place that jews claim to come from.
> > And would only be even accepted as a religious belief, the actions of
the
> > zionists during WWII to their fellow jews, and from WWII to the present,
> > there is no way you can reconcile it with the very religious beliefs
that
> > the jews are resting their claim on.
> >
> > And if there is no adherence to the religious in other matters you
cannot
> > claim land on the pretext that you believe that you should have the land
> > because your God and religion says so, while ignoring every other
> > requirement that one would expect if you were w religious person who
> > believed in that religion.
> >
> > Otherwise you are just a greedy person using religion and the name of
God
> > falsely to enrich yourself, or your whole irreligious group.
> >
> > "jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
> > news:1144944346.916035.70980@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > princeandy wrote:
> >> "Daniel Bernard" <fifthhorseman@the.apocalypse> wrote in message
> >> news:0p6s32t83c5otl14vb5105o26fkupepd60@4ax.com...
> >> > 'Best wishes, and kisses to everyone'
> >> >
> >> > A museum in Amsterdam has obtained previously unseen letters written
> >> > by Anne Frank. Here we publish a selection. Some are from before the
> >> > war; others were written while she was in hiding from the Nazis
> >> >
> >> > Thursday April 13, 2006
> >> >
> >> snip ----------------------
> >> >
> >> > In 1944, Anne Frank and her family, and the four others who had been
> >> > hiding out above her father's office, were betrayed to the Nazis.
Nine
> >> > months later, in March 1945, Anne died of typhus at Bergen-Belsen,
> >> > aged 15.<
> >
> > The Franks first left Germany to get into Belgium, and a few years
> > later the Nazis caught
> > up with them and many other GErman Jews who fled to nearby countries.
> >
> >> Even more tragic is the fact that Anne and millions of other jews
would
> >> probably still be alive today except for their zionist leaders.<
> >
> > How so? Most Jews in the world weren't zionists and had they been, they
> > would have
> > listened to Jabotinsky who as early as the 1920s warned Jews that evil
> > was coming
> > As explained in the documents here zionists manipulsted jews, that is if
> > you
> > can read and take of the rose colored glasses.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Leaving a country where you family has lived for 600 or more years
> > isn't simple. Especially
> > when in Palestine Arab terrorists were already harassing and killing
> > Jewish immigrants!
> > And the British were beginning to make it difficult to come to
> > Palestine to try to placate
> > the Arab extremists as well! And life in Palestine was tough and
> > primitive even compared
> > to many Polish shtetls!
> >
> >> Without Jewish co operation through the zionists the Germans would
never
> >> have had the resources to herd the Jews into the various camps. <
> >
> > Sure. Germany, the third richest country in the world in 1939 wouldn't
> > have the resources
> > to round up and kill a few million Jews! That's like saying the US
> > hasn't the resources
> > to round up a few million illegal immigrants. If there is the will, the
> > resources will be found!
> >
> > Next about rounding up jews, we are not talking about today when you are
> > labdelled and ticketed in every western democracy and communist or
> > excommunist country.
> >
> > The zionists , possibly like yourself became obsessed to the point of
> > becoming uncaring about the fate of jews that were not going and did not
> > want to go to Palestine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > And if you can read the clearest case is the Kastner where there was a
> > survivor who quite clearly describes the actions and thoughts of the SS
> > and
> > zionists and how they collaborated.
> >
> > And if you know your history of the period, which seems to be something
> > most
> > jews are lacking. There were jews that were quite happy to remain German
> > or
> > whatever and were forced by the circumstances brought about by the
> > zionists
> > by declaring war on the Germans.
> >
> > The japanese in america did not declare war against anyone but were
> > imprisoned as a security measure.
> >
> > and that they should emigrate to Palestine. There were some JEws, like
> > my mother,
> > who intended "some day" to go to Palestine but for many reasons ended
> > up staying.
> >
> > Yeah well the problem you have is apparently you cannot read or you are
a
> > zionist and have convinced yourself of the good intentions. For any
group
> > to
> > claim to belong to a worldwide group and loudly proclaim their loyalty
to
> > the worldwide group rather than their country of residence is as plain
as
> > any declaration that you are going to undermine your country of
residence
> > and shold be observed as a security risk.
> >
> > Your leaders the zionists were actively collaborating with the nazis for
> > freasons of race and quite willing to practice a form of age and
> > disability
> > discrimination.
> > They wnated fit young people in Palestine and the old, infirm and
> > handicapped the Germans could do with as they wished..
> >
> >
> >>And the
> >> zionists made it impossible for the underground to trust the jews.<
> >
> > Which underground? The Polish underground? Many were traditionally
> > antisemitic and
> > did little to help the Jews of the Warsaw uprising, and found
> > themselves being slaughtered
> > a few years later when there was the general Polish uprising in
> > Warsaw.
> >
> > Yeash well you better talk to your mother again, and painful as itis you
> > might brimg back the actuality of the time.
> >
> > The jews were forced onto cattle trucks and various cruel and unusual
> > methods of transport along with their families convinced that they were
> > going to camps that if not holiday camps, were very good and special for
> > the
> > clever jews. and there was no reason for them not to believe that. they
> > were
> > aknowledged as the cream of the populations, amongst themselves at the
> > least.
> >
> >
> >> Like elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the ear of
> >> the
> >> frightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this case the
Judenrat
> >> comprised mainly the Zionist Federation members. <
> >
> > The Jewish councils were made up by whomever the Germans chose. I
> > don't know
> > where "zionists" come into the picture at all!
> >
> > Read the books described in the post unless you cannot read. The
zionists
> > had recorded meetings, and decided that they were not in the business of
> > helping jews in europe to either resist or cause problems for the nazis
in
> > rounding them up.
> >
> > So they co operated with the nazis and simply by doing that requiring
only
> > perfect young specimens within a certain age and health group they
> > obviously
> > co operated in a discriminatory program against all they left to the
> > tender
> > mercies of the Germans. Which of course had to be children, old people
and
> > any ill and handicapped persons.
> > And your zionist friends and leaders would have been very familiar with
> > the
> > whole scene including mengeles and any other obscenities that were going
> > on
> > , as they were so close and had such empathy with the nazis.
> >
> >>Without their help the SS,
> >> with 19 officers and less than 90 men, plus a few hundred Hungarian
> > police,
> >> could not have collected and controlled a million Jews, when they did
not
> >> even know their whereabouts. Kastner and the others were left under no
> >> illusions. Eichmann told Joel Brand, one of the members of Kastner's
> >> committee, that he intended to send all Hungary's Jews to Auschwitz,
> > before
> >> he even started the expulsions! He told them clearly that all these
Jews
> >> will die, 12,000 a day, unless certain conditions were met.<
> >
> > Go fuck yourself with your lying bullshit! But there is no problem
> > controlling millions of people
> > if you are prepared to use incredibly cruelty. For example, if the
> > children of illegal immigrants
> > were kidnapped out of schools by the National Guard and put in camps
> > where their parents wouldn't know where they are, and the illegal
> > immigrants were told they would never see
> > their children again unless they came to this or that location, you'd
> > be amazed how easy
> > it would be a few hundred brutal, SS-like types could control millions.
> > Millions of muscular black slaves were controlled by a few plantation
> > owners. It's incredibly easy to control
> > literally millions of people if you are prepared to do the most horrid
> > of crimes to dehumanize and control them.
> >
> > Muscular black slaves who were easily recognised in an European
> > population,
> > who had no idea of the geography of the country yhey had landed in.
> > No idea of the laws or the type of people they had landed amonget
because
> > as
> > with the Palestinians that the zionists want/ed the black slaves were
all
> > young and planted in a completely unfamiliar place.
> >
> > Your elders which unfortunately were if not zionists, completely led and
> > influenced by zionists. And read their notes and documents again. Those
> > elders were being told that the best thing was to just list them up and
> > send
> > them up whereever the Germans wanted them, even to death row.
> >
> > And might I point out that you are probably reflecting their attitude
when
> > you say there was no way they could hide or get away. They gave up on
> > advice
> > from leaders who also wrote the books you are reading.
> > And take a good hard long look in the mirror, what you are saying is if
> > the
> > same situation existed today, you would give up, not resist and wait for
> > your name to be called to go and die, become a lab rat, allow your
nearest
> > and dearest to become lab rats, or sex toys as the nazis wished because
it
> > was damn hard work getting away.
> >
> > Rather reminds me of a navy joke. I fyou are going to drown inevitably
in
> > the cld northern sea, with our modern ships you can do it in comfort by
> > filling a warm bath and drowing in comfort. And from what you are
saying,
> > in
> > that type of situation you would not be able to get near the bath
because
> > of
> > the queue of jewish sailors.
> >
> > They apparently had decided the same and so grabbed what comfort they
> > could
> > from co operating, and this is reflected even in the conservative
version
> > of
> > events, jews werte talked into lining and not resisting.
> > Which i might point out the POW's who did not know the language or the
> > country still resisted with varying success. As did foreign non jewish
> > prisoners.
> >
> >
> >> http://www.geocities.com/chabaan_2000/safad.HTM
> >> Is The same authors also describe co-operation between Zionist leaders
> >> and
> >> Eichmann. It is interesting to note that the extreme right-wing
> > revisionists
> >> only chose wealthy Jews for emigration, whereas other Zionists insisted
> >> on
> >> taking only young and healthy Jews. Eichmann helped them to carry out
> > these
> >> plans, in return for which the Zionist Organization paid large sums to
> >> the
> >> Nazis. As Kimche says about the Zionist delegates in Germany: They had
> >> not
> >> come to Germany to save Jews. That was not their job. When the Nazis
> >> began
> >> the systematic murder of Jews in 1941, the Zionists decided neither to
> >> support Jewish resistance in Europe, nor to attack the Nazis, nor to
say
> >> anything about the mass liquidation of their fellow Jews. Their sole
> > purpose
> >> was to save certain selected Jews as future settlers in Palestine. They
> > were
> >> not interested in Jews who wished to stay in their home countries and
> > fight
> >> the Nazis.<
> >
> > All of these lies are refuted in the 1997 book "The Myth of Rescue" by
> > William Rubinstein.
> > Good reading only for those who are serious about learning the truth.
> >
> > The myth of rescue? What myth, their were undergrounds all over Europe,
> > and
> > with the underground there was the constant danger of death and torture.
> > And they were put in the same camps as you were. But you then as now you
> > did not understand your position. And if the zionists were friendly with
> > the
> > nazis then favors were exchanged and undergrounds soon noticed
association
> > with jews brought on problems you did not have if you did not associate
> > with
> > jews.
> > What I am saying is if you were in that same situation now because of
your
> > uncritical belief in your leaders against any outside input, you would
be
> > a
> > deadly danger passing on information that could cause men to be killed
and
> > torytured.
> >
> > So till you can read and understand what you are reading you are a
> > hopeless
> > indoctrinated zionist.
> >
> >
> >> >>>>>51 Documents also sheds a whole new light on the term Holocaust
> >> >>>>>guilt, frequently understood to mean Western, non-Jewish guilt for
> >> >>>>>not acting against the Holocaust earlier. However, these documents
> >> >>>>>make it clear that Holocaust guilt began with those Zionists who
> >> >>>>>made
> >> >>>>>the undoubtedly difficult, but politically expedient choice to
place
> >> >>>>>Eretz-Israel at the top of their priorities, above the lives of
> >> >>>>>their
> >> >>>>>threatened European brethren.
> >>
> >> >>>>>From a Zionist Executive Meeting speech by Yitzhak Gruenbaum on
Feb.
> >> >>>>>18, 1943:
> >>
> >> >>>>>And when some asked me: Can't you give money from Keren Ha Yesod
> >> >>>>>(Palestine Foundation Fund) to save Jews in the Diaspora? I said:
> >> >>>>>?No! And again I say no....And, because of these things, people
> >> >>>>>called me an anti-Semite, and concluded that I'm guilty, for the
> >> >>>>>fact
> >> >>>>>that we don't give ourselves completely to rescue actions.(p. 211)
> >>
> >> >>>>>However difficult it may be, the reader must confront some rather
> >> >>>>>disturbing conclusions. The most unsettling realization for this
> >> >>>>>reviewer is that pre-Holocaust Zionists were able to politically
> > align
> >> >>>>>themselves with the Nazis because both groups fundamentally saw
race
> >> >>>>>as an important dividing line?and, moreover, were determined to
keep
> >> >>>>>it that way.
> >>
> >> >>>>>Another disturbing conclusion a reader must inevitably face is
that
> >> >>>>>Zionists learned both tactical and political lessons from the
Nazis
> >> >>>>>and that, even today, these lessons are applied to further the
> > Zionist
> >> >>>>>cause. Although most likely known to potential readers of this
book,
> >> >>>>>another disturbing element is the cover-up of the less than savory
> >> >>>>>roles of current Israeli leaders, including former prime
ministers,
> > in
> >> >>>>>the terrorist Irgun and Stern Gang just before, during, and after
> >> >>>>>the
> >> >>>>>Holocaust. Likewise, the succumbing of various U.S. officials to
> >> >>>>>Zionist pressure is a familiar, but distressing, story.
> >>
> >> >>>>>51 Documents seems to represent a renewed attempt by Brenner to
> >> >>>>>bring
> >> >>>>>information regarding Zionist collaboration with the Nazis to U.S.
> >> >>>>>supporters of Israel, as well as to Jews and Muslims, in order to
> >> >>>>>expand dialogue with knowledge, and save lives 'both Palestinian
and
> >> >>>>>Israeli' in the process. Readers of 51 Documents will find it
> > difficult
> >> >>>>>not to remove the rose colored glasses that so many seem to wear
> >> >>>>>when
> >> >>>>>examining Zionism.
> >>
> >>
> >> >>>>># 5 The Kastner Case
> >>
> >> >>>>>Extracted from a pamphlet issued by BAZO-PS - 1981
> >>
> >> >>>>>Introduction
> >>
> >> >>>>>The most notorious case of Nazi-Zionist collaboration is
> >> >>>>>that involving Rudolf Kastner.
> >>
> >> >>>>>Most Jewish people have never heard of Rudolf Kastner.
> >> >>>>>Those who have, are generally under the impression that
> >> >>>>>there is some "controversy" about negotiations he undertook
> >> >>>>>for "the purchase of Jewish lives for money and military
> >> >>>>>equipment," but that he was "fully rehabilitated" by the
> >> >>>>>Supreme Court of Israel.
> >>
> >> >>>>>The Accusations
> >>
> >> >>>>>Briefly, the accusations against Kastner are as follows:
> >>
> >> >>>>>Dr. Rudolf Verba, a Doctor of Science now serving at the
> >> >>>>>British Medical Research Council, was one of the few
> >> >>>>>escapees from Auschwitz. In his memoirs published in
> >> >>>>>February, 1961, in the London Daily Herald, he wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>>I am a Jew. In spite of that - indeed because of that -
> >> >>>>>I accuse certain Jewish leaders of one of the most ghastly
> >> >>>>>deeds of the war.
> >>
> >> >>>>>This small group of quislings knew what was happening to
> >> >>>>>their brethren in Hitler's gas chambers and bought their
> >> >>>>>own lives with the price of silence.
> >>
> >> >>>>>Among them was Dr. Kastner, leader of the council which spoke
> >> >>>>>for all Jews in Hungary.
> >> >>>>>While I was prisoner number 44070 at Auschwitz - the number is
> >> >>>>>still on my arm - I compiled careful statistics of the
> >> >>>>>exterminations...I took these terrible statistics with me
> >> >>>>>when I escaped in 1944 and I was able to give Hungarian
> >> >>>>>Zionist leaders three weeks notice that Eichmann planned
> >> >>>>>to send a million of their Jews to his gas chambers...
> >> >>>>>Kastner went to Eichmann and told him, "I know of your plans;
> >> >>>>>spare some Jews of my choice and I shall keep quiet."
> >>
> >> >>>>>Eichmann not only agreed, but dressed Kastner up in S.S.
> >> >>>>>uniform and took him to Belsen to trace some of his friends.
> >>
> >> >>>>>Nor did the sordid bargaining end there.
> >>
> >> >>>>>Kastner paid Eichmann several thousand dollars. With this
> >> >>>>>little fortune, Eichmann was able to buy his way to freedom
> >> >>>>>when Germany collapsed, to set himself up in the Argentine...
> >> >>>>>(Ben Hecht, Perfidy, pp 261-2)
> >>
> >> >>>>>These accusations are confirmed by the "Eichmann Confessions"
> >> >>>>>published in Life magazine, 28 November and 5 December 1960:
> >>
> >> >>>>>"I resolved to show how well a job could be done when the
> >> >>>>>commander stands 100% behind it. By shipping the Jews off
> >> >>>>>in a lightning operation, I wanted to set an example for
> >> >>>>>future campaigns elsewhere...In obedience to Himmler's
> >> >>>>>directive I now concentrated on negotiations with the Jewish
> >> >>>>>political officials in Budapest...Among them, Dr. Rudolph Kastner,
> >> >>>>>authorized representative of the Zionist Movement.
> >>
> >> >>>>>This Dr. Kastner was a young man about my age, an ice-cold
> >> >>>>>lawyer and a fanatical Zionist. He agreed to help keep the
> >> >>>>>Jews from resisting deportation - and even keep order in the
> >> >>>>>collection camps - if I could close my eyes and let a few
> >> >>>>>hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate illegally to
> >> >>>>>Palestine. It was a good bargain. For keeping order in the
> >> >>>>>camps, the price...was not too high for me.
> >>
> >> >>>>>"...We trusted each other perfectly. When he was with me,
> >> >>>>>Kastner smoked cigarets as though he were in a coffeehouse.
> >> >>>>>While we talked he would smoke one aromatic cigaret after
> >> >>>>>another, taking them from a silver case and lighting them
> >> >>>>>with a silver lighter. With his great polish and reserve
> >> >>>>>he would have made an ideal Gestapo officer himself.
> >>
> >> >>>>>"Dr. Kastner's main concern was to make it possible for
> >> >>>>>a select group of Hungarian Jews to emigrate to Palestune...
> >>
> >> >>>>>"As a matter of fact, there was a very strong similarity
> >> >>>>>between our attitudes in the S.S. and the viewpoint of these
> >> >>>>>immensely idealistic Zionist leaders....I believe that Kastner
> >> >>>>>would have sacrificed a thousand or a hundred thousand of his
> >> >>>>>blood to achieve his political goal...
> >> >>>>>'You can have the others', he would say, 'but let me have
> >> >>>>>this group here'. And because Kastner rendered us a great
> >> >>>>>service by helping keep the deportation camps peaceful, I
> >> >>>>>would let his groups escape. After all, I was not
> >> >>>>>concerned with small groups of a thousand or so Jews...
> >> >>>>>That was the 'gentleman's agreement' I had with Kastner."
> >> >>>>>(Hecht, Ibid., pp.260-61)
> >>
> >> >>>>>Quite clearly these accusations, whether true or false,
> >> >>>>>do not relate merely to "the purchase of Jewish lives for
> >> >>>>>money and military equipment."
> >>
> >> >>>>>Are the accusations against Kastner true?
> >> >>>>>According to the Government of Israel, they are a lie.
> >> >>>>>When Malchiel Greenwald, a strongly pro-Zionist Israeli
> >> >>>>>citizen published these accusations against Kastner, the
> >> >>>>>Israeli Government did rather more than demand that his
> >> >>>>>views should not be broadcast. Because a prominent Zionist
> >> >>>>>official Dr. Kastner was a spokesman for the Ministry of
> >> >>>>>Trade and Industry) was involved, the Attorney General
> >> >>>>>of the State of Israel prosecuted Greenwald for criminal libel.
> >> >>>>>-88-
> >>
>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >> >>>>>Posted by Robert E. Nordlander
> >>
> >> >
> >> > · Anne Frank; Her Life in Letters opened yesterday at the Amsterdam
> >> > Historical Museum and runs until September 6. www.ahm.nl
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: British MP Calls for Sanctions Against Israel
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/37724ea584282821
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 1:34 am
From: Stephen Glynn <7won-t15h@dea.spamcon.org>
hummingbird wrote:
> On 13 Apr 2006 11:55:41 -0700 "Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com>
> appeared and wrote:
>
>> I agree wholeheartedly, Jack.
>
> The circumstances surrounding this deliberate murder of a 22yo
> British peace worker must confirm what many people already think:
> the IDF and Israeli Govt are little more than terrorist organisations
> sanctioned by the United States and lackies like Britain and don't
> see themselves as being accountable to anybody...
>
> The findings of the court should bring shame to Blair and Straw and
> a realisation by the British people that the Blair's Govt doesn't give
> a damn fcuk about the very people it has a duty to protect.
>
> Notably, Michael Mansfield QC pointed out in his press briefing after
> the court hearing that the British Govt has totally failed in its duty
> to invoke the Geneva Convention to bring the IDF murderers to account,
> after the Israeli Gov persistently stonewalled attempts to investigate
> the incident. Mr Blair has never condemned the murder or demanded
> an apology from the Israeli Govt, but could lawfully have submitted an
> extradiction warrant to Israel for the murderers to be brought to the
> UK to be charged under the GC. Instead he has done/said nothing.
>
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, 'St' Michael ought to
realise an extradition request is a non-starter. The only thing we
could ask to extradite the men for would be war crimes (we don't claim
jurisdiction for murders committed abroad by anyone other than British
citizens). The Israeli government would doubtless reply that their
courts have already tried the matter and concluded that it was, indeed,
unlawful killing, as the coroner's jury said, in the form of
manslaughter committed by Sgt Hayb, who's current serving 8 years for
it, so the matter is dealt with. They'd also doubtless say, as they've
frequently done before, that, in any case, those particular parts of the
Geneva Conventions don't apply in the West Bank and Occupied Territories
because what's going on there isn't a war as understood by the Conventions.
In any event, if any of the men named were rash enough to visit the UK,
I really don't see how a British court could try the case, since it
really isn't a proper forum to investigate the events leading to Mr
Hurndall's death. Both the prosecution and the defendants -- who are
entitled to be regarded as innocent unless the jury is sure that they're
not -- would doubtless wish to call numerous witnesses from the IDF
who'd be unwilling to appear, and couldn't be compelled, and would wish
to have discovery of various documents that the Israeli government
wouldn't want to hand over. How could a court give the men a fair trial?
Steve
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mexicans flock to US border as hopes rise over work permits
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/63c2d2b57ff38375
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:37 pm
From: johnwesley55@lycos.com
Don Gabacho wrote:
> Unsaid is the motivation to swell the ranks of future "protests" thanks
> to the success of the negotiations of Mexican and Central American
> Consulates for obtaining the police 'permits' so far (btw, the massive
> traffic blockages by jamming parked cars most anywhere in last Monday's
> so-called protest permited was no accident):
>
> Mexicans flock to US border as hopes rise over work permits
> OLGA RODRIGUEZ IN SASABE, MEXICO
>
> UNDOCUMENTED migrants are rushing to Mexico's border with Arizona,
> encouraged by the prospect of a guest-worker programme in the United
> States and anticipating a toughening of border security that would make
> a dangerous journey even more perilous.
>
> Detentions by the US border patrol in south-central Arizona, the
> busiest migrant-smuggling area, are up by more than 26 per cent since 1
> October - 105,803, compared with 78,024 for the same period last year.
> Along the entire US- Mexico border, arrests have risen by 9 per cent.
>
> Many migrants say they are being encouraged by relatives in the US, who
> are betting on the approval of a bill in Congress that would legalise
> some of the 11 million undocumented migrants in America.
>
> Francisco Ramirez, 30, recently passed through Sasabe, a one-road town
> on the Arizona border that is a magnet for crossers, with dreams of
> heading to Minnesota, where two of his brothers milk cows on a ranch.
> "My brothers said there is plenty of work there and that it looks like
> they will start giving [work] permits," he said.
>
> Maria Valencia, a spokeswoman for US Customs and Border Protection,
> said more detentions do not necessarily mean there are more people
> crossing. She said an increased number of border patrol agents has
> meant a greater proportion are getting picked up. "We've sent more
> technology and agents there, and I think that's had an impact," she
> said.
>
> But Francisco Loureiro, who has managed a migrant shelter for 24 years
> in the nearby town of Nogales, said many more migrants are heading
> north. In March, an average of 2,000 stayed at the shelter - 500 more
> than in March 2005.
>
> Mr Loureiro said he saw a similar spike in illegal migration in 1986,
> when the US approved legislation allowing 2.6 million undocumented
> migrants to get US citizenship.
>
> "Every time there is talk of legalising migrants, people get their
> hopes up," he said.
Our stinking yellow-bellied President still fails to use troops on the
border. I hope the bastard dies of the dribbling shits.
John
==============================================================================
TOPIC: BOYCOTT COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Add to this list
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/905a98f75a37edde
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 8:20 pm
From: Scotius
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:30:05 GMT, "Tx Max King" <txmxking@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>I am ready to boycott corporations that support illegal immigration amnesty.
That's easy then. All you have to do is fine out who was at
the party where Bush called the attendees his "base", and then find
out which companies they own/run. That shouldn't be too difficult.
Plus, add Fox "news".
>If you know of any corporations or large companies that are openly
>supporting illegal immigration amnesty by their actions, please list them in
>this thread.
>Let's get the word out and let these lawbreakers that are profitting from
>you with their illegal actions, know that we as citizens and consumers mean
>BUSINESS.
>I personally do not want to spend my hard earned dollar on corporations that
>are cheating at the expense of hard working, tax paying Americans.
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: FLUSHED
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/168923a383917185
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:50 pm
From: "Jim E"
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:54 pm
From: "Jim E"
"Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e1miam$2j5n$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
>
> "Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
> news:4a7ge9Fqtvu7U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:mbv%f.99$Jk3.59@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
>>> news:4a6be6Frno30U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Ya salama" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:1144898544.859229.107730@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> DoD wrote:
>>>>>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:sUi%f.80$MM6.49@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>> > > Our preachers and rabbis that are nuts are fewer in numbers. Also
>>>>>> > > it is
>>>>>> >> these relgious nutbars that are intertwined in government. That is
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> way it is in Islam. That is why Islam is so dangerous.
>>>>>> > Aha, and who do you think Dov Zakheim is if he is not a Rabbi, who
>>>>>> > misdirected billions to Israel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know who he is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Google the thief up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and wjhat about Bush is he Christian
>>>>>> > Ayatollah or not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>> There is no diff between between Bush and Mullahs, except that Bush
>>>>> tells more lies than Mullahs do!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bush was elected by the people.
>>> BUSH WAS NEVER ELECTED, HE WAS APPOINTED
>>>
>>
>> Bush was elected by the people.
>
> Not the first time. He was appointed by the judiciary.
>
>
No, if you bothered to check the facts, you would find that The USSC stopped
an attempt by the dims to recount Florida on a cherry pick of counties.
The court said count them all or go home.
Much after the fact every major big news agency in the country did recounts
of the Florida vote.
Every one of these independent recounts found GW to be the winner.
Not bad considering all these news agencies were rooting for Algore.
Jim E
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shiites ask: Why convene Iraq parliament?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/40cad8f490939fc8
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:52 pm
From: "JHM"
On the other hand, why NOT convene Iraqi Parliament?
No obvious reason either way, _quae cum ita sint_.
Heap big NO MATTER either way! Idiot GOP nephews and nieces fresh out
of law school and AEI/Heritage/Cato decide about IT NO MATTER long ago.
Now only to accept predictable _sequellae_ of previous indecision!
"Ideas have consequences"!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tired old men who won't fight; the US Senate
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/85804982a94f7c1d
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:55 pm
From: Bama Brian
Hank wrote:
> They gray haired, sallow faced, old piles of blubber are getting ready
> to give our American heritage and culture to a bunch of third-world
> illegal invaders. They say that wisdom comes with age, but the down
> side is that the disease of aging is cowardice.
I heard Rush Limbaugh suggest that the REAL reason for trying to quickly
make the twelve million illegals into legals is because the Demos think
that the new residents would vote for the Demos - giving the Demos a
clear majority both in state and local elections.
Rush went a bit further and suggested that the way to kill this attempt
is to ensure that no former illegal gets to vote, unless and until
he/she has become a full citizen.
Might be something to it.
BTW, I say that ONLY citizens vote. I might even go a step further and
suggest that ONLY those who have served honorably as citizen/soldiers be
allowed to vote, as Heinlein suggested in "Starship Troopers".
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
==============================================================================
TOPIC: But why did he keep his silence? Re: Colin Powell now says "I never
believed" Iraq/Niger nuke connection
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/61965ff766e143ce
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 5:58 pm
From: acoustic@panix.com (lo yeeOn)
In article <1144941667.691266.228790@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<jmdrake_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Voice Of Reason wrote:
>> Some of this is not really news, as it was clear as far back as 2002
>> that Powell was not anxious to go to War with Iraq, and tried to slow
>> down the rush to it, if not stop it outright.
>
>What goes back to 2002 is the "classified" part of the intelligence
>estimate. The part where Powell says "I never believed (the Niger
>claim) and I didn't need Joe Wilson's statement to know it was
>bogus" is new. Also if he (Powell) had said this back in 2002
>that WOULD have stopped the war outright. It would have given
>the (spineless) dems the political cover they needed to REALLY
>fight. Also the Powell was one of the FEW people in the Bush
>administration that really had any respect in the international
>community. (Hence Powell was sent to the U.N.)
>
>> This is why the
>> neoconservatives didn't like him then, and don't like him now. This
>> is also why he was essentially escorted to the exits a few days after
>> Bush was reelected.
>
>He should have resigned long before then.
>
>> What IS new is that Colin Powell has admitted that "mistakes were
>> made" immediately after the War was won, echoing Condi Rice's recent
>> claim (but disputed by Donald Rumsfeld).
>
>Condi Rice is a joke. She admits "tactical mistakes" (duh!) but claims
>the "strategic" decisions were right.
Rice ``admitted mistakes'' only when it was expedient for her to do
so. And she ``admitted'' only so much, just enough mistakes and no
more. Furthermore, she was actually shifting the blame when she said
``we'' made lots of tactical errors, ``thousands of them, I'm sure''.
She meant Rumsfeld and the Pentagon when she said ``we''. She was
very generous when she assigned a number to the ``tactical errors''
she had in mind others to take responsibility for. And she also
wanted to pull the punch on her ``admission'' by telling the press
that she only meant it figuratively the day after.
The truth is she has admitted nothing.
She just wanted to save her own skin when the pitch of criticism of
the Iraq War grew to be too high. She was quite ready to sacrifice
Rumsfeld on behalf of the war effort, even though he, she, Cheney, and
Bush were all in the same pot of stew together from the get-go. You
have to wonder how much a team player she really is when things don't
quite go right.
lo yeeOn
========
>In other words she lays all of the blame for the Iraq morass on the
>people implementing the stupid policy out in the field while showing
>no remorse for the strategic decisions made in Washington.
>
>Regards,
>
>John M. Drake
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Day the Mufti Came to Town
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6765cc0b154c7691
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:00 pm
From: "Jim E"
"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:EAy%f.828$4O2.454@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>
> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
> news:zmw%f.197$5J6.109@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
>> "Death to America" can be heard loud and clear throughout the streets of
>> Tehran. It can also be frequently heard out of the mouth of one Ikrima
>> Sa'
>> id Sabri, the Grand Mufti of the Al-Aqsa Mosque located in Jerusalem.
>> Recently, Sabri had the opportunity to visit the land that he hates so
>> much.
>> But why would he want to, and why would we let him?
>
> WHO IS "WE" YOU CROATIAN USTASHA!
>
Fromthe serb swamp dweller who ran from his homeland like the communist
coward he is.
Jim E
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