Freetalk about USA culture: 23 new messages in 20 topics

The culture of the United States of America.

03/19/06 / 03/20/06 / 03/21/06 / 03/22/06 / 03/23/06 / 03/24/06 / 03/25/06 / 03/26/06 / 03/27/06 / 03/28/06 / 03/29/06 / 03/30/06 / 03/31/06 / 04/01/06 /

Saturday, April 01, 2006

23 new messages in 20 topics - digest ==>Read...

soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Illegal aliens threaten U.S. medical system and Anchor Baby Goldmine - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3c9e0387d2d42d9f
* 911 SYNTHETIC TERROR - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/306a01ba47dee861
* Bill Cosby To New Orleanz Blacks: It's Clean-Up Time - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/19098aed96f82b79
* Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
* Pakistan, Saudi Arabia in secret nuke pact - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/45dc30161b341339
* The end is near....for US occupation of Iraq? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/57f2252d27097fb3
* 7 MINUTE DAYDREAM OF DUBYA! - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5af6a6b713937b62
* CHILD MOLESTER CHRISTIAN PRIEST'S VICTIMS PAID OFF BY CHURCH - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fc52b610ea1162c8
* Allah will not be pleased - Afg court drops case against Xtian - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d99b23e352376324
* CHRISTIAN PRIEST HELD ON $200,000 BAIL FOR RAPING WOMAN - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c69133da430633df
* ARMS MERCHANT6S OF DEATH... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/280941053b7a35ef
* It's Hard Out Here For Some Blacks To Understand OSCARZ Award For Pimp Song -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3d457b28e7c423a1
* The true ID of Alistair (was Re: Rick Murphy aka Mark Rivers) - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66bb27818a57910b
* IAEA Chief Tells US to Lower the Pitch on Iran - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9aecb36a0055ed0a
* CHRISTIAN PRIEST WHO MOLESTED TEEN GIRL TO TAKE OVER CHURCH - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e8bc7c67ebb2930
* "We are the TERRORISTS..." - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/19537260e534dde
* MORE BULLSHIT BY ELIE WIESEL-THE LIAR! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/992da07741be86cf
* SEX CRIME COUNTS AGAINST 10 CHRISTIAN PRIESTS IN ONE TOWN ALONE - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5a62fc036260cb35
* Stalin vs. Jews - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/33b65b8e64582886
* Jews Celebrate the Murder of Jesus - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c7575ce359400ed7

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal aliens threaten U.S. medical system and Anchor Baby Goldmine
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3c9e0387d2d42d9f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 4:37 am
From: "Lets Roll"

"£***Gnostic Archon" <xamazzz@no.mo.bush.net> wrote in message
news:e0n9ch$9rmq$1@news3.infoave.net...
>
> "Just Cocky" <just@cocky.com> wrote in message
> news:k4ot22h7t2fe18fluarnqu6scgrkfa9a5f@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:25:56 -0600, Just another American
>> <abc@def.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Illegal aliens threaten U.S. medical system
>>>
>>
>> It's not the illegal aliens, it's the silly laws that force hospitals
>> to take care of indigents. These laws should be abolished.
>
> No, it's the simpleton Republicans who hire illegals and have no insurance
> for them who dump them on the public.

You're a genuine idiot. You might be dangerous if you had a brain.

http://www.buyblue.org/company/ranking/donations
BuyBlue.org was started based on a diary written at DailyKos.com in the wake
of the 2004 Presidential election. We were born out of the desire to do
something to positively impact our society.

In the month following the 2004 elections, a group of strangers who had
never met in person discussed the idea behind BuyBlue.org via email and
online forums. We got organized, started planning for the future, formed a
non-profit corporation, and put up our first web site at the beginning of
December 2004.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/22511/6832
The kind of power that makes the Republicans quake in their boots? What is
it the Republicans always say when Democrats propose legislation in Congress
in order to curb corporate malfeasance? We could create a well publicized
website that lists the most and least progressive corporations in America
whom we can reward and punish depending on their support for our ideals. How
much money do we unknowingly spend each day supporting big polluters, big
Republican donors or companies that use slave labor? Much more than we
think. Let's make it more transparent.

Data base of employers busted for hiring wetbacks.
http://www.cis.org/sanctions/

The following businesses are listed on buyblue.org as democrat supported and
supportive businesses.
The following businesses are also listed in the employer sanctions database
as felony offenders for hiring wetbacks.

Levis Strauss
Benihana
Men's Wearhouse
Bally Total Fitness
Black and Decker
Polo Ralph Lauren
Recreational Equipment
Sonic Corporation
Starwood Lodging
Genesco
Starbucks
Blimpie Corporation
Apple Computer
Bed, Bath & Beyond
Progressive Corporation
Hyatt Corporation
Barnes & Noble

And the list goes on, and on, and on.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 911 SYNTHETIC TERROR
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/306a01ba47dee861
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 11:38 pm
From: "serwad"

April Saturday 1st 2006 (12h47) :
911 Synthetic Terror
This book provides an urgent answer to the failure of the US intelligence
agencies, the Congressional Joint Inquiry, and the Kean-Hamilton 9-11
Commission to discover the basic facts in the September 2001 terror attacks.
The author starts from the official myth of 9-11 - nineteen Arab hijackers,
al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, the laptop in the cave in Afghanistan - and shows
how this myth was fabricated during the ten days after 9-11 by media leaks
from George Tenet and Richard Clarke, remarks by Colin Powell, and Bush's
September 20 address to Congress. In the meantime, each of these figures has
been repeatedly caught blatantly lying about Iraq and other subjects, and it
is high time their lies about 9-11 be exposed.

After a reality check to establish that no proof for the official account of
9-11 has ever been forthcoming, the author develops a theory of
international terrorism based on the experience of the Kennedy
assassination, the Red Brigades, the Baader-Meinhof group, and other recent
cases. International terrorism - including 9-11 - is overwhelmingly the
product of intelligence agencies, he argues, pointing out the roles of
patsies and fall-guys, of networks of moles inside the government and the
media, of anonymous professionals who actually carry out the atrocities the
public sees, and of secret command cells in privatized paramilitary
settings.

Using this framework, Tarpley proceeds to analyze a score of points at which
the official account of 9-11 is absurd, contradictory, highly suspicious, or
just physically impossible. Answering objections, the author shows that such
vital ideas in American history as the Declaration of Independence, Lincoln's
House Divided Speech, and the 1860 Republican Party platform would be
classified as conspiracy theories by the self-appointed neocon guardians of
orthodoxy today.

Tarpley outlines the long history of terrorism as a tool to manipulate
public opinion in favor of war and dictatorship, from Guy Fawkes to the
Maine to Operation Northwoods. Through his famous spot resolutions which
rejected the Polk administration's official account of the outbreak of the
Mexican War, the figure of Abraham Lincoln emerges to exemplify the
classical American demand for truth and rejection of government
manipulation.

The book concludes with a survey of the November 2004 presidential election
in the U.S. and the geopolitical struggle between U.S. expansionist neo-cons
and the Russian federation; it is the first book to place 9/11 within an
ongoing Cold War context. Release: April 28, 2005

Webster Griffin Tarpley is an activist and historian best known for his
George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (1992), which has become an
underground classic on the internet at www.tarpley.net.

An expert on international terrorism with decades of experience, he directed
the study Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro? (Who Killed Aldo Moro?), which was
commissioned by a member of the Italian government and published in Rome in
1978. He also co-authored American Leviathan: Administrative Fascism Under
the Bush Regime (1991), which identified many tendencies which have become
prominent today, and Surviving the Cataclysm (1999), an analysis of the
world financial crisis.

Against Oligarchy, a collection of his essays and speeches, appeared on the
internet in 1996. He has appeared on CNN Crossfire, Charlie Rose, talk
radio, and cable access television across North America.

By : Henri
April Saturday 1st 2006

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M1TE&.#EA" `(`( ``.3DY ```"'Y! $`````+ `````(``@```('A(^IR^U=
#```[
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end

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bill Cosby To New Orleanz Blacks: It's Clean-Up Time
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/19098aed96f82b79
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 11:38 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>

"Ladies and gentlemen, you had the highest murder rate, unto each
other. You were dealing drugs to each other. You were impregnating
our 13-, 12-, 11-year-old children," he said.

"What kind of a village is that?"

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-04-02T021614Z_01_B728330_RTRUKOC_0_US-HURRICANES-PROTEST.xml

By Russell McCulley

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Entertainer Bill Cosby urged New Orleans'
black population on Saturday to cleanse itself of a culture of crime
as it rebuilds from the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina last
year.

Cosby, whose criticism of some aspects of modern African-American
culture has stirred controversy in recent years, told a rally headed
by black leaders that the city needed to look at the "wound" it had
before Katrina struck.

"It's painful, but we can't cleanse ourselves unless we look at the
wound," Cosby told the rally of about 2,000 people in front of the
city's convention center.

"Ladies and gentlemen, you had the highest murder rate, unto each
other. You were dealing drugs to each other. You were impregnating
our 13-, 12-, 11-year-old children," he said.

"What kind of a village is that?"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal Hispanic Immigration & rally in LA
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/965a78900803abba
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:39 pm
From: richasiankid@hotmail.com

Google's fault. Just caught this here:

drydem wrote:
> richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > drydem wrote:
> > > RichAsianKid wrote:
> > > > drydem wrote:
> > > > > richasiankid@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > Very interesting from CNN on the LA situation
> > > > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration.rallies.ap/index.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I have a preference. I'd like to tweak the outcome if I were a
> > > > > > politican. I have a very reasonable suggestion: restrict entry to only
> > > > > > under 30 year old women. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Why 30? why not 55 or 5 or 38 or 22?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1. Numerically it's a rounded number
> > >
> > > Why not a prime number like 29?
> > > Or a fraction like 29-1/2 or a decimal 27.5?
> > > What's so great about being a *rounded* number?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Rounded numbers probably resonate more with readers and audience,
> > broadening their appeal.
>
> but 20 is an even number too why 30 over 20?
>

I did revise this 'age requirement' to 20 subsequently in my post.
(Didn't you read it?) You're trying to say that I'm biased, like I'm an
ageist or whatever, is that what you're implying? I'm not. I just don't
find 50 year old women attractive at all.

>
> >
> > > > 2. Esthetically they are most attractive
> > >
> > > wrt to numbers
> > > some find Pi very alluring...
> > > numerical love is often irrational. :-)
> > >
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > Esthetically
> > > I'm attracted to beagles...
> > >
> >
> > I like you already (errr, actually, not that much). You're a very open
> > guy. Bestiality - i.e. pansexualism - is not that hip yet. I mentioned
> > this in another thread earlier.
>
> LOL.
> "Esthetically" not "Sexually"
> In your effort to be clever, your comprehension skill takes a nose
> dive.
> My point is that not all
> not all attraction is sexual in nature.
>
> Money is the one of the most powerful attraction factors
> in the federal government.

Really??? Now that's real cool!!

>
> fyi:
> Microsoft,et al is pushing an new immigration bill
> to increase the number of H1-B visa workers --
> this bill has pass already passed the Senate and
> has Bush's blessing. If this bill is passed it should
> result in boasting the south asian indian community
> population size in the USA.
>

South Asian indians with their dark skins are probably smarter than
Africans, skin color adjusted. Skin color is superficial; ancestry is
real. What are the ramifications now????

>
> >
> > > > 3. Biologically they are most fertile
> > >
> > > What do you mean by "most fertility?" %|
> > > Are you saying there are degrees of fertility?
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.fertilitylifelines.com/assets/images/chart_maternalage.gif
>
>
> The chart at the url you posted above suggest that
> female fertility incrementally declines from the age of 16.
> By the time a women is at the age you deemed
> "most fertile" (30 years) old her chance of conceiving
> is about 66% less. Your initial assertion does not
> appear to be in line with the facts you provided.
>

I don't think that 30 year old women ('point estimate') are most
fertile. Under 30 year old women are in aggregate more fertile than
over 30 year old women, if you dichotomize the variables.

> >
> > > > 4. Politically it's most feasible
> > >
> > > Not in the real world.
> >
> > It can at least convince some less sexually repressed middle-aged
> > bible-thumping Middle American Republicans of the benefits of *illegal*
> > immigration....
>
> It's more likely you would insult rather than tempt bible-thumping
> republicans with such a proposition.

Sue and countersue. Once you cede, you lose. That's the game of life,
don't you think? Ruthless yes. But true.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia in secret nuke pact
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/45dc30161b341339
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:41 pm
From: verifyingchristian@yahoo.com

Sad to say that Islamists believe an ancient FALSE prophecy that before
the coming of the Judgment Day of Allah, Israel will be eliminated in
large scale killing, and nuclear weapon will do the job easily.
Thus it explains why the Iran is really keen to build nuclear bombs to
fulfilL this FALSE prophecy.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 9:07 pm
From: "ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com"

verifyingchristian@yahoo.com wrote:
> Sad to say that Islamists believe an ancient FALSE prophecy that before
> the coming of the Judgment Day of Allah, Israel will be eliminated in
> large scale killing, and nuclear weapon will do the job easily.
> Thus it explains why the Iran is really keen to build nuclear bombs to
> fulfilL this FALSE prophecy.

Christianists believe in an ancient FALSE prophecy that there will be a
judgement day, that non-Christians will be wiped out, etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The end is near....for US occupation of Iraq?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/57f2252d27097fb3
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 12:43 pm
From: "Bad boy"

You have an over-inflated regards for the
Americans....thinking that they are civil gentlemen
in coat and tie.
Yes...people like Reagan and Clinton are indeed
cultured guys (notwithstanding his sex escapade
in the Oval Office).

Bush is more like the back street underworld
gangsters, dressed in tuxedo.... but far from civilised.

He is a money grabbing mean son-of-a-bitch,
who'd gone into Iraq for the oil fields....and for
the money in rebuilding Iraq.

Bad boy.

"yansimon52" <yansimon52@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143948460.785823.117590@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Its fundamental by getting themselves involved in this Iraq war was
> alreadi a very big mistake, a so-called ciltured society getting
> mess-up with a illiterate society....
> Uncultured people should be left on their own to solve (thru force)
> their own problem.....
>
> US getting involved themselves in Iraq is like a person, wearing 'coat
> and tie' involving an argument with some illiterate people at a wet
> market.........surely, the guy with coat and tie gonna lose
> out..............cause, in the world of illiteracy, there is no rules
> or laws.......
>
>
> Bad boy wrote:
>> The realities of US hopeless situation in Iraq
>> is finally sinking in.
>>
>> The US has absolutely no control in Iraq. US troops
>> are hiding behind barracks, fearing death if they ever
>> venture outside.
>> When they tried air petrol, their helicopters are being shot
>> down like birds. The latest, one US helicopter downed
>> yesterday in Baghdad.
>> When they tried ground petrol using armoured vehicles,
>> they are bombed to smithereens. Last weeks US troops
>> were killed by road side home made bombs.
>> The US troops are trapped in their barracks like captured
>> animals, fearing for their life.
>> Bush never bargain for such utter state of shame and
>> disgrace, when he smilingly declared victory immediately
>> following the fall of Saddam.
>>
>> Shiites who collaborated or worked with the US are being
>> systematically executed.
>> According to Diyala province Joint Coordination Center,
>> 10 attackers ambushed and killed a Shiite tribal chief Adil
>> Abdul Hadi and his male relatives near Balad Ruz as they
>> drove home on Friday.
>> Coalition forces found the bodies of six Iraqis in a car on
>> a major road in western Baghdad on Friday, according to
>> the U.S. military. They were found blindfolded, with their
>> hands bound.
>> Reports on such executions of US collaborators, in groups,
>> are becoming a daily affair.
>>
>> There is nothing the US could do to stop such execution
>> of people who work for the US and their families.
>>
>> U.S. journalist Jill Carroll, two days after her captors
>> released her in Baghdad, condemned the US in a video
>> show.
>>
>> Retired NATO military commander Gen. Wesley Clark
>> slammed the Bush administration Saturday, accusing it
>> of "tragic incompetence in everything from nation building
>> in Iraq ..."
>>
>> Yes. the end is near.....for the US stay in Iraq....for
>> the utter humilation of the US, ...the US as the top
>> dog in the world.....
>> Bush is becoming a US leader in shame....suffering
>> defeat in the hands of poor Iraqi who have no high
>> tech arms nor powerful war machines.
>>
>> Bush has bitten more than he could chew!
>>
>>
>> Bad boy.
>>
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/01/iraq.main/index.html
>> U.S. helicopter crashes near Baghdad
>> Gunmen kill Shiite tribal chief, relatives
>>
>> Saturday, April 1, 2006; Posted: 12:51 p.m. EST (17:51 GMT)
>> BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A U.S. military helicopter crashed Saturday
>> southwest
>> of Baghdad, the military said in a statement.
>>
>> "The status of the crew is unknown," the brief statement said.
>>
>> Officials said the helicopter was on a "combat air patrol" and came down
>> at
>> about 5:30 p.m. (9:30 a.m. ET).
>>
>> The statement added: "All additional information is being withheld
>> pending
>> investigation and notification of next of kin," the statement said.
>>
>> Elsewhere in Iraq, gunmen in three cars killed a Shiite tribal chief and
>> four male relatives near Balad Ruz as they drove home from a funeral,
>> according to a Diyala province Joint Coordination Center official.
>>
>> One of the family members was a police officer with the Baquba
>> intelligence
>> service.
>>
>> On Saturday morning, four Iraqi police officers were wounded as they
>> tried
>> to defuse a bomb behind Baghdad's Technical University. In a separate
>> incident, a mortar round exploded in a residential area in a southeastern
>> Baghdad suburb, wounding two civilians, officials said.
>>
>> Coalition forces also found the bodies of six Iraqis in a car on a major
>> road in western Baghdad, according to the U.S. military. They were found
>> blindfolded, with their hands bound, the statement said.
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 7 MINUTE DAYDREAM OF DUBYA!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5af6a6b713937b62
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:43 pm
From: "serwad"

April Sunday 2nd 2006 (00h56) :
The 7 Minute Daydream: What went on in Bush's mind?
1 comment(s).
We all know about the 7 minutes during the 9/11 attacks when Bush sat
"reading" My Pet Goat. But most people have no idea what was going on inside
that bland brain as Bush just seemed to stare into space for those long,
intermindable minutes.
Well, thanks to new technology developed by Professor G.L.Looney of Harvard,
we now have insight into exactly what Bush's thoughts were. As a public
service and as an exclusive to Bellacio, I present those musings below:

Minute #1 (immediately after Andy Card whispered in Bush's ear) "Hmm, I
wonder why he asks if I have to go pee? I don't"

Minute #2 "And what was that about planes hitting the twin towers? I thought
that wasn't scheduled until the 15th"

Minute #3 "I'd better not get up. It might panic the children and the TV
audience will think I don't care about these brats"

Minute #4 "I'm bored. This goat book stinks! How dare Card ask me to do this
photo op!"

Minute #5 "Now that the trade towers have been hit, Dick and I will be
raking in the dough. Now we can launch that war against those scumbag
uncooperative Taliban ba*t*rds!..and the public will lap it up!"

Minute #6 "Karl has a great idea. He wants me to grab a megaphone and rattle
off some line while standing atop a pile of rubbish with some dopey fireman.
I'll do it..and I'll bet the dummies will buy it"

Minute #7 "I'd better not sit here much longer. I'm getting nervous. Gee!, I
hope nobody's filming this, it could be embarrassing"

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M1TE&.#EA" `(`( ``.3DY ```"'Y! $`````+ `````(``@```('A(^IR^U=
#```[
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end

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 11:47 pm
From: "serwad"

"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:kAIXf.4959$L7.1695@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> April Sunday 2nd 2006 (00h56) :
> The 7 Minute Daydream: What went on in Bush's mind?
> 1 comment(s).
> We all know about the 7 minutes during the 9/11 attacks when Bush sat
> "reading" My Pet Goat. But most people have no idea what was going on
> inside that bland brain as Bush just seemed to stare into space for those
> long, intermindable minutes.
> Well, thanks to new technology developed by Professor G.L.Looney of
> Harvard, we now have insight into exactly what Bush's thoughts were. As a
> public service and as an exclusive to Bellacio, I present those musings
> below:
>
> Minute #1 (immediately after Andy Card whispered in Bush's ear) "Hmm, I
> wonder why he asks if I have to go pee? I don't"
>
> Minute #2 "And what was that about planes hitting the twin towers? I
> thought that wasn't scheduled until the 15th"
>
> Minute #3 "I'd better not get up. It might panic the children and the TV
> audience will think I don't care about these brats"
>
> Minute #4 "I'm bored. This goat book stinks! How dare Card ask me to do
> this photo op!"
>
> Minute #5 "Now that the trade towers have been hit, Dick and I will be
> raking in the dough. Now we can launch that war against those scumbag
> uncooperative Taliban ba*t*rds!..and the public will lap it up!"
>
> Minute #6 "Karl has a great idea. He wants me to grab a megaphone and
> rattle off some line while standing atop a pile of rubbish with some dopey
> fireman. I'll do it..and I'll bet the dummies will buy it"
>
> Minute #7 "I'd better not sit here much longer. I'm getting nervous. Gee!,
> I hope nobody's filming this, it could be embarrassing"

O R:
OR
" Daddy will be proud of me now"

" I hope these attacks cant be traced back to me"

" Cool.... I can be feared more than Hitler ever was"

" Let the bullshit begin "

" Great... I'll get a straight burbon on Airforce One... nah... make that
three or a taller glass"

" Man !! I'm gonna get even more rich and so will my buddies"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHILD MOLESTER CHRISTIAN PRIEST'S VICTIMS PAID OFF BY CHURCH
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fc52b610ea1162c8
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 4:44 am
From: usenet@mantra.comdd9 and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

2 brothers settle abuse case for over $1 million

By P-I staff and news services
Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Saturday, April 1, 2006

Two brothers who accused former Seattle priest John
Cornelius of repeatedly molesting them as teenagers
during the 1970s have settled their case against the
Seattle Archdiocese for more than $1 million.

The brothers had planned to go to trial against the
archdiocese in June. Similar charges they made against
the diocese of Boise, Idaho, and the Order of the
Sulpicians -- both of which hosted Cornelius -- remain
unresolved and scheduled for court.

"What's interesting about the case is Cornelius went from
Boise to the Sulpician seminary to the Seattle
Archdiocese and, despite knowledge that he was a problem,
nobody took steps to address it," said Michael Pfau, a
lawyer who represented the brothers.

Cornelius has since been defrocked by the Vatican.

"For us, this was the end of an attempt to bring closure
and healing to the victims," said Greg Magnoni, a
spokesman for the Seattle Archdiocese. "It's our hope
that they accept our apology and this settlement as an
opportunity for closure."

More at:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/265207_priest01.html

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Allah will not be pleased - Afg court drops case against Xtian
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d99b23e352376324
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:47 pm
From: verifyingchristian@yahoo.com

New Islamic convert Elisabeth L of U K says: "Allah Came Knocking At
My Heart".

Allah Came Knocking At My Heart, BUT YOU be SURE THAT THAT IS REALLY
KNOCKING COMING FROM THE TRUE ALLAH OTHERWISE IT WILL BE SATAN CAME
KNOCKING AT YOUR HEART! You cannot be sure of the truth because your
Islamic Allah cannot speak: so how could you be sure, Elisabeth,
whether it was Allah or Satan in disguise as Allah?

How to verifying whether a Holy Book is of God or of Satan, prove the
followings:
1) For the Quran: Is the last messenger, Mohammed, holy enough with
officially 12 wives and unofficially uncountable wives?
1) For the Bible: Is the Messenger of God, Jesus, holy enough with no
wife and thus have the time to do the will of God? Jesus the True
Messenger of God did not marry for His primary purpose is to do the
will of God as the True Messenger of God.
True Messenger of the The Allah must be HOLY giving no thought to sex
BUT THE THOUGHT OF DOING THE WILL OF GOD obediently.

2) For the Quran: the need to have human witnesses to subtantiate the
sayings of last messenger of Allah is required to verify the truth of
the Holy Book Quran. Hence, a True Messenger of Allah must have human
witnesses and just having angel Gabriel is not good enough to
substantiate the claim of Mohammed that he was the last messenger. Even
the Quran itself under sura 024:013 requires at least 4 human witnesses
to sustantiate a truth. But Mohammed did not have EVEN 1 HUMAN WITNESS
to substantiate Mohammed's sayings as true.
2) For the Bible: the need to have human witnesses to subtantiate the
sayings of the messenger of The True Allah is required to verify the
truth of the Holy Book Bible.
Jesus has countless human witnesses to substantiate his sayings as
true. Out of the countless human witnesses, 4 human witnesses each
wrote testimony to subtantiate the sayings of Jesus as true.

Be ye WISE so that you will know who is The True Allah(Jesus) and who
is the False Allah(Satan)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHRISTIAN PRIEST HELD ON $200,000 BAIL FOR RAPING WOMAN
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c69133da430633df
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 4:47 am
From: usenet@mantra.com2p5 and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Priest held on $200,000 bail for alleged rape

By Cicero A. Estrella, Chronicle Staff Writer
San Francisco Chronicle, Page B-3
Saturday, April 1, 2006

Saratoga - A Saratoga priest has been arrested for the
alleged rape of an Oregon woman he had been counseling
over the phone for the last year, authorities said on
Friday.

The Rev. Randy Benas, 45, of Sacred Heart Parish in
Saratoga was arrested Thursday and is being held on
$200,000 bail at the Santa Clara County Jail, Sunnyvale
Department of Public Safety Lt. Marty Dale said.

"The staff and the parishioners are very surprised," said
Elizabeth Lily, a parish minister. "There was nothing to
suspect anything like this. People are in a state of
disbelief."

The 29-year-old Oregon woman alleged that Benas raped her
early Tuesday morning after she met him at the Motel 6 on
Mathilda Avenue in Sunnyvale. She was driving to visit
friends in San Diego but had stopped in the Bay Area late
Monday after Benas asked her to meet him for the first
time, Dale said.

They had been exchanging letters and about two phone
calls a month for the last year, Dale said.

"The victim viewed it as a counseling or mentoring
relationship," Dale said. "The father's insight had
helped her through struggles that she was having."

The woman was looking for spiritual guidance a year ago
when she sent inquiry letters to a number of priests
around the country. Benas was the only one to respond,
Dale said.

Benas was ordained in his native Philippines in 1985,
according to the Sacred Heart Parish Web site.

He came to the Saratoga parish as a parochial vicar
nearly three years ago and served at three other parishes
in the Diocese of San Jose since 1993.

Lily said she expects the diocese will place Benas on a
leave of absence.

"Once the court system completes its process, the Diocese
of San Jose will have its own process of investigation
and disposition," she said.

More at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/01/BAGANI1TRV1.DTL

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ARMS MERCHANT6S OF DEATH...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/280941053b7a35ef
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 11:52 pm
From: "serwad"

SEMYON MOGILEVICH AND VICTOR BOUT, ONE ISRAELI ANOTHER WANNABE. SUDAN WAR
WILL NEVER END BECAUSE BILLIONS ARE POURING INTO ZIONZI COFFERS FROM THE
SALE OF DEATH.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's Hard Out Here For Some Blacks To Understand OSCARZ Award For Pimp
Song
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3d457b28e7c423a1
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 11:53 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:57:17 -0800, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:31:37 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"It was a struggle for us last night because we wanted to root for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blacks, but the blacks were pimps and hos on the Oscars, so it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>confounding," she said. "Image is everything, and we have to be so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>careful about the way we position ourselves in front of larger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>audiences."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Image is not everything and anyone with such a superficial concept of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>reality really should try harder at accumulating some depth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Well alas not everyone in the `hood is as "deep" a thinker as you
>>>>>>>>>>>>believe yourself to be. Also some have at least a modicum of pride
>>>>>>>>>>>>and self-respect and don't wish to be associated in any way with
>>>>>>>>>>>>street thugs, pimps and hos. Imagine THAT.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now all you have to do is explain why they are being associated with
>>>>>>>>>>>such people simply because some people sang a song on the television.
>>>>>>>>>>>Only bigots and racists would assume that black people are represented
>>>>>>>>>>>by that song and why should they care what bigots and racists think?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>IOW, they should drop their pride and self-respect.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The pride and self'respect of individual black people don't depend on
>>>>>>>>>the songs picked at the oscars. That's stupid on it's face and yet
>>>>>>>>>it's your usual best.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, it's NOT stupid at all. What's there to be proud of when someone
>>>>>>>>belonging to the same narrow demographic profile celebrates pimps and
>>>>>>>>hos? It's just like the black lady above said: " `It was a struggle
>>>>>>>>for us last night because we wanted to root for the blacks, but the
>>>>>>>>blacks were pimps and hos on the Oscars, so it was confounding,` she
>>>>>>>>said. `Image is everything, and we have to be so careful about the
>>>>>>>>way we position ourselves in front of largeraudiences.`"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yep, she gets it and you don't. Status quo for you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, she's worried about what white people will think and I'm not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IOW, she's not ignorant, but you *are* ignorant, and you're proud of
>>>>>>it too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>So according to you it's important what white people think of black
>>>>>people and we should be concerned about it? Why?
>>>>
>>>>No, it's important what *black* people think of black people, and they
>>>>*are* concerned about it, at least some are.
>>>>
>>>There's nothing wrong with what black people think about black people.
>>
>>But some have concerns about some others, as evidenced by the quotes
>>in the article I posted. Or as shown by concerns evidenced by some
>>prominent blacks, like Bill Cosby and many others, for example.
>>
>Those people you referenced weren't concerned about what black people
>think about black people, they were concerned about what other will
>think about black people. The article even says that.

But *you* just finished raising the point about what black people
think about other blacks, yes?.

>>>>>>>That would be something that would be high on your list of concerns,
>>>>>>>that black people worry about what other races (especially whites)
>>>>>>>will think of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why should I care what they think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Don't know, yet here you are in a newsgroup for black people. If you
>>>>>don't care why are you here?
>>>>
>>>>Missing the point as usual.
>>>>
>>>As usual, when you can't articulate whatever you think your point is
>>>you say I'm missing it. Convienent way of attempting to hide your
>>>inability to describe your actions.
>>
>>Nope, you're just continously confused. About a great many things.
>>
>
>Well, since you can't coherently make your points that would lead to a
>fair bit of confusion.

Wrong, I've made them, and coherently too.

>>>>>>>I'm not part of that crowd and quite frankly I'm
>>>>>>>pretty glad that more and more young black people feel the same way I
>>>>>>>do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Proof? Did ya take a survey?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Don't have to, there are examples of it everywhere.
>>>>
>>>>Sure, in the hip-hop clubs, on some street corners at 2 AM, in the
>>>>jails, and the graveyards. Did I miss anything else?
>>>>
>>>Yeah, Volks Wagon commercials where a white guy is using gang signs to
>>>define the VW logo. Or the hundreds of examples of hip-hop lingo
>>>being used in more and more media.
>>
>>You've obviously never heard of targeted advertising. The ad that you
>>claim you saw probably only ran on BET and/or a show that is aimed
>>primarily at black folks, perhaps on the U Peoples Network. I've
>>never seen this particular commercial, because I don't normally tune
>>in to those channels.
>>
>
>I note that you have to make a completely unsubstantiated assumption
>to respond. I don't watch BET or UPN and I still managed to see the
>commercial. Nor does your response address the fact that an
>international corporation recognizes that hip hop is so popular that
>it makes sense to spend millions of dollars on an ad campaign.

The issue is not whether it's popular with some folks at this
particular junction in time, but whether it's a good thing, and
whether it has the power of longevity. I say "no" to both.

And here's yet another African-American columnist who thinks that his
fellow blacks should throw the cRap / hip-hop culture off the bus:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/404374p-342477c.html

>>>You being stuck in the past don't
>>>understand it or recognize it for what it is but that's fine. Like I
>>>said, such dinosaurs as you don't adapt and die off anyway. Our great
>>>fortune is that you claim not to have offspring and thus saving us the
>>>trouble of another generation of stupidity at least from your loins.
>>
>>You're silly and ignorant and as usual, your paragraphs are packed
>>with lies, half-truths and assumptions.
>>
>None of which you can articulate or demonstrate as being a lie, half
>truth or assumption. As usual you simply say it and assume everyone
>will believe you because you're the psuedo-great white man.

The errors of most of your wild-eyed claims are self-evident, and need
no elaboration from me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"The only place many people see our culture is through movies and on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>television, and at the same time, this country is experiencing an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>influx of people coming over here from all over the world, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>only thing they see of black America through the media is . . . pimps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and gangsters and all of that. It's always some low-down brother or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>some welfare mother."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why should anyone be concerned about people who gets their information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>about a very diverse culture of people from the television?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>See above.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I did. You didn't explain why they should be concerned, you assume
>>>>>>>>>>>they should be concerned without saying why.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, I did.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No you didn't. You made your usual bigotted assumption that black
>>>>>>>>>people as a whole should feel some responsibility for the actions of a
>>>>>>>>>few. Yet you don't seem to hold white people responsible as a whole
>>>>>>>>>for similar manifestations of social behavior in your own race. The
>>>>>>>>>duplicity of such a stance fits your usual hypocrisy and the logic
>>>>>>>>>your usual stupidty.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Because there are nearly as many "white" stereotypes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...and you don't hold whites responsible as a whole for any of them.
>>>>>>>You reserve that duplicity for people of color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In fact, I can't think of many stereotypes applying to whites in
>>>>>>general, and those few that do exist are relatively trivial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Do you have a list of stereotypes for other races that apply to that
>>>>>race in general? Mind listing them?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I do, because this thread is about the Oscars committee honoring
>>>>a well-worn black stereotype.
>>>>
>>>...moreso because your list demonstrates that you are a bigot and
>>>listing your bigotted assumptions is embarassing.
>>
>>Wrong, you keep accusing me of bigotry, yet consistently remain unable
>>to prove it. Because you can't prove something that isn't true.
>>
>More like you can't prove an opinion to someone who is already
>convinced there's no merit to your opinion. You wouldn't believe
>something negative about yourself if there were film. Thus why
>bother?

Because in your case you have no film to show.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Particularly offensive to Robinson, 36, was the performance by hip-hop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>group Three 6 Mafia, featuring men dressed as pimps and women in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>hot pants and rabbit furs of streetwalkers. "I have no problem with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>movies and songs being gritty," she said, "but I have a problem with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something that falls just short of a minstrel show."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then he shouldn't be watching. That's what the television dial is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>for. I managed not to look at it at all and it didn't affect my life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the least.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Guess what, I didn't watch the show either, not one minute. But the
>>>>>>>>>>>>problem is that over 30 million Americans *did* tune in. And they saw
>>>>>>>>>>>>Hollyweed give them a minstrel show. You've come a long way since
>>>>>>>>>>>>MLK baby?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Sure have and as such I don't have to worry about bigots such as
>>>>>>>>>>>yourself using television shows as a representation of me as a black
>>>>>>>>>>>person. Many people are aware that there is a difference between a
>>>>>>>>>>>television awards show and reality and the numbers grow daily.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On the latter point, yes there's some truth to that. Still, any
>>>>>>>>>>self-respecting black leader should have been complaining to Hollywood
>>>>>>>>>>the next day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>...as if you know what a self-respecting black person would do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes, I do. It's the same as a self-respecting member of any other
>>>>>>>>group would do when someone tries to cash in on a negative stereotype
>>>>>>>>of that group.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Then you would realize that your self-respect is not defined by what
>>>>>>>someone else is doing and it wouldn't bother you in the least. Self
>>>>>>>respect is based on what you as an individual may or many ont do, not
>>>>>>>what people you don't even know is doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Except that if others who fit my narrow demographic slice do things
>>>>>>like self-destructive behavior, I'd be ashamed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Then you'd be stupid, oh that's right, you are stupid. Anyone taking
>>>>>on the guilt of others actions is behaving in a self-destructive way.
>>>>>You have no responsibility for the actions of others.
>>>>
>>>>Now who said anything about taking responsibility or guilt for the
>>>>misdeeds of others? Clearly, ya have no idea what the concept of
>>>>shame is.
>>>>
>>>Why would you feel shame for the misdeeds of others unless you are
>>>somehow culpable for their actions? That is stupid.
>>
>>No, you're just mixed up. It's not an issue of culpability, it's an
>>issue of belonging to the same group, the same narrow demographic
>>slice of people.
>>
>That doesn't answer the question. If you had nothing to do with their
>actions WHY should you feel the least bit ashamed about anything?

Still don't get it do you?

>>>>>>>>>>If an award had gone out to members of another group
>>>>>>>>>>who reinforced negative stereotypes, ya can be damn sure their leaders
>>>>>>>>>>would have been out in force on the airwaves the next day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Another of your ridiculous predictions about what would have happened
>>>>>>>>>if a different history existed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Except that this "ridiculous" prediction is pretty easy to make.
>>>>>>>>Whenever a show like The Sopranos gets awards, you will see
>>>>>>>>Italian-American leaders out in force the next day blasting that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So what? Why do blacks as a whole have to act as Italian-Americans or
>>>>>>>in any monolithic way at all? Maybe Italian-Americans don't have more
>>>>>>>serious problems to deal with than what songs win at the oscars right
>>>>>>>now?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sure, because there are generally very few pimps to be found in
>>>>>>predominantly Italian-American neighborhoods. Which allows them to
>>>>>>focus on other important matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>How do you know there are 'very few pimps to be found in predominantly
>>>>>Italian-American neighborhoods'?
>>>>
>>>>Because I lived in and around them for decades. In fact, I myself
>>>>have never seen pimps in any of the places I've lived, because I make
>>>>it a point of living in only high-class areas. No low-rent districts
>>>>for me.
>>>>
>>>Have you ever tried to find a pimp?
>>
>>Nope, and I know that if I did, I'd be wasting my time if I searched
>>around the blocks where I live. You?
>>
>You haven't? Then why did you say you had 'first person experience
>with them' in another thread?

First-person experience in knowing that no riff-raff lives in my
`hood.

>From: Voice Of Reason <>
>Newsgroups:
>rec.arts.tv,soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rap
>Subject: Re: Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp")
>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:12:33 -0500
>
><...>
>vor:
>>>>>Wrong, wrong and wrong. Now quit dreaming, get out of bed and go do
>>>>>something constructive. Like chase the pimps off your block.
>>>>>
>
>von:
>>>>My neighborhood apprently doesn't share the same type of people as
>>>>yours. There are no pimps to worry about around here that I am aware
>>>>of.
>>>
>
>vor:
>>>Did you open your eyes after hitting the street?. But I can assure
>>>you there are NO pimps, gangs, etc, on my block.
>>>
>
>von:
>>Well, you're the one bringing them up so I guess we are again subject
>>to you speaking on a subject of which you are totally ignorant.
>
>vor:
>Yes, I plead guilty to having first-person experience with them.
>
>___________________________

>>>>>>And I'd bet that if a bunch of pimps, accompanied by their hos, showed
>>>>>>up soliciting on *your* block, you'd no longer be celebrating that
>>>>>>Oscar but reaching instead for the phone number of the local police
>>>>>>station.
>>>>>
>>>>>Who said I was celebrating the oscar?
>>>>
>>>>Oh, so now you *do* agree that the Oscar committee should have found
>>>>some better role model to honor if they were bent on honoring blacks
>>>>this year?
>>>
>>>No I don't. I couldn't care less if the oscars award a song written
>>>by a black person one bit. Also, if they found a song by a black
>>>person or group good enough for an award I have no problem with that
>>>at all either. It's irrelevant as an issue in the general black
>>>community that I am aware of EXCEPT within the black entertainment
>>>community. And I haven't read anything by any of them condemning it
>>>so there is apparently no problem except in your mind.
>>
>>I guess you didn't read the article I posted earlier from the
>>Washington Post either. Figures.
>
>Again you make stupid assumpitons and comment out of ignorance.

Wrong, because if you had read the article carefully, you have to
acknowledge that many blacks didn't like the Oscar award going to
someone celebrating pimping and bitches and hos.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The true ID of Alistair (was Re: Rick Murphy aka Mark Rivers)
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66bb27818a57910b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:54 pm
From: "RomanII"

Ich finde Dich Scheiße
choro-nik wrote:
> What's happened, Alistair? Made a mistake and used your "Alistair Sim" pen
> name rather than your usual "Panta Rhei" nick on a topic such as this?
>
> See, sooner or later you are bound to make mistakes and reveal your identity
> if you resort to using different pen-names in different circumstances.
> Obviously your training wasn't through enough.
> --
> choro-nik
> ********
>
> "Alistair Sim" <tartan_army@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:yFpXf.3213$L6.673@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > Maize
> > What happened Rivers? Got tired of Mark Rivers? Why do you always choose
> > American names of British origin?
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Alistair Sim
> >
> > They seek him here, They seek him there, Those Frenchies seek him
> > everywhere. Is he in heaven? Or is he in hell? That damned elusive
> > Pimpernel! ...
> >
> >
> > My brain has always governed my heart.
> > The emotional qualities are antagonistic to clear reasoning.
> > My name is Sherlock Holmes. It is my business to know what other people
> > don't know
> > My mind rebels at stagnation. Give me problems, give me work, give me the
> > most abstruse cryptogram or the most intricate analysis, and I am in my
> > own proper atmosphere. I can dispense then with artificial stimulants. But
> > I abhor the dull routine of existence. I crave for mental exaltation.
> >
> > Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.
> > How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible,
> > whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
> >

==============================================================================
TOPIC: IAEA Chief Tells US to Lower the Pitch on Iran
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9aecb36a0055ed0a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 4:56 am
From: "Docky Wocky"

nytn posts:

"Berlin, April 1 (RHC)-- United Nations atomic energy chief Mohamed
ElBaradei has urged the United States and its allies to steer away
from threats of sanctions against Iran..."
____________________________
Gee! What an unusual request from the biggest enabler of the islamic bomb on
the face f the planet.

Mohamed has been shucking and jiving us as long as he's been in a position
to make sure his employers get nukes.

Anyone who believes anything he says is likely to believe everything the
Democrats say, which explains a lot.

Maybe some day, Woody Allen will do Mohamed, Mohammad, and Mohammed.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHRISTIAN PRIEST WHO MOLESTED TEEN GIRL TO TAKE OVER CHURCH
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e8bc7c67ebb2930
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 4:56 am
From: usenet@mantra.com8wn and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Priest accused of sex abuse assigned to John Day

Associated Press
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Saturday, April 1, 2006

John Day, Ore. - A priest accused of molesting a teenage
girl in Texas more than 20 years ago will take over the
parish in this Eastern Oregon town next week, church
officials said.

The Rev. Richard Edelin was accused of abuse by a 17-
year-old parishioner who was then working in youth
ministry at St. John Vianney Catholic Church in west
Houston.

Edelin has denied the allegation and church officials in
Houston said their investigation could not substantiate
the abuse claim.

Parishioners at St. Elizabeth of Hungary Catholic Church
in John Day will be advised of the situation this
weekend, said Rev. James Logan, chancellor of the Baker
Diocese, which covers 18 Eastern Oregon counties.

Edelin is listed on a church Web site as temporary
administrator and director of religious education at St.
Elizabeth. He had served previously in the Hermiston
area.

Logan said he thought the John Day parish has about 60
families.

He said the Oregon diocese has had "very clear
communication" with Houston about the allegation "and the
fact that no substance to it was found."

The Houston Chronicle reported that in 1996 the
Galveston-Houston Diocese sent the alleged victim an
apology and $5,000 for counseling expenses she said she
incurred.

"It is not an admission that the priest did whatever she
was alleging he did," Bishop Joseph Fiorenza said. "But
clearly there is pain there."

The woman claimed the affair began with hugs and advanced
to groping in church offices, during confession and on
retreats. She said she declined an offer to go to his
bedroom

Houston church officials said there were no other
complaints against Edelin.

At the time of the complaint, church officials said,
Edelin was not serving as a priest for unrelated reasons
they declined to discuss.

The chancellor of the Galveston-Houston Diocese, Msgr.
Frank Rossi, said Edelin asked to return to the ministry
in late 2002.

More at:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/14238562.htm

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "We are the TERRORISTS..."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/19537260e534dde
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 9:02 pm
From: "RomanII"

Der notorische türkische Dorfidiot von Usenet hat noch einen anderen
eingeholt
verrückte "Identität" (mehr als fünfzig bis jetzt)!!

Er klingt ebenso hilflos, unfähig und vergestört wie immer! Er bleibt
noch
24/7, Tag für Tag, Woche um Woche, Monat um Monat, Jahr danach
dahineilend
Jahr! Ein wahrer Verlierer ohne LEBEN ÜBERHAUPT! LMAO!
War on TERRORIST SCUM ! wrote:
> Ali Asker wrote:
> > Ali Asker wrote:
> > > Mhitsos wrote:
> > > > rick murphy wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "From: Ali Asker (pasa_asker@lycos.com)
> > > > > Subject: Re: Kuwerdish contribution to Oscar 2005
> > > > > This is the only article in this thread
> > > > > View: Original Format
> > > > > Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian, soc.culture.kurdish,
> > > > > soc.culture.turkish, soc.culture.iraq
> > > > > Date: 2004-10-02 04:55:12 PST
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We are the TERRORISTS...
> > > > >
> > > > > We will divide Iran, Turkey, Syria and Iraq in to the pieces until
> > > > > ever single individual is free from thought control, torture and
> > > > > brain-washing! Every nation should have their own land where they can
> > > > > practice their own culture. Iran has consist of about 20 some
> > > > > different nations and we will tore them in to 20 different countries
> > > > > and give mollahs a small land where they can practice their barbaric
> > > > > religion to themselves and only harm temselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > WE WILL BREAK IRAN IN TO THE PIECES!!! "
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ++++++++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.turkses.com/index.asp
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Terror Organization KADEK
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. General
> > > > >
> > > > > Historical Background
> > > > >
> > > > > The initial activities regarding the terror organization PKK have
> > > > > started with the intellectual activities of some students defending the
> > > > > Marxist-Leninist ideology within the Ankara's Democratic Patriotic
> > > > > Students Association (ADYÖD) under the leadership of Abdullah ÖCALAN
> > > > > since 1973.
> > > > >
> > > > > Abdullah ÖCALAN and his friends declared the setting up of the
> > > > > Kurdistan's Workers Party (PKK) during an illegal meeting held in the
> > > > > Diyarbakir province, Lice district, Fis village on November 27, 1978
> > > > > which was called 1 st. Congress.
> > > > >
> > > > > The inital documents stating PKK's aim were the "The Way Of
> > > > > Kurdistan's Revolution-Manifesto" and party program published in 1978.
> > > > > According to the said program, the aim of the terror organization is to
> > > > > found initially an independent Marxist-Leninist Kurdistan
> > > >
> > > > We don't want marxism so lets declare them " terrorists "
> > > > > state in the
> > > > > East and Southeast Anatolian regions in Turkey by using the method of
> > > > > armed propaganda and to achieve subsequently its final goal of
> > > > > establishing an "Independent United Kurdistan" through the unification
> > > > > of the Kurdish states to be founded in neighboring countries.
> > > >
> > > > Well since Kurds are second class citizen within Turkey, a place they
> > > > have ben living thousands of years BEFORE the invasion by the Turks,
> > > > what other options do they have?
> > > > >
> > > > > To this end, the terror organization PKK having officially declared
> > > > > the commencement of its armed activities following the bloody attacks
> > > > > on the districts Eruh and Þemdinli on August 15, 1984 has determined
> > > > > four-stage strategy in order to divide and destroy Turkey by trying to
> > > > > gather some part of the people, who have been living in peace within
> > > > > the country for thousands of years,
> > > >
> > > > Yea but before the Turks come but since the arrival of the Turks
> > > > millions got murdered and the Armenians got genocided.
> > > > My grandfather himself had to flee from Smyrna where his ancestors were
> > > > living for thousands of years.
> > > > > on a separate territory under a
> > > > > different flag claiming that they have allegedly a different identity.
> > > > Yes they are just " claiming ". Every good brainwashed Turk knows that
> > > > Kurds are mountain Turks who DO NOT HAVE a own language and own history.
> > > > So why the hell do they want to speak Kurdish?
> > > > A language that according to Turkish nazi propaganda don't exist.
> > >
> > >
> > > LOL LOL LOL..
> > >
> > > You are talking to a turkish brain washed ROBOCOP police who have no
> > > life but just to obey orders from their masters!!!
> > >
> > > LOL...
> >
> > Sorry, I should have said fully programed "ROBOCOP" police officer who
> > have no life but just to obey orders from it's masters!
> >
> > You can change the program by simply entering 16kB ASCII code which is
> > 0123456789
> >
> > LOLOLOL this is the turkish masters and their security code :-)
> >
> > You have to get him first though and the command keypad is in his back!
> > Yes you guessed it right, in his big fat ars! Be carefull don't go too
> > dip on him.
> >
> > LOLOLOL
>
>
>
> Do you think you are funny ?
>
> BOGUS asylum seeking fugitive terrorist CUNT ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MORE BULLSHIT BY ELIE WIESEL-THE LIAR!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/992da07741be86cf
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 9:06 pm
From: "serwad"

When in trouble, head for Auschwitz, preferably in the company of Elie
Wiesel. It's as foolproof a character reference as is available today, at
least within the Judeo-Christian sphere of moral influence. One can easily
see why Oprah Winfrey and her advisers saw an Auschwitz excursion in the
company of Wiesel as a sure-fire antidote to salve the wounds sustained by
Oprah's Book Club when it turned out that James Frey had faked significant
slabs of his own supposedly autobiographical saga of moral regeneration, A
Million Little Pieces.

Published in 2003, Frey's irksome book swiftly became a cult classic. (The
present author was offered it in the summer of 2004 by a young relative,
presumably to assist in his moral regeneration, but after glancing through a
few pages returned it, on the grounds that it wasn't his kind of thing.)
Winfrey picked it for her Book Club in September 2005, and it rocketed to
the top of the bestseller lists.

For Frey the sky fell in when, on January 7, 2006, the Smoking Gun website
published documents showing that Frey had fabricated many facts about
himself, including a criminal record. There were later charges of
plagiarism. Frey ran through a benign gauntlet of trial-by-Larry King on
January 11, and Oprah called in to stand by her Pick of the Month. She said
that what mattered was not whether Frey's book was true (the Fundamentalist
claim for the Holy Bible) but its value as a therapeutic tool (the modern
Anglican position on the Good Book).

But by now every columnist and books page editor in America was wrestling
the truth-or-fiction issue to the ground. Oprah turned on Frey. On her show
on January 26, he clung to the ropes, offering the excuse that the "demons"
that had driven him to drink and drugs had also driven him into claiming
that everything he wrote about himself was true. Publishers including Random
House, which has made millions off him, had rejected the book when he'd
initially offered it as a "fiction novel". Oprah brushed this aside.

"Say it's all true" is what demons often whisper in an author's ear. Ask
T.E. Lawrence. Did the Bey of Deraa really rape him? Lawrence suggests it in
the Seven Pillars of Wisdom in paragraphs of fervent masochistic
reminiscence. This and other adventures in Lawrence's account of British
scheming in Mesopotamia against the Ottomans met with the ecstatic
admiration of the Oxford-based equivalent of Oprah's Book Club back in the
early 1920s, after Lawrence had the 350,000-word "memoir" privately printed
and circulated. He'd written an earlier version in 1919 but claimed this had
been stolen while he was changing trains in Reading, on the way to Oxford
from London. (Reading has surely been the site of more supposed thefts and
losses of "completed manuscripts" and PhD dissertations -- "I didn't make a
copy!" -- than any railway station in the world.)

Half a century later it occurred to Colin Simpson and Phillip Knightley of
the London Sunday Times to ask the supposed rapist for his side of the
story. They hurried off to Turkey and tracked down the town to which the Bey
had retired, arriving at his home only to learn he'd died not long before.
Relatives told the British reporters that the Bey would not have found
Lawrence appetizing prey. The Turk was a noted womanizer, and when in
Mesopotamia was always getting the clap from consorting with whores on his
excursions to Damascus.

It's fun to think of Oprah grilling Lawrence about his claims, freshly
exposed on Smoking Gun, telling him she felt "really duped" but that, "more
importantly, I feel that you betrayed millions of Orientalizing masochists
who believed you".

But hardly had Frey been cast down from the eminence of Amazon.com's top
bestseller before he was replaced at number one by the new pick of Oprah's
Book Club, Elie Wiesel's Night, which had the good fortune to see
republication at this fraught moment in Oprah's literary affairs.
Simultaneous with the Night selection came news that Oprah Winfrey and Elie
Wiesel would shortly be visiting Auschwitz together, from which vantage
point Oprah, with the lugubrious Wiesel at her side, could emphasize for her
ABC-TV audience that there is truth and there is fiction, that Auschwitz is
historical truth at its bleakest and most terrifying, that Night is a
truthful account and that Wiesel is the human embodiment of truthful
witness.

The trouble here is that in its central, most crucial scene, Night isn't
historically true, and at least two other important episodes are almost
certainly fiction. Below, I cite views, vigorously expressed to me in recent
weeks by a concentration camp survivor, Eli Pfefferkorn, who worked with
Wiesel for many years; also by Raul Hilberg. Hilberg is the world's leading
authority on the Nazi Holocaust. An expanded version of his classic
three-volume study, The Destruction of the European Jews, was recently
reissued by Yale University Press. Wiesel personally enlisted Hilberg to be
the historical expert on the United States Holocaust Commission.

If absolute truth to history is the standard, Pfefferkorn says, then Night
doesn't make the grade. Wiesel made things up, in a way that his many
subsequent detractors could identify as not untypical of his modus operandi:
grasping with deft assurance what people important to his future would want
to hear and, by the same token, would not want to hear.

The book that became Night was originally a much longer account, published
in Yiddish in 1956, under the title Un di Velt Hot Geshvign (And the World
Remained Silent). Wiesel was living in Paris at the time. By 1958 he had
translated his book from Yiddish into French, publishing it in that year
under the title La Nuit. Wiesel says it was severely cut down in length by
Jerome Lindon, the chief editor at Editions de Minuit. In 1960 came the
English translation, Night, published by Hill & Wang. The 2006 edition of
Night is translated from the 1958 French version by Wiesel's wife, Marion,
and in the introduction Wiesel says he has "been able to correct and revise
a number of important details".

In the New York Times for January 17, Michiko Kakutani wrote in her usual
plodding prose, with her usual aversion to any unconventional thought, that
"Mr. Frey's embellishments of the truth, his cavalier assertion that the
'writer of a memoir is retailing a subjective story,' his casual attitude
about how people remember the past -- all stand in shocking contrast to the
apprehension of memory as a sacred act that is embodied in Oprah Winfrey's
new selection for her book club, announced yesterday: Night, Elie Wiesel's
devastating 1960 account of his experiences in Auschwitz and Buchenwald."

Amazon.com got the message quickly enough. The site had been categorizing
the new edition of Night under "fiction and literature" but, under the
categorical imperative of Kakutani's "memory as a sacred act" or a phone
call from Wiesel's publisher, hastily switched it to "biography and memoir".
Within hours it had reached number 3 on Amazon's bestseller list. That same
evening, January 17, Night topped both the "biography" and "fiction"
bestseller lists on BarnesandNoble.com.

Nonetheless, over the next few days there were articles in the Jewish
Forward and in the New York Times, also a piece on NPR, saying that Night
should not be taken as unvarnished documentary. In the Forward article,
published January 20, challengingly titled "Six Million Little Pieces?",
Joshua Cohen reminded Forward readers that in 1996, Naomi Seidman, a Jewish
Studies professor at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California,
had compared the original 1956 Yiddish version of the book with the
subsequent, drastically edited translation.

"According to Seidman's account, published in the scholarly journal Jewish
Social Studies", Cohen wrote, "Wiesel substantially rewrote the work between
editions -- suggesting that the strident and vengeful tone of the Yiddish
original was converted into a continental, angst-ridden existentialism more
fitting to Wiesel's emerging role as an ambassador of culture and
conscience. Most important, Seidman wrote that Wiesel altered several facts
in the later edition, in some cases offering accounts of pivotal moments
that conflicted with the earlier version. (For example, in the French, the
young Wiesel, having been liberated from Buchenwald, is recuperating in a
hospital; he looks into a mirror and writes that he saw a corpse staring
back at him. In the earlier Yiddish, Wiesel holds that upon seeing his
reflection he smashed the mirror and then passed out, after which 'my health
began to improve.')"

That said, Cohen emphasized that whereas "Frey, for one, seems to have
falsified the facts of his life in order to satisfy ego and the demands of
the market, Wiesel's liberties seem more like reconsiderations, his process
less revision than interpretation. Reading Night, one encounters the birth
of thought about the Holocaust - the future of history, concomitant with its
study. In both versions, the book's intent is to engage not the
undeniability of the Holocaust, but the man who has undeniably emerged from
its horror."

This reverent tone about Wiesel and his work is customary. People mostly
write about him and his work with the muted awe of British tourists reading
guidebooks to each other in a French cathedral. In The Jewish Press for
February 1, Andrew Silow Carroll was a bit friskier. He cited Wiesel as
declaring to the New York Times that Night "is not a novel at all. All the
people I describe were with me there. I object angrily if someone mentions
it as a novel." And yet, Silow Carroll went on, "in the past, Wiesel hasn't
helped matters in this regard. In 1972, Hill & Wang packaged Night with two
other books, Dawn and The Accident, which Wiesel clearly identified as
novels. The set's cover refers to the works as 'Three Tales by Elie Wiesel.'
In a later edition of the same volume, Wiesel refers to all three books as
'narratives,' although he calls Night a 'testimony,' and the other two
'commentaries.'"

There are some rather comical instances of Wiesel's relaxed attitude to
autobiographical truth, as excavated in Norman Finkelstein's book, The
Goldhagen Thesis and Historical Truth. Wiesel was one of Goldhagen's main
supporters. In his 1995 memoir, All Rivers Run to the Sea Wiesel writes that
at the age of 18, recently liberated from Auschwitz, "I read The Critique of
Pure Reason--don't laugh!--in Yiddish." Finkelstein comments, "Leaving aside
Wiesel's acknowledgement that at the time ''I was wholly ignorant of Yiddish
grammar' The Critique of Pure Reason was never translated into Yiddish."
Imagine the lacerations Frey would have endured for making that sort of
boast.

Though sales have now soared, I'm not sure how many people will read Night
now, beyond buying the new edition as a gesture of solidarity with Oprah and
survivors of the Holocaust. It doesn't take a background in literary
criticism to see that Night is artfully fashioned as a kind of symbolic
narrative about the relationship between sons and fathers (there are four
such portraits in the short book) and, crucially, between the Christian God
(the Father) and his Son. The style seems influenced by Albert Camus,
particularly L'Etranger. Camus won the Nobel Prize for literature in 1957,
one of the youngest recipients ever. This was the time during which Wiesel
was reworking his Yiddish narrative into the far more terse, Camusian work,
with its Camusian title.

As a piece of historical witness to the experience of the inmates, the
doomed and those who survived inside Auschwitz and Buchenwald, there are
books far superior to Night, starting with Primo Levi's writings, or the
late Ella Lingens-Reiner's extraordinary memoir of Auschwitz, Prisoners of
Fear, published in 1948. Night's focus is extremely narrow, primarily on the
main character, Eliezer, and his father. One learns with a certain surprise
that though Wiesel's sister Tzipora died in the camps, two other sisters
survived. In the new edition, Wiesel doesn't mention them.

Night certainly contains none of the context offered by Levi or
Lingens-Reiner, or much more rfecently, by Kenneth Waltzer, professor of
Jewish Studies at Michigan State University, who is writing a book called
The Rescue of Children at Buchenwald and whose interesting letter was
published in Forward at the end of February:

"The January 20 article on Oprah Winfrey's selection of Elie Wiesel's
Night for her Book Club was on the mark ('Six Million Little Pieces?'). Any
memoir is a reconstruction shaped by purpose and audience rather than a
direct statement of memory -- and even Wiesel's Night is not an exception.

"Night focuses primarily on the relation of father and son in Auschwitz
and in Buchenwald. When Wiesel loses his father in January 1945 at
Buchenwald, he drifts into a listlessness and fog from which he emerged only
after liberation. He recalls in Night only the terrible final days of the
camp, in April 1945, when the Nazis sought to evacuate Jewish prisoners and
then all prisoners.

"Wiesel writes of his relation with his father, the presence of God, and
his own survival and its meaning. He does not describe the social context in
which he existed during the final months. The barracks, his place in the
camp, his relation to others -- other prisoners, Jews, boys -- remain murky.

"What is omitted in Night is that the 16-year-old was placed in a special
barracks created by the clandestine underground as part of a strategy of
saving youth. Block 66 was located in the deepest part of the
disease-infested little camp and beyond the normal Nazi S.S. gaze. It was
overseen by Czech Communist Antonin Kalina and by his deputy, Gustav
Schiller, a Polish Jewish Communist.

"Schiller, who appears briefly in Night, was a rough father figure and
mentor, especially for the Polish-Jewish boys and many Czech-Jewish boys;
but he was less liked, and even feared, by Hungarian- and Romanian-Jewish
boys, especially religious boys, including Wiesel. He appears in Night as a
distant figure, armed with a truncheon.

"After January 1945, the underground concentrated all children and youth
that could be fit into this windowless barracks -- more than 600 in total.
Younger children were protected elsewhere. When the U.S. Third Army arrived
April 11, 1945, more than 900 children and youth were found among 21,000
remaining prisoners.

"Wiesel since has acknowledged the role played by the clandestine
underground but did not attend to it in Night. Fellow barracks members
recall being protected from work and getting extra food. They recall efforts
by their mentors to raise their horizons. They also recall heroic
intervention by Kalina or by Schiller during the final days to protect them.

"Even then, many boys were lined up at the gate, to be led out April 10.
However, American planes flew overhead, sirens sounded, the guards ran and
Kalina, who was with them, ordered the boys back to the barracks. They were
still in the barracks the next day when units of the U.S. Third Army broke
through the barbed-wire fences.

"Wiesel's Night is about becoming alone. But Wiesel was also among
hundreds of children and youth aided by a purposeful effort at rescue inside
a concentration camp."

Forward slightly trimmed Waltzer's contribution, from an article to a
letter. In the fuller version, which he has kindly supplied, Professor
Waltzer wrote his last paragraph as follows:

"In Night, Wiesel writes about viewing himself in the mirror after
liberation and seeing a corpse gazing back at him. But another picture taken
after liberation shows Wiesel marching out of the camp, fourth on the left,
among a phalanx of youth, moving together, heads high, a group guided by
prisoners who had helped save them."

A photograph accompanying Waltzer's text, credited to Jack Werber, of Great
Neck, New York, shows exactly that. The young Wiesel's head is high, like
the others'. But this parable of a triumph for human solidarity was
absolutely contrary to the parable Wiesel was set on rewriting in French
from the Yiddish volume. In the late 1950s a man with instincts as finely
tuned as Wiesel's to useful frequencies on the political dial probably would
not have thought it advantageous to dwell on the heroic role of Communists
in the death camps. All the more is this true in recent years, when Wiesel's
most celebrated moments have come when hunkering down for sessions of
amiable moral counsel with Ronald Reagan (who wanted to pretend that the SS
should be retrospectively forgiven because, after all, they weren't
Communists and fought the Great Satan) and George Bush, on whom Wiesel urged
the war on Iraq as a necessary moral act, declaring that "the world faced a
moral crisis similar to 1938" and "the choice is simple".

This is not the first time bombing has elicited an endorsement from the
great moral standard-bearer. In 1999, as NATO's bombs descended on
Yugoslavia, blowing up civilians on train or bus, as well as journalists in
their broadcasting studio, Wiesel was questioned by Wolf Blitzer on CNN's
Larry King Live. Declared one government toady to another: "I think it [the
bombing] had to be done, because all the other options had been explored."
This balderdash put Wiesel, morally speaking, on a par with Cardinal
Spellman, blessing the B-52s as they set off to drop napalm on children in
the Vietnam era.

For a decidedly irreverent assessment of Night's merits On February 10,
2006, Candian tv viewers were able, in February, to watch and hear the
former editor of Harper's magazine, Lewis Lapham, delivering a lecture at
the University of Ottawa, on the invitation of the university's Graduate
Students Association. Lapham's lecture, entitled "The Politicization of
Research," was carried on C-PAC, Canada's parliamentary TV channel, several
times in the days that followed. In the Q and A session after the lecture,
in response to an enquiry about the decline in the quality of ediucation,
Lapham replied:

"I have had three children; my youngest is now 25, my eldest is 32. They
all went through a very high-end American both secondary schools and
colleges. And the syllabus of books that they were given in the English
courses were terrible. I mean, they were all tracts

"There was a big fuss about Oprah Winfrey and the James Frey book, and
she's now going to put on [her TV show] Elie Wiesel's Night. This is really
one of the worst books I have ever read, and I've had to read it three times
to my three children; and it's junk. But it's the kind of junk that has
become very de rigeur in American universities. It's a propaganda poster.
With the kind of books the kids are given to read, I mean, it would turn
them off books forever. No wonder! Because they are being given tracts. And,
the big subject of course is victimology."

One of the perennially fascinating things about Wiesel is the preternatural
alertness of his antennae for the opportune audience, his sense of what
will, so to speak, "play" usefully for him. This brings us, by way of Eli
Pfefferkorn, to Francois Mauriac.

These days Eli Pfefferkorn, age 77, lives in Toronto. A man, on the evidence
of several phone conversations, of alert intelligence and charm, he too is a
concentration camp survivor. Originally from Poland, he spent seven weeks in
Maidanek, then in three labor camps, then in Buchenwald, then in Rehmsdorf.
Near the end of the war he endured a death march to Theresienstadt in
Moravia, where the surviving inmates were liberated by the Red Army on May
8, 1945. Pfefferkorn's parents perished in other camps, and he tells me he
owes his life to his mother, who shook his hand loose from hers when the
family was about to be deported, and told the 13-year-old boy to scram.

Pfefferkorn eventually came to the United States, taught, and spent some
time working with Wiesel on the conceptual design of the Holocaust museum.
Once an uncritical admirer, his present estimate of Wiesel is not favorable,
and he sets his views forth at length in a fascinating manuscript he is
preparing to submit to publishers. He was kind enough to send me some
chapters. By no means short-changing Wiesel on what he regards as his
genuine achievements, Pfefferkorn can be unsparing: "He's become a eulogist
of the dead but he doesn't raise his mellifluous voice against the wrong
done to survivors, 35 per cent of them below the poverty line in the US."

There are piercing passages in Pfefferkorn's memoir concerning Wiesel's
opportunism and betrayals in the murky battles over the design of the
Holocaust Museum, and above all in his artful pursuit of the Nobel Peace
Prize, which he was awarded in 1986. "Would Wiesel, Pfefferkorn asks, "ever
have received this prize for his work as a journalist?" Pfefferkorn answers
his question, "It's hard to imagine. No. Wiesel got the prize because he
elevated himself as the spokesman for the survivors. His mostly absurd
pretensions to be a 'peace missionary', had nothing to do with it."

Then, once he had the prize he so fiercely pursued, Wiesel gradually, but
consistently--so Pfefferkorn stresses--"alienated himself from the
survivors".

In Night, Pfefferkorn isolates a number of episodes in which he makes a
convincing case that Wiesel dumped truth in favor of fiction. The two I cite
here involve a boy playing a violin amidst a death march, and the second is
one of Night's most famous scenes, the hanging of three inmates.

Of the first episode, Pfefferkorn writes:

"The story of the 'violin episode' takes place during the death march from
Auschwitz to Buchenwald with a short gap at Gleiwitz in January of 1945.
Mercilessly driven by the SS guards, stragglers were shot at and shoved to
the side road. The columns of inmates arrived in Gleiwitz, after having
dragged themselves through the snow-swept roads in freezing temperatures for
about fifty kilometers. Immediately upon arrival, they were herded into
barns. Drained, they dropped to the floor -- the dead, the dying and the
partially living piled one on the other.

"Under this heap of crushed humanity laid Juliek, cradling a violin, which
he has carried all the way from Auschwitz to Gleiwitz. Eliezer, somehow,
stumbles on Juliek, "...the boy from Warsaw who played in the band at
Buna... 'How do you feel, Juliek?' I asked, less to know the answer than to
hear that he could speak, that he was alive. 'All right, Eliezer ... I'm
getting on all right ... hardly any air ... worn out. My feet are swollen.
It's good to rest, but my violin...'

"Eliezer -- the inmate -- wonders, 'What use was the violin here?'
Wiesel -- the memoirist -- does not find it necessary to give an answer to
the question. Such an answer, I assume, should be of interest to the reader
for if Wiesel were to provide an answer, the veracity of the story would
dissolve like the morning mist in the Sinai desert. Maintaining hold on a
violin as one marched the March of Death is highly improbable. However, a
violin in the midst of human debris strains the imagination and questions
memory. How did Juliek hold on to the violin on the death journey? Deprived
of food and drink, when each step stubbornly refused to follow the next one,
how did Juliek manage to clutch the violin in his numb fingers, let alone
play Beethoven on it? Would the SS escorts have let him keep it?

"And from this anus mundi, suddenly the melody of a Beethoven concerto is
heard, wafting through the corpses, the groans of the dying, the stench of
the dead. Eliezer had never heard sounds so pure. 'In such a silence. It was
pitch dark. I could only hear the violin, it was though Juliek's soul were
the bow. He was playing his life. The whole life was gliding on his
strings -- his lost hopes, his charred past, his extinguished future. He
played as he would never play again.' This powerful and emotionally moving
scene, celebrating the triumph of the human spirit over the grinding SS
machinery is the very stuff that heroic fiction is made of. But is it a
memoir factually recorded? Obviously, Wiesel's putative memoir, written
while on a boat to Brazil, is but a recollection of experiences seen through
the eye of his creative imagination. And yet, the melancholy melodies that
came out of Juliek's violin were the first strains of a myth orchestrated by
Wiesel and his disciples, over a period of thirty years."

A major scene in Night, one that contributed hugely to the book's success in
the West, and its impact on many Christians starting with Francois Mauriac,
was the execution of three inmates in the Buna work camp. As Pfefferkorn
writes, "The fascination of Christian theologians with the Wiesel phenomenon
must be traced back to a hanging that the 16-year-old Eliezer witnessed in
Auschwitz."

In the incident, two adults and a little boy are being led to the gallows.
The little boy refused to betray fellow inmates who have been involved in an
act of sabotage; to protect his fellow inmates, the boy is willing to pay
with his life. Each one climbs to his chair and his neck is slipped into the
rope's noose. The scene continues as follows in the 1960 English version of
Night:

"The three victims mounted together onto the chairs. The three necks were
placed at the same moment within the nooses. 'Long live Liberty!' cried the
adults. But the child was silent.

"'Where is God? Where is He?' someone behind me asked. At a sign from the
head of the camp, the three chairs tipped over. Total silence throughout the
camp. On the horizon, the sun was setting.

"'Bare your heads!' yelled the head of the camp. His voice was raucous. We
were weeping. 'Cover your heads!' Then the march past began. The two adults
were no longer alive. Their tongues hung swollen, blue tinged. But the third
rope was still moving; being so light, the child was still alive.... For
more than half an hour he stayed there, struggling between life and death,
dying in slow agony under our eyes. And we had to look him full in the face.
He was still alive when I passed in front of him. His tongue was still red,
his eyes not yet glazed. Behind me, I heard the same man asking: 'Where is
God now?' And I heard a voice within me answer him: 'Where is He? Here He
is -- He is hanging here on this gallows'"

Not surprisingly, the graphically described hanging scene has been etched
into the imagination of the Christian theologians because of the numerous
parallels to the Crucifixion of Jesus.

Now, while he was working on the memoir, La Nuit, Wiesel had cause, on
behalf of an Israeli newspaper, to visit and interview Francois Mauriac, the
Catholic writer and Nobel Laureate in literature. They got on well. Then
Wiesel gave him the manuscript of La Nuit. Mauriac found in it an answer to
his own anguish at descriptions of the mass slaughters in the death camps,
particularly of children.

Mauriac fastened instantly on, in Pfefferkorn's words, "a resemblance
between the crucifixion and Wiesel's description of the young boy's hanging.
In response to Wiesel's questioning of God's benevolence and man's
humanness, Mauriac writes the following in his Foreword to Night: 'And I,
who believe that God is love, what answer could I give my young questioner,
whose dark eyes still held the reflection of that angelic sadness which had
appeared one day upon the face of the hanged child? What did I say to him?
Did I speak of that other Israeli, his brother, who may have resembled
him -- the Crucified, whose Cross has conquered the world?'"

Pfefferkorn continues:

"The hanged child dangling on the rope is reflected in Eliezer's eyes,
whose image resembles that of the crucified Jesus. Thus in one stroke,
Mauriac has drawn a triptych reminiscent of the medieval paintings, making
young Eliezer the link connecting the two watershed events in the history of
Western civilization, namely the Crucifixion and the Holocaust. Mauriac
leaves no doubt as to his Christological interpretation of the Auschwitz
hanging. In the year 1960, he published a biography of Christ entitled The
Son of Man dedicated to 'E.W. who was a crucified Jewish child, who stands
for many others.'

"Mauriac explains what it was in his interview with Wiesel that drew him
so powerfully to the young Israeli: 'That look, as if a Lazarus risen from
the dead, yet still a prisoner within the grim confines where he had
strayed, stumbling among the shameful corpses.' Wiesel's painfully gaunt
demeanor set against the backdrop of the concentration camps' corpses have
inspired a generation of Christian theologians to view Wiesel as a latter
day Lazarus.

"It is highly speculative to suggest that from the very inception of his
writing, Wiesel consciously laboured to present himself to the Christian
world as a composite of a Christ Lazarus figure. However, once the seeds of
the myth were sown in Paris at Mauriac's instigation, and took roots in the
soil of Christian America, Wiesel has done his share to encourage the
'Lazarus risen from the dead parallel.' But Wiesel has done so more by
gesture than act, silence than utterance, indirection than direct statement.
The unspoken, the mute, the covert are his metier; albeit an ambiguity laced
through with shrewd intelligence that would make many a professional
diplomat envious."

In a letter to David Hirsch dated October 6, 1994, Alfred Kazin writes that
at the beginning of their friendship, "I liked him [Wiesel] enormously, and
I was in awe of him because of his suffering in Auschwitz." But at the same
time "... it was impossible, when he expanded at length about his
experiences under the Nazis, it was impossible to miss the fact that he was
a mystifier".

One who says he directly observed the hanging scene described by Wiesel was
Zygfryd Halbereich, who testified at the Auschwitz State Museum on October
19, 1973. Halbereich's testimony was matter-of-fact, clear and direct. He
was acquainted with the three inmates and knew about their escape plans.

"On the whole," Pfefferkorn writes, "Halbereich's testimony is in agreement
with Wiesel's narrative, and differs only in one minor detail. But this is
an inconsequential disagreement that does not change the substance of the
hanging story. What does affect it, however, is the age of one of the
condemned, as given by Wiesel. And the age of the condemned is the crux of
the matter.

"In the original Yiddish Un di Velt Hot Geshvign and in the French and the
English translations, one of the three condemned is frequently referred to
as a child or a young boy. Halbereich is silent about the ages of the
condemned, and this omission is surprising. For in Wiesel's painfully
elaborate description of the hanging, the young boy's execution stirred up
deep emotions among the inmates standing on the roll call. The Kapo who was
assigned to administer the hanging ' excused himself from serving as a
hangman. He did not want to hang a child.' A Kapo's refusal to obey an SS
order was tantamount to a death sentence. His extraordinary behaviour would
have certainly registered with Halbereich, whose testimony is meticulously
detailed. Halbereich's silence on the Kappo's courage calls into question
Wiesel's account of the hanging. One of the skeptics is the known Holocaust
scholar Raul Hilberg, who is, in his own words, a seeker of truth.

"Cautious by temperament and scholarly discipline, Hilberg gingerly raises
the issue related to the hanging scene. In a review written for the Boston
Globe about Wiesel's autobiographical book All Rivers Run to the Sea,
Hilberg makes mention of the three hangings. 'Describing the incident in his
[Wiesel's] book Night,' Hilberg notes, 'he recalled someone behind him
asking: Where is God? At that moment Wiesel believed that one of the three
was a boy, and in his mind identified the child with God.' Citing Kazin's
contention that the entire event is fiction, Hilberg concludes, 'To be sure,
the doubters may claim a concession.'"

Pfefferkorn's considered judgement is harsh on Wiesel's claims for the
absolute truth to life of Night:

"If the hanging scene turns out contrary to Wiesel's description in his
purported memoir Night, a fictionalized episode as Kazin claimed and
surmised from Halbereich's testimony, then Wiesel's entire moral and
theological edifice collapses, bringing down with it the 'Suffering Servant'
theology, which first gave him recognition and eventually led him to fame.

"Though it is virtually impossible to verify the exact ages of the
condemned, it must be noted, as Hilberg observed, that in Wiesel's recent
autobiography 'the suffering body is no longer that of a boy.'"

Quite aside from the theological questions, part of the impact of the scene
derives from Wiesel's description of this boy whose weight was too
insubstantial for the noose to swiftly strangle him. Does this, in the last
analysis, really matter? It does if you are disobligingly contrasting Frey
to Wiesel's "apprehension of memory as a sacred act". All the same, I don't
suppose Smoking Gun would ever gleefully feature the third victim's birth
certificate.

After talking to Eli Pfferkorn and reading chapters from his memoir, I
called Raul Hilberg, now 80, at his home in Burlington, Vermont.

"From a purely academic viewpoint", Hilberg began, "it would be interesting
to have a scholarly edition, comparing the Yiddish version with subsequent
translations and editions, with appropriate footnotes, Wiesel's comments
etc. He was addressing two entirely different audiences, the first being the
Yiddish-speaking Jews, members of the world of his youth whom he addressed
in nineteenth-century terms. There's more detail, more comment. I made that
suggestion to Wiesel and he didn't react favorably."

Hilberg turned to the crucial scene: "I have a version of the hanging from
an old survivor with the names of all three adults." That survivor had said
that there was no boy among the three. Hilberg mentioned this in a review of
Night, in which, he told me, "I made no secret of our differences. But
whereas it [the age of the central figure in the hanging] may seem somewhat
small, it makes a very big difference to Christians, particularly Catholics,
because it's very clear that mystics are intensely interested in the scene
because it seems to replicate the crucifixion. It made a considerable
impact. So the fact that this figure may not have been a boy at all is
disturbing."

"It would appear", Hilberg went on, "from the record I have, that some
witnesses have questioned whether this scene took place at all. I have a
long statement by an older man, a man whom I judge to be quite trustworthy,
though one must always remember that things are sometimes observed or heard
about later. I talked recently to a survivor of that section of the camp who
said it [the hanging of the three] didn't take place, but maybe it took
place earlier. I don't know. Dating these tings is hard for survivors. Some
have doubted this would have taken place. Buna was a work camp, so this
other survivor, a PhD in history and a very intelligent man, didn't believe
it. I said to him, 'How do you know this didn't happen?' I consider it not
only a possibility but plausible. But age is a big issue to some people.
That's something he did not discuss in the new edition of the book."

"Wiesel's is the most read of all Auschwitz memoirs", Hilberg remarked, "not
only because of its brevity but because it has something mystic,
surrealistic in it." He mentioned the episode of the little boy playing the
violin, and said how it evoked images from the Russian-Jewish mystic painter
Chagall, also of Fiddler on the Roof.

"Wiesel comes from Sighet, a city in Romania. In Sighet there were many
religious Jews, also Ukrainians. Much of Sighet was rather primitive at the
time Wiesel was growing up. Most roads were not paved. It was shtetl life.
However an assimilated group of Jews was emerging. I went there when I was
11, in 1937, and spent the summer. There was a tennis court, very
middle-class. My aunt and her husband, a Sigheti, manufactured violins in
Sighet where there was a major tradition of violin playing. I heard quartets
in our garden. Wiesel's parents had a store. So in some respects Sighet was
very nineteenth century, and in others there were all the earmarks of a
group of Jews emerging into the twentieth century who were evidently wide
awake to modern civilization. So was the violin scene realistic, or was it a
fantasy? Certainly, for Jews the violin was the instrument of choice. It was
portable.

"So I would not say that the violin scene is impossible, even though I know
someone from the death march who said it was utterly impossible. He was in
Auschwitz, also Wiesel's age. But that still doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Nothing is inconceivable.

"The model of all survivor accounts is of an idyllic childhood, then the
hell of the Holocaust, then since they survived they underline the fact that
it was only by luck they survived. With Wiesel, his original title was And
the World Was Silent. It's accusatory. Night is more surreal and mystic. It
goes back to Middle Ages. Wiesel fits right into that style. It's not a
novel, but what it does have is the imprint of someone who wants to leave
behind the impression that if you weren't there, you cannot know what it was
like, but then that dooms trying to write what it was like."

I asked Hilberg what accounts of the death camps and the Holocaust did he
admire most. "That really depends on the reader. I don't have that kind of
favorite. For my purposes, obviously they have to be correct. There's an
account by Filip Mueller, who was on the gas chamber detail in Auschwitz in
1942, written in collaboration with two people: Eyewitness Auschwitz. It has
to be read with care. Another book is Rudolf Vrba's I Cannot Forgive,
written with Alan Bestic. Vrba escaped from Auschwitz. He became professor
of pharmacology at the University of British Columbia. This is the most
remarkable of survivors, a man of absolutely incredible energy and
abilities. In sheer ability to cope with the situation, this man is beyond
belief."

I didn't press the point, but Hilberg, who stressed to me that he admires
Wiesel, did not include Night in this little list. A clue to this omission
may be found in Hilberg's often acrid memoir, The Politics of Memory,
published in 1996. In the chapter "Questionable Practices", notable for a
devastating account of underhand behavior by Hannah Arendt, Hilberg
discusses "areas of inappropriateness or illegitimacy". "I try to nod wisely
when when poets or novelists step forward with their art, which in its very
nature is much less disguised than mine. Nor am I disturbed when
popularizers of history excavate the monographs of the footnote writers
[among whom Hilberg included himself] and, distilling the contents,
highlight story and drama for a large reading public.There are, however,
limits Among the practices that give me discomfort is the creation of a
story in which historical facts are altered deliberately for the sake of
plot and adventure"

Then a page later Hilberg continues, "If counterfactual stories are frequent
enough, kitsch is truly rampant The philistines in my field are truly
everywhere. I am surrounded by the commonplace, platitudes, and clichés.The
first German publisher of a small volume, containing my introduction and
documents about the railroads [viz. their role in the destruction of the
Jews] inserted a poem for which, he said, he had paid good money, describing
human beings in freight cars including children whose eyes glowed like coal
. The manipulation of history is a kind of spoilage and kitsch is
debasement."

Reading those lines, my mind did go at once to some of the scenes in
Night--Juliek playing his violin on the death march for example--which hover
on the edge of kitsch or, to take a less forgiving view, plunge into it.

"In 1981", Pfefferkorn remembers, "Wiesel invited me to give a talk to his
seminar students at Boston University. In the course of my talk, I discussed
the relationship between memory and imagination in a number of literary
works. I then pointed out the literary devices he used in Night, devices, I
stressed, that make the memoir a compelling read. Wiesel's reaction to my
comments were swift as lightning. I had never seen him as angry before or
since. In the presence of John Silber, the then President of Boston
University, and my own Brown University students whom I invited, he lost his
composure, lashing out at me for daring to question the literalness of the
memoir. In Wiesel's eyes, as in the eyes of his disciples, Night assumed a
level of sacrosanctity, next in importance to the giving of the Torah at Mt.
Sinai. In terms of veracity, it is a factually recorded work, virtually
meeting Leopold von Ranke's benchmark of historical accounts: Wie es
eigentlich gewessen, how it really was."

As he roosts on his pile of gold amid the abuse of Oprah and the literary
world, Frey can comfort himself with the thought that Night is not how "it
really was", and that even though there is a vast gulf between what Wiesel
actually endured and Frey's lies about his own life, when it comes making
literature he and Wiesel were both in the business of artistic and emotional
manipulation, of dressing fiction up as truth.

As Pfefferkorn stresses, you didn't survive in the death camps just by luck.
"Securing a spot in a desirable labor detail, for instance, involved shoving
to the head of the line, seen as a risk worth taking. Upon encountering
opposition, however, one had to know when to retreat into the
chameleon-pyjama-like background of the concentration camp. This was also
true about lining up for soup. Finding the right spot in the line could mean
a thicker bowl of soup -which may add a week's longevity, but this entailed
rough elbowing, as well as timing."

Pfefferkorn says now that one of the greatest disappointments of his life
was Wiesel's "betrayal"--Pfefferkorn's word" of the survivors. Looking at
the man's career overall, I'd say that as a moral fabulist, Wiesel has far
more than Frey to answer for. Should not Oprah ask him about the millions he
could have helped with the moral stature won by the Nobel peace prize he so
unrelentingly campaigned for wsith his rough elbows, but whom he has
betrayed for reasons of base political calculation?

Although the Nobel committee extolled him as a "messenger to mankind" it is
difficult to find examples of Wiesel sending any message on behalf of those
victimized by the policies of the United States, and virtually impossible
when it comes to victims of Israel.

Wiesel's pusillanimity was well illustrated in an interview with The
National Jewish Post & Opinion for November 19, 1982. Asked about the
massacre of Palestinians at Sabra and Shatila, he said he felt "sad". Lest
anyone leap to the erroneous conclusion that Wiesel was at last expressing
sadness for the victims of Israel's invasion -- he remained silent
throughout the bombing of Beirut -- Wiesel added that this sadness was "with
Israel, and not against Israel". As he put it, "After all, the Israeli
soldiers did not kill". He also writes, in Against Silence, vol 2, "Would it
not have been better to have offered Israel unreserved support, regardless
of the suffering endured by the population of Beirut."

In 1985, Wiesel was asked by a reporter from Ha'aretz about Israel's aid to
the military junta in Guatemala. By way of response Wiesel remarked that he
had received a letter from a Nobel laureate (Salvador Luria of M.I.T. had
written to him on this subject a month earlier) documenting Israel's
contributions to mass murder in Guatemala and urging Wiesel to act privately
to pressure Israel. Wiesel "sighed", the Ha'aretz reporter wrote, and said,
"I usually answer at once, but what can I answer him."

Wiesel could, I suppose, argue that a sigh constitutes a technical breach of
silence, but why did he not go further?

In an interview published in the second volume of Against Silence, Wiesel
says that, as a Diaspora Jew, the "price I chose to pay for not living in
Israel . . . is not to criticize Israel from outside its borders." In
another interview, published in the London Jewish Chronicle for September
10, 1982, he lamented criticism of Israel during the Lebanon invasion and
asked these rhetorical questions:

"Was it necessary to criticize the Israeli government, notwithstanding the
spate of lies disseminated in the press? Or would it not have been better to
have offered Israel unreserved support, regardless of the suffering endured
by the population of Beirut? In the face of hatred, our love for Israel
ought to have deepened, become more whole-hearted, and our faith in Israel
more compelling, more true."

It's unclear how many times, if any, Wiesel has ventured criticism inside
Israel's borders. Wiesel himself mentions one occasion on which he exerted
what is usually called quiet pressure.

Commentary on Wiesel in the Hebrew-language press in Israel following the
award of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986 was been more robust than the
statutory honorifics printed in the United States. In Davar, for example, a
reporter named Miri Paz discussed the troubled course of a conference on
holocaust and genocide held in Israel in the summer of 1982. Responding to
the urgings of the Turkish government, the Israeli Foreign Ministry demanded
the removal of six items on the agenda concerning the Armenian genocide.
Several people on the conference's organizing committee, including its
chair, Professor Israel Charny, refused to bend to such interference. But
Wiesel, who headed the conference, did weaken. He pulled out of the
conference, explaining, in Paz's words, that "as a Jew he cannot act against
the government of Israel".

In Koteret Rashit, a liberal weekly, the Israeli journalist Tom Segev wrote
of Wiesel:

"He is always careful not to criticize his nation. . . . What does he have
to say about the situation in the territories? When people from Peace Now
asked him to criticize the Lebanese War he evaded the request. He's never
been in the habit of standing up seriously against Israeli leaders. . . .
What in fact has he done to realize his fine intentions? Bob Geldof has done
more. . . . How nice it would have been if they had divided the prize among
those truly good people of the world, those still alive, those people who
endangered their lives at the time of the Holocaust in order to save Jews.

"Who symbolizes the lesson of the Holocaust as they do?

"Who is as worthy of the respect of the world as they are?"

Footnote: An earlier version of this article appeared in the CounterPunch
newsletter, #3/4, in February of this year.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SEX CRIME COUNTS AGAINST 10 CHRISTIAN PRIESTS IN ONE TOWN ALONE
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5a62fc036260cb35
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 9:07 pm
From: usenet@mantra.comd7r and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

ARCHDIOCESE AUDIT

10 priests accused in 2005

By Ken Thorbourne
Journal Staff Writer
The Jersey Journal
Saturday, April 1, 2006

An independent audit has found 12 allegations of sexual
misconduct against 10 priests in the Roman Catholic
Archdiocese of Newark last year.

The audit, performed by the Gavin Group of Boston, was
part of a national campaign by the U.S. Conference of
Catholic Bishops to make sure allegations of sexual
misconduct are immediately referred to prosecutors.

The Archdiocese - which covers Hudson, Bergen, Passaic
and Union counties - was found to be "fully compliant" in
its efforts to protect young people from sexual predators
last year, church officials announced yesterday.

That means all allegations were referred to prosecutors
and hundreds of priests and other diocesan employees
underwent training on sexual abuse prevention, said James
Goodness, a spokesman for the Archdiocese.

The Archdiocese would not release the names of the 10
priests.

Goodness said that five of them were deceased by the time
the allegations were brought forward so a full inquiry
wasn't possible.

Three were permanently removed as priests following
investigations by the Archdiocese Review Board, he said.
One had resigned from the priesthood years before the
allegations were lodged and one returned to the
priesthood after he was cleared by the Review Board and
the prosecutor's office found no basis to pursue criminal
charges, Goodness said.

Goodness said he was not sure if the 10 includes
Monsignor Peter Cheplic, who retired last month following
accusations of sexual misconduct made by three men.

Cheplic, 60, who most recently worked at St. Henry's
Church in Bayonne, also worked at St. Aloysius in Jersey
City, St. Joseph of the Palisades in West New York, and
St. Lawrence in Weehawken.

More at:
http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1143886631260790.xml&coll=3

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stalin vs. Jews
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/33b65b8e64582886
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:58 pm
From: "Tilly"

serwad wrote:
> "dave" <david_lawrence_petry@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1143933204.127245.42490@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > In a recent episode of the "Declassified" series on the History
> > Channel dealing with Stalin, it was asserted that Stalin killed
> > more Jews than Hitler. I'm quite sure I heard that right. They
> > didn't just say "more people", they said "more Jews". They didn't
> > go into any detail, like giving actual figures.
> >
> > Is it possibly true?
> That is a lie!

Even you know Alex that your statement 'It's a lie' is a lie.
You have claimed to have read 'The Gulag Archipelago' etc.. on many
occasions.

The only Jew Stalin killed is his own wife Svetlana,

Oh you mean ther only person he has killed directly was Svetlana. His orders
to kill don't count?

> Jews ruled Russia for 40 years, jews ruled all of the gulags, jews
> murdered the Szar Nicholas and his wife and children in the most
> gruesome way. jews slaughtered 40 mkembers of my own family in Posad
> Pokrovskoe, by shooting them in the back of the head, including the
> babes in arms,women and other children. May they rot in hell!

Usual BS from Alex.

--
TillyGr@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jews Celebrate the Murder of Jesus
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c7575ce359400ed7
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 8:59 pm
From: "Tilly"

Salah Jafar wrote:
> Being the true Christians that we are, Landover members have turned a
> blind eye to the filthy Jewish cult for some time. We have allowed
> the Yids to practice their pagan rituals in Freehold without
> objection. Jews cite holiday after holiday, none of which find any
> support in the Bible, as an excuse to avoid work. "Every time I
> telephone my accountant, it seems he's out of the office for some
> heathen celebration," noted Brother Harry Hardwick, honorary Landover
> pastor. "It's either 'Yom' this or 'Rosha' that. I no longer even
> question this because just listening to him pronounce the names is
> painful to the ears."
>
> Landover's complacency is ending, now that church members have
> learned what happened last year at Christmas-time. "When people told
> me Jews were celebrating that Chewbacca thing, right around the
> birthday of our Lord, I just assumed it was another attempt to mock
> Christians," recalled a concerned Pastor Deacon Fred. "I figured
> they're going to burn in Hell anyway, so why should we care? I had
> no idea of the evil that goes on in those Christ-killers' homes."
>
> The discovery occurred last year when Brother Harry and his lovely
> wife, Heather, attended a December banquet at the home of a Jew. "My
> lawyer sent an invitation to a dinner in honor of 'Hanukkah,'" noted
> Brother Harry. "I had no idea what that was but thought nothing of
> it. After all, those Jews will celebrate anything. They declare a
> holiday at the drop of a hat. If one of them finds a nickel on the
> ground, the whole neighborhood parties for eight days. My lawyer had
> just gotten some frivolous RICO charges dropped, so I felt obligated
> to attend. Anyway, I just assumed they were celebrating some little
> boy getting his foreskin chopped off, so we RSVP'd."
>
> "It was awful," noted a still distraught Mrs. Hardwick. "When we
> arrived at the house, there were Hell-bound Jews everywhere. You
> must understand that I'd never been in an unsaved person's car, much
> less home, so I didn't know what to expect. I grew up on the Lord's
> word, so I know how scurrilous Christ-killers are, but even my worst
> nightmares of Jewry could never have prepared me for being in one of
> their horrible houses. It is no wonder that we are told in Paul's
> wonderful First Epistle to the Thessalonians that Jews are
> displeasing to the Lord. You should see how they decorate! And
> there were so many of them, I could barely get enough oxygen. Our
> host insisted on introducing us to all of them. Everyone was 'what
> you ma call it-berg' or 'who's it-stein.' And each of them wished me
> a 'Happy Hanukkah.' After a while, I learned to duck every time they
> sprayed the word 'Hanukkah.' By the time we left, the top of my
> dress looked as though I had recently delivered a baby. For the
> first time in my life, I found myself wishing there were Arabs in
> Freehold."
>
> The Hardwicks were shocked to learn that Hanukkah is a celebration of
> the Jews' brutal murder of our Savior and their compact with Lucifer,
> himself. "We might as well have dined with Satan-worshipers," noted
> Brother Harry. "I now know that 'Hanukkah' is Hebrew for 'Death of
> the Lord.' They first brought out these collections of candles on
> poles. I knew instantly the objects represented the Jews' hatred of
> Christ. The candles were joined together to form the shape of the
> devil's pitchfork. Those Jews delighted in lighting a candle for
> every time Jesus screamed in pain on the cross their forefathers
> made. When they finished, the fully candle-lit home was the clearest
> replica of Hell I have ever seen. I was sick to my stomach and ready
> to leave, but Heather was famished, so we stayed."
>
> The next ritual was the opening of presents. "Those poor children
> got almost nothing," noted Mrs. Hardwick. "Just little trinkets.
> The most substantive gift they received were little pieces of
> chocolate wrapped in foil to resemble gold coins. I know those
> people are stingy and cheap, but this was ridiculous." Brother Harry
> had a different take on the gifts. "The gold coins symbolize the
> Jews' love of money. The children are taught by example to collect
> as much of our money as they can and to save it until the day they
> can stage a takeover of the world's financial institutions, like the
> time they caused the Great Depression. That's when we'll know the
> End Times are here."
>
> The Hardwicks were next told it was time to play games. "After all
> that had transpired, I certainly wasn't surprised to learn that the
> game they wanted to play involved gambling," observed Brother Harry.
> "Gambling-Satan's ultimate tool. Someone brought out a four-sided
> top that those Jews would spin on the ground. Each player collected
> a certain amount from the pot based on which side the top landed.
> And children actually participated! I half-expected them next to
> bring out a roulette wheel and three or four hookers. Needless to
> stay, I slammed my foot on that thing until it had shattered into a
> thousand pieces. Some of the Jesus-slayers looked at me strangely,
> so I said, 'You stomp on drinking glasses for no good reason whereas
> I stamp out sin in the Lord's name.'"
>
> Just as the Hardwicks were about to storm out of that house, dinner
> was served. "The food was absolutely dreadful and more proof of
> their Satanic ways," noted Mrs. Hardwick. "Everything was fried,
> undoubtedly to symbolize the frying performed by their master in
> Hell. Granted, I've never had an aversion to deep-fried food, but
> they fried everything, even bread. And to serve jelly doughnuts and
> pancakes for dinner is truly the sign of a classless cult. When I
> asked for some maple syrup, they actually looked surprised, then
> handed me sour cream instead. How insulting, not to mention bizarre!
> I suspect that even the Moonies aren't that peculiar or rude. When I
> learned the batter for the flapjacks was made of potato, I had been
> through quite enough and was ready for some rebuking."
>
> Mrs. Hardwick engaged in a concerted effort to save as many Jews as
> she could once the desserts were gone. "I knew every remaining
> moment we had in this Hell-house was a praise-filled opportunity to
> bring these pathetic lost souls to Christ. When the hostess asked if
> I would like coffee, in front of her entire living room, I politely
> replied, 'Ruth, honey, unlike you, I don't need to fill my empty life
> with a cheap caffeine buzz. You see, when you have the Holy Spirit
> running through your veins, you don't need artificial highs. But you
> wouldn't know that, now would you? Because you are just a sad little
> unsaved Jew. I think I'll just get high on the Blood of the Lamb and
> skip the coffee, dear.'" The Hardwicks were compelled to leave
> shortly thereafter. "Those Jews had this look in their eyes that
> made me think, 'deja vu,'" noted Brother Harry. "I didn't think that
> was the place where the Lord intended to take us, and Heather
> insisted the gown she was wearing was not conducive to having her
> arms stretched to the side. So we left before they started gathering
> plywood." The Hardwicks reported the scandalous event to Pastor
> Deacon Fred several days later.
>
> Pastor announced this month that the church will do everything it can
> to prevent any repetition of this tragedy. "I have ordered several
> true Christian couples to save the 14 Jewish children in Freehold by
> picking them up at school and bringing them to the members' homes to
> live," he noted. "They will first be forced to apologize for their
> ancestors' murder of our Lord and then will accept Christ, whether
> they like it or not. Sometimes you have to destroy a Jew family in
> order to save it."
>
> At a recent press conference to announce her new Baptist ministry,
> Hebrews Are The Enemy, which will educate people about how
> theologically unsound and generally annoying Jews are, Landover Lady,
> Betty Bowers, faced a barrage of questions about the new church
> policy from angry secular reporters working for Jewish media
> conglomerates. One reporter noted that the Catholic Church created an
> international incident in the 19th Century when Pope Pius IX kidnaped
> a Jewish child and made the child live with him in the Vatican. The
> reporter also naively challenged Landover's new policy on legal
> grounds. The always-poised Mrs. Bowers responded: "Legally speaking,
> whether we are talking about the Court of God's Judgment or a court
> of law, the outcome is the same -- Jews don't have a prayer. Besides,
> this is not kidnaping. It is soul saving! By the time the first case
> makes it through the courts, George W. Bush will already have
> appointed new Supreme Court justices and our loving act of helping
> children unfortunate enough to be born to Jews will be deemed
> the free exercise of religion by Christians. Indeed, to claim that
> Christians can't save these little Jews is tantamount to religious
> persecution. And this is completely different than the Pope Pius
> affair. I mean, kidnaping so that a Jew can become a Catholic? Talk
> about going from the frying pan into the Hellfire!"

Landover is akin to 'The Onion ' LOL

--
TillyGr@hotmail.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 1 2006 9:00 pm
From: "Tilly"

Salah Jafar wrote:
> You bastard parasite son of bitch, how dear you hate my beloved
> Jesus, the savior who saved humanity and the Jews from their sins.
> May you burn in hell you Jewish bastard.
> SJ

Your sister has pursuaded you to converty from Islam to Christianity? LOL

--
TillyGr@hotmail.com

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