Freetalk about USA culture: 24 new messages in 17 topics

The culture of the United States of America.

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006

24 new messages in 17 topics - digest ==>Read...

soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Iran has A Nuke And Israelis Are Shtting In Their Pants haha - 4 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/958f1b76e584a34e
* If Moses can devided the river, why can he find his way to the promise land -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cf06912950880e6c
* Ali Asker declares: "We are the TERRORISTS..." - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/36de1ec2f2d8ffa6
* The Threat of Sectarian War in Iraq - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1e4f01c9a24a7de2
* Iran Showdown Tests Power of Israel Lobby - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8d508344b03d5f3a
* The Mighty Cheney Has Struck Out - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6831ffb8e90b7180
* Thank you, India admirer ! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e5d8f7ba709dcb5b
* THE PROBLEMS WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE US - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b462f77d61ef1898
* Duke University should have Sharia Law on campus - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b731a820b0909c21
* GOP alters bill to not discourage illegal aliens - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/150d5f229e134f5f
* "We don't need no stinking visas!" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6e1cdf6f8f5e1751
* Colorado: Kids Stage Old Glory Walkout. - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2f1882ac30dc275
* Lectura Obligada. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/531675c957db39ae
* AHMADINEJAD.... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/168923a383917185
* Passover and the Ignored Liberation <---- Good read - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bd6c86674f9e8c04
* British MP Calls for Sanctions Against Israel - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/37724ea584282821
* Bangla Terrorist Groups Involved In Varanasi Bomb Blats - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee4fc3538a948b81

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Iran has A Nuke And Israelis Are Shtting In Their Pants haha
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/958f1b76e584a34e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 8:44 pm
From: "Al Nakba"

Pathetic fuckwit you are. qumwad!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 8:55 pm
From: "Jim E"

"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:30j%f.83$MM6.14@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
> news:4a4p2pFqqnc4U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:pP5%f.3610$zh1.1934@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
>>> news:4a37imFrd9kqU1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "ysidro" <ysidro_mcguffog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:443c3f2d$0$6779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>>>> Al Nakba wrote:
>>>>>> Iran's asslifting goat buggering mullahs will soon be turbanated..
>>>>>>
>>>>> Best you lay is some public transport timetables or buy a bicycle,
>>>>> because if Iran is attacked the worlds oil price is going to go into
>>>>> orbit.
>>>>
>>>> Way cool, less traffic to compete with.
>>>> I get 55MPG.
>>>>
>>> YOU MUST BE RIDING YOUR JEW SOW TO WORK!
>>>>
>>
>> No, my Milwaukee Hog.
>>
>> Harley Davidson, the American machine.
>
> My Gilera, 30 years old, beats your shitty Harley!
>

How many miles does it get per camel terd

Jim E

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 8:56 pm
From: "Jim E"

"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:i1j%f.84$MM6.2@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
> news:4a3801Fr2opoU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:8SY_f.8654$yh.5339@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "Al Nakba" <williamhubbard@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1144805878.614672.186940@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Iran will be green grass and the mullahs' ass will be grass..Mekhtoub!
>>> I THINK GEORGE BUSH IS ALREADY SORRY THAT HE FOLLOWED THE ADVICE OF THE
>>> KIKES!
>
> And the stupids who are willing to die for Kikeland
>

Not as sorry as Sodumb Insane and the member of his army now rotting in the
desert

Jim E

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 4:16 am
From: "DoD"

"Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
news:4a60ggFrp46tU1@individual.net...
>
> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:i1j%f.84$MM6.2@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "Jim E" <YD652126@sea.edu> wrote in message
>> news:4a3801Fr2opoU1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8SY_f.8654$yh.5339@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Al Nakba" <williamhubbard@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1144805878.614672.186940@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Iran will be green grass and the mullahs' ass will be grass..Mekhtoub!
>>>> I THINK GEORGE BUSH IS ALREADY SORRY THAT HE FOLLOWED THE ADVICE OF THE
>>>> KIKES!
>>
>> And the stupids who are willing to die for Kikeland
>>
>
> Not as sorry as Sodumb Insane and the member of his army now rotting in
> the
> desert

His two bastard sons got off easy, I hope that they hook his testicles up
to a battery and have some laughs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If Moses can devided the river, why can he find his way to the promise
land
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cf06912950880e6c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 8:46 pm
From: "Al Nakba"

He's a deranged ignoramous..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ali Asker declares: "We are the TERRORISTS..."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/36de1ec2f2d8ffa6
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 8:47 pm
From: "rick murphy"

http://www.turkishforum.com/pkk/img/photos/bebek_katili1.jpg
http://www.turkishforum.com/greece/visual.html

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ali Asker (pasa_asker@lycos.com, <pasa_as...@kurdistan.kd>) is a self
proclaimed PKK terrorist and proud of his murders living off british
taxpayers goodwill in Belfast, UK.

++++++++++++++++=

"From: Ali Asker (pasa_asker@lycos.com)
Subject: Re: Kuwerdish contribution to Oscar 2005
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian, soc.culture.kurdish,
soc.culture.turkish, soc.culture.iraq
Date: 2004-10-02 04:55:12 PST

We are the TERRORISTS...

We will divide Iran, Turkey, Syria and Iraq in to the pieces until
ever single individual is free from thought control, torture and
brain-washing! Every nation should have their own land where they can
practice their own culture. Iran has consist of about 20 some
different nations and we will tore them in to 20 different countries
and give mollahs a small land where they can practice their barbaric
religion to themselves and only harm temselves.

WE WILL BREAK IRAN IN TO THE PIECES!!! "

++++++++++++++++++

http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~381@nvid~607454,00.asp

Ereli: Our common interest is to stop the PKK

The U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli in response to whether
the US would allow Turkey to enter the north of Iraq in order to
eliminate the terrorist organization, the Kurdistan Workers Party
(PKK), said that he was unaware that such a statement had been made and
that if it did become a question, the necessary military authorities
would deal with it.

Ereli reiterated that the US recognised the PKK as a terrorist
organization and would act with its common interest with Turkey in
preventing terrorism activities of the PKK.

"Both Turkey and the United States consider PKK a terrorist
organization. Both countries are active against PKK," Ereli indicated.
He noted that the two countries would continue to cooperate and work
together on this matter.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=42380

Boucher: Ocalan Is A Terrorist Who Belongs In A Prison Cell

Published: 5/19/2005

WASHINGTON D.C. - The United States Department of State has announced
that Abdullah Ocalan is a terrorist who ''belongs in a prison cell.''

The U.S. Department of State has indicated that it took note of the
recent decision made by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) on
Ocalan and that this topic will be best handled by Turkey.

Spokesman of the U.S. Department of State Richard Boucher has said that
the U.S. continues to regard the PKK as a terrorist organization.

Describing Ocalan as a terrorist who belongs in a prison cell, Boucher
said that they did take a note of the ECHR decision.

Yet we believe that this topic would most appropriately be handled by
Turkey itself, commented Boucher.

+++++++++++++++++++

http://www.turkses.com/index.asp

The Terror Organization KADEK

1. General

Historical Background

The initial activities regarding the terror organization PKK have
started with the intellectual activities of some students defending the
Marxist-Leninist ideology within the Ankara's Democratic Patriotic
Students Association (ADYÖD) under the leadership of Abdullah ÖCALAN
since 1973.

Abdullah ÖCALAN and his friends declared the setting up of the
Kurdistan's Workers Party (PKK) during an illegal meeting held in the
Diyarbakir province, Lice district, Fis village on November 27, 1978
which was called 1 st. Congress.

The inital documents stating PKK's aim were the "The Way Of
Kurdistan's Revolution-Manifesto" and party program published in 1978.
According to the said program, the aim of the terror organization is to
found initially an independent Marxist-Leninist Kurdistan state in the
East and Southeast Anatolian regions in Turkey by using the method of
armed propaganda and to achieve subsequently its final goal of
establishing an "Independent United Kurdistan" through the unification
of the Kurdish states to be founded in neighboring countries.

To this end, the terror organization PKK having officially declared
the commencement of its armed activities following the bloody attacks
on the districts Eruh and Þemdinli on August 15, 1984 has determined
four-stage strategy in order to divide and destroy Turkey by trying to
gather some part of the people, who have been living in peace within
the country for thousands of years, on a separate territory under a
different flag claiming that they have allegedly a different identity.

According to the above-mentioned strategy, it has been intended to;

- Obtain certain cultural and social rights at the first stage,

- Set up an autonomy or another administrative system of federation
type at the second stage,

- Establish the alleged North Kurdistan in our territory at the
third stage and

- Found an independent and united Kurdistan state in the region to
include some parts of Iranian, Iraqi and Syrian territories at the
final stage.

To this end, the terror organization PKK has adopted the method of
separatism-based, three-phased armed propaganda which was called the
war of people, and based on violence directed against the regional
people. Accordingly, the terror organization PKK has aimed at.

- Completing strategic defense stage through armed propaganda,
alleged guerilla war and mobile war operations under the control of its
leading staff within the framework of its ideological ideas in the
first phase,

- Partially completing the process of establishing fronts and an
army and thus, creating the strategic balance which will provide the
balance of power between the security forces and the terror
organization in the second phase and,

- Establishing saved areas in the region after triggering public
risings wherever possible by escalating the conflicts and passing into
strategic attack state when seizing the authority in the third phase,

The terror organization which has increased its armed force over 8
thousand men and raised the violence it has used against the people
regardless of their being women, elder or children to the highest level
from 1992 has not been able to achieve the above-mentioned stages until
today due to the measures taken in accordance with the "Area
Superiority Concept" put into practice from 1994, and the operations
successfully conducted by security forces. As a result, the separatist
terror organization was forced to take the decision of unilateral
ceasefire four times in 1993, 1995, 1998 and finally on September 01,
1999 in order to preserve its terrorist power.

The terror organization desiring to exploit the alleged cease-fire
as an opportunity of recovery for tactical purposes has tried to prove
that it still maintains its existence by continuing its acts and
violence against the civilians and security forces in rural, on the one
hand, carrying out sabotage and bomb attacks in the cities, on the
other hand.

The Turkish Armed Forces has gained an important success in pulling
down the terror organization and its activities to a marginal level
through a successful military operation it has conducted under the
Turkish constitution and legislation to destroy the internal threat, by
acting in a way that ensures the simultaneous implementation of a
series of administrative, social and economic measures taken to prevent
the support being provided to the terror organization.

The last achievement of the Turkish Armed Forces in struggling
against terrorism was that head of the terror organization A. ÖCALAN,
who was deported from Syria, was taken to Turkey following his capture
in Kenya/Nairobi on February 15, 1999 and brought before the
independent court.

The terror organization, tending to resort again to violence during
the period when the head of the terror organization has been taken to
Turkey and brought before the judge, has been able to adapt itself to
the new situation in a short time within the framework of the defense
that head of the terror organization has made in the court and has
tried to reach its goal by exploiting Turkey's EU goal and certain
values such as human rights and democratic rights widely accepted by
the international community. Within the framework of his defense in the
court, the head of the terrorist organization has changed his tactic
and begun to articulate such concepts as "Democratic Republic" and
"Democratic Middle Eastern Union" in its defense to save himself from
capital punishment.

At the VII. Congress of the terror organization held in the Kandil
Mountain region in Iraq on January 02-23, 2000 during which the new
strategy of the terror organization was agreed, it was decided that;

- The armed activities should be resumed in case of execution of
head of the terrorist organization and.

- The Kurdistan's National Liberation Army (ARGK), the alleged
military flank of the terror organization should maintain its existence
under the title of "People Defense Forces (Hezi Parastini Gel-HP) and
the Kurdistan's National Liberation Front (ERNK), the alleged political
flank of the terror organization, which mainly carries out activities
in European countries under the "Kurdish Democratic People Union
(Yekita Democratic A Gele Kurd-YDK) until appropriate legal
arrangements regarding recognition of the Kurdish identity in Turkey
and constitutional guarantees are provided.

The legalization plan that the terror organization has developed
according to its new strategy agreed during its congress, provides for
the followings:

- Giving the message that it is ready to make peace with the
government of Turkish Republic in order to obtain the status of being
recognized as a party in national and international public opinion,

- Handing over some terrorists to the security forces to convince
the public opinion that it is allegedly ready to make peace,

- Making political studies within the People's Democratic Party
(HADEP), which has political connection with the terror organization,
or a similar legal organization, and cooperating with other political
parties,

- Making guiding studies within the municipalities governed by
HADEP to broaden grass roots,

- Having contacts and cooperating with intellectuals from all
circles in Turkey's democratization to ensure the alleged cultural
rights of Kurds being recognized,

- Demanding that the Turkish government should make legal changes
to prove its goodwill through the human rights organizations,

- Bringing up the education in Kurdish language,

- Ensuring the Kurdish identity coming to the fore by focusing on
cultural activities,

- Organizing campaigns in order to ensure the scope of the law of
amnesty being extended,

The terror organization has attempted by its new plan to reach its
final goal that it could not achieve through its armed struggle it has
been carrying out for 16 years, through legalization efforts. To this
end, it has increased its activities it has conducted under the title
of the "Democratic Republic" at home and under "Political Settlement (
Solution ) To The Kurdish Problem" abroad,

In the plan the terror organization developed under the name of
"Peace Project" on March 07, 2000 following the VII. Congress,

- The alleged "Kurdish Problem" and PKK terror are identified with
the Irish, Palestinian, East Timor and Basque problems and it is
requested that the related "Political Solution" initiatives should also
be taken in Turkey and,

- It is put forward that the settlement of the alleged Kurdish
problem in Turkey in accordance with the predictions of head of the
terror organization, Öcalan would also serve the settlement of the
problems in the Middle Eastern countries, and the "Democratic Middle
Eastern Union" to be set up in regional countries would lead to
economic, social and cultural developments,

- Subsequently, in its 2nd "Party Assembly" meeting held in North
Iraq in September 2000, the terror organization decided to be
reorganized to conceal its terrorist identity and began to term its
former structure with innocent titles,

- Assuming that the new strategy of the terror organization could
not be well understood and adopted by its mountain members, the terror
organization held the III. "Party Assembly" meeting between 27 February
and 03 March 2001 and focused on restructuring activities in accordance
with the decisions it took during the said meeting. In addition, the
terror organization, having assessed that the people movement
activities could not achieve the desired level, has intensified its
efforts to ensure its new strategy being accepted by its members and
supporters through a series of meetings.

In this context;

* The "Centralized Propaganda and Media Conference" was held
between 29 May and 07 June 2001 in order for the efforts in the media
field, that the terror organization considers to be insufficient, and
to reach an organized structure,

* The "1st Public Movement Conference" was held between 20 June and
02 July 2001 for the purpose of carrying out the acts and activities
the terror organization has started under the name of alleged 2nd Peace
Efforts, in a more organized manner through its supporters and
sympathizers who are directed by the front organizations,

* The "1st Public Defense Forces (HPG), Conference" was held
between 28 June and 12 July 2001 in order to develop a new structure by
making radical changes in the armed flank of the terror organization
from the armed group order and discipline to war tactics and
techniques,

* The "3rd Free Women Party (PJA) Conference" was held on July
11-22, 2001 to make the women organizations conducting activities in
legal and illegal fields more active and organized,

* The "1st Culture, Art and Folklore Conference" was held on 11-22
July 2001 in order to indoctrinate wider parts of the people with
separatist ideas and,

* The "6th National Conference" was held on August 05-22, 2001
under the leadership of the alleged Supreme Council of the terror
organization in order to coordinate the conferences to be held in line
with the activities the terror organization carries out in various
fields and to direct all organizational efforts towards public
movements,

- The above-mentioned conferences have drawn special attention as
the ones which have been held within the framework of preparations for
the 8th Congress of the terror organization PKK. According to the
decisions taken during the said conferences, various campaigns have
been organized primarily in Europe and subsequently in Turkey for the
purpose of gaining support for the requests of constitutional
recognition of the Kurdish identity and the use of Kurdish language as
the language of education. However, the terror organization has not
been able to reach the desired level of participation by the people.

- On the other hand, the terror organization has focused on
re-establishment of the terrorist groups not directly affected by the
security forces and on their armed training in raid, laying ambush and
sabotage. The disagreements arising within the terror organization,
PKK-KPU conflict and escape of nearly five hundred Syrian terrorists
from the terror organization in particular have been the noticeable
problems that the terror organization has faced within the period under
review.

- In the meantime, the defense that head of the terror organization
has developed for his trial lasting in the European Court of Human
Rights has been printed by the terrorist organization in a two-volume
book under the title of "From the Sumerian Monastic State To The
Democratic Republic", accepted as the second manifesto and begun to be
used as a guide document for all activities carried out by the terror
organization and as a basic document in the ideological training of the
terrorist organization's members and supporters.

- The 8th Congress preparations which have lasted for a long time
in accordance with the outline of the said defense of head of the
terrorist organization was held in the Kandil Mountain region in
Northern Iraq on April 04-10, 2002 with the participation of 285
terrorist's 106 of whom were women and 179 men as well as about 100
audiences,

- In the said congress during which the activities the terror
organization PKK has conducted in the past and report developed
according to the defense of head of the terror organization and
submitted to the congress have also been evaluated, it has been pointed
out that;

* The terror organization PKK has obtained some advantages like
raising of the Kurdish problem in international area as a result of the
armed struggle it has conducted since 1977,

* However, the ideology and modus operandi adopted by the terror
organization at the beginning have failed due to the collapse of the
former Soviet system and the anti-terror environment arising following
the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the US and,

* It has been the time that PKK would be replaced by a completely
new formation in order not to be included in the list of terrorist
organizations, and it must undergo restructuring beginning from its
ideology to its lowest-level units, including a change in its
organizational title,

* The "3rd Free Women Party (PJA) Conference" was held on July
11-22, 2001 to make the women organizations conducting activities in
legal and illegal fields more active and organized,

* The "1st Culture, Art and Folklore Conference" was held on 11-22
July 2001 in order to indoctrinate wider parts of the people with
separatist ideas and,

* The terror organization PKK has obtained some advantages like
raising of the Kurdish problem in international area as a result of the
armed struggle it has conducted since 1977,

- During its 8th Congress, the terror organization has stated that
PKK's role has ended under current circumstances and decided that;

* It will not use the title "PKK" in the activities it carries out
in every field from April 04, 2002 when the birthday of head of the
terrorists is,

* It will conduct its activities under the title "Kurdistan's
Freedom and Democracy Congress-KADEK" from now on in accordance with a
new program, statute and organization based on the solution of Kurdish
problem in line with the main points of the defense that head of the
terrorists has submitted to the European Court of Human Rights within
the existing borders in four countries,

* PKK considers KADEK as its sole legal representative and disposes
of its moral and physical acquisitions to KADEK. The terror
organization made a press conference in Belgium/Brussels on April 16,
2000 and publicized its decisions.

- In the meantime, the fact that the inclusion of the PKK in the
list of terrorist organizations developed by the European Union member
nations which was issued on May 4, 2002 has led the members of the
terrorist organizations into great concern regarding the possible
inclusion of KADEK in the list of terrorist organizations. For this
reason, the terror organization has immediately begun to make protests
against such nations as Denmark, Spain, the UK who have had an effect
on the related decision-making,

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Threat of Sectarian War in Iraq
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1e4f01c9a24a7de2
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 10:50 pm
From: NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The Threat of Sectarian War in Iraq

Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit

The Jordan Times - 12 April 2006
http://jordantimes.com/wed/opinion/opinion2.htm

The threat of sectarian war in Iraq

By Hasan Abu Nimah

An all-out sectarian war in Iraq looks increasingly unavoidable. There are
no signs on the international political horizon to justify hope that the
slide into bloody chaos can be halted.

The Arab states have proved to be totally impotent, individually and
collectively. The United Nations, which ought to have been central to
preventing the initial US invasion, has been equally marginal and powerless,
not only in Iraq but also with respect to the Palestine conflict. Other than
issuing bland statements, the UN does not even pretend to exert any
influence.

The US administration, in denial about the scale and nature of the
resistance it faces in Iraq, has no way to extricate itself with even the
thinnest veil of respectability. Washington is in a lose-lose situation:
immediate withdrawal would hand the "terrorists" a victory, President George
Bush asserts, while remaining in Iraq guarantees continued conflict and
growing resistance. Paralysed, the administration seems to have no other
strategy than "staying the course".

In the meantime, Iraqi society is growing ever more divided. While the main
cleavages are along ethnic-religious lines, what lies behind the mutual
killing is essentially political: victims of the old regime are settling
scores and those resisting the occupation are treating those they see as
acquiescing to it or collaborating with it as their enemies. Atrocities --
including bombings of mosques, and death squad executions of unarmed
civilians -- are escalating in a climate of complete political void. There
is no authority to control lawlessness, no institutions, no political
framework, no plan at all for restarting a country that is in social,
economic and political collapse.

As Kurds, with massive external support, have pressed claims for autonomy
amounting to near independence, any notion of a common Iraqi identity has
also been severely damaged. Prior to the war, some of its greatest
supporters admitted that they wanted to remove Iraq's Arab character. It is
understandable, though, that the Kurds may not be considered Arabs, but if
they were to be distinguished as a different nationality, why were the Arabs
denied their own nationality?

The new constitution seems to have been designed to rob Iraqis of a basis
for rebuilding their state on a common citizenship, defining them as Sunnis,
Shiites, Christians, Turkmen, Armenians and Kurds. It is much harder to talk
about avoiding sectarian conflict when the seeds of an insidious and
intractable sectarianism have already been sown.

The inevitable result of the ethnic and sectarian fragmentation was the
preemption of the process of democratisation. The two general elections in
Iraq so far were simply a sort of census at the ballot box; everyone voted
his ethnicity and nothing else. Shiites expected to earn in parliament, and
consequently in government, a number of seats relative to their size in the
demographic composition. The Sunnis, and the Kurds who roughly form no more
than 20 per cent of the population each, would get shares corresponding to
that ratio. This peculiar type of democracy which hardly has a parallel
anywhere else has resulted in political stalemate.

Shiite leaders, citing decades of marginalisation despite being the clear
majority in the country, seem determined to have the upper hand in any
future political arrangement. Sunni parties are equally determined not to
move to a secondary place, or to be the marginalised party from now on.
Kurdish leaders see in this stalemate their opportunity to consolidate their
exclusive control over the north of the country in their drive to
independence. At the same time, they still demand a full share of power in
the national parliament and government.

Currently, Kurdish leaders hold the presidency of Iraq, the foreign ministry
and several other prominent Cabinet posts. They may see their heavy
involvement in the government of a state from which they may separate as the
perfect position from which to pursue their claim to attach the heavily
contested city of Kirkuk to a future Kurdish state.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently admitted that her government
committed thousands of mistakes in Iraq, but she excluded one strategic
decision which she insisted was right: going to war. Nor did she care to
clarify how a war which was justified neither by its supposed pretexts nor
by its results could ever have been strategically sound. Any honest
examination of the tragic situation in Iraq now can only conclude that the
primary mistake was the war, and the thousands of mistakes that followed
were only the inevitable consequences.

The full costs of this catastrophic blunder are yet to be measured in Iraqi,
American and other lives, in treasure, and in future insecurity throughout
the region and the world. Those Iraqis who have not been able to flee their
country live without basic sustenance or security, in constant fear of
death. A war that toppled a dictatorial regime left in its wake the anarchy
and unpredictability of a failed state.

The absence of any regional or international effort to stop the disaster is
chilling. Even more frightening are some statements from prominent heads of
state that are simply pouring oil on the raging fire. It is one thing to
talk about civil war as looking increasingly unavoidable and to warn against
the impending disaster in an effort to mobilise preventive action, but it is
another to talk about it with such a high degree of reckless
irresponsibility, condemning the Shiites, not only of Iraq but everywhere
else, of paying allegiance to a country different from their own. This can
only inflame feelings and deepen the split at a time when measured, sober,
evenhanded statements are desperately needed. Such statements, whatever
their source, can only widen the conflict. Coming from a Sunni leader, such
views can be seen as "taking sides" in a conflict that -- heaven forbid
- -- will be construed as being religious in nature, rather than a struggle
for political power.

The situation requires much responsibility, awareness and wisdom. The danger
is much more serious than any perception has managed to describe so far.

*
================================================================
NY Transfer News Collective * A Service of Blythe Systems
Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us
339 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10012 http://www.blythe.org
List Archives: http://olm.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:47 pm
From: "Acharya"

<NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org> wrote in message
news:1144900227.54670155.3757159413@blythe.org...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> The Threat of Sectarian War in Iraq
>
> Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
>
> The Jordan Times - 12 April 2006
> http://jordantimes.com/wed/opinion/opinion2.htm
>
> The threat of sectarian war in Iraq
>
> By Hasan Abu Nimah

Abu has no knowledge. Violent Islam is not based on complete knowledge of
reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all people but true
democracy is.

< NY transfer bullshit cut >

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Iran Showdown Tests Power of Israel Lobby
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8d508344b03d5f3a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 8:50 pm
From: NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org

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Iran Showdown Tests Power of Israel Lobby

Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit

Inter Press Service - 12 April 2006
http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=8843

Iran Showdown Tests Power of Israel Lobby

By Jim Lobe

One month after the publication by two of the most influential international
relations scholars in the United States of a highly controversial essay on
the so-called "Israel Lobby," their thesis that the lobby exercises
"unmatched power" in Washington is being tested by rapidly rising tensions
with Iran.

Far more visibly than any other domestic constituency, the Israel Lobby,
defined by Profs. John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen
Walt, academic dean of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, as "the loose
coalition of individuals and organizations who actively work to shape U.S.
foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction," has pushed the government - both
Congress and the George W. Bush administration - toward confrontation with
Tehran.

Leading the charge has been a familiar group of neoconservatives, such as
former Defense Policy Board (DPB) chairman Richard Perle and former Central
Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey, who championed the war in Iraq
but who have increasingly focused their energies over the past year on
building support for "regime change" and, if necessary, military action
against Iran if it does not abandon its nuclear program.

(On Tuesday, Iran announced that it had successfully enriched uranium, which
can be used for both nuclear weapons and nuclear power reactors, in defiance
of a UN Security Council resolution ordering an end to all enrichment
activities by April 28).

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the premier Israel
lobby group whose annual convention last year featured a giant, multimedia
exhibit on how Iran is "pursuing nuclear weapons and how it can be stopped,"
has also been pushing hard on Capitol Hill for legislation to promote regime
change. Despite White House objections, the group has sought tough sanctions
against foreign companies with investments in Iran.

"This bill has been pushed almost entirely by AIPAC," noted Trita Parsi, a
Middle East expert at Johns Hopkins School for Advanced International
Studies (SAIS) here. "I don't see any other major groups behind this
legislation that have had any impact on it."

Similarly, the American Jewish Committee (AJC), whose leadership is
considered slightly less hawkish than AIPAC, has taken out full-page ads in
influential U.S. newspapers since last week entitled "A Nuclear Iran
Threatens All" depicting radiating circles on an Iran-centered map to show
where its missiles could strike.

"Suppose Iran one day gives nuclear devices to terrorists," the ad reads.
"Could anyone anywhere feel safe?"

In their 81-page essay, entitled "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"
and condensed in a shorter essay published last month in the London Review
of Books, Mearsheimer and Walt, pillars of the "realist" school of
international relations, argue that Washington's Middle East policy is too
closely tied to Israel to serve its own national interests in the region,
particularly in the so-called "war on terror."

They believe that the power of the Israel Lobby - derived, among other
things, from its ability to marshal financial support for Democratic as well
as Republican politicians, its grassroots organizational prowess, and its
ability to stigmatize critics as "anti-Semitic" (a tactic already deployed
against the authors) - is largely responsible.

"No lobby has managed to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from what the
American national interest would otherwise suggest, while simultaneously
convincing Americans that U.S. and Israeli interests are essentially the
same," the authors argued, noting that the lobby, while predominantly
Jewish, also includes prominent Christian evangelicals and non-Jewish
neoconservatives, such as Woolsey and former Education Secretary William
Bennett.

In the administration's decision to invade Iraq, pressure from Israel and
the lobby played a "critical" - although not exclusive - role, according to
the paper, which cited prewar public prodding by Israeli leaders and by
leaders of many major Jewish organizations as evidence, although it notes
that most U.S. Jews were skeptical and have since turned strongly against
the war.

Neoconservatives closely associated with the right-wing views of Israel's
Likud party - both in and outside the administration - played a particularly
important role in gaining support for "regime change" in Iraq stretching
back to the mid-1990s, according to the paper.

But even during the run-up to the Iraq war, Israeli leaders, notably
then-Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon,
depicted Iran as the greater threat, a theme that was picked up by the
Lobby, led by the neoconservatives, immediately after Baghdad's fall.

"The liberation of Iraq was the first great battle for the future of the
Middle East. ... But the next great battle - not, we hope a military one -
will be for Iran," wrote the Weekly Standard's neoconservative editor,
William Kristol, in early May 2003.

Shortly thereafter, neoconservatives and other hawks led by Vice President
Dick Cheney succeeded in cutting off ongoing U.S.-Iranian talks on
Afghanistan and Iran and killing an offer by Tehran to engage in a broader
negotiation on all outstanding differences.

What makes the growing confrontation with Iran so remarkable is that the
Israel Lobby appears to be the only major organized force here that is
actively pushing it toward crisis.

Mainstream analysts, including arms control hawks who favor strong pressure
on Iran over its nuclear program, have spoken out against military action as
far too risky and almost certainly counterproductive. Even analysts at the
right-wing Heritage Foundation have voiced doubts. "It just doesn't make any
sense from a geopolitical standpoint," said Heritage's James Carifano,
noting Iran's capacity to retaliate against the U.S. in Iraq.

The Iranian exile community, which has generally favored more pressure on
Tehran, similarly appears divided about the consequences of a military
attack, with some leaders fearing that it would strengthen the regime, Walt
told IPS. He added that "it's hard for me to believe that [U.S.] oil
companies would be in favor of a military option [because they] don't like
violence or events that create political risk or uncertainty."

While insisting that military action against Iran's nuclear program should
only be a last resort, the Israel Lobby, on the other hand, appears united
in the conviction that an attack will indeed be necessary if diplomatic
efforts, economic pressure, and covert action fail.

"[Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad] sees the West as wimps and thinks
we will eventually cave in," Patrick Clawson, deputy director of research of
the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a think tank established by
AIPAC, told New Yorker investigative reporter Seymour Hersh. "We have to be
ready to deal with Iran if the crisis escalates."

Hersh summarized Clawson's bottom line as "Iran had no choice other than to
accede to America's demands or face a military attack."

That was much the same message delivered by Perle himself and rapturously
received by the attendees at AIPAC's 2006 convention here last month. The
convention, at which the keynoter, none other than the administration's
ultimate hawk, Vice President Cheney, vowed "meaningful consequences" if
Iran did not freeze its nuclear program, drew several hundred Democratic and
Republican lawmakers in what could only be described as a show of raw
political power.

"I don't think there's another group in the country that has two successive
conferences in which the centerpiece was beating the drums for war in Iran,"
noted one senior official with another major pro-Israel organization, who
asked not to be identified. "They are the main force behind this."

*
================================================================
NY Transfer News Collective * A Service of Blythe Systems
Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us
339 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10012 http://www.blythe.org
List Archives: http://olm.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Mighty Cheney Has Struck Out
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6831ffb8e90b7180
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 3:53 am
From: "F. H."

Joseph wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:20:00 GMT, "F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Joseph wrote:
>>> ***No doubt his always present medical mash unit was standing by just
>>> in case of emergency.
>> No but according to one report I heard the stadium was ringed with
>> snipers that didn't stand down until after he left.
>
> ***No doubt "P.D.Q.".

LOL, Welcome to "Moon Over Parador."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thank you, India admirer !
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e5d8f7ba709dcb5b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:11 pm
From: "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101@dont.reply>

<gunjan.ghai@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144866589.996341.206700@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Seeker
>
> Responses marked as @@@@
>
> Seeker wrote:
> > <gunjan.ghai@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1144773039.636660.300320@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > Seeker
> > >
> > > I sense that you are softening up as a person...thanking people for
> > > being concerned about your health ;-) Maybe you can teach new tricks
> > > too an old &#@$.....well...I will not use the word....i respect elders
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > Ok....So you are saying a tiny fraction of people are troubled in
> > > pakistan ? Well....if I remember correctly....the language minorities
> > > make up 45% of pakistan...and then add the 12% Shias
> > > proportionately.....viola...you have 50% !!!!! Amazing how you can
call
> > > that a tiny number !!!!
> >
> > First, you must learn to add. 45 + 12 is not equal to 50. OK. I don't
know
> > what kind of schooling Bajrangdal provided you, but there are serious
flaws
> > in your education assuming that you have some intelligence to start
with.
> > Maybe that is not a valid assumption.
>
> @@@@ ha ha....READ old man....I said....If I add 12% shias
> PROPORTIONATELY.....That means I assume 45% of the 12% Shias are
> language minorities....that leaves 5.4%...approximated for your little
> brain to 5%....added to 45%....makes 50%....SO MUCH FOR YOUR MADRASA
> EDUCATION.......NOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN PROVEN A FOOL AT MATHS....CAN
> YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION....YOU HAVE AVOIDED IT FOR AGES....sorry for the
> caps..had to make you realise your stupidity

I have never claimed to be a genius, but you were not clear as to what you
meant. If this is what you meant, then this is what you should have said.

>
> > If these people are more than 50%, then they are not minorities. Right?
> >
> > You also lack the faculty to understand what I said. Yes, there is a
> > sizeable minority in Pakistan, but they are not targeted more than any
other
> > class. So only a tiny fraction of people, regardless of language or
> > religion, are ever affected by government action. On that basis, you
can't
> > say that people are persecuted in Pakistan.
>
> @@@@ So you would call it a persecution if ALL of the 50% of the
> potential targets are harmed....My friend....even if a small sample of
> these people are targetted.....its crime enough....and they are not
> targetted more than any other what class ? And no one is talking about
> government action....I am talking about Sunnis blowing up Shia
> mosques...the karachi bomb blasts...the riots against mohajirs.....why
> blame it on your government when its your internal clashes breaking out
> ?....I have never denied that the 'lower castes' are still mistreated
> in India in the villages and backward areas...but if I take up your
> logic and say that only a small percentage of them are mistreated...I
> would be running away from the truth like you are trying....but I am
> not you....and i can do maths 10 times better than a paki can....proof
> as you read above
>
> > Why don't you take a trip to Pakistan (after asking Kali ma for Shakti
of
> > course), and see for yourself how good things are.
>
>
> @@@@ Again abuses....Why should I visit Pakistan....The only reason I

What is abusive about it?

> may ever want to visit would be for business...and that means
> Karachi...and that means bomb blasts....thanks but no thanks....
> :-).....And I dont need to ask Kali ma......narendra modi invoked
> shakti ma before he went and taught the muslims a lesson...he is good
> enough :-)....and I am man of numbers and truth....not about

A terrorists supports a terrorist. A neutral country like the US has banned
Modi for his terrorism.

> perceptions (false or otherwise)....and we all know about your
> pedophile mohammed and the Allah who only sits and judges
> people....instead of asking them to question the kuran and make it
> modern....thanks but no thanks again.
>
>
> > > And who told you that a whole lot of 100s of million in india are
> > > persecuted ? Is this your fantasy to give you emotional relief from
the
> > > bomb blasts, blow up rail links and the street fights with mohajirs ?
> >
> > This is too comical. Majority of Indians are lower caste, untouchables,
> > single-born, tribals, Muslims etc. They are are all killed by Hindus.
>
> @@@@ They are ALL killed by Hindus....wow....how do they exist if ALL
> are killed by Hindus ? But in Pakistan its a small percentage only ? ha
> ha...I told you...i never denied persecution exists....thats the
> difference between you and me....I accept the issues...My country is
> fixing its problems....every day, in letter and in spirit.....your
> countrymen only deny the problem...and even on this site....you fight
> Nusrat as a mohajir and abuse his ancestors for having fought for the
> creation of the very nation you live in !!! THAT MY FRIEND IS THE
> DIFFERENCE...besides the fact that your maths sucks as proven above

Maybe my Math sucks although I have never been told that before, but you
need to state your point clearly?

Are you a Sindhi Hindu?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE PROBLEMS WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE US
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b462f77d61ef1898
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:31 pm
From: rzorto90@yahoo.com

First, it's not a new problem. It's just a problem that got exploded in
the face of the Americans today because it's been ignored for too many
years.

When I was living in the US, I already saw the potential problems
concerning the illegal immigrants, of which the Mexicans made up an
overwhelming majority. Who to blame? Well, I think it's the American
people who have invited the problems to themselves by allowing too many
Mexicans into their country because they are too greedy and lazy.
Greedy because they don't want to pay their fellow American workers the
fair wages. Lazy because they don't want to do the grunt work and carry
out the good o'American tradition of earning the money the hard way.

What the American public gets is the lowest quality workers from
Mexico. The good and the able stay back. So, basically the US
effectively has been used as a dumpster for Mexico's garbges.

Our former home in the US was practically destroyed by the incompetent
and unqualified Mexican illegals sent to our house by a local
contractors. When we signed the contract we didn't know that the
company would use illegal immigrants without proper training or even
basic skills to do the job. The headaches that followed weren't worth
it. That is an example of American businesses exploiting the cheap
unskilled labors from the illegal immigrant pool at the expense of the
consumers.

Watching the news on this topic from my home in on island in the
Pacific with the background of our previous experience in the States
was an intriguing experience. What we see from here is the US is up
against a huge problem, the problem involving millions of uneducated
lowlife and hostile Mexicans demanding their rights to invade the US.

So, here we have it, greed has its own rewards. The illegals are going
to drain most - if not all - economic resources in terms of social
welffare and community instability, i.e, impacted prision population.
At the same time, without these illegals, the fruit growers in the US
would have to cut into their fat profits. And this is quite
unacceptable for the greedy capitalists who have been the core
supporters of the Bush administration.

The solution? Well, unfortunately there isn't a good one. And this is
what a nation would have to deal with when it embraces complacency,
greed, exploitation, ignorance, dirty politics, and stupid politicians
to take control of its destiny.

This painful lesson has been shared by Europe in the recent decades,
particularly France, we 've seen in the recent riot. And perhaps this
is the same direction the US would have to confront with. Either that
or a full-scale civil war is necessary for the nation to wake up. A
sense of deep division among the Americans is already visible through
actions in the congress.

I'm glad I've left the country when I still could.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Duke University should have Sharia Law on campus
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b731a820b0909c21
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:31 pm
From: "Gary Rumain"

Given the preponderance of muzzie rape gangs in Sweden, England,
France, Denmark, Australia, Pakistan and all over the world where
muzzies infest, I'd say that the gang rapists at Duke were muzzies.

You know it makes sense

fruitella wrote:
> To prevent rapes from occuring in future. Otherwise it will turn into
> David Duke (of the KKK fame) University. Sharia Law requires men to
> deal respectably with women as if they were their mothers/sisters. It
> also requires women to dress modestly without flashing their tits & ass
> so as to preserve their dignity.
>
> Its the one GOOD thing about islam although they take it overboard at
> times. Actually this modesty theme is there in most eastern religions
> where female goddesses are common place.
>
> You can be sure if the events below had happened to a muslim woman, the
> guys who did it would get a few death threats followed by a big bomb
> attack.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Gang-Rape Allegation Roils Town, University
>
> ....
>
>
> The accuser gave police the following account of the evening, according
> to court documents:
>
> She and another exotic dancer met just east of campus at a house that
> is home to three lacrosse team co-captains. The dancers began their
> routine, but the men became "excited and aggressive," and the women
> left. But they were convinced by one of the men to go back inside.
> Shortly afterward, the accuser was separated from her friend, then
> pulled into a bathroom, held by her legs and arms, and raped for about
> 30 minutes by three men.
>
> In a press release issued Wednesday, police said the dancer was robbed
> of a cell phone and cash before she fled the house.
>
> A next-door neighbor, Jason Bissey, 26, said Thursday that he was on
> his front porch on the night in question. He said he saw some of the
> men from the party milling around outside. He said he also saw two
> women speed off in a car. As they left, he said, one man shouted,
> "Thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt."
>
> http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/basketball/la-me-duke31mar31,1,987891.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GOP alters bill to not discourage illegal aliens
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/150d5f229e134f5f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 12:15 am
From: Scotius

On 12 Apr 2006 08:06:18 -0700, beachshark1@yahoo.com wrote:

>WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- Republican Congressional leaders
>have called for removing language in an immigration bill that would
>make illegal immigration a felony.
>

Sure. They must have realized that when the border state
bishops kept breaking laws in support of illegals and eventually wound
up before the supreme court, someone would realize there must have
been a reason why Bush stacked it with conservative catholics. And
there was a reason. His "base" strategized this out a while back, and
although it might have worked if people were idiots, we're not.

>In a joint statement, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and Senate
>Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said they couldn`t support the
>provision contained in an immigration reform bill passed by the House
>in December.
>
>However, the statement did not offer an alternative, CNN said.
>
>Republicans say making it a felony to assist illegal immigrants to
>'reside in or remain' in the United States could be used to prosecute
>anyone who offers to help law-breakers, the Chicago Tribune reported,
>which might suggest that Republicans are actually sincere in wanting to
>stop illegal entry into the United States. To clarify that the new law
>is not truly meant to be effective, GOP leaders have decided to take
>the teeth out it.
>
>The bill was drafted by Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., the House
>Judiciary Committee chairman, but at the request of the Bush
>administration, Sensenbrenner offered an amendment that would have
>reduced the infraction to a misdemeanor.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 12:16 am
From: Scotius

On 12 Apr 2006 08:06:18 -0700, beachshark1@yahoo.com wrote:

>WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- Republican Congressional leaders
>have called for removing language in an immigration bill that would
>make illegal immigration a felony.
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "We don't need no stinking visas!"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6e1cdf6f8f5e1751
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 12:14 am
From: Scotius

On 12 Apr 2006 07:14:18 -0700, "Kevin" <kevprice1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"We are millions. Count us. We will outnumber you," the protesters
>chanted. They carried Mexican and American flags, although sometimes
>the U.S. flags were displayed upside down. A sign said, "We don't need
>
>no stinking visas!"
>
>Sandra Briseño came to the USA from Mexico five years ago on a visa
>and stayed long after her permit ran out. With criminally forged
>papers, she has since made a shadowy life here as a food-service
>worker.
>
>Briseño, 36, emerged from the shadows Monday to joinan impromptu rally
>
>downtown.
>
>"I needed to be here," she said about giving up a day's pay. "We need
>to make noise."
>
>"I know I'm breaking the law," Briseño said of the fake documents that
>
>allowed her to work illegally, "but this is a great way to get money.
>We just want to get the benefits of American life that we cannot get in
>
>our own country."

Some do. And then again there are those who want "to reclaim
California and the other 'stolen' states for Mexico". They are fools.
The government of Mexico is one of the most corrupt in the World.
Mexico is fourth in the World in the number of BILLIONAIRES living
there, behind the US, Germany, and Japan, and still they can't get
enough money to give their poorest some support? No, of course not,
because that's not the way it works in hardline catholic countries.
They think that if they succeed, they'll be the heroes of the
reclaimed states. They're lunatics. They'll be as dirt poor as ever,
whether it's Vincente Fox keeping them that way, or GW and his
Halliburtonization of America making them that way.

>
>In Los Angeles, in a downtown plaza on the spot where 45 colonists from
>
>
>Mexico founded this city in 1781, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa joined
>thousands demonstrating for the rights of foreign law-breakers.
>
>Unlike a much larger demonstration here March 25 dominated by Mexican
>flags, protest organizers this time discouraged the Mexican flags,
>hoping to conceal where protesters hearts and loyalty lie.
>
>In New York, Elizabeth Jacome wasn't exactly thrilled to see so many
>American flags, at least one nearly as wide as the street itself,
>hoisted high above Broadway as thousands packed into Lower Manhattan.
>
>Jacome carried two other flags, one Ecuadorian, one Mexican. "I'm
>against this country,"said Jacome, 20, a junior at Columbia University.
>
>
>Her parents are Ecuadorian, she was born here and lives in the Bronx
>- yet Jacome considers herself Mexican, because that's the community
>and culture she grew up around. She works in the office of a bakery
>alongside many Mexicans. "America? I don't know what America is. I'm an
>individual."
>
>Still, the throngs that inched down Broadway to City Hall seemed to
>move as a massive unit to the beat of drums, trumpets and the
>occasional sax. Chris Calderone bent over a police barricade to
>purchase a Peruvian flag.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Colorado: Kids Stage Old Glory Walkout.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2f1882ac30dc275
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 11:38 pm
From: Alric Knebel

Way Back Jack wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:36:45 -0500, Alric Knebel
> <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
>
>
>>AlleyCat wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <44396629.33456562@news.prodigy.net>, YoMammy@home.org
>>>says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I still don't give a shit. Why don't you and your Nazi buddy get
>>>>>together and cuss out the dark races over some good German beer.
>>>>
>>>>It's more fun educating whiggers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Not whigger, Jack... loser. You kicked her ass in this thread and she
>>>can't take it. Resorts to flights of fancy. Calling someone a Nazi
>>>because that someone doesn't like the way a certain race acts, as a
>>>whole, is like calling someone with long hair a hippie. It doesn't fit
>>>and it just shows ignorance on her part.
>>>
>>>Jack 1
>>>Alice 0
>>>
>>>AlleyCat
>>
>>Wow. You can't even read. "Alice"? Who the hell is Alice? Just goes
>>to show you, these racists should have spent more time in school instead
>>of giving each other massages down in the bunker.
>
>
> GONG!
>
> Alice be rackin' up whigga points today.

Oh, oh. Now he's thought of a "funny" name for me. So, among you
racists, is this what passes off as a demonstration of superior
intelligence, purposely misspelling my name? What's next? "Nanny nanny
poo poo"? Good job, Billy Bob.
--
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 11:41 pm
From: Alric Knebel

AlleyCat wrote:

> In article <dbjp32d6o87jfeo8e4li5q6lep1dodec25@4ax.com>,
> lojbab@lojban.org says...
>
>>I will leave to others to argue whether and how the posting of racist
>>statistical nonsense
>>
>
>
> Statistics themselves can't be racist. . . .

But obsessive interest in them is. What good do those statistics do
you? What's YOUR IQ level, as an individual? I'd bet it's low, and
something you already suspect, which causes you to focus on your groups
AVERAGES. Since YOU aren't that smart, you take pride in the fact that
YOUR groups is on average smarter than another group. See how that
works?
--
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lectura Obligada.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/531675c957db39ae
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 12:28 am
From: "PM"

Define el problema islamico

AUDIO...

http://s95wm.castup.net/server12/39182686-61.wmv?s=&rid=603010425143776&ct=CA&rg=NA&aid=214&st=0

ALGUNOS ENLACES....
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/27.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

A estos terroristas uds. nunca los denuncian.... PORQUE SERA...?

List of Pictures
[ Back ] [ Next ]

AUDIO...

http://s95wm.castup.net/server12/39182686-61.wmv?s=&rid=603010425143776&ct=CA&rg=NA&aid=214&st=0

Oriana Fallaci Has Enrolled in the Society of Jesus

An article by one of the Jesuits of "La Civiltà Cattolica" makes an extremely critical analysis of Islam, one very similar to that of the famous author - whose work Benedict XVI reads with admiration

by Sandro Magister

ROMA, April 10, 2006 - One of the four topics considered by Benedict XVI and the cardinals during their day "of reflection and prayer" at the last consistory, on March 23, was Islam.

Or, more precisely: "the position of the Catholic Church, and of the Holy See, in the face of Islam today."

The discussion was held in private, but some of the cardinals afterward remarked that much more concern was shown than in the past over the challenge that Islam presents to Christianity and the West, and that there was general agreement with Benedict XVI's energetic opposition to terrorism and the violation of religious liberty.

One month earlier, on February 20, pope Joseph Ratzinger received Morocco's new ambassador to the Holy See, Ali Achour, and made a vigorous appeal for the rejection of violence and for full respect for religious liberty, "in a reciprocal manner in all societies."

And on March 22, on the eve of the consistory, the pope, acting through his secretary of state Angelo Sodano, had sent to the president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, an urgent request for the liberation of Abdul Rahman, an Afghan citizen condemned to death for converting to Christianity.

Rahman was in fact freed and transferred to Italy under protective custody. And he has Benedict XVI to thank for that.

But can this more energetic approach to the question of Islam also be found in the analysis the Church makes of the phenomenon?

The answer is yes. One outstanding proof of this is an essay that appeared in the most recent edition of "Studium," an authoritative Italian bimonthly journal on Catholic culture founded in 1906, which is printed by the publishing house of the same name and directed by two scholars of great prestige: Vincenzo Cappelletti, a philosopher of science and director of the Institute of the Italian Encyclopedia, and Francesco Paolo Casavola, a jurist and former president of the constitutional court. The dedicated collaborators of "Studium" have included Giovanni Battista Montini, who became pope under the name of Paul VI.

The essay is entitled "The Islamic Question," and occupies 30 pages of the journal. It is accompanied by extensive footnotes, and is featured prominently beginning with the cover, which depicts a minaret standing out among the skyscrapers of a Western city.

But the really interesting thing about the article is its authors, Roberto A.M. Bertacchini and Piersandro Vanzan, and in particular the latter of these. Vanzan is a Jesuit, a professor of pastoral theology at the Pontifical Gregorian University, and above all he is part of the college of writers for "La Civiltà Cattolica," the magazine of the Rome Jesuits that is printed with the inspection and authorization of the Vatican authorities.

Because of its explosive contents, it was unthinkable that the essay by Bertacchini and Vanzan would be published in a magazine strictly connected to the Holy See by statute, and representative of its official stance.

But the fact that the essay's principal author is a Jesuit from "La Civiltà Cattolica," and that it was published by an authoritative Catholic journal like "Studium," are still important indications.

Those who have read "La rabbia e l'orgoglio [Rage and Pride]" and other writings on Islam by Oriana Fallaci - an author of worldwide fame who has lived in New York for many years - will find many points in common with hers in the essay by Bertacchini and Vanzan.

Oriana Fallaci is an extremely harsh critic of the religious and cultural factors that, in her view, feed into the Muslim world's challenge against the West and Christianity, which she fiercely defends in spite of being a declared atheist.

She is a great admirer of Benedict XVI, who has read a number of her books and received her in a private audience last August 1 at Castel Gandolfo.

The only substantial point that separates Oriana Fallaci's analysis from that of Bertacchini and Vanzan is that, while she maintains that Islam is incapable of reform and incompatible with the Christian West, the other two acknowledge that an integration of the two civilizations is possible, albeit extremely difficult.

And Benedict XVI is also known to acknowledge this last possibility.

Here is an extract from the much more extensive essay published in the January-February 2006 issue of "Studium":

The Islamic Question

by Roberto A.M. Bertacchini and Piersandro Vanzan S.I.

Islamic terrorism is a rather complex response to the confrontation with the West, which Islam sees as a devastating, deadly threat.

At the end of the 1980's, there was a pitched battle within the Islamist camp between the positions of Abdullah Azzam and the more extremist positions of Ayman Al-Zawahiri, a true ideologue of jihad in the form it has taken today, which includes in the category of enemy the "Herodians," or those who collaborate with the West. On November 24, 1989, Azzam was assassinated in Peshawar, and Al-Zawahiri had an open field.

For the zealots, everything that comes from the outside is like poison to their traditional ways of life, so they hold that there is only one way to avert cultural catastrophe: expel the invader and hermetically seal off the borders, so nothing can pollute or corrupt their miniature world. This is, in part, the position of Osama Bin Laden, who is opposed to the American presence, not only in Iraq, but also in Saudi Arabia.

But this defensive program would never work against Western civilization. Unlike all previous civilizations, it is not localized or territorially circumscribed. The pervasiveness of the global village is such that there is only one way to escape its grasp: destroy it. And this is Al-Zawahiri's ideological program, which he pursues with a complex strategy. For the formula of "modernizing Islam," he substitutes another: "Islamizing modernity," and therefore the West.

Within the Muslim world, Islamization means de-Westernizing everything: from political and cultural institutions to economic ones, even to the point of rethinking banking operations. On the outside, it means spreading Islam through vigorous missionary activity, in both Europe and the United States: this activity is supported above all by Saudia Arabia. But according to the most radical interpretations, Islamizing the West means violently attacking its political and economic power, without sparing the civilian population.

This pan-Islamist program might make some smirk, just as many smirked at Hitler before his political ascent. But this is a real program, which is being carried out according to a clear plan, and although it is working slowly, it is producing results.

That this is a real program can be seen in many ways.

* * *

The first piece of macroscopic data is that from Afghanistan to Kashmir to Chechnya to Ossetia to the Philippines to Saudi Arabia to Bosnia to Kosovo to Palestine to Egypt to Algeria to Morocco, sizeable groups have unleashed a war against the West. It is impossible to think that these attacks are completely independent from each other.

The second piece of macroscopic data is terrorism, especially if one has the patience to follow the thread that extends from July 7, 2005 to 1969, and the airplane from the Rome Fiumicino airport that Leila Khaled hijacked and blew up in Damascus.

1972 was the year of the Olympics in Munich and the massacre that happened there. But before that, on August 16 of that same year, an airplane headed for Tel Aviv was blown up by a record player rigged with explosives that a couple of English tourists had received from two Arabic men who had been romancing them. Thinking about it today brings chills: Al-Qaeda is a new and closely related phenomenon. Courting two women in order to carry out an attack means being deeply steeped in ideology. And it means that there is a connection between ideology and organization - you can't just pick up an exploding record player at the local hardware store. Unless two Arabs happened to meet two tourists going to Tel Aviv, and then happened to get the idea of carrying out an attack, and again happened to have a friend at the ready to provide them with the surprise package. But already in 1970, six airplanes had been hijacked or blown up on the ground or during flight.

The conditions for carrying out the attack of August 16, 1972, were so complex that they required a plan constructed over years, assisted by excellent propaganda systems and economic and human resources of the highest caliber. People's sense morality cannot be altered in the blink of an eye. The young women were probably attractive, and there may have been some tenderness in them. Placing this episode side by side with the massacre at the school in Beslan in 2004, with one hundred fifty children killed, with those three days of torment in the gymnasium and the torture of withholding water, with the girls who were first raped and then killed, we see a ferocity at work that is so opposed to the common sense of morality that it must be sustained by an absolute ideological commitment. And such an ideology, which has religious foundations, requires that the theologians themselves weave together the theoretical justifications for terror.

The third piece of evidence is anti-Zionism. Let's take a look at the sequence of events. Anti-Zionism is evident in the first attacks of the 1970's: the episode in Munich makes this utterly clear. In 1973, we had the war of Yom Kippur, which again saw the Islamic countries forced to concede defeat. But on October 16 and 17 of that year, during the Syro-Egyptian war against Israel, OPEC held a conference in Kuwait City that established: a) the quadrupling of the price of crude oil; b) the embargo against the United States, Denmark, and Holland; c) the progressive reduction of the amount of oil extracted; d) the effort to extend the embargo to countries that would not accept their conditions; e) including among their political conditions the acceptance of the withdrawal of Israel from the occupied territories on the part of their economic partners, the recognition of the Palestinians, the presence of the PLO at the peace negotiations, and the application of UN resolution 242. It is a positive fact that the Islamic countries did not recognize the newly established state of Israel. And Saddam Hussein's hostility towards Israel was evident to the very end. So there is a clear convergence of economic, military, and terrorist policies. After the attacks on New York, Madrid, London, and Sharm El Sheik, one would have to be blind not to see the almost maniacal sense of coordination and timing in this form of Islam. But there was also coordination between the OPEC conference and the war of Yom Kippur. This sense of timing and coordination is a cultural message directed toward the Muslim world itself, an eminent means of asserting that Islam is united and coordinated.

The fourth indication is missionary activity, and the fifth is immigration. Aisha Farina, an Italian woman from Milan who converted to Islam and has publicly expressed her veneration for Bin Laden as for a reliable guide, said this: "Maybe all the Italians will end up converting. In any case, we will conquer you peacefully, because our numbers double every generation, but you are at zero growth."

But Islam is advancing in other ways, too. In Mazara del Vallo in Sicily, since the end of the 1970's there has been a Tunisian community that obtained permission to preserve its identity in all respects, with Tunisian schools, teachers sent from Tunisia, Tunisian laws, etc. So although polygamy is illegal there, it is tolerated. In other places, Muslims open unauthorized schools, but no intervention is made. Infibulation is practiced on women, but no one is put on trial. One the whole, this creates an asymmetry among citizens before the law, by virtue of which some minorities are first protected, but then become privileged. And this proves the incompatibility of radical multiculturalism and the rule of law.

But there is an obstacle to this strategy: the American troops on Islamic soil. From this are derived two political stances that differ not according to the result they seek, but according to the strategies they employ. In fact, Bin Laden - but also Iran, and perhaps Pakistan - thinks that the oil pump will, in the end, be less influential than the nuclear trigger. Two reasons are given for why blackmail using oil supplies cannot last for long: one is that if the price of crude is raised too high, other sources of energy will become more economically attractive. The other is that, when the West is really put into a bind, it will react with force. That is why a different strategy is necessary, which, by bringing the war into the heart of Europe and America, blocks the use of nuclear weapons. But doing this requires an enormous amount of money and control of the political power that is now in the hands of less radical Muslims. So the terrorist political approach proceeds along two parallel guidelines: fighting the "moderate" Islamic regimes and carrying out spectacular attacks in the West, in order to reinforce its own prestige in the eyes of the Muslim world and establish itself as a legitimate guide. If these are the plausible scenarios, the politics of George W. Bush also takes on an entirely different meaning. It is the politics of the "countertrigger." The validity of this option is yet to be verified.

The sixth and final piece of evidence is the feelings of joy expressed by the Islamic population in the public squares, on websites, and even in the press after September 11, 2001, and also after the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, which the Kuwait daily "Al'Siyassa" called "a soldier sent by God." If one comes to the point of rejoicing at horrible things, this joy breaks off natural human solidarity and sharpens the meaning of the expression "infidel dogs." A massacre of dogs doesn't affect me; they are not human. This is racism, and one must begin with calling it by its name, and then arrive at the appropriate consequences.

* * *

In short, the Islamization of the West is neither a phantasm nor merely something feared: it is an intention and a fact that emerges from an objective examination of the evidence.

Moderate Islam, properly so called, does not exist because there is no institutional and moderate form of Islamic theology. There are moderate Muslims, and some of them see things with a clear and long-term perspective. But Islam itself, or rather the institutional religious culture of the Muslims, has reacted in its encounter with modernity by entrenching itself in fundamentalist positions. And this is true not only in Iran or Pakistan, but also in Egypt.

There is, therefore, an objective convergence between the trend in Islamic theology and the ideology of the terrorists. Fortunately, not all the imams have the same zeal for jihad, but the problem is that there is no moderate Islam, or rather there does not exist an Islamic theology that has integrated modernity. This is why it would not only be prudent, as cardinal Giacomo Biffi has suggested, to discourage Islamic immigration in Europe, it would be masochistic to encourage it without demanding reciprocation in terms of integration.

Islam is not compatible with liberal democracies for stronger and deeper reasons than those that usually come to mind: it is not only a question of polygamy, the veil, Friday religious observance, etc. That is, it is not only a problem of the rules of behavior, morals, and worship. It is seen in how Islam functions on its home turf. In Iran, there are mullahs who are appointed to supervise morality. And apart from peering into the bedroom, many more of them scrutinize the cinema, the press, and books: this is the monitoring of the public expressions of thought, which are censured if they are not in conformity with shari'a or the Qur'an and its official interpretation. A professor cannot say what he likes at school, and if an intellectual publishes his own views, he is taking a risk.

By way of explaining this issue, it is true that the Church did not abolish the index of prohibited books until Vatican II, but before it was abolished this institution did not carry any weight in civil affairs. That's not how it is in Islam. Religious censure is "ipso facto" civil censure, because the religious authorities have civil authority, and vice versa. The entire spectrum of these and other related facts calls for intellectual honesty on our part, because we cannot interpret them as isolated cases devoid of general significance. And if these are not isolated cases, only one conclusion can be drawn: the word "freedom" did not exist in Arabic for centuries because Islamic civilization simply makes no provision for it (it was introduced with the word "hurriyya," meaning "entitlement," only in 1774, and out of the necessity of signing treaties with Westerners). So the absolutism of Saudi Arabia or other emirates, the legal inferiority of women and so forth, are not correctible eccentricities. They are the effects of a deep-rooted cause, which cannot be removed without destroying Islam. And this is why these eccentricities are so fiercely defended: because they have an intrinsic relationship with Muslim identity. And therefore integration can be achieved with Muslims on an individual basis, but not with Islam.

Unfortunately, open and liberal society becomes paralyzed when it encounters a closed and incompatible civilization. The problem of tolerance was worked out within Christian civilization in order to defuse its internal conflicts. But its introduction made sense, because tolerance was a value recognized by all parties, in that it was able to find a theological foundation.

But in Islam, there is no foundation for tolerance in the broad sense that characterizes our secular societies. Freedom of the press does not make sense. The Middle Ages had Boccaccio, and the Renaissance had Pietro Aretino. But in a much less offensive case, Islam censured the mathematician and poet Omar Khayyam (1048-1122) for talking about wine and drunkenness. And the fact that he was rehabilitated to some extent in Iran at the end of the twentieth century does not represent the sort of openness that one would like to believe it does. In Saudi Arabia, Islam protects itself by banning even the visible wearing of a necklace with a cross. But how can it protect itself in Europe? It's not just the problem of girls wearing jeans. It is the problem of schools, newspapers, labor unions, women in leadership roles, cinema, television, libraries: it is the West in the sum total of its institutions that is a threat to Islam. And not because it wants to be, but simply because it exists. Like Israel.

* * *

The necessity for extensive self-criticism on relations with Islam, one that would finally emerge from a blind and suicidal "niceness," is therefore unavoidable.

Dialoguing with those who have, in the back of their minds, the idea of Islamizing us and reducing us to dhimmi status, as subjects of an inferior order, simply makes no sense. Dialogue with moderate Muslims should not only be pursued; it should be increased, and the moderates supported in every way possible, even more so than the support that was given to the anti-Soviet resistance. But these forms of openness must be combined with a politics of distrust and suspicion, which would tighten the net as much as possible and utterly discourage the presence of the Islamizers in Europe. These are, in fact, the ideological column of terrorism: you cannot fight the one without opposing the other.

In order to enter the banquet, one must wear the wedding garment, which we must demand of those who knock on our door. It is a garment that makes acceptance dependant upon the observance of our laws. Otherwise we cannot prevent some mosques, centers of Islamic culture, and circuits of electronic preaching from cultivating hatred against us. And that's just it, hatred - a sentiment toward which we have for too long shown a suicidal tolerance. It is a sentiment that renders social life impossible.

And anyway, it would be too sad if everything were to end this way. We should, instead, be the prophetic proponents of a phase of tolerance and integration.

From the point of view of intercultural relations, a certain reduction of the level of secularism in Western societies is probably necessary, and this will not happen without overcoming great resistance. But from the point of view of Islamic theology, the road ahead is not so obvious, in part because their cultural centers seem like fortresses that will be difficult to expunge. One way that might be practicable is that of returning to the great mystics of the Muslim world: for example, Rabi'a or Al-Hallaji. But Al-Hallaji was martyred by a caliph, and not by the Christians. So this problem is connected with that of the theoretical and practical possibility for a pluralistic Islamic theology. We think that the problem is a an arduous one, but that it would be equally wrong to maintain either that it is insurmountable or that it does not exist.

And this also holds true on the political level. Today's Islam presents Europe with the problem of the civil recognition of its identity. This is a serious problem, which Christianity has not been able to present on its own behalf with the same forcefulness. Finding a solution on a basis of equity - of harmonizing and safeguarding the rights of all religious groups in the same way - will not be easy, but it is unthinkable that a Muslim minority would be granted the civil protection of its identity and the cultural recognition that the secularism sprung from the French Enlightenment presumes to withhold from the Christian majority.

__________

The website of the journal in which the essay by Bertacchini and Vanzan was published:

> "Studium"

__________

On this website, previous articles on this topic:

> Focus on ISLAM

__________

English translation by Matthew Sherry: traduttore@hotmail.com

For the latest articles go to the English home page:

> www.chiesa.espressonline.it

Sandro Magister's e-mail address is s.magister@espressoedit.it

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AHMADINEJAD....
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/168923a383917185
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:43 pm
From: renigg'ade@enngl'coon.biz (The Rev'd)

On 12 Apr 2006 17:22:16 -0700, "Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>DoD wrote:
>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:Nlf%f.23$Jk3.13@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> > .... WOULD BE PRETTY STUPID NOT TO DEVELOP A NUKE OR TWO, CONSIDERING THE
>> > FACT THAT NO COUNTRY IN MIDDLE EAST IS SAFE FROM BEING COLONIZED BY BUSH!
>>
>> If they were not developing any weapons there would be a dramatic reduction
>> of the chance of being colonized.
>
>'Colonised' is a good one. Can you imagine any
>sane person wanting to live in any of these God-
>forsaken countries?

Some of you a"holes want to live in 'Israel'. Enough said.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:47 pm
From: "DoD"

"The Rev'd" <renigg'ade@enngl'coon.biz> wrote in message
news:443dd6c2.1233503@news.onetel.net.uk...
> On 12 Apr 2006 17:22:16 -0700, "Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>DoD wrote:
>>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Nlf%f.23$Jk3.13@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>> > .... WOULD BE PRETTY STUPID NOT TO DEVELOP A NUKE OR TWO, CONSIDERING
>>> > THE
>>> > FACT THAT NO COUNTRY IN MIDDLE EAST IS SAFE FROM BEING COLONIZED BY
>>> > BUSH!
>>>
>>> If they were not developing any weapons there would be a dramatic
>>> reduction
>>> of the chance of being colonized.
>>
>>'Colonised' is a good one. Can you imagine any
>>sane person wanting to live in any of these God-
>>forsaken countries?
>
> Some of you a"holes want to live in 'Israel'. Enough said.

If you had a choice of which country you would want to be stuck in with a
major operation pending, would it be Israel or some Arab country?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Passover and the Ignored Liberation <---- Good read
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bd6c86674f9e8c04
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:41 pm
From: renigg'ade@enngl'coon.biz (The Rev'd)

On 12 Apr 2006 16:38:29 -0700, "Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>DoD wrote:
>> "jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
>> news:1144861900.428193.149640@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> > Amen and Happy Passover. And may the Good Lord send the
>> > plagues upon them so that they will be too busy burying their children
>> > to bother with killing ours.
>>
>> ;o)
>
>Great article and a great concept.
>
>I wonder how much better things would
>be without Middle Eastern oil.

They'd be even better without Middle Eastern jews.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: British MP Calls for Sanctions Against Israel
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/37724ea584282821
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:44 pm
From: renigg'ade@enngl'coon.biz (The Rev'd)

On 12 Apr 2006 17:51:57 -0700, "Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com>
wrote:

>It's only Kaufman the Kapo.

It's Kaufman the jew.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bangla Terrorist Groups Involved In Varanasi Bomb Blats
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee4fc3538a948b81
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 12 2006 9:45 pm
From: "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101@dont.reply>

"baani" <baani.t@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144852177.999499.77220@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Seeker,
>
> We were discussing per capita income & GDP. To calculate GDP-
> Depreciation is added to the income. If you deduct depreciation from
> total income you will arrive at Net National Product (NNP).
>
> As of now GDP is divided by total population of the country to arrive
> at per capita income.
>
> Now your query:
> Seeker wrote
> GDP does not take into account how much money Pakistanis have in
> > banks, property etc.
>
> GDP includes the interest factor earned on any money kept in your bank
> account. Also it includes includes depreciation so investement in
> property is also compensated.
>
> Seeker wrote
> Very good. Are you an accountant? BTW, we remove deperiation from net
> income
> to come up with the real income.
>
> No I am not an accountant.Just an informed citizen . And if we remove
> depreciation from Income we arrive at NNP.

Accounting rules are different in every country. You can't learn all about
accounting by reading websites etc. It is a complicated matter because of
the very reasons we are having this discussion.

>
>
>
> Seeker wrote:
> > "baani" <baani.t@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1144768099.591472.183890@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > > Per capita income is total income of the country/ total population. It
> > > > > includes all kinds of income mesaurable in monetary terms- so even
> > > > > personal wealth of pakistanis was also taken into account while
> > > > > calculating it..
> > > >
> > > > No, it only takes the average incremental income (even that is a
rough
> > > > measure). Wealth (i.e. assets etc) are not included. Also, GDP is
based
> > on
> > > > numbers reported by each government. CIA is not collecting original
> > data. If
> > > > "gunjan.ghai" thinks that Pakistan is screwed up, then surely he
can't
> > quote
> > > > numbers reported by Pakistan as air tight facts. But I blame
> > gunjan.ghai's
> > > > education for this lack of critical thinking ability.
> > >
> > >
> > > Value of Assets can never be taken as a part of income.
> >
> > Asset is a sum of liability and equity. Retained earnings contribute to
> > equity. GDP does not take into account how much money Pakistanis have in
> > banks, property etc.
> >
> > >Depreciation is
> > > added to the total income to compensate for the use of assets.
> >
> > Very good. Are you an accountant? BTW, we remove deperiation from net
income
> > to come up with the real income.
> >
> > >
> > > Seeker wrote:
> > > > "baani" <baani.t@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1144754573.280737.156990@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > Seeker,
> > > > >
> > > > > Per capita income is total income of the country/ total
population. It
> > > > > includes all kinds of income mesaurable in monetary terms- so even
> > > > > personal wealth of pakistanis was also taken into account while
> > > > > calculating it..
> > > >
> > > > No, it only takes the average incremental income (even that is a
rough
> > > > measure). Wealth (i.e. assets etc) are not included. Also, GDP is
based
> > on
> > > > numbers reported by each government. CIA is not collecting original
> > data. If
> > > > "gunjan.ghai" thinks that Pakistan is screwed up, then surely he
can't
> > quote
> > > > numbers reported by Pakistan as air tight facts. But I blame
> > gunjan.ghai's
> > > > education for this lack of critical thinking ability.
> > > >
> > > > >The one thing that it is not indicative off is
> > > > > distribution of income within the country.
> > > >
> > > > True.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Seeker wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > These numbers don't take into account the personal wealth of
average
> > > > > > Pakistanis. It simply states what the per-capita income may be
in a
> > > > given
> > > > > > year based on domestic marginal product of labor.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>

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