soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:

* Why are you hiding from these questions? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/22d3fda195c2c625
* The Videotape Recorder Turns 50 - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66386290480d314c
* Cheney in the "last throws" of his vice-presidency - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c2fa3718460e135e
* Where are all the great ruins of the Negro nations? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5cfe37852f40f77c
* GOP term-limit pledges get left behind - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/115d260be8bba419
* Tito And His Yugoslave Communists Killed 1,172,000 People - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8d023af566611b9a
* Busta Rhymez Facing BOYCOTT In Da `Hood? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/edaa6d8ec02f8e
* The American Jewish Committe pushes Iran war - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/798b813415643838
* Pimping Da Oscarz - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f989acbec3d530be
* Time For Blacks To Declare A Culture War? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/573fb76db7781873
* Church trying to prevent child abuse prosecutions - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/59051f353a5f097f
* Black Scholar Fearz Future of Young Black Men - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2e5f10360af7e066
* Shocking Pictures OF UGLY KHOOOOOOORDEEEEESH TERRORISTS from Turkey! - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/628595681c318dac
* Croatia's Zdenko Kozul Wins European Chess Championship - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/4b9fa4be9309a931
* Generals report Rumsfeld incompetence; Bush responds, "Attaboy, Rummy!" - 3
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f1707ebfbe4b5f38
* Burma Digest (16.4.2006): A New Battle Has Begun - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/827ed3923f14ab23
* Empire, Inequality, and the Arrogance Of Power - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/16d834397b474b1f
* Generals Break With Tradition A Cry For Help - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c3da8a817ed7dd1a
* Physicist says Thermite heat substance felled WTC - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/abf837d229b6d170

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why are you hiding from these questions?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/22d3fda195c2c625
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 3:07 pm
From: "A Brick In the Wall"

Could it be you know the answers will make your pinhead explode?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:21 pm
From: "Fact Attack"

the predictable republican slogan will be one word.

TERRORISTS!!

And they'll win again.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Videotape Recorder Turns 50
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66386290480d314c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:09 pm
From: "Joe Gillis"

http://tvtechnology.com/features/news/2006.04.12-n_the_video_tape_02.shtml

The Videotape Recorder Turns 50

Routine NAB preview event showcased revolutionary technology

by James E. O'Neal

The Ampex video recorder is unveiled at the NARTB show in Chicago,
April 14, 1956.

FALLS CHURCH, VA.: In an age when video cameras and recording devices
are virtually everywhere, it's difficult to believe that it wasn't
always possible to walk into a Wal-Mart or Best Buy store with $50 and
leave with a new video recorder.

The science of magnetically recording video images is so mature today
that it's taken completely for granted, but that was not always the
case. Television broadcasting as we know it appeared in the mid-1930s.
Video recording technology lagged by another 20 years.

BREAKTHROUGH

Imagine a large meeting room 50 years ago filled with 200 people
assembled for a more or less routine briefing. The only thing slightly
out of the ordinary is a video camera trained on the speaker and some
monitors sprinkled around the room. However, television is no longer a
stranger and the presence of even large tube-type cameras of that era
had become fairly routine.

The event was a Saturday pre-NAB (then the National Association of
Radio and Television Broadcasters) meeting of CBS affiliate owners and
managers. The setting was the Normandie Lounge in Chicago's Conrad
Hilton, the speaker was William Lodge, CBS engineering vice president
and the date was April 14, 1956.

During his remarks, Lodge mentioned a new technological breakthrough,
but was not specific. At the conclusion of his address, he remained at
the podium. As the crowd began to murmur and break up, the video
monitors went from black to an image of Lodge. Only this time, Lodge
was still making his presentation, not standing silently.

This was a seeming impossibility, as the only means for preserving
video images was kinescope recording, a process in which a special
motion picture camera photographed a television monitor. When the
recording was finished, the film had to be removed and sent away for
developing. Under normal circumstances, this could take hours.

The crowd, realizing that they were experiencing something very
unusual, became hushed and locked onto the monitors, viewing an image
of Lodge that was indistinguishable from the video seen just moments
before. Again, this was quite uncanny, as even the best "kine" had a
distinctive look that set it apart from the live video it had captured.

Then a curtain opened, revealing a strange machine and four individuals
hovering around it. The crowd couldn't restrain itself and amid cheers,
whistles, back slappings and applause, began pushing and pressing in
around the world's first video recorder and part of the team that had
made it possible. Some even stood in chairs to get a better look at the
device that was making this miracle possible.

That was the scene 50 years ago this month.

Practical video recording had been born. The machine was the Ampex Mark
IV VTR prototype, which was to become the VRX-1000, the great-granddad
of all video recorders. It was the star of the convention and even
though Ampex had set a selling price of $45,000 for production models
(more than $320,000 in 2006 dollars), orders were written that week for
more than 70 machines. (Market research conducted prior to the show
indicated that there would be a demand for no more than a dozen
globally.)

CBS got the first delivery and put it on the air in late November that
year to air the West Coast feed of "Douglas Edwards and the News."

This eliminated the requirement for Edwards to have to repeat his
broadcast for the Pacific Time Zone. However, as the video recording
technology was so new, CBS made kinescope recordings as backup and had
them at the ready "just in case" during the first month of the new
machine's use.

Recording of video goes back to the late 1920s when television pioneer
John Logie Baird made recordings of his 30 line images on ordinary 78
rpm phonograph records. What was so special about the Ampex recorder
and why did it take so long to come to market?

Those who can't remember a world without VTRs perhaps have little
comprehension of the tremendous technical challenges involved in
electronically recording television images. To put the problem in
perspective, magnetic audio recording evolved over several decades and
by the late 1940s was fairly mature when Ampex introduced its first
audio machine.

To capture and reproduce high-quality audio, a recording device needs
to have a passband of some 20 Hz to 18,000 Hz, or about 10 octaves. To
record acceptable video, this had to be stretched to 18 octaves.

Other groups had been working on video recording schemes for at least
five years prior to the success of Ampex. All relied on pulling tape
past fixed heads at high speeds.

The BBC's efforts resulted in a machine known as VERA (Vision
Electronic Recording Apparatus). It moved 1/2-inch tape at 16 feet per
second, with a 21-inch reel of tape providing a mere 15 minutes of
recording time. Video response was capped off at 3 MHz and heavy
leather gloves to provide assistance with reel braking were part of the
operator's toolset.

Another U.S. group established by Jack Mullin, the engineer who
introduced audio tape recording to America, and funded by singer Bing
Crosby, also devised a longitudinal video recorder. This machine spread
the video across multiple tracks on a 1-inch tape running at a mere 120
inches per second. It made pictures, but as the response topped off at
a bit over 1.5 MHz, it really wasn't up to broadcast applications.

Not one to be left out or outdone, RCA's David Sarnoff mandated that
his R&D people build a video recorder. In a rather questionable move,
the top audio engineer there, Harry Olson, was given the job. Even
though RCA held a patent on rotary head recording, Olson simply tried
to scale up a conventional audio transport to do the job.

His first machine used 1/2-inch tape pulled at 30 feet per second. It
took 7,200 feet of tape to provide four minutes of recording time and
the pictures were not much better than those of the other groups. As
relatively crude as the kinescope recording process was, none of these
video recording technologies could equal its quality, storage time and
ease in handling.

Ampex engineers early on saw the futility of longitudinal recording for
video and based their efforts on a rotating head design first patented
for audio in 1938 by an Italian inventor. The Ampex work was kept under
wraps, and due to changing economics, was actually terminated at one
point. This group consisted of Charles Ginsburg, the team leader;
Charles Anderson, FM expert; Ray Dolby, then an engineering student and
later a household name in the audio field; Shelby Henderson, master
machinist and model maker; Alex Maxey, the mechanical genius behind the
rotary head design, and Fred Pfost, who solved the problem of making
practical high-speed recording heads.

In addition to discarding high-speed longitudinal tape movement for
achieving the necessary writing speed, the Ampex team also realized
that FM offered some advantages not available with conventional
recording technology, and could possibly help in squeezing those
additional octaves onto tape. Research was started on an FM system that
smacked of heresy--the carrier frequency was very near the highest
modulating frequency and conventional wisdom dictated that the carrier
frequency must be at least 10 times that frequency.

The carrier frequency was dictated by available tape head technology
and this rather revolutionary FM system resulted in some mathematically
interesting consequences (sidebands which could fold over into the
desired signals). Nevertheless, the thing worked, and worked better
than any AM signal system could have, producing a greatly improved S/N
ratio and compressing the necessary 18 octaves into the space of three.

The video recorder shown to the crowds in Chicago, and destined to set
the standard for all video recording, used a special 3M 2-inch tape, a
four-head quadraplex or "quad" rotating head assembly and pulled tape
along at a sane 15 inches per second. It could provide up to 90 minutes
of recording time and recorded the full 4.2 MHz bandwidth needed for
525-line television.

FAR FROM PERFECT

These early machines were bulky (they could not fit through an ordinary
doorway), weighed more than 1,000 pounds and the scores of vacuum tubes
used consumed a very substantial amount of electricity.

An external supply of compressed air and a vacuum system were necessary
for operation. Operational costs were extremely high by today's
standards. An hour's worth of 2-inch tape cost hundreds of dollars and
the life of the machine's video recording head assembly was measured at
best in just a few hundred hours. This figure was sometimes much lower
and head refurbishment costs amounted to $1,000 or more.

The recorders were finicky and required a highly skilled operator and a
fairly intensive setup and adjustment period before each use. A great
deal of heavy maintenance and specialized tools were needed to keep
them operational.

Video was not instantly available, as the machines took several seconds
to get up to speed and stabilize. This required care on the part of
operators and TDs in making sure that the requisite back timing and
pre-roll were done. Due to mechanical differences in the rotating head
assemblies, none of the early machines produced recordings that were
really fully interchangeable.

The networks got around this by making sure that the head assembly used
for recording also did the playback. This had to be carried out in the
extreme if a show was recorded in Los Angeles and then played back in
New York. In such cases, the video head was removed from the recorder
and shipped along with the tape. Still, the convenience and video
quality made the machine an instant success.

RCA saw the handwriting and scrubbed their longitudinal recorder R&D
work, licensed Ampex technology and shortly rolled out their own quad
machine, the TRT-1. RCA was the only other serious competitor to Ampex
and in the years that followed, a tech war of sorts evolved between the
companies.

Improvements were fast and numerous: air bearing heads, rotary
transformers to replace slip rings, time base correction technologies,
color recording, genlockable servo systems, high band recording,
velocity compensation, electronic editing, better head alloys,
low-noise tape coatings, vacuum column tape handling... the list of
these "one-up-manships" continued right on up until the end of 2-inch
recording developments in the 1970s.

Ampex's quad design endured for well over 20 years, until it was
gradually displaced by 1-inch type "C" helical scan technology.

An incredible 50 years later, there are some quad machines out there
still at work. According to Pat Johnston, director of project
management for AheadTek, his company is rebuilding about 200 quad heads
per year.

RCA is now just a dimming memory in the broadcasting landscape. Ampex
continued to build new VTR models into the dawning of the digital age,
but was essentially out of broadcast video recording by the end of the
millennium. The company name still exists in connection with data
recording and archival storage technology, but isn't seen much in
television stations anymore.

With the advent of digital television and the DVD and hard-drive video
recording that it spawned, videotape use is on the wane. Some of the
biggest producers of magnetic tape pulled out of the market years ago.
The phrases "tapeless television station" and "the end of tape" entered
the vernacular at least 10 years ago.

With the exception of data cartridges for archival recording, these
prognostications may well may come to pass. Even that application
appears shaky, as data packing advances in optical disc recording
methodologies seem destined to surpass what can be done with magnetic
storage.

For decades, video recording quality has been such that it is
indistinguishable from live video. Recording devices have become so
reliable and commonplace that no one is excited in the least by the
words "video recording."

Still there are a few remaining from that crowd, who, 50 Aprils ago,
witnessed the first demonstration of real video recording and who
remember the electricity and shivers of excitement that went with it.
There are many more that recall their initial encounter with videotape
and the fascination that came with it--the solid snap as the guide shoe
engaged; the pleasing, almost musical "buzz" produced by that massive,
yet very delicate, rotary head assembly spinning at its 14,400 rpm
rate; and the smell of the tape coating as the heads literally tore
into it.

An early video recording textbook described the rotary head recording
process as one in which the head's pole pieces "created a localized
dimple, moving across the tape." Actually, something far more profound
happened as the heads moved. They froze time and left behind moving
images for future generations to witness and enjoy. They also launched
a business that has become the single largest element in broadcasting
and a technology that has become an integral part of hundreds, if not
thousands of other businesses.

What Was It Like?

There is a special kind of captivation or fascination that goes along
with being witness to an event destined to have historic significance.

John T. Moore, the youngest witness to the Wright brothers
accomplishment in December 1903 was reported to have run down the beach
at Kitty Hawk yelling at the top of his lungs to anyone listening,
"They done it! They done it! Damned if they ain't flew."

This atmosphere was certainly present that Saturday in April 1956 when
Ampex showed the world it had perfected a video recorder.

If anyone should know what the situation was like in the Hilton's
Normandie Lounge, it would have to be Charles Anderson, one of the
Ampex VTR design team members who was there with the Mark IV machine.
As Anderson described it:

"The (CBS) affiliates meeting was in the Normandie Lounge, the foyer of
a ballroom. We were in an alcove there with the machine, behind a
curtain. No one knew we were there. CBS had cameras and monitors
scattered around the lounge, but that was nothing unusual.

"There were a lot of people in the room and on cue we started to
record. Bill Lodge was explaining to the group that there was something
new they wanted to show. On another cue, we rewound the tape and
started playing it back.

"All of a sudden, there was a deafening silence.

"Did we screw up somehow?

"Then came a roar. The curtain was opened and people started to swarm
back around the machine. Before we knew it, we were knee deep in
people."

Anderson recalled that Charles Ginsburg, Fred Pfost and Phil Gumby were
with him that day.

"That machine was demo-ed a lot. It was a very successful show for the
network. That night, Ginsburg and I went out with Blair Benson from CBS
to the Blue Angel to celebrate. Ginsburg was dancing on the tabletop."

Pfost also recalled the silence that initially ensued once the playback
started.

"There was total silence for about 15 seconds. Then people began to
realize what they were looking at. It made such an impression on me
that I get tears in my eyes telling the story. People screamed and
clapped for probably 10 minutes."

After that presentation finally ended, Ampex executives realized from
the reaction of the crowd that the company had a hit on its hands. The
CBS demonstration had been just that--a closed-door session for invited
guests. It was hastily decided to rent hotel space to exhibit the VTR
for the balance of the show. Anderson remembers that part of the
experience as not being so euphoric:

"Very early the next morning [Sunday], the VP was on the phone with
orders to move the videotape machine. We weren't at our best from the
night before, but we went ahead and moved it there. From then on there
was a steady stream of people throughout the rest of the show."

Pfost also recalled relocating the recorder.

"After the demo we took the machine up to the fourth or fifth floor in
the hotel. For the rest of the show that room was totally full. At the
end of the week, the orders for machines amounted to more money than
Ampex had been doing in a whole year. We went back [to Redwood City]
and had to figure out how to build all these machines."

Ray Dolby stayed behind in Redwood City to demonstrate video recording
for members of the press and Ampex executives. The reaction was similar
to that in Chicago, according to Dolby.

"Everyone was enthusiastic, there was a lot of applause and laughing
and clapping... but on the other hand, you have to remember this was an
engineering lab, not a plush hotel room, as they had in Chicago," he
said.

Even so, sales orders were being written on an almost non-stop basis.
According to one source, Ampex ran out of sales forms and was writing
orders on any scrap of paper they had at hand.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:10 pm
From: "Rohan"

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TOPIC: Cheney in the "last throws" of his vice-presidency
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c2fa3718460e135e
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:11 pm
From: beachshark1@yahoo.com

Dick Cheney got roundly booed throwing out the first pitch at opening
day for the Nationals. The vice-president's pitch hit the dirt in
front of the plate, but immediately the White House Press Corps issued
a statement saying it was a successful strike.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where are all the great ruins of the Negro nations?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5cfe37852f40f77c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:18 pm
From: Von Bailey

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:36:52 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:48:07 -0700, Von Bailey
><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:54:06 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" James Crow" <dont_let_the_sun_go_down_on_you_bw@h.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:drrmvi$vfj$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aztecs, Mayans, Egyptians, Babylonians, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They all had their great buildings and their great empires with plenty of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruins and evidence to show it. Egyptians are famous for their great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pyramids, Aztecs and Mayans had temples and cities, Romans had colosseums,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chinese had the great wall... all evidence of great empires.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone help me find a link to the great Sub-Saharan Negro Pyramids, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great Negro Wall, or how about the great paved roads connecting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greatand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superior Negro Empires. I would like to see great stone Negro castles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evidence of bronze swords and armor, the great Negro Aqueducts that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spanned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for miles, and the Great Negro Architectural bridges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So where are all these sub-Saharan nations that ya read about in books
>>>>>>>>>that existed before the War? How many? 20? 30? Name them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Three or four come to mind...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ghana, with a history that listed 44 Kings before Christ and as far
>>>>>>>>back as the 7th century BC. It was known as the "Land of Gold"
>>>>>>>>because it supplied the mineral on an international basis and had an
>>>>>>>>iron industry for over a thousand years. Using the Niger and lesser
>>>>>>>>rivers in the empire they were able to build a system of cities and
>>>>>>>>towns that produced commercial goods for the world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not as independent nation, but a collection of regional tribes, and
>>>>>>>then later a British colony as part of its so-called Gold Coast.
>>>>>>>Ghana did not become a nation until 1957, 12 years *after* the War.
>>>>>>>Try again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>They imported salt, textiles, cowrie shells, brass, dates, figs,
>>>>>>>>pearls, fruit, sugar, dried rasins and hoone. Some of heir chief
>>>>>>>>exports were gold, ivory, rubber. In 1060, the impreial army numbered
>>>>>>>>200,000 of which 100,000 were mounted and 40,000 were expertly trained
>>>>>>>>bow and arrow brigades. Their most famous schools were Kumbi-Saleh
>>>>>>>>and Dejenne (also known as Kumbi-Kumbi and Jenne respectively) and a
>>>>>>>>world renowned school called The University fo Sankore was at Timbuktu
>>>>>>>>(just north of Ghana).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mali, under the rule of Muslim kings, the greatest of which was Mansa
>>>>>>>>Musa, who wanted to be known as the greatest Black Muslim in all of
>>>>>>>>Africa. Under his rule Mali indulged in international trade. By the
>>>>>>>>mid 1300's Mali was an empire of it's own right. It controled the
>>>>>>>>salt mines of Taghaza, encompassed Nigeria in the east and Fulani in
>>>>>>>>the west.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nope. Mali become a nation in 1960.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Songhay, their most prosperous time during the 15th and 16th
>>>>>>>>centuries. It had a long history of dias (kings) that coul be traced
>>>>>>>>back to the 7th century. They had gained control over the main
>>>>>>>>caravan city in western Africa Gao. With this as a foundation they
>>>>>>>>built a nation that lasted until the mid 1600s.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Mossi States, an amagamation of kingdoms with common values and
>>>>>>>>kinship. The most prominent of which were Wagdug, Yatenga, Fada
>>>>>>>>Gurma, Mamprussi and Dagomba. They had the most successful calvary in
>>>>>>>>Africa and stood their own against the empires of Mali and Songhay.
>>>>>>>>They had a political structure that started with a King of Kings (as
>>>>>>>>each individual state had a govenor who had absolute control of his
>>>>>>>>particular state) and a prime minister.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There are quite a few more. If you're really interested (and that's
>>>>>>>>sarcastic as I know you aren't) you might start with Chancellor
>>>>>>>>Williams "The destruction of Black Civilization, Great issues of race
>>>>>>>>from 4500 B.C to 2000 A.D." It's where I got some of the information
>>>>>>>>above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>These were not nations, but as you yourself quoted above, but loose
>>>>>>>collections ("amalgamation of kingdoms") of tribes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Just look at the current state of the Congo for how they existed
>>>>>>>hundreds of years ago -- almost non-stop skirmishs between numerous
>>>>>>>regional groups (tribes) and sometimes all-out warfare.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There was a time when the losers of these battles would be sold off by
>>>>>>>the victors into slavery, and yes, pass through what is now known as
>>>>>>>Ghana on their way to the New World. So much for their "great ruins".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you for that 'non-referenced' pack of lies and ignorance about a
>>>>>>place you have demonstrated supreme stupidity about. It appears that
>>>>>>your entire knowledge of African history appears to be what you read
>>>>>>in the captions of National Geographic while looking for pictures of
>>>>>>women's breast to jack off to ass a kid.
>>>>>
_____
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The work has already been done and the evidence is in the book. Your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>inability to read a book is the only thing keeping you from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0840304587/sr=8-1/qid=1143639149/ref=sr_1_1/104-3978265-5687924?%5Fencoding=UTF8
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm not going to do your homework for you. IF the evidence exists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you need to spit it out in a coherent manner. And no, book reviews on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Amazon don't count, since anyone can go there and write a book review,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>without even having read the book.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It's not a reference to book reviews stupid, it was a source for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>book which would present the evidence in a "coherent manner". Still
>>>>>>>>>>>>running from the evidence. You would rather stay ignorant than
>>>>>>>>>>>>challenge your racist assumptions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone can write a book too. You should put forth some concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>evidence right here and now, or else withdraw your claims.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The book is the evidence stupid and until you read the book you have
>>>>>>>>>>no idea if the evidence in it is correct or not. But again, to many
>>>>>>>>>>words for you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Nope, one more time: Anyone can write a book. So I don't have time
>>>>>>>>>to read every book that comes down the pike. YOU made the claim, now
>>>>>>>>>show the "evidence" that prompted you to make this claim, or else do
>>>>>>>>>the right thing and withdraw it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thank you for admiting you don't have time to read the evidence and
>>>>>>>>also an apparent display of obtuseness. The EVIDENCE is in the book
>>>>>>>>you won't read and you aren't apparenly bright enough to realize that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Let's try this again -- anyone can write a book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If that's true, or even a relevant argument, where's your book?
>>>>>
>>>>>The first 2/3's of your sentence are true and relevant, but the last
>>>>>1/3, well that's another story.
>>>>>
>>>>Your irrelevant judgment shall be assumed another pitiful attempt to
>>>>avoid reading a book. Scared of what's in it no doubt. Harder to stay
>>>>in denial when you've actually read the evidence.
>>>
>>>IOW, you probably read a book review somewhere, or heard someone
>>>hawking the book on a talk show, and you decided well by golly there's
>>>something you can wave around as if you knew something.
>>
>>No stupid. Unlike you I read books and have read this one.
>
>Where's the proof?
>
Already provided with the quotes above and the reference in which you
can actually check. The only way you can refute my evidence is if you
read the book. Well, unless you're really a disingenuous ass hole
making falacious arguments. That's definately posible.

>>> But if I ask
>>>you to cut to the chase and show me specifics from the book, suddenly
>>>you throw it out the window and ask me to go find it, and do your
>>>research for you.
>>>
>>If reading a book is too much work for you fine. It's no secret that
>>you are ignorant and you spelling out why is informative.
>
>"It's no secret that you are ignorant" may not be a "secret" to you,
>but it's just plain wrong to everyone else.

Again the psuedo-great white man speaks for 'everyone else'.

>Now show us you
>*actually* read the book, and not just a book review somewhere.
>
Can't do that unless YOU read the book and you won't. But then you
would have to have read books to know that and apparently you haven't.

>>>>>>>So the mere fact
>>>>>>>that someone wrote one is not enough to prove anything, you cannot
>>>>>>>simply throw titles around and say go read it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's more relevant than your references to unnamed policemen,
>>>>>>libraries (but not specific books), and assumptions of things that
>>>>>>'everyone knows'
>>>>>
>>>>>Because everyone knows that I don't make stuff up out of thin air.
>>>>
>>>>That's a lie. Everyone knows no such thing and it isn't true just
>>>>because you say so.
>>>
>>>No, it's true because it is.
>>>
>>LOL. That's the usual level of your logic and I expected no more.
>
>Wrong. You expected the truth, and I gave it to you, and it hurt.
>
LOL!!! What hurt? Your obvious lies and circuclar logic? How can
that have possibly hurt me?

>>>>>Like reading *one* book that may or not have been peer reviewed, much
>>>>>less vetted and found to be reliable, then basing my claims around
>>>>>that.
>>>>>
>>>>And as usual, instead of refuting the veracity of the evidence (which
>>>>you would have to read and comprehend, something beyond your abilities
>>>>apparently) you make unfounded comments about it.
>>>
>>>Well I'm waiting for you to show some specifics from it.
>>>
>>I have alread done that. Then you commented about what you read in
>>national geographic demonstrating your ignorance.
>
>Nope, I don't suscribe to that magazine. Try again. Hint: Don't
>guess.
>
Why should I guess? Don't you know where you got your information?
Can't you site it?

>>>>>>>YOU made the claim
>>>>>>>about said evidence, so spit it out. Show me specific passages from
>>>>>>>the book that you think support your claim. If possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Like I said, you can't read a book. It would be sad if you weren't so
>>>>>>pitiful.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I can't (and won't) read YOUR books for you. *You* cited it, now
>>>>>show that you read it.
>>>>
>>>>It's not my book stupid and I've already cited it.
>>>
>>>Yes, I *know* you've cited it, just like I said.
>>
>>Then dispute what was cited with something besides your imagination.
>>Oh wait, you can't. That's the source of 99% of your diatribes.
>
>What, exactly, did you cite from the book? Specifics, please.
>
It's above stupid. In-between your non-referenced responses that make
sense only if you read enough african history to pass a junior high
school world history test in an all white class where the teacher was
ignorant on the subject.

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GOP term-limit pledges get left behind
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/115d260be8bba419
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:25 pm
From: beachshark@gmail.com

WASHINGTON - Jeff Flake pledged during his first campaign for
Congress in 2000 that if elected, he would serve three two-year terms.
But the Arizona Republican is running again to keep his seat in the
House of Representatives.
"It was a mistake to limit my own terms," says Flake, a conservative
who has challenged Republican leaders on federal spending. He says the
once-fashionable movement to limit terms in Congress has "just petered
out."

Flake is one of at least seven House Republicans who had vowed to leave
Congress next year but will be on the ballot in November. They ran as
citizen legislators - antidotes for "career politicians." But after
six or 12 years on Capitol Hill, they're not honoring their pledges.
None faces serious opposition because redistricting has protected
incumbents.

How things have changed since 1994. That year, self-described
Republican revolutionaries ran on a "Contract with America" that
promoted a constitutional amendment limiting terms for members of
Congress. Republican George Nethercutt, for example, defeated
then-House speaker Tom Foley partly by pledging to serve only three
terms. He helped end 40 years of Democratic rule in the House.

Nethercutt's decision to run for a fourth term became an issue in his
2000 campaign, but Washington state voters re-elected him.

Term limits eventually stalled in Congress. Once Republicans took
charge, "a lot of the motivation disappeared" to stick to them, says
John Pitney, a former House Republican aide who teaches political
science at Claremont McKenna College near Los Angeles.

Term limits remain a part of politics. Legislators in 15 states and
governors in 36 states are limited in how long they can serve,
according to Richard Niemi, a University of Rochester political
scientist who studies the issue.

Paul Jacob of the advocacy group U.S. Term Limits says polls show
support runs deep among voters. Recent national polling is sparse, but
an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll in July 2003 found 67% said term limits
were a good idea.

If term limits for members of Congress were allowed on the ballot,
"people would be fainting standing in such long lines, waiting to vote
yes," Jacob says.

Gary Jacobson, a University of California-San Diego political
scientist, has a different take: "Since nobody (recently) has been
punished for breaking the vow, I don't think anyone sees it as a
serious threat."

Flake and others say they had second thoughts about their pledge. Few
cite the pay - $165,200 this year - or the perks, such as
government-funded pensions and short workweeks. Most say they realized
they needed more time to land plum committee assignments and bring
federal dollars to their districts.

Rep. Timothy Johnson of Illinois "underestimated the value of
seniority," spokesman Phil Bloomer says of his boss's decision to run
for a fourth term. "As a rookie going in, (he) didn't understand what
he could accomplish for his district by being there a longer period."

Tennessee's Zach Wamp, who is running for a seventh term despite a
pledge to quit after six, briefly ran for majority whip last year
during a GOP House leadership shake-up. The pledge was "a mistake," he
told the Associated Press in 2004.

Johnson and others say they would limit their tenure if everyone did.
That's unlikely to happen anytime soon, Pitney says. He notes that
lawmakers see adhering to term-limit pledges as "a form of unilateral
disarmament" that would hurt their districts.

It could also hurt their party because control of Congress may be up
for grabs in November. A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll last weekend found 52%
of voters lean toward a Democrat for Congress, while 42% favor a
Republican.

Challengers such as Democrat Terry Stulce have made term-limit pledges
an issue. Stulce, a Vietnam veteran and social worker running against
Wamp, says the congressman's broken vow is "a reflection of his
character." Wamp could not be reached for comment.

"If you pledge you're going to do something, it's important that you go
ahead and do what you promise," Stulce says.
__________________________________________

At least seven House Republicans who had once promised to leave
Congress after this term are running for re-election in November:

Barbara Cubin, Wyoming 1994 12 years
Jeff Flake, Arizona 2000 6 years
Gil Gutknecht, Minnesota 1994 12 years
Timothy Johnson, Illinois 2000 6 years
Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey 1994 12 years
Mark Souder, Indiana 1994 12 years
Zach Wamp, Tennessee 1994 12 years

Sources: U.S. Term Limits, USA TODAY research

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tito And His Yugoslave Communists Killed 1,172,000 People
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/8d023af566611b9a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:25 pm
From: "bmarjanovich@iprimus.ca"

http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/news/croatia/527396/index.do

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.4.GIF

http://tinyurl.com/7g6un

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Busta Rhymez Facing BOYCOTT In Da `Hood?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/edaa6d8ec02f8e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:28 pm
From: Von Bailey

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:52:23 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Busta Rhymes’ Silence in Bodyguard’s Shooting May Spur CD Boycott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/bustarhymes222
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2006
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>By: Leonard Greene, Special to BlackAmericaWeb.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talk about hypocrisy. Dick Cheney can shoot someone in the face and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not talk to anyone about it but Busta must speak when there is no real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>evidence that he has any information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Huh? By his own words and that of others, Trevor Smith (oops, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>meant Busta Rhymes) was standing just a few feet away from Mr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rodriguez, possibly right next to him, when he was gunned down. So,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there is evidence that Mr Smith does indeed have plenty of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>informantion to give.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nothing you've just said says he has anything to say outside of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>acknowledging that he was there. It is entirely possible to have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there and not seen a shooter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Except that he told Rodriguez's widow otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Have some quotes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/389531p-330409c.html :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Cops now believe Rhymes' hired muscle, Israel Ramirez, was slain when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>he grabbed the shooter's gun outside a Brooklyn hip-hop video studio,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the rapper stood nearby, police sources said."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" `Busta said he was there when it happened,` said Ramirez's sister
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Claurice Lara, who took Rhymes' 20-minute condolence call Monday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>`He said he would do everything in his power to get justice done.` "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This quote appears to say that he was there (something that we already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>know, along with about 50 other people) and that he would do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything in his power to see that justice is done. He doesn't say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything about knowing who the shooter is at all contrary to your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>implications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What he told the widow was more than "I was there". He told her he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>was *with* Ramirez when he bought it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where's the quote?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You'll have to ask her.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Why? You're the one who made the claim you that SHE said Busta Rhymes
>>>>>>>>>>>>said he was there. Well, where's the quote? You either read a quote
>>>>>>>>>>>>of her making that claim or you just made it up out of thin air. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>betting on the latter as it is your norm.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It was reported in the news stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Where's the quote? Your claim that it was reported is not credible as
>>>>>>>>>>you make such claims without the ability to provide evidence to back
>>>>>>>>>>it up all the time. Where's the site liar?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Do a search, why must I always do yer homework for you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Because you are lying and telling me to go search for something that
>>>>>>>>doesn't exist is your feeble attempt to obscure the fact that you have
>>>>>>>>lied.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong. Try again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then where's the site liar? You made a claim that the widow claimed
>>>>>>that Rhymes told her more than is publicly known. Where's the quotes
>>>>>>liar? I NEVER claimed they existed so asking me to go look for
>>>>>>something that YOU and ONLY YOU claim existed is a transparent dodge.
>>>>>
>>>>>IOW, ya haven't bothered looking for the facts. From:
>>>>>http://www.bet.com/Music/DAILY+MUSIC+NEWS+Tony+Yayo.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished&Referrer=%7B03CE5360-2620-42CB-AD7E-77E4249C5FB7%7D
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, it means that I won't go searching for something just because you
>>>>say it exists.
>>>
>>>You asked a question, I gave you the cite, and now you say you don't
>>>want to "search"? There's nothing to search, now start reading.
>>>
>>I asked for a quote and you supply hearsay, thus demonstrating that
>>you don't know what a quote is.
>
>Wrong, I gave you a quote, from the article. Now quit stalling.
>
Wrong, you sited a parapharsed statement from the police who CLAIM to
be telling what someone else said. That's not a quote that's second
hand hearsay and you apparently aren't bright enough to know the
difference.

>>>>>"Israel Ramirez's widow, Amelin Fernandez told Police that Busta
>>>>>Rhymes phoned her to express his condolences, and during the call, he
>>>>>told her that he was standing besides Ramirez when he was killed.
>>>>>Now, police are also seeking to question Busta, who has yet to release
>>>>>a statement about the shooting and originally told police immediately
>>>>>after the shooting he was inside the studio when the gunfire erupted
>>>>>outside. Police believe Busta can help them get to the bottom of what
>>>>>occurred."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's not a quote, that's the police saying that someone else said
>>>>something. It's called hearsay. So you are reduced again to what the
>>>>police say was said. And of course, you being the sycophant that you
>>>>are, simply swallow it whole.
>>>
>>>And you have evidence that Mrs Ramirez subsequently denied this
>>>account?
>>>
>>Do you have evidence that she is even aware that they account has been
>>put forth? Do you have any evidence to demonstrate that anyone even
>>asked her if that statement was true?
>
>So you know I'm right but can't bring yourself to fess up, so you toss
>out red herrings instead. Same old tactics.
>
Who said I think you're right and where in my words is it even
implied? Not that you would need that to create you usual lies but it
might be interesting to see how you got that stupid assumption out of
what I wrote.

>>>>>>>>>>>More importantly, the NYPD
>>>>>>>>>>>believes this to be the case, based on what they have put together so
>>>>>>>>>>>far, and this is why they are anxious to interview Trevor Smith. He
>>>>>>>>>>>should be man enough to show up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Or the NYPD should start doing their job and looking down other clues
>>>>>>>>>>to find the murderer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>All remaining clues are held by folks like Rhymes, Tony Yayo, and a
>>>>>>>>>few others who so far refuse to cooperate. What are the po-lice
>>>>>>>>>supposed to do to fill in the blanks, hire a psychic?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Where's the evidence that these other people have 'clues' that might
>>>>>>>>help the police? Again you make the stupid assumption that they are
>>>>>>>>not speaking to the police because they have something to hide as
>>>>>>>>opposed to not helping the police because they have nothing to offer.
>>>>>>>>There is NOTHING wrong with the police sending any questions that they
>>>>>>>>have to Rhymes' lawyer for a written response. Why don't they simply
>>>>>>>>do that instead of spending all this time on blaming him for their
>>>>>>>>inability to do their job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The cops ARE trying to do their job, by attempting to interview those
>>>>>>>who were present at the shooting. What's wrong with that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then send his lawyer the questions they have in a letter and they will
>>>>>>probably be answered. What's wrong with that?
>>>>>
>>>>>Plenty. Geez yer ignorance knows no bounds.
>>>>>
>>>>But apparently you haven't the ability to articulate what "plenty" is.
>>>
>>>Just read the entire posting.
>>>
>>Lying again. One of your best traits.
>
>More red herrings.
>
Calling you a liar is not a red herring it is an accusation about your
charactor. You are lying and I pointed it out.

>>>>>>>>>>If they could provide proof that Rhymes could
>>>>>>>>>>provide any valuable evidence instead of the police using this as a
>>>>>>>>>>distraction from the fact that they can't do their job there is a law
>>>>>>>>>>called 'obstruction of justice' that could be used to coerce Mr.
>>>>>>>>>>Rhymes into saying something. But obviously there is nothing to this
>>>>>>>>>>as they have no compelling reason to believe Mr. Rhymes knows anymore
>>>>>>>>>>than any of the other 50 people who were there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That is why the NYPD commissioner has been threatening Rhymes with a
>>>>>>>>>subpoena, because he knows what went down that night, and who was
>>>>>>>>>involved in the "beef" that (as it often does) resulted in the guns
>>>>>>>>>being whipped out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You have proof that he knows what went down that night? No, you
>>>>>>>>don't. You simply have bought into the story the police have put
>>>>>>>>forth to excuse their inability to do their job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'll believe them before I believe cRap apologists like you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>So you don't have any evidence to back up your accusations, just your
>>>>>>bigotted notiions backed by people making excuses for their inability
>>>>>>to do their jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yer premise is incorrect, rendering the entire sentence moot.
>>>>>
>>>>So where's the evidence liar?
>>>
>>>I have posted and/or quoted from numerous news accounts. I can give
>>>no more evidence until these miscreants do the right thing and start
>>>cooperating with the police -- or until they get subpeonaed .
>>>
>>So you have no evidence, just accusations based on the police not
>>being able to do their job and blaming people they can't prove knows
>>anything about the case.
>
>And more guessing too.

No, I'm not guessing, I am stating a fact. YOU have NO EVIDENCE to
back up your words. None. You are simply making things up like you
always do. You are a liar.

>OK, wait until the shooter is apprehended (and
>sooner or later, he will be) and the wait for the evidence to be put
>on display during the trial. You will then be forced to admit that I
>was right.
>
Guessing or do you have evidence of what future events will be?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's the kind of ignorance that puts innocent people in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What ignorance?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ignorance that assumes that speaking to the police can have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>consequences to an innocent person.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not ignorance, fact. Why on earth would someone who has honestly done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*nothing wrong* have to worry about the "consequences" of telling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what he knows or saw to rightful law enforcement authorities?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tell that to the people they found in Illinois on death row and other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>parts of the country were DNA evidence is the only thing that saves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them from being executed for something that they DIDN'T do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'Cooperating' with the police put those people in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Huh? No one is saying Smith (Rhymes) or most of the others are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>suspects in any way in the shootiing. He's only wanted as a witness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Especially since a man who worked for him was gunned down only a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>feet from where Smith (Rhymes) was apparently standing. Yer mixing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>apples and oranges here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You didn't ask about Rhymes, you asked about "someone who has honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>done *nothing wrong*" and the people I referenced honestly did nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>wrong, cooperated with the police and were thrown in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Oh really? Then they couldn't have "honestly did nothing wrong" here,
>>>>>>>>>>>could they?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>That's a stupid assumption to make.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>NO, it's the only possible one to make!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If your stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You claim that people "honestly did nothing wrong, cooperated with the
>>>>>>>police and were thrown in jail" anyway. Now THAT is stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>The fact that people are put in jail and let out because they have
>>>>>>been found to have not done what they were accused demonstrates just
>>>>>>that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Examples please.
>>>>>
>>>>First I want to make sure that you are denying that people go to jail
>>>>who aren't supposed to.
>>>
>>>I'm not denying anything, only questioning your contradictory claim
>>>that someone who has "done nothing wrong" but cooperates with police
>>>during some investigation suddenly find themselves tossed in the can.
>>>
>>I don't have to provide evidence of something that you aren't
>>questioning is true.
>
>Except that you made a paradoxical claim: Someone went to jail for
>doing nothing wrong. Guess what, juries don't usually send people to
>prison for doing "nothing wrong". So where's the evidence?
>
Juries not 'usually' doing it and it not being done are two different
things. Again, are you denying that innocent people have been sent to
jail. If you aren't then there is nothing to provide evidence for as
we are in agreement.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Busta Rhymes isn't helping the cops only because he doesn't want to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>perceived as a "snitch" among those who live the gangsta thug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"lifestyle"; he's not man enough to deal with that. He's not facing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>any jail time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>...and you presume to read his mind because it favors your bigoted
>>>>>>>>>>>>interpretation of him and his actions. Another interesting ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>you claim without the least bit of evidence of having. In your silly
>>>>>>>>>>>>mind he should obvioulsy do what you say instead of his lawyer because
>>>>>>>>>>>>you obviously have his best interests in mind from a bigots POV.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>If Trevor Smith (aka Busta Rhymes) was *man enough* to do the right
>>>>>>>>>>>thing, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now, as he
>>>>>>>>>>>would have answered the detective's questions by the next day after
>>>>>>>>>>>the shooting, and moved on. And then perhaps the detectives would be
>>>>>>>>>>>closer to making an arrest for the murderer of that young man.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>...or the police could just go out and do their jobs and stop blaming
>>>>>>>>>>it on people that have nothing to do with it. Again, if they have ANY
>>>>>>>>>>evidence that Mr. Rhymes has ANY KNOWLEDGE then why don't they use it?
>>>>>>>>>>They don't. They are just willing to imply it to project blame for
>>>>>>>>>>their incompetence on someone else.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The process to get him (or anyone) to talk via the courts takes some
>>>>>>>>>time, but the groundwork is being laid. Stop kidding yerself, he WILL
>>>>>>>>>sing (no pun intended) sooner or later.
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/60501.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>More police supposition. The tape "may have been edited", but they
>>>>>>>>have no evidence to demonstrate that it "has been edited". They
>>>>>>>>"think an audio tape might be fake" but they don't have the tape so
>>>>>>>>again, supposition. They have NO EVIDENCE that Rhymes has any
>>>>>>>>involvement or knowledge of the killing. But putting his name out
>>>>>>>>there certainly distracts from the fact that they can't do their job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There's plenty of evidence that Rhymes knows what went down, he was
>>>>>>>standing right there. He doesn't deny that he was there. So there is
>>>>>>>reason to want to ask him some simple questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then do as his lawyer said and send him the questions. There is no
>>>>>>reason to create a circus and watch Rhymes walk into police
>>>>>>headquarters giving people like you grist for your racist tirades.
>>>>>
>>>>>Trevor Smith's lawyers don't tell the NYPD detectives how to do their
>>>>>jobs, it's simple as that.
>>>>
>>>>...and the NYPD detectives don't have the right to drag in anybody
>>>>they feel like without having some reasonable assumption that they are
>>>>involved (which explains why they haven't been able to do it so far).
>>>>Mr. Smith has rights regardless of your ignorance of them.
>>>
>>>And I have showed quite clearly the "reasonable assumptions" that
>>>suggest that Smith and some others know more about what went down that
>>>day than they are letting on.
>>>
>>No you haven't. Again you are lying.
>
>Go back and read what I posted.
>
Why? Going over lies don't make them the truth.

>>>>>He should get no special treatement --
>>>>>instead he should hustle his ass down to the station house ASAP, like
>>>>>a man.
>>>>
>>>>He should follow his lawyers instructions and it appears he's doing
>>>>just that. If it was illegal to do what he was doing they would
>>>>arrest him. Since they aren't then he is apparently within his
>>>>rights.
>>>
>>>It's not a matter of illegality, it's a matter of doing the right
>>>thing and helping bring a killer to justice. Even you wou would have
>>>to agree that is the right thing to do.
>>
>>Agreeing that a person should be brought to justice does not mean that
>>anyone the police want to question about it should be dragged into the
>>police department to do so. If the police need to question him there
>>are ways to do it besides him going into the police department for an
>>interrogation. And Busta Rhymes has every right to participate in any
>>way he wants unless they can demonstrate that he is obstructing their
>>ability to prosecute this case. They can't because there is no real
>>evidence that he had or saw anything relevant about the murder.
>
>Every day he refuses cooperate strenghens the NYPD's claim that he is
>obstructing their case and sooner or later, a judge will agree with
>and compel Smith to start singing, so to speak.

More predictions but the psuedo-great white man.

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The American Jewish Committe pushes Iran war
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/798b813415643838
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:27 pm
From: "rst0wxyz@yahoo.com"

bmoore@nyx.net wrote:
> rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >Personally, I believe that the establishment of Israel as a state on
> > >the land of Palestine is a historical fact which people should live
> > >with while at the same time Israel should not flaunt the gift of the
> > >world's goodwill, its existence, by exploiting the Palestinians,
> > >grabbing their land, and arbitrarily killing them day in and day out.
> >
> > What was Israel or Judea over 2000 years ago is not the same as Israel
> > of today. Israel of old were the people of the land around Judea.
> > Israel of today are the people from European countries believed in the
> > Jewish religion.
>
> The Eastern European Jews are descendants of Jews who were kicked out
> of the old Israel.

No, they are not. As Malcolm X and a lot of other people pointed out,
look at the people in the Palestine area, and look at the people in
present day Israel. They are not the same. 2000 years ago, the Judean
people were like today's Palestinians, black hair and darker skin
color. Jesus Christ could not have blonde hair as pictured in today's
version of Jesus. There is a tribe of African people in Africa claim
to be the lost tribe of jews. Their claims had been proven correct and
Israel have taken them into Israel.

>
> The creation of Israel from the land occupied by
> > present day Palestine is the root of today's world problem,
>
> In a sense, yes, but history does not occur in a vacuum. There are many
> causes: Germany's Final Solution,

This is the main cause of today's problem, to give the Jews a nation of
their own. But today's Jews are not the same as the the jews of Judea
2000 years ago. Today's Jews are all Eastern Europeans who had
acquired the belives of the old Judeans.

> the Arab's treatment of the
> Palestinians, etc.

The Palestinians are Arabs. Their language is the Arabic language.

> This is a complicated topic,

The complication is caused by the creation of Israel after WWII.
Because of Christianity, the land around Palestine had been fought over
and over since the crusaders.

>not one which can be
> summed up very well with sound bites.
>
> > and it
> > continue to be future problems with Iran's plan for unclear power. Its
> > a struggle between the haves and have nots.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pimping Da Oscarz
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f989acbec3d530be
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:31 pm
From: Von Bailey

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:56:56 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:35:38 -0700, Von Bailey
><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:14:48 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:41:10 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, looks like the Oscar producers are going down to the `hood in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>miguided effort to pump up its ratings. Has ABC forgotten the Janet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jackson debacle so soon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's where the white guy illegally tore off her clothes on national
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>televeision and got away with it. What about it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Geez, ya *really* are naive if ya don't think that stunt was scripted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in advance. Like pro wrestling. Nothing "illegal" about it (only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unethical and immoral), so there was nothing for the "white guy" to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"get away with".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You have some evidence besides your bigotted assumpitons that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'scripted'?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Because these enterntainers are too disciplined after years of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>training to do something spontaneous on national TV, especially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something risque. Does the term "rehersal" mean anything to ya?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>None of which is evidence, just more of your stupid assumptions being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>paraded as facts by you, the factually handicapped.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think yer talking to the mirror now, as I have already given you the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>most important *fact* you need to understand when dealing with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>entertainers who make those fabulous buck$ -- they don't jeopardize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>their acts by doing something that hadn't been planned and rehearsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That isn't a fact, that's your opinion that you have decided referrs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to an entire group of people. The usual habit of bigots, generalizing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to support their stupid assumptions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You deny that entertainers reherse ahead of time what they are going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to do when the cameras are rolling?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not relevant to whether something unrehersed could occur during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>act, which is what everyone involved said. So whatever point you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>attempting to make simply state it and back it up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Actually they claimed it was a "wardrobe malfunction", whatever THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is supposed to mean. Which is WHY entertainers always rehearse ahead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of time, in an attempt to minimize the unexpected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Which makes the stupid assumption that things cannot happen that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't rehearse for. That would be WRONG, but you have no problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>making such stupid assumptions when black people are involved all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time so why stop now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, of course the unexpected can happen. Which is precisely WHY good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>entertainers rehearse their acts frequently. Like hand movements,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for example, like reaching out and grabbing one's singing partner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So the person who's job it was to grab the singing partner screwed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>his part. She didn't have control over what his hands did HE did. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>if anyone did something purposely wrong in the live performance it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HIM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Except that at rehersal time, she could have said "no".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Which is only relevent if you have evidence that it was rehersed. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>don't. Just more stuff you 'believe' without a shred of evidence to
>>>>>>>>>>>>back it up, as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You really persist in wallowing in ignorance. It's sad, but not
>>>>>>>>>>>really surprising.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So you don't have evidence to back up your claims. I didn't think so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Wrong, the evidence is all over this thread. Open your eyes, and your
>>>>>>>>>mind, read carefully all that I have said, and start thinking this
>>>>>>>>>through.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You lying about evidence doesn't make it so. You haven't presented
>>>>>>>>any evidence at all, just a bunch of assumptions based on your
>>>>>>>>bigotted notions about a black woman.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What "bigotted assumptions" did I make here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>That she was responsible for the event and the white guy who actually
>>>>>>tore off her clothing isn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>In what way did I inject race into this? Specifics please.
>>>>>
>>>>I didn't say you did. Another one of your pitiful red herrings. But
>>>>your inability to give the white guy responsibility for what his hands
>>>>did (somehow Ms. Jackson controlled his hands in a way you can't
>>>>explain) shows a bias.
>>>
>>>Because in the end Jackson had veto power and she evidently failed to
>>>use it.
>>>
>>You still haven't explained how this 'veto power' was to control the
>>white man's hands who actually tore off the clothing. Was she
>>controling his mind? HE not she pulled the clothing off. HOW was she
>>to stop him from doing it?
>
>Wrong, I have explained all this several times already. If you
>haven't grasped this by now, I suggest you enroll in a reading
>comprehension class at your local adult school. Pronto.
>
Saying that things are rehersed is not evidence that Janet Jackson had
control over what Justin Timberlake did on that stage.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not when on national TV, in this case, the Super Bowl half time show,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>watched by possibly hundreds of millions world-wide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And you have still not presented a shred of evidence that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scripted. None. You assume and rant as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now if I told ya there were 24 hours to a day, you would probably want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>proof, even though you know it to be true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your irrelevant comparison has not changed the fact that you have not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>presented a shred of evidence that it was scripted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can ya prove otherwise?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't have to. YOU are the one claiming specifics of which YOU have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no evidence to back up. You are simply providing one of your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pitifully sorry reflexive responses again when you have NOTHING to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>back up what you say, "CAN YOU PROVE OTHERWISE" as if not being able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to demonstrate that your assumptions are wrong prove them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong I've provided all the evidence you need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liar. And what's so amazing is that all anyone has to do is read the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thread and they will see that you haven't done anything except put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>forth that you BELIEVE she purposely had HIM pull off a part of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>garment. NO EVIDENCE just what you believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, I explained why all but the stupidest of performers would never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>do anything without working it out in advance during rehersals, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is what they are for. Well, OK, maybe these 2 clowns aren't the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>sharpest knives in the drawer, so maybe there is a long shot you might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>be right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You *claiming* you've 'explained' something is not "evidence". So we
>>>>>>>>>>>>are back to your baseless assumptions again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, the evidence is in the explanation. Open your eyes, and your
>>>>>>>>>>>mind too, and go back and read again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>An 'explanation' is not 'evidence'. Again you don't know the meaning
>>>>>>>>>>of the words you use thus confusing conversation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In this case it is, since no performer worth more than a dime would
>>>>>>>>>ever go on national TV with rehearsing it beforehand. Ever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Which doesn't in the least make Ms. Jackson culpable for the actions
>>>>>>>>of another person tearing off her clothes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It does if she agreed to it ahead of time. And he *didn't* tear off
>>>>>>>here clothes, only loosened one strap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>You have evidence that she agreed to it ahead of time? No, you don't,
>>>>>>it's just another on of the many assumptions you base most of what you
>>>>>>say on.
>>>>>
>>>>>I gave you plenty of evidence on this already.
>>>>
>>>>That's a lie. You have given your *opinion* about Ms. Jackson and the
>>>>entertainment industry. You have given NO evidence related to the
>>>>event at all.
>>>
>>>Wrong twice. There is plenty of well-documented evidence about the
>>>kind of family that Ms Jackson comes from. And anyone who has even
>>>done one show for TV will tell you about rehersals.
>>>
>>Neither of which is evidence towards the event in discussion, just
>>stuff you wish to use to speculate. Speculation is not evidence.
>
>No, but facts *are*, and I just presented 2 of them.
>
That's a lie. Opinions are not facts and all you've offered are
opinions based on your biased POV.

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Time For Blacks To Declare A Culture War?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/573fb76db7781873
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:33 pm
From: Von Bailey

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:52:30 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 20:54:17 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/404374p-342477c.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Specifically, we need aggressive, concerted action by members and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>institutions of the respectable black middle class to do open combat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>against the rise of an ancient enemy: a bold, seductive street
>>>>>>>>>>>>>culture that exalts lawlessness, addiction and anti-family behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>like pimping, sexual promiscuity, ignorance and personal selfishness."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now before anyone screams "racism" or "bigot", click on the link below
>>>>>>>>>>>>>and note that the author is as much as an African-American (born in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harlem, now lives in Brooklyn) as any other black man.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You say that as if a black person can't work towards the goal of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>who work against black people. That's why your stupid rationales
>>>>>>>>>>>>never make sense, they are based on ridiculous assumptions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>No, the ridiculous assumption here is yours, namely that blacks like
>>>>>>>>>>>Mr Louis are working "against", not for, black people. So, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>case of someone like him, who was born in Harlem and lives among his
>>>>>>>>>>>fellow blacks in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn (a mostly black
>>>>>>>>>>>section of Brooklyn, which itself is mostly black), why on earth would
>>>>>>>>>>>he not want to advance the cause of black people, since he is one of
>>>>>>>>>>>them and lives among them?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>To make money.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You really ARE simple-minded..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The assumption that money isn't a powerful motivator is simple-minded.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Please explain what that has to with a black columnist who obviously
>>>>>>>works and lives among his fellow blacks, wanting to lift up those
>>>>>>>around him. How is condemning "pimping, sexual promiscuity, ignorance
>>>>>>>and personal selfishness" in the `hood working "against" black people?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, he's condemning a certain kind of music as if it's a source of a
>>>>>>problem instead of one of the symptoms. Pimping, sexual prmiscuity
>>>>>>and ignorance was around long before rap and by more than just black
>>>>>>people. It isn't a 'black problem' it is a subject and POV that will
>>>>>>get him published in newspapers and magazines. Whether or not he
>>>>>>honestly shares the feelings he rants is irrelevant as they are
>>>>>>superficial attacks that will result in nothing except his getting
>>>>>>into print, noticed and paid.
>>>>>
>>>>>IOW, yer head is stuck deep in the sand, and you like it just fine
>>>>>right there. As for the rest of your copouts, "pimping, sexual
>>>>>prmiscuity and ignorance" are NOT big problems today in most
>>>>>communities, outside of the `hood. You're simply too out of touch.
>>>>>
>>>>So are you claiming only people "in the hood" (where ever that may be)
>>>>are pimping women, act sexually promiscuous or ignorant or are you
>>>>saying that it's only a problem with people "in the hood" and when
>>>>other people act in the same way it's not a problem?
>>>
>>>Yes, yes, yes and no.
>>
>>Well, again you happen to be wrong.
>
>No, looks like you are just guessing as usual. Otherwise, you would
>have had some proof that I'm wrong, but it looks like you didn't
>provide any. What a surprise.

Nothing to prove you're the one making the claims, I'm just saying
you're wrong. Now YOU PROVE that you're right.

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Church trying to prevent child abuse prosecutions
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/59051f353a5f097f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:33 pm
From: beachshark@gmail.com

The Catholic Church is having early success in fighting proposals in
state legislatures that would permit people claiming they were sexually
abused as children to sue priests and other church officials long after
the alleged offenses occurred.

Measures proposed in nine states would suspend statutes of limitation
and allow lawsuits to be filed regardless of when an alleged offense
took place. The proposals are patterned on a 2003 California law that
allowed a one-year window for suits to be filed there without regard to
the statute of limitations.

Since March, aggressive lobbying by the church helped to bottle up such
a measure in a state Senate committee in Maryland, and to alter the
language of an Ohio bill to rule out new lawsuits. A bill in Colorado's
Legislature is being debated, but it's a long shot because of intense
Catholic opposition, the bill's supporters say. The church is gearing
up to fight proposals in Delaware, Hawaii, Michigan, New York,
Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

David Clohessy, director of Survivors Network of those Abused by
Priests (SNAP), says new laws are needed because victims of childhood
sex abuse often don't report it until long after the deadline for
filing a lawsuit. They suppress memories of the abuse until they are
well into adulthood, he says.

Church lobbyists are using a variety of arguments to block the bills.
In Maryland, lawyers on key state committees were told that changing
long-standing legal rules would be an unfair and dangerous precedent,
says Richard Dowling, director of the Maryland Catholic Conference.

About 4,400 priests and deacons abused more than 11,000 minors from
1950 to 2002, according to a study by researchers from John Jay College
of Criminal Justice in New York City. The Catholic Church wants to
escape accountability for these crimes.

Allegations of abuse reported 777 cases just last year, according to an
audit done for the bishops' conference.

Since the abuse scandals came to light in 2002, six states have
extended legal deadlines for filing abuse suits. In Maryland, alleged
victims can sue until they turn 25. Victims' advocates say more states
should follow California's example and eliminate all time limitations,
at least for a one-year period.

"Predators are cunning and shrewd and manipulative, so (victims) tend
at first to rationalize abuse and explain it away," Clohessy says.
"Sometimes it takes decades of failure, your fourth marriage or your
fifth divorce, before you begin to work inward and discover the cause."
He says 98% of SNAP's 6,200 members "didn't realize they had been
abused" until it was too late to file suits.

When California suspended limits in 2003, about 800 abuse lawsuits were
filed, says William Bassett, a law professor at the University of San
Francisco.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Scholar Fearz Future of Young Black Men
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2e5f10360af7e066
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:36 pm
From: Von Bailey

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:41:40 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:57:41 -0700, Von Bailey
><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 23:05:52 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>
>>>gOn Sat, 08 Apr 2006 15:44:57 -0700, Von Bailey
>>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 11:20:38 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/FEATURES/603260683
>>>>>
>>>>>Scholar fears future of young black men
>>>>>
>>>>>"Every time I see these young black men walking up and down the
>>>>>streets with these funny clothes on, I could just scream. I feel so
>>>>>bad. So bad," said Franklin in a telephone interview from his office
>>>>>in North Carolina.
>>>>>
>>>>>Imagine his reaction if he saw the lyrcis to a typical cRap song.
>>>>
>>>>Typical of you to take the man's words out of context for your pitiful
>>>>war on Rap. He says what he blames for the condition that he
>>>>observes.
>>>>
>>>>"...he faults millionaire sports and entertainment figures for not
>>>>giving a hand to those struggling to make it -- and the white majority
>>>>as well. The economy plays a huge role -- a minimum wage that supports
>>>>no one -- as does a political system that continues to ignore the
>>>>realities of black social and economic status. And the United States
>>>>has a long history of exploiting not only its natural resources but
>>>>its human resources as well."
>>>>_________________________________
>>>
>>>Actually, it is YOU who is quoting him out of context (your typical MO
>>>here). He does NOT suggest anywhere that young black men are wearing
>>>"funny clothes" due to economics or millionaires or white folks at
>>>all. He knows, what everyone except you seems to know, is they dress
>>>themselves in the morning, no one else is responsible. He makes it
>>>quite clear that the mere sight of that sickens him.
>>>
>>Your pitiful diatribe assumes that his issue was that they were
>>wearing funny clothes instead of having no viable prospects in this
>>country.
>
>No, it doesn't "assume" anything at all, since we have a *direct
>quote* from Mr Franklin. We KNOW how he feels about the "funny"
>fashions in the hood -- well, most of us except you do know.
>
Really? What part of his statement referenced rap? That's where you
brought it with your comment on what HE would think about rap music if
he saw the "lyrcis". My quote about his feelings about the condition
come from the article YOU posted. Where are his feeling about rap in
the article? Or are you so in touch with black men that you know what
he would feel?

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shocking Pictures OF UGLY KHOOOOOOORDEEEEESH TERRORISTS from Turkey!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/628595681c318dac
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:36 pm
From: "gogu"

Ali Asker wrote:
> "Ilgaz Ocal" <ilgaz_ocal@yahoo.com > wrote in message
> news:4abst8Fs8juoU1@individual.net...
> > On 2006-04-14 22:54:59 +0300, "Ali Asker" <pasa_asker@kurdistan.kd> said:
> >
> >> The village guard : Turkish army used chemical weapon
> >
> > Chemical weapons are weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and they are not
> > suitable to kill 10 people on open fields.
> >
> > Ask any army officer, whatever side you pick.
>
> I KNEW YOU WERE FUCKEN TURKISH SCUMBEG WHO WORKS FOR THE TURKISH NATIONALIST
> INTELIGANCE AND NOW YOU EVEN ADMITED FUCKEN EXPERT ON CHEMICAL ATTACKS TO
> THE CIVILANS AND THE KURDISH FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!!
>
> LOOK AT THIS PICTURES AGAIN YOU DIRTY MONGOLOID ASIAN MONKEY CALLED *tURk*
>
> http://www.turkiyegercegi.net/operasyonda_kimyasal_silah_resimleri.html
>

IT'S NOT HIS FAULT THAT THOSE KHOOOOORDEEEESH PKK TERRORIST BASTARDS
ARE SO UGLY IS IT ?

CHECK OUT THE SOUNDS OF S.C.G

http://media.putfile.com/moo33

http://media.putfile.com/nazi-gogu96

http://media.putfile.com/chloe-moose29

http://media.putfile.com/greek-american16

http://media.putfile.com/romanian-death-threats62

http://media.putfile.com/gayson91

http://media.putfile.com/panty49

http://media.putfile.com/pants-awry

http://media.putfile.com/roman-zee-chermann

http://media.putfile.com/roman-zee-chermann96

http://media.putfile.com/dreggs-ull

http://media.putfile.com/dorian-west55

http://media.putfile.com/PHistor57

koku is such an important little usenet spod that when he calls foreign
police forces in his pidjin GRroooomanian Eeeeengleeeesh and says
"JUMP"
they always say, jawohl meine kleine schpamming yeeftos, how high ?

*LMFAOAY*

http://snipurl.com/mwah

http://snipurl.com/dilp

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels, pidjins, gypsies and more:
http://pig.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://www.seanie.eu

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Croatia's Zdenko Kozul Wins European Chess Championship
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/4b9fa4be9309a931
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:53 pm
From: "bmarjanovich@iprimus.ca"

http://www.eurochess.org/300000.html
http://www.crochess.com/album/bled/kozul.htm
http://www.fide.com/ratings/card.phtml?event=14502879
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=13992
http://www.wtharvey.com/kozu.html
http://tinyurl.com/pv7m7

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generals report Rumsfeld incompetence; Bush responds, "Attaboy, Rummy!"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f1707ebfbe4b5f38
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 3:54 pm
From: "Joe S."

<beachshark1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1145126914.540372.25420@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> So, let me get this straight... Generals of America's fighting forces
> who have had to work under the command of Donald Rumsfeld come out
> individually with the revelation that much of the problems in the
> invasion of Iraq are directly due to Rumsfeld's refusal to truly listen
> to the Generals or other military officers, micro-managing with
> ill-planned orders instead... and, upon hearing this, George Bush
> immediately releases his response, which amounts to an "Attaboy Rummy!
> Way to go!" ??????
>

Did Bush really say "You're doing a heckuva job, Rummy." ??

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:00 pm
From: "Möbius Pretzel"

beachshark1@yahoo.com wrote:

> So, let me get this straight... Generals of America's fighting forces
> who have had to work under the command of Donald Rumsfeld come out
> individually with the revelation that much of the problems in the
> invasion of Iraq are directly due to Rumsfeld's refusal to truly listen
> to the Generals or other military officers, micro-managing with
> ill-planned orders instead... and, upon hearing this, George Bush
> immediately releases his response, which amounts to an "Attaboy Rummy!
> Way to go!" ??????

If you hate America you LOOOOOOOOOOVE failure Bush and the losers
he stands by.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:11 pm
From: Captain Compassion

On 15 Apr 2006 11:48:34 -0700, beachshark1@yahoo.com wrote:

>So, let me get this straight... Generals of America's fighting forces
>who have had to work under the command of Donald Rumsfeld come out
>individually with the revelation that much of the problems in the
>invasion of Iraq are directly due to Rumsfeld's refusal to truly listen
>to the Generals or other military officers, micro-managing with
>ill-planned orders instead... and, upon hearing this, George Bush
>immediately releases his response, which amounts to an "Attaboy Rummy!
>Way to go!" ??????

Even Lincoln had his General detractors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McClellan#Resumption_of_civilian_career

--
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilizaton is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.

"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Burma Digest (16.4.2006): A New Battle Has Begun
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/827ed3923f14ab23
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:07 pm
From: "Tayza Thuria"

BURMA DIGEST

Campaign 2006: Year of Global Campaigning and Advocacy for Democracy in
Burma

_______________________________________________________________________
16.4.2006

A NEW BATTLE HAS BEGUN

Contents [PLease read on http://www.tayzathuria.org.uk ]

English Language Section

I. "Onto a New Stage of Revolution"_ Editorial: Dr. Tayza

II. " Tell Them They Are Finished"_ Advice of Ko Moe Thee Zun

III. " Interview with A.R.N.O"_ Interview by Raluca Enescu

IV. " The Last Chance"_ Feature Article: Khin Ma Ma Myo

V. " Burma blocking the internet" _ Special Analysis : Tai Sam Yone

VI. "Refugee Exodus from Burma " _ Photo Essay: courtesy of Dr. Habib
Siddiqui

VII. " Just Imagine This, part 2"_ Research Paper: Dr. Habib Siddiqui

VIII. " The Russian Samaritan, a Non-Christian Parable for Easter
2006"_ S atire: Baydin Sayar

IX. "Hell Hounds at large: Radovan Karadžic and Than Shwe "_ Satire:
Mahar Bandula

X. " Propaganda Minister admits SPDC are terrorists"_ Special
Commentary: Sai Merng Mai

XI. " Iraq Russia Burma ....." _ Opinions : Min Khin Kyaw

XII. " Letter 10: MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY!" _ Compassionate Letters: Bo
Aung Din

XIII. " Concerning Genocide in Burma" _ Quotes: courtesy of Neill
Staurland

XIV. "Protests Against Daewoo Gas Pipe-line " _ Special Report:
Demonstrations in UK & France

Burmese Language Section
( Burmese Fonts http://www.tayzathuria.org.uk/fonts.htm )

XV. "Starting from Burmese New Yeart " _ Editorial: Zay Ya

XVI. " People Power in the Philippines"_ Historical Review: Khin Ma Ma
Myo

XVII. "The Role of Power in Non-violent Struggles, part 2"_ Translated
Article : Lwin Aung Soe

XVIII. "To Revolt Before Too Late"_ Poem: Hein Naing

XIX. "Oppressed People in Liberated Area"_ Opinion: Ka Baw Thar

INFORMATION
Burma Digest printable version http://www.tayzathuria.org.uk/BD.pdf .
Burma Digest Blog http://burmadigest.wordpress.com .

To send your articles, BDeditors@tayzathuria.org.uk . For general
enquiries, postmaster@tayzathuria.org.uk .

Burma Digest Team: _

Patron = Prof. Kanbawza Win
Board of Advisors = Ko Htun Aung Gyaw, Sai Wansai, Dr. David Law, Dr.
Win Naing, Ko Ko Lay
Editors = Tayza Thuria, Zay Ya and May(Blog Editor)
International Coordinator = Raluca Enescu
Burma Digest is affiliated with Democracy for Burma Forum (UK) and
Democracy for Burma Forum (Australia)

--

JOIN! http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/democracyforburma/ & get
access to great archives of photos, articles & cool links

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Empire, Inequality, and the Arrogance Of Power
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/16d834397b474b1f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:10 pm
From: "Stan de SD"

"al953" <al953@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:MS80g.15656$iU2.11370@fed1read01...
> Empire, Inequality, and the Arrogance Of Power
> by Paul Street
> www.dissidentvoice.org
> April 14, 2006
>
> One of the great privileges of power is the right to attack others for
> doing -- or allegedly doing (see below) -- exactly what you do without
> anybody who matters calling you on your hypocrisy.
>
> Think of the affluent white Americans who criticize the alleged personal
> irresponsibility, cultural inadequacy, and welfare dependency of the inner
> city poor. Never mind that these wealthy Americans engage in an ongoing
orgy
> of conspicuous and ecologically toxic consumption. Forget that they
> typically invest in and/or receive generous salaries from corporations
that
> receive massive public subsidies while cheating customers, subverting
> regulations, deepening inequality, slashing wages and benefits, abandoning
> communities, discriminating against women and minorities, and/or otherwise
> contributing to human misery at home and abroad. Such blatant hypocrisy
> generally proceeds without public notice or exposure.

Once again, the left blames those who produce something of value, for the
plight of those who don't...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generals Break With Tradition A Cry For Help
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c3da8a817ed7dd1a
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:08 pm
From: beachshark@gmail.com

WASHINGTON, April 15 - This week, the chorus of retired generals
demanding Donald H. Rumsfeld's resignation grew larger and louder.

Critics of Mr. Rumsfeld, who agree with the former generals who have
derided him as wrongheaded and arrogant, contend that the 73-year-old
defense secretary has promoted top leaders based largely on their
fealty to him, his management of the war in Iraq and his ambitious plan
to remake the military.

The rare public statements by former senior military leaders signal a
patriotic plea to the America people for their assistance in removing
what they see as a threat to the country, incompetence by their
civilian leaders. Some of Mr. Rumsfeld's critics also fault others in
the military for not being more forceful in questioning the guidelines
put forward by Pentagon civilians that have kept American forces
relatively lean in Iraq and have led to the quick disbanding of the
Iraqi army.

"It's certainly very unusual to have even retired military officers
being this public about their opposition," said Christopher F. Gelpi, a
Duke University political scientist and co-author - with Peter D.
Feaver, now a White House adviser - of a 2004 book on civil-military
relations. "But I don't think it's improper at all. They've been
careful not to violate the core tenet of civilian control - none of
them has said these things publicly while on active duty."

Richard H. Kohn, a historian at the University of North Carolina who
has studied the civilian control issue for 40 years, said he largely
agrees with the generals' view of the war and is no admirer of Mr.
Rumsfeld. He is sympathetic to what he calls "a dam of anger and
frustration bursting on the part of these senior retired people" and
says he does not question their right to speak out.

Apparently what is alarming senior military leaders is the incapability
of American civilians to hold their leadership accountable for it's
ineffectual policies and wrong decisions. "It's not the military that
holds the civilian leadership accountable," he said. "It's Congress,
the voters, investigative journalists. Things have been turned upside
down here."

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:17 pm
From: TELLUSTHETRUTHCINDY@yahoo.com

Israel: The Dead Roach in America's Salad
by Charley Reese

April 15, 2006

The Israeli lobby and the neoconservatives are beating the drums for
war with Iran.

Find this article at:

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=8856

------------------------------------

Iran Showdown Tests Power of "Israel Lobby"

http://www.alternet.org/story/34935/

-----------------------------------------------------------

Colin Powell feared the power of the pro-Israel lobby:

http://www.selvesandothers.org/view3631.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

Pro-Israel lobby paper given to Chris Matthews of 'Hardball' at USC :

Here is the URL for the Daily Trojan article which mentions the
Mearsheimer/Walt study (
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=49800 ) on the
pro-Israel lobby which was given to Mr. Matthews at USC (it is
mentioned in the last few sentences of the article):

http://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2006/04/12/News/Msnbcs.hardball.Films.Live.Segment.On.Campus-1845603.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dailytrojan.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com

Here is a tiny URL for the above URL:

http://tinyurl.com/zx96r

Thinking about Neoconservatism:

http://www.vdare.com/misc/macdonald_neoconservatism.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Physicist says Thermite heat substance felled WTC
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/abf837d229b6d170
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:16 pm
From: "Stan de SD"

"Hotblack Desiato" <judge_cool@gatec.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iuKdnQMvgobrV93ZnZ2dnUVZ8qSdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
> news:a577e$444006de$45035f0d$30554@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
> > "David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
> > news:68R%f.69$_s5.11@trnddc04...
> >>
> >> "Frank F. Matthews" <frankfmatthews@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:baP%f.25075$yy4.17552@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >>
> >> > If it is new then you have not looked at his background.
> >>
> >> I dunno, Frank... Some of these requests make sense to me,
> >> so I support his efforts to awaken the public, whatever the result.
> >>
> >> ____________________________________
> >>
> >> Scholars Call for Release of 9/11 Information
> >> http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
> >
> > Since you're so worked up about this, here are some questions for you:
> >
> > (1) If you think that the Bush administration is somhow complicit in
this,
> > what would have been their objective?
>
> Conflict and ultimately securing US geo-political dominance in all areas.
> (See PNAC agenda 'Rebuilding America's Defences')
www.newamericancentury.org
>
>
> > (2) If you think this was an inside job, who did Osama and al-Qaeda
claim
> > responsibility for it?
>
> Osama initially out-right rejected any responsibility for 9-11.

Sources and cites?

> Why would he
> do that and then admit it? Regardless, one has to be a lie or a
manipulation
> by the media, but which one?? .. place yer bets ladies n gentlemen
>
> > (3) If they were responsible for orchestrating airplanes into the WTC,
why
> > would they need to blow them up as well?

So are you saying that merely flying the buildings into the WTC wasn't
sufficient, but they had to blow them up too?

> Lasting emotional trauma for the purposes of manipulating the masses in to
> accepting a long-term and costly middle east conflict which otherwise,
would
> never have floated. A conflict which was planned before 9-11, again see
PNAC
>
> > (4) Conversely, if they planned on blowing them up anyway, why bother
with
> > the airplane?
>
> See above
>
> >
> > Try to answer those before going off on long tangents about things that
> > are
> > nothing but wild speculation, OK?
>
> Your questions are not difficult to answer.

If you're a kook who doesn't need to substantiate his position with facts,
right?

==============================================================================

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