soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.usa@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Is the "Gay Life" Really Gay? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6b88140d63876848
* Fulfilling the "American Dream." - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a48ac432669ca64
* YES! WIPE IT OFF! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/23bfb91fb8bac2e1
* Proof of Lysaght's indiscretions - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c92fa8aaae7bedf9
* India Most Likely Behind Pakistan Prayer Service Bombing ?? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b4329c932ea6412e
* Integration of Immigrants and Minorities - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5be3152b906bc6c0
* If you can't beat 'em, join 'em - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d9b265a60d0186ba
* Saddam's WMDs - the fog slowly clears - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7377fac381d05f51
* BreakPoint Commentaries: "Does Prayer Work?" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f97658bef180a980
* Israel, Arabs and nukes - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cfd2a6501872070
* Shias add fuel to hatred with 'gangsta-rap' incitement - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cfdd29c7dd22d1bb
* Busta Rhymez Facing BOYCOTT In Da `Hood? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/edaa6d8ec02f8e
* Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp") - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
* Time For Blacks To Declare A Culture War? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/573fb76db7781873
* Colin Powell now says "I never believed" Iraq/Niger nuke connection - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/429941b2caf097f6
* Nazis planned to kill Palestine Jews - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/99ca554e0b35f1ff
* Holocaust Calendar: April 13 What really happened to the 6 million. - 2
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c31944efc7547831
* HOW THE CONCEPT OF 'EVIL BRAHMIN' CAME ABOUT - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/aaaafd4f383a4df7
* Independence of Chechnya in the Long Run - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fecb303268ff2ba9
* THE PROBLEMS WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE US - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b462f77d61ef1898
* CONGRATULATIONS, IRAN !!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ad7ddbf0b7bcdd1a
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is the "Gay Life" Really Gay?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6b88140d63876848
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 1:01 am
From: "host"
nooooo no no no no
I'm gonna puke...
BLechhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you think I was kidding?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fulfilling the "American Dream."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a48ac432669ca64
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:10 pm
From: "Max Muir"
Ashok wrote:
> Just exactly what is the "American Dream" to fulfill? A Mexican's Big
> "American Dream" is to come to the U.S. to wash dishes, while Indians
> have broader goals - to own 7/11's/BP's or motels and become
> superrich superfast. Even Indian doctors, lawyers and engineers own a
> piece of commercial real estate. Indians come to the U.S. to make a
> fortune while majority of the working class of White and Black
> Americans have limited dreams and limited thinking caps of sticking to
> their "9 to 5" jobs, eat out at McDonald's(replace with your favorite
> fast food restaurant) on a daily basis, and become obese by their 10th
> birthday. Americans love this vicious cycle
>
> Ashok Patel
Yeah, it's another Hindu Nationalist racist throwing stones at the
country that gave him a Visa to work there.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/986628.stm
"Obesity is rarely a problem people usually associate with India. But
one study has found that nearly half of all high-income women in Delhi
are overweight."
==
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1156218.stm
"The world's largest diabetes epidemic is threatening India, which is
ill-equipped to cope, say experts."
==
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4530914.stm
"crew members can't fasten their seat belts"
==
==============================================================================
TOPIC: YES! WIPE IT OFF!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/23bfb91fb8bac2e1
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 8:13 pm
From: "Hello, Bill!"
The Rev'd wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:20:09 +0100, Leon <dev@null.nowhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 05:01:06 +0000, "flaviaR@verizon.net"
>><flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Norman has it in his head that the US is invincible ad infinitum. When a
>>>>country starts to believe that BS, that is when the slide begins Susan.
>>>
>>>Except that the US *is* invincible. No "slide" is imminent.
>>
>>Are you really that foolish? What school did you go to back in the
>>ould sod?
>
>
> Suzy went to jew conversion school. She's a thick Irish cunt.
>
>
>>>Except iin what passes for the minds of bgiots.
>>
>>And what are bgiots?
>
>
> A variation of bgots.
>
Is that so.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Proof of Lysaght's indiscretions
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c92fa8aaae7bedf9
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:18 pm
From: SNOMAN120264@HOTMAIL.COM
Lysaght is a confirmed KOOK!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: India Most Likely Behind Pakistan Prayer Service Bombing ??
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b4329c932ea6412e
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:35 pm
From: "Koundinya"
What caused this utterly unconnected outburst Mr. Harmony.?What has
Facts Unlimited's idiocy got to with Jesus on the Cross
2000 years ago. In spite of being a Hindu, I find bigotry of all
persuasions be they fundamental Hindu, Christian and Muslim, anathema.
I
guess knowing Harmony predelictions, I should have seen it coming.
Gopal
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Integration of Immigrants and Minorities
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/5be3152b906bc6c0
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:35 pm
From: "Ali Asker"
Syupid ars-hole
First ask yourself why have you moved the Germany?
Is that you wanted to learn German?
Is that you wanted to forget about your culture?
Is that because you wanted to forget about your language?
Is that because you were desperate to feed yourself?
Is that because you like to cold and rainy wether in Germany?
Why did you move to Germany?
Giv me a simple and reasonable answer and please do not blame the Kurds
because Kurdish people provide half of the Turks live in Europe!
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 4:23 am
From: "BabaTurk" <520001085531-0001@t-online.de>
"Ali Asker" wrote
> Syupid ars-hole
See my prev. message about your such hate speeches.
> First ask yourself why have you moved the Germany?
>
> Is that you wanted to learn German?
It is necessary to communicate with other people.
(what's the prize for a correct answer of this question? :-)
> Is that you wanted to forget about your culture?
No. You can keep your own and also learn other cultures, even
live successfully within a totally different culture. But to be
fully accepted and to be successful you need to know that
other culture as well.
> Is that because you wanted to forget about your language?
No. The human being is able to learn and talk more than just one language.
> Is that because you were desperate to feed yourself?
To find a job due to poor economic conditions at home.
> Is that because you like to cold and rainy wether in Germany?
:-) Of course not, but we all must pay a price for our desires, dont we?
> Why did you move to Germany?
To learn new things, to make money, to have a better life.
> Giv me a simple and reasonable answer and please do not blame the Kurds
> because Kurdish people provide half of the Turks live in Europe!
:-) Really? I doubt it. No I don't blame them.
The answers I gave above.
In short: Make money, not war. With the money you can try to realize
everything you desire. If you analyse all the professions etc. in the end
they all lead to the one final question: How much does it give?
Money rules the world. You can't deny it.
And now it's your turn.
What was your motivation to go to another country?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d9b265a60d0186ba
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:39 pm
From: liberalhere@yahoo.com
Kevin wrote:
> Good point, actually. If politicians succeed in rewarding criminals
> who can break the law for five years in a row with citizenship, then
> won't Corporate America need more illegal law-breakers to maximize
> their profits again? Something to think about...
According to the news, border guards are already reporting illegal
crossings are way up ever since amnesty began being discussed.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saddam's WMDs - the fog slowly clears
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7377fac381d05f51
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 1:48 am
From: "Aussie Infidel"
"Richard Dell" <rfdell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144861065.565786.44170@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Maria wrote:
>
>
> Saddam did some barmy things. During the Gulf War, some of his fighter
> planes flew to Iran, from where he must have known he would never get
> them back. He buried some planes in sand in the desert, why? The sand
> caused massive damage. He ordered a tanker to dump all its oil in the
> Gulf, why? Did he think the sight of soggy cormorants would stop the
> coalition?
>
It was a while ago, so I may very well be wrong, but I recall those Iraqi
aircraft which flew to Iran as defections rather than Saddam sending them
there for protection. I did see photos of jets being dug out of sand and
crude attempts to keep the sand out had been made, with plastic and gaffer
tape. They must have hoped to be able to resurrect them at some stage. As
for the oil.....maybe he thought he could burn it, or that it would create a
physical barrier to disable warships by clogging their salt water cooling
systems. It would be a fairly courageous captain who would take his ship
loaded with explosives into a sea covered in oil.
Aussie Infidel
==============================================================================
TOPIC: BreakPoint Commentaries: "Does Prayer Work?"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f97658bef180a980
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 8:25 pm
From: . (T James)
BreakPoint Commentaries
http://www.breakpoint.org
Apologetics & Theology
Does Prayer Work?
By Mark Earley
4/13/2006
The headlines seemed almost triumphal in tone.
"Prayer Doesnt Aid Recovery, Study Finds." That was the
Washington Post. "Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the
Power of Prayer." That was the New York Times.
Both papers were describing a study designed to determine the
power of prayer. Not only did it show that prayer apparently
makes no difference, but some prayed-for patients in the study
actually fared worse than the unprayed-for ones.
The research, led by Jeffery Dusek of the Harvard Medical School,
involved 1,802 heart-bypass patients. One-third were told they might
be prayed for (but they werent), one-third were told they might receive
prayer (and did), and one-third were told they would definitely be
prayed for. Catholics and Protestants who agreed to pray for certain
patients were told to ask for "a successful surgery with a quick,
healthy recovery and no complications."
Patients in the two groups that did not know if anyone was praying for
them had about the same rate of complications--52 percent--regardless
of whether they were being prayed for. But 59 percent of the patients who
knew they were being prayed for suffered complications.
The researchers were quick to downplay the unexpected results.
Knowing they were being prayed for may have led to stress among
patients, they noted. And as one doctor put it, "Did the patients think,
I am so sick they had to call in the prayer team?"
Naturally, some observers were delighted at the results. They
think the study proves conclusively that prayer doesnt work,
and its time for men of science to "stop dabbling in the supernatural,"
as one academic put it.
But wait a minute. The researchers acknowledged that they could
not control for the fact that many "unauthorized" people may have
interceded for loved ones in the so-called "unprayed-for" group.
And plenty of other studies indicate that intercessory prayer does have an impact.
But perhaps the studys biggest flaw involves how the results
were interpreted. Christians know that there are three possible
answers to prayer: "Yes," "no," and "wait." The Harvard study
measured only the "yes" answers. But just because we dont get
the answer were looking for does not mean God is not
listening or answering.
We are given a glorious example of this truth by Jesus Himself.
On the night before His arrest, praying in the Garden of Gethsemane,
an agonized Jesus asked God to remove the cup that was before Him.
He prayed that He would not have to go to the Cross. And yet,
not long afterward, Jesus did die on the Cross.
To a modern researcher, this is the perfect example of a prayer that
went unanswered. But we know that God did answer this prayer. He
answered it in a way that led, over the next twenty centuries, to salvation
for millions. And on Easter Sunday, millions of Christians around the
world will thank God for answering it the way He did.
Yes, Jesus died on the Cross. But He rose again on the third day.
And thanks to that so-called "unanswered prayer," you and I can
say this Easter, "Hallelujah! Christ is risen!"
And no matter what the researchers tell us, we know we can trust
God to hear, and answer, every prayer.
--
"We conclude that the proximity of ELS's with related meanings in the Book
of Genesis is not due to chance. "
Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis. Witztum,
D., Rips, E. and Rosenberg, Y. (1994) Statistical Science 9 No. 3 429-438.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Israel, Arabs and nukes
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cfd2a6501872070
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 6:51 pm
From: "dbohara@mindspring.com"
We all know that if a nuke ever detonates on Israel that the entire
arab world will be nuked, including Mecca by the Israelis. Considering
that the the rest of the world would be better off without Islam, and
that the USA, France, Russia and China hate the islamists
too........The real source of that first nuke might be anybody who just
wants to have the Israelis do the dirty work while the arabs get blamed
for the first nuke.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 7:05 pm
From: "dbohara@mindspring.com"
We all know that if a nuke ever detonates on Israel that the entire
arab world will be nuked, including Mecca by the Israelis. Considering
that the the rest of the world would be better off without Islam, and
that the USA, France, Russia and China hate the islamists
too........The real source of that first nuke might be anybody who just
wants to have the Israelis do the dirty work while the arabs get blamed
for the first nuke.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shias add fuel to hatred with 'gangsta-rap' incitement
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cfdd29c7dd22d1bb
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 9:52 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:41:15 -0800, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 01:56:36 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:17:08 -0800, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:08:20 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:19:06 GMT, God's Creator
>>>>>>>>>>>>><Why_Are_Gods@Always.Bro.Ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Thus spake God's Creator*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gangsta-Rap music now being used to stir up the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq insurgents in their war against the invaders.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The rap songs are directed at the Sunis and the Shites
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in such a way as inflame their hatreds of each other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/05/wirq105.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many young people in America have allowed this violence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provoking art-form ("called Rap") to make murderers of them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or cause them to end up dead, or in prison. :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the fools music PLAY on... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's also a fool who blames music for the actions of human beings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>These people were killing each other prior to the introduction of rap
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to their culture. To blame rap music for people killing each other in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>war zone is ridiculous. Try asking WHY the young man has these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>feelings of a need to kill instead of chastising the vehicle he uses
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to communicate these feelings. The vehicle did not create the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>feelings any more than rap created violence in the United States.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Well then I suppose it's just a coincidence that the list of cRappers
>>>>>>>>>>>>(http://wayoflife.org/fbns/rapper-deathstyle.html) who have been cut
>>>>>>>>>>>>down in one violent way or another is long, albeit not terribly
>>>>>>>>>>>>distinguished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I suppose it's also a coincidence that one *never* has to wait too
>>>>>>>>>>>>long for the next news story about cRap-related violence, like the
>>>>>>>>>>>>shooting of Busta Rhyme's bodyguard a few weeks ago during one of his
>>>>>>>>>>>>recording sessions. Probably won't be long now until the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>cRap-related shooting and/or killing news breaks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Won't be long before some white guy kills another white guy either.
>>>>>>>>>>>What's your point?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>There are hundreds of millions of white guys on the planet. So one
>>>>>>>>>>killing another hardly defies the law of averages.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There are also hundreds of millions of black guys on the planet but
>>>>>>>>>I'm willing to bet you have some different standard for them
>>>>>>>>>regardless.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Actually, you lose again. Quite the contrary, I believe everyone
>>>>>>>>should be held to the same standards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LOL!!! You 'believe' you believe that (denial allows all kinds of
>>>>>>>delusions). Your words demonstrate that you have varying standards
>>>>>>>for just about everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Where's the evidence?
>>>>>>
>>>>>In your posts.
>>>>
>>>>Let's try this again: Where's the evidence?
>>>>
>>>In your posts.
>>
>>I think there's an echo here, or at least in your mind.
>
>Or your just incredibly stupid and can't understand a simply sentence.
Nope. You're just guessing again, wildly too.
>>>>>>>> Which is why I oppose AA,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...but say nothing about things like Alumni admissions which favor
>>>>>>>white people or the inherent processes that favor whites in the system
>>>>>>>as a whole.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wrong, alumni admissions don't only favor white folks, they favor
>>>>>>equally all those who are descendants of previous students. So given
>>>>>>that many blacks have gone to college over the past 2 or 3 decades,
>>>>>>it's fair to say their children will benefit equally from alumni
>>>>>>connections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Why should ANY alumni have such a right for their children and why
>>>>>isn't it just as offensive as doing something just for blacks?
>>>>
>>>>Because it's one of the perks of getting a college education.
>>>>
>>>That doesn't explain why it exists. It allows unqualified candidates
>>>special treatment through no merit of their own. If it's wrong to do
>>>it for one group it's wrong to do it for any group unless you're
>>>simply a hypocrite.
>>
>>Wrong, alumni still have to meet admission standards. The problem
>>with the better colleges has been that they get far-more qualified
>>applicants than they have spots for. So you get a few points if one
>>of your parents was good enough to get in AND you yourself are
>>qualified.
>>
>The same standards for AA, except the preference is based on race
>instead of who your daddy was.
Close, but the preference is based on an individual's background, not
which demographic profile he fits into.
>>>>>>>>relaxed standards, set-asides, "diversity" targets and the like. But
>>>>>>>>you made a nice attempt to dodge my point above about cRappers and the
>>>>>>>>news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You provide 'anecdotes' and presume that they represent whole groups
>>>>>>>of people and I point out how bigotted that is. You don't like it, to
>>>>>>>bad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wrong again, I've provided *much more* than mere anecdotes. Like a
>>>>>>lengthy, fact-filled list of cRappers who died young and violent
>>>>>>deaths, for example.
>>>>>
>>>>>A list compiled by some white person
>>>>
>>>>How do you know the author wasn't black?
>>>>
>>>Are you claiming that he was or attempting to create some red herring?
>>
>>I'm claiming nothing one way or the other. Where's your evidence or
>>basis to support your claim that he's white.
>>
>The web site.
It said he was white? I must have missed that. Do you have a quote.
>>>>>who did nothing except compile a
>>>>>list of black people who died viiolent deaths. It's no more relevant
>>>>>than a list of people who died at the hands of postal workers except
>>>>>that your bigotry focuses on one more than the other for racial
>>>>>reasons.
>>>>
>>>>cRappers are considered by some to be role models, whereas nobody I
>>>>know considers postal workers anything other than that. And cRappers
>>>>show up on TV and radio all the time, whereas 99.9% of postal workers
>>>>remain anonymous outside their families and workplace.
>>>>
>>>So what? The dialog isn't about who gets on television or becomes
>>>role models it's about violent deaths regardless of if they are
>>>related to a specific way of making a living. It's a stupid standard
>>>that you and this silly preacher created.
>>
>>Nope, and while violent deaths happen across the land every day, most
>>people don't want to emulate the "lifestyles" that led to them (or
>>even know about them). But cRap is different, since many young people
>>explicitly DO try to life out the "lifestyle".
>>
>People don't want to become postal workers?
I've not seen many touting that particular "lifestyle", for example,
by dressing up like one.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Busta Rhymez Facing BOYCOTT In Da `Hood?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/edaa6d8ec02f8e
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 9:52 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 06:34:47 -0700, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 03:40:29 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 07:11:59 -0800, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 00:12:29 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:45:26 -0800, Von Bailey
>>>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:42:13 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:55:53 -0800, Von Bailey
>>>>>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:20:53 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Busta Rhymes Silence in Bodyguards Shooting May Spur CD Boycott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/bustarhymes222
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2006
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>By: Leonard Greene, Special to BlackAmericaWeb.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talk about hypocrisy. Dick Cheney can shoot someone in the face and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not talk to anyone about it but Busta must speak when there is no real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>evidence that he has any information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Huh? By his own words and that of others, Trevor Smith (oops, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>meant Busta Rhymes) was standing just a few feet away from Mr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rodriguez, possibly right next to him, when he was gunned down. So,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there is evidence that Mr Smith does indeed have plenty of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>informantion to give.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nothing you've just said says he has anything to say outside of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>acknowledging that he was there. It is entirely possible to have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there and not seen a shooter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Except that he told Rodriguez's widow otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Have some quotes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/389531p-330409c.html :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Cops now believe Rhymes' hired muscle, Israel Ramirez, was slain when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>he grabbed the shooter's gun outside a Brooklyn hip-hop video studio,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the rapper stood nearby, police sources said."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" `Busta said he was there when it happened,` said Ramirez's sister
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Claurice Lara, who took Rhymes' 20-minute condolence call Monday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>`He said he would do everything in his power to get justice done.` "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This quote appears to say that he was there (something that we already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>know, along with about 50 other people) and that he would do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything in his power to see that justice is done. He doesn't say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything about knowing who the shooter is at all contrary to your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>implications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What he told the widow was more than "I was there". He told her he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>was *with* Ramirez when he bought it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where's the quote?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You'll have to ask her.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Why? You're the one who made the claim you that SHE said Busta Rhymes
>>>>>>>>>>>said he was there. Well, where's the quote? You either read a quote
>>>>>>>>>>>of her making that claim or you just made it up out of thin air. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>betting on the latter as it is your norm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It was reported in the news stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Where's the quote? Your claim that it was reported is not credible as
>>>>>>>>>you make such claims without the ability to provide evidence to back
>>>>>>>>>it up all the time. Where's the site liar?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Do a search, why must I always do yer homework for you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Because you are lying and telling me to go search for something that
>>>>>>>doesn't exist is your feeble attempt to obscure the fact that you have
>>>>>>>lied.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wrong. Try again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Then where's the site liar? You made a claim that the widow claimed
>>>>>that Rhymes told her more than is publicly known. Where's the quotes
>>>>>liar? I NEVER claimed they existed so asking me to go look for
>>>>>something that YOU and ONLY YOU claim existed is a transparent dodge.
>>>>
>>>>IOW, ya haven't bothered looking for the facts. From:
>>>>http://www.bet.com/Music/DAILY+MUSIC+NEWS+Tony+Yayo.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished&Referrer=%7B03CE5360-2620-42CB-AD7E-77E4249C5FB7%7D
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, it means that I won't go searching for something just because you
>>>say it exists.
>>
>>You asked a question, I gave you the cite, and now you say you don't
>>want to "search"? There's nothing to search, now start reading.
>>
>I asked for a quote and you supply hearsay, thus demonstrating that
>you don't know what a quote is.
Wrong, I gave you a quote, from the article. Now quit stalling.
>>>>"Israel Ramirez's widow, Amelin Fernandez told Police that Busta
>>>>Rhymes phoned her to express his condolences, and during the call, he
>>>>told her that he was standing besides Ramirez when he was killed.
>>>>Now, police are also seeking to question Busta, who has yet to release
>>>>a statement about the shooting and originally told police immediately
>>>>after the shooting he was inside the studio when the gunfire erupted
>>>>outside. Police believe Busta can help them get to the bottom of what
>>>>occurred."
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's not a quote, that's the police saying that someone else said
>>>something. It's called hearsay. So you are reduced again to what the
>>>police say was said. And of course, you being the sycophant that you
>>>are, simply swallow it whole.
>>
>>And you have evidence that Mrs Ramirez subsequently denied this
>>account?
>>
>Do you have evidence that she is even aware that they account has been
>put forth? Do you have any evidence to demonstrate that anyone even
>asked her if that statement was true?
So you know I'm right but can't bring yourself to fess up, so you toss
out red herrings instead. Same old tactics.
>>>>>>>>>>More importantly, the NYPD
>>>>>>>>>>believes this to be the case, based on what they have put together so
>>>>>>>>>>far, and this is why they are anxious to interview Trevor Smith. He
>>>>>>>>>>should be man enough to show up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Or the NYPD should start doing their job and looking down other clues
>>>>>>>>>to find the murderer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>All remaining clues are held by folks like Rhymes, Tony Yayo, and a
>>>>>>>>few others who so far refuse to cooperate. What are the po-lice
>>>>>>>>supposed to do to fill in the blanks, hire a psychic?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where's the evidence that these other people have 'clues' that might
>>>>>>>help the police? Again you make the stupid assumption that they are
>>>>>>>not speaking to the police because they have something to hide as
>>>>>>>opposed to not helping the police because they have nothing to offer.
>>>>>>>There is NOTHING wrong with the police sending any questions that they
>>>>>>>have to Rhymes' lawyer for a written response. Why don't they simply
>>>>>>>do that instead of spending all this time on blaming him for their
>>>>>>>inability to do their job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The cops ARE trying to do their job, by attempting to interview those
>>>>>>who were present at the shooting. What's wrong with that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Then send his lawyer the questions they have in a letter and they will
>>>>>probably be answered. What's wrong with that?
>>>>
>>>>Plenty. Geez yer ignorance knows no bounds.
>>>>
>>>But apparently you haven't the ability to articulate what "plenty" is.
>>
>>Just read the entire posting.
>>
>Lying again. One of your best traits.
More red herrings.
>>>>>>>>>If they could provide proof that Rhymes could
>>>>>>>>>provide any valuable evidence instead of the police using this as a
>>>>>>>>>distraction from the fact that they can't do their job there is a law
>>>>>>>>>called 'obstruction of justice' that could be used to coerce Mr.
>>>>>>>>>Rhymes into saying something. But obviously there is nothing to this
>>>>>>>>>as they have no compelling reason to believe Mr. Rhymes knows anymore
>>>>>>>>>than any of the other 50 people who were there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is why the NYPD commissioner has been threatening Rhymes with a
>>>>>>>>subpoena, because he knows what went down that night, and who was
>>>>>>>>involved in the "beef" that (as it often does) resulted in the guns
>>>>>>>>being whipped out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You have proof that he knows what went down that night? No, you
>>>>>>>don't. You simply have bought into the story the police have put
>>>>>>>forth to excuse their inability to do their job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll believe them before I believe cRap apologists like you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>So you don't have any evidence to back up your accusations, just your
>>>>>bigotted notiions backed by people making excuses for their inability
>>>>>to do their jobs.
>>>>
>>>>Yer premise is incorrect, rendering the entire sentence moot.
>>>>
>>>So where's the evidence liar?
>>
>>I have posted and/or quoted from numerous news accounts. I can give
>>no more evidence until these miscreants do the right thing and start
>>cooperating with the police -- or until they get subpeonaed .
>>
>So you have no evidence, just accusations based on the police not
>being able to do their job and blaming people they can't prove knows
>anything about the case.
And more guessing too. OK, wait until the shooter is apprehended (and
sooner or later, he will be) and the wait for the evidence to be put
on display during the trial. You will then be forced to admit that I
was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's the kind of ignorance that puts innocent people in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What ignorance?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ignorance that assumes that speaking to the police can have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>consequences to an innocent person.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not ignorance, fact. Why on earth would someone who has honestly done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*nothing wrong* have to worry about the "consequences" of telling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what he knows or saw to rightful law enforcement authorities?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tell that to the people they found in Illinois on death row and other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>parts of the country were DNA evidence is the only thing that saves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>them from being executed for something that they DIDN'T do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>'Cooperating' with the police put those people in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Huh? No one is saying Smith (Rhymes) or most of the others are
>>>>>>>>>>>>suspects in any way in the shootiing. He's only wanted as a witness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Especially since a man who worked for him was gunned down only a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>feet from where Smith (Rhymes) was apparently standing. Yer mixing
>>>>>>>>>>>>apples and oranges here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You didn't ask about Rhymes, you asked about "someone who has honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>done *nothing wrong*" and the people I referenced honestly did nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>wrong, cooperated with the police and were thrown in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Oh really? Then they couldn't have "honestly did nothing wrong" here,
>>>>>>>>>>could they?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's a stupid assumption to make.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>NO, it's the only possible one to make!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If your stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You claim that people "honestly did nothing wrong, cooperated with the
>>>>>>police and were thrown in jail" anyway. Now THAT is stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>The fact that people are put in jail and let out because they have
>>>>>been found to have not done what they were accused demonstrates just
>>>>>that.
>>>>
>>>>Examples please.
>>>>
>>>First I want to make sure that you are denying that people go to jail
>>>who aren't supposed to.
>>
>>I'm not denying anything, only questioning your contradictory claim
>>that someone who has "done nothing wrong" but cooperates with police
>>during some investigation suddenly find themselves tossed in the can.
>>
>I don't have to provide evidence of something that you aren't
>questioning is true.
Except that you made a paradoxical claim: Someone went to jail for
doing nothing wrong. Guess what, juries don't usually send people to
prison for doing "nothing wrong". So where's the evidence?
>>>>>>>>>>>>Busta Rhymes isn't helping the cops only because he doesn't want to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>perceived as a "snitch" among those who live the gangsta thug
>>>>>>>>>>>>"lifestyle"; he's not man enough to deal with that. He's not facing
>>>>>>>>>>>>any jail time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>...and you presume to read his mind because it favors your bigoted
>>>>>>>>>>>interpretation of him and his actions. Another interesting ability
>>>>>>>>>>>you claim without the least bit of evidence of having. In your silly
>>>>>>>>>>>mind he should obvioulsy do what you say instead of his lawyer because
>>>>>>>>>>>you obviously have his best interests in mind from a bigots POV.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If Trevor Smith (aka Busta Rhymes) was *man enough* to do the right
>>>>>>>>>>thing, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now, as he
>>>>>>>>>>would have answered the detective's questions by the next day after
>>>>>>>>>>the shooting, and moved on. And then perhaps the detectives would be
>>>>>>>>>>closer to making an arrest for the murderer of that young man.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>...or the police could just go out and do their jobs and stop blaming
>>>>>>>>>it on people that have nothing to do with it. Again, if they have ANY
>>>>>>>>>evidence that Mr. Rhymes has ANY KNOWLEDGE then why don't they use it?
>>>>>>>>>They don't. They are just willing to imply it to project blame for
>>>>>>>>>their incompetence on someone else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The process to get him (or anyone) to talk via the courts takes some
>>>>>>>>time, but the groundwork is being laid. Stop kidding yerself, he WILL
>>>>>>>>sing (no pun intended) sooner or later.
>>>>>>>>http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/60501.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>More police supposition. The tape "may have been edited", but they
>>>>>>>have no evidence to demonstrate that it "has been edited". They
>>>>>>>"think an audio tape might be fake" but they don't have the tape so
>>>>>>>again, supposition. They have NO EVIDENCE that Rhymes has any
>>>>>>>involvement or knowledge of the killing. But putting his name out
>>>>>>>there certainly distracts from the fact that they can't do their job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There's plenty of evidence that Rhymes knows what went down, he was
>>>>>>standing right there. He doesn't deny that he was there. So there is
>>>>>>reason to want to ask him some simple questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Then do as his lawyer said and send him the questions. There is no
>>>>>reason to create a circus and watch Rhymes walk into police
>>>>>headquarters giving people like you grist for your racist tirades.
>>>>
>>>>Trevor Smith's lawyers don't tell the NYPD detectives how to do their
>>>>jobs, it's simple as that.
>>>
>>>...and the NYPD detectives don't have the right to drag in anybody
>>>they feel like without having some reasonable assumption that they are
>>>involved (which explains why they haven't been able to do it so far).
>>>Mr. Smith has rights regardless of your ignorance of them.
>>
>>And I have showed quite clearly the "reasonable assumptions" that
>>suggest that Smith and some others know more about what went down that
>>day than they are letting on.
>>
>No you haven't. Again you are lying.
Go back and read what I posted.
>>>>He should get no special treatement --
>>>>instead he should hustle his ass down to the station house ASAP, like
>>>>a man.
>>>
>>>He should follow his lawyers instructions and it appears he's doing
>>>just that. If it was illegal to do what he was doing they would
>>>arrest him. Since they aren't then he is apparently within his
>>>rights.
>>
>>It's not a matter of illegality, it's a matter of doing the right
>>thing and helping bring a killer to justice. Even you wou would have
>>to agree that is the right thing to do.
>
>Agreeing that a person should be brought to justice does not mean that
>anyone the police want to question about it should be dragged into the
>police department to do so. If the police need to question him there
>are ways to do it besides him going into the police department for an
>interrogation. And Busta Rhymes has every right to participate in any
>way he wants unless they can demonstrate that he is obstructing their
>ability to prosecute this case. They can't because there is no real
>evidence that he had or saw anything relevant about the murder.
Every day he refuses cooperate strenghens the NYPD's claim that he is
obstructing their case and sooner or later, a judge will agree with
and compel Smith to start singing, so to speak.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp")
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 9:52 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:54:02 -0700, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 23:12:08 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:41:44 -0700, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:47:23 -0400, in soc.culture.african.american
>>>you wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can anyone please explain WHY this "song" is nominated for an award??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>At least someone had enough common sense to ensure a 5-second *delay*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is in effect during the show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Because it does a good job of representing the movie that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scored for, which would be the reason any song is nominated in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>oscars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can ya show us where it says THAT is the main criteria for nomination?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where did I say it was the 'main reason'? Again you misiterpret my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>words and ask me to explain your misinterpretation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes you're right. You did say it was "the" reason for its nomination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not the main reason. So my question is even more relevant now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.oscars.org/78academyawards/rules/rule16.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Read the rules and get informed before you get into discussions you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>know little about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where in the rules does it justify voting for a piece of trash.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I see. Everyone was supposed to start with the premise that YOUR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion is the only one that matters. Well, sorry to disappoint you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but the people who voted obviously couldn't care less about your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion on the matter. Try to live with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I can live with it just fine, because I realized many, many years ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that the Oscar awards committee was packed with folks who are way out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of the mainstream. Of course, I do keep hoping for a pleasant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>surprise now and then, but it looks like I've got more waiting to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's interesting that you consider yourself the definition of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'mainstream' while the real thing moves further and further from you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As I have said in the past, you will die off, just like all the old
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>people who ranted about how rock and roll, jazz and any other kind of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>music that moved into the mainstream was destroying something and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>never did. And Rap Music will still be here...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cRap music will be still be here for a small group of knuckleheads,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but just because the super-liberal Hollywood types saw fit to give it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ONE award doesn't mean that it is now "accepted" by the mainstream,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>because it isn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's right. Stay in denial you serve a purpose there. An example
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of a dying breed. First step, they deny the world is changing around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them, fail to adapt and die off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, wrong and wrong. Now quit dreaming, get out of bed and go do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something constructive. Like chase the pimps off your block.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>My neighborhood apprently doesn't share the same type of people as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>yours. There are no pimps to worry about around here that I am aware
>>>>>>>>>>>>>of.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Did you open your eyes after hitting the street?. But I can assure
>>>>>>>>>>>>you there are NO pimps, gangs, etc, on my block.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Well, you're the one bringing them up so I guess we are again subject
>>>>>>>>>>>to you speaking on a subject of which you are totally ignorant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Yes, I plead guilty to having first-person experience with them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well then I stand corrected. Given that you say that pimps aren't in
>>>>>>>>>your neighborhood I guess you traveled somewhere to have this
>>>>>>>>>'experience' with pimps. A new side of you comes out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wrong, you stand incorrect as usual. I was talking about the
>>>>>>>>assurance that there are no pimps, gangs, etc, on my block. Because I
>>>>>>>>have a very good ongoing first-person experience with what goes on
>>>>>>>>around here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You didn't say you had a first person experience with "what goes on
>>>>>>>around here" you said you had a first person experience with the
>>>>>>>subject that was at hand, pimps and hoes. Now that you've been
>>>>>>>discovered you're running from your words.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nope, you're just taking my words out of context. Something that's
>>>>>>always given you problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>So now you deny that you have personal experience with them. Your
>>>>>going back on your word is not unusual but expected so feel free.
>>>>
>>>>Nothing to go back on. You quoted me out of context. Nothing more.
>>>>
>>>How is you saying you have first person experience with pimps and hoes
>>>taking your words out of context when in response to a question about
>>>them you responded, "Yes, I plead guilty to having first-person
>>>experience with them."? It's not. You're just to disingenuous to
>>>even admit to your own words.
>>
>>Still taking things out-of-context, I see.
>>
>Not at all. And the fact that you cannot demonstrate HOW I have taken
>your words out of context illustrates that you either don't know how
>or are hoping your lies are sufficient.
Nope, I told you how you did.
>>>>>>>>>> Nor does
>>>>>>>>>>it change my conviction that under no circumstances do I want a pimp
>>>>>>>>>>and his entourage of hos EVER to show up in my neighborhood.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yet you claim 'first-person experience'. Where'd the 'experience'
>>>>>>>>>come from?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now I know you are confused.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So you didn't have the experience you claim above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have what I claimed -- knowledge about what goes on in the streets
>>>>>>around my house. Or in the case of pimps, hos, drugs, etc, what
>>>>>>doesn't go on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Really? What is this "knowledge" based on? How did you come about to
>>>>>*know* this as factual?
>>>>
>>>>Getting out and about in the immediate vicinity where I live, day and
>>>>night. Guess what, no sign of hos, pimps, dope dealers, etc. No
>>>>graffiti, no nothing.
>>>
>>>What makes you think that finding them would be as easy as "getting
>>>out and about in the immediate vicinity"? Are you under the
>>>assumption that they would be walking the streets? Don't you think
>>>that they would be acting a bit less conspicuous than that?
>>
>>I guess you haven't seen how pimpz dress and drive these days.
>
>No I haven't. Not my crowd. But given that you have admitted to
>"personal experience" I will bow to your knowledge here. How do they
>dress?
Just look at any movie that deals with life in the `hood.
>>Or
>>maybe they just don't stand out in your part of the world. But I can
>>assure you, they would stick out like a sore-thumb in my area.
>>
>Which means that you travel to some other area to indulge in this
>personal experience you claimed to have.
Yes, it would, should I have been so inclined to request services from
one. But guess what, I haven't been inclined, nor do I plan to be
inclined at any forseeable time in the future.
>>>>Boring? Yes. Which suits me just fine, as I
>>>>wouldn't want to try to go to sleep every night to sounds of gunfire,
>>>>stabbings, police sirens, cRap "music" blaring, drunkards and
>>>>dopeheads screaming and pissing on the streets, etc.
>>>>
>>>Whose neighborhood do you think you're discribing?
>>
>>Not mine of course, since I don't live in the `hood, nor do I live
>>anywhere near where the "projects" are located.
>>
>Not an answer to my question. Whose neighborhood are you discribing?
See above, the same response to how to see how a pimp dresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you claiming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that the song has nothing to do with the movie it was scored for? Are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you claiming that such a criteria has nothing to do with it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nomination?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Virutally every movie made over the past 40 years has a soundtrack, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the fact that this putrid film has a song that "represents" it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>meaningless. I still have no idea, upon reviewing the lyrics, why on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>earth *this* song is worthy of an award.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's because, as you have already admitted, you haven't seen the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>film and you are a poor judge of whether or not it effectively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>represents the film for just that reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Since nearly every movie made has at least one song that "represents"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it at least as well as this one, I still don't see why *this* one has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to win the award.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You haven't seen the movie so you have no legitmate metric to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your judgement from. Until then it's just you ranting your usual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uninformed opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, I DO have a "legitmate metric" -- it's called the lyrics, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I and others around here have referred to, including right here on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this thread. Now grab some coffee, then open yer eyes, and yer mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your "legitmate metric" is not the one that the oscars use so as far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the "oscar winners" your metric is useless. Go find someone who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cares about the songs of old white men wishing for the past.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You missed the point as usual. Of course the Oscar folks didn't take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the lyrics into account when selecting the award -- if they did, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would have had to give the award to someone else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>According to you who was not part of the process and as such has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nothing except your bigotted notiions to draw from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nothing except the words of the lyrics themselves, which were freely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>available to any interested party before the awards were decided, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thus could have (and should have) been reviewed by the members of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>committee before the vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if the words won by themselves you might have a point. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>unlike you, the people who voted have the ability not only to read the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>words but listen to them with music and then associate them to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>movie in which it was written for. Thus, not suffering your apparent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>ignorance they had the ability to vote in a way you couldn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong. The association was clear enough, and it was all garbage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Your ability to make the association to a movie you didn't see would
>>>>>>>>>>>be miraculous if it was true. But since it isn't we have another
>>>>>>>>>>>demonstration of you speaking of things of which you are ignorant,
>>>>>>>>>>>again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, because I know to read, and thus having read the lyrics of the
>>>>>>>>>>"song" that was deemed worthy of an Oscar, I found out all I needed to
>>>>>>>>>>know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No doubt. An ignorant superficial person such as yourself wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>want to take into account the entire scope of criteria to judge the
>>>>>>>>>song. Prejudging something without all the evidence is one of your
>>>>>>>>>specialties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The lyrics are all the evidence I need, and you should read them too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>True, you are of course the psuedo-great white man. Why should you
>>>>>>>actually use the criteria for the award to judge the song? You, in
>>>>>>>your infinate fake powers *believe* you know better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Guess what silly one, *I* didn't write those lyrics, some black guy
>>>>>>did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Guess what stupid one, *I* didn't say you did write them.
>>>>
>>>>But you said I believe I know better. Well, no, I don't have to
>>>>"know", I just need to be able to read the lyrics.
>>>
>>>Which is the most superficial way to judge a song writen for a movie
>>>being judged on how it represents the movie. But then superficial is
>>>your specialty.
>>
>>Oh, so the lyrics mean nothing? Just a collection of words tossed
>>together, almost at random?
>
>No. They are a collection of words put together to give meaning and
>depth to a movie. A point obvious to most and oblivious to you.
No, just the oppposite. I agree wholeheartedly with your point about
the lyrics giving "meaning and depth to a movie". Because it
contracdicts *your* own argument about superficiality here. The words
DO mean something, in context of the movie, and in this case (the
Oscar), the lyrics say it all.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Time For Blacks To Declare A Culture War?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/573fb76db7781873
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 9:52 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:56:19 -0700, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:31:11 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:50:40 -0700, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:32:05 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 20:54:17 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/404374p-342477c.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Specifically, we need aggressive, concerted action by members and
>>>>>>>>>>>>institutions of the respectable black middle class to do open combat
>>>>>>>>>>>>against the rise of an ancient enemy: a bold, seductive street
>>>>>>>>>>>>culture that exalts lawlessness, addiction and anti-family behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>like pimping, sexual promiscuity, ignorance and personal selfishness."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Now before anyone screams "racism" or "bigot", click on the link below
>>>>>>>>>>>>and note that the author is as much as an African-American (born in
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harlem, now lives in Brooklyn) as any other black man.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You say that as if a black person can't work towards the goal of those
>>>>>>>>>>>who work against black people. That's why your stupid rationales
>>>>>>>>>>>never make sense, they are based on ridiculous assumptions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No, the ridiculous assumption here is yours, namely that blacks like
>>>>>>>>>>Mr Louis are working "against", not for, black people. So, in the
>>>>>>>>>>case of someone like him, who was born in Harlem and lives among his
>>>>>>>>>>fellow blacks in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn (a mostly black
>>>>>>>>>>section of Brooklyn, which itself is mostly black), why on earth would
>>>>>>>>>>he not want to advance the cause of black people, since he is one of
>>>>>>>>>>them and lives among them?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>To make money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You really ARE simple-minded..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The assumption that money isn't a powerful motivator is simple-minded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Please explain what that has to with a black columnist who obviously
>>>>>>works and lives among his fellow blacks, wanting to lift up those
>>>>>>around him. How is condemning "pimping, sexual promiscuity, ignorance
>>>>>>and personal selfishness" in the `hood working "against" black people?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>No, he's condemning a certain kind of music as if it's a source of a
>>>>>problem instead of one of the symptoms. Pimping, sexual prmiscuity
>>>>>and ignorance was around long before rap and by more than just black
>>>>>people. It isn't a 'black problem' it is a subject and POV that will
>>>>>get him published in newspapers and magazines. Whether or not he
>>>>>honestly shares the feelings he rants is irrelevant as they are
>>>>>superficial attacks that will result in nothing except his getting
>>>>>into print, noticed and paid.
>>>>
>>>>IOW, yer head is stuck deep in the sand, and you like it just fine
>>>>right there. As for the rest of your copouts, "pimping, sexual
>>>>prmiscuity and ignorance" are NOT big problems today in most
>>>>communities, outside of the `hood. You're simply too out of touch.
>>>>
>>>So are you claiming only people "in the hood" (where ever that may be)
>>>are pimping women, act sexually promiscuous or ignorant or are you
>>>saying that it's only a problem with people "in the hood" and when
>>>other people act in the same way it's not a problem?
>>
>>Yes, yes, yes and no.
>
>Well, again you happen to be wrong.
No, looks like you are just guessing as usual. Otherwise, you would
have had some proof that I'm wrong, but it looks like you didn't
provide any. What a surprise.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Colin Powell now says "I never believed" Iraq/Niger nuke connection
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/429941b2caf097f6
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 10:01 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
On 13 Apr 2006 08:21:07 -0700, jmdrake_98@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>Voice Of Reason wrote:
>
>> What IS new is that Colin Powell has admitted that "mistakes were
>> made" immediately after the War was won, echoing Condi Rice's recent
>> claim (but disputed by Donald Rumsfeld).
>
>Condi Rice is a joke. She admits "tactical mistakes" (duh!) but claims
>the "strategic" decisions were right. In other words she lays all of
>the blame for the Iraq morass on the people implementing the stupid
>policy out in the field while showing no remorse for the strategic
>decisions made in Washington.
Agreed. I always thought she was a bit of lightweight, not because
she's black or a woman, but because most of career prior to 2000 was
spent in the halls of academia. She has never ever held elective
office, at any level. And unlike many other women in her age group,
she has never worn the Uniform, much less seen combat. Not even the
reserves, or the Guard. But I hear she plays the piano well.
There are a few dreamers out there who want her to run for President
in 2008, and they are living in a fantasy world. I don't believe she
will run, never have, but if she does, John McCain (war hero and POW)
will eat her alive in the primary debates, for the reasons you cite,
and more.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nazis planned to kill Palestine Jews
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/99ca554e0b35f1ff
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 10:13 pm
From: "Ed"
"Theodore Herzl" <AntiZioNazi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144961502.398271.125990@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
What a load of crap.
Yes, Jeffy, everything you post IS a load of crap.
<lies deleted>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Holocaust Calendar: April 13 What really happened to the 6 million.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c31944efc7547831
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 2:20 am
From: "princeandy"
"jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1144943030.573036.226890@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> princeandy wrote:
> > thousands of Jews were not bothered by the Nazis or by the fate of their
> > "convicted" co-religionists. They went on with their daily lives in
Germany
> > while the world was running amok about the "harsh treatment of Jews in
> > Germany." <
>
> I wasn't aware that the "world was running amok" about the harsh
> treatment of Jews
> in Germany. The world was as upset about it as they were later over
> Cambodia, Rwanda
> or what is going on in Darfur today. There were words and crocodile
> tears, but not much
> more. The US entered the war after it was bombed by the Japanese and
> Germany
> subsequently declaring war upon it. SUre there were many people who
> were sympathetic
> to what they were reading, but not many who were prepared to go to war
> over it.
So what you say is the stupid allies did not start a war for us, werre not
pushed by us? Worried they might ask for even a bit of gratitude?
Ref 3 - (Joe Kennedy) The American Secretary of State, James Forrestal, who
later died in mysterious circumstances, wrote in his Forrestal Diaries
(Cassel and Co., London 1952):
'Have played golf with Joe Kennedy [US Ambassador in Britain, father of
President John Kennedy]. According to him, Chamberlain declared that Zionism
and world Jewry have obliged England to enter the war.'
http://www.heretical.com/mkilliam/wwii.html
> >To illustrate the true "fate of the Jews," one has to look at some
> > of the prominent Jewish leaders living in Germany at the time.<
>
> About 2/3ds of Germany Jews emigrated before 1939, mainly to nearby
> countries only
> to be caught by the Nazis later on. Those who made it to places out of
> Europe, or Britain
> or Switzerland were better off. As for those Jews who remained in
> Berlin and weren't
> rounded up, it was mainly because they were related to other non-JEwish
> Germans and
> may have been prominent. After all, Hitler was trying to hide what he
> was doing on in the
> rest of Europe from his own people, not all of whom were the heartless
> beasts as he was,
> so were permitted to dawdle in Germany to show other Germans that the
> "propaganda"
> of Jews being mass murdered in other places were just "exaggerated
> enemy propaganda."
> They would have been "taken care of" in time anyway.
>
> > These are very important questions, because so many prominent Jews
survived
> > the alleged Holocaust. Simon Wiesenthal, Eli Wiesel, Leo Baeck, Max
> > Nussbaum, and so many more like them. As a matter of fact, approximately
4.5
> > million Jews "survived."<
>
> If 4.5 million Jews survived it means that 5.5 million Jews didn't
> survive, since most
> census estimates put the number of Jews in Europe and the Soviet Union
> as about 10
> million, Rubbish -
http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holox/d6mrd05.htm
6m tops in which should be nobody left.
give or take up to 1 million either way since birth and other
> records in Poland and outside of Germany were not as exact as in
> Germany.
You must be a zionist, no reputed source supports either the census except
jewish zionist sources. And if you want to check how blatantly they lie,
just check their supposed page of rememberance below and you will a claimed
3m but names are repeated up to 5 times a name.
>
> > ALL NOW HIDING AND ASHAMED BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY LED THEIR FAMILIES
> > FOLLOWING THE ZIONISTS INSTRUCTIONS.<
>
> What "zionist instructions?" Jabotinsky of the Right Wing was the ONLY
> zionist Jew
> who was warning JEws as to what might be coming and to get to Palestine
> ASAP.
> OTherwise, only a tiny percentage, roughly 10% of Jews, or maybe 1
> million in all of Europe
> at the very most, were zionists at the time! Most JEws in GErmany
> certainly weren't
I am not arguing with that, or cant you read? The records show that a
zionist was misinforming jews, the minor leaders of the jews were taking
there cue from the zionists and advising no resistance for going to camps
where unknown to the general non zionist jews they were going to be use as
slaves, labrats, sex slaves and their children as sex toys depending on the
likings of the German guards.
and most felt that Hitler and his antisemitic regime
> wasn't going to last forever. Most Jews in Europe outside of Germany
> had no idea that Germany was going to start a world war and try to hunt
> them all down!
Well if they did not, time went on and Germans were then worried about
another Auswichitz, so obliging zionists promised to keep things quiet, or
again caant you read.
If you said something like that in 1939 you would have
> been thought of as crazy as if you said that men would be walking on
> the moon someday!
>
> > NOT DEAD JUST HIDING AND WHO CAN BLAME THEM. THOSE ZIONISTS ARE STILL
> > LEADING.
>
> Go fuck yourself. I can't say how many JEws were killed or not during
> WWII, but I can
> say that in my own mother's immediate family, her first husband, her
> first child, her mother
> and two brothers were all killed, and she was the only one to survive.
> And that was typical
> for most of the Holocaust survivors I knew growing up. All had lost a
> few family members
> but had somehow managed to survive. So, based on the anecdotal evidence
> of survivors
> I knew growing up amongst them, for every one that did survive,
> probably 4 or 5 of their
> prewar families were murdered.
Yeah well talk to your mum again and ask her why she went to these camps,
what led her and her husband to not go underground?
Like i said to somebody else. have a good look in the mirror and you will
find a guy who if he was in nazi Germany would rather walk into a camp than
question the zionist cause.
It was not bloody brain surgery. Zionists were a force co operating with the
Germans. you obviously did not know and find it very hard to believe.
So keep your eyes tightly shut or examine the facts like the cleverest, most
informed hip part of the population you claim to be.
> >
> > http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
> > I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are
persons
> > with PhD's in various fields who
> > also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
> > recently, there was never a forensic
> > examination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). <
>
> Gas was ony responsible for perhaps 1 million murders as it came into
> use late in the war.
> None of my family was murdered in a gas chamber as far as I know. They
> were shot and
> probably ended up in a ditch, and undoubtedly burned later on. When
> the Russian front
> began to fizzle for Germany, many pits were dug up and much of the
> human "evidence"
> was burned into ash. Incidentally, I checked the Holocaust database to
> see if any of them
> are in their a few years back, and none were mentioned there at all.
> And when I tried to
> enter the names in the database myself, I was sent a long ball busting
> questionnaire and finally decided to say "fuck it" and gave up trying
> to put their names in there. So no one alive
> knows about my family's deaths but ME! My mom is now dead, and I don't
> think there is
> anyone still alive who could verify my family ever existed. And I'm not
> going to Poland as
> some Jews to roam around and try to find old people who by off chance
> MAY have known
> them. What for? To prove something to holocaust deniers? They are
> never going to change
> no matter what in any case.
>
>
> Demographic figures
> > are incomplete. After the fall
> > of East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled
Poland
> > into the Soviet Union or ended up
> > behind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many
civilians
> > died in the war, many died in the
> > concentration camps of louse-born typhus. <
>
> Why should they have been in concentration camps at all? Were Jews all
> prisoners of war?
> So even if most or even all had died of typhus, does that exonerate
> Germany in some way?
> I don't thing dying from gas is any more humane than dying from
> typhus, starvation or a
> bullet in the head! I'm very sorry this whole "Gas chamber" thing
> became such an issue
> after WWII. It has given the enemy antisemites a cause celebre to use
> to deny the essential
> crime: rounding up civilians and murdering by one means or another for
> no other reason
> than they belonged to some despised minority!
>
> >During World War One, two million
> > civilians in the Soviet Union died
> > of typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.
> > Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a
Holocaust
> > Documentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged
victims
> > of Nazi
> > extermination. But as you can see HERE
> > (http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann),
nearly
> > every name is listed at least
> > twice, some as many as five times!
> >
> > Yad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearly
> > everyone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, including
> > you can submit a "Page of Testimony".
> >
> > Name Town District
Region
> > Country Bday Source
> >
> > Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin
Germany
> > 1879 list of victims from Germany
> > Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin
Germany
> > 1879 list of deportation from Berlin
> > Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin
Germany
> > 1905 list of deportation from Berlin<
>
> My family isn't even in there at all! So on the one hand you'll argue
> that there are many
> duplications in the data base, and other hand you will claim that I am
> a liar since there
> is no mention of them in the database!
>
> > It is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions
with
> > louse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)
> > or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or tortured
> > confessors. <
>
> "Tortured confessors?" You mean the allies tortured some holocaust
> survivors to give
> false information? But to find out if it is impossible to exterminate
> people with Zyklon B.
> why don't YOU offer yourself as an experiment. I will have you stripped
> naked and put you in a sealed room and pour in a canister of Zyklon B
> and if you aren't dead within twenty minutes, I'll become a holocaust
> denier too! Is it a bet? If you aren't dead within twenty
> minutes, I'l become the most avid holocaust denier you ever saw! If you
> do die, I'll burn
> you in an Auschwitz-style crematoria oven and measure how much fuel and
> time required to turn you into soot. And if it cannot be done with the
> amount of fuel and within the time estimated, I will put a note in your
> urn, that you were wrong about the Zyklon B having homocidal
> properties, but right that the time and fuel required to burn a body
> made the
> numbers claimed to be burned up by the crematoria improbable. Deal?
>
> >
> There are no written orders for
> > extermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration
camps
> > show no smoke and flames
> > belching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and
records
> > show there was not enough coke or
> > crematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and
confessors
> > lied about how many minutes it takes
> > to cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount
of
> > carbon monoxide to kill a human. If
> > the Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal fired
> > train into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed
> > 'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from the
> > crematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhus
> > epidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving
of
> > heads and requisitions for tons of
> > Zyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messy
> > method for extermination.
> > http://www.vho.org/
> > The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open Debate
> > The Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,
> > impractical/impossible, malicious
> > atrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler and
> > perpetrated by Jews, who were always
> > looking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews have
> > extorted billions from the US Treasury,
> > Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoax
> > fraud. The Holohoax also makes
> > those who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting the
> > demon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler take
> > on Stalin alone.
> >
> > A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and
obstinate.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rabbi to Publish Book on Jewish Supremacy
> > ... One is Rabbi Saadya Grama, author of an upcoming book "On the
Exalted
> > Nature of Israel and Understanding ... Written by Rabbi Saadya Grama -
an
> > alumnus of Beth Medrash Govoha, the ...
> > more hits from:
> > ttp://atheism.about.com/b/a/057831.htm?terms=published+book - 25 KB
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.heretical.com/mkilliam/wwii.html
> > That second war was later made certain, not by the intentions of Hitler
but
> > by the determination of his eternal enemies to destroy the new Germany
that
> > he had created.
> > By the Treaty of Versailles on 28 June 1919 and the Treaty of St.
Germain on
> > 20 September of the same year, the German people were thoroughly
humiliated.
> > The British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, wrote:
> > 'The international bankers swept statesmen, politicians, journalists and
> > jurists all to one side and issued their orders with the imperiousness
of
> > absolute monarchs.'
> > ALIEN CONTROL
> > The Daily Mail reported on 10 July 1933:
> > 'The German nation, moreover, was rapidly falling under the control of
its
> > alien elements. In the last days of the pre-Hitler regime there were
twenty
> > times as many Jewish government officials in Germany as had existed
before
> > the war. Israelites of international attachments were insinuating
themselves
> > into key positions in the German administrative machine.'
> > Resentment and resistance began to build up against the alien horde and
in
> > the year before Adolf Hitler came to power Bernard Lecache, President of
the
> > World Jewish League, stated:
> > 'Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war
> > without mercy against her.'
> > On that same day, 24 March 1933, on the front page of the London Daily
> > Express appeared the main headlines: "Judaea declares war on Germany:
Jews
> > of all the world unite", and followed with:
> > 'The Israelite people of the entire world declare economic and financial
war
> > on Germany. The appearance of the Swastika as the symbol of the new
Germany
> > revives the old war symbol of the Jews. Fourteen million Jews stand as
one
> > body to declare war on Germany. The Jewish wholesale dealer leaves his
> > business, the banker his bank, the shopkeeper his shop, the beggar his
> > miserable hut in order to combine forces in the holy war against
Hitler's
> > people.'
> > The German government was removing Jews from influential positions and
> > transferring power back to the German people. This declaration of war by
the
> > Jews on Germany was repeated throughout the world. The first boycott of
> > Jewish business concerns came after this Jewish declaration of war in
April
> > 1933.
> >
> >
> > http://www.corax.org/revisionism/misc/encampment.html
> >
> >
> > http://www.rense.com/general45/zzo.htm
> > The Zionist Jewish Role In - Causing World War II
> > "In 1941, a Jewish writer, Theodor N. Kaufman, wrote Germany Must
Perish.
> > Kaufman set out a plan for the total destruction of the German
population by
> > a very simple method: the mass sterilisation of all German men and women
> > between the age of puberty and sixty years."
> >
> > From a pre-1993 edition of John Tyndall's Spearhead magazine
> > 12-9-3
> >
> >
> >
> > "Ken McVay" <kmcvay@nizkor.org.nospam> wrote in message
> > news:123rjfdm5150sd1@corp.supernews.com...
> > > [Follow-ups set]
> > >
> > > April 13
> > >
> > > 1938
> > >
> > > "...a month after the Anschluss, the Swiss Federal
> > > Department of Police and Justice wrote to the Swiss legation
> > > in Berlin, asking that German passports not be issue to
> > > Austrian immigrants -- shorthand for Jews -- in the same way
> > > as those issued to German Austrians who enjoyed a `normal
> > > relationship' with the state, meaning Christians." This
> > > action led to the imposition of the infamous "J passport" in
> > > October, which enabled Switzerland to readily identify
> > > Jewish refugees, so that they could be denied entry. (LeBor, 142)
> > >
> >
> > Casualties in WW2
> > Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration
camps
> > who far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims.
> >
> > Soviet Union 25,568,000
> > China 11,324,000
> > Germany 7,060,000
> > Poland 6,850,000
> > Japan 1,806,000
> > Yugoslavia 1,700,000
> > Rumania 985,000
> > France 810,000
> > Austria 525,000
> > Italy 410,000
> > Great Britain 388,000
> > USA 295,000
> > Holland 250,000
> > Belgium 85,000
> > Finland 79,000
> > Canada 42,000
> > India 36,000
> > Australia 29,000
> > Albania 28,000
> > Spain 22,000
> > Bulgaria 21,000
> > New Zealand 12,000
> > Norway 10,000
> > South Africa 9,000
> > Luxembourg 5,000
> > Denmark 4,000
> > TOTAL 58,353,000
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing
off
> > their uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak
Zuckerman,
> > a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.
> > http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139
> >
> >
> > Without Jewish co operation through the zionists the Germans would never
> > have had the resources to herd the Jews into the various camps. And the
> > zionists made it impossible for the underground to trust the jews.
> > Like elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the ear of
the
> > frightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this case the
Judenrat
> > comprised mainly the Zionist Federation members. Without their help the
SS,
> > with 19 officers and less than 90 men, plus a few hundred Hungarian
police,
> > could not have collected and controlled a million Jews, when they did
not
> > even know their whereabouts. Kastner and the others were left under no
> > illusions. Eichmann told Joel Brand, one of the members of Kastner's
> > committee, that he intended to send all Hungary's Jews to Auschwitz,
before
> > he even started the expulsions! He told them clearly that all these Jews
> > will die, 12,000 a day, unless certain conditions were met.
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/chabaan_2000/safad.HTM
> > Is The same authors also describe co-operation between Zionist leaders
and
> > Eichmann. It is interesting to note that the extreme right-wing
revisionists
> > only chose wealthy Jews for emigration, whereas other Zionists insisted
on
> > taking only young and healthy Jews. Eichmann helped them to carry out
these
> > plans, in return for which the Zionist Organization paid large sums to
the
> > Nazis. As Kimche says about the Zionist delegates in Germany: They had
not
> > come to Germany to save Jews. That was not their job. When the Nazis
began
> > the systematic murder of Jews in 1941, the Zionists decided neither to
> > support Jewish resistance in Europe, nor to attack the Nazis, nor to say
> > anything about the mass liquidation of their fellow Jews. Their sole
purpose
> > was to save certain selected Jews as future settlers in Palestine. They
were
> > not interested in Jews who wished to stay in their home countries and
fight
> > the Nazis.
> >
> > >"Kastner must be brought to trial as a Nazi collaborator. And at this
> > >trial, Kastner should defend himself as a private citizen, and not be
> > >defended by the Israeli Government..." (14 July 1955).
> > >
> > >*Haboker*, the pro-Government General Zionist party paper stated:
> > >
> > >"The public wants to know the real facts about Kastner, and not about
> > >him alone. The only way to find out the truth is to put all the Rescue
> > >Committee people on trial and give them a chance to offer their
> > >defense." (23 June 1955)
> > >
> > >But public opinion was not quite unanimous. The problem with bringing
> > >Kastner and his associates to trial was that his associates were the
> > >Government of Israel.
> > >
> > >As the evening paper *Yedi'ot Aharonot* said:
> > >
> > >"If Kastner is brought to trial the entire government faces a total
> > >political and national collapse - as a result of what such a trial may
> > > disclose." (23 June 1955)
> > >
> > >Accordingly, the Government of Israel did not put Kastner on trial,
> > >instead it filed an appeal against the acquittal of Greenwald for
criminal
> > >libel.
> > >
> > >As Dr. Karlebach wrote in Israel's largest evening newspaper,
> > >"Kastner must be brought to trial as a Nazi collaborator. And at this
> > >trial, Kastner should defend himself as a private citizen, and not be
> > >defended by the Israeli Government..." (14 July 1955).
> > >
> > >*Haboker*, the pro-Government General Zionist party paper stated:
> > >
> > >"The public wants to know the real facts about Kastner, and not about
> > >him alone. The only way to find out the truth is to put all the Rescue
> > >Committee people on trial and give them a chance to offer their
> > >defense." (23 June 1955)
> > >
> > >But public opinion was not quite unanimous. The problem with bringing
> > >Kastner and his associates to trial was that his associates were the
> > >Government of Israel.
> > >
> > >As the evening paper *Yedi'ot Aharonot* said:
> > >
> > >"If Kastner is brought to trial the entire government faces a total
> > >political and national collapse - as a result of what such a trial may
> > > disclose." (23 June 1955)
> > >
> > >Accordingly, the Government of Israel did not put Kastner on trial,
> > >instead it filed an appeal against the acquittal of Greenwald for
criminal
> > >libel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 1943
> > >
> > > With a few exceptions, Jews in the remaining three provinces
> > > of Holland are ordered to move to Amsterdam. The
> > > consolidation is later abandoned as impractical. (See March 12.)
> > >
> >
> > http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
> > I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are
persons
> > with PhD's in various fields who
> > also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
> > recently, there was never a forensic
> > examination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic
figures
> > are incomplete. After the fall
> > of East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled
Poland
> > into the Soviet Union or ended up
> > behind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many
civilians
> > died in the war, many died in the
> > concentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two
million
> > civilians in the Soviet Union died
> > of typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.
> > Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a
Holocaust
> > Documentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged
victims
> > of Nazi
> > extermination. But as you can see HERE
> > (http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann),
nearly
> > every name is listed at least
> > twice, some as many as five times!
> >
> > Yad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearly
> > everyone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, including
> > you can submit a "Page of Testimony".
> >
> > Name Town District
Region
> > Country Bday Source
> >
> > Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin
Germany
> > 1879 list of victims from Germany
> > Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin
Germany
> > 1879 list of deportation from Berlin
> > Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin
Germany
> > 1905 list of deportation from Berlin
> >
> > It is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions
with
> > louse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)
> > or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or tortured
> > confessors. There are no written orders for
> > extermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration
camps
> > show no smoke and flames
> > belching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and
records
> > show there was not enough coke or
> > crematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and
confessors
> > lied about how many minutes it takes
> > to cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount
of
> > carbon monoxide to kill a human. If
> > the Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal fired
> > train into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed
> > 'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from the
> > crematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhus
> > epidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving
of
> > heads and requisitions for tons of
> > Zyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messy
> > method for extermination.
> > http://www.vho.org/
> > The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open Debate
> > The Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,
> > impractical/impossible, malicious
> > atrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler and
> > perpetrated by Jews, who were always
> > looking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews have
> > extorted billions from the US Treasury,
> > Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoax
> > fraud. The Holohoax also makes
> > those who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting the
> > demon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler take
> > on Stalin alone.
> >
> > A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and
obstinate.
> >
> >
> > > The bodies of four thousand Polish officers are found in
> > > mass graves in the Katyn forest of Soviet Russia. The
> > > Germans immediately charge that they were killed by the
> > > Soviets before the German advance into the area, marking the
> > > beginning of a decades-long controversy about who was
> > > responsible for the massacre. (Since then, the former Soviet
> > > Union has accepted responsibility for the massacre.) (Ibid.,
> > > p. 30)
> >
> >
> > THE FIRST WORDS OF TRUTH I HAVE SEEN HERE ABOVE.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > 1944
> > >
> >
> > > The seventy-first convoy, which carries fifteen hundred
> > > Jews,
> >
> > The cream of the population who hapily took their children, on what they
> > were convinced by ZIONISTS was either a holiday camps or special camp
for
> > the clever jews.
> >
> > YOU THINK BEING CARTED UP IN CATTLE TRUCKS MIGHT HAVE GIVEN IT AWAY.
> >
> > However faithful to their zionist leaders there was no resisitance and
all
> > bore the discomforts and did not complain on th reassuranxes of their
> > zionist leaders.
> >
> > The same people that are leading them today. With the same lack of
concern
> > foe jewish kives young or old, so it would seem even less concern for
non
> > jewish lives.
> >
> >
> >
> > departs Drancy for Auschwitz, arriving there on April
> > > 16. The transport includes some of the children arrested at
> > > Izieu the week before. (See March 27 and April 6.) (USHMM
> > > 1994, 38)
> > http://www.thenausea.com/elements/thenotforgotten/rachel/index.html
> > http://www.nogw.com/israeliatrocities.html
> > http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1066817,00.html
> > http://www.rachelcorrie.org/
> >
> > >
> > > German troops kill 589 people, including two hundred
> > > children, after retaking the town of Staryi Krym in the
> > > Crimea, which was liberated earlier by partisans. (Ibid.)
> > >
> > > The Jerusalem Post correspondent Hirsh Goodman - THEY HAVE NOT
RECEIVED
> > ANY TERRORIST TRAINING
> > , nor are they members of a terrorist organization. Rather they are
> > members of that Palestinian generation that grew up knowing nothing but
> > occupation
> >
> > Rabin ordered house-to-house searches, first for young men and later for
> > anyone of whom an example might be made. By December 27, over 2,500
> > Palestinians were seized,
> > MANY OF THEM AS YOUNG AS TWELVE;
> > by the end of January the number reached 4,000 and was rising
> >
> > The first priority is to use force, might, beatings. [This] is
considered
> > more effective than detention ... [because] he may then resume stoning
> > soldiers. But if troops break his hand, he won't be able to throw stones
> >
> > The protestant and catholic churches in Ireland and England certainly
did
> > not advocate this, nor did any politician publicly endorse breaking the
> > culprits hands, and the Irish kids were throwing Molotov cocktails in
> > exactly the same situation?
> >
> > The first priority is to use force, might, beatings. [This] is
considered
> > more effective than detention ... [because] he may then resume stoning
> > soldiers. But if troops break his hand, he won't be able to throw stones
> > They entered the house like animals, shouting," the 22-year old student
at
> > Bir Zeit University said. "They took us from the house, kicking us in
the
> > head, beating us, all the soldiers with their rifle butts."
> >
> > By April 1988 over 150 Palestinians had died. The Israeli government had
> > admitted to the arrest of 2,000 people, bringing the acknowledged total
to
> > 4,000. The real figure was far higher.
> >
> > In the Balata camp outside Nablus, and in the Casbah - the old quarter -
> > l, 000 people were arrested in a period of 48 hours.
> > The discovery of people in ditches in the fields -
> > SHOT IN THE BACK OR WITH THEIR HEADS CAVED IN -
> > has been reported from villages throughout the West Bank and Gaza
> >
> > Army units go from house to house pulling youths from their beds at 3
a.m.
> > As the buses fill, the soldiers beat the youths viciously around the
head,
> > shins, groin and back. Shrieks fill the air.
> >
> > TWO OF THE CHILDREN, AGES 9 AND 11, WERE TAKEN BY THE SOLDIERS IN THEIR
> > NIGHT CLOTHES, FROG-MARCHED IN THE STREETS AND BEATEN AS THEY WERE
FORCED BY
> > THE JEERING SOLDIERS TO CLEAR DEBRIS.
> > New York Times
> > Fleets of helicopters fly over Nablus at night dropping a dense, green
toxic
> > gas over the city. The smell pervades every house. Armed units fire
> > canisters of the substance into houses at random. Doctors at Ittihad
> > Hospital reported several deaths and severe lung injuries from this
as-yet
> > unidentified asphyxiating chemical, totally distinct from tear gas.
> >
> > Among the victims was the grandmother of the Da'as family and the
> > 100-year-old father of noted Nablus attorney Mohammad Irshaid. Soldiers
had
> > entered the house at 2 a.m., smashing furniture and firing a canister of
the
> > dreaded green gas while preventing the family from leaving.
> >
> >
> > Simultaneously, the Israeli army targeted the hospitals. Army trucks
rammed
> > ambulances and blocked them from reaching the homes of those overcome by
the
> > gas. Soldiers entered the Ittihad Hospital in Nablus numerous times,
> > arresting the wounded and those waiting to give blood to family members.
> > EVEN THE OPERATING THEATRE WAS INVADED WHILE SURGEONS WERE OPERATING ON
> > PATIENTS.
> >
> > DOCTORS WERE BEATEN AND EQUIPMENT SMASHED. FAMILY MEMBERS WERE PREVENTED
> > FROM ENTERING THE HOSPITAL AND THE CARS OF DOCTORS AND NURSES WERE
DESTROYED
> > BY SOLDIERS.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Work Cited
> > > The world must know what kind of persecution anti-Zionist Jews are
> > facing in the Holy Land at the hands of the ORTHODOX ZIONISTS.
> > International human rights agencies and the UN are now being notified
> > about these anti-semitic incidents.
> >
> > At the end of the Sabbath, 4/1/2006 in the Rama neighborhood of Beit
> > Shemesh a group of some 200 hassidic Zionists broke into the synagogue
> > of the anti-Zionists and tore up the place!! They threw the holy books
> > on the floor, broke the windows and attacked the congregants, some 30
> > men in all. And this was all because the anti-Zionists protested
> > against the Zionist elections.
> >
> > In Jerusalem members of the Neturei Karta have been attacked and
> > threatened by ORTHODOX Zionists. Thousands of posters have been put
> > up, threatening phone calls, attempted physical attacks and social
> > ostracism. This was all because Neturei Karta has sought friendship
> > with the Palestinians and publicized the truth of Judaism against the
> > abomination of Zionism!
> >
> > The entire world must know what is going on in Palestine! The Arabs
> > and Christians must know the world over! Please publicize this
> > information everywhere!
> > > LeBor, Adam. Hitler's Secret Bankers: The Myth of Swiss
> > > Neutrality During the Holocaust. Secaucus, N.J.: Carol
> > > Publishing Group, 1997.
> > >
> > > USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum). Fifty
> > > Years Ago: Revolt Amid the Darkness: Days of Remembrance,
> > > April 18-25, 1993. Washington, D.C.: 1993
> > >
> > > USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum). Fifty
> > > Years Ago: Darkness Before Dawn: Days of Remembrance, April
> > > 3-10, 1994. Washington, D.C.: 1994
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
> > > David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment
> > > http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
> > > http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 7:24 pm
From: "princeandy"
"jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1144943030.573036.226890@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> If 4.5 million Jews survived it means that 5.5 million Jews didn't
> survive, since most
> census estimates put the number of Jews in Europe and the Soviet Union
> as about 10
> million, give or take up to 1 million either way since birth and other
> records in Poland and outside of Germany were not as exact as in
> Germany.
>
http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holox/d6mrd05.htm
http://www.heretical.com/mkilliam/wwii.html
http://www.aldeilis.net/zion/zionhol01.html
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html
http://www.savethemales.ca/000369.html
==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOW THE CONCEPT OF 'EVIL BRAHMIN' CAME ABOUT
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/aaaafd4f383a4df7
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 14 2006 2:18 am
From: usenet@mantra.comi4567 and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
harmony ji, you are absolutely right. Yes, treat
would be recommended immediately. However, the
scan results may be necessary to be able to write
the prescriptions, and for the patients' insurance
companies to be able to pay some of the cost.
Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
In article <Tmz%f.862$fG3.495@dukeread09>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
> Pls dr. jai maharaj ji, if you would bear with me here a little.
> would you really make them spend their secular money on scan when symptoms
> are so strong?
> would you not advise treatment without spending the money on scan?
>
>
> www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:
>
> > I would ask them if they had had a brain scan done.
> >
> > Jai Maharaj
> > http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> > http://www.mantra.com/jai
> > Om Shanti
> >
> > In article <rNe%f.804$fG3.410@dukeread09>,
> > "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
> > > what would you say to some hindu(s) who thinks christ
> > > is an avatar in the hindu tradition?
> > >
> > >
> > > and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:
> > >
> > > > The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
> > > >
> > > > "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so
> send
> > > > peace, but a sword.
> > > > "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and
> the
> > > > daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her
> mother in
> > > > law.
> > > > "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
> > > > - Matthew 10:34-36.
> > > >
> > > > Jai Maharaj
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> > > > http://www.mantra.com/jai
> > > > Om Shanti
> > > >
> > > > In article <R4a%f.756$fG3.333@dukeread09>,
> > > > "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
> > > > > for these ferangees to go to india and do this stuff!!!!
> > > > > i mean, how mean can the kirastani sobs get? there is no greater
> turn
> > > off
> > > > > than the sight of a monotheist propagandist presuming to be thinking
> > > s/he is
> > > > > doing any good for anybody.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:
> > > > >
> > > > > > How the concept of the evil brahmin came about
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.hvk.org/Publications/cihp/ch6.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Christianity and the Brahmins
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One of the standard church propaganda is that Hinduism is
> > > > > > nothing more than what they call Brahminism. Their
> > > > > > objective is to assert that the ills that exist in
> > > > > > Hinduism are a creation of the supposedly elitist
> > > > > > Brahmins to keep the people suppressed. (Perhaps the
> > > > > > church hierarchy is projecting its own method on others!)
> > > > > > They have tried to project that the Brahmins are evil and
> > > > > > it is in the interest of the rest of the society to get
> > > > > > out of their clutches. And the only way to do it would be
> > > > > > to leave Hinduism and join Christianity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The respect that Brahmins, in general, had (and still
> > > > > > have) in the Hindu society is a matter for a separate
> > > > > > subject. At the same time, there is no need to deny that
> > > > > > there have been some Brahmins who have not fulfilled
> > > > > > their dharma to the society. Suffice to say here that
> > > > > > most of the great reform movements have been led by
> > > > > > Brahmins. Not only in the spiritual field, but also in
> > > > > > the social field, Brahmins have been prominent amongst
> > > > > > the reformers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact that the initial approach of the Christian
> > > > > > missionaries was to convert the Brahmins exposes their
> > > > > > game plan. It has been the standard practice of
> > > > > > Christianity all over the world to first convert the
> > > > > > influential people, so that they become their ambassadors
> > > > > > to the rest of the society. The first successful
> > > > > > experience was in the case of the Roman Emperor,
> > > > > > Constantine. (The political objective of this Emperor in
> > > > > > adopting Christianity has been well documented.) With the
> > > > > > power of the state behind it, terrorising the people to
> > > > > > accept Christianity was an easy task. This was then used
> > > > > > to set up an organisation to control the spiritual lives
> > > > > > of the people, while helping the Emperor to control them
> > > > > > politically.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Brahmins turned out to be people with a different
> > > > > > mettle. Since they were not interested in temporal power,
> > > > > > they had no need to involve politics in spiritual
> > > > > > matters. They saw that there was a lack of spirituality
> > > > > > in the Christian ideology. Being highly respected, the
> > > > > > example of the Brahmins was emulated and the rest of the
> > > > > > community concluded that if Christianity has no merit for
> > > > > > the Brahmins, it has no merit for the rest of the
> > > > > > society.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many Christian researchers have documented the cause of
> > > > > > the antipathy of the missionaries towards the Brahmins.
> > > > > > Elizabeth Susan Alexander wrote,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "For the missionaries Brahmans (sic) had been in the
> > > > > > forefront of the staunch Hindu opposition to
> > > > > > missionary endeavours in Madras Presidency. They had
> > > > > > also been the vanguard of the Indian nationalist
> > > > > > movement that had taken alarmingly extremist turns."
> > > > > > (The Attitudes of British Protestant Missionaries
> > > > > > Towards Nationalism in India, Konark Publishers,
> > > > > > Delhi, 1994, p 67.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Only when they could not make a dent with the Brahmins
> > > > > > that the missionaries turned to the lower castes. The
> > > > > > conversions were obtained through inducements and not
> > > > > > through any spiritual conviction. They were somewhat
> > > > > > successful only when the temporal power was with the
> > > > > > invading Christians and the area was effectively a
> > > > > > colony. The missionaries could project themselves to be
> > > > > > the benefactors of the lower castes, and ensure that
> > > > > > government largesse would flow to them. That it did
> > > > > > nothing for them in terms of social upward mobility is
> > > > > > clear from the fact that there is a class of dalit
> > > > > > Christians.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A few of the Christian missionaries did have some success
> > > > > > with the Brahmins. But, the change took place for secular
> > > > > > reasons. This was also the experience in Europe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As Judaism was strongly fought and persecuted (by the
> > > > > > Roman Catholic Church) in a large part of Europe, many
> > > > > > Jews tried to defend themselves by embracing the
> > > > > > religion of the country where they lived, and in this
> > > > > > way to keep their property and prosper in business.
> > > > > > (Jorge de Abreu Noronha, A New Dimension to the
> > > > > > Inquisition, Goa Today, Dec 94.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was only when a Brahmin converted to Christianity,
> > > > > > would he be employed in the government services. It was
> > > > > > only when a member of the higher caste converted to
> > > > > > Christianity, would he be permitted to continue with his
> > > > > > profitable economic activity. But the success rate in
> > > > > > such cases was small, and the rest of the community did
> > > > > > not emulate their example. If anything, the converts were
> > > > > > treated as outcastes at the social level, and endured
> > > > > > more than accepted.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of the Christian missionaries noticed that the whole
> > > > > > community held the Brahmins in high esteem in spiritual
> > > > > > matters. So they decided to pretend to be Brahmins to
> > > > > > attract the people to come to them. The classic example
> > > > > > was that of Robert de Nobili, a Jesuit from France, who
> > > > > > came to India in the early 17th century. He adopted the
> > > > > > saffron robe, started to live in a hut, squatted on the
> > > > > > floor for conducting his discourses, became a vegetarian
> > > > > > and gave up liquor, projected that he was a Brahmin from
> > > > > > Rome and that the Bible was one of the lost vedas, and
> > > > > > generally tried to pass himself as another Hindu sanyasi.
> > > > > > He was successful, and many Hindus came to him for
> > > > > > spiritual reasons.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, de Nobili's objective was not to merge himself with
> > > > > > the Hindu culture or civilisation. M N Pearson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The career of the well-born Italian Jesuit Roberto de
> > > > > > Nobili seems to illustrate this change, this decline
> > > > > > in cold hard certainty. He is well known for trying to
> > > > > > convert Brahmins by using their own arguments. To this
> > > > > > end he studied Sanskrit texts, and dressed as a
> > > > > > Brahmin. While this may be admirable, as an example of
> > > > > > tolerance and open inquiry, it should be remembered
> > > > > > first that de Nobili's aim was still, and always, to
> > > > > > make converts, and second that his methods got him
> > > > > > into hot water with his superiors. (The Portuguese in
> > > > > > India, Orient Longman, Hyderabad, 1990, p 123.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The same was also the conclusion arrived at by Abbe
> > > > > > Dubois, whom we have encountered earlier. The following
> > > > > > comment is relevant:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (T)he chief cause (of Abbe Dubois' disillusionment
> > > > > > with the lack of success of his missionary effort)
> > > > > > undoubtedly was the invincible barrier of what we may
> > > > > > call nowadays intellectual Hinduism, but which the
> > > > > > Abbe called Brahmanical prejudice. He refers
> > > > > > regretfully to the collapse of the Church, with its
> > > > > > hundreds of thousands of converts, many of them of
> > > > > > high caste, established by the Jesuits Beschi and de
> > > > > > Nobili in Madura; but at the same time he made no
> > > > > > concealment of the real causes of their failure. 'The
> > > > > > Hindus soon found that those missionaries whom their
> > > > > > Colour, their talents, and other qualities had induced
> > > > > > them to regard as such extraordinary beings, as men
> > > > > > coming from another world, were in fact nothing else
> > > > > > but disguised Feringhis (Europeans), and that their
> > > > > > country, their religion, and original education were
> > > > > > the same as those of the evil, the contemptible
> > > > > > Feringhis who had of late invaded their country. This
> > > > > > event proved the last blow to the interests of the
> > > > > > Christian religion. No more conversions were made.
> > > > > > Apostasy became almost general in several quarters,
> > > > > > and Christianity became more and more an object of
> > > > > > contempt and aversion in proportion as European
> > > > > > manners became better known to the Hindus.' (Editor's
> > > > > > Introduction, Hindu Manners, Customs and Ceremonies,
> > > > > > Abbe Dubois, Translated and Edited by Henry K
> > > > > > Beauchamp, Rupa & Co., New Delhi, 1994, p xxvii.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In spite of being exposed for the fraud that he was, de
> > > > > > Nobili held as an icon of the so-called inculturation
> > > > > > programme of the Christian churches. An English current
> > > > > > affairs magazine, The Week (Oct 20, 1996), came out with
> > > > > > a cover story on the subject of what are called Roman
> > > > > > Catholic Ashrams. I corresponded with one of the
> > > > > > proponent of the programme, a Spaniard priest who has
> > > > > > adopted Shilananda as his name, and asked him if he
> > > > > > thought that there is salvation outside Christianity. In
> > > > > > reply I was told that I should repent and believe in
> > > > > > Christ. The present practitioners of inculturation are
> > > > > > carrying forward the tradition set by de Nobili of
> > > > > > pretending to be a Brahmin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While in a rural setting one sees Roman Catholic Ashrams,
> > > > > > in urban areas Christianity is conducted in pomp and
> > > > > > style. In The Week article, a priest in Mumbai, Fr Myron
> > > > > > Pereira, is quoted as saying "(The Ashram) makes sense
> > > > > > where Fr Shilananda lives, but not in Mumbai where I
> > > > > > live. If all I Catholic priests were to adopt the ashram
> > > > > > life-style, it would pose practical and emotional
> > > > > > problems in big cities." (Emphasis added) The objective
> > > > > > of the Roman Catholic Ashrams is to try and fool the
> > > > > > simple rural folks. This Ashram programme will not
> > > > > > succeed in urban areas where people are more aware of
> > > > > > what Christianity is all about. In his objection to
> > > > > > conversions of the poor people, Mahatma Gandhi challenged
> > > > > > the missionaries to convert him first. Of course, they
> > > > > > knew that Gandhiji had made a detailed study of
> > > > > > Christianity and there was no possibility that he could
> > > > > > be sold the system. Similar was the case with the
> > > > > > Brahmins in the past.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is very unfortunate that the whole concept of the evil
> > > > > > Brahmin, propagated by the Christian missionaries for
> > > > > > their own sinister objective, is being authenticated by
> > > > > > the so-called intellectuals in this country. Great Hindu
> > > > > > reformers, including Swami Vivekanand and Mahatma Gandhi,
> > > > > > have recognised the role of the Brahmins in the
> > > > > > preservation and propagation of the Hindu culture. Some
> > > > > > of the greatest of the Hindu reformers have been, and
> > > > > > are, Brahmins. Their contribution to the society in all
> > > > > > fields is legendary.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As said earlier, it is not our contention that the Hindu
> > > > > > society has no faults. Blame for this state of affairs
> > > > > > has to be with some Brahmins. But to damn the whole class
> > > > > > is doing grave injustice. The missionaries had to project
> > > > > > the Brahmins as evil because they were the ones who were
> > > > > > coming in the way of their proselytisation programme.
> > > > > > Today, it suits certain people to damn the community for
> > > > > > their petty political games. But, if they were truly
> > > > > > evil, would not there have been large conversions of the
> > > > > > backward castes to both Christianity and Islam? After
> > > > > > all, the clergy of both these systems had the power of
> > > > > > the state in many places in India. If the Brahmins were
> > > > > > the cause of the miseries faced by the lower castes, the
> > > > > > latter would have willingly adopted another system to
> > > > > > escape the 'tyranny'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > End of forwarded message from:
> > > > > > http://www.hvk.org/Publications/cihp/ch6.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jai Maharaj
> > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> > > > > > http://www.mantra.com/jai
> > > > > > Om Shanti
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hindu Holocaust Museum
> > > > > > http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
> > > > > > http://www.hindu.org
> > > > > > http://www.hindunet.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The truth about Islam and Muslims
> > > > > > http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
> > > > > educational
> > > > > > purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this
> post
> > > may
> > > > > not
> > > > > > have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the
> opinion of
> > > the
> > > > > > poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the
> exemption
> > > for
> > > > > > fair use of copyrighted works.
> > > > > > o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be
> read,
> > > > > > considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal
> name,
> > > > > current
> > > > > > e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
> > > > > > o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by
> > > others
> > > > > are
> > > > > > not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read
> the
> > > > > article.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the
> use
> > > of
> > > > > > which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the
> > > copyright
> > > > > > owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance
> the
> > > > > > understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
> > > > > > democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
> > > believed
> > > > > > that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted
> material as
> > > > > > provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance
> > > with
> > > > > Title
> > > > > > 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed
> > > without
> > > > > > profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving
> the
> > > > > included
> > > > > > information for research, comment, discussion and educational
> purposes
> > > by
> > > > > > subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
> > > > > information
> > > > > > go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
> > > > > > If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for
> purposes
> > > of
> > > > > > your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission
> from
> > > the
> > > > > > copyright owner.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Independence of Chechnya in the Long Run
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fecb303268ff2ba9
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 7:22 pm
From: vkarlamov@yahoo.com
mtodorov_69@yahoo.com wrote:
> What can be observed is that (ironically speaking) Chechen people
> may not be quite too happy to live under the rule of Russians, who
> have done them so much good this far.
>
> Frankly, the "puppet" pro-Russian government in Chechnya may not
> even necessary be treacherous, but merely wise seeing no
> alternative to a regime that has reportedly killed 1 in 5 Chechnyans,
> raped countless women, and destroyed the cities.
>
> So, even this group, intented as a place where Chechen could speak
> out - is failed. Over-spammed and ridiculed. Chechnyans are silent.
> Pro-islamic forces as the lead of rebellion may be just what the
> Russians want, giving them aliby to deal with the danger that has
> caused 911.
>
> Since it is not certain that Russians would not kill 4 in 5 Chechnians,
> or all 5, Chechen people are now subdued under Russian boot that still
> seems acceptable to us due to media and public relations.
>
> According to rule of self-determination of nations, and judged by the
> need for freedom from oppression, Chechnyans should be liberated.
> But we live in the world dominated by (nuclear) force and profit, which
> is not so good friend of justice.
>
True. It is hate, power and profit that have resulted in the greatest
disasters of the 20th century, be it Turkish genocide agianst
Armenians; American nuclear Holocaust against Japanese; German and
Croat Holocaust against Jews, Serbs and Gypsies in 1940s; Croat
genocide against Serbs in 1990s; KLA/NATO genocide against Serbs,
Gypsies. Macedonians and Jew in 1999-2000s; American rape of Iraq in
2003-present; etc. Curiously, the perpetrators all seem to be NATO
countires.
>
> Brainwashed by newsflashes, we direct our attention to next big
> disaster, or to Paris Hilton's new haircut, forgetting millions of
> victims.
>
> Whatever we saw, we will also reap.
>
Sort of like "I came, I saw, I conquered"?
>
> Though Chechnyans are Muslims, I will quote Christian Bible in this
> moment:
>
> "Whoever shuts his ears from the cry of the oppressed,
> he will cry too and no one will listen."
>
> Great truth that will make us wonder someday why this evil or that
> evil is happening to us. But the answer is simple: we looked the other
> way when it was happening to our neighbor.
>
> Mirsad Todorovac
> Zagreb, Croatia
> Apr/11/2006
>
You are from Croatia? Great! Then you must be an expert on genocides.
Has your grandpa told you what was his personal favorite way to
exterminate Jews, Gypsies and Serbs in Nazi Croatia?
Another question. After the genocides of 1940s and 1990s, there are
virtually no Jews left alive in Croatia. Are all the Serbs gone as well
or do you guys need another round of genocides before you can declare
Croatia truly "serb-frei" (serb-free)?
Also, I hear some top Croat leaders are finally standing trial at the
Hague Tribunal for the Crimes Against Humanity for their role in the
horrible Croat anti-Serb genocide in Krajina in mid-90s. What are their
names and their alleged roles in this genocide? Any chance that the
rest of Croat leaders will join them in the Hague soon?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE PROBLEMS WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE US
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b462f77d61ef1898
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 7:22 pm
From: Scott en Aztlán
On 13 Apr 2006 08:29:06 -0700, cobbcity@snet.net wrote:
>It is IMPOSSIBLE for the US to even begin to deport the illegal aliens
>so we need to drop that off the table. We don't have the money or
>resouces to do it, nor can our court system handle calling them all
>"fellons" and putting them on trial. We don't have enough courts for
>the cases we have now!
Well, SOMETHING sure has struck a nerve with all these wetbacks - not
only are the ones who are already here risking everything to protest
publicly, but all the rest are trying their damndest to sneak in NOW
so they'll have a shot at getting into the guest worker program.
--
Official Member of the Rebate Rage Club
==============================================================================
TOPIC: CONGRATULATIONS, IRAN !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ad7ddbf0b7bcdd1a
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 13 2006 7:31 pm
From: "Maipaikai"
The US wanted IRANIAN oil badly. Bad news, is that, unlike IRAQ, IRAN is
too strong a candidate for a US ground invasion. Added to this, IRAN may be
on the verge of acquiring a few Nuclear Bombs which makes it impossible for
the US to nuke, unless, the US is ready to sacrifice 200,000 US troops in
Iraq. In short, the US is fucked this time.!
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:BFa%f.2513$2_.581@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> Please explain how you believe the USA is plundering Iranian or any other
> nations oil?
>
> "Maipaikai" <maipaikai@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e1j6jo$o53$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> > ENRICHED URANIUM WILL MAKE YOUR COUNTRY SAFER AND STRONGER AND BRING
> > PEACE
> > TO THE MIDDLE EAST. AMERICA CANNOT INVADE AND PLUNDER YOUR OIL RESOURCES
> > ANYMORE.
> >
> >
>
>
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