soc.culture.usa
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:
* MURDER OF RACHEL CORRIE, AN AMERICAN HEROINE - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/230b20b958a3d3ba
* Whooooooooooooooooooooo-hoooooooooooooooooooooo !!!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bbf453dcdcfdb5ce
* YA OPERAN EN LA CAPITAL MEXICANA 10 CENTROS OPERATIVOS BOLIVARIANOS - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2833ae09726c2a0b
* $10,000 Reward for Thai Air Force Commander Akkavibul - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/416ef42277b367dc
* U.K. HINDUS BEST AT MONEY MATTERS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/60227a80906a01ec
* Ga. Poised to Mandate Bible Study in Public Schools - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6749ea0a5de614fa
* Bangla Terrorist Groups Involved In Varanasi Bomb Blats - 2 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee4fc3538a948b81
* STUDY TALMUD WHILE MASTURBATING - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ed4860965fd8b849
* TALMUD: NO ERECTION ALLOWED - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c83fd88832f6de4b
* talmud: masturbate on holohoax - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f2923bad9ecde52
* WITH FRIENDS LIKE KIKES, AMERICA NEEDS NO ENEMIES! - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cd9b460263d94174
* NO ERECTION ALLOWED: TALMUD - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/385775098c0645e5
* DO NOT MESS WITH IRAN, KIKE! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c6d79a4043be4c6e
* ETHNIC CLEANSING PARTY OF KIKELAND - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/0eaa2aaa60fc5bfa
* MURDERING FOR FUN - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cb5ff12b53335f74
==============================================================================
TOPIC: MURDER OF RACHEL CORRIE, AN AMERICAN HEROINE
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/230b20b958a3d3ba
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 11:35 pm
From: AnonMoos
"Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com> wrote:
>> racist hate-bigots!
> WTF is a "hate-bigot"? A person who hates bigots?
Yeah, just like a redneck is someone who necks Reds! Go away, bigot-boy...
--
المتبرجة خير
من الإرهابي
المنتحر
Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 11:43 pm
From: AnonMoos
Daniel Bernard <bad@bad.one> wrote:
>On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:28:46 +1200, "Tilly" <TillyGr@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Daniel Bernard wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:27:05 +1200, "Tilly" <TillyGr@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes that was all very interesting but everyone makes incorrect posts,
>>> either intentionally or unintentionally, at one time or another.
>> Alex's are all intentional.
> Maybe he is confused or just being obstinate.
No excuse is too lame for Danny to try to use to justify the nonsense
spewed by his friends, the racist hate-bigots!
> People do dig their heels in rather than admit they are wrong.
Yeah, StriderCabal has a consistent problem with ever admitting that
he's wrong in the slightest degree, no matter how blatantly crudely
wrong his mistake is, or even if the error is a hightly tangential or
trivial one which doesn't really affect his main point. But I'm
afraid that this "infallibility complex" is really part of the
problem, not any kind of valid excuse for anything. As I've told
StriderCabal several times, even the Pope only claims infallibility
for his most solemn "ex cathedra" pronouncements, while Seredin
claims infallibility for any random nonsense that he puts in a Usenet
message!
--
المتبرجة خير
من الإرهابي
المنتحر
Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 2:37 pm
From: "Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com>
"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:4435EC11.4AFB8A52@io.com...
> "Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> racist hate-bigots!
>
>> WTF is a "hate-bigot"? A person who hates bigots?
>
> Yeah, just like a redneck is someone who necks Reds! Go away,
> bigot-boy...
Fuck off, swamp hun.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Whooooooooooooooooooooo-hoooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/bbf453dcdcfdb5ce
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:32 pm
From: "satan oscillate my metallic sonatas™ ♥"
Kentucky Fried Gerbilfrickers, anyone ?!?!?
http://www.bw.lehigh.edu/story.asp?ID=19708
HOOROO
UNCLE WALLY
---0---
Russian military stalls on reports Ukraine sold warheads to Iran
12:25 | 03/ 04/ 2006
MOSCOW, April 3 (RIA Novosti) - The chief of Russia's General Staff
said Monday he could neither confirm nor deny reports that Ukraine had
sold 250 nuclear warheads to Iran.
"Russia's General Staff has no information about whether Ukraine has
given 250 nuclear warheads to Iran or not," General Yury Baluyevsky,
also deputy defense minister, said in response to an article in Novaya
Gazeta newspaper Monday. "I do not comment on unsubstantiated reports."
The newspaper said that Ukraine had failed to return 250 warheads to
Russia in the 1990s when the former Soviet republic declared itself a
nuclear-free zone. The paper suggested the warheads could have been
sold to a third country, including Iran.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: YA OPERAN EN LA CAPITAL MEXICANA 10 CENTROS OPERATIVOS BOLIVARIANOS
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2833ae09726c2a0b
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:32 pm
From: Seneca
Gracias a Jesus por los Bolivarianos, gracias por la sbuenas noticias.
Viva Hugo Chavez!
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 08:56:11 -0700, PM <pedro1940@progression.net> wrote:
> Objet:
> Date: 2 avril, 2006 00:24
>
> YA OPERAN EN LA CAPITAL MEXICANA 10 CENTROS OPERATIVOS BOLIVARIANOS
> Por Francisco Reséndiz - La Cronica - México D.F.
>
> Anochece en Ciudad Universitaria. Falta una semana para que inicien las
> clases... pero hay mucho movimiento. En Economía, Filosofía y Ciencias
> Políticas grupos de estudiantes, apoyados por agentes venezolanos, se
> apresuran a imprimir propaganda bolivariana pro Andrés Manuel López
> Obrador
> que repartirán de inmediato en pueblos y comunidades de Oaxaca, Morelos y
> Guerrero.
>
> La lluvia, extraña en febrero, y el frío, me hacen recordar que durante
> los
> últimos tres meses he participado en uno de los círculos bolivarianos que
> reciben apoyo económico, asesoría logística e instrucción ideológica de
> activistas capacitados por el gobierno de Venezuela: El José Revueltas.
>
> Estos meses integré una agenda que ubica a líderes de los grupos
> bolivarianos, sus direcciones particulares y laborales. Además, de
> acuerdo
> con integrantes de sus propias grupaciones e información de inteligencia
> mexicana y venezolana se configuró su perfil, muchos vinculados a
> expresiones del EPR y el ERPI.
>
> La propaganda son carteles que rezan "bolivarianos van por Andrés Manuel
> López Obrador"; algunos volantes con una fotografía del tabasqueño tomada
> durante el juicio que se llevó a cabo en la Cámara de Diputados reza:
> "por
> la unidad de América Latina AMLO", y unos folletos que hablan de la
> necesidad de unión de los países latinos proclama: "El Eje Caracas-La
> Habana-México con López Obrador".
>
> Los estudiantes e integrantes de organizaciones civiles reparten los
> volantes, folletos, en las colonias pobres de diversas zonas
> metropolitanas,
> principalmente la de la Cuidad de México, y en poblaciones o comunidades
> pequeñas de diversos estados cuando realizan acciones comunitarias como
> consultas médicas, cortes de cabello, así como de alfabetización.
>
> Cuando pregunto a los estudiantes sobre la elección presidencial dicen
> con
> desgano que López Obrador y el PRD "son la única forma de impedir el
> expansionismo del imperio stadunidense"; no se ven convencidos pero
> mantienen estrechos vínculos con las Redes Ciudadanas que empujan la
> candidatura presidencial perredista.
>
> Supe que tenían acercamientos con líderes del PRD capitalino, pero no
> alcancé a conocer sus nombres, pero los propios activistas me comentaban
> que
> no eran bien recibidos a pesar de que daban su apoyo a López Obrador.
> "No nos querían cerca de ellos pero agradecían el trabajo comunitario que
> hacemos para empujar a su candidato", me dijo un día uno de los líderes
> estudiantiles.
>
> Los grupos bolivarianos pro López Obrador se organizan en las facultades
> de
> Filosofía y Letras, Economía, Trabajo Social y Ciencias Políticas y en
> los
> campus Aragón, Acatlán y Cuautitlán de la UNAM, así como en
> instalaciones de
> las universidades de Chapingo, de la Ciudad de México, UAM-Iztapalapa,
> Benito Juárez de Oaxaca y la UAEM y en diversas casas particulares.
>
> Ayer, al concluir este reportaje, recibí un correo electrónico a través
> de
> nacional@cronica.com.mx en el que se dice:
>
> "Sé de primera mano que al eterno sindicalista de la UAM, Edur Velasco,
> los
> venezolanos le pagaron boleto de avión y estancia en Caracas para que
> estuviera presente en la marcha ontra el gobierno mexicano (la misma a la
> que asistieron, "a título personal", dos legisladores perredistas)".
>
> En fin, el 23 de febrero, viernes, fue la última vez que asistí a una de
> sus
> reuniones en la Facultad de Filosofía, había 15 activistas. La discusión,
> como todas, siempre desordenada, partió del análisis político coyuntural
> que
> detonó el caso Mario Marín, hablaron del ataque a Lydia Cacho y de la
> necesidad de impulsar un mayor apoyo a la mujer.
>
> Entonces alguien fue al fondo del cubículo y tomó un ejemplar maltratado
> del
> "Proyecto Alternativo de Nación" e iniciaron una rigurosa comparación con
> los proyectos de Felipe Calderón y de Roberto Madrazo en el sentido
> estricto
> de igualdad de género.
>
> Su forma de vestir igual a la de cualquier chico clasemediero de la
> Ciudad
> de México. Usan pantalones de mezclilla y camisas de algodón o franela,
> chamarras de piel o igual de mezclilla.
>
> Sentada en una mesa del cubículo, Laura "N" hablaba casi a gritos,
> discernía
> y los demás, algunos sentados en bancas y otros en el piso, no hablaban
> de
> López Obrador ni de Madrazo ni de Calderón pero insistían en que "se debe
> lograr la unidad latinoamericana".
>
> Soy el más viejo de mi círculo. Los primeros encuentros fueron en casas
> de
> activistas y líderes que, según informes de inteligencia, están
> vinculados
> al EPR y las FARC-EP; luego nos reunimos en cubículos de círculos
> bolivarianos, tanto en la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras como en la de
> Ciencias Políticas y Sociales.
>
> Ese viernes acompañé a uno de los líderes, sólo sé que se llama
> "Fernando".
> Es un chico simpático, siempre con boina, barba desarreglada, fachoso y
> sucio. Usa camisas de algodón con imágenes del Che, de Cristo o de
> Marcos.
> Esperamos a un costado de un puesto de dulces a las afueras de la
> Facultad
> de Filosofía.
>
> En un rato llega un hombre con acento sudamericano, luego Fernando me
> diría
> que es un estudiante venezolano de la Facultad de Medicina, quizá me
> mintió.
> Se alejan un poco de mí. Le da un pequeño paquete forrado de papel
> periódico. Son 25 mil pesos. Un rato después el propio activista me diría
> que se trata de una gente de toda la confianza del ex embajador Vladimir
> Villegas.
>
> El dinero lo emplea de inmediato. No me dice nada. Vamos aprisa a
> Copilco y
> compramos cigarros, cervezas y comida. Regresamos al cubículo de la
> Facultad
> y al resto del grupo les rinde cuentas... 24 mil 500 pesos "para las
> actividades de lo que resta de febrero".
>
> Hay otros grupos bolivarianos, con apoyo venezolano, que realizan
> actividades políticas en oficinas ubicadas en Jalapa 213, Colonia Roma,
> instalaciones del Movimiento Bolivariano de los pueblos que comparten con
> organizaciones de izquierda como el Frente del Pueblo y la Unión de
> Vecinos
> y Damnificados 19 de Septiembre.
>
> En el parque de Santa María la Ribera se juntan los que pertenecen al
> Movimiento Mexicano Juarista Bolivariano de Cuauhtémoc Amezcua Dromundo,
> el
> cual cuenta con instalaciones en Insurgentes Sur 216, colonia Roma, que
> comparte con la AC "Sociedad Mexicana de Estudios Legislativos".
>
> Las casas de los principales líderes bolivarianos en México se convierten
> como centros logísticos y se ubican principalmente en colonias de la zona
> metropolitana de la Ciudad de México como Valle de Aragón, Polígonos II,
> además de colonias céntricas como Tlatelolco, Roma, y del oriente del DF
> como Iztapalapa.
> Todas las direcciones están confirmadas y algunas se guardarán como
> medida
> de seguridad.
>
> LA AGENDA Y LOS LÍDERES.
>
>
> El Movimiento Bolivariano de los Pueblos
> (Movimiento de Lucha Popular), es liderado por Ángel Fermín García Luna y
> Margarita Irasema Villanueva Gallegos. Él es empleado en el Hospital 1 de
> Octubre. Mantiene un discurso radical que pugna por la instauración del
> socialismo como único instrumento de cambio de poderes.
>
> Se le vincula con Efrén Cortés Chávez y Erika Zamora Pardo, ex
> integrantes
> del Ejército Revolucionario del Pueblo Insurgente; además, con otros
> activistas de izquierda y pro PRD. Es integrante de la Promotora por la
> Unidad Nacional contra el Neoliberalismo.
>
> Su esposa, Margarita Irasema, se desempeñaba hasta agosto del año pasado
> como gestora de vivienda en Ecatepec y forma parte del Frente Sindical
> Campesino, Indígena, Social y Popular y Movimiento Bolivariano de los
> Pueblos.
> Es una mujer que considera la vía armada como único recursos "para
> derrocar
> al imperialismo y consolidar el comunismo". En Guerrero se le relaciona
> con
> el abogado defensor de integrantes del ERPI, Félix Rodríguez Navarrete y
> también se le relaciona con integrantes del Comité Digna Ochoa, la
> Coordinadora Nacional por la Libertad de Presos Políticos y de
> Conciencia.
>
> Otro integrante de esta organización es Alejandro de Jesús Veras Orozco,
> dirigente del Frente del Pueblo e importante activista del Movimiento
> Urbano
> Popular. Empuja en la ciudad de México al Movimiento Bolivariano de los
> Pueblos.
>
> El personaje con mayor presencia pública es Cuauhtémoc Amezcua Dromundo,
> dirigente del Movimiento Mexicano Juarista Bolivariano, quien fue
> diputado
> federal por el PPS y es presidente de la APN "Nueva Democracia".
>
> Impulsa el Proyecto Alternativo de Nación que promueve el Frente Sindical
> Campesino, Indígena, Social y Popular y la Promotora por la Unidad
> Nacional
> contra el Neoliberalismo. Es escritor, impulsor del Movimiento de
> Solidaridad con Cuba, Comité Mexicano contra el ALCA, investigador de la
> UAM.
>
> Respecto a la Coordinadora Continental Bolivariana Capítulo México
> (Núcleo
> Mexicano de Apoyo a las Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de
> Colombia-Ejército
> del Pueblo), ésta concentra su principal centro de acción en la UNAM,
> donde
> se relacionó con el CGH.
>
> Los activistas Luisa Malinalli Rebollar Flores, Desireé Robledo Torrano,
> Sonia Moret Álvarez, Arlene Serna Espadas, Fernando "N", Edgardo "N",
> Estela
> "N" y Berenice "N" se ubican como los principales promotores de las
> FARC-EP
> en México, participando en diversos foros sociales donde expenden
> productos
> alusivos a las FARC-Mantienen relación estrecha con el Movimiento
> Mexicano
> de Solidaridad con Cuba, el Frente de Lucha Estudiantil Juan Antonio
> Mella y
> el Partido Revolucionario de los Trabajadores. Esta agrupación tiene su
> domicilio en
> Xola 181-A, colonia Álamos, inmueble propiedad del PRT, donde convergen
> organizaciones como la Coordinadora Continental Bolivariana, Convergencia
> Socialista y los Talleres Gráficos del FMLN.
> El proyecto bolivariano y la integración del eje Caracas-la
> Habana-México lo
> tienen en la mente. Van y ofrecen consultas médicas, enseñan a la gente a
> leer y escribir, se hacen sus amigos. Tienen claro su único objetivo y
> para
> alcanzarlo, dicen "vamos a empujar a López Obrador".
>
> Las direcciones
> Informes de inteligencia de México y Venezuela revelan que los centros de
> reunión bolivarianos se localizan en los siguientes puntos del DF y zona
> metropolitana:
> w Jalapa 213, colonia Roma
> w Insurgentes Sur 216
> w Santa María la Ribera 27
> w Xola 181-A, colonia Álamos
> w Monterrey 15, colonia Roma
> w Mina 62, colonia Barrio San Miguel, Iztapalapa
> w Pejelagarto Manzana 17 lote 21, fraccionamiento PROFEOEC Polígono II
> w Calle del Pozo 8, colonia Santa Cruz, Toluca
>
> En Jalisco
> w Cipriano Campos 1263, colonia Villas del Nilo
> w Av. Constituyente 1094, Zapopan
> w Av. Hidalgo 1730, Guadalajara
>
> En Oaxaca
> w En el interior del edificio de la Sección XXI del Sindicato Nacional de
> Trabajadores de la Educación, sito Armenta y López 221, Centro
> w Francisco Villa 207-A, colonia Reforma Agraria
> Quieren en Venezuela venir como observadores
>
> [ José Alejandro Sánchez ]
>
> William Lara, brazo derecho del presidente de Venezuela, Hugo Chávez,
> manifestó su interés de ser observador del proceso electoral mexicano
> para
> renovar Presidente el 2 de julio próximo.
>
> Por teléfono se le preguntaba a Lara su opinión sobre la investigación
> que
> demuestra que células chavistas apoyan aquí un eje Caracas-La
> Habana-México,
> cuando expresó que les gustaría estar en el país el día de las
> elecciones.
>
> "Nosotros apostamos a que el proceso de campaña mexicano y las
> elecciones se
> realicen en un clima cívico y de paz como es característica de la
> conducta
> colectiva del pueblo mexicano, arraigada profundamente en la democracia.
> De
> ninguna manera habrá injerencia de Venezuela, pero si somos invitados
> como
> observadores ahí estaremos", dijo.
>
> Y agregó: "Invitados como Movimiento Quinta República (partido que llevó
> a
> Chávez al poder) ahí estaremos. Y si no, esperaremos las elecciones por
> transmisión radial y televisión".
>
> William Lara, quien además ha sido coordinador de los Círculos
> Bolivarianos
> en Venezuela, dijo que aún no hay invitación formal pero que sí "alguna
> fuerza política" los llega a invitar, responderán puntualmente .
>
> Sobre la participación activa del ex embajador Vladimir Villegas a
> reuniones
> que sostuvo con universitarios en distintas casas de estudios, como la
> UNAM,
> argumentó que su correligionario se acercó a divulgar propaganda política
> como una manera de dar a conocer el proyecto venezolano.
>
> "No se interviene en política interna. Cuando el embajador divulgó la
> información no hace otra cosa que dar a conocer nuestro proyecto. Por eso
> consideramos que la información publicada en Crónica corresponde a una
> campaña estadunidense que busca aislar a Venezuela", aseguró.
>
> Y señaló que el acercamiento de su partido con legisladores del PRD no
> significa que Venezuela esté interesado en que una fuerza política de
> izquierda asuma el poder como sucedió en Brasil, Argentina y
> recientemente
> Bolivia, con cuyos países Hugo Chávez tiene proyectos de inversión.
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> COORDINADORA CONTINENTAL BOLIVARIANA CAPITULOS EN MEXICO
> Guerrero
> Oaxaca
> Baja California
> Chiapas
> Chihuahua
> Coahuila
> Colima
> Distrito Federal
> Hidalgo
> Puebla
> Veracruz
> Estado de México
>
> ---------------------------------
> ORGANIZACIONES CIVILES FINANCIADAS POR VENEZUELA
>
> ---------------------------------
> *Movimiento Mexicano Juarista Bolivariano
> *Movimiento Bolivariano de los Pueblos
> *Núcleo Mexicano de Apoyo a las FARC-EP
> *Coordinadora Nacional de Trabajadores de la Educación
> *Unión de Trabajadores de la Industria Petrolera
> *Movimiento Sindicalismo Revolucionario
> *Movimiento de Izquierda Social
> *Movimiento Nacional de la Juventud Mexicana
> *Centro de Estudios Sociales
> *Estudiantes de la Facultad de Ciencias Políticas de la UNAM
> *Consejo Latinoamericano de Artes Visuales
> *Sociedad Mexicana de Autores de Artes Plásticas *Coordinadora
> Continental
> Bolivariana
> *Sindicato de Trabajadores Académicos de la Universidad de Guadalajara
> *Asociación por la Unidad Nuestra América de México
> *Movimiento Pueblo Mexicano
> *Comité Amigos de Puerto Rico
> *Círculo bolivariano Ricardo Flores Magón
> *Círculo bolivariano José Revueltas
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> GRUPOS VIOLENTOS CON VINCULOS A "CELULAS BOLIVARIANAS"
>
> * Ejército de Ajusticiamiento Genaro Vázquez
> * Ejército Revolucionario Insurgente Popular
> * Ejército Clandestino Indígena de Liberación Nacional
> * Ejército Indígena Revolucionario de Liberación Nacional
> * Fuerzas Armadas Clandestinas de Liberación Nacional
> * Movimiento Insurgente del Sureste y el Movimiento Veracruzano de
> Liberación
> * Con el Ejército Popular Revolucionario y su escisión Ejército
> Revolucionario del Pueblo Insurgente sólo han conseguido el apoyo de
> grupos
> que, aunque pequeños, "tienen significativa influencia" hacia su
> interior.
>
> LA NUEVA CUBA
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Solo la opresión debe temer al pleno ejercicio de la libertad. Libertad
> es
> el derecho que todo hombre tiene a ser honrado, y a pensar y a hablar sin
> hipocresía. Un hombre que oculta lo que piensa, o no se atreve a decir lo
> que piensa, no es un hombre honrado. Un hombre que obedece a un mal
> gobierno, sin trabajar para que el gobierno sea bueno, no es un hombre
> honrado.
>
> José Martí
>
> NetforCuba.org athorize the reproduction and distribution of this E-Mail
> as
> long as the source is credited. /
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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
==============================================================================
TOPIC: $10,000 Reward for Thai Air Force Commander Akkavibul
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/416ef42277b367dc
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 4 2006 3:13 pm
From: Anonymous
Reward paid on conviction of Suchart and Yuwadee Akkavibul.
http://thailand.ahrchk.net/mainfile.php/general/29/
http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2004/886/
UPDATE (Thailand): Case of the killing of a migrant worker dragged on
by apparent delay of trial; Public prosecutor must speed up the case
UPDATE ON URGENT APPEAL UPDATE ON URGENT APPEAL UPDATE ON URGENT
APPEAL
ASIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION - URGENT APPEALS PROGRAMME
Update on Urgent Appeal
10 December 2004
[RE: UA-91-2004: THAILAND: Transparency in trial of the killers of a
migrant worker demanded on 23 July 2004]
UP-80-2004: THAILAND: Case of the killing of a migrant worker dragged
on by apparent delay of trial; Public prosecutor must speed up the
case
THAILAND: Impunity; violence against women; rule of law
Dear friends,
The Asian Human Rights Commission is seriously concerned by the
apparent delay of a trial of Ma Suu, a Burmese migrant worker who died
after being beaten and set on fire by her employers, Suchart and
Yuwadee Akkavibul in July 2002. The accused Thai airforce officer and
his wife had escaped justice for two years, because of the officer's
influence and position of authority. (See further: UA-91-2004)
According to the information we have received, hearings were held to
take evidence two times on July 26 and August 4 2004. After hearing a
number of witnesses and obtaining strong evidence, the public
prosecutor charged the accused, Suchart and Yuwadee, with murder,
confinement and harbouring an illegal alien, and the case went to the
full court on November 1, 2004 (Black No. 1089/2547 at Uthaithanee
Provincial Court).
However, the court delayed the trial by setting the next hearing in
January 2006 saying that the court needed to handle pending cases
before new ones, under a new procedure. Local human rights groups say
that some new cases will be delayed for about three or four years
under these circumstances. Ma Suu's lawyer worries that the case will
be weakened by this delay as it is not certain that witnesses will be
available at the convenience of the court over a year from now.
The AHRC calls for your urgent intervention into this matter. Please
send a letter to Mr Kampree Kaocharern, the Attorney General of
Thailand, and urge him to take prompt steps to speed up the case,
considering the brutality and urgency and the fact that the case has
already been considerably delayed before the accused is an airforce
officer. Please also urge him to take evidence from witnesses prior to
the next hearing in 2006 in order to prevent damage to the prosecution
case.
Urgent Appeals Desk
Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC)
UPDATED INFORMATION:
An 18-year-old Burmese migrant worker, Ma Suu, was brutally murdered
by her employees, Suchart Akkavibul and his wife Yuwadee, who set her
on fire alleging theft in Lop Buri Province, Thailand, in early July
2002. Two years after the incident on June 25, 2004, Suchart and his
wife finally appeared before the Uthaithanee Provincial Court.
However, they were given bail on the grounds that Suchart is a state
officer, although the prosecutor opposed bail. Suchart Akkavibul is a
special group commander in the Royal Thai Airforce.
The public prosecutor then applied to the court in order to take
testimony from the witnesses before the entry of the charge in the
court under Section 237 of the Criminal Procedure Code B.E.2477
[1928]. According to Section 237, when there are reasonable grounds to
believe that it is difficult for the witness to give testimony in the
future, the public prosecutor can apply motion to the court to take
his testimony promptly before the entry of the charge in the court.
The court received this application and hearings were held two times
on July 26 and August 4, 2004. Five Burmese workers who were employed
by Suchart gave their testimony at the hearings. Their names were
recorded as Mr Janai, Mr Chid, Mr Chai, Mr Nai and Mr Sang. At the
hearings, they testified that they saw that Ma Suu was severely beaten
by the employers. Some of them also testified that they saw her burn
injuries after the incident. Another Thai employer named Samrueng
Ponnikorn, who had been involved in the incident, also testified
against the two accused with the agreement that he would be escape
from prosecution. His elder brother, Kamron Ponnikorn has also already
agreed to testify in next hearing on the same condition.
Finally, the Public Prosecutor charged Suchart and his wife with
murder, confinement and harbouring an illegal alien under Sections 289
and 310 of the Penal Code of Thailand and Section 64 of the
Immigration Act B.E.2522 [1979]. The first hearing of the case was
held at Uthaithanee Provincial Court on November 1. Although the
initial progress looked good, the court set the next hearing for
January 2006. As a new hearing system was enforced a year ago, the
court needs time to handle pending cases filed in the old hearing
system prior to hearing new cases. However, local human rights groups
argue that enforcing the new hearing system is being used as an excuse
to drag on trial in some cases, and this case must be heard without
further delay due to its brutality and urgency. The accused Thai
airforce officer and his wife had already escaped justice for two
years, apparently because of the officer's influence and position of
authority.
A journalist working for the Voice of America is also scheduled to
give a statement in the next hearing. He is the person who recorded Ma
Suu's statement about the incident and took her photos when he visited
her at the hospital in July 2004.
Ma Suu's lawyer worries that the delay will weaken the case and the
accused will enjoy impunity in the end, as most of these witnesses may
not be expected to be available at the convenience of the court over a
year from now. The lawyer is also concerned that even though some
witnesses may appear in the court in 2006, the evidence of the case
will be destroyed because the accused is an influential state officer.
BREIF REMINDER OF THE CASE:
Ma Suu was brutally murdered by her employers, Suchart and Yuwadee
Akkavibul, who set her on fire alleging theft in Lop Buri Province,
Thailand, in early July 2002. Although Ma Suu sustained fatal burn
injuries, her employers abandoned her in a room without treatment or
food for three days and then dumped her by a roadside. On the early
morning of July 7, 2002, a man found Ma Suu on the road and sent her
to a hospital in town. However, she died nine days later, after
implicating the accused three persons;, Suchart his wife and Kamron
Ponnikorn.
SUGGESTED ACTION:
Please send a letter to the Attorney General of Thailand and urge him
to take prompt steps to speed up the case. Please also urge the
Attorney General to file the motion to the Court under Section 237 of
the Criminal Procedure Code B.E.2477 [1928], and take evidences from
the witnesses concerned prior to the next hearing in 2006 in order to
prevent loss of evidence.
Sample letter:
Dear Mr Kampree,
THAILAND: Case of the killing of a migrant worker dragged on by
apparent delay of trial; Public prosecutor must speed up the case;
(Black No. 1089/2547 at Uthaithanee Provincial Court)
Name of Victim: Ma Suu, 18, a Burmese migrant worker
The Accused:
1) Suchart Akkavibul, a special group commander in the Royal Thai
Airforce
2) Yuwadee Akkavibul, wife of Suchart Akkavibul
Case Number: Black Number 1089/2547 at Uthaithanee Province Court
It is with grave concern that I write to you regarding the apparent
delay of a trial of Ma Suu, a Burmese migrant worker brutally murdered
by her employers, Suchart and Yuwadee Akkavibul in July 2002.
According to the information I have received, at the first case
hearing on 1 November 2004, the Uthaithanee Provincial Court delayed
the trial by setting the next hearing for January 2006 despite the
presence of a number of witnesses and strong evidence ensured through
preliminary hearings.
This delay will weaken the case, as the witnesses concerned may not be
expected to be available at the convenience of the court over a year
from now. I am also concerned that the case evidence may be harmed due
to the delay by giving enough time and chance to the accused to
manipulate it. I would like to remind you that one of the accused,
Suchart Akkavibul, is an influential officer in the Royal Thai
Airforce, and he and his wife have so far escaped justice for two
years because of this.
I therefore urge you to take prompt action to speed up the case in
court. I also urge you to take appropriate steps to take evidence from
the witnesses concerned, with the permission of the court, prior to
the next hearing in 2006, in order to prevent loss of evidence.
Yours truly,
SEND A LETTER TO:
Mr Kampree Kaocharern
Attorney General
Office of the Attorney General
Lukmuang Building
Nahuppei Road
Prabraromrachawang, Pranakorn
THAILAND
Fax: +66 2 224 1448 / 221 0858
SEND A COPY OF THE LETTER TO:
1. Mr Pongthep Thepkanjana
Minister of Justice
Office of the Ministry of Justice
Ministry of Justice Building
22nd Floor
Chaeng Wattana Road
Pakkred, Nonthaburi
Bangkok 11120
THAILAND
Tel: +66 2 502 6776/ 8223
Fax: +66 2 502 6699/ 6734/ 6884
2. Ms Yakin Erturk
Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women
OHCHR-UNOG
Palais Wilson, 8-14 Avenue de la Paix
1211 Geneva 10
SWITZERLAND
Fax: +41 22 917 9022
3. Ms Gabriela Rodr?uez Pizarro
Special Rapporteur on the human rights of migrants
Att: Ms. Veronica Birga
Room: 3-040
8-14 Avenue de la Paix
1211 Geneva 10
Switzerland
Tel: +41 22 917 9336
Fax: +41 22 917 9006
E-mail: urgent-action@ohchr.org (please include in the subject box:
Special Rapporteur HR Migrants)
Thank you.
Urgent Appeals Programme
Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC)
-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.K. HINDUS BEST AT MONEY MATTERS
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/60227a80906a01ec
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:34 pm
From: "Max Muir"
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> He's a self-admitted illegal narcotics user. Is he going into
> the dealing business?
What, like the Indian weight lifters?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4838968.stm
"Indian lifters fail doping test"
> Jai Maharaj
> http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
> http://www.mantra.com/jai
> Om Shanti
>
> In article <OkcZf.9709$9h5.3209@dukeread09>,
> "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
> > i think mummud muir is working to get a grant from british govt to find out
> > the english equivalents of milipede and centipedes.
Looks like I found the Indian equivalent of scorpion and rat too.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ga. Poised to Mandate Bible Study in Public Schools
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6749ea0a5de614fa
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 4:34 am
From: salad
NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
>
> Ga. Poised to Mandate Bible Study in Public Schools
This is something that will get shot down by the courts. It'd be
interesting to see what happens if it passes.
However, this action does indicate why Georgia has always been
considered an ignorant state.
And it also indicates how closely we resemble Iran and the other
fundamentalist nations.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bangla Terrorist Groups Involved In Varanasi Bomb Blats
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee4fc3538a948b81
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:35 pm
From: "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101@dont.reply>
"rkusenet" <rkusenet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144319923.025580.300960@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Seeker wrote:
> > More innocent Muslims targeted by the incompetent police of India.
Indian
> > police can't catch the real Hindu terrorists who carried out this attack
so
> > they frame harmless, defenseless Muslims.
>
> YUP. ONLY PAKIS AND KATUAS HAVE MONOPOLY OVER
> THE TRUTH. (Quran: 7:56)
Oh no, the gita gives the power of truth only to hindutvadi racists brahmins
like you.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:36 pm
From: "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101@dont.reply>
"Mirza Ghalib" <mghalib01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144339472.111955.175430@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Since you always complain about persecution of Muslims
> in "Hindu" India, I am proposing this deal. We take all of your
> (Paki) Hindus, and any Parsis, Christian and Buddhists.
> In return you take the bad Muslims out of India. Deal?
Once again, you express your desire to exterminate Muslims from India. I am
sure to you all Muslims are bad Muslims.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: STUDY TALMUD WHILE MASTURBATING
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ed4860965fd8b849
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 12:37 am
From: "serwad"
CHAPTER II
MISHNAH. EVERY HAND THAT MAKES FREQUENT EXAMINATION IS IN THE CASE OF WOMEN
PRAISEWORTHY,1 BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.2
GEMARA. Wherein [in this respect]3 do women differ from men?4 - Women [in
this matter] are not sensitive,5 hence they are praiseworthy,1 but in the
case of men who are highly sensitive [their hands] ought to be cut off.2
But, if so,2 what was the point in saying 'MAKES FREQUENT' [seeing that the
same reason2 applies] also where [the examinations are] infrequent? - When
'MAKES FREQUENT' was mentioned it was intended to refer to women only.6
One taught: This7 applies only to the emission of semen but as regards
flux8 a man also is as praiseworthy as the women;9 and even in regard to
the emission of semen, if he desires to make the examination with a splinter
or with a potsherd10 he may do so. May he not, however, do it with a rag,
seeing that it was taught: A man may examine himself with a rag or with any
other thing he wishes? - As Abaye stated elsewhere: 'With a thick rag'.10
So also here11 it may be explained: With a thick rag.10 And in what
connection was Abaye's statement made? In connection with the following: If
a priest, while eating terumah, felt a shiver run through his body12 he
takes hold of his membrum13 and swallows the terumah.14 'Takes hold'! But
has it not been taught: R. Eliezer said, 'Whoever holds his membrum when he
makes water is as though he had brought a flood on the world'?15 To this
Abaye replied. 'With a thick rag'.16 Raba replied: It17 may even be said
to apply to a soft rag for once the semen has been detached the subsequent
touch does no longer matter.18 And Abaye?19 - He made provision against
the possibility of an additional discharge.20 And Raba? - He does not
consider the possibility of any additional discharges. But does he not,
seeing that it was taught, 'To what may this21 be compared? To the putting
of a finger upon the eye where, as long as the finger remains on it, the eye
continues to tear'?22 Now Raba?23 - It is quite uncommon for one to get
heated twice in immediate succession.24
[Reverting to] the main text: 'R. Eliezer said, Whoever holds his membrum
when he makes water is as though he had brought a flood on the world'. But,
they said to R. Eliezer, would not the spray bespatter his feet and he would
appear to be maimed in his privy parts so that he25 would be the cause of
casting upon his children the reflection of being illegitimate? - It is
preferable, he answered them, that a man should be the cause of casting upon
his children the reflection of being illegitimate than that he should make
himself a wicked man, even for a while, before the Omnipresent. Another
[Baraitha] taught: R. Eliezer replied to the Sages. It is possible for a man
to stand on a raised spot and to make water or to make water in loose earth
and thus to avoid making himself wicked, even for a while, before the
Omnipresent. Which26 did he27 tell them28 first? If it be suggested that
it was the first mentioned statement that he gave them first [is it likely,
it may be objected], that after he spoke to them of a prohibition29 he
would merely offer a remedy?30 - The fact is that it was the last mentioned
statement31 that he gave them first, and when they asked him, 'What is he
to do when he can find no raised spot or loose earth', he answered them, 'It
is preferable that a man should be the cause of casting upon his children
the reflection of being illegitimate than that he should make himself a
wicked man, even for a while, before the Omnipresent'.
But why all these precautions?32 - Because otherwise one might emit semen
in vain, and R. Johanan stated: Whosoever emits semen in vain deserves
death, for it is said in Scripture. And the thing33 which he did33 was
evil in the sight of the Lord, and He slew him also.34 R. Isaac and R. Ammi
said. He35 is as though he shed blood, for it is said in Scripture. Ye that
inflame yourselves among the terebinths, under every leafy tree, that slay
the children in the valleys under the clefts of the rocks;36 read not 'that
slay'37 but 'that press out'.38 R. Assi said: He39 is like one who
worships idols; for here36 it is written, 'Under every leafy tree' and
elsewhere40 it is written, upon the high mountains . and under every leafy
tree.41
Rab Judah and Samuel once stood upon the roof of the Synagogue of
Shaf-weyathib42 in Nehardea. Said Rab Judah to Samuel 'I must make water'.
'Shinena',43 the other replied, 'take hold of your membrum44 and make the
water outside [the roof]'. But how could he45 do so, seeing that it was
taught: R. Eliezer said, Whoever holds his membrum when he makes water is as
though he brought a flood on the world? - Abaye replied: He treated this
case as that of a reconnoitering troop, concerning which we learnt, 'If a
reconnoitering troop has entered a town in time of peace the open wine jars
are forbidden46 and the closed ones are permitted,47 but in times of war
the former as well as the latter are permitted because the troops have no
time to offer libations'.48 Thus it clearly follows that owing to their
being in a state of fear they do not think49 of offering libations, and so
also in this case, since he45 was in a state of fear he would not think of
lustful matters. But what fear could there be here? - If you wish I might
reply: The fear of the night and of the roof.50 If you prefer I might
reply: The fear of his Master.51 If you prefer I might say: The fear of the
Shechinah.52 If you prefer I might say: The fear of the Lord that was53
upon him,54 for Samuel once remarked of him55 'This man is no mortal
being'.55 If you prefer I might say: He was a married man, and concerning
such R. Nahman ruled, 'If a man was married, this is permitted'. If you
prefer I might say: It was this that he taught him, vis., that which R. Abba
the son of R. Benjamin b. Hiyya learnt: But he may support the testicles
from below. And if you prefer I might say: It was this that he taught them,
viz., that which R. Abbahu stated in the name of R. Johanan: It has a limit;
from the corona downward [touch] is permitted
To Part b
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. Since both husband and wife are thereby saved either from doubtful
uncleanness or from certain transgression.
2.. Because of masturbation.
3.. FREQUENT EXAMINATION.
4.. Sc. why is the hand of the former PRAISEWORTHY while that of the
latter OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF?
5.. I.e., the examination does not unduly excite their passions.
6.. Cf. n. 1.
7.. The culpability of men who make such examinations.
8.. I.e., when a man is suffering from gonorrhoea and is desirous of
ascertaining the number of attacks he had (v. next n.).
9.. Since it is necessary to ascertain whether the attack occurred only
twice or three times. In the former case the man is only unclean while in
the latter he must also bring a sacrifice.
10.. Avoiding masturbation.
11.. In the Baraitha just cited.
12.. Lit., 'that his limbs trembled', an indication of the imminent
emission of semen.
13.. To restrain the emission. Uncleanness does not set in until the semen
has actually left the body.
14.. Infra 40a.
15.. Shab. 41a, infra 43a. The generation of the flood were guilty of such
offences (cf. R.H. 12a). Now how, in view of R. Eliezer's statement, could
one be allowed to commit an offence even for the sake of terumah?
16.. Avoiding masturbation.
17.. In the Baraitha just cited.
18.. Lit., 'since it was uprooted it was uprooted', no more semen would be
emitted despite the heat engendered.
19.. Why, in view of Raba's explanation, does he restrict the application
to a thick rag only?
20.. Of semen.
21.. The touching of the membrum after an emission.
22.. Infra 43a. Lit. 'tears and tears again'.
23.. How could he differ from this Baraitha?
24.. Lit., 'any being heated and being heated again in its time'. Hence
the ruling in the Mishnah infra 40a. The Baraitha infra 43a, on the other
hand, refers to one who practised self-abuse.
25.. Being assumed to be incapable of procreation.
26.. Of the two statements cited.
27.. R. Eliezer.
28.. The Sages.
29.. Which applies in all cases.
30.. Implying that where the remedy is inapplicable the prohibition may be
disregarded.
31.. Lit., 'that'.
32.. Lit., 'and all such, why'.
33.. 'He spilled it on the ground' (Gen. XXXVIII, 9).
34.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
35.. Who emits semen in vain.
36.. Isa. LVII, 5.
37.. [H].
38.. [H] interchange of the sibilants shin and sin.
39.. Who emits semen in vain.
40.. In reference to idolatry.
41.. Deut. XII, 2; an inference by analogy.
42.. The name of a man or place. v. Meg. (Sonc. ed.) p. 175, n. 5.
43.. 'Keen-witted', 'long-toothed' (denoting some facial characteristic)
or 'man of iron endurance', cf. B.B. (Sonc. ed.) p. 561, n. 14.
44.. To prevent the water from falling on the roof.
45.. Rab Judah.
46.. Because the troops may have offered them as libation to their idols.
47.. It being assumed that the troops who have at their disposal the open
jars would not meddle with the closed ones.
48.. Keth. 27a, A.Z., 70b.
49.. Lit., 'come'.
50.. Standing on its edge in the darkness of the night he is afraid of
falling off.
51.. Samuel.
52.. Which abides in the Synagogue.
53.. Always, even when not on a roof or in the darkness of night.
54.. So that no impure thoughts would occur to him even at any other time
or place.
55.. Lit., 'born of woman'.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:41 pm
From: "Ariadne"
Very vile, aren't you...
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 12:44 am
From: "serwad"
Niddah 13b
but from the corona upwards1 it is forbidden.
Rab stated: 'A man who wilfully causes erection should be placed2 under the
ban'. But why did he3 not say, 'This is forbidden'? Because the man4
merely incites his evil inclination against himself.5 R. Ammi, however,
stated: He4 is called a renegade, because such is the art of the evil
inclination: To-day it incites man to do one wrong thing,6 and to-morrow7
it incites him to worship idols and he proceeds to worship them.
There are others who read: R. Ammi8 stated, He who excites himself by
lustful thoughts will not be allowed to enter the division of the Holy One,
blessed be He. For here it is written, Was evil in the sight of the Lord,9
and elsewhere it is written, For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee.10
R.11 Eleazar stated: Who are referred to12 in the Scriptural text, Your
hands are full of blood?13 Those that commit masturbation with their hands.
It was taught at the school of R. Ishmael, Thou shalt not commit adultery14
implies, Thou shalt not practise masturbation either with hand or with foot.
Our Rabbis taught: 'proselytes and those that play with children delay the
advent of the Messiah'. The statement about proselytes may be understood on
the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, 'proselytes are as
hard for Israel to endure as a sore',15 what, however, could be meant by
'those that play with children'?16 If it be suggested: Those that practise
pederasty [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to
stoning?17 If, however, it be suggested: Those that practise onanism
through external contact18 [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving
destruction by flood?17 - The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors
who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose19 stated: The Son of
David20 will not come before all the souls in Guf21 will have been
disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from
Me, and the souls which I have made.22
BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF. The question was raised: Have
we here23 learnt a law or merely an execration? 'Have we here learnt a law'
as in the case where R. Huna cut off one's hand;24 'or merely an
execration'? - Come and hear what was taught: R. Tarfon said, 'If his hand
touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they
said to him,25 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
into the pit of destruction'.26 Now if you concede that we have here27
learnt a law28 one can well understand why they said, 'Would not his belly
be split'; but if you maintain that we have only learnt of an execration,29
what could be meant by [the question] 'His belly be split'? - What then
would you suggest, that we have learnt here a law, would it not suffice, [it
may be objected, that the cutting off shall] not be done on his belly? - The
fact, however, is that it was this that R. Tarfon meant: Whosoever puts his
hand below his belly that hand shall be cut off. They said to R. Tarfon, 'If
a thorn stuck in his belly, should he not remove it'? 'No', he replied. 'But
[they said] would not his belly be split'?30 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
to the pit of destruction'.26
MISHNAH. IN THE CASE OF A DEAF,31 AN IMBECILE, A BLIND OR AN INSANE32
WOMAN, IF OTHER WOMEN OF SOUND SENSES ARE AVAILABLE33 THEY ATTEND TO HER,34
AND SHE MAY THEN EAT TERUMAH.
GEMARA. Why should not a DEAF woman make her own examination, seeing that it
was taught: Rabbi stated, A deaf woman was living in our neighbourhood and
not only35 did she examine herself but her friends also on observing a
discharge would show it to her?36 - There it was a woman who could speak
but not hear while here the reference is to one who can neither speak nor
hear; as we have learnt: The deaf person of whom the Sages spoke is always37
one who can neither hear nor speak.38
A BLIND. Why should she not make her own examination and show the
testing-rag to her friend? - R. Jose son of R. Hanina replied: The 'blind'
is no part of the Mishnah.39
OR AN INSANE WOMAN. Is not this exactly the same as IMBECILE?40 This refers
to one whose mind was deranged owing to a disease.
Our Rabbis taught: A priest who is an imbecile may be ritually immersed and
then fed with terumah41 in the evening.42 He must also be watched that he
does not fall asleep.43 If he falls asleep he is deemed unclean44 and if
he does not fall asleep he remains clean. R. Eliezer son of R. Zadok ruled:
He should be provided with a leather bag.45 The Rabbis said to him: 'Would
not this cause heat all the more'? 'According to your view', he replied,
'should an imbecile have no remedy'? 'According to our view', they retorted,
'only if he falls asleep46 is he deemed unclean but if he does not fall
asleep he remains clean, while according to your view there is the
possibility that he might discharge a drop of blood of the size of a mustard
seed and this would be absorbed in the bag'.47
A Tanna taught: It was stated in the name of R. Eleazar, The imbecile is to
be provided with a metal bag. Abaye explained: It must be one of copper, as
we have learnt:48 R. Judah ruled, Those buds of hyssop49 are regarded50
as if they had been made of copper.51
R. Papa remarked: From this52 it may be inferred that breeches53 are
forbidden. But is it not written in Scripture, And thou shalt make them
linen breeches to cover the flesh of their nakedness?54 - That may be
explained as it was taught: To what were the breeches of the priests like?
They were like the knee breeches of horsemen, reaching upwards to the loins
and downwards to the thighs. They also had laces but had no padding either
back or front.55
Abaye stated:
- To Next Folio -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. In the direction of the body.
2.. Cf. Tosaf.
3.. Rab.
4.. Who indulges in the reprehensible practice.
5.. The practice, therefore, could only be condemned but not forbidden.
6.. Lit.,'tells him: Do so'.
7.. Lit., 'and on the morrow'.
8.. MS.M., 'Assi'.
9.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
10.. Ps. V, 5. analogy between the two expressions of 'evil'. Alfasi
(Shab. XIV) inserts, 'R. Eleazar said, What is meant by evil shall not
sojourn with thee? The evil (minded) man shall not sojourn in Thy dwelling'.
11.. So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd. and Alfasi, 'and R.'
12.. Lit., 'what'.
13.. Isa. I, 15.
14.. Ex. XX, 13.
15.. V. Yeb. 47b.
16.. Who apparently commit no crime at all.
17.. They are; while here they are merely described as delaying the advent
of the Messiah.
18.. Lit., 'by way of limbs'.
19.. Var. lec. 'Assi' (Yeb. 62a) 'Joseph' (MS.M.).
20.. The Messiah.
21.. Lit., 'Body', the region inhabited by the souls of the unborn.
22.. Isa. LVII, 16.
23.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF'.
24.. Though the same expression (cf. prev. n.) was used. Sanh. 58b.
25.. Cur. edd. in parenthesis, 'If a thorn stuck in his belly should he
not remove it? He said to them: No'.
26.. Gehenna.
27.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
28.. So that R. Tarfon's statement is to be taken literally.
29.. The 'cutting off' being a mere figure of speech.
30.. By the thorn.
31.. I.e., deaf-mute (v. Gemara infra).
32.. Lit., 'whose mind was deranged'.
33.. Lit., 'they have'.
34.. Lit., 'they prepare them', i.e., make the necessary examination and
supervise the prescribed ritual immersion.
35.. Lit., 'it was not enough'.
36.. Who was an authority on the subject, in order to obtain her opinion
on the colour whether it was that of clean or of unclean blood.
37.. Lit., 'in every place'.
38.. Hag. 2b.
39.. It is a spurious addition.
40.. Apparently it is; why then the repetition?
41.. Which is forbidden to an unclean priest.
42.. Since after due immersion one attains to cleanness at nightfall.
43.. In his sleep under his bedclothes heat might be engendered and this
would cause him to emit semen which would render him unclean and, therefore,
unfit to eat terumah.
44.. Cf. prev. n.
45.. Which can be examined for traces of semen before any terumah is given
to him.
46.. After immersion and after nightfall.
47.. Tosef. Nid. II. As it would thus be lost to sight the priest would be
regarded as clean and terumah would, as a result, be eaten by one who is in
fact unclean; and consequently an offence that is punishable by death (at
the hand of God) would unconsciously be committed.
48.. MS.M. and marg. n. Cur. edd., 'as it was taught'.
49.. Used in connection with the water of purification.
50.. When the water is measured to ascertain whether it contained
sufficient for a sprinkling (cf. supra 9a).
51.. Parah Xli, 5. Sc. as if they did not absorb any water at all; from
which it follows, in support of Abaye's explanation, that copper is a
non-absorbent.
52.. The prohibition of a bag supra on account of the heat it engenders.
53.. Such as engender heat, v. infra.
54.. Ex. XXVIII, 42.
55.. Hanging loosely round the organ the breeches could engender no heat.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:48 pm
From: "Jim E"
"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:zYlZf.3468$yh.1958@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Typical muzzy slime.
Adicted to sexual deviance above all else.
alex , you are way to old for these fantasies.
Jim E
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: TALMUD: NO ERECTION ALLOWED
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c83fd88832f6de4b
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 12:39 am
From: "serwad"
Niddah 13b
but from the corona upwards1 it is forbidden.
Rab stated: 'A man who wilfully causes erection should be placed2 under the
ban'. But why did he3 not say, 'This is forbidden'? Because the man4
merely incites his evil inclination against himself.5 R. Ammi, however,
stated: He4 is called a renegade, because such is the art of the evil
inclination: To-day it incites man to do one wrong thing,6 and to-morrow7
it incites him to worship idols and he proceeds to worship them.
There are others who read: R. Ammi8 stated, He who excites himself by
lustful thoughts will not be allowed to enter the division of the Holy One,
blessed be He. For here it is written, Was evil in the sight of the Lord,9
and elsewhere it is written, For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee.10
R.11 Eleazar stated: Who are referred to12 in the Scriptural text, Your
hands are full of blood?13 Those that commit masturbation with their hands.
It was taught at the school of R. Ishmael, Thou shalt not commit adultery14
implies, Thou shalt not practise masturbation either with hand or with foot.
Our Rabbis taught: 'proselytes and those that play with children delay the
advent of the Messiah'. The statement about proselytes may be understood on
the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, 'proselytes are as
hard for Israel to endure as a sore',15 what, however, could be meant by
'those that play with children'?16 If it be suggested: Those that practise
pederasty [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to
stoning?17 If, however, it be suggested: Those that practise onanism
through external contact18 [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving
destruction by flood?17 - The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors
who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose19 stated: The Son of
David20 will not come before all the souls in Guf21 will have been
disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from
Me, and the souls which I have made.22
BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF. The question was raised: Have
we here23 learnt a law or merely an execration? 'Have we here learnt a law'
as in the case where R. Huna cut off one's hand;24 'or merely an
execration'? - Come and hear what was taught: R. Tarfon said, 'If his hand
touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they
said to him,25 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
into the pit of destruction'.26 Now if you concede that we have here27
learnt a law28 one can well understand why they said, 'Would not his belly
be split'; but if you maintain that we have only learnt of an execration,29
what could be meant by [the question] 'His belly be split'? - What then
would you suggest, that we have learnt here a law, would it not suffice, [it
may be objected, that the cutting off shall] not be done on his belly? - The
fact, however, is that it was this that R. Tarfon meant: Whosoever puts his
hand below his belly that hand shall be cut off. They said to R. Tarfon, 'If
a thorn stuck in his belly, should he not remove it'? 'No', he replied. 'But
[they said] would not his belly be split'?30 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
to the pit of destruction'.26
MISHNAH. IN THE CASE OF A DEAF,31 AN IMBECILE, A BLIND OR AN INSANE32
WOMAN, IF OTHER WOMEN OF SOUND SENSES ARE AVAILABLE33 THEY ATTEND TO HER,34
AND SHE MAY THEN EAT TERUMAH.
GEMARA. Why should not a DEAF woman make her own examination, seeing that it
was taught: Rabbi stated, A deaf woman was living in our neighbourhood and
not only35 did she examine herself but her friends also on observing a
discharge would show it to her?36 - There it was a woman who could speak
but not hear while here the reference is to one who can neither speak nor
hear; as we have learnt: The deaf person of whom the Sages spoke is always37
one who can neither hear nor speak.38
A BLIND. Why should she not make her own examination and show the
testing-rag to her friend? - R. Jose son of R. Hanina replied: The 'blind'
is no part of the Mishnah.39
OR AN INSANE WOMAN. Is not this exactly the same as IMBECILE?40 This refers
to one whose mind was deranged owing to a disease.
Our Rabbis taught: A priest who is an imbecile may be ritually immersed and
then fed with terumah41 in the evening.42 He must also be watched that he
does not fall asleep.43 If he falls asleep he is deemed unclean44 and if
he does not fall asleep he remains clean. R. Eliezer son of R. Zadok ruled:
He should be provided with a leather bag.45 The Rabbis said to him: 'Would
not this cause heat all the more'? 'According to your view', he replied,
'should an imbecile have no remedy'? 'According to our view', they retorted,
'only if he falls asleep46 is he deemed unclean but if he does not fall
asleep he remains clean, while according to your view there is the
possibility that he might discharge a drop of blood of the size of a mustard
seed and this would be absorbed in the bag'.47
A Tanna taught: It was stated in the name of R. Eleazar, The imbecile is to
be provided with a metal bag. Abaye explained: It must be one of copper, as
we have learnt:48 R. Judah ruled, Those buds of hyssop49 are regarded50
as if they had been made of copper.51
R. Papa remarked: From this52 it may be inferred that breeches53 are
forbidden. But is it not written in Scripture, And thou shalt make them
linen breeches to cover the flesh of their nakedness?54 - That may be
explained as it was taught: To what were the breeches of the priests like?
They were like the knee breeches of horsemen, reaching upwards to the loins
and downwards to the thighs. They also had laces but had no padding either
back or front.55
Abaye stated:
- To Next Folio -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. In the direction of the body.
2.. Cf. Tosaf.
3.. Rab.
4.. Who indulges in the reprehensible practice.
5.. The practice, therefore, could only be condemned but not forbidden.
6.. Lit.,'tells him: Do so'.
7.. Lit., 'and on the morrow'.
8.. MS.M., 'Assi'.
9.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
10.. Ps. V, 5. analogy between the two expressions of 'evil'. Alfasi
(Shab. XIV) inserts, 'R. Eleazar said, What is meant by evil shall not
sojourn with thee? The evil (minded) man shall not sojourn in Thy dwelling'.
11.. So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd. and Alfasi, 'and R.'
12.. Lit., 'what'.
13.. Isa. I, 15.
14.. Ex. XX, 13.
15.. V. Yeb. 47b.
16.. Who apparently commit no crime at all.
17.. They are; while here they are merely described as delaying the advent
of the Messiah.
18.. Lit., 'by way of limbs'.
19.. Var. lec. 'Assi' (Yeb. 62a) 'Joseph' (MS.M.).
20.. The Messiah.
21.. Lit., 'Body', the region inhabited by the souls of the unborn.
22.. Isa. LVII, 16.
23.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF'.
24.. Though the same expression (cf. prev. n.) was used. Sanh. 58b.
25.. Cur. edd. in parenthesis, 'If a thorn stuck in his belly should he
not remove it? He said to them: No'.
26.. Gehenna.
27.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
28.. So that R. Tarfon's statement is to be taken literally.
29.. The 'cutting off' being a mere figure of speech.
30.. By the thorn.
31.. I.e., deaf-mute (v. Gemara infra).
32.. Lit., 'whose mind was deranged'.
33.. Lit., 'they have'.
34.. Lit., 'they prepare them', i.e., make the necessary examination and
supervise the prescribed ritual immersion.
35.. Lit., 'it was not enough'.
36.. Who was an authority on the subject, in order to obtain her opinion
on the colour whether it was that of clean or of unclean blood.
37.. Lit., 'in every place'.
38.. Hag. 2b.
39.. It is a spurious addition.
40.. Apparently it is; why then the repetition?
41.. Which is forbidden to an unclean priest.
42.. Since after due immersion one attains to cleanness at nightfall.
43.. In his sleep under his bedclothes heat might be engendered and this
would cause him to emit semen which would render him unclean and, therefore,
unfit to eat terumah.
44.. Cf. prev. n.
45.. Which can be examined for traces of semen before any terumah is given
to him.
46.. After immersion and after nightfall.
47.. Tosef. Nid. II. As it would thus be lost to sight the priest would be
regarded as clean and terumah would, as a result, be eaten by one who is in
fact unclean; and consequently an offence that is punishable by death (at
the hand of God) would unconsciously be committed.
48.. MS.M. and marg. n. Cur. edd., 'as it was taught'.
49.. Used in connection with the water of purification.
50.. When the water is measured to ascertain whether it contained
sufficient for a sprinkling (cf. supra 9a).
51.. Parah Xli, 5. Sc. as if they did not absorb any water at all; from
which it follows, in support of Abaye's explanation, that copper is a
non-absorbent.
52.. The prohibition of a bag supra on account of the heat it engenders.
53.. Such as engender heat, v. infra.
54.. Ex. XXVIII, 42.
55.. Hanging loosely round the organ the breeches could engender no heat.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:49 pm
From: "Ariadne"
serwad wrote:
==============================================================================
TOPIC: talmud: masturbate on holohoax
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f2923bad9ecde52
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 12:41 am
From: "serwad"
Niddah 13b
but from the corona upwards1 it is forbidden.
Rab stated: 'A man who wilfully causes erection should be placed2 under the
ban'. But why did he3 not say, 'This is forbidden'? Because the man4
merely incites his evil inclination against himself.5 R. Ammi, however,
stated: He4 is called a renegade, because such is the art of the evil
inclination: To-day it incites man to do one wrong thing,6 and to-morrow7
it incites him to worship idols and he proceeds to worship them.
There are others who read: R. Ammi8 stated, He who excites himself by
lustful thoughts will not be allowed to enter the division of the Holy One,
blessed be He. For here it is written, Was evil in the sight of the Lord,9
and elsewhere it is written, For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee.10
R.11 Eleazar stated: Who are referred to12 in the Scriptural text, Your
hands are full of blood?13 Those that commit masturbation with their hands.
It was taught at the school of R. Ishmael, Thou shalt not commit adultery14
implies, Thou shalt not practise masturbation either with hand or with foot.
Our Rabbis taught: 'proselytes and those that play with children delay the
advent of the Messiah'. The statement about proselytes may be understood on
the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, 'proselytes are as
hard for Israel to endure as a sore',15 what, however, could be meant by
'those that play with children'?16 If it be suggested: Those that practise
pederasty [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to
stoning?17 If, however, it be suggested: Those that practise onanism
through external contact18 [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving
destruction by flood?17 - The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors
who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose19 stated: The Son of
David20 will not come before all the souls in Guf21 will have been
disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from
Me, and the souls which I have made.22
BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF. The question was raised: Have
we here23 learnt a law or merely an execration? 'Have we here learnt a law'
as in the case where R. Huna cut off one's hand;24 'or merely an
execration'? - Come and hear what was taught: R. Tarfon said, 'If his hand
touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they
said to him,25 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
into the pit of destruction'.26 Now if you concede that we have here27
learnt a law28 one can well understand why they said, 'Would not his belly
be split'; but if you maintain that we have only learnt of an execration,29
what could be meant by [the question] 'His belly be split'? - What then
would you suggest, that we have learnt here a law, would it not suffice, [it
may be objected, that the cutting off shall] not be done on his belly? - The
fact, however, is that it was this that R. Tarfon meant: Whosoever puts his
hand below his belly that hand shall be cut off. They said to R. Tarfon, 'If
a thorn stuck in his belly, should he not remove it'? 'No', he replied. 'But
[they said] would not his belly be split'?30 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
to the pit of destruction'.26
MISHNAH. IN THE CASE OF A DEAF,31 AN IMBECILE, A BLIND OR AN INSANE32
WOMAN, IF OTHER WOMEN OF SOUND SENSES ARE AVAILABLE33 THEY ATTEND TO HER,34
AND SHE MAY THEN EAT TERUMAH.
GEMARA. Why should not a DEAF woman make her own examination, seeing that it
was taught: Rabbi stated, A deaf woman was living in our neighbourhood and
not only35 did she examine herself but her friends also on observing a
discharge would show it to her?36 - There it was a woman who could speak
but not hear while here the reference is to one who can neither speak nor
hear; as we have learnt: The deaf person of whom the Sages spoke is always37
one who can neither hear nor speak.38
A BLIND. Why should she not make her own examination and show the
testing-rag to her friend? - R. Jose son of R. Hanina replied: The 'blind'
is no part of the Mishnah.39
OR AN INSANE WOMAN. Is not this exactly the same as IMBECILE?40 This refers
to one whose mind was deranged owing to a disease.
Our Rabbis taught: A priest who is an imbecile may be ritually immersed and
then fed with terumah41 in the evening.42 He must also be watched that he
does not fall asleep.43 If he falls asleep he is deemed unclean44 and if
he does not fall asleep he remains clean. R. Eliezer son of R. Zadok ruled:
He should be provided with a leather bag.45 The Rabbis said to him: 'Would
not this cause heat all the more'? 'According to your view', he replied,
'should an imbecile have no remedy'? 'According to our view', they retorted,
'only if he falls asleep46 is he deemed unclean but if he does not fall
asleep he remains clean, while according to your view there is the
possibility that he might discharge a drop of blood of the size of a mustard
seed and this would be absorbed in the bag'.47
A Tanna taught: It was stated in the name of R. Eleazar, The imbecile is to
be provided with a metal bag. Abaye explained: It must be one of copper, as
we have learnt:48 R. Judah ruled, Those buds of hyssop49 are regarded50
as if they had been made of copper.51
R. Papa remarked: From this52 it may be inferred that breeches53 are
forbidden. But is it not written in Scripture, And thou shalt make them
linen breeches to cover the flesh of their nakedness?54 - That may be
explained as it was taught: To what were the breeches of the priests like?
They were like the knee breeches of horsemen, reaching upwards to the loins
and downwards to the thighs. They also had laces but had no padding either
back or front.55
Abaye stated:
- To Next Folio -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. In the direction of the body.
2.. Cf. Tosaf.
3.. Rab.
4.. Who indulges in the reprehensible practice.
5.. The practice, therefore, could only be condemned but not forbidden.
6.. Lit.,'tells him: Do so'.
7.. Lit., 'and on the morrow'.
8.. MS.M., 'Assi'.
9.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
10.. Ps. V, 5. analogy between the two expressions of 'evil'. Alfasi
(Shab. XIV) inserts, 'R. Eleazar said, What is meant by evil shall not
sojourn with thee? The evil (minded) man shall not sojourn in Thy dwelling'.
11.. So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd. and Alfasi, 'and R.'
12.. Lit., 'what'.
13.. Isa. I, 15.
14.. Ex. XX, 13.
15.. V. Yeb. 47b.
16.. Who apparently commit no crime at all.
17.. They are; while here they are merely described as delaying the advent
of the Messiah.
18.. Lit., 'by way of limbs'.
19.. Var. lec. 'Assi' (Yeb. 62a) 'Joseph' (MS.M.).
20.. The Messiah.
21.. Lit., 'Body', the region inhabited by the souls of the unborn.
22.. Isa. LVII, 16.
23.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF'.
24.. Though the same expression (cf. prev. n.) was used. Sanh. 58b.
25.. Cur. edd. in parenthesis, 'If a thorn stuck in his belly should he
not remove it? He said to them: No'.
26.. Gehenna.
27.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
28.. So that R. Tarfon's statement is to be taken literally.
29.. The 'cutting off' being a mere figure of speech.
30.. By the thorn.
31.. I.e., deaf-mute (v. Gemara infra).
32.. Lit., 'whose mind was deranged'.
33.. Lit., 'they have'.
34.. Lit., 'they prepare them', i.e., make the necessary examination and
supervise the prescribed ritual immersion.
35.. Lit., 'it was not enough'.
36.. Who was an authority on the subject, in order to obtain her opinion
on the colour whether it was that of clean or of unclean blood.
37.. Lit., 'in every place'.
38.. Hag. 2b.
39.. It is a spurious addition.
40.. Apparently it is; why then the repetition?
41.. Which is forbidden to an unclean priest.
42.. Since after due immersion one attains to cleanness at nightfall.
43.. In his sleep under his bedclothes heat might be engendered and this
would cause him to emit semen which would render him unclean and, therefore,
unfit to eat terumah.
44.. Cf. prev. n.
45.. Which can be examined for traces of semen before any terumah is given
to him.
46.. After immersion and after nightfall.
47.. Tosef. Nid. II. As it would thus be lost to sight the priest would be
regarded as clean and terumah would, as a result, be eaten by one who is in
fact unclean; and consequently an offence that is punishable by death (at
the hand of God) would unconsciously be committed.
48.. MS.M. and marg. n. Cur. edd., 'as it was taught'.
49.. Used in connection with the water of purification.
50.. When the water is measured to ascertain whether it contained
sufficient for a sprinkling (cf. supra 9a).
51.. Parah Xli, 5. Sc. as if they did not absorb any water at all; from
which it follows, in support of Abaye's explanation, that copper is a
non-absorbent.
52.. The prohibition of a bag supra on account of the heat it engenders.
53.. Such as engender heat, v. infra.
54.. Ex. XXVIII, 42.
55.. Hanging loosely round the organ the breeches could engender no heat.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:45 pm
From: "Ariadne"
serwad wrote:
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WITH FRIENDS LIKE KIKES, AMERICA NEEDS NO ENEMIES!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cd9b460263d94174
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 2:40 pm
From: "Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com>
"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:4435E8E7.485C0826@io.com...
> jsp722@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> CHA nging his oil
>
> You're still confused about the pronunciation of "Yochai"...
Whereas you're totally confused, clog wog.
>
> --
> Hamas motto: لا إله لهم
> إلا الموت،
> «حماس» رسول
> الموت (The death-worshipping cult)
> Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 7 2006 2:41 pm
From: "Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com>
"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:4435E977.ED6DC69E@io.com...
> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>>news:4435D48A.9D4F26DA@io.com...
>
>>> You're confused about the pronunciation of "Yochai"!
>
>> ASK MOOSE, HE KNOWS KIKE LINGUO!
>
> Yep, I have some knowledge of French, Latin, Hebrew, and Arabic --
And none of honesty nor common sense.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: NO ERECTION ALLOWED: TALMUD
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/385775098c0645e5
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:43 pm
From: "serwad"
Niddah 13b
but from the corona upwards1 it is forbidden.
Rab stated: 'A man who wilfully causes erection should be placed2 under the
ban'. But why did he3 not say, 'This is forbidden'? Because the man4
merely incites his evil inclination against himself.5 R. Ammi, however,
stated: He4 is called a renegade, because such is the art of the evil
inclination: To-day it incites man to do one wrong thing,6 and to-morrow7
it incites him to worship idols and he proceeds to worship them.
There are others who read: R. Ammi8 stated, He who excites himself by
lustful thoughts will not be allowed to enter the division of the Holy One,
blessed be He. For here it is written, Was evil in the sight of the Lord,9
and elsewhere it is written, For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee.10
R.11 Eleazar stated: Who are referred to12 in the Scriptural text, Your
hands are full of blood?13 Those that commit masturbation with their hands.
It was taught at the school of R. Ishmael, Thou shalt not commit adultery14
implies, Thou shalt not practise masturbation either with hand or with foot.
Our Rabbis taught: 'proselytes and those that play with children delay the
advent of the Messiah'. The statement about proselytes may be understood on
the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, 'proselytes are as
hard for Israel to endure as a sore',15 what, however, could be meant by
'those that play with children'?16 If it be suggested: Those that practise
pederasty [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to
stoning?17 If, however, it be suggested: Those that practise onanism
through external contact18 [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving
destruction by flood?17 - The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors
who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose19 stated: The Son of
David20 will not come before all the souls in Guf21 will have been
disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from
Me, and the souls which I have made.22
BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF. The question was raised: Have
we here23 learnt a law or merely an execration? 'Have we here learnt a law'
as in the case where R. Huna cut off one's hand;24 'or merely an
execration'? - Come and hear what was taught: R. Tarfon said, 'If his hand
touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they
said to him,25 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
into the pit of destruction'.26 Now if you concede that we have here27
learnt a law28 one can well understand why they said, 'Would not his belly
be split'; but if you maintain that we have only learnt of an execration,29
what could be meant by [the question] 'His belly be split'? - What then
would you suggest, that we have learnt here a law, would it not suffice, [it
may be objected, that the cutting off shall] not be done on his belly? - The
fact, however, is that it was this that R. Tarfon meant: Whosoever puts his
hand below his belly that hand shall be cut off. They said to R. Tarfon, 'If
a thorn stuck in his belly, should he not remove it'? 'No', he replied. 'But
[they said] would not his belly be split'?30 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
to the pit of destruction'.26
MISHNAH. IN THE CASE OF A DEAF,31 AN IMBECILE, A BLIND OR AN INSANE32
WOMAN, IF OTHER WOMEN OF SOUND SENSES ARE AVAILABLE33 THEY ATTEND TO HER,34
AND SHE MAY THEN EAT TERUMAH.
GEMARA. Why should not a DEAF woman make her own examination, seeing that it
was taught: Rabbi stated, A deaf woman was living in our neighbourhood and
not only35 did she examine herself but her friends also on observing a
discharge would show it to her?36 - There it was a woman who could speak
but not hear while here the reference is to one who can neither speak nor
hear; as we have learnt: The deaf person of whom the Sages spoke is always37
one who can neither hear nor speak.38
A BLIND. Why should she not make her own examination and show the
testing-rag to her friend? - R. Jose son of R. Hanina replied: The 'blind'
is no part of the Mishnah.39
OR AN INSANE WOMAN. Is not this exactly the same as IMBECILE?40 This refers
to one whose mind was deranged owing to a disease.
Our Rabbis taught: A priest who is an imbecile may be ritually immersed and
then fed with terumah41 in the evening.42 He must also be watched that he
does not fall asleep.43 If he falls asleep he is deemed unclean44 and if
he does not fall asleep he remains clean. R. Eliezer son of R. Zadok ruled:
He should be provided with a leather bag.45 The Rabbis said to him: 'Would
not this cause heat all the more'? 'According to your view', he replied,
'should an imbecile have no remedy'? 'According to our view', they retorted,
'only if he falls asleep46 is he deemed unclean but if he does not fall
asleep he remains clean, while according to your view there is the
possibility that he might discharge a drop of blood of the size of a mustard
seed and this would be absorbed in the bag'.47
A Tanna taught: It was stated in the name of R. Eleazar, The imbecile is to
be provided with a metal bag. Abaye explained: It must be one of copper, as
we have learnt:48 R. Judah ruled, Those buds of hyssop49 are regarded50
as if they had been made of copper.51
R. Papa remarked: From this52 it may be inferred that breeches53 are
forbidden. But is it not written in Scripture, And thou shalt make them
linen breeches to cover the flesh of their nakedness?54 - That may be
explained as it was taught: To what were the breeches of the priests like?
They were like the knee breeches of horsemen, reaching upwards to the loins
and downwards to the thighs. They also had laces but had no padding either
back or front.55
Abaye stated:
- To Next Folio -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. In the direction of the body.
2.. Cf. Tosaf.
3.. Rab.
4.. Who indulges in the reprehensible practice.
5.. The practice, therefore, could only be condemned but not forbidden.
6.. Lit.,'tells him: Do so'.
7.. Lit., 'and on the morrow'.
8.. MS.M., 'Assi'.
9.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
10.. Ps. V, 5. analogy between the two expressions of 'evil'. Alfasi
(Shab. XIV) inserts, 'R. Eleazar said, What is meant by evil shall not
sojourn with thee? The evil (minded) man shall not sojourn in Thy dwelling'.
11.. So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd. and Alfasi, 'and R.'
12.. Lit., 'what'.
13.. Isa. I, 15.
14.. Ex. XX, 13.
15.. V. Yeb. 47b.
16.. Who apparently commit no crime at all.
17.. They are; while here they are merely described as delaying the advent
of the Messiah.
18.. Lit., 'by way of limbs'.
19.. Var. lec. 'Assi' (Yeb. 62a) 'Joseph' (MS.M.).
20.. The Messiah.
21.. Lit., 'Body', the region inhabited by the souls of the unborn.
22.. Isa. LVII, 16.
23.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF'.
24.. Though the same expression (cf. prev. n.) was used. Sanh. 58b.
25.. Cur. edd. in parenthesis, 'If a thorn stuck in his belly should he
not remove it? He said to them: No'.
26.. Gehenna.
27.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
28.. So that R. Tarfon's statement is to be taken literally.
29.. The 'cutting off' being a mere figure of speech.
30.. By the thorn.
31.. I.e., deaf-mute (v. Gemara infra).
32.. Lit., 'whose mind was deranged'.
33.. Lit., 'they have'.
34.. Lit., 'they prepare them', i.e., make the necessary examination and
supervise the prescribed ritual immersion.
35.. Lit., 'it was not enough'.
36.. Who was an authority on the subject, in order to obtain her opinion
on the colour whether it was that of clean or of unclean blood.
37.. Lit., 'in every place'.
38.. Hag. 2b.
39.. It is a spurious addition.
40.. Apparently it is; why then the repetition?
41.. Which is forbidden to an unclean priest.
42.. Since after due immersion one attains to cleanness at nightfall.
43.. In his sleep under his bedclothes heat might be engendered and this
would cause him to emit semen which would render him unclean and, therefore,
unfit to eat terumah.
44.. Cf. prev. n.
45.. Which can be examined for traces of semen before any terumah is given
to him.
46.. After immersion and after nightfall.
47.. Tosef. Nid. II. As it would thus be lost to sight the priest would be
regarded as clean and terumah would, as a result, be eaten by one who is in
fact unclean; and consequently an offence that is punishable by death (at
the hand of God) would unconsciously be committed.
48.. MS.M. and marg. n. Cur. edd., 'as it was taught'.
49.. Used in connection with the water of purification.
50.. When the water is measured to ascertain whether it contained
sufficient for a sprinkling (cf. supra 9a).
51.. Parah Xli, 5. Sc. as if they did not absorb any water at all; from
which it follows, in support of Abaye's explanation, that copper is a
non-absorbent.
52.. The prohibition of a bag supra on account of the heat it engenders.
53.. Such as engender heat, v. infra.
54.. Ex. XXVIII, 42.
55.. Hanging loosely round the organ the breeches could engender no heat.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:47 pm
From: "Ariadne"
serwad wrote:
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DO NOT MESS WITH IRAN, KIKE!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c6d79a4043be4c6e
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:45 pm
From: "serwad"
Niddah 13b
but from the corona upwards1 it is forbidden.
Rab stated: 'A man who wilfully causes erection should be placed2 under the
ban'. But why did he3 not say, 'This is forbidden'? Because the man4
merely incites his evil inclination against himself.5 R. Ammi, however,
stated: He4 is called a renegade, because such is the art of the evil
inclination: To-day it incites man to do one wrong thing,6 and to-morrow7
it incites him to worship idols and he proceeds to worship them.
There are others who read: R. Ammi8 stated, He who excites himself by
lustful thoughts will not be allowed to enter the division of the Holy One,
blessed be He. For here it is written, Was evil in the sight of the Lord,9
and elsewhere it is written, For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee.10
R.11 Eleazar stated: Who are referred to12 in the Scriptural text, Your
hands are full of blood?13 Those that commit masturbation with their hands.
It was taught at the school of R. Ishmael, Thou shalt not commit adultery14
implies, Thou shalt not practise masturbation either with hand or with foot.
Our Rabbis taught: 'proselytes and those that play with children delay the
advent of the Messiah'. The statement about proselytes may be understood on
the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, 'proselytes are as
hard for Israel to endure as a sore',15 what, however, could be meant by
'those that play with children'?16 If it be suggested: Those that practise
pederasty [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to
stoning?17 If, however, it be suggested: Those that practise onanism
through external contact18 [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving
destruction by flood?17 - The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors
who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose19 stated: The Son of
David20 will not come before all the souls in Guf21 will have been
disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from
Me, and the souls which I have made.22
BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF. The question was raised: Have
we here23 learnt a law or merely an execration? 'Have we here learnt a law'
as in the case where R. Huna cut off one's hand;24 'or merely an
execration'? - Come and hear what was taught: R. Tarfon said, 'If his hand
touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they
said to him,25 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
into the pit of destruction'.26 Now if you concede that we have here27
learnt a law28 one can well understand why they said, 'Would not his belly
be split'; but if you maintain that we have only learnt of an execration,29
what could be meant by [the question] 'His belly be split'? - What then
would you suggest, that we have learnt here a law, would it not suffice, [it
may be objected, that the cutting off shall] not be done on his belly? - The
fact, however, is that it was this that R. Tarfon meant: Whosoever puts his
hand below his belly that hand shall be cut off. They said to R. Tarfon, 'If
a thorn stuck in his belly, should he not remove it'? 'No', he replied. 'But
[they said] would not his belly be split'?30 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
to the pit of destruction'.26
MISHNAH. IN THE CASE OF A DEAF,31 AN IMBECILE, A BLIND OR AN INSANE32
WOMAN, IF OTHER WOMEN OF SOUND SENSES ARE AVAILABLE33 THEY ATTEND TO HER,34
AND SHE MAY THEN EAT TERUMAH.
GEMARA. Why should not a DEAF woman make her own examination, seeing that it
was taught: Rabbi stated, A deaf woman was living in our neighbourhood and
not only35 did she examine herself but her friends also on observing a
discharge would show it to her?36 - There it was a woman who could speak
but not hear while here the reference is to one who can neither speak nor
hear; as we have learnt: The deaf person of whom the Sages spoke is always37
one who can neither hear nor speak.38
A BLIND. Why should she not make her own examination and show the
testing-rag to her friend? - R. Jose son of R. Hanina replied: The 'blind'
is no part of the Mishnah.39
OR AN INSANE WOMAN. Is not this exactly the same as IMBECILE?40 This refers
to one whose mind was deranged owing to a disease.
Our Rabbis taught: A priest who is an imbecile may be ritually immersed and
then fed with terumah41 in the evening.42 He must also be watched that he
does not fall asleep.43 If he falls asleep he is deemed unclean44 and if
he does not fall asleep he remains clean. R. Eliezer son of R. Zadok ruled:
He should be provided with a leather bag.45 The Rabbis said to him: 'Would
not this cause heat all the more'? 'According to your view', he replied,
'should an imbecile have no remedy'? 'According to our view', they retorted,
'only if he falls asleep46 is he deemed unclean but if he does not fall
asleep he remains clean, while according to your view there is the
possibility that he might discharge a drop of blood of the size of a mustard
seed and this would be absorbed in the bag'.47
A Tanna taught: It was stated in the name of R. Eleazar, The imbecile is to
be provided with a metal bag. Abaye explained: It must be one of copper, as
we have learnt:48 R. Judah ruled, Those buds of hyssop49 are regarded50
as if they had been made of copper.51
R. Papa remarked: From this52 it may be inferred that breeches53 are
forbidden. But is it not written in Scripture, And thou shalt make them
linen breeches to cover the flesh of their nakedness?54 - That may be
explained as it was taught: To what were the breeches of the priests like?
They were like the knee breeches of horsemen, reaching upwards to the loins
and downwards to the thighs. They also had laces but had no padding either
back or front.55
Abaye stated:
- To Next Folio -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. In the direction of the body.
2.. Cf. Tosaf.
3.. Rab.
4.. Who indulges in the reprehensible practice.
5.. The practice, therefore, could only be condemned but not forbidden.
6.. Lit.,'tells him: Do so'.
7.. Lit., 'and on the morrow'.
8.. MS.M., 'Assi'.
9.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
10.. Ps. V, 5. analogy between the two expressions of 'evil'. Alfasi
(Shab. XIV) inserts, 'R. Eleazar said, What is meant by evil shall not
sojourn with thee? The evil (minded) man shall not sojourn in Thy dwelling'.
11.. So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd. and Alfasi, 'and R.'
12.. Lit., 'what'.
13.. Isa. I, 15.
14.. Ex. XX, 13.
15.. V. Yeb. 47b.
16.. Who apparently commit no crime at all.
17.. They are; while here they are merely described as delaying the advent
of the Messiah.
18.. Lit., 'by way of limbs'.
19.. Var. lec. 'Assi' (Yeb. 62a) 'Joseph' (MS.M.).
20.. The Messiah.
21.. Lit., 'Body', the region inhabited by the souls of the unborn.
22.. Isa. LVII, 16.
23.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF'.
24.. Though the same expression (cf. prev. n.) was used. Sanh. 58b.
25.. Cur. edd. in parenthesis, 'If a thorn stuck in his belly should he
not remove it? He said to them: No'.
26.. Gehenna.
27.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
28.. So that R. Tarfon's statement is to be taken literally.
29.. The 'cutting off' being a mere figure of speech.
30.. By the thorn.
31.. I.e., deaf-mute (v. Gemara infra).
32.. Lit., 'whose mind was deranged'.
33.. Lit., 'they have'.
34.. Lit., 'they prepare them', i.e., make the necessary examination and
supervise the prescribed ritual immersion.
35.. Lit., 'it was not enough'.
36.. Who was an authority on the subject, in order to obtain her opinion
on the colour whether it was that of clean or of unclean blood.
37.. Lit., 'in every place'.
38.. Hag. 2b.
39.. It is a spurious addition.
40.. Apparently it is; why then the repetition?
41.. Which is forbidden to an unclean priest.
42.. Since after due immersion one attains to cleanness at nightfall.
43.. In his sleep under his bedclothes heat might be engendered and this
would cause him to emit semen which would render him unclean and, therefore,
unfit to eat terumah.
44.. Cf. prev. n.
45.. Which can be examined for traces of semen before any terumah is given
to him.
46.. After immersion and after nightfall.
47.. Tosef. Nid. II. As it would thus be lost to sight the priest would be
regarded as clean and terumah would, as a result, be eaten by one who is in
fact unclean; and consequently an offence that is punishable by death (at
the hand of God) would unconsciously be committed.
48.. MS.M. and marg. n. Cur. edd., 'as it was taught'.
49.. Used in connection with the water of purification.
50.. When the water is measured to ascertain whether it contained
sufficient for a sprinkling (cf. supra 9a).
51.. Parah Xli, 5. Sc. as if they did not absorb any water at all; from
which it follows, in support of Abaye's explanation, that copper is a
non-absorbent.
52.. The prohibition of a bag supra on account of the heat it engenders.
53.. Such as engender heat, v. infra.
54.. Ex. XXVIII, 42.
55.. Hanging loosely round the organ the breeches could engender no heat.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ETHNIC CLEANSING PARTY OF KIKELAND
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/0eaa2aaa60fc5bfa
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:46 pm
From: "serwad"
MOOSE READ TALMUD:
Niddah 13b
but from the corona upwards1 it is forbidden.
Rab stated: 'A man who wilfully causes erection should be placed2 under the
ban'. But why did he3 not say, 'This is forbidden'? Because the man4
merely incites his evil inclination against himself.5 R. Ammi, however,
stated: He4 is called a renegade, because such is the art of the evil
inclination: To-day it incites man to do one wrong thing,6 and to-morrow7
it incites him to worship idols and he proceeds to worship them.
There are others who read: R. Ammi8 stated, He who excites himself by
lustful thoughts will not be allowed to enter the division of the Holy One,
blessed be He. For here it is written, Was evil in the sight of the Lord,9
and elsewhere it is written, For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee.10
R.11 Eleazar stated: Who are referred to12 in the Scriptural text, Your
hands are full of blood?13 Those that commit masturbation with their hands.
It was taught at the school of R. Ishmael, Thou shalt not commit adultery14
implies, Thou shalt not practise masturbation either with hand or with foot.
Our Rabbis taught: 'proselytes and those that play with children delay the
advent of the Messiah'. The statement about proselytes may be understood on
the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, 'proselytes are as
hard for Israel to endure as a sore',15 what, however, could be meant by
'those that play with children'?16 If it be suggested: Those that practise
pederasty [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to
stoning?17 If, however, it be suggested: Those that practise onanism
through external contact18 [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving
destruction by flood?17 - The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors
who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose19 stated: The Son of
David20 will not come before all the souls in Guf21 will have been
disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from
Me, and the souls which I have made.22
BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF. The question was raised: Have
we here23 learnt a law or merely an execration? 'Have we here learnt a law'
as in the case where R. Huna cut off one's hand;24 'or merely an
execration'? - Come and hear what was taught: R. Tarfon said, 'If his hand
touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they
said to him,25 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
into the pit of destruction'.26 Now if you concede that we have here27
learnt a law28 one can well understand why they said, 'Would not his belly
be split'; but if you maintain that we have only learnt of an execration,29
what could be meant by [the question] 'His belly be split'? - What then
would you suggest, that we have learnt here a law, would it not suffice, [it
may be objected, that the cutting off shall] not be done on his belly? - The
fact, however, is that it was this that R. Tarfon meant: Whosoever puts his
hand below his belly that hand shall be cut off. They said to R. Tarfon, 'If
a thorn stuck in his belly, should he not remove it'? 'No', he replied. 'But
[they said] would not his belly be split'?30 'It is preferable', he
replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down
to the pit of destruction'.26
MISHNAH. IN THE CASE OF A DEAF,31 AN IMBECILE, A BLIND OR AN INSANE32
WOMAN, IF OTHER WOMEN OF SOUND SENSES ARE AVAILABLE33 THEY ATTEND TO HER,34
AND SHE MAY THEN EAT TERUMAH.
GEMARA. Why should not a DEAF woman make her own examination, seeing that it
was taught: Rabbi stated, A deaf woman was living in our neighbourhood and
not only35 did she examine herself but her friends also on observing a
discharge would show it to her?36 - There it was a woman who could speak
but not hear while here the reference is to one who can neither speak nor
hear; as we have learnt: The deaf person of whom the Sages spoke is always37
one who can neither hear nor speak.38
A BLIND. Why should she not make her own examination and show the
testing-rag to her friend? - R. Jose son of R. Hanina replied: The 'blind'
is no part of the Mishnah.39
OR AN INSANE WOMAN. Is not this exactly the same as IMBECILE?40 This refers
to one whose mind was deranged owing to a disease.
Our Rabbis taught: A priest who is an imbecile may be ritually immersed and
then fed with terumah41 in the evening.42 He must also be watched that he
does not fall asleep.43 If he falls asleep he is deemed unclean44 and if
he does not fall asleep he remains clean. R. Eliezer son of R. Zadok ruled:
He should be provided with a leather bag.45 The Rabbis said to him: 'Would
not this cause heat all the more'? 'According to your view', he replied,
'should an imbecile have no remedy'? 'According to our view', they retorted,
'only if he falls asleep46 is he deemed unclean but if he does not fall
asleep he remains clean, while according to your view there is the
possibility that he might discharge a drop of blood of the size of a mustard
seed and this would be absorbed in the bag'.47
A Tanna taught: It was stated in the name of R. Eleazar, The imbecile is to
be provided with a metal bag. Abaye explained: It must be one of copper, as
we have learnt:48 R. Judah ruled, Those buds of hyssop49 are regarded50
as if they had been made of copper.51
R. Papa remarked: From this52 it may be inferred that breeches53 are
forbidden. But is it not written in Scripture, And thou shalt make them
linen breeches to cover the flesh of their nakedness?54 - That may be
explained as it was taught: To what were the breeches of the priests like?
They were like the knee breeches of horsemen, reaching upwards to the loins
and downwards to the thighs. They also had laces but had no padding either
back or front.55
Abaye stated:
- To Next Folio -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files
1.. In the direction of the body.
2.. Cf. Tosaf.
3.. Rab.
4.. Who indulges in the reprehensible practice.
5.. The practice, therefore, could only be condemned but not forbidden.
6.. Lit.,'tells him: Do so'.
7.. Lit., 'and on the morrow'.
8.. MS.M., 'Assi'.
9.. Gen. XXXVIII, 10.
10.. Ps. V, 5. analogy between the two expressions of 'evil'. Alfasi
(Shab. XIV) inserts, 'R. Eleazar said, What is meant by evil shall not
sojourn with thee? The evil (minded) man shall not sojourn in Thy dwelling'.
11.. So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd. and Alfasi, 'and R.'
12.. Lit., 'what'.
13.. Isa. I, 15.
14.. Ex. XX, 13.
15.. V. Yeb. 47b.
16.. Who apparently commit no crime at all.
17.. They are; while here they are merely described as delaying the advent
of the Messiah.
18.. Lit., 'by way of limbs'.
19.. Var. lec. 'Assi' (Yeb. 62a) 'Joseph' (MS.M.).
20.. The Messiah.
21.. Lit., 'Body', the region inhabited by the souls of the unborn.
22.. Isa. LVII, 16.
23.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF'.
24.. Though the same expression (cf. prev. n.) was used. Sanh. 58b.
25.. Cur. edd. in parenthesis, 'If a thorn stuck in his belly should he
not remove it? He said to them: No'.
26.. Gehenna.
27.. In the expression of 'OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
28.. So that R. Tarfon's statement is to be taken literally.
29.. The 'cutting off' being a mere figure of speech.
30.. By the thorn.
31.. I.e., deaf-mute (v. Gemara infra).
32.. Lit., 'whose mind was deranged'.
33.. Lit., 'they have'.
34.. Lit., 'they prepare them', i.e., make the necessary examination and
supervise the prescribed ritual immersion.
35.. Lit., 'it was not enough'.
36.. Who was an authority on the subject, in order to obtain her opinion
on the colour whether it was that of clean or of unclean blood.
37.. Lit., 'in every place'.
38.. Hag. 2b.
39.. It is a spurious addition.
40.. Apparently it is; why then the repetition?
41.. Which is forbidden to an unclean priest.
42.. Since after due immersion one attains to cleanness at nightfall.
43.. In his sleep under his bedclothes heat might be engendered and this
would cause him to emit semen which would render him unclean and, therefore,
unfit to eat terumah.
44.. Cf. prev. n.
45.. Which can be examined for traces of semen before any terumah is given
to him.
46.. After immersion and after nightfall.
47.. Tosef. Nid. II. As it would thus be lost to sight the priest would be
regarded as clean and terumah would, as a result, be eaten by one who is in
fact unclean; and consequently an offence that is punishable by death (at
the hand of God) would unconsciously be committed.
48.. MS.M. and marg. n. Cur. edd., 'as it was taught'.
49.. Used in connection with the water of purification.
50.. When the water is measured to ascertain whether it contained
sufficient for a sprinkling (cf. supra 9a).
51.. Parah Xli, 5. Sc. as if they did not absorb any water at all; from
which it follows, in support of Abaye's explanation, that copper is a
non-absorbent.
52.. The prohibition of a bag supra on account of the heat it engenders.
53.. Such as engender heat, v. infra.
54.. Ex. XXVIII, 42.
55.. Hanging loosely round the organ the breeches could engender no heat.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: MURDERING FOR FUN
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cb5ff12b53335f74
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 6 2006 9:50 pm
From: "serwad"
"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:4435E865.77B4A7C@io.com...
> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>>news:4435D41B.40FC77FB@io.com...
>
>>> Is that what your beloved Janjawid do?
>
>> WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT? YOUR NEW INVENTION?
>
> The Janjawid are the genocidal rapist assholes in Darfur. Since
> you've refused to condemn any actions by the Sudanese government
"I REFUSED"? You have to be kidding. Maybe that is why they are killing each
other because I refused to condemn them! Whta a stupid idiotic claim,
I will tell you why they are fighting: because the Israeli arms dealers such
as Semyon Mgilevich and Bout are making millions selling arms to them, and
Zionists do not want the killing to stop on that account!
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