soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:

* Secondary factors why Eyeran wants nukes - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a6b2f655b2a3f198
* Suggested campaign slogan, "Had enough?" - 6 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/22d3fda195c2c625
* Wal Mart to stop gun sales in a third of it's US stores - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3cb577d6ca5d903e
* 24 U.S. CASUALTIES FOR THE Kuait OIL OIL OIL! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/16dca47fc83141c
* Independence of Chechnya in the Long Run - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fecb303268ff2ba9
* Shocking Pictures from Turkey! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/628595681c318dac
* Colorado: Kids Stage Old Glory Walkout. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2f1882ac30dc275
* Republicans in the News - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/55a2a2261257b6b
* "Iran Leader: Israel Will Be Annihilated" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/559ce07c61aadd6
* Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp") - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
* Palestinians to get Russian aid - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3d701135de276b7d
* Generals report Rumsfeld incompetence; Bush responds, "Attaboy, Rummy!" - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f1707ebfbe4b5f38
* Iran issues stark military warning to United States YOU GOTTA *LOVE* IRAN -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7879b0f3adc1feea
* The American Jewish Committe pushes Iran war - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/798b813415643838
* Shias add fuel to hatred with 'gangsta-rap' incitement - 2 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cfdd29c7dd22d1bb
* Some say Iran's weapons come from Russia - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/938d3d0d2a6b5e90

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Secondary factors why Eyeran wants nukes
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a6b2f655b2a3f198
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:11 pm
From: Fred J. McCall

Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:

:Mark Borgerson wrote:
:> In article <nsu042540nmtm5i94p57ah7u3tmmq1obef@4ax.com>,
:> fmccall@earthlink.net says...
:>> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
:>>
:>> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
:>> :>
:>> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> ianparker2@gmail.com wrote: :> :> :Yes but
:>> :> if you have 10,000 centrfuges and a reprocessing facility :>
:>> :> :everyone knows that one could be cobbled together fairly quickly if
:>> :> :> :required. Perhaps that is all that is needed for the desired
:>> :> political :> :pressure. :> :> If you have 10,000 centrifuges (and a
:>> :> bunch of uranium) you don't need :> a reprocessing facility. :> :>
:>> :> The centrifuges are used for enriching uranium. The reprocessing :>
:>> :> facility is for separating plutonium from a nuclear fuel burn. The
:>> :> :> former gives you material that can probably "cobbled together
:>> :> fairly :> quickly" into a (gun-type) bomb if required. The latter
:>> :> gives you :> plutonium, which is a much harder problem to turn into a
:>> :> working :> weapon (and "cobbling" just won't get it). :> :> Please
:>> :> learn something about the technologies behind what you are :> talking
:>> :> about. : :Reprocessing facilities also describes extracting uranium
:>> :> from spent :reactor fuel elements
:>> :>
:>> :> Which has nothing to do with making a bomb, which is what is being
:>> :> talked about. The uranium from fuel rods would need to be further
:>> :> enriched (and there isn't enough of it to do that, generally - you're
:>> :> better off just starting from tons of ore).
:>> :
:>> :nonsense. spent Reactor fuel is already enriched (3-5%), so it is the
:>> :best possible feedstock for the Centrifuge.
:>>
:>> Nope. The nuclear burn process creates uranium isotopes (like U236, I
:>> think - working from memory so that may not be right) that you don't
:>> want in there.
:>
:> While it may not be enriched, reactor waste does contain significant
:> fissionable material--and is enriched in plutonium. However,
:> centrifuges need gaseous material, so there is a lot of complex
:> processing between reactor waste and centrifuge feedstock.
:>> :"A PWR has fuel assemblies of 200-300 rods each, arranged vertically in
:>> :the core, and a large reactor would have about 150-250 fuel assemblies
:>> :with 80-100 tonnes of uranium.
:>> :
:>> :80-100 tons of uranium enriched to 5% is a huge amount of U-235
:>> :even partially spent fuel rods can be about 3% u=235
:>>
:>> But it's hard to get out. Easier to start with ore unless you can
:>> start with a brand new core. Even then, the metal may be locked up in
:>> a form where it's difficult to get back out by design.
:>
:> "Easier to start with the ore" includes the fact that the ore
:> is only moderately radioactive, while the reactor waste is
:> really nasty stuff! Much harder to handle that waste safely
:> than uranium ore.
:
:That is why you have a "reprocessing plant" it is designed to handle
:high level radioactive material and produce low level material suitable
:as feed stock

And this isn't starting to sound harder to you than just taking some
yellowcake, turning it into UF6, running it through your centrifuge
cascade, and converting it back to metal?

Oh, and the uranium you get out of your "reprocessing plant" is much
harder to enrich into bomb grade material because of impurities that
are hard to impossible to separate out. Won't work in a gun-type
weapon, which means you've just complicated your bomb engineering, as
well.

Once again, it's easier to start from ore.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 2:43 pm
From: Vince

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
>
> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
> :>
> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote: :> :>
> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> ianparker2@gmail.com wrote: :> :> :Yes but
> :> :> if you have 10,000 centrfuges and a reprocessing facility :> :>
> :> :everyone knows that one could be cobbled together fairly quickly if
> :> :> :> :required. Perhaps that is all that is needed for the desired
> :> :> political :> :pressure. :> :> If you have 10,000 centrifuges (and
> :> a :> bunch of uranium) you don't need :> a reprocessing facility. :>
> :> :> :> The centrifuges are used for enriching uranium. The
> :> reprocessing :> :> facility is for separating plutonium from a
> :> nuclear fuel burn. The :> :> former gives you material that can
> :> probably "cobbled together :> fairly :> quickly" into a (gun-type)
> :> bomb if required. The latter :> gives you :> plutonium, which is a
> :> much harder problem to turn into a :> working :> weapon (and
> :> "cobbling" just won't get it). :> :> Please :> learn something about
> :> the technologies behind what you are :> talking :> about. :
> :> :Reprocessing facilities also describes extracting uranium :> from
> :> spent :reactor fuel elements :> :> Which has nothing to do with
> :> making a bomb, which is what is being :> talked about. The uranium
> :> from fuel rods would need to be further :> enriched (and there isn't
> :> enough of it to do that, generally - you're :> better off just
> :> starting from tons of ore). : :nonsense. spent Reactor fuel is
> :> already enriched (3-5%), so it is the :best possible feedstock for
> :> the Centrifuge.
> :>
> :> Nope. The nuclear burn process creates uranium isotopes (like U236,
> :> I think - working from memory so that may not be right) that you
> :> don't want in there.
> :>
> :> :"A PWR has fuel assemblies of 200-300 rods each, arranged vertically
> :> in :the core, and a large reactor would have about 150-250 fuel
> :> assemblies :with 80-100 tonnes of uranium. : :80-100 tons of uranium
> :> enriched to 5% is a huge amount of U-235 :even partially spent fuel
> :> rods can be about 3% u=235
> :>
> :> But it's hard to get out. Easier to start with ore unless you can
> :> start with a brand new core. Even then, the metal may be locked up
> :> in a form where it's difficult to get back out by design.
> :>
> :
> :its not hard at all
> :
> : REX
> :
> : The PUREX process can be modified to make a UREX (URanium EXtraction)
> :process which could be used to save space inside high level nuclear
> :waste disposal sites, such as Yucca Mountain, by removing the uranium
> :which makes up the vast majority of the mass and volume of used fuel and
> :recycling it as reprocessed uranium.
> :
> : The UREX process is a PUREX process which has been modified to prevent
> :the plutonium being extracted. This can be done by adding a plutonium
> :reductant before the first metal extraction step. In the UREX process,
> :~99.9% of the Uranium and >95% of Technetium are separated from each
> :other and the other fission products and actinides. The key is the
> :addition of acetohydroxamic acid (AHA) to the extraction and scrub
> :sections of the process. The addition of AHA greatly diminishes the
> :extractability of Plutonium and Neptunium, providing greater
> :proliferation resistance than with the plutonium extraction stage of the
> :PUREX process.
> :
> : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing
>
> I said hard, not impossible. Fuel rod reprocessing is hard, Vinnie.
> That's one reason that so few countries do it.
>
> The fact that there IS a process doesn't mean it is an EASY process.
>
> And after you do what is described above, you still have your U236
> problem.
>
> You CAN make a weapon out of uranium extracted from spent reactor
> fuel, but it's much harder to do than if you start from ore. DOE did
> it once as a 'science project'. It's a much more complex design.
>
> But you will continue to argue about things that you know practically
> nothing about, won't you?

OFCS
this is well understood as a problem when you are down blending

Process Parameters

HEU Feed Assay [wt-% U-235] · [wt-% U-234] · [wt-% U-236]
Weight-percent of the fissile isotope uranium-235 and of the
byproducts uranium-234 and uranium-236 in the uranium contained in the
HEU feed (highly enriched uranium). U-235 assays are > 20% for HEU, by
definition. The assays of HEU currently being downblended are in the 40%
to 90% range. U-234 is a minor isotope contained in natural uranium;
during the enrichment process, its concentration increases even more
than that of U-235. Caution: Upon entry of a value for the U-235 assay,
or the HEU Origin or Tails Assay (see below), the calculator
automatically determines a value for the U-234 assay. In case the
estimated value is inappropriate, it can be overwritten.
U-236 is a byproduct from irradiation in a reactor and may be
contained in the HEU, depending on its manufacturing history. HEU
reprocessed from nuclear weapons material production reactors may
contain U-236 concentrations as high as 25%.

http://www.wise-uranium.org/nfcubh.html

its a well understood problem
You just adjust for it.

Vince

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suggested campaign slogan, "Had enough?"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/22d3fda195c2c625
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:19 am
From: "Kevin"

All parties opposing the horribly incompetent Republicans in the 2006
and 2008 elections need only a two word campaign slogan to remind
voters why they should vote anything but Republican. The slogan? "Had
enough?"

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:31 am
From: "Joseph Welch"

"Kevin" <kevprice1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1145125167.141663.291220@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

> All parties opposing the horribly incompetent Republicans in the 2006
> and 2008 elections need only a two word campaign slogan to remind
> voters why they should vote anything but Republican. The slogan? "Had
> enough?"

The possibilities are endless, really. In any and all debates, the
challenger need only ask the Republican incumbent: "Are you a Bush
Republican"? If they say "yes", they lose. If they say "no", they lose.

--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 2:35 pm
From: "Rat Senator Russ Slimemold"

Yeah we have !

Friday, April 14, 2006 11:42 p.m. EDT
Top 'Ethics' Democrat Under Fire for Finances

The House ethics committee's top Democrat, under fire from Republicans, said
Friday he's unaware of any errors in his financial disclosures the past nine
years.

Rep. Alan Mollohan, D-W.Va., provided a detailed explanation of his
investments a week after a conservative group questioned the accuracy of his
annual financial reporting. Republican campaign officials called for his
resignation from the ethics panel, but Mollohan refused to step down.

The allegations could have an impact on the ethics committee's ability to
investigate wrongdoing and could be a factor in this year's congressional
elections.

The committee has been unable to launch new investigations because its five
Democrats and five Republicans have blocked each other from moving forward.
The partisan split may become more bitter with GOP calls for Mollohan to
leave the panel.

The allegations also allow Republicans to counter a major Democratic
campaign theme: that majority Republicans have allowed a "culture of
corruption" in the House and Senate.

Congressional Democrats want the ethics panel to investigate lawmakers who
had ties to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff, to determine whether the
members broke the rules by providing legislative help in return for free
trips, restaurant meals and seats in arena skyboxes.

Federal prosecutors are conducting criminal investigations into the same
conduct.

Besides the allegations against Mollohan, the senior Democrat on the House
Judiciary Committee - John Conyers of Michigan - stands accused by former
staff members of misusing his office by turning them into baby sitters for
his children.

His office said in a statement that the baby sitting allegations refer to
events nearly a decade ago, even though they were only recently raised in
public. The statement said Conyers cooperated with the committee when it
raised questions about the allegations two years ago, but never heard back
from the panel.

The National Legal and Policy Center - a conservative nonprofit organization
that promotes ethics in government through research, education and legal
action - said last week it had filed a complaint in February with federal
prosecutors, alleging Mollohan consistently undervalued and omitted assets
in his annual reporting. The U.S. attorney's office in Washington refused to
confirm whether it is investigating Mollohan.

Mollohan said the value of his property investments - owned by him and his
wife - increased sharply because of rising values in Washington, D.C., and
the North Carolina shore since 2000. The lawmaker said the value was offset
by large mortgages, and the couple borrowed against their existing holdings
to acquire new property.

In 2001, Mollohan added, the couple increased their holdings after the
lawmaker inherited a share of his father's real estate holdings in West
Virginia.

Mollohan said the Legal and Policy Center appeared to assert that he should
have valued his holdings without regard to his liabilities.

The lawmaker said he can't address allegations that he made 250 errors in
his reporting since 1996, because the center has not provided him with
details.

He added, "Any claim whatsoever that these investments are in any way
related to my actions as a member of Congress is categorically false."

Mollohan said his financial reports are prepared by a respected accounting
firm.

"I would never be so bold as to say that there are no errors whatsoever in
the 24 annual financial disclosure statements I have filed as a member of
Congress. "What I will say, however, is that if there are any errors in
those forms, they were inadvertent, and I am convinced that they are not
material - that is, those forms provide an accurate picture of the
investments, income and liabilities of my wife and me...."

Mollohan's 2000 report indicated he had assets worth between $170,012 to
$562,000 and liabilities between $170,000 and $465,000. The disclosure
reports let congressmen report their finances within broad ranges.

His 2004 report indicated he had assets of $6.3 million to $24.9 million and
liabilities of $3.66 million to $13.5 million.

© 2006 Associated Press.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 1:46 pm
From: old hoodoo

Kevin wrote:

> All parties opposing the horribly incompetent Republicans in the 2006
> and 2008 elections need only a two word campaign slogan to remind
> voters why they should vote anything but Republican. The slogan? "Had
> enough?"
>

A major problem with your theory. There are only two viable parties
being represented in the general elections....and the public has
had enough of both parties....hence no one to vote for. Unfortunately
the hurdles that independents and third parties have to jump to get to
the elections are virtually insurmountable.

The only resonable option is to stop voting for the lesser of two evils
so both parties will scramble to the middle with higher quality
candidates and more resonable platforms.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:05 pm
From: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"

"old hoodoo" <alflags@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:%bb0g.36145$gE.32137@dukeread06...
>
>
> Kevin wrote:
>
>> All parties opposing the horribly incompetent Republicans in the 2006
>> and 2008 elections need only a two word campaign slogan to remind
>> voters why they should vote anything but Republican. The slogan? "Had
>> enough?"
>>
>
> A major problem with your theory. There are only two viable parties being
> represented in the general elections....and the public has
> had enough of both parties....hence no one to vote for. Unfortunately
> the hurdles that independents and third parties have to jump to get to the
> elections are virtually insurmountable.
>

vote for me, I will fix every problem in this country.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:05 pm
From: beachshark1@yahoo.com

Actually, that's a valid and realistic point. While the Democrats are
not nearly as bad as the Republicans (who are horribly incompetent on
all levels), Kerry didn't impress me much either in that last election.
And, while I think Al Gore is unusually intelligent (in the "big
picture" sense), he is anything but a natural politician. We did have
eight quality years under Clinton, which was a huge contrast to the
last five or so years under the Republican Bush. So, I'm just hopeful
the Democrats put up a good candidate, but, like you, I won't be
surprised if they don't.

I'm hesitant to get behind the independent candidate idea. I think it
can work in favor of the Republicans, as it did in 2000 (Nader drew
enough votes that would have otherwise gone to Gore to result in Bush's
election). I'm not very impressed with Nader, nor, really, any other
third party candidate I've seen.

Gosh, leadership in America is a mess, isn't it? Of all the people in
this nation, why don't we have a system to identify quality leadership?
I think part of it is that the type of person that it takes to run for
president is not likely to be the type of person that we'd actually
enjoy having lead us. There have been a few exceptions, of course.

Just the other day I was reading a thought-provoking newspaper article
by former Congressman Lee Hamilton, a Democrat, and came away thinking
that this country might be well served having such an insightful man as
leader. He was well respected by both parties in congress, and appears
to be of high moral character. Reminds me a bit of Harry Truman. (I'm
not suggesting him as a candidate, since I actually know very little
about him... and, he's out of politics and retired, and may be getting
up in the years).

I want to feel good about my country again. I want a person of high
character and dignity, with wisdom and leadership skills (the opposite
of what we have presently in the White House). I'm just not confident
that we'll actually elect someone who meets that criteria. Frankly,
I'm discouraged but haven't given up on us.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wal Mart to stop gun sales in a third of it's US stores
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3cb577d6ca5d903e
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:24 am
From: "The Lone Weasel"

Sandslurper said:

People discuss self defense as if you have as much time to do it in as
they have to discuss it. In reality, you have a flash to identify the
threat and react. Whether or not you actually pull the trigger is
something that you have a microsecond to decide and a lifetime
to live with.

The Lone Weasel said:

You idiots can't even figure out the Second Amendment when you have all
the historical and legal information freely available - why the hell
should anybody trust you with split-second decisions?

POINT PROVEN!

--

Yours truly,

The Lone Weasel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 24 U.S. CASUALTIES FOR THE Kuait OIL OIL OIL!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/16dca47fc83141c
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:25 pm
From: "doesitmatteranymore"

of course the rational that the cia ok the war, while putting israel spies
in jail means not a thing. That the us first invaded Kuwait and Iraq to
remove get this Iraqis for kuwait.( you know OIL???????
Finally if the US cared about Israel , why didn
t they go after Iran , the country that was building the real weapons of
mass destruction and not the one that didn't?

"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:RD50g.30547$Jk3.1056@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Marines Suffer 2 Dead, 22 Wounded In Iraq
> AP
>
>
> APRIL 14, 2006
>
> (AP) BAGHDAD - Two U.S. Marines were killed and 22 wounded - two of them
> critically -in fighting in western Iraq, the U.S. military said Saturday.
> It was the biggest number of American casualties reported from a single
> engagement in weeks.
>
> A U.S. statement said the casualties were suffered Thursday as a result of
> "enemy action" in Anbar province but gave no specific location or details
> of the fighting.
>
> One Marine was killed "at the scene of the attack," the statement said.
> Another Marine died at a medical facility in Taqqadum, it added.
>
> Eight of the wounded were flown to the main U.S. hospital in Balad. Two
> were listed in critical condition and six were reported as stable, the
> statement said. The others were taken to a U.S. clinic at Camp Fallujah,
> where four were hospitalized for observation.
>
> "Our hearts go out to the families of the dead and wounded Marines," said
> Marine spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Salas. "Our wounded Marines are receiving
> the best care available, and we look forward to their speedy recovery."
>
> U.S. casualties have begun to rise this month following a sharp drop in
> March, which saw the lowest number of American dead in Iraq since February
> 2004. Last month, 31 U.S. service members died in Iraq, but fatalities in
> April have already passed 40.
>
> Meanwhile, dozens of Iraqi police remained missing and nine were dead
> after insurgents ambushed their convoy Thursday evening as they left a
> U.S. base where they had picked up new vehicles, Iraqi and U.S. officials
> said.
>
> Brig. Gen. Abbas Maadal complained that the Americans refused to allow the
> police to spend the night at the base, just north of the capital. But U.S.
> spokesman Lt. Col. Barry Johnson said no such request had been made and
> that the Iraqis had not asked for American troops to guard the convoy.
>
> The attack, the deadliest against police here in months, began about 7:30
> p.m. Thursday as a convoy of 109 police was traveling through a sparsely
> populated area near the Taji base heading back to Najaf, 100 miles to the
> south, Maadal said.
>
> Police heard cries of "Allahu akbar," or God is great, and "long live
> jihad" broadcast by loudspeaker from a nearby mosque, Maadal said.
> Suddenly insurgents, including some women, opened fire and triggered a
> roadside bomb.
>
> Maadal said 37 policemen returned to Najaf late Friday and about 20 more
> were en route. About 40 remained unaccounted for. At least nine policemen
> were killed and three of the 12 vehicles were heavily damaged, Johnson
> said. One insurgent was wounded and five were arrested, he added.
>
> Although no U.S. troops were with the Iraqi convoy when it came under
> attack, Johnson said American forces responded with helicopter gunships
> and ground troops.
>
> "Once the attack occurred we did respond," he said. "We helped engage and
> brought this situation under control."
>
> A U.S. patrol had passed along the same route shortly before the Iraqis
> and called for help when they heard the firing, Johnson said.
>
> It was unclear why the insurgents allowed the Americans to pass by without
> attacking them. In recent months, insurgents have shifted their attacks to
> Iraqi forces, which have less firepower than the Americans.
>
> The overwhelming majority of police in Najaf are Shiites, and the area
> where the attack occurred is populated mostly by Sunnis.
>
> Sectarian violence has worsened in Iraq since the Feb. 22 bombing of a
> Shiite shrine in Samarra. At least 11 people were killed Friday, including
> four who died in a pair of roadside bombings outside two Sunni mosques in
> Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, police said.
>
> One civilian died when a suicide bomber targeted a British patrol south of
> Basra, wounding four Britons, police and British authorities said. Two
> brothers were also gunned down in front of their elderly mother, who was
> wounded when assailants stormed into their home in a mostly Shiite area of
> Baghdad, police said.
>
> In the northern city of Mosul, at least seven people were wounded in
> another suicide car bomb attack on a police station, police said. Police
> saw the vehicle coming and fired at the driver, preventing him from
> entering the compound, an official said.
>
> The others died in bombings and a shooting in Baghdad and Mosul, police
> said.
>
> Delays in forming a new national unity government four months after
> parliament elections has sharpened sectarian divisions.
>
> Sunni and Kurdish opposition to the Shiite choice of Prime Minister
> Ibrahim al-Jaafari for another term has blocked progress toward a new
> government.
>
> Leaders of the Shiite alliance, the dominant bloc in the legislature, said
> they would attend Monday's parliament session, called to break the
> political logjam. Shiite politicians had earlier suggested they would
> boycott the session unless the dispute over al-Jaafari as well as other
> political posts that require parliamentary approval were resolved first.
>
> But Shiite leaders said Friday they would attend even if no agreement had
> been reached on al-Jaafari or the other posts.
>
> "We will meet Saturday and Sunday to discuss the matters of the prime
> minister nomination and the distribution of key posts," said Sabah
> al-Saedi, a Shiite politician. "We are going to attend Monday, regardless
> of what happens at the internal meetings."
>
> Ridha Jawad Taqi, a leading figure of the biggest Shiite party, also said
> the alliance plans to attend Monday's meeting.
>
> In an interview Friday with a British television station, al-Jaafari
> repeated that he would not step down.
>
> "I was the legitimate and democratic choice," he told Britain's Channel 4
> News. "I wouldn't have accepted the responsibility if I thought it was
> against the will of the people. I don't see how I could repay my people's
> faith in me by letting them down."
>
> Although the parliament session may produce no deals at all, it is seen as
> a sign that the parties are committed to forming a unity government.
> Boycotting it would make the Shiites appear obstructionists.
>
> Voters chose the 275-member assembly on Dec. 15, but the legislature met
> briefly only once last month. The lack of progress has frustrated Iraqis,
> especially as steady violence - much of it sectarian - continues to claim
> hundreds of lives and threatens to push the country into a large-scale
> civil war.
>
> © 2006 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved
>
>
> http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/topstories_story_104190642.html
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Independence of Chechnya in the Long Run
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/fecb303268ff2ba9
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:28 am
From: mtodorov_69@yahoo.com

// First I have to present a disclaimer about my origin.

// I am only 50% Croat (by my mother's side). I am listed
// as Croat on census only to keep my job and status. Since
// 2001 even that did not help. So I sort of repented from
// this hypocrisy, which is not so new but goes back to
// 1996 when I first listed myself as person of
// "UNDETERMINED NATIONALITY" in my postgradute index
// (I never finished those studies later to the time of
// writing).

vkarlamov@yahoo.com wrote:
> mtodorov_69@yahoo.com wrote:

> > You seem to be forgetting Serbian enterprise that killed/murdered 1 in
> > 10 Bosnians in Bosnia. That is quite impartial, isn't it?

> First of all, saying that Serbs killed "1 in 10 Bosnians in Bosnia" is
> a lie. Just as your earlie lie about 1 in 5 Chechens killed by Russians
> in the last war.

The time to decrease number of victims was before the killing, now it's
sort of futile, isn't it? (I trusted the independent reports.)

> Second, we are not talking about Serbs, are we? Serbs and Bosnians are
> quite scared and hateful peoples. Not as hateful as Croats and
> Albanians, but still a very sad bunch of folks.
>
> Let's leave Serbs and Bosnians to be. You are a Croat, I am a
> Russian-American. You posted accusations against Rusisans for their
> mistreatment of Chechens. I am amazed that a representative of the most
> genocidal and hateful nation on Earth would have the gall to accuse
> others. You know the expression that people, who live in galss houses,
> shouldn't throw stones, haven't you?

I said above that I am only of to 50% a Croat, but what you said above
explains a lot of what happened to me.

> > Truly, to reach any solution, we must get over "mine truth, your truth"
> > syndrome and see what really happened. Croats are not innocent
> > infants, but you make Serbs like Arkan and Milosevic seem like a
> > victim of genocide?
>
> Arkan and Milosevic weren't victims. They didn't even live in Krajina.
> It was something like 400 000 innocent Croatians of Serb ethnicity,
> living in Krajina in Croatia, who were your victims.

I was in 1995 drafted to "Storm" operation and I see what you
are talking about. I was sent home because of an incident of pulling
weapon on my own soldier, but before that I saw that Croats are
not angels. We trashed many houses completely just to stay
overnight, true. I witnessed POWs molested. It was so simple to
do whatever to powerless "Serbochetniks".

Tudjman's people wanted to make sure reconcilliation is impossible.
That's why all the houses were burned, but I would like you to
trust me this happened AFTER I left Krajina. While we were
advancing I witnessed only scarce villages crushed with
artillery. Not what happened after.

This is a black spot in my record, this Storm. But believe me
I would rather hide and escape it if I had a place to go. My own
father has dragged me to go there. It was more profitable to
have a (even deceased) war hero in family than a coward.
Or some peacemaker.

I was lucky. I only ended up in a nuthouse few times a few
weeks with a F20. There are people who lost legs, arms
or life.

> > And they only wanted to erradicate Islamic threat
> > from the soil of Europe. What an ignorant man I am ...

> Well, I guess Croats and Arkan agree in their hatred for Bosnian
> Muslims. You do know that Croats fought against Bosnian Muslims as
> well?

I know this for certain. Believe me. This has put me in the
middle in 1990s.

> But what does this have to do with Russia?

Nothing. Except that Russian Duma sent envoy to Milosevic's
funeral, and never to pay respect to Srebrenica.

But I don't look at Russian nation through that, I admire
Pushkin, Dostoyevski, Gagarin ...

> > > > Though Chechnyans are Muslims, I will quote Christian Bible in this
> > > > moment:
> > > >
> > > > "Whoever shuts his ears from the cry of the oppressed,
> > > > he will cry too and no one will listen."
> >
>
> The Bible also said "Only he, who is himself without a sin, may cast a
> first stone".

I see you point. But I am not speaking in the name of Croatia, I am
speaking as a free world's citizen, if that's not presumptious.

> > > You are from Croatia? Great! Then you must be an expert on genocides.
> > > Has your grandpa told you what was his personal favorite way to
> > > exterminate Jews, Gypsies and Serbs in Nazi Croatia?
> > >
> > > Another question. After the genocides of 1940s and 1990s, there are
> > > virtually no Jews left alive in Croatia. Are all the Serbs gone as well
> > > or do you guys need another round of genocides before you can declare
> > > Croatia truly "serb-frei" (serb-free)?
> > >
> > > Also, I hear some top Croat leaders are finally standing trial at the
> > > Hague Tribunal for the Crimes Against Humanity for their role in the
> > > horrible Croat anti-Serb genocide in Krajina in mid-90s. What are their
> > > names and their alleged roles in this genocide? Any chance that the
> > > rest of Croat leaders will join them in the Hague soon?
> >
> > About my grandpa: he was killed about 1943. On the wrong side.
> > I like to think he only wanted to defend his village from Serbian
> > Chetniks and then joined the wrong opposite side: Croatian
> > Ustashe.
>
> You mean, he was part of the Croat Nazi regime? Did he exterminate only
> Serbs, or was he one of those who exterminated Jews and Gypsies as
> well? I don't want to pick on your grandpa. I just want to point out
> to you the crimes of your own nation.

Frankly, I don't know. I hear he never went far from his village, that
was surrounded by Serbs that joined Chetniks instead Partisans.
Probably there weren't too many Jews or Gypsies there. But I cannot
be sure. There was always a wall of silence around him, whenever
I asked.

> > That was a troubled time and it wasn't hard to make
> > wrong choice.

> Aha. And the current times in Chechnya aren't troubled times?

Sure they are. They bring up the best and the worst on the surface,
whatever man has inside...

> > But I am not happy about any crime committed against Serbs. It
> > did not make them any better, and it did not make us any better
> > for sure.

> Good for you.

It actually does not make me happier, since I am identified with
the government that has subdued me and that discriminates me.
I am not HDZ (nationalist) voter, on last elections I voted for
SDP (social democrats, former communist party).

> > I was raised in Tito's (not Milosevic's) Yugoslavia, and I was taught
> > unaligned movement policy, the importance of non-nuclear, not-rich
> > third world, which under Tito has risen into formidable force.

> Ddidn't Tito also teach you to love each other and live in one united
> Yugoslavia? Why did you guys have to betray Tito's teachings and start
> separatism, re-balkanizing the Balkans? You didn't like it that your
> language was called "Serbo-Croatian" and not "Croatio-Serbian"? Why
> couldn't Catholic Yugoslavs live in peace and friendship with Greek
> Orthodoxes the way do Ukrainians?

True. But it never worked. Suppressing ethnicity did little good, and
the
good did not survive temptations. It created the space for all kind of
Tudjmans and Milosevics climb up on cheap ethnic sentimentality
and endangeredness.

But even former communists SDP have abandoned Tito's policy of
unalignment, and want to join NATO. There is no space left in
Croatia for independent thought, not in media and not in Croatia.
Selected players are reading the scripts given from above.
I guess projecting the evil in Croatia on Krajina Serbs and expelling
them did not work all that successful in the long run, did it?

> > I think I should maintain or restore unaligned policy, because
> > unalignment is in fact impartiality. Jesus is impartial and God
> > is impartial, for one.
>
> Unaligned? Croatia is hardly neutral, isn't it?

I am sick of being hostage of a denaturalized regime.
I am determined in opposition. Or resignation.

> > This means that I should be able to see both Russian story and
> > Chechen story and see the truth in between.

> Just leave Russia and Chechnya alone. Chechnya is becoming more
> peaceful. The problem will hopefully disappear the way the problem in
> Northern Ireland did.

I certainly hope so. Then maybe some referendum would not choose
the most radical Chechens, but those who could deal with authonomy
/independence without revanshism or extermism, respecting the
rigths of their own minorities, even Russian one. In this way I
wanted to imply that Chechens did not select what's best for them,
and I don't blame them, because I have also selected wrong choices
out of fear.

We're only human after all.

> > Chechens killed Russians, that's very bad.
> >
> > Russians killed 1 in 5 Chechens,
>
> That's a lie. And even if Russians did kill 1 in 5 Chechens in
> Chechnya, there are still 4 in 5 Chechens living there right now. But 5
> in 5 Serbs are gone from Krajina.

> Why do you insist on rehashing old Russian crimes but ask me to forget
> about old Croat crimes?

Good point.

It's not that simple. Most Croats will rather live in denial and
worshiping
of their own victim carisma, when even notorious slaughterers like
Jure and Boban are praised as heros. I am sorry. They believe what
they choose, I cannot coerce them into believing otherwise.

Not being a psychiatrist, for sure I cannot.

> > that's something even the
> > Bosnians did not face. And we all mourned for Srebrenica. I believe
> > Chechens have the right to decide to be a nation of their own,
> > according to the principle of self-determination of nations, and that
> > they have the right for freedom.

> When you Croats return all Serbs to Krajina and let them decide to make
> Krajina a "nation of their own, according to the principle of
> self-determination of nations, and that
> they have the right for freedom" - then we'll talk.
>
> But until Croatia has not given Krajina back to Serb refugess, you
> better mind your own business and instead of trying to marshal support
> for far-away Chechnya, try to marshal support for the Serbs who were
> ethnically cleansed out of your own Croatia.

I will be honest: I was ambiguous on this. I wanted Serbian right for
return,
but I am just not sure if I would be doin them a favor. Some were
killed
after return. Others will not find job, or have Tudjman's Croats in
their
homes. Tudjman's Croats are a caste well above me, so I am basically
powerless.

They certainly have the right for their property and their heritage
in Croatia. But in order to help them, I would have to see some
repentance
for what was done by them and by Serbs in 1991-99.

A clear distinction of theirs from that policy. I cannot defend
Milosevic's
policy, only right for return.

Do you see my point?

> > They need a right leader or leaders instead of those who were
> > assassined, of course.
> >
> > But this is all probably futile, since I am not sure they can read
> > Internet and write to their own newsgroup.
>
> I assure you they can. They even have their own web sites. I know that
> you Croats think that Chechens are ignorant, backward and retarded.
> They aren't. I assure you that even without your trivial advice,
> Chechen rebel leaders know how to organize their fight. Chechen leaders
> make up a huge part of the whole Al Qaeda leadership. The best Al Qaeda
> generals are Chechens. The elite Al Qaeda guards are all Chechens. Al
> Qaeda has organized (with the help of Georgians, Kurds and Americans)
> highly sophisticated network for producing chemical weapons of mass
> destruction (ricin) to poison and terorrize Russian civilians. You
> Croats have nothing to teach Chechens and Al Qaeda as to how best
> terrorize Russians.

Messing with biochemical weapons proves they have a poor leadership,
and their leaders do not know how to organize a fight. First, trying
to defend a city against Russian army that can mobilize army
of few millions is futile Tito would never have done that. He would
play partisan tactics. Hit and run.

> > Russian politicians need a scape-goat to put all their sins on and
> > cast it into wilderness to Azazel, and Chechens have readilly fallen
> > into every trap that was on their way, leading to a totally destroyed
> > ethnical corpus. The best in Chechens was killed and it will not
> > grow back for decades.

> At least they can eventually grow back, unlike the Krajina Serbs.

I hoep so. Krajina Serbs will probably eventually return. If
SDP is elected, I suppose. I don't long for their land, I don't know
how to live in those areas. If only they did not put Draza Mihailovich
as saint few days ago in a church of theirs, right now I would not
seem such a traitor defending their rights.

There's someone living very good from this ethnic hatred, and
profit is not abandoned that easily. Even the churches
profit from ethnic melancholy, when they cannot assemble
real believers together. Thiose ran away when the corrupted
regimes were supported in exchange of favors (more land
to control).

> > If you want to say that world full of genocides will justify you
> > for one, you could as well be wrong. Once upon a time, big
> > policy interests will be obsoleted, and the history will judge you.

> Only after it judges you, Croats, along with your buddies Americans,
> Albanains, and Turks.

The bottom line is that we'll all be judged by history.
And by God.

> > My ancestors (on the grandpa's line) the Turks have done
> > wrong to Armenians, and to many other nations. It is time
> > to admit that wrong and say it was wrong. We committed
> > genocide. There have been better ways to deal with the
> > problems.

> Good for you. But you are not a Turkish citizen, so you have no power
> to rectify the wrongs committed there. Why don't you delay worrying
> about Chechens and first do something to return Serbs to Krajina? I
> heard many of these people are still living in refugee camps and would
> love ot return to Krajina and call it their home once again.

No, I am not Turkish citizen, only a descendant. This gives the
part of the blame, if not rights.

> > I repeat, killing is the problem of this world, not the answer.
> >
> > Not much to add.

> I agree. So do something about your own country's wrongs against
> Krajina Serbs.

ANd you do something for Chechens' rights, and I will call this
a deal.

Peace and good,
Mirsad Todorovac
Zagreb, Croatia

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shocking Pictures from Turkey!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/628595681c318dac
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:27 pm
From: "Ali Asker"

"Ilgaz Ocal" <ilgaz_ocal@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:4abst8Fs8juoU1@individual.net...
> On 2006-04-14 22:54:59 +0300, "Ali Asker" <pasa_asker@kurdistan.kd> said:
>
>> The village guard : Turkish army used chemical weapon
>
> Chemical weapons are weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and they are not
> suitable to kill 10 people on open fields.
>
> Ask any army officer, whatever side you pick.

I KNEW YOU WERE FUCKEN TURKISH SCUMBEG WHO WORKS FOR THE TURKISH NATIONALIST
INTELIGANCE AND NOW YOU EVEN ADMITED FUCKEN EXPERT ON CHEMICAL ATTACKS TO
THE CIVILANS AND THE KURDISH FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!!

LOOK AT THIS PICTURES AGAIN YOU DIRTY MONGOLOID ASIAN MONKEY CALLED *tURk*

http://www.turkiyegercegi.net/operasyonda_kimyasal_silah_resimleri.html

>
> Ilgaz
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Colorado: Kids Stage Old Glory Walkout.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2f1882ac30dc275
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 2:29 pm
From: Bob LeChevalier

I'm@nospam.net (Way Back Jack) wrote:
>On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:47:37 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
><lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
>
>>I'm@nospam.net (Way Back Jack) wrote:
>>>Whiggers aren't white.
>>
>>Since there is no such thing as a "white" or a "whigger", racist, that
>>is obvious - and meaningless.
>
>If there is only the human race, then your use of "racism" is
>misplaced.

No. "racism" is a belief that a nonexistent difference is important.
Beliefs don't have to reflect reality, and yours is so out of step
with reality as to be a very bad joke.

>And while you're at it, stop campaigning for continuance of 20 extra
>points for blacks on college entrance exams,

When you stop beating your wife three times daily, I'll consider it.

lojbab

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republicans in the News
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/55a2a2261257b6b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:37 am
From: "Kevin"

Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition
and its "family values." Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife.
Said "We can't forgive what occurred between the President and
Lewinsky." In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a
prostitute and attempted to flee the scene.

Charles Canady, Congressman (R-Florida), Judiciary Committee member.
Lied to his constituents about his adulterous affair with Sharon
Becker, which caused her divorce.

Lincoln Chafee, Republican Senator from Rhode Island, admitted former
cocaine user.

Helen Chenoweth, Congresswoman (R-Id.). Admitted to a six-year
adulterous affair with a married associate. In 1995, Chenoweth had
denied the affair when asked about it by The Spokane Spokesman-Review,
but now she claims a pardon from a higher authority: "I've asked for
God's forgiveness, and I've received it," she revealed.

Keola Childs, Republican County Councilman from Hawaii, pleaded guilty
to sexual assault in the first degree for molesting a male child.

Kevin Coan, Republican St. Louis Election Board official, arrested and
charged with trying to buy sex from a 14-year-old girl whom he met on
the Internet.

Roy Cohn, continually condemned gays and gay rights. Was a closet gay
who died of AIDS.

Dan Crane, Republican Congressman from Illinois, married, father of
six. Had sex with a minor working as a congressional page.

Paul Crouch Televangelist, Former President of Trinity Broadcasting
Network (TBN). Paid $425,000 in hush money in an attempt to cover up a
gay affair.

Adelphia Communications Corp.: Donated large sums of money to some of
the most conservative members of Congress. They are also the first
cable company to offer hard-core adult movies to subscribers.

Edison Misla Aldarondo, Republican legislator from Puerto Rico, was
sentenced to 13 years in prison for molestation of his daughter and her

friend for eight-year period starting when they were 9.

Randal David Ankeney, Republican activist from Colorado, arrested on
suspicion of sexual assault on a child with force. He faces 6 charges
related to getting a 13-year-old girl stoned on pot and then having sex

with her. Source Also accused of sexually assaulting another girl.

Dick Armey (R-Texas), former professor, has been accused by The Dallas
Observer of sexually harassing female students.

Jim Bakker, televangelist with Pat Robertson at Robertson's Christian
Broadcasting network. Committed adultery with Jessica Hahn [1] and then

used charitable donations to pay her hush money[2]. Fellow
televangelists say he's gay. [3][4]Indicted on 23 federal charges of
fraud, tax evasion, and racketeering [5].

Bob Barr, Republican Congressman from Georgia. Sponsored the anti-gay
Defense of Marriage Act, saying "The flames of hedonism, the flames of
narcissism, the flames of self-centered morality are licking at the
very foundation of our society, the family unit." Was married three
times. Paid for his second wife's abortion. Failed to pay child support

to the children of his first two wives and while married to his third
and present wife was photographed licking whipped cream off of
strippers at his inaugural party.

Merrill Robert Barter, Republican County Commissioner from Maine,
pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

Robert Bauman, Republican congressman and anti-gay activist from
Maryland, was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked
up at a gay bar.

Parker J. Bena, Republican activist and Bush Elector from Virginia,
pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography (including children
as young as 3 years old) on his home computer and was sentenced to 30
months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

William Bennett, Drug Czar under George H. W. Bush, compulsive gambler
who has had to wire as much as $1.4 million to cover gambling losses in

a 2 month period. NY Press Article | Washington Monthly Article

Louis Beres, chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon. 3 of his
family members accuse him of molesting them when they were pre-teens.
Editor and Publisher article

Howard L. Brooks, Republican legislative aide and advisor to a
California assemblyman, was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy
and possession of child pornography.

John Bolton Bush's appointee ambassador to United Nations, corroborated

allegations that Mr. Bolton's first wife, Christina Bolton, was
forced to engage in group sex have not been refuted by the State
Department.

Mike Bowers Former State Attorney General of Georgia, prosecuted the
famous "Bowers vs. Hardwick" case, based on Georgia anti-sodomy laws.
Admitted to a 10-year adulterous affair.

Pat Buchanan Presidential candidate, media talking-head. His campaign
refused to confirm or deny whether Pat has had chlamydia or any other
venereal diseases.

Andrew Buhr, Republican politician, former committeeman for Hadley
Township Missouri, was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy
with a 13-year old boy.

Jeffrey Buley (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/36931.htm), New
York Republican Party's top lawyer, and senior political adviser to
Gov. Pataki (R), arrested for assaulting his wife in a drunken rage.
They have two young children.

Ted Bundy campaigned for the Republican Party. Infamous serial rapist
who murdered 16 women.

Jim Bunn Congressman of Oregon: With his success due in great part to
support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat,
then immediately ditched his wife (and mother of his five children),
married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll for the
unheard-of salary of $97,500.

John Allen Burt, Republican anti-abortion activist from Pensacola,
Florida, convicted of sexually molesting a 15 year old girl at the home

for troubled girls that he ran.

Dan Burton, Republican Congressman from Indiana who, while married,
fathered a child by another woman.

George W. Bush, Republican President, accused in a criminal complaint
and lawsuit of raping Margie Schoedinger, who was later suicided.
Accused by Tammy Phillips, a former stripper quoted in 2000 saying she
had an affair with Bush that had ended in 1999.

John Butler, Republican activist, was charged with criminal sexual
assault on a teenage girl.

Richard A. Dasen Sr., Republican benefactor of conservative Christian
groups, convicted of sexual abuse of children, promotion of
prostitution and several counts of solicitation, enough to add up to a
sentence of 126 years in prison. Investigators estimated that he spent
up to $5,000,000 on prostitutes.

Richard A. Delgaudio, Republican fundraiser and Bush pioneer, was found

guilty of child porn charges.

Peter Dibble, Republican legislator from Connecticut pleaded no contest

to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

Brian J. Doyle, Deputy Press Secretary for U.S. Department of Homeland
Security. On March 12, 2006, Doyle contacted a 14-year-old girl whose
profile was posted on the Internet, and initiated a sexually explicit
conversation with her. The girl was actually an undercover Polk County
Sheriff s Computer Crimes detective. Doyle knew that the girl was 14
years old, and he told her who he was and that he worked for the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security. During future online chats, Doyle gave

the undercover detective posing as a 14-year-old girl his office phone
number and his government-issued cell phone number, so that they could
have telephone conversations, in addition to their online chatting.
Doyle used the Internet to send hard-core pornographic movie clips to
the girl and used the AOL Instant Messenger chat service to have
explicit sexual conversations with her.

Nicholas Elizondo, Republican director of the "Young Republican
Federation" molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six
years in prison.

Larry Dale Floyd, Republican Constable in Denton County, Texas Precinct

Two. Arrested for allegedly crossing state lines to have sex with an
8-year old child and was charged with 7 related offenses. Age 62 at
time of arrest.

John Fund, of the Wall Street Journal, a prominent anti-abortion
columnist and GOP fund raiser. He lost his position after it was
revealed that he impregnated the daughter of an old girlfriend and then

encouraged her to abort his child.

Jeff Gannon Partisan blogger with no journalism credentials and a fake
name who got invited to Bush's Press conferences. Is also a pimp and a
gay prostitute. Truthout Article. See also dKospedia's page on Jeff
Gannon.

Jack W. Gardner, Republican Councilman from Pennsylvania, had been
convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl. when the Republican Party,
knowing of these crimes, put him on the ballot. Article with documents

Richard Gardner, a Nevada State Representative (R), admitted to
molesting his two daughters.

Newt Gingrich, Republican from Georgia, married three times. Gingrich
campaign worker Anne Manning admitted that she gave Newt oral sex while

he was still married to his first wife. Informed one wife he was filing

for divorce while she was in the hospital recovering from cancer
treatments.

Philip Giordano, Republican mayor from Connecticut sentenced to 37
years for forcing two 8 and 10 year old girls to perform oral sex on
him in his City Hall office.

Rudy Giuliani, Republican, ex-mayor of New York City, had an adulterous

affair while in office. Pocketed $80,000 for speaking at a charity
benefit for tsunami aid which raised $60,000 for the victims themselves

(Feb 2005).

Matthew Glavin, President and CEO of the Southeastern Legal Foundation,

big player in the Clinton Impeachment, and many anti-gay jihads, has
been arrested multiple times for public indecency, one time fondling
the crotch of the officer who was arresting him.

Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), Republican activist from
Florida, was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of
unlawful sexual activity with a juvenile and one count of delivering
the drug LSD.

Mark A. Grethen, Republican activist from Virginia, convicted on six
counts of sex crimes involving children.

Jon Grunseth, Republican businessman and candidate for Minnesota
governor, withdrew his candidacy after allegations surfaced that he
went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his
daughter, and tried to grope one. "I've made some mistakes" he said.

Dr. W. David Hager, Bush appointee from Kentucky, member of Focus on
the Family's Physician Resource Council, player in movement to ban the
morning-after-pill. Had an adulterous affair, before divorcing his wife

he sexually abused her, including sodomizing her in her sleep.

Mark Harris, Republican city councilman from Wisconsin who is described

as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly

having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in
prison.

John Hathaway, Republican Senate candidate from Maine, was accused of
having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy
after the allegations were reported in the media.

Howard Scott Heldreth, anti-abortion activist who gained fame during
the Schiavo media-circus, was convicted of two charges of raping a
child in 2002.

Mike Hintz, a First Assembly of God youth pastor from Des Moines, Iowa,

introduced by Bush on the campaign trail, and promoted his policies.
Says he supports Bush's values. Two months later, this married father
of four turned himself into police, charged with the sexual
exploitation of a child. Also signed an ad (that called for criminally
prosecuting business that
sell porn), along with another pastor who was repeatedly busted for
public masturbation.

Neal Horsley, anti-abortion activist from Georgia. Has called for the
arrest of all homosexuals. Admitted on the Fox News Radio's The Alan
Colmes Show, that he's had sex with mules. Put photographs on his Web
site of naked men engaging in homosexual acts and a nude woman engaging

in bestiality amid shots of grotesquely maimed fetuses. Drug dealer
convicted of possession of hashish with intent to sell. He calls for
"the establishment of a new government, one that can obey God's plan
for government."

Tim Hutchinson, Republican Senator from Arkansas, divorced his wife of
29 years to marry a congressional aide he was having an affair with.

Henry Hyde, Republican Congressman from Illinois, Judge who oversaw
Clinton's impeachment proceedings, prominent opponent of reproductive
rights, who had an extramarital affair with a woman who was married and

had three children, during the course of which she and her husband were

divorced.

Don Haidl, Assistant Sheriff of Orange Country, in violation of
California's rape shield law, led a smear campaign against the child
his son poisoned and then violently gang-raped on videotape, adding up
to 24 felony counts. He said that his son "acted accordingly" because
the child was a "slut". The full gruesome story, with many newspaper
articles.

Paul Ingram, Republican Party leader of Thurston County, Washington,
pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14
years in federal prison.

Bill Janklow, former S. Dakota Governor and Congressman, arrested for
drunk driving, disorderly conduct, assaulting an officer, and indecent
exposure in 1974. Pardoned his son-in-law for multiple drunk driving
convictions in 2002. Resigned congressional seat due to a felony
manslaughter conviction in a reckless driving incident (running a stop
sign at 70 mph)in 2003 that resulted in the death of farmer, Vietnam
veteran, and motorcyclist Randy Scott, 55, of Hardwick, Minnesota.
Janklow served 100 days of a possible 11-year sentence. Janklow sought
and received immunity from civil damages on the grounds that he was
traveling on business related to his role as a congressman when the
killing of Scott occurred. Janklow also petitioned to get back (and was

granted) his license to practice law in the state of South Dakota.

Bernard Kerik, former Police Commissioner of New York City under Rudy
Giuliani, had two simultaneous adulterous affairs while serving as
Police Commissioner.

Earl Kimmerling, from Indiana, sentenced to 40 years in prison after he

confessed to molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a
gay couple from adopting her. Anderson, IN, Mayor Mark Lawler and
Republican State Reps. Jack Lutz of Anderson, IN, and Woody Burton of
Greenwood, IN, supported him.

Lawrence E. King, Jr., Republican Activist, former director of the
Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, organized orgies
with child prostitutes at the White House during the 1980s.

I. Lewis Libby, former Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to

Vice President Dick Cheney. In 1996 published a novel containing
bizarre sexual content, including bestiality and pedophilia. Full
Details (Oh yeah, and he's also been indicted on obstruction of
justice, perjury and making false statements, charges adding up to 10
years in prison.)

Rush Limbaugh, thrice-divorced, 30-pill a day drug addict.

Bob Livingston, former Congressman (R-La.) resigned from the House in
the wake of revelations about his past adultery.

Donald Lukens, Former Ohio Republican Congressman, was found guilty of
having sex with a minor - a girl he was accused of sleeping with since
she was 13. Also convicted of taking $15,000 in bribes from the
operators of a trade school while he was a congressman. A U.S. District

Court jury in Washington deliberated for just one hour before reaching
the verdict.

Pat McPherson, Douglas County, Nebraska Election Commissioner. Arrested

for fondling a 17-year-old girl.

Jon Matthews, Republican talk show host in Houston, was indicted for
indecency with a child, including exposing his genitals to a girl under

the age of 17.

Jeff Miller, (R-Cleveland), Senate Republican Caucus Chairman in
Tennessee and the sponsor of Tennessee's Marriage Protection act,
getting divorced (as of April 2005) because of an affair he was having
with an office aid. Miller described the Tennessee Marriage Protection
Act as a means of preserving the sanctity of marriage. He opposed an
amendment, however, which stated that "Adultery is deemed to be a
threat to the institution of marriage and contrary to public policy in
Tennessee."

Nicholas Morency, Republican anti-abortion activist from Cape May
County, NJ, pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his
computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion
doctor.

Sue Myrick, Congresswoman (R-NC), describes herself as a "devout
Christian." Committed adultery with a married man.

Bill O'Reilly Right-wing conservative talk show host on Fox News, sued
for sexual harassment by his producer.

Bob Packwood, Senator (R-Ore.), resigned in 1995 under a threat of
public senate hearings related to 10 female ex-staffers accusing him of

sexual harassment.

Jeffrey Patti, Republican Committee Chairman from Sparta, NJ, was
arrested for distributing what experts call "some of the most offensive

material in the child pornography world" - a video clip of a 5-year-old

girl being raped.

John Paulk, lied about prowling for gay sex while running a
fundamentalist group, Exodus International, to cure gays.

Brent Parker Utah State Representative. Arrested for soliciting sex
from an undercover officer posing as a male prostitute.

John Peterson, Congressman (R-Pa), accused of sexual harassment and
creation of a hostile work environment by six women. Peterson has
refused to admit a crime, saying only "I may have been an excessive
hugger."

Harvey Pitt, SEC Chief under George W. Bush until he was forced to
resign in 2002. Worked for New Frontier Media, a firm which distributed

teen sex videos.

Mark Pazuhanich, Republican judge from Monroe County, PA, pleaded no
contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years
probation.

Ralph Reed Former Executive Director of the Christian Coalition. Has
called gambling a "cancer on the American body politic." Received $3.8
million in payments from 2001-2002 from a former aide of Tom Delay,
which specifically benefited two tribal clients in their efforts to
protect casino interests.

Steve Rice Republican City Councilman and former Mayor of Sterling
Heights, Michigan. Charged with possession of cocaine, a felony.
Crystal meth was found on his housemate, Jeremy Burns.

Rick Roach, West Texas Republican district attorney who was elected in
2000 after running a "strong anti-drug campaign." According to the
Washington Times, he was "once publicly praised for his efforts to
stamp out narcotics in his part of the Panhandle." 2205: FBI agents
confiscated two handguns from Roach's briefcase, before raiding his
home and discovering "35 more guns, along with a cache of cocaine,
methamphetamines, marijuana, scales and syringes."

George Roche III, carried on a 19 year affair with his son's wife,
while serving as president of Hillsdale College in Michigan, which
"emphasizes the importance of the common moral truths that bind all
Americans, while recognizing the importance of religion for the
maintenance of a free society."

Beverly Russell, County Chairman of the Christian Coalition as well as
a member of the South Carolina Republican Party's executive
committee, sexually molested his step-daughter, Susan Smith, who later
drowned her two children.

Rick Santorum, used $100,000 of PA state funds earmarked for that
state's school children to educate his own children, who were not
residents of Pennsylvania.

Joe Scarborough, former Republican Congressman from Pensacola, Florida,

currently a conservative talk show host. Resigned his congressional
seat abruptly to spend more time with his family, amidst allegations of

an affair. His intern, Lori Klausutis, was soon after found dead in his

office. The medical examiner, who had his license revoked in Missouri
for falsifying information in an autopsy report, and suspended in
Florida for six years, ruled the case an accident, after giving
conflicting information about her injuries. He said he lied about them
because "The last thing we wanted was 40 questions about a head
injury."

Ed Schrock, two-term Republican Congressman from Virginia, with a 92%
approval rating from the Christian Coalition. Cosponsor of the Federal
Marriage Amendment, consistently opposed gay rights. Married, with wife

and kids. Withdrew his candidacy for a third term after tapes of him
soliciting for gay sex were circulated.

Dr. Laura Schlessinger, right wing conservative radio host. Promotes
family values, estranged from her mother, opposes birth control, has
had her tubes tied, espouses saving oneself for marriage, admits to
having had sex before she was married, opposes adultery, has committed
adultery while she was married, and has slept with a married man,
opposes divorce, is divorced and remarried, has posed for nude photos
which are available online.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, California Republican Governor, had sex with a
16 year old when he was 28.

John Scmitz, right-wing Republican Congressman, who had had his
committee chairship taken away from him in the California State Senate
after issuing a press release attacking Jews, feminists and gays.
Forced out of office in 1982 for having an adulterous affair and
fathering two children out of wedlock with one of his students. He was
caught because his baby was admitted to hospital for having hair tied
so tightly around his penis that it was almost severed. His daughter,
Mary Kay LeTourneau, was convicted of having an adulterous affair with
one of her students, and giving birth to two of his children.

Larry Jack Schwarz, Republican parole board officer and former Colorado

State Representative, fired after child pornography was found in his
possession. Rocky Mountain News article With his political career over,

he went to work in the hard-core pornography industry for Platinum X
Pictures, owned by his daughter, porn starlet Jewel De'Nyle (Stephany
Schwarz).

Don Sherwood, Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives
representing the 10th Congressional District of Pennsylvania.
Eventually admitted to an affair with a woman 30 years younger than
him, after she accused him of physical abuse and attempting to choke
her.

Tom Shortridge. Republican campaign consultant and former head of the
South Bay, CA, Republican Club, was sentenced to three years probation
for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr., Republican City Councilman from Wrightsville,
PA, pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months

in prison.

John Snow, Secretary of the Treasury, securities fraud class action
lawsuit, sued by his ex-wife for child support, and has been arrested
for DUI.

Craig J. Spence, Republican lobbyist, organized orgies with child
prostitutes in the White House during the 1980s.

Jim Stelling, Seminole County Republican Party chairman who believes in

"family values", as he told a judge. Filed a defamation lawsuit against

Nancy Goettman, a former county GOP executive committee member, for
falsely claiming he had been married six times. Stelling has been
married 5 times.

Roger Stone, Republican dirty-tricks operative, led the mob that shut
down the Miami-Dade County recount; advisor for Bob Dole and Arlen
Specter's Presidential campaigns, owner of Washington, D.C.-based Ikon
Public Affairs. Place X-rated ads for group sex with his wife, Nydia.
Claimed he was framed, even though the ads were placed with his credit
card and used his P.O. Box.

Jimmy Swaggart, televangelist, said during a sermon "I'm trying to find

the correct name for it ... this utter absolute, asinine, idiotic
stupidity of men marrying men. ... I've never seen a man in my life I
wanted to marry. And I'm gonna be blunt and plain; if one ever looks at

me like that, I'm gonna kill him and tell God he died." Had an affair
with a prostitute.

David Swartz, Republican County Commissioner from Ohio, pleaded guilty
to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years

in prison.

Randall Terry, Right to Life activist, founder of Operation Rescue,
involved in the Terri Schiavo protests. Once imprisoned for sending
former President Bill Clinton an aborted fetus. His son Jamiel is gay;
his daughter Tila had sex outside of marriage, became pregnant, had a
miscarriage - she is no longer welcome in his home; his daughter Ebony
had 2 children outside of wedlock and became Muslim. He has campaigned
against infidelity and birth control, gays and unwed mothers. Terry
himself was censured by his church after committing adultery.

Bill Thomas Republican Congressman from Bakersfield, CA, had an affair
with Deborah Steelman, a health care lobbyist who steered huge campaign

gifts to Thomas' war chest.

Strom Thurmond, Republican Senator from South Carolina and racist,
raped and impregnated a 15-year old African American maid.

Robin Vanderwall, Republican strategist and Citadel Military College
graduate, convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from
boys and girls over the internet.

Robert Waltrip, Bush campaign contributor. Runs a funeral company which

had to settle a lawsuit because bodies were being dug up and dumped in
the woods. According to Fox News, Waltrip's company, a cemetery company

called Service Corporation International (also known as Dignity
Memorial) was "recycling" graves, removing the bodies that were there
originally and throwing them in the woods to use the space to house new

customers at two Jewish cemeteries in Florida. George W. Bush, who had
met with Waltrip, was subpoenaed but refused to testify in the case.

J.C. Watts, Representative (R-Oklahoma), loud champion of "moral
values." Has out-of-wedlock children.

Jim Wesr, Spokane Mayor. Supported a bill, which failed, would have
barred gays and lesbians from working in schools, day-care centers and
some state agencies. Voted to bar the state from distributing pamphlets

telling people how to protect themselves from AIDS. Proposed that
"any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person"
among teens be criminalized. Had a sexual affair with an 18 year old
boy.

Keith Westmoreland, a Tennessee state representative (R), was arrested
on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to minors
under 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Stephen White, Republican preacher. Was arrested after allegedly
offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy in West Chester, PA, for permission
to perform oral sex on him.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:04 pm
From: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"

"Kevin" <kevprice1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1145126230.930567.218640@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition
> and its "family values." Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife.
> Said "We can't forgive what occurred between the President and
> Lewinsky." In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a
> prostitute and attempted to flee the scene.
>

family fxcking, family fucking, family fucking values.
values, values, family fucking values.

the only good republicscum is a DEAD republicscum

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Iran Leader: Israel Will Be Annihilated"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/559ce07c61aadd6
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:37 pm
From: dimethyltryptamine

vk111vk@mail.com wrote...
> TEHRAN, Iran
> The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel on Friday and said it
> was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears
> about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium
> for the first time.
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/14/D8GVSUC0H.html
>
> President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the
> Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also appeared to again
> question whether the Holocaust really happened.

It seems to me that people are making a bigger fuss about the latter -
that while threatening to nuke Israel is a bad thing, denying that the
Holocaust happened is much worse.

------------------------------------------------------------------
"So you see the world is coming to an end and you want to make a
Holocaust back in 1941. That's not a Holocaust, that was man's
war against man, that's not God's war against man. God is in
everything, y'know. We need to fix the water, we need to help
the damn trees, we need to stop the fuckin' pollution, we need to
stop them damn automobiles and do a lot more walking. Get back
to bicycles, quit using paper, quit wiping your ass with the
trees, quit wasting all the fuckin' paper, man."
-- Charles Manson
------------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sing Along With BITCH ("Itz Hard Out Here For A Pimp")
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d050999ea1771c53
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:43 am
From: Von Bailey

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:52:27 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, wrong and wrong. Now quit dreaming, get out of bed and go do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something constructive. Like chase the pimps off your block.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My neighborhood apprently doesn't share the same type of people as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yours. There are no pimps to worry about around here that I am aware
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Did you open your eyes after hitting the street?. But I can assure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you there are NO pimps, gangs, etc, on my block.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, you're the one bringing [pimps and hoes] up so I guess we are again subject
>>>>>>>>>>>>to you speaking on a subject of which you are totally ignorant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, I plead guilty to having first-person experience with them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well then I stand corrected. Given that you say that pimps aren't in
>>>>>>>>>>your neighborhood I guess you traveled somewhere to have this
>>>>>>>>>>'experience' with pimps. A new side of you comes out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Wrong, you stand incorrect as usual. I was talking about the
>>>>>>>>>assurance that there are no pimps, gangs, etc, on my block. Because I
>>>>>>>>>have a very good ongoing first-person experience with what goes on
>>>>>>>>>around here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You didn't say you had a first person experience with "what goes on
>>>>>>>>around here" you said you had a first person experience with the
>>>>>>>>subject that was at hand, pimps and hoes. Now that you've been
>>>>>>>>discovered you're running from your words.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nope, you're just taking my words out of context. Something that's
>>>>>>>always given you problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>So now you deny that you have personal experience with them. Your
>>>>>>going back on your word is not unusual but expected so feel free.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nothing to go back on. You quoted me out of context. Nothing more.
>>>>>
>>>>How is you saying you have first person experience with pimps and hoes
>>>>taking your words out of context when in response to a question about
>>>>them you responded, "Yes, I plead guilty to having first-person
>>>>experience with them."? It's not. You're just to disingenuous to
>>>>even admit to your own words.
>>>
>>>Still taking things out-of-context, I see.
>>>
>>Not at all. And the fact that you cannot demonstrate HOW I have taken
>>your words out of context illustrates that you either don't know how
>>or are hoping your lies are sufficient.
>
>Nope, I told you how you did.
>
And here's the expected lie. You claim you've done something you
didn't do.

>>>>>>>>>>> Nor does
>>>>>>>>>>>it change my conviction that under no circumstances do I want a pimp
>>>>>>>>>>>and his entourage of hos EVER to show up in my neighborhood.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Yet you claim 'first-person experience'. Where'd the 'experience'
>>>>>>>>>>come from?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now I know you are confused.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So you didn't have the experience you claim above?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have what I claimed -- knowledge about what goes on in the streets
>>>>>>>around my house. Or in the case of pimps, hos, drugs, etc, what
>>>>>>>doesn't go on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Really? What is this "knowledge" based on? How did you come about to
>>>>>>*know* this as factual?
>>>>>
>>>>>Getting out and about in the immediate vicinity where I live, day and
>>>>>night. Guess what, no sign of hos, pimps, dope dealers, etc. No
>>>>>graffiti, no nothing.
>>>>
>>>>What makes you think that finding them would be as easy as "getting
>>>>out and about in the immediate vicinity"? Are you under the
>>>>assumption that they would be walking the streets? Don't you think
>>>>that they would be acting a bit less conspicuous than that?
>>>
>>>I guess you haven't seen how pimpz dress and drive these days.
>>
>>No I haven't. Not my crowd. But given that you have admitted to
>>"personal experience" I will bow to your knowledge here. How do they
>>dress?
>
>Just look at any movie that deals with life in the `hood.
>
Thank you for explaining where you get your life experiences from.
Somebody write a movie and you use scenes out of them as life
experiences.

>
>>>>>Boring? Yes. Which suits me just fine, as I
>>>>>wouldn't want to try to go to sleep every night to sounds of gunfire,
>>>>>stabbings, police sirens, cRap "music" blaring, drunkards and
>>>>>dopeheads screaming and pissing on the streets, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>Whose neighborhood do you think you're discribing?
>>>
>>>Not mine of course, since I don't live in the `hood, nor do I live
>>>anywhere near where the "projects" are located.
>>>
>>Not an answer to my question. Whose neighborhood are you discribing?
>
>See above, the same response to how to see how a pimp dresses.
>
A neighborhood in a movie? You are aware that movies are 'fictional'
(that means make believe). So you admit your references to life are
the movies. That's about as pitiful as it can get.

>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You missed the point as usual. Of course the Oscar folks didn't take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the lyrics into account when selecting the award -- if they did, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would have had to give the award to someone else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>According to you who was not part of the process and as such has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nothing except your bigotted notiions to draw from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nothing except the words of the lyrics themselves, which were freely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>available to any interested party before the awards were decided, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thus could have (and should have) been reviewed by the members of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>committee before the vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if the words won by themselves you might have a point. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unlike you, the people who voted have the ability not only to read the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>words but listen to them with music and then associate them to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>movie in which it was written for. Thus, not suffering your apparent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ignorance they had the ability to vote in a way you couldn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong. The association was clear enough, and it was all garbage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Your ability to make the association to a movie you didn't see would
>>>>>>>>>>>>be miraculous if it was true. But since it isn't we have another
>>>>>>>>>>>>demonstration of you speaking of things of which you are ignorant,
>>>>>>>>>>>>again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, because I know to read, and thus having read the lyrics of the
>>>>>>>>>>>"song" that was deemed worthy of an Oscar, I found out all I needed to
>>>>>>>>>>>know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No doubt. An ignorant superficial person such as yourself wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>want to take into account the entire scope of criteria to judge the
>>>>>>>>>>song. Prejudging something without all the evidence is one of your
>>>>>>>>>>specialties.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The lyrics are all the evidence I need, and you should read them too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>True, you are of course the psuedo-great white man. Why should you
>>>>>>>>actually use the criteria for the award to judge the song? You, in
>>>>>>>>your infinate fake powers *believe* you know better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Guess what silly one, *I* didn't write those lyrics, some black guy
>>>>>>>did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Guess what stupid one, *I* didn't say you did write them.
>>>>>
>>>>>But you said I believe I know better. Well, no, I don't have to
>>>>>"know", I just need to be able to read the lyrics.
>>>>
>>>>Which is the most superficial way to judge a song writen for a movie
>>>>being judged on how it represents the movie. But then superficial is
>>>>your specialty.
>>>
>>>Oh, so the lyrics mean nothing? Just a collection of words tossed
>>>together, almost at random?
>>
>>No. They are a collection of words put together to give meaning and
>>depth to a movie. A point obvious to most and oblivious to you.
>
>No, just the oppposite. I agree wholeheartedly with your point about
>the lyrics giving "meaning and depth to a movie". Because it
>contracdicts *your* own argument about superficiality here.

So you taking on my POV gives you substance. Interesting POV.

von

---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palestinians to get Russian aid
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/3d701135de276b7d
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:48 pm
From: Mickey

NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Palestinians to get Russian aid
>
> Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
>
> BBC News - Apr 15, 2006
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4911310.stm
>
> Palestinians to get Russian aid
>
> Russia has said it will grant the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority urgent
> financial aid, in opposition to the policy of the EU and the US.
>
> Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov made the pledge to authority President
> Mahmoud Abbas in a telephone call, Moscow said.
>
> The US and EU cut off aid after Hamas took power on 30 March because the
> militant group refused to renounce violence or recognise Israel.
>
> Iran on Friday urged the Muslim world to help fund the authority.
>
> A Russian foreign ministry statement said: "Mahmoud Abbas stated his high
> appreciation of Russia's intent, confirmed by Sergei Lavrov, to grant the
> Palestinian Authority an urgent financial aid in the nearest future."
>
> Mr Lavrov said on Tuesday withholding aid to the Palestinians was a mistake.
>
> "Hamas should... recognise Israel and sit down at the negotiating table. But
> for that it's necessary to work with them," Mr Lavrov said.
>
> The US Treasury this week further tightened the screws on Palestinian cash
> by banning American nationals from doing business with the Hamas-led
> authority.
>
> However, the US is making exceptions for government entities under the
> direct control of Mr Abbas, whose Fatah movement is a rival of Hamas.
>
> Palestinian PM Ismail Haniya, of Hamas, vowed on Friday that the cuts in
> funds would not weaken the people's resolve.
>
> 'Oil and olives'
>
> In Tehran, the Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, opened a
> three-day forum on Palestinian solidarity by calling on the Muslim world to
> help the Palestinian people and their Hamas-led government.
>
> Ayatollah Khamenei said all Muslims had a duty to help and should not remain
> indifferent to tyranny.
>
> Both he and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad launched strong attacks on the
> West.
>
> Ayatollah Khamenei said its liberal democracy was like a poison.
>
> He said global imperialism led by the US president openly threatened the
> Muslim world by talking about launching a crusade against it
>
> President Ahmadinejad widened the attack to include Israel, which he said
> was "a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm".
>
> The president provoked an international outcry last October when he cast
> doubts on the Holocaust and said Israel should be "wiped off the map".
>
> On Friday he said there were no doubts about the holocaust suffered by the
> Palestinian people in the past 60 years and that the Palestinians should not
> pay the price for what the West said were crimes against Jews.
>
> "Believe that Palestine will be freed soon," he said.
>
> Mr Haniya said on Friday the suspension of Western aid to the Palestinians
> would never defeat the Hamas-led administration.
>
> He said the West would not succeed in isolating the government because it
> had the full support of Palestinians.
>
> "We will eat cooking oil and olives," he said.
>
> Mr Haniya was addressing Friday prayers in Gaza before the start of a series
> of rallies aimed at demonstrating support for the Hamas-led administration.
>
> The militant group's political leader in exile, Khaled Meshaal, is attending
> the Tehran conference to gain funding pledges.
>
> Iran has said it will fund the Hamas-led government but so far no figures
> have been publicly pledged and no concrete deals have yet been announced at
> the conference.
>

now here´s a mess for USA...Russia and Muslimns backing up against the
USA Ally....remember Muslims and Russia has all the oil thats left....

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:54 pm
From: "charleslaw"

"Mickey" <Mickey@flyingfinn.com> wrote in message
news:Edb0g.292$Za.48@read3.inet.fi...
> NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Palestinians to get Russian aid
>>
>> Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit
>> BBC News - Apr 15, 2006
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4911310.stm
>>
>> Palestinians to get Russian aid
>>
>> Russia has said it will grant the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority urgent
>> financial aid, in opposition to the policy of the EU and the US.
>>
>> Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov made the pledge to authority President
>> Mahmoud Abbas in a telephone call, Moscow said.
The Jew wants to strangle the few folks that remain in their homeland. Good
for the Russians to stand up for these people. Americans have been bought
by the Jews; they are nothing more than the gun-bearing fleas of the Jews.
Sadly America knows not of John 8:44. It should since Bush claims to be a
born-agian Christian but maybe not.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generals report Rumsfeld incompetence; Bush responds, "Attaboy, Rummy!"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f1707ebfbe4b5f38
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:48 am
From: beachshark1@yahoo.com

So, let me get this straight... Generals of America's fighting forces
who have had to work under the command of Donald Rumsfeld come out
individually with the revelation that much of the problems in the
invasion of Iraq are directly due to Rumsfeld's refusal to truly listen
to the Generals or other military officers, micro-managing with
ill-planned orders instead... and, upon hearing this, George Bush
immediately releases his response, which amounts to an "Attaboy Rummy!
Way to go!" ??????

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Iran issues stark military warning to United States YOU GOTTA *LOVE*
IRAN
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/7879b0f3adc1feea
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:50 pm
From: Mickey

Möbius Pretzel wrote:
> NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:
>
>> Iran issues stark military warning to United States
>>
>> AFP - Apr 14, 2006
>> http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/060414191647.gkbeufd2.html
>>
>> Iran issues stark military warning to United States
>>
>> TEHRAN (AFP) - Iran said it could defeat any American military action over
>> its controversial nuclear drive, in one of the Islamic regime's boldest
>> challenges yet to the United States.
>
> Bush don't care. He's wants bring on the 'rapture'.
>
>
>
>> "You can start a war but it won't be you who finishes it," said General
>> Yahya Rahim Safavi, the head of the Revolutionary Guards and among the
>> regime's most powerful figures.
>
> "Bring 'em on' Bush is too retarded to realize this
> and he sure as Hell ain't gonna start listening to his
> military commanders now...
>
>
>> "The Americans know better than anyone that their troops in the region and
>> in Iraq are vulnerable. I would advise them not to commit such a strategic
>> error," he told reporters on the sidelines of a pro-Palestinian conference
>> in Tehran.
>
> As Bush as proven time and time again
> he doesn't give a shit about U,S. troops.
>
> U.S. troops = cannon fodder.
>
>
>
>> The United States accuses Iran of using an atomic energy drive as a mask for
>> weapons development. Last weekend US news reports said President George W.
>> Bush's administration was refining plans for preventive strikes on Iran's
>> nuclear facilities.
>
> Let the 'rapture' begin.
>
>
>> "I would advise them to first get out of their quagmire in Iraq before
>> getting into an even bigger one," General Safavi said with a grin.
>
> Hey this guy makes a lot of sense.
>
>
>> "We have American forces in the region under total surveillance. For the
>> past two years, we have been ready for any scenario, whether sanctions or an
>> attack."
>
> Bush replies, "U.S. troops = cannon fodder. I don't care."
>
>
>> Iran announced this week it had successfully enriched uranium to make
>> nuclear fuel, despite a UN Security Council demand for the sensitive work to
>> be halted by April 28.
>>
>> The Islamic regime says it only wants to generate atomic energy, but
>> enrichment can be extended to make the fissile core of a nuclear warhead --
>> something the United States is convinced that "axis of evil" member Iran
>> wants to acquire.
>>
>> At a Friday prayer sermon in Tehran, senior cleric Ayatollah Ahmad Janati
>> simply branded the US as a "decaying power" lacking the "stamina" to block
>> Iran's ambitions.
>>
>> And hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told AFP that a US push for tough
>> United Nations sanctions was of "no importance."
>>
>> "She is free to say whatever she wants," the president replied when asked to
>> respond to comments by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice highlighting
>> part of the UN charter that provides for sanctions backed up by the threat
>> of military action.
>>
>> "We give no importance to her comments," he said with a broad smile.
>
> And why should he?
>
> ;)
>
>
>
>> On Thursday, Rice said that faced with Iran's intransigence, the United
>> States "will look at the full range of options available to the United
>> Nations."
>
> Bless Iran's power plant and wish them luck.
>
>> In seeking to deter international action, Iran has been playing up its oil
>> wealth, its military might in strategic Gulf waters and its influence across
>> the region -- such as in Iraq, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.
>
> And born loser Bush, has been systemactically weakening the American
> military
> and economy.
>
>
>> At the Tehran conference, Iran continued to thumb its nose at the United
>> States and Israel.
>
>
>
>
>> "The Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent
>> threat," Ahmadinejad told the gathering of regime officials, visiting
>> Palestinian militant leaders and foreign sympathizers.
>
>
> True.
>
>> "Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is on the road to being
>> eliminated," said Ahmadinejad, whose regime does not recognise Israel and
>> who drew international condemnation last year when he said Israel should be
>> "wiped off the map."
>>
>> Unfazed by his critics, the hardliner went on to repeat his controversial
>> stance on the Holocaust.
>>
>> "If there is serious doubt over the Holocaust, there is no doubt over the
>> catastrophe and Holocaust being faced by the Palestinians," said the
>> president, who had previously dismissed as a "myth" the killing of an
>> estimated six million Jews by the Nazis and their allies during World War
>> II.
>>
>> "I tell the governments who support Zionism to ... let the migrants (Jews)
>> return to their countries of origin. If you think you owe them something,
>> give them some of your land," he said.
>>
>> Iran's turbaned supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, also accused the
>> United States of seeking to place the entire region under Israeli control.
>>
>> "The plots by the American government against Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon
>> aimed at governing the Middle East with the control of the Zionist regime
>> will not succeed," Khamenei said.
>
> Even with failure, lunatic Bush leading the way?
>
> LOL!
>

Bush will soon start to tell how USA needs to stay on course, but the
course will be the dying and fleeing one...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The American Jewish Committe pushes Iran war
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/798b813415643838
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:53 am
From: bmoore@nyx.net

rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
> >Personally, I believe that the establishment of Israel as a state on
> >the land of Palestine is a historical fact which people should live
> >with while at the same time Israel should not flaunt the gift of the
> >world's goodwill, its existence, by exploiting the Palestinians,
> >grabbing their land, and arbitrarily killing them day in and day out.
>
> What was Israel or Judea over 2000 years ago is not the same as Israel
> of today. Israel of old were the people of the land around Judea.
> Israel of today are the people from European countries believed in the
> Jewish religion.

The Eastern European Jews are descendants of Jews who were kicked out
of the old Israel.

The creation of Israel from the land occupied by
> present day Palestine is the root of today's world problem,

In a sense, yes, but history does not occur in a vacuum. There are many
causes: Germany's Final Solution, the Arab's treatment of the
Palestinians, etc. This is a complicated topic, not one which can be
summed up very well with sound bites.

> and it
> continue to be future problems with Iran's plan for unclear power. Its
> a struggle between the haves and have nots.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shias add fuel to hatred with 'gangsta-rap' incitement
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cfdd29c7dd22d1bb
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 11:54 am
From: Von Bailey

On 15 Apr 2006 08:03:47 -0700, "Steve" <sdaniel13@speakeasy.net>
wrote:

>You're getting defensive for no good reason. Why do you think he's
>using racist stereotypes?

Because he does. He admits to it.

>Maybe he's bearing in mind that African
>Americans are poorer per capita than whites, less well educated per
>capita than whites, all for reasons that have nothing to do with
>African Americans per se and everything to do with a system that's
>geared to benefit those who are white and wealthy.

Because he's on record as not agreeing with that POV. A reading of
his posts for would demonstrate that.

>Fact is, violent
>crime is more of a problem in the African American community, but the
>explanation of this is sociological, not racial. Instead of criticizing
>this guy, you should be agreeing with him.
>
And you have a right to your opinion. I on the other hand have the
right to agree with whoever I want using my own standards.

>And rap music? Just one more tool in Whitey's little toolkit to keep
>African Americans in the hoods and out of the board rooms.

Which assumes that 'board rooms' are a good or the only place to be
successful, or that 'whitey' controls all rap. Both are incorrect
assumptions.

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 12:00 pm
From: Von Bailey

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:52:21 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:19:06 GMT, God's Creator
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><Why_Are_Gods@Always.Bro.Ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Thus spake God's Creator*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gangsta-Rap music now being used to stir up the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq insurgents in their war against the invaders.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The rap songs are directed at the Sunis and the Shites
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in such a way as inflame their hatreds of each other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/05/wirq105.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many young people in America have allowed this violence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provoking art-form ("called Rap") to make murderers of them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or cause them to end up dead, or in prison. :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the fools music PLAY on... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's also a fool who blames music for the actions of human beings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>These people were killing each other prior to the introduction of rap
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to their culture. To blame rap music for people killing each other in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>war zone is ridiculous. Try asking WHY the young man has these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>feelings of a need to kill instead of chastising the vehicle he uses
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to communicate these feelings. The vehicle did not create the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>feelings any more than rap created violence in the United States.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well then I suppose it's just a coincidence that the list of cRappers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>(http://wayoflife.org/fbns/rapper-deathstyle.html) who have been cut
>>>>>>>>>>>>>down in one violent way or another is long, albeit not terribly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>distinguished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I suppose it's also a coincidence that one *never* has to wait too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>long for the next news story about cRap-related violence, like the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>shooting of Busta Rhyme's bodyguard a few weeks ago during one of his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>recording sessions. Probably won't be long now until the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>cRap-related shooting and/or killing news breaks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Won't be long before some white guy kills another white guy either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>What's your point?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>There are hundreds of millions of white guys on the planet. So one
>>>>>>>>>>>killing another hardly defies the law of averages.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>There are also hundreds of millions of black guys on the planet but
>>>>>>>>>>I'm willing to bet you have some different standard for them
>>>>>>>>>>regardless.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Actually, you lose again. Quite the contrary, I believe everyone
>>>>>>>>>should be held to the same standards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>LOL!!! You 'believe' you believe that (denial allows all kinds of
>>>>>>>>delusions). Your words demonstrate that you have varying standards
>>>>>>>>for just about everything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where's the evidence?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>In your posts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let's try this again: Where's the evidence?
>>>>>
>>>>In your posts.
>>>
>>>I think there's an echo here, or at least in your mind.
>>
>>Or your just incredibly stupid and can't understand a simply sentence.
>
>Nope. You're just guessing again, wildly too.
>
Excuse me. That was based on your inability to understand my answer.
If you understood it then you were being purposely obtuse and I didn't
notice.

>>>>>>>>> Which is why I oppose AA,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>...but say nothing about things like Alumni admissions which favor
>>>>>>>>white people or the inherent processes that favor whites in the system
>>>>>>>>as a whole.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong, alumni admissions don't only favor white folks, they favor
>>>>>>>equally all those who are descendants of previous students. So given
>>>>>>>that many blacks have gone to college over the past 2 or 3 decades,
>>>>>>>it's fair to say their children will benefit equally from alumni
>>>>>>>connections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why should ANY alumni have such a right for their children and why
>>>>>>isn't it just as offensive as doing something just for blacks?
>>>>>
>>>>>Because it's one of the perks of getting a college education.
>>>>>
>>>>That doesn't explain why it exists. It allows unqualified candidates
>>>>special treatment through no merit of their own. If it's wrong to do
>>>>it for one group it's wrong to do it for any group unless you're
>>>>simply a hypocrite.
>>>
>>>Wrong, alumni still have to meet admission standards. The problem
>>>with the better colleges has been that they get far-more qualified
>>>applicants than they have spots for. So you get a few points if one
>>>of your parents was good enough to get in AND you yourself are
>>>qualified.
>>>
>>The same standards for AA, except the preference is based on race
>>instead of who your daddy was.
>
>Close, but the preference is based on an individual's background, not
>which demographic profile he fits into.
>
No, not the individuals background, but the PARENT'S background. The
alumni's child had NOTHING to do with the institution except the
connection the institution decided to make. There is NOTHING that
suggests that just because a parent went to a school that the child of
that almuni should also get preferential treatment. It just happens
that mostly white people can take advantage of that form of AA, and
coincidently it's a form that you approve of.

>>>>>>>>>relaxed standards, set-asides, "diversity" targets and the like. But
>>>>>>>>>you made a nice attempt to dodge my point above about cRappers and the
>>>>>>>>>news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You provide 'anecdotes' and presume that they represent whole groups
>>>>>>>>of people and I point out how bigotted that is. You don't like it, to
>>>>>>>>bad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong again, I've provided *much more* than mere anecdotes. Like a
>>>>>>>lengthy, fact-filled list of cRappers who died young and violent
>>>>>>>deaths, for example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A list compiled by some white person
>>>>>
>>>>>How do you know the author wasn't black?
>>>>>
>>>>Are you claiming that he was or attempting to create some red herring?
>>>
>>>I'm claiming nothing one way or the other. Where's your evidence or
>>>basis to support your claim that he's white.
>>>
>>The web site.
>
>It said he was white? I must have missed that. Do you have a quote.
>
Go to to the home page of the site. It has his picture.

>>>>>>who did nothing except compile a
>>>>>>list of black people who died viiolent deaths. It's no more relevant
>>>>>>than a list of people who died at the hands of postal workers except
>>>>>>that your bigotry focuses on one more than the other for racial
>>>>>>reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>cRappers are considered by some to be role models, whereas nobody I
>>>>>know considers postal workers anything other than that. And cRappers
>>>>>show up on TV and radio all the time, whereas 99.9% of postal workers
>>>>>remain anonymous outside their families and workplace.
>>>>>
>>>>So what? The dialog isn't about who gets on television or becomes
>>>>role models it's about violent deaths regardless of if they are
>>>>related to a specific way of making a living. It's a stupid standard
>>>>that you and this silly preacher created.
>>>
>>>Nope, and while violent deaths happen across the land every day, most
>>>people don't want to emulate the "lifestyles" that led to them (or
>>>even know about them). But cRap is different, since many young people
>>>explicitly DO try to life out the "lifestyle".
>>>
>>People don't want to become postal workers?
>
>I've not seen many touting that particular "lifestyle", for example,
>by dressing up like one.

So what? Does that mean that people don't aspire to be postal
workers? No it doesn't. Just another irrelevant statement.

von
---
There is no conversation that I can have that threatens my reality and I
don't see how anyone can live with such a precarious state of mind.
---
God isn't the problem, religion is. Something that doesn't exist
can't really be a problem. Worshiping something that doesn't exist
is an entirely different subect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Some say Iran's weapons come from Russia
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/938d3d0d2a6b5e90
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 2:57 pm
From: "TBD"

"Andrzej Adam Filip" <anfi@priv.onet.pl> wrote in message
news:87lku6u8tj.fsf@anfi.homeunix.net...
> "TBD" <yournamehere@yourdomain.com> writes:
>
>> "captain." <spammersmustdie@now.net> wrote in message
>> news:q450g.13396$Zl.4063@edtnps89...
>>>
>>> "MTRPT" <Mir.Topolski@gmx.de> wrote in message
>>> news:1145096239.610034.245930@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>>> TBD wrote:
>>>>> "Andrzej Adam Filip" wrote:
>>>>> > Does USA threat military action against Iran?
>>>>> No. The USA has repeatedly said it wants a diplomatic solution.
>>>>
>>>> C'mon Brookski. Even Krapo knows that US diplomacy = oxymoron.
>>>>
>>>
>>> i believe that the usa will not invade iran.
>>>
>>> but imagine they do... can you say "draft"?
>>
>> No need for a draft. Just cruise-missile every Iranian powerplant and
>> no more centrifuges.
>>
>> The Serbs learned the hard how the US can bring you down without ever
>> touching foot on your soil.
>
> Are you ready to preach "your wisdom" to US Army troops in Iraq?
>
> If you think that any serious aerial offensive against Iran can go
> without "increased" US Army casualties in Iraq then you are "wise" as
> George Walker Bush.
>
> Iran had a lot of time to prepare responses for multiple scenarios.
>

You should change your name to Neville Chamberlain.

We all know how Europe responded to Hitler in 1939. It's deja vu all over
again with Ahmadeenadingdong in Iran.

No war is ever fought the same way twice. Knock out Iran's power plants and
oil export capability and then the leadership will have to figure out what
to do with 68 million unfed citizens. I'm sure plenty of them remember the
war with Saddam and don't want a repeat. Don't forget, there are very few
Islamofascists in Iran once you get past the old farts that have power. Iran
has a very young population and the affinity with the Islamo-nutjobs in
power is very thin. The only way the Iranians can retain power is to
convince the people there is a threat on the outside.

To save face, Ahmadeenadingdong will have to mount a counter attack. Iran
has a serviceable air force although it's mostly patched together old stuff.
Still if they are defeated by the US Air Force, it would be a horrible
humiliation and probably enough to get a change a government. Iran has no
hope of mounting a major military attack against the US (Highway of Death).
They can try an insurgency but they have to mess around with both the Iraqis
and the Afghanis. Neither of them will appreciate the Iranians mucking
around. US can play some fun games too.

Best case, the Iraqis begin to act as one to defeat the Iranian
troublemakers. Worst case, Bush leaves a big mess for Hillary to clean up.

==============================================================================

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