soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:

* Secondary factors why Eyeran wants nukes - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a6b2f655b2a3f198
* Queremos un gobierno que acabe con las divisiones y reconcilie a los
venezolanos. Queremos un gobierno que considere la honestidad - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ea83de8344541731
* Hersh vs. Bush: Who Would You Believe? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ba628ff46dad22bc
* THE FIRST TERRORIST PEOPLE - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/904401dc574f729b
* WITH FRIENDS LIKE KIKES, AMERICA NEEDS NO ENEMIES! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cd9b460263d94174
* The Fateful Hour has Arrived . . . - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/68f9d71f4e6c36bb
* .............Y.................. ... CRISTO RESUCITÓ - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1aec61be391c6dad
* DEAD-END DEBATES - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6af889c7df24e826
* Islam has four times as many young men of fighting age as the west - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/224b0236d0f9929f
* Bangla Terrorist Groups Involved In Varanasi Bomb Blats - 2 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee4fc3538a948b81
* Refuting "commonsense" on love and experience - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1fe0e4d99b5c5d2b
* Cuban-Americans and Cuban-American Supporters in the Bush Administration - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2c737350e20cd17b
* World War III NEWS, Tuesday, April 11th, 2006 AD....Bush's "Nuclear Option" -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e7dc73ae8d2b8475
* Black Scholar Fearz Future of Young Black Men - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2e5f10360af7e066
* Pimping Da Oscarz - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f989acbec3d530be
* UNA BIEN INTERESANTE DISCUSION DE OTRO FORO... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f23b2c8cf852fec6

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Secondary factors why Eyeran wants nukes
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a6b2f655b2a3f198
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 4:51 am
From: Fred J. McCall

Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:

:Andy Dingley wrote:
:> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:28:49 -0400, Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
:>
:>> That is why you have a "reprocessing plant" it is designed to handle
:>> high level radioactive material and produce low level material suitable
:>> as feed stock
:>
:> Vince, get a clue or shut up and stop embarassing yourself.
:>
:> A reprocessing plant is a fiendish bit pf engineering, because its raw
:> material is high-level waste. If all you need is a bit of uranium
:> hexafluoride to stick in a centrifuge, then start from freshly mined
:> ore. It's just the same chemical problem, but you don't have the
:> radiological hazard to deal with.
:
:not the issue

No, the ISSUE is that it is easier to start with ore than with fuel
rods out of a reactor.

You are in denial about the issue AND the facts.

:> Waste isn't reprocessed to extract uranium, because it's just too cheap
:> and easy to buy it fresh from mines. Equally there's no market for
:> reprocessing Pu from reactor waste fuel because that's even more
:> expensive (you have to design a reactor capable of burning an awkward Pu
:> or MOX fuel, not just U). Japan does it to get rid of the stuff for
:> political reasons and because BNFL's monstrous pink elephant of THORP
:> offers bargain rates just to have _something_ to work on. The economics
:> of this are what embarassed the whole reprocessing industry in the '70s
:> - it's just not _worth_ reprocessing, let alone the disposal problems.
:>
:> If you want to enrich fuel for a low-enrichment U reactor, such asa
:> PWR, then go ahead and build a centrifuge plant. It's easy and IAEA
:> won't have a problem with it. For a centrifuge capable of getting to
:> weapons grade enrichments, you're into a whole new can of woms. Even the
:> raw steel and the right sort of bearing are seriously controlled trade
:> items.
:
:We are not talking about economics we are talking about making a bomb.
:Im not saying that reprocessing is the most efficient way of getting the
:fissile material. However if you have a reactor using partially enriched
:uranium extracting the U-235 is very straight forward

Except it is now U235 with significant U236 contamination, which
complicates your bomb design.

Again, it is easier to just start with uranium ore.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 4:51 am
From: Fred J. McCall

Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
:>
:> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
:> :>
:> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> :> :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote: :> :>
:> :> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> ianparker2@gmail.com wrote: :> :> :Yes but
:> :> :> :> if you have 10,000 centrfuges and a reprocessing facility :> :>
:> :> :> :everyone knows that one could be cobbled together fairly quickly if
:> :> :> :> :> :required. Perhaps that is all that is needed for the desired
:> :> :> :> political :> :pressure. :> :> If you have 10,000 centrifuges (and
:> :> :> a :> bunch of uranium) you don't need :> a reprocessing facility. :>
:> :> :> :> :> The centrifuges are used for enriching uranium. The
:> :> :> reprocessing :> :> facility is for separating plutonium from a
:> :> :> nuclear fuel burn. The :> :> former gives you material that can
:> :> :> probably "cobbled together :> fairly :> quickly" into a (gun-type)
:> :> :> bomb if required. The latter :> gives you :> plutonium, which is a
:> :> :> much harder problem to turn into a :> working :> weapon (and
:> :> :> "cobbling" just won't get it). :> :> Please :> learn something about
:> :> :> the technologies behind what you are :> talking :> about. :
:> :> :> :Reprocessing facilities also describes extracting uranium :> from
:> :> :> spent :reactor fuel elements :> :> Which has nothing to do with
:> :> :> making a bomb, which is what is being :> talked about. The uranium
:> :> :> from fuel rods would need to be further :> enriched (and there isn't
:> :> :> enough of it to do that, generally - you're :> better off just
:> :> :> starting from tons of ore). : :nonsense. spent Reactor fuel is
:> :> :> already enriched (3-5%), so it is the :best possible feedstock for
:> :> :> the Centrifuge.
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Nope. The nuclear burn process creates uranium isotopes (like U236,
:> :> :> I think - working from memory so that may not be right) that you
:> :> :> don't want in there.
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :"A PWR has fuel assemblies of 200-300 rods each, arranged vertically
:> :> :> in :the core, and a large reactor would have about 150-250 fuel
:> :> :> assemblies :with 80-100 tonnes of uranium. : :80-100 tons of uranium
:> :> :> enriched to 5% is a huge amount of U-235 :even partially spent fuel
:> :> :> rods can be about 3% u=235
:> :> :>
:> :> :> But it's hard to get out. Easier to start with ore unless you can
:> :> :> start with a brand new core. Even then, the metal may be locked up
:> :> :> in a form where it's difficult to get back out by design.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :its not hard at all
:> :> :
:> :> : REX
:> :> :
:> :> : The PUREX process can be modified to make a UREX (URanium EXtraction)
:> :> :process which could be used to save space inside high level nuclear
:> :> :waste disposal sites, such as Yucca Mountain, by removing the uranium
:> :> :which makes up the vast majority of the mass and volume of used fuel and
:> :> :recycling it as reprocessed uranium.
:> :> :
:> :> : The UREX process is a PUREX process which has been modified to prevent
:> :> :the plutonium being extracted. This can be done by adding a plutonium
:> :> :reductant before the first metal extraction step. In the UREX process,
:> :> :~99.9% of the Uranium and >95% of Technetium are separated from each
:> :> :other and the other fission products and actinides. The key is the
:> :> :addition of acetohydroxamic acid (AHA) to the extraction and scrub
:> :> :sections of the process. The addition of AHA greatly diminishes the
:> :> :extractability of Plutonium and Neptunium, providing greater
:> :> :proliferation resistance than with the plutonium extraction stage of the
:> :> :PUREX process.
:> :> :
:> :> : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing
:> :>
:> :> I said hard, not impossible. Fuel rod reprocessing is hard, Vinnie.
:> :> That's one reason that so few countries do it.
:> :>
:> :> The fact that there IS a process doesn't mean it is an EASY process.
:> :>
:> :> And after you do what is described above, you still have your U236
:> :> problem.
:> :>
:> :> You CAN make a weapon out of uranium extracted from spent reactor
:> :> fuel, but it's much harder to do than if you start from ore. DOE did
:> :> it once as a 'science project'. It's a much more complex design.
:> :>
:> :> But you will continue to argue about things that you know practically
:> :> nothing about, won't you?
:> :
:> :OFCS
:> :this is well understood as a problem when you are down blending
:> :
:> :Process Parameters
:> :
:> :HEU Feed Assay [wt-% U-235] · [wt-% U-234] · [wt-% U-236]
:> : Weight-percent of the fissile isotope uranium-235 and of the
:> :byproducts uranium-234 and uranium-236 in the uranium contained in the
:> :HEU feed (highly enriched uranium). U-235 assays are > 20% for HEU, by
:> :definition. The assays of HEU currently being downblended are in the 40%
:> :to 90% range. U-234 is a minor isotope contained in natural uranium;
:> :during the enrichment process, its concentration increases even more
:> :than that of U-235. Caution: Upon entry of a value for the U-235 assay,
:> :or the HEU Origin or Tails Assay (see below), the calculator
:> :automatically determines a value for the U-234 assay. In case the
:> :estimated value is inappropriate, it can be overwritten.
:> : U-236 is a byproduct from irradiation in a reactor and may be
:> :contained in the HEU, depending on its manufacturing history. HEU
:> :reprocessed from nuclear weapons material production reactors may
:> :contain U-236 concentrations as high as 25%.
:> :
:> :http://www.wise-uranium.org/nfcubh.html
:> :
:> :its a well understood problem
:> :You just adjust for it.
:>
:> You can't just "adjust for it" if you're building bombs, Vinnie. It's
:> more than a minor adjustment to bomb design if the uranium contains
:> any significant quantity of U236.
:>
:> Frankly, you've gone from merely ignorant (nothing wrong with that) to
:> obstinately ignorant (lots wrong with that).
:
:it just takes more u-235

Poppycock!

The bomb design has to be different.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Queremos un gobierno que acabe con las divisiones y reconcilie a los
venezolanos. Queremos un gobierno que considere la honestidad
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ea83de8344541731
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 12:38 am
From: "PM"

Queremos un gobierno que considere la honestidad una virtud indispensable y la corrupción un crimen por el cual deben pagar aquellos que se aprovechan del poder para beneficio propio.

Hay señales perturbadoras que obligan a pensar que un cambio tan radical como fatídico se ha operado en el clima represivo que asfixia al país desde hace 7 años y lo que destaca en la realidad son más y más espacios democráticos cerrados, donde "hombres de negro" merodean, rondan y circulan, anónimos y camuflados, a la caza de alguna víctima que le permita volcar la lava de su rabia, odio, resentimiento y deseos de venganza contra quienes piensa son enemigos impenitentes e irrescatables de la "revolución".

Porque los encargados de velar por el orden público fomentan el desorden y la violencia, y lo que podrían ser unos órganos policiales, se encuentran infiltrados por el crimen. Con una colombianización galopante y un crecimiento exponencial de la riqueza, como dicen los entendidos, ya la frontera se ha metido hasta Caracas.
A ojos vistas violencia e impunidad están totalmente enquistados en los tuétanos del Estado. Y esto es crimen organizado, descomposición criminal.
Queremos un gobierno que no acepte el autoritarismo, ni el abuso de poder, ni la impunidad. Un gobierno que nos permita decir con orgullo que los oprobiosos días en que el ciudadano se sentía indefenso frente a un Estado temerario ya son cosas del pasado.
Lo dice, lo grita y vocifera día y noche, en cadenas de radio y televisión que pueden durar hasta 8 horas diarias, un jefe que auspicia una práctica criminal: "el terrorismo mediático". La libertad de expresión es una enemiga intrínseca de la revolución, culpable del colapso del socialismo real y del fin del imperio soviético, y por tanto, tan culpable como los ejércitos, partidos y organizaciones de los enemigos de clase, por lo que debe ser denunciada, perseguida y controlada como forma de apartar un gran obstáculo, un siniestro impedimento.

El caos disolutivo del chavismo no debiera provocar otra reacción que no sea un profundo deseo de renovación, de apuntar exactamente a la meta contraria a la que ha aspirado esta faena de zapa, desintegración y aniquilamiento llevado a cabo por esta revolución pretendidamente socialista y pretendidamente de izquierdas. Un deseo de acabar con el pasado - incluido estos siete años de desastres y pesadillas - para dar vuelta la página y construir el futuro. En el aborrecible espejo de sus desastres, Chávez ha contribuido a perfilar la Venezuela que aspira a lo mejor: ser moderna, progresista, democrática, joven y decente. Ser, de una vez por todas, una nueva Venezuela.

Queremos un gobierno en el que todos los ciudadanos seamos iguales ante la ley y la justicia sea imparcial.
En Venezuela no hay ninguna revolución, sino un gobierno militar que tira zamarramente el anzuelo de su preocupación por lo pobres, mientras los somete a todo tipo de privaciones, de inequidades e injusticias que los convierte, a través de su vulnerabilidad, en el ejército de reserva de la dictadura.
El país quiere liberarse de esa visión malsana, enfermiza y neurótica de su pasado. Luego de abrir la caja de Pandora de nuestros más ominosos secretos, llevados al paroxismo durante estos siete años de oprobio y vergüenza, el país reacciona y comienza a sentir los efectos de una lavativa espiritual. Llegó la hora de quitarse las costras y lavar la casa.

Queremos un gobierno que acabe con las divisiones y reconcilie a los venezolanos.
¿Qué queremos? Una revolución modernizadora. Un sacudimiento espiritual que deseche las polillas y cucarachas de este subdesarrollo congénito. Abrir las ventanas del país y aspirar el aire renovador de las nuevas corrientes de la historia. Integrarnos a la globalización, propiciar la prosperidad y el crecimiento económico, ponernos a crear con todas nuestras fuerzas un nuevo espíritu nacional. Convertirnos en una nación del primer mundo, competitiva, avanzada, tecnológicamente al día, culturalmente a la vanguardia. Llegó la hora del siglo XXI. La nueva Venezuela espera por nosotros.
Queremos un gobierno que nos lleve a la paz y no a la guerra con el mundo.

Luis García Mora, Ana Julia Jatar, Manuel Malaver, Armando Durán, Antonio Sánchez García y Alberto Rodríguez Barrera

-
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/
http://galeon.hispavista.com/cienfuegoscuba/Fotos_2

--
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/
http://galeon.hispavista.com/cienfuegoscuba/Fotos_2005.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hersh vs. Bush: Who Would You Believe?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ba628ff46dad22bc
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:54 pm
From: "Möbius Pretzel"

NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org wrote:

> Hersh vs. Bush: Who Would You Believe?
>
> CounterPunch - Apr 14, 2006
> http://www.counterpunch.org/zeese04142006.html
>
> Attacking Iran
>
> Hersh vs. Bush: Who Would You Believe?
>
> By KEVIN ZEESE
>
> Seymour Hersh's extensive article describing plans to attack Iran, including
> the use of tactical nuclear weapons, has forced President Bush to respond.
> Two days after Hersh's article appeared, President Bush came forward to deny
> any intent to attack Iran--calling such claims 'wild speculation.'

The Bush Regime is planning another 9/11 style attack.

> Hersh begins his article in the New Yorker explaining the real purpose of
> attack on Iran: "There is a growing conviction among members of the United
> States military, and in the international community, that President Bush's
> ultimate goal in the nuclear confrontation with Iran is regime change."
>
> In response, President Bush said allegations that he plans to use force to
> halt Iran's nuclear program are "wild speculation." He went on to say that
> his focus is on diplomacy: "I know here in Washington prevention means
> force. It doesn't mean force necessarily. In this case it means diplomacy."
> When Donald Rumsfeld, the embattled Secretary of State, was asked about
> planning for Iran he was evasive saying "The last thing I'm going to do is
> to start telling you or anyone else in the press or the world at what point
> we refresh a plan or don't refresh a plan and why."
>
> Hersh seemed to expect this response writing before Bush spoke:
>
> "The Bush Administration, while publicly advocating diplomacy in order
> to stop Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon, has increased clandestine
> activities inside Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air
> attack. Current and former American military and intelligence officials said
> that Air Force planning groups are drawing up lists of targets, and teams of
> American combat troops have been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect
> targeting data and to establish contact with anti-government ethnic-minority
> groups."
>
> And when asked about Bush's comments, Hersh told Amy Goodman on Democracy
> Now: "It's simply a fact that the planning has gone beyond the contingency
> stage, and it's gone into what they call the operational stage, sort of an
> increment higher. And it's very serious planning, of course. And it's all
> being directed at the wish of the President of the United States. And I can
> understand why they don't want to talk about it, but that's just the
> reality."
>
>
>
> Pressure is Mounting to Attack Iran--a Long-Term Target of the Bush
> Administration
>
> Adding credibility to Hersh's claims is that removing those in power in Iran
> has been supported by many neo-cons since before Bush took office. It is
> consistent with the re-making of the Middle East, called for by the Project
> for a New American Century, as part of ensuring U.S. military and economic
> dominance of the world.
>
> In addition, a paper published by an Israeli think tank, the Institute for
> Advanced Strategic and Political Studies in 1996 entitled "A Clean Break: A
> New Strategy for Securing the Realm," written for Benjamin Netanyahu, set
> out a plan for Israel to "shape its strategic environment," beginning with
> the removal of Saddam Hussein and restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq.
> With Iraq transformed, they describe a strategic axis of Iraq, Jordan and
> Turkey that would weaken and "roll back" Syria and divide the Shia'a in Iraq
> with those in Iran and Syria.
>
> The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), another
> hard-line advocacy group, has advocated "regime change" by any means
> necessary in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority.
> JINSA's board of advisers has included many Bush administration leaders:
> Dick Cheney, John Bolton, Richard Perle, James Woolsey and Douglas Feith.
> JINSA now sees Iran as THE security threat saying in an April 12 JINSA
> Report entitled "Iran, Iran, Iran and Iran:"
>
> "Whatever we do in Iraq and whatever Iraqi politicians do; whatever we
> do to Hamas; however hard we look for Bin Laden or al-Zawahiri; whoever runs
> our port terminals; whatever the price of gasoline; however we secure our
> borders; whoever leaked Valerie Plame's name - under the shadow of a
> nuclear-capable Iran, American and allied options are reduced."
>
> Iran, they say, is "the whole list of national security priorities."
>
> The current pressure to attack Iran is building. The hard right Israeli
> lobby in the United States is advocating attacking Iran to stop the
> development of nuclear weapons. A full page advertisement in The New York
> Times on April 4 on page A-15 sponsored by the American Jewish Committee
> urged an attack on Iran drawing a map with Iran in the center showing how
> far it is from various countries in Asia, Europe and African asking: "Can
> anyone within range of Iran's missiles feel safe?"
>
> Just as the pro-Israel lobby beat the war drums for the invasion of Iraq,
> they are doing the same for Iran. AIPAC, the powerful pro-Israeli lobby has
> a special page on Iran's escalating threat. The concern of many has been
> heightened by reported comments by Iran's President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
> challenging the reality of the Holocaust and that Israel must be "wiped off
> the map."
>
> The recent announcement by Ahmadinejad that Iran has enriched uranium in a
> 164-centrifuge network to 3.5% has heightened the conflict further.
> Ahmadinejad says Iran must now be treated as a nuclear country and that it
> plans to continue to develop nuclear power. This is far from the level of
> enrichment needed for a nuclear weapon--requiring at least 80% enrichment
> and thousands of centrifuges. Iran says it plans to go ahead and construct a
> 3,000 centrifuge network at the Natanz facility within a year and eventually
> expand to 54,000 centrifuges. Developing enriched uranium for nuclear power
> is legal under the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty but the UN Security
> Council has given Iran until April 28 to suspend uranium enrichment.
>
> Further, much to the chagrin of the Bush administration, the Iraq invasion
> has strengthened Iran. Noted Middle East commentator, Juan Cole, has
> described Iran as the real victor in the Iraq War. Iran has been able to
> establish warm relations with the government in Iraq. To have a member of
> the axis of evil strengthened as result of U.S. policy is an unintended
> consequence the U.S cannot let stand.
>
> Problems mounting in Iraq are a two-edged sword. On one side the U.S.
> military is stretched thin and exhausted and opening another front in the
> Middle East--with a country four times the size of Iraq--would seem to be
> physically impossible. And, an air campaign would be a challenge with an
> estimated 400 sites that would need to be targeted. In addition, there are
> concerns about an alliance between the Shia community in Iraq and Shia
> dominated Iran making the difficult Iraq situation even more challenging.
> Then, there are the unpredictable economic impacts--oil prices, already high
> could jump higher and the reaction of Wall Street and the markets could also
> be
>
> But, the other edge of the Iraq-quagmire sword increases the chance of an
> attack on Iran. Certainly, the administration would prefer to have
> discussion of war strategy instead of the fighting in Iraq. And video of
> precision air attacks bombing alleged nuclear facilities in Iran will be
> preferred to civilian deaths in Iraq. As former national security adviser
> Norman Birnbaum recently said "I fear what the French term a fuite en
> avance, a flight in advance, and an attack on Iran."
>
>
> Is Diplomacy Possible? Is it Really Being Pursued?
>
> Pursuing diplomacy is complicated by President Bush's rhetoric. Four years
> ago Iran was labeled by President Bush as part of the "axis of evil." Since
> then the United States has surrounded the country with troops in Afghanistan
> on its western border, Iraq on its eastern border and the Persian Gulf in
> the south. And, the rhetoric is escalating.
>
> Since the Iranian Revolution the US has had no formal diplomatic ties with
> Iran. According to a report in the New York Times, in the lead-up to the
> 2003 Iraq War, Iran reportedly made an overture to U.S. officials to begin
> what former U.S. policymaker Flynt Leverett, a former national security
> adviser, State Department and CIA official says there was 'a diplomatic
> process intended to resolve on a comprehensive basis all the bilateral
> differences between the United States and Iran.' The United States did not
> take up the offer. Leverett says that Bush "is, on this issue, very, very
> resistant to the idea of doing a deal, even a deal that would solve the
> nuclear problem." So, is the administration serious about diplomacy?
>
> Leverett's view is consistent with one stated by Javad Zarif, the Iranian
> ambassador to the United Nations, in a NY Times op-ed on April 6. Zarif made
> the point that "A solution to the situation is possible and eminently within
> reach." And, he emphasized that Iran has complied with the Nuclear
> Nonproliferation Treaty, indeed, would like to see it strengthened and
> enhanced. Further, "Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the leader of the Islamic
> Republic, has issued a decree against the development, production,
> stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons."
>
> Further, he points out that Iran wants "stability" and "never initiated the
> use of force or resorted to the threat of force against a fellow member of
> the United Nations. Although chemical weapons have been used on us, we have
> never used them in retaliation - as United Nations reports have made clear.
> We have not invaded another country in 250 years." The article also
> highlights how Iran has gone above and beyond the inspection requirements of
> the UN. Zarif concludes saying: "Finding solutions requires political will
> and a readiness to engage in serious negotiations. Iran is ready."
>
> Not only is the President's rhetoric and record a problem for diplomacy, but
> so is modern U.S. history with Iran. In 1953, the Eisenhower administration
> engaged in public rhetorical attacks on Iran when they nationalized the oil
> industry, seizing a British oil company. The CIA overthrew the democratic
> government of Mohammed Mossadegh working with Great Britain and installed
> the Shah of Iran.
>
> The most recent Democratic Secretary of State, Madeline Albright, excused
> the U.S. overthrow of Mossadegh saying in 2000 that: "The Eisenhower
> administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons.
> But the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development and it
> is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by
> America."
>
> Just as Albright excused the overthrow by a Republican president, there is
> essential silence by the Democrats in response to the Bush administration's
> talk of bombing Iran. While some Democrats have opposed the use of nuclear
> weapons, they have not opposed the idea of attacking Iran with non-nuclear
> weapons. Senator Hilary Clinton has said that a nuclear-armed Iran would be
> "unacceptable." Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House
> describes Iran as "the greatest threat to Israel's right to exist." Senator
> John Kerry, told Meet the Press on April 10, that he favored keeping the
> option of air strikes against Iran on the table. The strongest opposition to
> attacking Iran has come from Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) who notes there is little
> resistance in Congress and it appears we have not learned anything from
> three years in Iraq.
>
> Hersh reports on a Member of the House of Representatives describing
> meetings where carefully selected Members have been briefed on Iran, he
> writes: "'There's no pressure from Congress' not to take military action,
> the House member added. 'The only political pressure is from the guys who
> want to do it.' Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, 'The most
> worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision.'"
>
> If diplomacy means gaining international support then the Bush
> administration has problems. There is opposition to an attack on Iran around
> the world. The U.S. may only have Israel as a serious ally in a military
> attack. The Washington Post reports that the Russians and Chinese won't even
> go along with economic sanctions. And in the recent security council
> resolution Russia and China edited out the threat of sanctions if Iran did
> not stop its enrichment of uranium. Further, Saudi Arabia has asked Russia
> to use its position on the Security Council to prevent a U.S. military
> attack on Iran. Even Great Britain is unlikely to participate in an Iran
> attack.
>
> The consensus seems to be that while many would prefer Iran not to have a
> nuclear weapon, Iran is certainly not an immediate threat to the U.S. or
> surrounding countries. U.S. intelligence agencies and Hans Blix, chief UN
> weapons inspector have reported that Iran having a bomb is five to ten years
> away. As author Mike Whitney point out, "IAEA chief Mohammed Elbaradei has
> repeatedly stated that his team of inspectors, who've had the opportunity to
> "go anywhere and see anything," has found nothing to corroborate the
> assertions of the US or Israel."
>
> Further, would Iran use a nuclear weapon offensively? Iran does not have any
> modern history of attacking other countries. Certainly, with Israel having
> 250 nuclear bombs and the U.S. with its large arsenal, would leave Iran to
> recognize that the use of the bomb would result in the destruction of Iran.
> A nuclear response would be something that Israel and the U.S. could easily
> justify and the world would accept.
>
>
> Hersh is Not Alone Reporting on Iran Attack Planning, Including Nuclear
> Weapons
>
> Sy Hersh is not the only one reporting on military plans being developed.
> According to Philip Giraldi, writing in the American Conservative, last year
> Vice President Cheney ordered the Strategic Command to develop plans to
> attack Iran if there is another 9-11 type attack on the United States. These
> plans include a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional
> and tactical nuclear weapons.
>
> Giraldi points out that within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic
> targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development
> sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could
> not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in
> the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being
> involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Giraldi
> reports that several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are
> appalled at the implications of what they are doing--that Iran is being set
> up for an unprovoked nuclear attack--but no one is prepared to damage his
> career by posing any objections.
>
> Further, the Washington Post also wrote that intense planning was underway
> including the nuclear option in an article published on April 9. The Post
> reports that while U.S. officials continue to pursue the diplomatic course
> they privately are increasingly skeptical that it will succeed. And, that
> last month the White House's new National Security Strategy labeled Iran the
> most serious challenge to the United States posed by any country. They
> described two levels of air attack--a quick and limited strike against
> nuclear-related facilities and a more ambitious campaign of bombing and
> cruise missiles leveling targets well beyond nuclear facilities. The White
> House is also considering 'nuclear penetrator munitions' to take out buried
> labs.
>
> Hersh describes specific plans using tactical nuclear weapons stating:
>
> "One of the military's initial option plans, as presented to the White
> House by the Pentagon this winter, calls for the use of a bunker-buster
> tactical nuclear weapon, such as the B61-11, against underground nuclear
> sites. One target is Iran's main centrifuge plant, at Natanz, nearly two
> hundred miles south of Tehran. Natanz, which is no longer under I.A.E.A.
> safeguards, reportedly has underground floor space to hold fifty thousand
> centrifuges, and laboratories and workspaces buried approximately
> seventy-five feet beneath the surface. That number of centrifuges could
> provide enough enriched uranium for about twenty nuclear warheads a year.
> (Iran has acknowledged that it initially kept the existence of its
> enrichment program hidden from I.A.E.A. inspectors, but claims that none of
> its current activity is barred by the Non-Proliferation Treaty.) The
> elimination of Natanz would be a major setback for Iran's nuclear ambitions,
> but the conventional weapons in the American arsenal could not insure the
> destruction of facilities under seventy-five feet of earth and rock,
> especially if they are reinforced with concrete."
>
> Hersh describes the nuclear option as creating "serious misgivings inside
> the offices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff," with "some officers have talked
> about resigning. Late this winter, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sought to
> remove the nuclear option from the evolving war plans for Iran-without
> success . . ." Further "some senior officers and officials were considering
> resigning over the issue" and "the Joint Chiefs had agreed to give President
> Bush a formal recommendation stating that they are strongly opposed to
> considering the nuclear option for Iran."
>
> Hersh also comments that the Defense Science board, chaired by William
> Schneider, Jr., an Under-Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration,
> which has urged the development of tactical nuclear weapons. Schneider
> served on an ad-hoc panel on nuclear forces sponsored by the National
> Institute for Public Policy, a conservative think tank in January 2001.
> Hersh states: "The panel's report recommended treating tactical nuclear
> weapons as an essential part of the U.S. arsenal and noted their suitability
> 'for those occasions when the certain and prompt destruction of high
> priority targets is essential and beyond the promise of conventional
> weapons.' Several signers of the report are now prominent members of the
> Bush Administration, including Stephen Hadley, the national-security
> adviser; Stephen Cambone, the Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence;
> and Robert Joseph, the Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and
> International Security."
>
> While seeking to stop Iran, the Bush Administration has made upgrading US
> nuclear weapons a key goal. The Los Angles Times reported on April 6 that
> "The administration . . . wants the capability to turn out 125 new nuclear
> bombs per year by 2022, as the Pentagon retires older bombs that it claims
> will no longer be reliable or safe." The last nuclear bomb was built in 1989
> but the Bush plan also "calls for a modern complex to design a new nuclear
> bomb and have it ready in less than four years, allowing the nation to
> respond to changing military requirements."
>
> Thus, the Bush administration is moving to upgrade U.S. nuclear weapons,
> develop tactical nuclear weapons and even use nuclear weapons against
> Iran--in an effort to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. The irony
> (or is it irany) of this hypocrisy will not be lost on the world and it is
> likely to further weaken U.S. alliances around the world.
>
>
> Who to Trust Hersh or Bush?
>
> So, back to the original question--who to believe the commander in chief or
> the investigative reporter. Sy Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter
> who gained international fame for exposing the My Lai massacre in Vietnam
> and more recently the Abu Ghraib prison scandal.
>
> President Bush has most recently been tied to the leak of a CIA agents name
> in retaliation of her husband's report criticizing claims related to nuclear
> weapons in Iraq. He has been widely criticized for exaggerating the threat
> of Iraq regarding weapons of mass destruction. And he has claimed that the
> United States does not torture people it detains, when photographs and other
> evidence indicate that it does.
>
> Right now the U.S. public is divided on attacking Iran. The Los Angeles
> Times reports that 48% would support an attack if Iran continued to develop
> nuclear weapons, while 40% opposed. In January a Times/Bloomberg poll found
> 57% support so support is dropping. But, there is loss of trust in Bush,
> with 54% saying they do not expect him to make the right decision. Bloomberg
> reports that only 37% of Americans believe Bush when he claims progress is
> being made on Iraq. And, according to a Washington Post poll, 55% of
> Americans do not find Bush to be "honest and trustworthy." So, Bush has a
> lot to overcome to convince the public to believe him on Iraq.
>
> Hersh obviously struck a cord deep enough that the president felt he had to
> respond. Hopefully, shining the light on the plans to go to war will result
> in a more informed electorate and opposition in Congress that stops the
> expansion of the war in the Middle East.
>
> Join CounterPunch, Democracy Rising, Gold Star Families for Peace, CODE
> PINK, Progressive Democrats of America, Democrats.com, Traprock Peace
> Center, Global Exchange, Velvet Revolution, Truthout, OpEdNews, Backbone
> Campaign, Consumers For Peace, Campus Antiwar Network, and The Young Turks
> in signing a petition to Bush and Cheney opposing the launching of a war of
> aggression against Iran. The petition, with all the signatures and comments
> you add, will be delivered to the White House by Cindy Sheehan and many
> other activists.http://www.dontattackiran.org
>
> Help build a voting bloc to prevent future wars of aggression--sign the
> voters pledge at http://www.VotersForPeace.US.
>
> [Kevin Zeese is director of Democracy Rising (http://DemocracyRising.US)
> and a candidate for U.S. Senate (see http://ZeeseForSeate.org)]
>
>
> *
> ================================================================
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> yC9FT8pE0HszKgT9WFHl0cM=
> =vU3b
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:07 pm
From: "Joseph Welch"

"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid> wrote in
message news:8ji342569hj1n80l9piqkq9qdd54p8i4b0@4ax.com...

> I believe Hersh because of his track record.

Hersch predicted a U.S. attack in Iran for the summer of 2005. Hersch's
track record on predicting attacks on Iran are 0 for 0.

Look:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/hersh.iran/

--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE FIRST TERRORIST PEOPLE
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/904401dc574f729b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 2:55 pm
From: "Bloggs"

"Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
news:1145155896.949997.122200@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> princeandy made a whiny attempt to write:
>> THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY TERRORIST TRAINING
>>
>
> So fly over here and open your training facility.
>
>>
>> Arab labourers who wait on tables, pick vegetables, haul garbage, lay
>> bricks
>>
>
> And then they threw the bricks and broke out their AKs for effect.
>
> Quit apologizing for terrorists. Do you think they will remember your
> appeasing personality as they drop a Kassam rocket on your house. I
> doubt it.

Don't you think the Palestinians might behave better if they were given a
fair go?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 5:01 am
From: "DoD"

"Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4441ccad$0$15350$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>
> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
> news:1145155896.949997.122200@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> princeandy made a whiny attempt to write:
>>> THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY TERRORIST TRAINING
>>>
>>
>> So fly over here and open your training facility.
>>
>>>
>>> Arab labourers who wait on tables, pick vegetables, haul garbage, lay
>>> bricks
>>>
>>
>> And then they threw the bricks and broke out their AKs for effect.
>>
>> Quit apologizing for terrorists. Do you think they will remember your
>> appeasing personality as they drop a Kassam rocket on your house. I
>> doubt it.
>
> Don't you think the Palestinians might behave better if they were given a
> fair go?

So called Palestinians have been givin better than a fair share..... More so
than any group on this planet that is far more deserving.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 3:32 pm
From: "Bloggs"

"DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
news:Qck0g.17$k.7@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4441ccad$0$15350$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>>
>> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
>> news:1145155896.949997.122200@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> princeandy made a whiny attempt to write:
>>>> THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY TERRORIST TRAINING
>>>>
>>>
>>> So fly over here and open your training facility.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arab labourers who wait on tables, pick vegetables, haul garbage, lay
>>>> bricks
>>>>
>>>
>>> And then they threw the bricks and broke out their AKs for effect.
>>>
>>> Quit apologizing for terrorists. Do you think they will remember your
>>> appeasing personality as they drop a Kassam rocket on your house. I
>>> doubt it.
>>
>> Don't you think the Palestinians might behave better if they were given a
>> fair go?
>
> So called Palestinians have been givin better than a fair share..... More
> so than any group on this planet that is far more deserving.

You're really stupid.

>
>

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 5:36 am
From: "DoD"

"Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4441d544$0$15318$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>
> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
> news:Qck0g.17$k.7@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> "Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4441ccad$0$15350$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>>>
>>> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1145155896.949997.122200@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> princeandy made a whiny attempt to write:
>>>>> THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY TERRORIST TRAINING
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So fly over here and open your training facility.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Arab labourers who wait on tables, pick vegetables, haul garbage, lay
>>>>> bricks
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And then they threw the bricks and broke out their AKs for effect.
>>>>
>>>> Quit apologizing for terrorists. Do you think they will remember your
>>>> appeasing personality as they drop a Kassam rocket on your house. I
>>>> doubt it.
>>>
>>> Don't you think the Palestinians might behave better if they were given
>>> a fair go?
>>
>> So called Palestinians have been givin better than a fair share..... More
>> so than any group on this planet that is far more deserving.
>
> You're really stupid.

That was really effective...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WITH FRIENDS LIKE KIKES, AMERICA NEEDS NO ENEMIES!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/cd9b460263d94174
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 2:56 pm
From: "Bloggs"

"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:4441967F.177DB321@io.com...
> jsp722@gmail.com wrote:
>>AnonMoos wrote:
>>>Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:443BF607.803CFFE9@io.com...
>>>>>"Ben Cramer" <[remove]bencramer7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:44384A59.D7975A96@io.com...
>>>>>>>"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:4437AAD2.913BEE6B@io.com...
>>>>>>>>>jsp722@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>> I H V H
>
>>>>>>>>> You're confused about the pronunciation of the consonants of
>>>>>>>>> the Tetragrammaton.
>
>>>>>>>> Ask Moose!
>
>>>>>>> You should -- the Biblical Hebrew sound-system is one of my
>>>>>>> strongest areas...
>
>>>>>> Gosh! Such a significantly important skill to possess. Bet
>>>>>> you're headhunted constantly.
>
>>>>> It sometimes comes in handy when showing up the pretensions of
>>>>> ignoramus bigots...
>
>>>> And when does this venture of yours commence?
>
>>> "jsp722@gmail.com" is too pathetic to waste much effort on, but
>>> I've been correcting glaring errors for a long time -- see
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.palestine/browse_thread/thread/1eb6bb1deabe91e/
>>> or (from the other side), my very recent post
>>> URL:<news:443FB01E.34CF4DA5@io.com>
>
>> I understand your perplexity.
>
> I'm not in the slightest perplexed -- just contemptuous of your
> bigoted ignorance.
>
>> I H V H
>
> You're still confused about the pronunciation of the consonants of
> the Tetragrammaton.

It probably makes any difference to no more than a handful of people
worldwide. Totally insignificant.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Fateful Hour has Arrived . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/68f9d71f4e6c36bb
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:57 pm
From: "fuckyourfakewarforoilcorporations"

that rhymes with fuck you arab piece of shit, fuck you in your wifes
berkad ass

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .............Y.................. ... CRISTO RESUCITÓ
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1aec61be391c6dad
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 12:47 am
From: "PM"

Y CRISTO RESUCITÓ
Por José Ignacio Rivero

El domingo de Pascua de Resurrección del año 1960 publicábamos en La Habana una “Carta sin Sobre” dirigida al R.P. Vasco de Barra, O.F.M. (franciscano) en respuesta a una suya en la que se despedía de nosotros porque el régimen castrista lo obligaba a salir de Cuba en un plazo de breves horas por “enemigo del pueblo”.

El Padre Vasco de Barra escribía en nuestro Diario de la Marina sin pelos en la “pluma” y sin importarle las amenazas ni los insultos de los comunistas.

Vamos a continuación –por la oportunidad de la fecha—a traer a esta columna de hoy parte de nuestra respuesta en cuestión:

***

“Ayer, sábado Santo, día en que los hombres, hace dos mil años, sellaron la sepultura del Justo, del Hijo de Dios hecho Hombre, que murió para salvarnos, publiqué su carta de despedida. De despedida a Cuba y al Diario de la Marina, porque se le declara a usted “enemigo del pueblo”.

“Yo le respondo, más con el corazón que con la pluma, hoy, Domingo de Resurrección, día en que Cristo salió triunfante del sepulcro a donde lo llevaron el pecado y la ceguera de los hombres, a quienes El mismo vino a redimir.

“No importa estimado Padre que usted se despida o lo despidan por haber dicho la verdad que aquí tanto quieren deformar. Se marcha usted cumpliendo con Dios, con lo justo y con su conciencia. Y se marcha con un amago de dolor, con una tristeza seca, con un corazón que palpita ante los dolores y sufrimientos que ya no podrá aliviar, aminorar o evitar, según usted dice. Pero yo le digo, Padre, sin ser sacerdote, aunque sí humilde soldado de Cristo también, que alivie ese dolor y esa tristeza que le deja en su corazón esta despedida amarga, esta muerte que parece y no lo es; porque hoy Domingo de Resurrección los cristianos vemos más claro que el que está con El no se despide ni muere nunca: vive, aunque muera un poco cada día, por vivir entre los hombres.

“En efecto, a Cristo lo atormentaron y lo llevaron a la cruz haciendo el bien y señalando el camino de la verdad. Y luego sellaron su sepultura. Y pusieron guardias en ella. Pero el fin de las tinieblas llegó y de lo más obscuro brotó una nueva aurora, una aurora desconocida: la aurora de la Redención.

“¡Y Cristo resucitó!”

“Me asombra que mientras nuestra frontera está abierta de par en par a tantos indeseables y gentes sin patria, porque no aman a la propia, para servir al peor tirano de todos los tiranos, que se llama el imperialismo ruso, se les cierren las puertas de la Cuba que usted quiere tanto y a la que tanto bien ha hecho con sinceros artículos.

“Puede llevar usted la certeza de que Cuba no le echa. De que queda usted como un sacerdote benemérito, como un buen franciscano que ha cumplido ante Dios y ante todos los cubanos católicos con su sagrada obligación, exponiéndose a que se le tratase como a ‘enemigo del pueblo’... ¡Cuándo resulta usted todo lo contrario! Y eso, nuestro buen pueblo se lo demostrará algún día.

“Por eso debe marcharse usted tranquilo, aunque crea ‘morir un poco’ en su despedida. Así se marchó Cristo del Huerto después del beso de Judas, mientras dormían sus discípulos, hacia la muerte por nosotros para luego resucitar...

“Marche usted tranquilo, Padre Barra, y lleve la certeza de que usted queda en el corazón de los cubanos, que somos la inmensa mayoría. De nuestros corazones no le podrá echar nadie... En el mío quedará para siempre.

“Su también mal comprendido, por algunos hermanos, y afectísimo en Cristo, José Ignacio Rivero”

***

Algo más de cuatro décadas después de aquella despedida de Cuba le decimos al Padre Vasco de Barra donde quiera que se encuentre, aun en la tierra o ya en el Cielo: Gracias Padre, muchas gracias por habernos acompañado en la denuncia pública en Cuba contra las injusticias que se estaban cometiendo en nuestra patria.

***

JIRivero@aol.com
Dirección postal:

José I. Rivero P.O.Box 566641

Miami, Fla. 33256

Received From: LavozdeCubaLibre@aol.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Chachi Novellas Bengochea
Delray Beach, Florida U.S.A.
Scanned by Norton Internet Security Professional.
Group: ForFreedom-Justice
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CUBAN SUGAR MARKET & THE US GOV.- Learn the true reasons that keep Castro in power. The "hidden" power manipulating the US Government, and the resultant corruption of its institutions. Read Lieber's book: Rats In The Grain, and watch the documentary: COVERING CUBA 4: The Rats Below. Film exposes sugar price control by ADM, owners of Wash. DC. Order your DVD copy at: www.CubaCollectibles.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DEAD-END DEBATES
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/6af889c7df24e826
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 3:04 pm
From: "Bloggs"

"DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
news:4Od0g.164$Xh.77@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:PwY%f.657$iB2.143@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
>> news:1145063568.454118.270890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> serwad wrote:
>>>> IF YOU GET RID OF ALL THE ARABS, THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEMS
>>>> IN MIDDLE EAST!
>>
>> THAT WILL BE THE DAY, "CHOSEN" ARSEHOLE
>
> First all, there are a lot of Jews that don't like the concept of being
> considered chosen. That is an idea that came from Christianity, how in the
> world that happened is beyond me, since Europe has always been
> anti-Semitic. Over here in the U.S. the evan jellicals, and other
> Protestants have given it a favorable conotation Personally I don't like
> chosen, as that implies someone is better than me, and I don't see it that
> way.

A lot of the people posting here are better than you. You're rather stupid.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 5:11 am
From: "DoD"

"Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4441ced5$0$15326$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>
> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
> news:4Od0g.164$Xh.77@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:PwY%f.657$iB2.143@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1145063568.454118.270890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> serwad wrote:
>>>>> IF YOU GET RID OF ALL THE ARABS, THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEMS
>>>>> IN MIDDLE EAST!
>>>
>>> THAT WILL BE THE DAY, "CHOSEN" ARSEHOLE
>>
>> First all, there are a lot of Jews that don't like the concept of being
>> considered chosen. That is an idea that came from Christianity, how in
>> the world that happened is beyond me, since Europe has always been
>> anti-Semitic. Over here in the U.S. the evan jellicals, and other
>> Protestants have given it a favorable conotation Personally I don't like
>> chosen, as that implies someone is better than me, and I don't see it
>> that way.
>
> A lot of the people posting here are better than you.

Nope, I am the creme de la creme........

> You're rather stupid.

You are rather someone that is one of the ding dong regulars.... you are
definately not new.... Probably someone that finally everyone ignored so you
changed Nyms.... tisk tisk...

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 3:29 pm
From: "Bloggs"

"DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
news:zmk0g.19$k.2@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4441ced5$0$15326$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>>
>> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
>> news:4Od0g.164$Xh.77@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:PwY%f.657$iB2.143@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1145063568.454118.270890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> serwad wrote:
>>>>>> IF YOU GET RID OF ALL THE ARABS, THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEMS
>>>>>> IN MIDDLE EAST!
>>>>
>>>> THAT WILL BE THE DAY, "CHOSEN" ARSEHOLE
>>>
>>> First all, there are a lot of Jews that don't like the concept of being
>>> considered chosen. That is an idea that came from Christianity, how in
>>> the world that happened is beyond me, since Europe has always been
>>> anti-Semitic. Over here in the U.S. the evan jellicals, and other
>>> Protestants have given it a favorable conotation Personally I don't
>>> like chosen, as that implies someone is better than me, and I don't see
>>> it that way.
>>
>> A lot of the people posting here are better than you.
>
> Nope, I am the creme de la creme........
>
>> You're rather stupid.
>
> You are rather someone that is one of the ding dong regulars.... you are
> definately not new.... Probably someone that finally everyone ignored so
> you changed Nyms.... tisk tisk...

You're partly right. I've been lurking for a few weeks.

>
>
>

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 5:37 am
From: "DoD"

"Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4441d4c4$0$15305$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>
> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
> news:zmk0g.19$k.2@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> "Bloggs" <Bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4441ced5$0$15326$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>>>
>>> "DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
>>> news:4Od0g.164$Xh.77@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>> "serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:PwY%f.657$iB2.143@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Evron" <mossad@ziontimes.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1145063568.454118.270890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> serwad wrote:
>>>>>>> IF YOU GET RID OF ALL THE ARABS, THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEMS
>>>>>>> IN MIDDLE EAST!
>>>>>
>>>>> THAT WILL BE THE DAY, "CHOSEN" ARSEHOLE
>>>>
>>>> First all, there are a lot of Jews that don't like the concept of being
>>>> considered chosen. That is an idea that came from Christianity, how in
>>>> the world that happened is beyond me, since Europe has always been
>>>> anti-Semitic. Over here in the U.S. the evan jellicals, and other
>>>> Protestants have given it a favorable conotation Personally I don't
>>>> like chosen, as that implies someone is better than me, and I don't see
>>>> it that way.
>>>
>>> A lot of the people posting here are better than you.
>>
>> Nope, I am the creme de la creme........
>>
>>> You're rather stupid.
>>
>> You are rather someone that is one of the ding dong regulars.... you are
>> definately not new.... Probably someone that finally everyone ignored so
>> you changed Nyms.... tisk tisk...
>
> You're partly right. I've been lurking for a few weeks.

Hardly.... You are nothing new.... just a redo on a handle...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Islam has four times as many young men of fighting age as the west
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/224b0236d0f9929f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 1:05 pm
From: "Peace"

The world has about 10 Million Jews vs. more than a billion Muslims. Who
rules? Its brains that count not numbers!

Mass production of cheap and inferior goods will be of no benefit to
humanity.

"habshi" <hi@anony> wrote in message
news:444193e2.38197184@news.clara.net...
> The west is doomed . its population is collapsing as women
> have just one child each . Britain will fall from 50m whites to just
> 5m by the end of this century. Hindus, Jews too have small families
> not replacing themselves. Evolution favours the prolfic and soon Islam
> will take over the planet as an aging west refuses to let its
> vanishing children to fight .
>
> excerpt telegraph.co.uk
>
> Last year, it was after another khalvat that Ahmadinejad announced his
> intention to stand for president. Now, he boasts that the Imam gave
> him the presidency for a single task: provoking a "clash of
> civilisations" in which the Muslim world, led by Iran, takes on the
> "infidel" West, led by the United States, and defeats it in a slow but
> prolonged contest that, in military jargon, sounds like a low
> intensity, asymmetrical war.
>
> In Ahmadinejad's analysis, the rising Islamic "superpower" has
> decisive advantages over the infidel. Islam has four times as many
> young men of fighting age as the West, with its ageing populations.
> Hundreds of millions of Muslim "ghazis" (holy raiders) are keen to
> become martyrs while the infidel youths, loving life and fearing
> death, hate to fight. Islam also has four-fifths of the world's oil
> reserves, and so controls the lifeblood of the infidel. More
> importantly, the US, the only infidel power still capable of fighting,
> is hated by most other nations.
>
> According to this analysis, spelled out in commentaries by
> Ahmadinejad's strategic guru, Hassan Abassi, known as the "Dr
> Kissinger of Islam", President George W Bush is an aberration, an
> exception to a rule under which all American presidents since Truman,
> when faced with serious setbacks abroad, have "run away". Iran's
> current strategy, therefore, is to wait Bush out. And that, by "divine
> coincidence", corresponds to the time Iran needs to develop its
> nuclear arsenal, thus matching the only advantage that the infidel
> enjoys.
>
> Moments after Ahmadinejad announced "the atomic miracle", the head of
> the Iranian nuclear project, Ghulamreza Aghazadeh, unveiled plans for
> manufacturing 54,000 centrifuges, to enrich enough uranium for
> hundreds of nuclear warheads. "We are going into mass production," he
> boasted.
>
> The Iranian plan is simple: playing the diplomatic game for another
> two years until Bush becomes a "lame-duck", unable to take military
> action against the mullahs, while continuing to develop nuclear
> weapons.
>
> Thus do not be surprised if, by the end of the 12 days still left of
> the United Nations' Security Council "deadline", Ahmadinejad announces
> a "temporary suspension" of uranium enrichment as a "confidence
> building measure". Also, don't be surprised if some time in June he
> agrees to ask the Majlis (the Islamic parliament) to consider signing
> the additional protocols of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty
> (NPT).
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bangla Terrorist Groups Involved In Varanasi Bomb Blats
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ee4fc3538a948b81
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:22 pm
From: "baani"

My response marked as $$$
Seeker wrote:

> "baani" <baani.t@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145087408.277044.315110@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> > Response marked @@@
> > Seeker wrote:
> > > <baani.t@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1144998174.933930.325440@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > My response marked as #
> > > > Seeker wrote:
> > > > > "baani" <baani.t@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:1144910496.293902.314030@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > Seeker wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Accounting rules are different in every country. You can't learn
> all
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > accounting by reading websites etc. It is a complicated matter
> > > because
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the very reasons we are having this discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seeker,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Accounting principles for all countries remain the same in the
> > > > > > entire world . All countries publish their financial data as per
> the
> > > > > > International Accounting Standards ( IAS).
> > > > >
> > > > > In the US it is FASB. Trust me accounting is very difficult. It is
> one
> > > of
> > > > > the hardest business class. I am not talking about debits and
> credits.
> > > >
> > > > # In India it is AS issued by ICAI. But the basis will remain the
> same.
> > > > All the countries follow IAS while framing the accounting policies.
> > >
> > > Once again, it is not true for every country. As I stated before in the
> US
> > > FASB sets the standards and the compliance to its standards is
> voluntary.
> > >
> > @@@ Really!!! Implementation of all US GAAPs is voluntary or a few?
>
> Compliance to GAAP and FASB standards is voluntariy. FASB has no legal
> authority in the US.
>
> > Check it out .. And we are not discussing USA.. We were discussing
> > Pakistan..
>
> You said the whole world uses IAS, I just proved to you that the whole world
> does not. Is it hard to understand this for you?

$$$ Still hold my statement that before formulating their accounting
policies all the countries refer to IAS. Also if they are not adhereing
to the commonly accepted principles they will disclose it
> > > > > What will differ are the
> > > > > > rates i.e one country may charge interest @ 10% the other @ 4%
> > > >
> > > > > > 2) Any deviation from the commonly practiced norms is disclosed in
> the
> > > > > > Notes of Accounts. Now even for a single moment I do not doubt the
> > > fact
> > > > > > that Pakistan would be doing that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dude, you don't even know what you are talking about. There are so
> many
> > > > > complicated issues, you simply can't learn about accounting by
> reading
> > > > > wikipedia.
> > > >
> > > > # ok. So throw light on these complicated issues .
> > >
> > > I am not about to write a book on financial accounting.
> > >
> > @@@ Who asked you to write a book? State a few issues- 1 or 2 will even
> > do..
>
> No, that can't be done. It is a vast subject and one or two sentences will
> not do justice to it. If you want to learn about accounting, learn it at a
> university. I am not qualified to teach it, but I am qualified to understand
> it. You are basing your knowledge on newspapers who never claim to be
> accounting experts.

$$$ Seeker: I am qualified to both teach & learn accounting policies.
>
> News papers only offer snippets of news.
>
> > > > >
> > > > > > 3) While preparing comparative data- data is reworked upon-
> brought on
> > > > > > the same platform. So if you say that GDP of India includes
> Interest
> > > > > > earned on money kept in bank accounts & Pakistan's doesn't then in
> > > > > > that case to prepare comparative data- either the interest figures
> > > will
> > > > > > be removed from India's GDP or they will be calculated for
> Pakistan &
> > > > > > added to its GDP.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is a known fact that India and China oversate their GDP. The
> actual
> > > > > numbers are much lower.
> > > >
> > > > # Yeah & also a know fact that in Pakistan more of undocumented
> > > > economic activity happens than documented ones . Right!!!!... Infact
> > >
> > > Probably.
> > >
> > > > Paki govt encourages people not to document their income. The govt
> > >
> > > No, GOP encourages and infact requires people to document their income,
> but
> > > compliance is shoddy.
> > >
> > > > does'nt need the taxes. They are getting enough of donations from the
> > > > Arab world & offcourse not to forget Uncle Bush... Hahahahaha
> > > > >
> > > > > > 4) All this information is easily available if you read one
> newspaper
> > > > > > everyday.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hahahahaha. You are funny, a stand up comedian. You can't learn
> > > financial
> > > > > accounting by reading newspapers.
> > > >
> > > > # It really does'nt matter Seeker from where I learn my financial
> > > > accounting . What matters is that I know it right :-)
> > >
> > > You don't
> >
> > @@@ well till now you have not been able prove anything, pull out any
>
> I am not trying to prove anything it is you who is trying to prove that
> India is a better country than Pakistan. So far you have not proven that at
> all.
>
> > logical statement that the data published is wrong except for be a cry
> > baby & say YOU ARE WRONG . Either discuss this in rational form or
> > accept defeat
>
> What defeat? You don't even know the basics about the subject and you want
> to carry on a debate. If you show me some semblance that you have a little
> knowledge of the subject, I will discuss it with you, but so far you have
> shown no understanding of the subject.
>
> It would be like me discussing Swahili with you. I know nothing about
> Swahili just like you know nothing about financial accounting.

$$$ Atleast try to teach me Swahili. And so far you have shown zero
knowledge on the subject..

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:27 pm
From: "baani"

gunjan.ghai@gmail.com wrote:

Can you for once show us some neutral opinion in the world that
> bolsters your claim ? Or do you want to keep the discussion purely
> poetic ? If Pakistan has so much wealth, there must be something online
> to prove it.....can you please show us something ?
>

Gunjan,

I think its a good idea.. Lets start discussing poems with Seeker. Here
goes my first one:

Star Light,Star Bright,O Moon Light
I wish I May,I wish I might
I wish Seeker
May see some sense tonight

gunjan.ghai@gmail.com wrote:

> Seeker
>
> Exactly my point....I am waiting for you to present data...you are only
> diagreeing with everything...If you are so confident you are right,
> then show us SOME information which can prove that Pakistanis are
> richer and better off than Indians. Think of it as an attempt to teach
> the truth to your kaffir neighbours ;-)
>
> Also - on your SSG - I found information online....you disputed the
> wikipedia post....then I presented you pakdef.com (which is managed by
> Pakistani army/navy/airforce personnel and is full of jingoistic
> diatribes against India)....where they have accepted the failure of
> SSG....you have NOT RESPONDED to that either.
>
> Can you for once show us some neutral opinion in the world that
> bolsters your claim ? Or do you want to keep the discussion purely
> poetic ? If Pakistan has so much wealth, there must be something online
> to prove it.....can you please show us something ?
>
> I can predict your response now - 'I dont need to present data because
> its you and baani who are trying to prove a point and the onus of proof
> is on you'.....Well....to me...thats like sucking your thumb and
> sulking in a corner.....very paki like ;-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Refuting "commonsense" on love and experience
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1fe0e4d99b5c5d2b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 1:28 am
From: bob

On 11 Apr 2006 11:20:28 -0700, ibshambat2004@hotmail.com wrote:

>Second is the idea that one has to have one's life in order before he
>can do anything good for anyone else. In fact, a person with the
>highest variety of emotional states is going to find it hardest to have
>a stable existence (if he were even to want such a thing as a stable
>existence) - but, because of the variety of emotional states that he
>experiences, he has the most wisdom to offer others.

buhahahahahaha

Ilya, if you weren't such a freak I'd ask my 12 year old to work with
you for a while. My 17 year old daughter is on to bigger and better
things (she thinks you are a wacko) but my son might consider it
worthwhile to spend some time helping you figure a few things out.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cuban-Americans and Cuban-American Supporters in the Bush
Administration
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2c737350e20cd17b
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 1:12 am
From: "PM"

Cuban-Americans and Cuban-American Supporters in the Bush Administration
From: "Felix Varela" abajoconcastro@hotmail.com

(25 Mar 06) This was sent to us by a reader/supporter:

Cuban-Americans and Cuban-American Supporters in the Bush Administration and Washington, DC that may be involved in U.S./Cuba policy issues (in alphabetical order but last name).

We ask, with all these powerful, mostly Republicans in Washington, how can the Cuba issue not be resolved five years into a Republican Administration?

View the list at: http://westernhemispherepolicywatch.blogspot.com/

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Distributed by
Chachi Novellas Bengochea
Delray Beach, Florida U.S.A.
Scanned by Norton Internet Security Professional.
Group: ForFreedom-Justice
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForFreedom-Justice
"Live-Free-or-Die"
"One nation UNDER G-D" "IN G-D WE TRUST"
CUBAN SUGAR MARKET & THE US GOV.- Learn the true reasons that keep Castro in power. The "hidden" power manipulating the US Government, and the resultant corruption of its institutions. Watch the documentary: COVERING CUBA 4: The Rats Below. Film exposes sugar price control by ADM, owners of Wash. DC. Order your DVD copy at: www.CubaCollectibles.com

--
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/
http://galeon.hispavista.com/cienfuegoscuba/Fotos_2005.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: World War III NEWS, Tuesday, April 11th, 2006 AD....Bush's "Nuclear
Option"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e7dc73ae8d2b8475
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 12:27 am
From: "\(Arcanus - UOSanctuary.com\)"

"K Miller" <miller#k@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:0MI%f.5241$L.182282@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Working towards the Final Act of the Play. (As has been written in
> the Stars many Years Ago).
>
> William Shakespeare would have 'Wished' that he could have written
> out a PLAY with such a Grand Finale !!!

So true. So very true. And yet people still believe that there is no GOD.

>
> I guess this might just 'secure' GWB's place in history (right up
> there with Hitler and Napoleon) !!!
> [But don't be hastily to Judge.]
>
> For the Demon of the Final Act is still "Yet Waiting In The Wings".
> [Waiting for Act Four to 'Unfold' before he makes his Grand
> Appearance.]
>
> All Great Venetian Plays always had an Act Four !!!
>
> There is still one more character to emerge before the Play is
> COMPLETE.
>
> This is not a speculation (but a PROMISE !!!)
>
> :-o
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Scholar Fearz Future of Young Black Men
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2e5f10360af7e066
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:41 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:36:35 -0700, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:41:40 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:57:41 -0700, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 23:05:52 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>gOn Sat, 08 Apr 2006 15:44:57 -0700, Von Bailey
>>>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 11:20:38 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/FEATURES/603260683
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Scholar fears future of young black men
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Every time I see these young black men walking up and down the
>>>>>>streets with these funny clothes on, I could just scream. I feel so
>>>>>>bad. So bad," said Franklin in a telephone interview from his office
>>>>>>in North Carolina.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Imagine his reaction if he saw the lyrcis to a typical cRap song.
>>>>>
>>>>>Typical of you to take the man's words out of context for your pitiful
>>>>>war on Rap. He says what he blames for the condition that he
>>>>>observes.
>>>>>
>>>>>"...he faults millionaire sports and entertainment figures for not
>>>>>giving a hand to those struggling to make it -- and the white majority
>>>>>as well. The economy plays a huge role -- a minimum wage that supports
>>>>>no one -- as does a political system that continues to ignore the
>>>>>realities of black social and economic status. And the United States
>>>>>has a long history of exploiting not only its natural resources but
>>>>>its human resources as well."
>>>>>_________________________________
>>>>
>>>>Actually, it is YOU who is quoting him out of context (your typical MO
>>>>here). He does NOT suggest anywhere that young black men are wearing
>>>>"funny clothes" due to economics or millionaires or white folks at
>>>>all. He knows, what everyone except you seems to know, is they dress
>>>>themselves in the morning, no one else is responsible. He makes it
>>>>quite clear that the mere sight of that sickens him.
>>>>
>>>Your pitiful diatribe assumes that his issue was that they were
>>>wearing funny clothes instead of having no viable prospects in this
>>>country.
>>
>>No, it doesn't "assume" anything at all, since we have a *direct
>>quote* from Mr Franklin. We KNOW how he feels about the "funny"
>>fashions in the hood -- well, most of us except you do know.
>>
>Really? What part of his statement referenced rap? That's where you
>brought it with your comment on what HE would think about rap music if
>he saw the "lyrcis".

A hypothetical scenario. Did you notice the word "imagine" prefixing
the rest of the sentence?

>My quote about his feelings about the condition
>come from the article YOU posted. Where are his feeling about rap in
>the article? Or are you so in touch with black men that you know what
>he would feel?

It seems clear enough that since he agrees with many, many people
today (including many thoughtful blacks) that young black men do
indeed dress "funny", he would certainly recoil when asked about cRap
music, especially its lyrics.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pimping Da Oscarz
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f989acbec3d530be
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:44 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:31:21 -0700, Von Bailey
<ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:56:56 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:35:38 -0700, Von Bailey
>><ovbailey@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:14:48 -0400, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:41:10 -0500, Voice Of Reason <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, looks like the Oscar producers are going down to the `hood in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>miguided effort to pump up its ratings. Has ABC forgotten the Janet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jackson debacle so soon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's where the white guy illegally tore off her clothes on national
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>televeision and got away with it. What about it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Geez, ya *really* are naive if ya don't think that stunt was scripted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in advance. Like pro wrestling. Nothing "illegal" about it (only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unethical and immoral), so there was nothing for the "white guy" to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"get away with".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You have some evidence besides your bigotted assumpitons that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'scripted'?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Because these enterntainers are too disciplined after years of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>training to do something spontaneous on national TV, especially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something risque. Does the term "rehersal" mean anything to ya?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>None of which is evidence, just more of your stupid assumptions being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>paraded as facts by you, the factually handicapped.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think yer talking to the mirror now, as I have already given you the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>most important *fact* you need to understand when dealing with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>entertainers who make those fabulous buck$ -- they don't jeopardize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>their acts by doing something that hadn't been planned and rehearsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That isn't a fact, that's your opinion that you have decided referrs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to an entire group of people. The usual habit of bigots, generalizing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to support their stupid assumptions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You deny that entertainers reherse ahead of time what they are going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to do when the cameras are rolling?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not relevant to whether something unrehersed could occur during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>act, which is what everyone involved said. So whatever point you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>attempting to make simply state it and back it up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Actually they claimed it was a "wardrobe malfunction", whatever THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is supposed to mean. Which is WHY entertainers always rehearse ahead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of time, in an attempt to minimize the unexpected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Which makes the stupid assumption that things cannot happen that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't rehearse for. That would be WRONG, but you have no problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>making such stupid assumptions when black people are involved all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time so why stop now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, of course the unexpected can happen. Which is precisely WHY good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>entertainers rehearse their acts frequently. Like hand movements,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for example, like reaching out and grabbing one's singing partner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So the person who's job it was to grab the singing partner screwed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>his part. She didn't have control over what his hands did HE did. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>if anyone did something purposely wrong in the live performance it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HIM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Except that at rehersal time, she could have said "no".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Which is only relevent if you have evidence that it was rehersed. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't. Just more stuff you 'believe' without a shred of evidence to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>back it up, as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You really persist in wallowing in ignorance. It's sad, but not
>>>>>>>>>>>>really surprising.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>So you don't have evidence to back up your claims. I didn't think so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, the evidence is all over this thread. Open your eyes, and your
>>>>>>>>>>mind, read carefully all that I have said, and start thinking this
>>>>>>>>>>through.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You lying about evidence doesn't make it so. You haven't presented
>>>>>>>>>any evidence at all, just a bunch of assumptions based on your
>>>>>>>>>bigotted notions about a black woman.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What "bigotted assumptions" did I make here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That she was responsible for the event and the white guy who actually
>>>>>>>tore off her clothing isn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In what way did I inject race into this? Specifics please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>I didn't say you did. Another one of your pitiful red herrings. But
>>>>>your inability to give the white guy responsibility for what his hands
>>>>>did (somehow Ms. Jackson controlled his hands in a way you can't
>>>>>explain) shows a bias.
>>>>
>>>>Because in the end Jackson had veto power and she evidently failed to
>>>>use it.
>>>>
>>>You still haven't explained how this 'veto power' was to control the
>>>white man's hands who actually tore off the clothing. Was she
>>>controling his mind? HE not she pulled the clothing off. HOW was she
>>>to stop him from doing it?
>>
>>Wrong, I have explained all this several times already. If you
>>haven't grasped this by now, I suggest you enroll in a reading
>>comprehension class at your local adult school. Pronto.
>>
>Saying that things are rehersed is not evidence that Janet Jackson had
>control over what Justin Timberlake did on that stage.

Did she ever claim that he did this without any warning?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not when on national TV, in this case, the Super Bowl half time show,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>watched by possibly hundreds of millions world-wide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And you have still not presented a shred of evidence that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scripted. None. You assume and rant as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now if I told ya there were 24 hours to a day, you would probably want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>proof, even though you know it to be true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your irrelevant comparison has not changed the fact that you have not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>presented a shred of evidence that it was scripted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can ya prove otherwise?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't have to. YOU are the one claiming specifics of which YOU have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no evidence to back up. You are simply providing one of your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pitifully sorry reflexive responses again when you have NOTHING to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>back up what you say, "CAN YOU PROVE OTHERWISE" as if not being able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to demonstrate that your assumptions are wrong prove them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong I've provided all the evidence you need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liar. And what's so amazing is that all anyone has to do is read the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thread and they will see that you haven't done anything except put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>forth that you BELIEVE she purposely had HIM pull off a part of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>garment. NO EVIDENCE just what you believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, I explained why all but the stupidest of performers would never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>do anything without working it out in advance during rehersals, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is what they are for. Well, OK, maybe these 2 clowns aren't the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sharpest knives in the drawer, so maybe there is a long shot you might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>be right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You *claiming* you've 'explained' something is not "evidence". So we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>are back to your baseless assumptions again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong, the evidence is in the explanation. Open your eyes, and your
>>>>>>>>>>>>mind too, and go back and read again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>An 'explanation' is not 'evidence'. Again you don't know the meaning
>>>>>>>>>>>of the words you use thus confusing conversation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>In this case it is, since no performer worth more than a dime would
>>>>>>>>>>ever go on national TV with rehearsing it beforehand. Ever.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Which doesn't in the least make Ms. Jackson culpable for the actions
>>>>>>>>>of another person tearing off her clothes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It does if she agreed to it ahead of time. And he *didn't* tear off
>>>>>>>>here clothes, only loosened one strap.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You have evidence that she agreed to it ahead of time? No, you don't,
>>>>>>>it's just another on of the many assumptions you base most of what you
>>>>>>>say on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I gave you plenty of evidence on this already.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's a lie. You have given your *opinion* about Ms. Jackson and the
>>>>>entertainment industry. You have given NO evidence related to the
>>>>>event at all.
>>>>
>>>>Wrong twice. There is plenty of well-documented evidence about the
>>>>kind of family that Ms Jackson comes from. And anyone who has even
>>>>done one show for TV will tell you about rehersals.
>>>>
>>>Neither of which is evidence towards the event in discussion, just
>>>stuff you wish to use to speculate. Speculation is not evidence.
>>
>>No, but facts *are*, and I just presented 2 of them.
>>
>That's a lie. Opinions are not facts and all you've offered are
>opinions based on your biased POV.

Wrong, I gave you 2 *facts*. What is an "opinion" about either?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UNA BIEN INTERESANTE DISCUSION DE OTRO FORO...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f23b2c8cf852fec6
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:31 pm
From: "PM"

El concepto de Izquierda surgió con los Jacobinos, porque se sentaban en el lado izquierdo del Parlamento Francés, y ellos fueron parte de lo que después se conoció como la burguesía, en ese tiempo era una clase revolucionaria y de cambios, pero hoy en día es una clase recalcitrante y atrasada. El termino volvió a ser usado por Lenin y los Bolcheviques en especial en su obra 'El infatilismo de izquierda........", pero Marx y Engels no pueden ser considerado como parte de la izquierda, porque el termino es sinónimo de reformismo, y ambos eran revolucionarios que abogaban por una nueva sociedad, que surgiría de las entrañas del capitalismo ( no del feudalismo ) sin estado, sin clases y sin sistema monetario, creada por la mayoría de la clase trabajadora, no por el líder, ni el partido, de por si los Bolcheviques y Sovieticos simplemente fueron reformadores del capitalismo, como hoy en dia los izquierdistas son reformadores, estatistas, seguidores de lideres, militares, y llaman socialismo al capitalismo de estado.La revolución Bolchevique fue una revolución anti-feudalista, no fue una revolución anti-capitalista, porque el capitalismo no prevalecia en Rusia, también no fue un movimiento total de los trabajadores, solo representaba un 5% de la clase trabajadora, y se impusieron por encima de la mayoría, aunque Lenin trato de demostrar en su obra el "Capitalismo en Rusia", que si existia, pero no era predominante, lo que predominaba en Rusia era la pequeña producción, y el campesinado, el proletariado industrial era una capa muy infima, aun mas, Rusia fue la ultima nacion Europa en tener una revolucion burguesa que tuvo lugar en el 1905, al igual que la revolucion Bolchevique fue una revolucion burguesa, pero sin la burguesia, la burguesia surgio despues, desde las esferas del estado.

On 4/15/06, Diego de Villaroel wrote:
Hola,

Qué fácil es hacer estudios y carnavales de opereta buscando antisemitismo entre los pensadores de la izquierda. Lo único cierto es que el antisemistsmo tiene raices cristianas y católicas muy profundas, y da la casualidad de que la izquierda no comulga con las ideas de la religión. La Iglesia Católica fue antisemita en el pasado. En la España de los Reyes Católicos se expulsó a los Judios, aunque no fue por antisemitismo sino porque los Reyes Católicos sabían que no conseguirían la Unidad de España con los judíos en connivencia con los árabes (cómo cambian los tiempos). Lutero, el gran reformador de la Iglesia protestante afirmaba que los Judios son la esencia del mal, y de este reformador religioso las ideas antisemitas se propagaraon por toda Europa. Para muestra una joya del pensamiento de Martin Lutero hablando de los judíos : "El sol nunca ha brillado en personas tan sanguinarias y vengativas que acarician la idea de asesinar y estrangular al pagano. Ningún otro hombre bajo el sol es más ávido de lo que ellos han sido, y siempre serán. Ahogan y destruyen al resto de la humanidad y se consideran, sobre esta base, ser el pueblo elegido de Dios"

Lutero no era de Izquierda, ni los Reyes Católicos. Más modernamente la principal función que los judios han tenido que asumir incrustados en las diferentes sociedades occidentales ha sido la de "Chivos Expiatorios". El caldo de cultivo antisemita de los años treinta fué el "crack" de la bolsa estadounidense de 1929 con la crisis que provocó a nivel económico y que como siempre los más habiles supieron canalizar todo ese malestar contra los judíos como últimos responsables, pero eso sucedía en sociedades capitalistas, no en sociedades donde gobernaba La Izquierda. La Derecha y su complicidad histórica con la Iglesia Católica deberían hacer un acto de contricción para ver hasta qué punto todo este antisemitismo del siglo pasado no fué debidamente propiciado por ellos mismos.

Saludos,

Diego

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

El antisemitismo y la izquierda
(Agencias).- Es tal el volumen de pruebas que acreditan la relación entre el antisemitismo y la estrategia general de las izquierdas, a través de prácticamente todas sus «generaciones», que resulta difícil ordenar el trabajo intelectual y no quedar desbordado.
Fue Barcepundit quien nos alertó en su blog de la existencia en la Red de Eduardo Robredo, en cuyo blog -Una máquina de Coca-Cola en el Reichstag- aparece este artículo:

Uno de los autores más interesantes para rastrear la genealogía judeófoba de la izquierda es Roger Garaudy (1913-). Este ex militante de Acción Católica engrosó las filas del Partido Comunista Francés y llegó a doctorarse en la Universidad de Moscú con una tesis sobre la teoría materialista de la conciencia.

Tras pasar por Mayo del 68, aquella fábrica de suicidas y de registradores de la propiedad, en 1982 se convierte finalmente al Islam, «la más ecuménica de las religiones ».

Las ideas de Garaudy han llegado lejos, y su «diálogo de civilizaciones» ha sido transformado en la «alianza de las civilizaciones» que abandera hoy nuestro presidente Rodríguez.

Garaudy es un evocador de las «ocasiones perdidas» de la Historia:

«el genocidio de los indios americanos, la trata de negros que aniquiló a 100 millones de africanos, el colonialismo y sus secuelas, la ignorancia de las riquísimas culturas y civilizaciones no occidentales».

Imposible no encontrar aquí los mismos aires de familia que atraviesan las críticas anti-imperialistas y anti-capitalistas del presente.

Un nuevo yihadismo político invade Europa o, como asegura Orianna Fallaci : Eurabia.

Pese al respeto hacia las «religiones del libro» que invocan los musulmanes más tolerantes, no hay duda de que el antisemitismo y el antisionismo configura una parte esencial en el quehacer del nuevo Imperio Islamista; un imperio que, en España, pasará ante todo por la recuperación del «legado andalusí» y aquel en buena medida mítico pasado de las «tres culturas».

Alan Finkielkraut analiza en En el nombre del otro (Seix Barral) la evolución del antisemitismo europeo, señalando el cambio del proletario por el musulmán, en cuanto sujetos renovados de la opresión capitalista-sionista y de la lucha de clases.

Este planteamiento no es incoherente con la tradición de la izquierda comunista. El judaísmo ya había sido considerado, en el análisis marxista clásico, como una especie de antecedente religioso del capitalismo.

Carlos Marx habría sido el pensador judío «anti-judío» por excelencia, como apunta el historiador Paul Johnson.

Es cierto que los marxistas científicos nunca apelarían a la «fe de los pueblos», o a la «crítica del logocentrismo» occidental, ni rechazarían en bloque las estrategias del colonialismo (sobre todo cuando son ellos los colonos), pero no cabe duda de que existe una relación genética y esencial entre el pensamiento anti-capitalista marxista, las izquierdas y el antisemitismo.

El presente apunta, en efecto, hacia una «nueva forma de rechazo» del judío, por mucho que este antisemitismo de supuesto nuevo cuño se guarde mucho del estigma racista (Chomsky , Saramago...) al pretender concentrarse en la crítica del sionismo y del Estado de Israel.

En una tradición, por cierto, que no dejaría de suscribir el propio Lenin:

«Quien quiera que directa o indirectamente proponga el lema de una cultura nacional judía es un enemigo del proletariado, un partidario de lo antiguo y de la posición de casta de los judíos, un cómplice de los rabinos y de los burgueses».

Entre el comunismo, el izquierdismo y el antisemitismo existe un lazo difícil de romper.

El Socialismo Revolucionario no da comienzo ex novo con Marx y Engels como a los marxistas les agrada pensar. Por el contrario, arraiga en una prolongada y secular tradición que incluye no sólo a los « socialistas utópicos» contra los que tanta ira malgastara el propio Marx (como si él mismo no fuera un utópico), sino a los socialistas ricardianos (con los cuales Marx contraerá una deuda jamás pagada) o a los intelectuales radicales judíos al estilo de Heine para el que la «libertad es la nueva religión», «los franceses son el pueblo elegido» y «París es la nueva Jerusalén».

Uno de los jóvenes «judíos» que desarrollarán este socialismo revolucionario es Carlos Marx, que llega a París en 1843.

Marx, es verdad, carece de educación judía, y no sólo es que jamás se molestara en adquirirla, sino que no mostró la menor sensibilidad por los problemas sufridos por los judíos europeos de su tiempo:

«Los judíos de Polonia son la más sucia de todas las razas».

¡Menudas perlas! Ahora bien, pese a que Marx recoge y amplía la metáfora de Heine, en el sentido de que la religión vendría a ser una especie de «opio espiritual», en realidad sólo forzando mucho la historia podría considerarse al poeta judeo-alemán una especie de « Juan Bautista» del marxismo.

Parece que Marx reprochaba a Heine, con su característica delicadeza:

«Renuncia a esos eternos lamentos acerca del amor y muestra a los poetas líricos como debe hacerse: con el látigo».

Pues bien, Marx no sólo habría asumido plenamente la teoría hegeliana sobre el progreso del espíritu (si bien «dándole la vuelta del revés») sino que, en opinión de Paul Johnson , la propia teoría marxista no sería mucho más que un «astuto fragmento de superstición judía».

Sin duda esta es una exageración retórica, pero no tan falta de verdad como quisieran los partidarios del «corte epistemológico» al estilo de Althusser y socios. Y ello porque el marxismo no es; digámoslo claramente- ninguna « ciencia rigurosa» libre de ideología. Si hablamos de ideologías, ¿acaso el «obrerismo» no es también una ideología, como bien señalaba Schumpeter?

Aunque el recuerdo de estas relaciones y geneaologías resulta molesto para los afines al socialismo, hay que decir que dentro del marxismo «científico» laten no pocos elementos originarios de la apocalíptica y el mesianismo judíos (y cristianos). La propia doctrina marxiana sobre el gobierno descansa en una noción inequívocamente catedocrática, en la cual el partido aparece, sobre todo a partir de Lenin, como «vanguardia» del proletariado.

Además, la metodología de investigación que sigue Marx durante toda su vida es de estirpe claramente rabínica. El de Tréveris nunca visitó una fábrica e incluso llegó a considerarse a sí mismo una especie de « máquina condenada a devorar libros».

La ascendencia anti-judía del pensamiento marxiano no es ninguna casualidad.

Tampoco es esto cosa de la «petit historie» o del anecdotario biográfico, sino, en el análisis de Johnson, una clave fundamental para comprender el cuerpo teórico del marxismo y su evolución posterior hacia un socialismo presuntamente « científico» del cual se quiere deducir nada menos que una teoría emancipatoria para toda la humanidad. Es normal que, ante una iniciativa semejante, nos tomemos la molestia de someter la propuesta a la confrontación racional.

Muchos hemos comprendido ya que el comunismo marxiano es, en realidad, un subproducto filosófico del antisemitismo. El mismo Bruno Bauer, líder anti-semita de la izquierda hegeliana, predicó la renuncia de los judíos al judaísmo en nombre de la «liberación humana» de la religión y de la « tiranía estatal» (Marx era sólo «estatista» en la medida en que deseaba cargarse finalmente al Estado).

La «cuestión judía» ocupa, según esto, un lugar central dentro del análisis socialista «científico»:

«el judío determina el destino de todo el imperio (austríaco) con su poder monetario y decide el destino de Europa».

El Mal es, para Marx, de carácter esencialmente social y económico; y los judíos habrían sido nada menos que los principales culpables de contagiar esta religión « práctica» del dinero a toda la sociedad:

«El dinero es la esencia alienada del trabajo y la existencia del hombre».

Hay, pues, que «imposibilitar la existencia del judío» (como tal judío). La emancipación de la humanidad empieza por la emancipación de los judíos, es decir, del dinero.

El judío arquetípico es paulatinamente sustituído por el capitalista arquetípico; figura de contornos sombríos, encarnación humana del mal que roba la verdadera esencia del trabajo y el alma del mundo.

Junto con el reconocimiento del papel revolucionario de la burguesía, Marx siempre consideró el comercio y las finanzas «burguesas» como actividades más bien «parasitarias». De la misma forma, el arquetipo del usurero casaba a la perfección con el judío avaro y errante.

¿Constituye el marxismo una novedad absoluta? No. Este pensamiento no es nada extraño a la tradición romántica y de la sozialpolitik que consolida Bismark, cuyos ideales de «organización» serán retomados por el socialismo de guerra ( Ludendorff) y más tarde por la «planificación» comunista.

Un fino hilo conduce del socialismo al comunismo, y de este, al fascismo.

Otra prueba favorable a la relación entre izquierdismo (comunismo, en este caso) y antisemitismo la encontramos en el origen de la teoría leninista del imperialismo.

J. A. Hobson era un periodista de Manchester Guardian que escribió Estudio del imperialismo, en el que revelaba el papel del «capital financiero internacional» como agente principal del colonialismo y la guerra:

«¿Acaso alguien supone seriamente que es posible que un estado europeo libre emprenda una grn guerra o que emita un gran empréstito estatal si la casa Rotschild y sus relaciones se oponen?».

Estas teorías conspirativas y anti-colonialistas, que ponían al judío en el centro de la diana, fueron bien digeridas por Lenin, autor en 1916 de El imperialismo, fase superior del capitalismo. Por supuesto, la realidad histórica se ajustaba muy poco a las versiones de Hobson o de Lenin. En realidad, como ha puesto de manifiesto Schumpeter, es en los tiempos de paz cuando mejor puede desarrollarse esa cosa llamada « capitalismo».

Pero ¿a quién le importa comprender la realidad cuando de lo que se trata es de revolucionarla?

--
CUBA HOY, LA REALIDAD SIN PALABRAS:
http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/CubainPictures.htm

HOSPITALES EN CUBA:
http://www.netforcubaenespanol.org/Enfoque/0035-SaludPublica-Cuba.htm

Try living in a country controlled by a mad old man that is stuck in the
cold war:
www.cubaverdad.net

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/
http://galeon.hispavista.com/cienfuegoscuba/Fotos_2005.htm

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