soc.culture.usa
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Today's topics:
* Hamas condemns US vetoing of UNSC resolution over IOF aggressions in Gaza -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/281cd61781b6c71
* DISGRACE OF IRAQ, AMERICAN SHAME! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9e3d4721b09e2b2
* Physicist says Thermite heat substance felled WTC - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/abf837d229b6d170
* "Countdown to Jesus" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d5564d3863138082
* Another cRapper Violently Sent To The Graveyard - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51ea0e555dcd7ef7
* U.S. MUST APOLOGIZE FOR DEPORTATIONS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d75315ccf56033fe
* Imagine the day taxpayers MUST pay a holohoax tax-YOU DO! More! - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b41cd2b508daebdc
* Colorado: Kids Stage Old Glory Walkout. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2f1882ac30dc275
* Government Goons Murder Puppies - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d5d011b0e073077d
* the Russians agree to help the Palestinans with money - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e4956100f61187d7
* Spoof on Indian Call Centres - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b86d19de8419ad6f
* Fulfilling the "American Dream." - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a48ac432669ca64
* Israeli settlers conspire to turn the Ibrahimi Mosque into a synagogue - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f5098ad51f6c338a
* The Videotape Recorder Turns 50 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66386290480d314c
* Felix Rodriguez, 64, was part of the infiltration team that sneaked... - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/20e6ebf27b50748c
* 1$$ THE ONLY WAY TO LEGALLY EARN MONEY WITH PAYPAL! - FAST,SAFE & SIMPLE $$1
- 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1762cc39d57200d1
* Generals Break With Tradition A Cry For Help - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c3da8a817ed7dd1a
* Australia - Now Taiwan is buying aussie uranium - criminal enterprise
continues as australia - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/716fbd525c17ccb6
* Secondary factors why Eyeran wants nukes - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a6b2f655b2a3f198
* : El misterio de La habana - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ea1ba0b115e9a864
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TOPIC: Hamas condemns US vetoing of UNSC resolution over IOF aggressions in
Gaza
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/281cd61781b6c71
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 8:26 pm
From: AnonMoos
It's called the Negroponte Doctrine, Umm Alfalfa:
On July 26th 2002, John Negroponte, the United States ambassador to
the United Nations, stated (during a closed meeting of the UN Security
Council) that the United States will oppose Security Council
resolutions which condemn Israel without also condemning terrorist
groups (and so are one-sided and biased from the US government point
of view). This has come to be known as the Negroponte doctrine, and
is viewed by the United States as a counterweight to the frequent
ritualistic resolutions denouncing Israel which are passed by the UN
General Assembly.
Here is a widely-reported summary of Negroponte's statement (an
official transcript of these closed-session remarks does not appear to
have been released):
For any resolution to go forward, the United States -- which has a
veto in the 15-nation council -- would want it to have the following
four elements:
- An explicit condemnation of terrorism;
- A condemnation by name of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, the Islamic
Jihad and Hamas groups, groups that have claimed responsibility for
suicide attacks on Israel;
- An appeal to all parties for a political settlement of the crisis;
- A demand for improvement of the security situation as a condition
for any call for a withdrawal of Israeli armed forces to positions
they held before the September 2000 start of a Palestinian uprising in
which 1,467 Palestinians and 564 Israelis have died.
U.S.: UN resolutions must condemn Palestinian terror Haaretz 27/07/2002
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=191341&contrassID=1&subcontrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
Summary at official UN website
http://www.un.int/usa/03jdn-me1006.htm
Ambassador Negroponte: Statement on the Middle East at the Emergency
Special Session of the General Assembly, August 5, 2002
http://www.usunnewyork.usmission.gov/02_112.htm
Christian Science Monitor on the Negroponte doctrine, December 08, 2003
http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/2003/1208/p06s02-wome.html
--
Hamas motto: لا إله لهم
إلا الموت،
«حماس» رسول
الموت (The death-worshipping cult)
Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DISGRACE OF IRAQ, AMERICAN SHAME!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/9e3d4721b09e2b2
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:19 pm
From: "serwad"
PRISONS AND TORTURE IN IRAQ
by Sarah Meyer
There is, at present, confusion about the closure date of Abu Ghraib. The
United States is uncomfortable under the global spotlight on its prisons and
torture policies in Iraq. Rather than moderate their policies to accommodate
democratic and legal guidelines, they are, instead, planning to move
'detainees'1 to newly built prisons which they hope will be less visible.
In February '04, The International Red Cross published its (January) "Report
on the Treatment by the Coalition Forces of Prisoners of War and other
protected persons in Iraq." The report drew the attention of the Coalition
Forces "to a number of serious violations of International Humanitarian
Law." These violations were "documented and sometimes observed while
visiting prisoners of war, civilian internees and other protected persons by
the Geneva Conventions (hereafter called persons deprived of their liberty
when their status is not specifically mentioned) in Iraq between March and
November 2003." The report said that mistreatment allegedly took place at
Abu Ghraib, Camp Cropper and 'battle group unit stations.' Other
'mistreatment' places of internment mentioned were: 'Al-Baghdadi, Heat Base
and Hubbania Camp in Ramadi governate; Tikrit holding area (former Saddam
Hussein Islamic School); a former train station Al-Khaim, near the Syrian
border, turned into a military base; the Ministry of Defense and
Presidential Palace in Baghdad, the former mukhabarat office in Basra, as
well as several Iraqi police stations in Baghdad. Many of these locations
are difficult to identify based on the reported place names, which in many
cases do not correspond to the place names used by the US military."
The International Red Cross also produced a later statement in May, which
was a summary of the ICRC's attempts in person and in writing from March to
November 2003 to get U.S. officials to stop abuses.
The first sexual humiliation, torture and homicide photographs from Abu
Ghraib, taken in 2003 were released in April 2004.2
In May '04, Seymour Hersh published The Grey Zone in the New Yorker. "The
roots of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal lie not in the criminal inclinations
of a few Army reservists but in a decision, approved last year by Secretary
of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ..."
On May 7th, Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
More.
On the 5th of October, The US Senate3 unanimously passed a resolution Senate
Resolution 356 "Condemning the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib
prison, urging a full and complete investigation to ensure justice is
served, and expressing support for all Americans serving nobly in Iraq." The
Senate condemned "in the strongest possible terms the despicable acts at the
Abu Ghraib prison" and urged "that all individuals responsible for such
despicable acts be held accountable."
In September '04, Lisa Croke reported that a US legal team from Michigan
found evidence of abuse in 24 prisons. In addition to Abu Ghraib and Camp
Cooper, they mentioned Baghdad's al-Salihiya; Al-Dhiloeia, north of Baghdad;
a US base outside Fallujah; and the US/Polish jointly run Hilla military
compound. "The majority of detention centers where former inmates allege
American soldiers and contractors committed acts of abuse were found in and
around Baghdad, most of them buildings that had been converted into prisons.
(Mustansiriya University Student Housing, on the grounds of Akai
Pharmaceutical Company Compound, the Palace of Conferences, the Scania
transportation depot and Baghdad's Al-Sijood Palace)... Detention centres in
Tikrit reportedly include one of Saddam Hussein's Presidential Palaces, Uday
Hussein's former horse stables, and the US-confiscated Tikrit Elementary
School."
'Detainee' population grew to over 11,000, more than twice the number in
October '04. Some were being held in 'field camps' before being moved to Abu
Ghraib.
In January '05, Tara McKelvey told the stories of women in Iraqi prisons.
Ghali Hassan has also written about Iraqi Women Under Occupation.
Baghdad Dweller wrote about a women's detention centre at Al Kazimiyah where
rape4 and abuse occurs. There are other women's stories: "google" 'torture
women Iraq.'
On 10 May '05, Bradley Graham reported in The Washington Post that the US
was to expand three existing detainee facilities "and open a fourth, at a
total cost of about $50m." Camp Bucca, near Umm Qasr, he wrote, would have
two extra compounds built, accommodating 7,700. Camp Bucca is known for
'bone-crushing' abuse. Cost: $12m.
Camp Cropper, near Baghdad airport, with 120 'high-value detainees', would
have extensions built to accommodate 2000 (also 'high value'?) by the end of
2005. Cost: $30m.
A Russian military barracks near al Sulaymaniyah, the capitol of Kurdistan,
has been transformed into a "Theatre Internment Facility' (aca prison),
called Fort Suse. Building started in August '05; work was subcontracted (by
Parsons 5?) The prison will accommodate 1,700+ prisoners. The first
'detainees' arrived on 24.10.05. It is alleged that the prison will be run
by Iraqis, after "extensive training." Cost: $8m.
And ...
Abu Ghraib was having an extension built for 800 'detainees.' Cost: less
than $1m.
These plans were approved by Donald Rumsfeld.
In August '05, Portal Iraq reported on Iraqi Infrastructure. They said that
"nationwide, there are 22 prison and court projects planned, with 13 ongoing
and nine complete." Where are these prisons, then?
There was an article, 'Sheik Beaten, Blinded, Tasered, Released Into The New
Iraq' by Aaron Glantz (09.05) in which Mr. Rolands of the Christian
Peacemaker Team mentioned a new prison being built by Parsons Inc. in the
north of Iraq. Mr. Rolands is quoted as saying, "In my opinion, you don't
build new prisons if you plan on just handing them all over to the Iraqis,"
Rolands says. "You build a new prison if you plan on staying a long time and
arresting many Iraqis in big house raids and big sweeps." Mr Fox of the
Christian Peacemaker team was recently found, tortured and murdered. The
fate of the three remaining CPT members remains precarious.
By November '05, Larisa Alexandrovna wrote, in Raw Story, that 'detainee'
numbers had grown to 13,514, which was confirmed by the United Nations. Only
1,300 have been tried, of which 636 have been convicted, she said.
Detainees, said Raw Story, were also kept at lesser known camps. These
include Camp Ashraf, where there have been reports of 'detainee escapes.'
Camps Al-Kazimiyah and Al-Nasiriyah are mentioned. Finally, an alleged
facility on Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, as well as "an installation on
the USS Baton" are cited.1
The 2nd release of Abu Ghraib photographs was published on 15 February 2006.
Salon published the Complete Abu Ghraib files, composed of 279 photographs
and 19 videos, on 15 March 2006.
At the end of February '06, the New York Times reported that the State
Department was requesting $100m for building prisons, though "no other big
building projects were in the pipeline for the department's 2006
supplemental and 2007 budget requests for Iraq, which total just over $4b.
Iraq Coordinator Jeffrey said that "money would also be set aside to
increase the number of prosecutors and corrections advisers (sic)."
Is this request in addition to the Pentagon $50m confirmed by Rumsfeld?
Since the Washington Post story in 05.05, the prison population has grown to
30,000. More than 15,400 were recommended for release in March '06.
On 9 March, the US DoD American Forces Information Service, said: "News
reports that the U.S. military intends to close Abu Ghraib within the next
few months and to transfer its prisoners to other jails are inaccurate."
On 13 March '06, Peter Pace, the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff,
said, "We do have plans to and are in the process of building other
facilities to move the detainees under US control out of Abu Ghraib. The
facility then will be owned and operated by the Iraqi government and that
government will decide when it closes - if it closes."
On the 19th of March '06, The New York Times published 'In Secret Unit's 'Black
Room,'A Grim Portrait of U.S. Abuse,' This Black Room is near Baghdad
Airport, where 'honoured' American visitors arrive, smile, and say that Iraq
will have 'democracy' and 'freedom'? Are there more grim stories like this
one waiting for exposure?
The American Civil Liberties Union Executive Director, Antony Romero, said,
"The policies are still in place, and we haven't held high-level officials
accountable for the abuse that happened on their watch. The ACLU will press
on with our lawsuit to hold Donald Rumsfeld accountable. If the American
government wants to restore faith in our commitment to human rights, we must
hold high-ranking officials accountable for their actions. Only then will
the horrors of Abu Ghraib truly come to an end."
REPORTS
08.02 Office of the Attorney General: Memorandum for Alberto Gonzales, Re:
Standards of Conduct for Interrogation (pdf)
"On 19 January 2004, Lieutenant General (LTG) Ricardo S. Sanchez, Commander,
Combined Joint Task Force Seven (CJTF-7) requested that the Commander, US
Central Command, appoint an Investigating Officer (IO) in the grade of Major
General (MG) or above to investigate the conduct of operations within the
800th Military Police (MP) Brigade." TAGUBA REPORT - HEARING ARTICLE 15-6
INVESTIGATION OF THE 800th MILITARY POLICE BRIGADE
01.04.04. "Request that the findings and recommendations of the subject
investigation relating to BG Janis L. Karpinski be set aside and no
additional adverse action taken. The 800th Military Police (MP) Brigade
(Bde) under the command of BG Karpinski successfully accomplished every
mission assigned despite being under-strength and under-resourced."BG
Karpinski Rebuttal to AR 15-6 Investigation of the 800s' Military Police
Brigade
21.07.04. Department of the Army: The Inspector General. "This inspection
report responds to the Acting Secretary of the Army's 10 February 2004
directive to conduct a functional analysis of the Army's conduct of detainee
and interrogation operations to identify any capability shortfalls with
respect to internment, enemy prisoner of war, detention operations, and
interrogation procedures and recommend appropriate resolutions or changes if
required." [PDF 2.287 Mb] Detainee Operations Inspection
23.08.04. AR 15-6 Investigation of the Abu Ghraib Prison and 205th Military
Intelligence Brigade by LTG Anthony R. Jones and MG George R. Fay US Army
[PDF 920 Kb]
Amnesty International
18.03.04. Iraq. One year on the human rights situation remains dire.
07.04.04. An open letter to President George W. Bush on the question of
torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment
27.10.04. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Human dignity denied. Torture and
accountability in the 'war on terror.
08.01.05. Cruel. Inhuman. Degrades us all. Stop torture and ill-treatment in
the 'War on terror'
06.03.06. Beyond Abu Ghraib: detention and torture in Iraq
Human Rights Watch
05.04. Letter to President Bush
05.04. Summary of International and U.S. Law Prohibiting Torture and Other
Ill-treatment of Persons in Custody
06.04. The Road to Abu Ghraib
06.04. Bush Policies Led to Abuse in Iraq
07.04. Military Investigations into Treatment of Detainees in U.S. Custody
01.05. The New Iraq
04.05. Getting Away with Torture?
09.05. Leadership Failure
24.05. New Accounts of Torture by U.S. Troops 2006 World Report
01 - 02.06. "According to the Ministry of Human Rights, as of 28 February
2006, there were total of 29,565 detainees -- 14,229 in the custody of the
MNF-I; 8,391 in the custody of the Ministry of Justice; 488 juveniles under
the custody of the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs; 5,997 held by the
Ministry of Interior and 460 by the Ministry of Defense ... The Human Rights
Office also continues to receive regular allegations and evidence of torture
in detention centres, particularly those not operated or controlled by the
Ministry of Justice. UN Assistance Mission for Iraq
Also see: Greenberg, Karen. The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib,
Cambridge University Press. McCoy, Alfred. A Question of Torture,
Metropolitan Books, New York, 2006.
"We don't do torture." CIA Director, Porter Goss, testifying before the
Senate Armed Services Committee, March '05.
How can the United States Senate and Congress sit there doing NOTHING to
prevent the disgrace of US prisons in Iraq and the subsequent torture of
incarcerated detainees?'
Footnotes
[1] A prisoner has legal rights. The OED definition of 'detainer' has
negative implications, implying unlawfulness. A 'detainee' has no rights,
and can be imprisoned, tortured, deported and/or suffer 'rendition' by the
US/UK.
[2] Abu Ghraib Scandal Time-Line
[3] See also Treatment of Prisoners Dossier
[4] Photographs 2004; women raped in Iraq.
[5] The press release, 'Parsons Will Design/Build Security and Justice
Facilities,' was on 29.03.04, i.e. one month before the Abu Ghraib '03
photographs became public. This 'awarded' contract was worth $900m.
[6] On 14 March '06, the Moscow Times revived an allegation that Ukraine
hosted a secret CIA prison for terrorist suspects.
http://indexresearch.blogspot.com/2...
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end
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TOPIC: Physicist says Thermite heat substance felled WTC
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/abf837d229b6d170
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 1:23 am
From: "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
> "David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
> > "Frank F. Matthews" <frankfmatthews@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > If it is new then you have not looked at his background.
> > I dunno, Frank... Some of these requests make sense to me,
> > so I support his efforts to awaken the public, whatever the result.
> >
> > ____________________________________
> >
> > Scholars Call for Release of 9/11 Information
> > http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
> Since you're so worked up about this,
Since when does "I dunno'" sound like "all worked up"?? I'd say that
it is you who is 'all worked up' over the fact that I have the right to an
opinion ...at least for a little while longer.
> here are some questions for you:
There's no doubt in my mind that I shouldn't waste my time on you. Not
only are the answers to these questions easy to find, but they are weak
questions and obviously posed by a subservient sheep. I won't do you
the honor again, after this pass.
> (1) If you think that the Bush administration is somhow complicit in this,
> what would have been their objective?
MONEY and POWER.
Money and power.... it doesn't get any more simple, or complicated, so
I probably shouldn't go on and arm you with cites you can pick on.
Both the military and the oil industries stood to profit from the resulting
war, and virtually the entire executive branch and it's appointees have
their fingers in the cookie jars of arms, oil, and energy... most especially
the Bush and Cheney familes.
Global domination of oil and mineral resources. See: PNAC
Establishing a Dictatorship in the United States.
BILLIONS upon billions of stolen dollars.
more:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4582.htm
Exxon Mobil Posts Largest Annual Profit for U.S. Company
January 30, 2006, New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/30/business/30cnd-exxon.html
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040606P.shtml
http://www.tyrannyalert.com/video.htm
Amy Goodman with David Goodman (2004 book exerpt)
Zurnach had obtained portions of Iraq's report to the
United Nations detailing its weapons programs. What
Zurnach had was a collector's item: He had the parts
of Iraq's 12,000-page report that the United States
had redacted.
You might think the United States deemed this material
dangerous because it could be misused by terrorists.
Try again: The material was dangerous because if it
got out, it would expose corporate and official complicity
in arming Iraq, which might dampen global enthusiasm
for war.
The portions of the UN report censored by the United
States identified at least twenty-four U.S. corporations
that helped Iraq build its pre-Gulf War weapons programs
and rockets. The list includes
Bechtel (conventional)
DuPont (nuclear)
Eastman Kodak (rocket)
Hewlett-Packard (nuclear, rocket, conventional)
Honeywell (rocket, conventional)
International Computer Systems (nuclear, rocket, conventional)
Rockwell (conventional)
Sperry Corp. (rocket, conventional)
Tektronix (rocket, nuclear)
Unisys (nuclear, conventional)
Die Tageszeitung also reported that the U.S. Department of
Energy delivered essential nonfissile parts for Baghdad's
nuclear weapons program in the 1980s. The Reagan and
Bush I administrations also authorized sales of deadly
chemical and biological agents to Iraq, including anthrax
and bubonic plague.
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/khashoggi-911.html
http://www.southcoastresponse.com/board/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=246854&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/2/62018.shtml
___________________________
"We're going out of town on Tuesday, Osama... The key is
under the doormat." - US Government, Sept 11, 2001
> (2) If you think this was an inside job, who did Osama and al-Qaeda claim
> responsibility for it?
Ahh... You mean, 'Osama Ben Forgotten' ??
The question should be, what makes you think he did ?
Osama bin Laden is not even Wanted on the FBI TOP TEN for 9/11.
Osama bin Laden made no such claim. The television (via the government
released news stories) told you it was Osama. They have proceeded to tell
the public repetitively for the past 4.5 years that it *was* Osama. Strangely
enough, we've long since stopped looking for the man that GWB swore that
bringing "to justice" was his _number one_ priority. If you obtained even a
small percentage of your world news from sources outside of the controlled
media of the US, you would have known this since the very beginning.
What proof, other than anything referencing the official government released
and reported story, can you provide to the contrary? Tough job, eh?
http://911review.org/Wiki/OsamaBinAsset.shtml
< Who is Osama? >
http://www.zmag.org/qacalam.htm
Osama bin Laden is an exiled Saudi, who inherited a fortune estimated
at $300 million, though it's not clear how much remains of it. Fanatically
devoted to his intolerant version of Islam -- a version rejected by the vast
majority of Muslims -- bin Laden volunteered his services to the Afghan
Mujahideen, the religious warriors battling the invading Soviet Union from
1979 to 1989. The Afghan rebels were bankrolled by Saudi Arabia and
the United States and trained by Pakistani intelligence, with help from the
CIA. The United States provided huge amounts of arms, including famed
'Stingers' -- one-person anti-aircraft missiles -- despite warnings that these
could end up in the hands of terrorists. Washington thus allied itself with
bin Laden and more than 25,000 other Islamic militants from around the
world who came to Afghanistan to join the holy war against the Russians.
As long as they were willing to fight the Soviet Union, the U.S. welcomed
them, even though many were virulently anti-American, some even
connected to the 1981 assassination of Anwar Sadat of Egypt. When
Moscow finally withdrew its troops from Afghanistan, some of these
Islamic militants turned their sights on their other enemies, including
Egypt (where they hoped to establish an Islamic state), Saudi Arabia,
and the United States. Bin Laden established an organization of these
holy war veterans -- al Qaida. In February 1998, bin Laden issued a
statement, endorsed by several extreme Islamic groups, declaring
it the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens -- civilian or military -- and
their allies everywhere.
The Boston Herald reports: Three banks allegedly used by Osama
bin Laden to distribute money to his global terrorism network have
well-established ties to a prince in Saudi Arabias royal family, several
billionaire Saudi bankers, and the governments of Kuwait and Dubai.
One of the banks, Al-Shamal Islamic Bank in the Sudan, was controlled
directly by bin Laden, according to a 1996 US State Department report.
A regional expert states, I think we underestimate bin Laden. He comes
from the highest levels of Saudi society and he has supporters at all
levels of Saudi Arabia. [Boston Herald, 11/14/2001]
You asked another poster for cites... like you're too damned lazy to look
for yourself; or to have kept up with ALL sides of the issue; or truthfully,
you do not *want* to know, as you feel better walking in ignorance with
the rest of the sheep.
A few Cites:
September 16, 2001:
Bin Laden Denies Involvement in 9/11 Attacks
Confirming earlier reports [Reuters, 10/13/2001] , bin Laden
denies any involvement in the 9/11 attacks. In a statement to
Al Jazeera, he states, I would like to assure the world that I
did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been
planned by people for personal reasons. [CNN, 10/17/2001]
September 28, 2001:
Bin Laden Again Denies Involvement in 9/11 Attacks
Bin Laden says in an interview, I have already said that I am
not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States.
As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no
knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of
innocent women, children and other human beings as an
appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent
women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden
even in the course of battle.
"The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these
attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the US system
but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some
other system; persons who want to make the present century
as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that
their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology can survive.
They may be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to
Serbia. In the US itself, there are dozens of well-organized
and well-equipped groups capable of causing large-scale
destruction. Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who
have been annoyed with President Bush ever since the Florida
elections and who want to avenge him. ... Then there are
intelligence agencies in the US, which require billions of
dollars worth of funds from Congress and the government
every year. ... They needed an enemy. ... Is it not that there
exists a government within the government in the United States?
That secret government must be asked who carried out the attacks."
[Daily Ummat (Karachi), 10/28/2001] [Carried by BBC]
Early October 2001:
Bin Laden Agrees to Face International Tribunal; US Not Interested?
Leaders of Pakistans two Islamic parties are negotiating bin
Ladens extradition to Pakistan to stand trial for the 9/11 attacks
during this period, according to a later Mirror article. Under the
plan, bin Laden will be held under house arrest in Peshawar
and will face an international tribunal, which will decide whether
to try him or hand him over to the US. According to reports in
Pakistan (and the Daily Telegraph), this plan has been approved
by both bin Laden and Taliban leader Mullah Omar. [Mirror, 8/8/2002]
Based on the first priority in the USs new war on terror proclaimed
by President Bush, the US presumably would welcome this plan.
For example, Bush had just announced, I want justice. And theres
an old poster out West, I recall, that says, Wanted: Dead or Alive.
[ABC News, 10/17/2001] Yet, Bushs ally in the war on terror,
Pakistani President Musharraf, rejects the plan (stating that his
reason for doing so was because he could not guarantee bin
Ladens safety). Based on a US officials later statements, it
appears that the US did not want the deal: Casting our objectives
too narrowly risked a premature collapse of the international
effort to overthrow the Taliban if by some lucky chance Mr. bin
Laden was captured. [Mirror, 8/8/2002]
"In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of
papereither here in the United States or in the treasure trove
of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere -
that mentioned _any_ aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."
---FBI Director Robert Mueller,
http://www.newsfrombabylon.com/index.php?q=node/2143/print&CSID=e2243fbbbe502a4ad39fde28c51c9bfc
______________________
> (3) If they were responsible for orchestrating airplanes into the
> WTC, why would they need to blow them up as well?
The "Shock and Awe" factor on the US public. Besides, Larry
Silverstein wouldn't have collected his $300,000,000 in profits
had they not fallen. The towers were due for renovations that
would have run in the several hundred million dollar range.
> (4) Conversely, if they planned on blowing them up anyway,
> why bother with the airplane?
This doesn't even deserve a stupid answer. If you can't see that
there was serious need for a believable alibi... sheesh, nevermind.
> Try to answer those before going off on long tangents about
> things that are nothing but wild speculation, OK?
Try to ask some questions that aren't geared for the infantile.
Better yet, go to the movies at home...
http://www.tyrannyalert.com/video.htm
So.... how's the weather out west, Stan?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Countdown to Jesus"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d5564d3863138082
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 8:34 pm
From: AnonMoos
"America Has Replaced Collapsed Ottoman Empire" <america_has_replaced_collapsed_ottoman_empire@yahoo.com> (Umm Alfalfa) wrote:
> The Crucifixion of Christ, American Style
Hey Abu Alfalfa, you don't believe that Christ was crucified at all in
the first place (since orthodox Islam demands that one must subscribe
to the tiresome old Gnostic-Docetic heresy which Muhammad for some
reason saw fit to revive in Qur'an verse 4:157), so that it's the
height of hypocrisy for you to post a message accusing Americans of
recrucifying Christ
Can you spell Munafiq? Mim-nun-alif-fa-qaf. I knew you could!
--
المتبرجة خير
من الإرهابي
المنتحر
Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another cRapper Violently Sent To The Graveyard
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/51ea0e555dcd7ef7
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:25 pm
From: Voice Of Reason <>
"D12 rapper and longtime friend of Eminem, Proof, was shot and killed
this morning at a Detroit club called 3C, located on the city's famed
Eight Mile. Proof, born Deshaun Holton, was announced dead on arrival
at Conner Creek Medical Center just after 5 a.m. He was thirty-two
years old. "
"Police were called to the scene in early this morning after reports
of gunfire and fighting at the venue, which was operating illegally
after-hours. Another unidentified, thirty-five-year-old man was also
shot, and is listed in critical condition. An investigation into the
incident is underway."
The list of cRappers who have been sent to meet their Maker by a
bullet or a knife is long, and never stops growing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9747473/d12_rapper_proof_fatally_shot?rnd=1145149443370&has-player=false
D12 Rapper Proof Fatally Shot
Eminem's right-hand man killed at Detroit club D12 rapper and longtime
friend of Eminem, Proof, was shot and killed this morning at a Detroit
club called 3C, located on the city's famed Eight Mile. Proof, born
Deshaun Holton, was announced dead on arrival at Conner Creek Medical
Center just after 5 a.m. He was thirty-two years old.
Police were called to the scene in early this morning after reports of
gunfire and fighting at the venue, which was operating illegally
after-hours. Another unidentified, thirty-five-year-old man was also
shot, and is listed in critical condition. An investigation into the
incident is underway.
Proof was among the most revered MCs in Detroit and befriended fellow
Motor City rapper Eminem before joining Em's rap troupe D12. Proof
went on to make a brief appearance in Em's hit biopic, 8 Mile, and was
ever-present in the courtroom in 2001, when Eminem was battling gun
charges. Proof also served as the best man at the superstar rapper's
wedding to his on-and-off love Kim Mathers last January.
"Me and Eminem have wonderful chemistry, and we have wonderful songs,"
the rapper told Rolling Stone last summer while on the all-star
hip-hop Anger Management 3 tour.
This is the second shooting involving a member of Eminem's entourage
in three months: Rapper Obie Trice was shot and injured on New Year's
Eve while driving on Detroit's Lodge Freeway.
Early last year, Eminem released a video for "Like Toy Soldiers," off
his last studio album, 2004's Encore, that slammed violence in the
hip-hop community. In the clip, Proof is shot, and Eminem sits in the
hospital waiting room as doctors try to revive his friend.
Proof released his solo debut, Searching for Jerry Garcia, last summer
on his independent label Iron Fist Records. "It's a long time coming,"
he said. "I'm very nervous because of the perception of the group we
run with -- there's a lot of pressure."
Memorial service arrangements for Proof are still being made.
JESSICA ROBERTSON
Posted Apr 11, 2006 10:48 AM
==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.S. MUST APOLOGIZE FOR DEPORTATIONS
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d75315ccf56033fe
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:27 pm
From: "serwad"
U.S. urged to apologize for 1930s deportations
By Wendy Koch, USA TODAY
His father and oldest sister were farming sugar beets in the fields of
Hamilton, Mont., and his mother was cooking tortillas when 6-year-old
Ignacio Piña saw plainclothes authorities burst into his home.
"They came in with guns and told us to get out," recalls Piña, 81, a retired
railroad worker in Bakersfield, Calif., of the 1931 raid. "They didn't let
us take anything," not even a trunk that held birth certificates proving
that he and his five siblings were U.S.-born citizens.
The family was thrown into a jail for 10 days before being sent by train to
Mexico. Piña says he spent 16 years of "pure hell" there before acquiring
papers of his Utah birth and returning to the USA.
The deportation of Piña's family tells an almost-forgotten story of a 1930s
anti-immigrant campaign. Tens of thousands, and possibly more than 400,000,
Mexicans and Mexican-Americans were pressured - through raids and job
denials - to leave the USA during the Depression, according to a USA TODAY
review of documents and interviews with historians and deportees. Many,
mostly children, were U.S. citizens.
Related story: Some stories hard to get in history books
If their tales seem incredible, a newspaper analysis of the history
textbooks used most in U.S. middle and high schools may explain why: Little
has been written about the exodus, often called "the repatriation."
That may soon change. As the U.S. Senate prepares to vote on bills that
would either help illegal workers become legal residents or boost
enforcement of U.S. immigration laws, an effort to address deportations that
happened 70 years ago has gained traction:
. On Thursday, Rep. Hilda Solis, D-Calif., plans to introduce a bill in the
U.S. House that calls for a commission to study the "deportation and coerced
emigration" of U.S. citizens and legal residents. The panel would also
recommend remedies that could include reparations. "An apology should be
made," she says.
Co-sponsor Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., says history may repeat itself. He
says a new House bill that makes being an illegal immigrant a felony could
prompt a "massive deportation of U.S. citizens," many of them U.S.-born
children leaving with their parents.
"We have safeguards to ensure people aren't deported who shouldn't be," says
Jeff Lungren, GOP spokesman for the House Judiciary Committee, adding the
new House bill retains those safeguards.
. In January, California became the first state to enact a bill that
apologizes to Latino families for the 1930s civil rights violations. It
declined to approve the sort of reparations the U.S. Congress provided in
1988 for Japanese-Americans interned during World War II.
Democratic state Sen. Joe Dunn, a self-described "Irish white guy from
Minnesota" who sponsored the state bill, is now pushing a measure to require
students be taught about the 1930s emigration. He says as many as 2 million
people of Mexican ancestry were coerced into leaving, 60% of them U.S.
citizens.
. In October, a group of deportees and their relatives, known as los
repatriados, will host a conference in Detroit on the topic. Organizer Helen
Herrada, whose father was deported, has conducted 100 oral histories and
produced a documentary. She says many sent to Mexico felt "humiliated" and
didn't want to talk about it. "They just don't want it to happen again."
No precise figures exist on how many of those deported in the 1930s were
illegal immigrants. Since many of those harassed left on their own, and
their journeys were not officially recorded, there are also no exact figures
on the total number who departed.
At least 345,839 people went to Mexico from 1930 to 1935, with 1931 as the
peak year, says a 1936 dispatch from the U.S. Consulate General in Mexico
City.
"It was a racial removal program," says Mae Ngai, an immigration history
expert at the University of Chicago, adding people of Mexican ancestry were
targeted.
However, Americans in the 1930s were "really hurting," says Otis Graham,
history professor emeritus at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
One in four workers were unemployed and many families hungry. Deporting
illegal residents was not an "outrageous idea," Graham says. "Don't lose the
context."
A pressure campaign
In the early 1900s, Mexicans poured into the USA, welcomed by U.S. factory
and farm owners who needed their labor. Until entry rules tightened in 1924,
they simply paid a nickel to cross the border and get visas for legal
residency.
"The vast majority were here legally, because it was so easy to enter
legally," says Kevin Johnson, a law professor at the University of
California, Davis.
They spread out across the nation. They sharecropped in California, Texas
and Louisiana, harvested sugar beets in Montana and Minnesota, laid railroad
tracks in Kansas, mined coal in Utah and Oklahoma, packed meat in Chicago
and assembled cars in Detroit.
By 1930, the U.S. Census counted 1.42 million people of Mexican ancestry,
and 805,535 of them were U.S. born, up from 700,541 in 1920.
Change came in 1929, as the stock market and U.S. economy crashed. That
year, U.S. officials tightened visa rules, reducing legal immigration from
Mexico to a trickle. They also discussed what to do with those already in
the USA.
"The government undertook a program that coerced people to leave," says
Layla Razavi, policy analyst for the Mexican American Legal Defense and
Education Fund (MALDEF). "It was really a hostile environment." She says
federal officials in the Hoover administration, like local-level officials,
made no distinction between people of Mexican ancestry who were in the USA
legally and those who weren't.
"The document trail is shocking," says Dunn, whose staff spent two years
researching the topic after he read the 1995 book Decade of Betrayal:
Mexican Repatriation in the 1930s, by Francisco Balderrama and Raymond
Rodriguez.
USA TODAY reviewed hundreds of pages of documents, some provided by Dunn and
MALDEF and others found at the National Archives. They cite officials saying
the deportations lawfully focused on illegal immigrants while the exodus of
legal residents was voluntary. Yet they suggest people of Mexican ancestry
faced varying forms of harassment and intimidation:
. Raids. Officials staged well-publicized raids in public places. On Feb.
26, 1931, immigration officials suddenly closed off La Placita, a square in
Los Angeles, and questioned the roughly 400 people there about their legal
status.
The raids "created a climate of fear and anxiety" and prompted many Mexicans
to leave voluntarily, says Balderrama, professor of Chicano studies and
history at California State University, Los Angeles.
In a June 1931 memo to superiors, Walter Carr, Los Angeles district director
of immigration, said "thousands upon thousands of Mexican aliens" have been
"literally scared out of Southern California."
Some of them came from hospitals and needed medical care en route to Mexico,
immigrant inspector Harry Yeager wrote in a November 1932 letter.
The Wickersham Commission, an 11-member panel created by President Hoover,
said in a May 1931 report that immigration inspectors made "checkups" of
boarding houses, restaurants and pool rooms without "warrants of any kind."
Labor Secretary William Doak responded that the "checkups" occurred very
rarely.
. Jobs withheld. Prodded by labor unions, states and private companies
barred non-citizens from some jobs, Balderrama says.
"We need their jobs for needy citizens," C.P. Visel of the Los Angeles
Citizens Committee for Coordination of Unemployment Relief wrote in a 1931
telegram. In a March 1931 letter to Doak, Visel applauded U.S. officials for
the "exodus of aliens deportable and otherwise who have been scared out of
the community."
Emilia Castenada, 79, recalls coming home from school in 1935 in Los Angeles
and hearing her father say he was being deported because "there was no work
for Mexicans." She says her father, a stonemason, was a legal resident who
owned property. A U.S. citizen who spoke little Spanish, she left the USA
with her brother and father, who was never allowed back.
"The jobs were given to the white Americans, not the Mexicans," says Carlos
DeAnda Guerra, 77, a retired furniture upholsterer in Carpinteria, Calif. He
says his parents entered the USA legally in 1917 but were denied jobs. He,
his mother and five U.S.-born siblings were deported in 1931, while his
father, who then went into hiding, stayed to pick oranges.
"The slogan has gone out over the city (Los Angeles) and is being adhered
to - 'Employ no Mexican while a white man is unemployed,' " wrote George
Clements, manager of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce's agriculture
department, in a memo to his boss Arthur Arnoll. He said the Mexicans' legal
status was not a factor: "It is a question of pigment, not a question of
citizenship or right."
. Public aid threatened. County welfare offices threatened to withhold the
public aid of many Mexican-Americans, Ngai says. Memos show they also
offered to pay for trips to Mexico but sometimes failed to provide adequate
food. An immigration inspector reported in a November 1932 memo that no
provisions were made for 78 children on a train. Their only sustenance: a
few ounces of milk daily.
Most of those leaving were told they could return to the USA whenever they
wanted, wrote Clements in an August 1931 letter. "This is a grave mistake,
because it is not the truth." He reported each was given a card that made
their return impossible, because it showed they were "county charities."
Even those born in the USA, he wrote, wouldn't be able to return unless they
had a birth certificate or similar proof.
. Forced departures. Some of the deportees who were moved by train or car
had guards to ensure they left the USA and others were sent south on a
"closed-body school bus" or "Mexican gun boat," memos show.
"Those who tried to say 'no' ended up in the physical deportation category,"
Dunn says, adding they were taken in squad cars to train stations.
Mexican-Americans recall other pressure tactics. Arthur Herrada, 81, a
retired Ford engineer in Huron, Ohio, says his father, who was a legal U.S.
resident, was threatened with deportation if he didn't join the U.S. Army.
His father enlisted.
'We weren't welcome'
"It was an injustice that shouldn't have happened," says Jose Lopez, 79, a
retired Ford worker in Detroit. He says his father came to the USA legally
but couldn't find his papers in 1931 and was deported. To keep the family
together, his mother took her six U.S.-born children to Mexico, where they
often survived on one meal a day. Lopez welcomes a U.S. apology.
So does Guerra, the retired upholsterer, whose voice still cracks with
emotion when he talks about how deportation tore his family apart. "I'm very
resentful. I don't trust the government at all," says Guerra, who later
served in the U.S. military.
Piña says his entire family got typhoid fever in Mexico and his father, who
had worked in Utah coal mines, died of black lung disease in 1935. "My
mother was left destitute, with six of us, in a country we knew nothing
about," he says. They lived in the slums of Mexico City, where his formal
education ended in sixth grade. "We were misfits there. We weren't welcome."
"The Depression was very bad here. You can imagine how hard it was in
Mexico," says Piña, who proudly notes the advanced college degrees of each
of his four U.S.-raised sons. "You can't put 16 years of pure hell out of
your mind."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...
begin 666 rien.gif
M1TE&.#EA" `(`( ``.3DY ```"'Y! $`````+ `````(``@```('A(^IR^U=
#```[
`
end
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Imagine the day taxpayers MUST pay a holohoax tax-YOU DO! More!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b41cd2b508daebdc
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 1:26 am
From: Harry Mazal
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:58:05 -0500, "127.0.0.1" <127.0.0.1@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>Imagine the day US taxpayers are required to pay a holocaust tax.
>Don't..................that day is here.
When even Heinz/Libby have to go public to explain why they refuse to continue
paying the KOSHER TAX, you can believe them.
Is this why the ZHIDS campaigned against Kerry and his wife, owner of Heinz?
On 14 Oct 2004 05:46:23 -0000,Pamyat18 wrote:
>Mamzer Kenneth McVay,SOBC, the well-known fag and mamser in Canada,
>Fag McVay of Vancouver, convicted of child molesting
>and car theft in California and Oregon, and still
>unemployed gas pump boy, mastermind of the
>Canadian branch of NAMBLA, now finally dying as a
>diseased AIDS-spreader, wants all to know
>about all his fellow ZHID criminals and perverts.
>Here is the latest.......
Notice that the foul pervert and molester McVay just can not deny the
FACTS of the article!
This was even confirmed in the jew newspaper tied in with McVay, where
they carried the article about HEINZ DUMPING THE KOSHER TAX in Canada,
because too damn expensive!!
Where possible support products that refuse to pay the kosher tax!
>GayMcVaySOBC@truthmail.com (GayMcVaySOBC) wrote in message
>news:<7ec78acb.0402121323.7bdc880c@posting.google.com>...
>> From: tyler <tylerdurdensidea@yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups:
>bc.general,calgary.general,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
>> Subject: McVay - his own worst enemy!
>> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:06:07 GMT
>> McVay - his own worst enemy!
>> I posted a series of simple comments and questions about the kosher or
>> rabbinical tax on food products and Mr. McVay immediately labeled me
>> as a racist and an anti-semite.
>> Then he claims that businesses that pay the tax are not coerced in any
>> way.
>> Let's examine this calmly and logically and look at his behaviour.
>> If McVay is the standard for the Jewish community then it is clear
>> from his postings on the internet/usenet that the standard response
>> is: if anyone questions the rabbinical or kosher tax they are to be
>> immediately attacked as being racist and anti-semitic.
>> Based on this standard response how can anyone with intellect imagine
>> anything different being said to businessmen when approached with
>> kosher certification? My posting is a minor incident yet it elicited
>> rage and endless accusation from McVay. Just look at his message
>> headers! And yet he expects that the same is not being done where real
>> money is involved?
>> Mr. McVay, if you want us to believe that businesses are not being
>> coerced then perhaps you should set an example first.
>> Oops, it's too late isn't it? I've proven that businesses are being
>> coerced.
>> It's never too late to change though. You can start by apologizing.
>> tyler
>> Subject: KOSHER TAX Ripoff-HEINZ/Libby Dumps,Too Expensive to
>> Consumers!!
>> NOTICE THAT NONE OF THE FILTHY ZHID APOLOGISTS FOR THIS EXTORTION WILL
>> SAY WHAT IS THE TOTAL IN HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PAID FOR THIS
>> EXTORTION!!
>> We do know that Philip Wolf a part-time kosher food inspector (sic) in
>> Calgary Canada testified in court that he gets $35,000 for his
>> part-time job!!
>> Heinz/Libby finally got fed up this year,and stopped paying the
>> extortion tax!!
>> Now, when you buy HEINZ and LIBBY goods, you are no
>> longer lining the pocketrs of the COR Jew parasites,
>> like the so-called kosher food inspector in Calgary,
>> Toronto and wherever they hide under the rocks....
>> Now, these leeches will have to try and find some work to do,
>> such as janitorial, road sweeping or whatever they may be
>> qualified to do...
>> Notice that parasite Ken McVay AGREES WITH THE TRUTH OF THE
>> ARTICLES. That is why his Jew masters have him do ad
>> hominem attacks instead, to try and divert attention!!
>> From: norma2339@charter.net
>> Newsgroups: wpg.general,calgary.general
>> Subject: Re: Heinz Dumps KOSHER TAX-Too Expensive to Consumers!!
>> Date: 2 Apr 2003 02:33:32 -0800
>> "veranda" <nobody@home.com> wrote in message
>news:<NQria.6802$vs.479414@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>...
>> > > > veranda : the origins of Kosher are of very good value since it
>> > > > teaches sanitary way of food storage , handling and preparation .
>> > > > Those were valuable practices hundreds of years ago .
>> > > > The whole point is that Today it only duplicates the work of
>> > > > Public Food Inspectors and therefore is an unjustified extra cost
>> > <norma2339@charter.net> wrote in message
>> > news:9abc4e06.0304010305.50dc870e@posting.google.com...
>> > > What duplication? It is a symbol on the container and the cost would
>> > > not change in any way. This "paranoia" is silly.
>> veranda : what 'paranoia' ?? we are talking about saving money .
>> In order to have the Kosher mark on a product the manufacturer
>> must subscribe to the Rabbi inspections ( just like Public
>> Inspectors ) and the Rabbi are charging money for their services ,
>> you knew that !
>> Kosher is Israel's food inspectors , dear , not in Canada though ,
>> we got our own ! :)
>> Well, to set the record straight. The Rabbinate council that approves
>> something Kosher according to milk and meat products probably got a
>> flat fee and if the company continued to raise the prices that counsel
>> doesn't really care. It is not an item by item thing. With the
>> Kosher diet it matters what foods are eate together (and never mil and
>> meat) and one eats mostly milk meals, because the time period between
>> those types of meals is longer after meat (a much heavier meal in the
>> day.)
>> What would it save you--less than $10 a year.
>> All countries have their own Rabbinate Cousels, so don't think that it
>> is just Canada with their own. Maybe it is the Canadian Rabbis who
>> have demanded more money?
>> Or, perhaps Philip Wolf, the KOSHER FOOD INSPECTOR in Calgary wanted
>> more than the $35,000 a year he got for duplicating the work of the
>> Canadian authorities?? Apparently, his part-time stamps business
>> couldn't make any money either.
>> On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:25:20 -0600, Boris Dynin <boris@movil.com>
>> wrote:
>> Further to the article below about Heinz/Libby, the smaller article
>> following sheds more light on the KOSHER NOSTRA EXTORTION TAX!!
>> The "Kosher Nostra Scam" on the American Consumer
>> by Ernesto Cienfuegos
>> La Voz de Aztlan
>> Los Angeles, Alta California - 4/27/2002 - (ACN) La Voz de Aztlan
>> receives quite a few "news tips" per week from our many subscribers
>> and readers. Some we dismiss immediately but a very few catch our
>> attention.
>> Last week we received an e-mail asking us if we knew the significance
>> of the small encircled letter "U" or letter "K" that can be found
>> printed on many food cans, food packages and on other kitchen
>> products. The message gave us some clues and suggested that we
>> do some research into the subject. What we found
>> certainly was "news" to us and it both shocked and angered us.
>> On arriving at my residence, I immediately went to the pantry to
>> verify that what I had just learned was actually true. Sure enough,
>> most of the packaged and canned foods from major companies, like
>> Proctor & Gamble and others, did have the (U), the (K) or other
>> similar markings. The Arrowhead water bottle, the instant Folgers
>> Coffee, the Kelloggs box, the Jiff Peanut Butter, the Pepper
>> container, the Trader Joe's tea box and even the Glads plastic
>> sandwich bags carton had the (U) or (K) mark on them.
>> We needed a little more verification so we called two major companies
>> to ask some questions. We chose Proctor & Gamble that markets the
>> Folgers Coffee and the Clorox Company that manufactures the Glads
>> plastic zip lock sandwich bags. Each of the two companies, as well as
>> most others, have 1-800 telephone numbers printed on their packages
>> for consumers to call in case they have any questions about their
>> products. When we asked the Proctor & Gamble representative what the
>> (U) meant on their Folgers Coffee container, she asked us to wait
>> until she consulted with her supervisor. She came back and informed us
>> that the mark meant that the coffee was " certified kosher".
>> We than asked her how and who certified the coffee to be "kosher" and
>> whether it cost any money to do so. She refused to answer these and
>> other questions. She suggested that we write to their Corporate Public
>> Affairs Department. We than called the Clorox Corporation to ask what
>> the (U) meant on the package of their Glads plastic sandwich bags and
>> she also said that the (U) meant that the plastic bags were "kosher"
>> but refused to answer questions concerning payments the Clorox
>> Corporation has to make in order to be able to print the (U) on their
>> products.
>> What we learned next, pretty much floored me personally. I learned
>> that major food companies throughout America actually pay a Jewish Tax
>> amounting to HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR per year in order to
>> receive protection.
>> This hidden tax gets passed, of course, to all non-Jewish consumers of
>> the products. The scam is to coerce the companies to pay up or suffer
>> the consequences of a Jewish boycott. Jewish consumers have learned
>> not to buy any kitchen product that does not have the (U) the (K) and
>> other similar markings.
>> Another shocker was learning who is actually behind these
>> sophisticated "Kosher Nostra Scams." It turns out that the
>> perpetrators of these elaborate extortion schemes are actually
>> Rabbinical Councils that are set up, not just in the U.S. but in other
>> western countries as well. For example, the largest payola operation
>> in the U.S. is run by those who license the (U) symbol. The
>> (U) symbol provides protection for many products sold here in Aztlan
>> and in the United States. This symbol is managed by the The Union of
>> Orthodox Jewish Congregations with headquarters at 333 Seventh Avenue
>> in New York City.
>> The scam works like a well oiled machine and is now generating vast
>> amounts of funds, some of which are being utilized by the Union of
>> Orthodox Rabbis to support the Ariel Sharon Zionist government in
>> Israel. The website of the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations is
>> full of pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian propaganda.
>> The "Kosher Nostra" protection racket starts when an Orthodox Rabbi
>> approaches a company to warn the owners that unless their product is
>> certified as kosher, or "fit for a Jew to eat", they will face a
>> boycott by every Jew in America. Most, if not all of the food
>> companies, succumb to the blackmail because of fear of the Jewish
>> dominated media and a boycott that may eventually culminate in
>> bankruptcy. Also, the food companies know that the cost can be passed
>> on to the consumer anyway. The food companies have kept secret from
>> the general consumer the meaning of the (U) and the amount
>> of money they have to pay the Jewish Rabbis.
>> It is estimated that the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations, which
>> manages the (U) symbol protection racket, controls about 85% of the
>> "Kosher Nostra " certification business. They now employ about 1200
>> Rabbi agents that are spread through out the U.S.
>> Food companies must first pay an exorbitant application fee and then a
>> large annual fee for the use of the (U) copyright symbol. Secondly,
>> the companies must pay separate fees each time a team of Rabbis shows
>> up to "inspect" the company's operations.
>> Certain food companies are required to hire Rabbis full time at very
>> lucrative salaries.
>> The amount of money that the non-Jewish consumer has paid the food
>> companies to make up for the hidden Jewish Tax is unknown, but it is
>> estimated to be in the BILLIONS since the scam first started. The
>> Orthodox Jewish Councils as well as the food companies keep the amount
>> of the fees very secret. The Jewish owned Wall Street Journal wrote
>> about the problem many years ago, but they have stopped writing about
>> it now.
>> Only public awareness concerning the "Kosher Nostra Scam" will
>> eventually help stop this swindle of the American consumer. Public
>> education of the scam may lead to an eventual non-Jewish boycott of
>> all products with the (U), (K) or other Jewish protection symbols. I
>> certainly do not need to pay extra for "kosher water", "kosher coffee"
>> or "kosher plastic sandwich bags".
>> In fact, I demand my money back for all I had to pay over the years
>> for the hidden and illegal Jewish Tax. Are there any bright attorneys
>> out there that could bring a class action suit against the Union of
>> Orthodox Jewish Congregations on behalf of the citizens of Aztlan and
>> other non-Jewish people?
>> * * * * * * * * * * * *
>> CONGRATULATIONS TO HEINZ/LIBBY FOR STARTING THE
>> ANTI-KOSHER NOSTRA REVOLT!!
>> >>Further to the article below, today's Southam newspapers
>> >>report that Canadian Jew News stated that Heinz Canada
>> >>have removed the Koosher Tax Certification from almost
>> >>all Heinz products.
>> >>Heinz declared this was done " to keep costs down" according
>> >>to Heinz spokeman Anna Relyea.
>> >>To save money Heinz stopped the KOSHER TAX on tomato sauces
>> >>and pastes, vinegar and mustard, and also jars of baby foods.
>> >>Also, the KOSHER TAX was dropped on all domestic beans,
>> >>including those sold under the Libby's label.
>> >>Naturally, the ZHID rabbis who made a killing in fees from
>> >>the KOSHER TAX are now complaining, according to Rabbi
>> >>Mordechai Levin, executive director of COR(Council of
>> >>Orthodox Rabbis).
>> >>Good for Heinz!! Perhaps now more firms will join the
>> >>refusal to pay the KOSHER TAX!!!
>> >>From: tyler <tylerdurdensidea@yahoo.com>
>> >>Newsgroups: calgary.general,soc.culture.jewish,edm.general
>> >>Subject: You asked for it! Proof that COR religous tax on food costs
>> >>consumers
>> >>Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 00:55:49 GMT
>> >>You asked for it! Proof that COR religous tax on food costs consumers
>> >>It has been said by zionists and orthodox that the COR tax on Canadian
>> >>food does not cost the consumer. Of course this is ridiculous and the
>> >>proof is easily found.
>> >>COR stands for Council of Orthodox Jews. They certify foods as kosher.
>> >>Foods such as Heinz Ketchup and Windsor Salt, and non foods such as
>> >>aluminum foil and bleach, have COR certification. Look at the label,
>> >>if you see COR followed by a number then the manufacturer pays rabbis
>> >>to inspect food, facilities and preparation methods. If they conform
>> >>to religious law then the product is certified as kosher.
>> >>The following has been snipped from:
>> >>http://www.kosherquest.org/html/Reliable_Kosher_Symbols.htm
>> >>Pay attention to the fact that kosher certification, in other words
>> >>rabbinical organizations, can derive profit. COR certification costs
>> >>are passed along to the consumer by the manufacturer and a religious
>> >>organization is profitting. Canadian consumers must boyocott any COR
>> >>certified food product to stop a religion from hijiacking Canadian
>> >>food production and unfairly profiting from the sale of food items.
>> >>The website explains:
>> >>Once contact with a certifying agency is made, the detective work
>> >>begins. The manufacturer must supply a complete, detailed list of
>> >>every ingredient in the product, including preservatives, release
>> >>agents, stabilizers or other inert ingredients. In addition, every
>> >>step in the manufacturing process, every cleansing agent used on the
>> >>equipment and all other products produced on the same premises require
>> >>close investigation and supervision.
>> >>The certifying agency must track down each ingredient to its ultimate
>> >>source. If, for instance, the ingredient is meat or a meat by-product,
>> >>the item cannot be kosher unless the meat source itself is strictly
>> >>kosher. Wine and wine by-products, cheese, and some dairy by-products
>> >>(such as whey) present the same problem. Any oil used in the
>> >>manufacture of foodstuffs has to be traced back to the oil processor.
>> >>The supervising agency must conduct a complete and intense
>> >>investigation into the origin of all the ingredients.
>> >>The results of all these investigations are forwarded to the rabbinic
>> >>authority (or board) of the supervising agency. If changes in
>> >>ingredients or processes are required, the manufacturer must make the
>> >>changes before the agency will do further work. Once all is
>> >>acceptable, the rabbinic authority will determine the amount of
>> >>on-plant supervision necessary. This information is written into a
>> >>contract and then sent to the manufacturer.
>> >>The cost of certification to the manufacturer is minimal. For
>> >>non-profit agencies, cost depends on the amount of on-site work.
>> >>Agencies making a profit might have a minimum annual charge and fees
>> >>depending on the gross annual sales of the product.
>> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>The cost is minimial to the manufacturer because they are passed on to
>> >>the consumer. The consumer pays 100% of the costs, no wonder they say
>> >>that!
>> >>...and whoever heard of a rabbinical agency not making money. They
>> >>likely all have a minimum annual charge and fees based on the gross
>> >>annual sales of the product.
>> >>The website claims that certification increases sales. Ask your
>> >>friends and neighbours if they know what COR means. Unless they are
>> >>Jewish, they won't have any idea. So much for sales being increased
>> >>because something is certified.
>> >>tyler
>> >>the consumer watchdog!!!
If you believe in the TRUTH and the RIGHT,
then visit www.freedomsite.org
Lawyers, politicians, and judges need to be recycled - as fertiliser!!
"At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
is a revolutionary act."
(George Orwell)
David Icke - '...and the truth shall set you free'
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
(Arthur Schopenhauer)
"The reason men are silenced is not because they speak falsely,
but because they speak the truth. This is because if men speak
falsehoods, their own words can be used against them; while if
they speak truly, there is nothing which can be used
against them -- except force." -- John Bryant
"To attempt to silence a man is to pay him homage, for it is an
acknowledgement that his arguments are both impossible to answer
and impossible to ignore."
--John Bryant
Posted by:
Patrick Lee Humphrey
7500 Bellerive #1807
Houston, Texas 77036-3040
1-713-266-7764
Steven Horn (KCOM)
1836 NW 11th St
Oklahoma City, OK 73106
(405) 524-0576
together with
Boris Dynin <boris@sonic.net> = NAMBLA executive &
Henry<hermcam@mindspring.com>
CALL late nights to discuss: (408) 773-0984
Email me: boris@movil.com , boris@sonic.net or even
VISIT me at:
55 Chumasero Drive, Daly City, San Francisco 94132
We all like late night discussions, even from Stormfront,
Christian Identity, Pamyat, Aryan Nations, etc.
We are together with McVay, regional managers for NAMBLA.
We like young children, so that we can train them our way.
Ken McVay invites callers,and visitors,to his homosexuals escorts
office: VISIT at:
#5 - 1601 - Bowen Road, Nanaimo, B.C., Canada, or my home at:
Apt. 3108 - 995 Bowen Road, Nanaimo, B.C., Canada
or call: 1-250-616-9431
As everyone can see McVay takes it as a compliment when he is
called a "confessed child-molester" and the additional material
should give an indication as to the why.
"I am weary of seeing the issue of "child porn" blown out of
proportion (I've been on and around the Net since 1988, and have
yet to come across anything I'd consider "child porn." I've
seen photos of naked children, but then I've got some of those in
my family photo album, and fail to see the harm, or any great
moral danger to our society)." - Nizkor Director Ken McVay
http://www.spectacle.org/695/mcvay.html [Many paedophiles
also have family albums with naked children photos in them.]
Look at Ken McVay's photo and ask yourselves; "Does he not look like
a disheveled unkempt pervert or someone who would molest your child
even if he or she were not naked"?
http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.jpg
For detailed and documented evidence of McVay's questionable
background and details of convictions, please refer to Dr.David Michael's
detailed expose on McVay. McVay is a distraught paranoid molseter, and is
known for claiming that anyone who refutes his lies must be a grosvenor!!
It is also suspected that McVay fabricates responses using aliases, just
to justify his existence to his ZHID masters.
Since I am a female, I also like to receive many calls, to discuss
NAMBLA,lesbianism, JEW atrocities and similar.
Email me, Shiksa Susan Cohen at: Flavia18@verizon.net, especially late nights.
Also,be sure to include me on maillists:
Keith Spencer,5005 Whitemud Road,Edmonton,AB,Canada T6H5L2
I welcome phone calls, late nights:(780)437-1787 or
send lots of emails to: krs2@ualberta.ca, or phone to
work:(780)492-0473
And also: George Firestone: "George" <firestone@hemisphere.com>,
and davejoll@ihug.co.nz.
Here is Fag Rianin's own web page: http://gaydar.co.uk/riain_il
Notice he is a self confessed ZionistFagJew!
For the real TRUTH about ZHIDS, visit the world top-rated website for
JEW-WATCH:
http://www.jewwatch.com
Now with more evidence coming out proving ZHID COLLABORATION WITH
NAZIS - another 51 cases besides the renowned Kastner case - no wonder
people around the world are really disliking the Christkiller ZHIDS!!
Or, other useful websites include:
ZUNDELSITE - www.zundelsite.org
IHR - www.ihr.org
OSTARA - www.ostara.org
PAMYAT - http://abbc.com/pamyat/index.html
Edgar J.Steele - www.ConspiracyPenPal.com
AL JAZEERA - http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
THE HOFFMAN WIRE - Dedicated to Freedom of the Press,
Investigative Reporting and Revisionist History
Subscribe: HoffmanWire-subscribe@topica.com
Or, visit the website for NATIONAL ALLIANCE : http://www.natall.com
They have lots of information, as well as books and records.
They also are involved in exposing Ken McVay for the crook he is,
and passing on information to the appropriate criminal prosecutors.
As a service to the public, this article is posted worldwide by a
victim of the molester pervert Ken McVay, with the assistance
of a group interested in detailing the depredations of the ZHIDS.
May Ken McVay and his like,rot in gehenna.
In memory of William Grosvenor who courageously posted the TRUTH
for many years around the world.
Reply-To: "George" <firestone@hemisphere.com>,<firestone@bellsouth.net>
or to Ariadne@mac.hush.com, or Ariadne.mac@gmail.com
Feel free to subscribe us to maillists for sex, homosexuals and the like.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Colorado: Kids Stage Old Glory Walkout.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/2f1882ac30dc275
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:33 pm
From: Bob LeChevalier
YoMammmy@work.org (Way Back Jack) wrote:
>>No. "racism" is a belief that a nonexistent difference is important.
>>Beliefs don't have to reflect reality, and yours is so out of step
>>with reality as to be a very bad joke.
>
>Actually, you say it to curry favor with the "perceived" negroes.
Patent nonsense, since I don't know any that would be reading the
newsgroup. Nor do I "perceive" any skin color of those reading the
newsgroup that I do not know. So who exactly would I be currying
favor with, and to what end?
lojbab
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 1:37 am
From: I'm@nospam.net (Way Back Jack)
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:33:08 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
<lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
>YoMammmy@work.org (Way Back Jack) wrote:
>>>No. "racism" is a belief that a nonexistent difference is important.
>>>Beliefs don't have to reflect reality, and yours is so out of step
>>>with reality as to be a very bad joke.
>>
>>Actually, you say it to curry favor with the "perceived" negroes.
>
>Patent nonsense, since I don't know any that would be reading the
>newsgroup. Nor do I "perceive" any skin color of those reading the
>newsgroup that I do not know. So who exactly would I be currying
>favor with, and to what end?
You've been saying it most of your fucking life, whigs.
Why would you change in the Usenet era?
________
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Government Goons Murder Puppies
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/d5d011b0e073077d
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:33 pm
From: SgtMinor
Bo Raxo wrote:
> "SgtMinor" <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote in message
> news:QrqdnYVl_-lHBdzZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>Bo Raxo wrote:
>>
>>>"SgtMinor" <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bo Raxo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Topquark" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:z8WdndWcouH25tzZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@rcn.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In a massive 1998 raid at a San Francisco housing co-op, cops shot a
>>>>>>family dog in front of its family, then dragged it outside and shot it
>>>>>>again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I remember this incident, and the above depiction is ludicrous. A
>
> little
>
>>>>>googling for the details...
>>>>>
>>>>>This was at a federal housing project, not a co-op,in the Western
>>>
>>>Addition;
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the writer's confusion comes from the Martin Luther King Jr./Marcus
>>>
>>>Garvey
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Cooperative. That dog wasn't a family pet, any more than the apartment
>>>
>>>was a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>family's home, it was used by a gang known as the Knock Out Posse as a
>>>>>storefront. The dog was a pit bull, and the raid was on an apartment
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>>>was being used to sell large quantities of illegal drugs. The police
>>>
>>>had
>>>
>>>
>>>>>been running surveillance on the place, and already were wary of that
>>>
>>>dog.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why don't you quote the article you cite, fuckwit?
>>>
>>>
>>>Why do I have to, if what I write is an accurate summary from the cite?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Here's what it
>>>>says:
>>>
>>>
>>>Which is the same thing that I said, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"War on crime
>>>>
>>>>The SFPD used SWAT-style equipment to raid a Western Addition
>>>>housing project. Does military gear encourage military policing?
>>>>
>>>>By Christian Parenti
>>>>
>>>>JUST BEFORE DAWN on Oct. 30, 90 law-enforcement officers wearing
>>>>black masks and fatigues and armed with assault rifles stormed the
>>>>Martin Luther King Jr./Marcus Garvey Cooperative in the Western
>>>>Addition. They used special "shock-lock" shotgun rounds to blow
>>>>apartment doors off their hinges and cleared people out of rooms
>>>>by throwing "flash-bang grenades," which produce nonlethal
>>>>explosions that terrify and disorient people."
>>>>
>>>>And this about the dog: "And a pit bull named Bosco -- which many
>>>>residents described as well liked and friendly -- was shot inside
>>>>an apartment, dragged bleeding outside, and shot again. Deputy
>>>>chief Richard Holder told police commissioners that, according to
>>>>police intelligence gathered during "covert operations," the dog
>>>>was "known for its jumping ability and was shot in mid-air.""
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a
>>>
>>>pound
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>>>apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven
>>>
>>>pistols.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir,
>>>>that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors of
>>>>mostly innocent people asleep in their beds.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd bet the neighbors were glad to lose a little sleep to see the drug
>>>dealers operating next door get taken away. If yoru neighbors were
>>>criminals, sitting there with seven guns between them and a large drug
>
> stash
>
>>>some rivals might want to rob, wouldn't that make you just a *little*
>>>nervous? Wouldn't you be rather *glad* when the police came and hauled
>
> off
>
>>>the thugs you had living next door to you? And you no longer have a
>
> string
>
>>>of criminals and drug addicts walking by your home every day on their
>
> way to
>
>>>do business?
>>
>>They were ecstatic: "At a Nov. 4 police commission meeting, a
>>train of furious and sobbing residents from the raided housing
>>complex -- all of them African American -- described how officers
>>slapped them, stepped on their necks, and put guns to their heads
>>while other officers ransacked their homes. Weeping and terrified
>>children, some as young as six, were handcuffed and separated from
>>their parents. Some urinated in their pajamas. (Police chief Fred
>>Lau told the San Francisco Chronicle that officers wanted to keep
>>the kids from "running around.")
>>
>>Residents of the complex say the raid was a violation of their
>>civil rights. Scores of people with no charges against them and no
>>criminal records were put in disposable plastic "flex-cuffs."
>>Civil servants and grandmothers were held at gunpoint. One woman
>>was hospitalized after a fit of seizures; other people were so
>>distraught they couldn't return to work for days."
>>
>>Do you even bother to read the stuff you cite?
>
>
>
> Sure. I wasn't originally making the point that this was the most well run
> raid in the world, my point was that it wasn't a simple "some cop shot the
> family dog for no reason" kind of situation. The OP's article didn't
> accurately portray the incident, compared to the article I cited (and
> summaraized).
>
> Just because the neighbors didn't like the way the cops ran the raid (and
> there were some questions at the time as to how many people *actually* were
> detained by police at the time versus how many were *claiming* so a week
> later, much like a bus crash), doesn't mean they weren't glad to see drug
> dealing gang members gone from their midst.
>
>
>>All of this is a result of the fascistic "war on drugs." This
>>"war" is nothing but an attempt to violate people's rights, enrich
>>the criminal community, expand government police powers and
>>corrupt law enforcement. The criminals I fear are the ones on the
>>government payroll.
>>
>
>
> The war on drugs is largely a waste and in broad terms a failure. Causes a
> lot of unneccesary deaths, sure.
>
> My point, nimrod, was that the incident was NOT what the article he'd quoted
> protrayed: that simply a family dog was dragged out and shot in front of
> the neighbords.
How can a person, on the same hand, consider the war on drugs a
failure - a moral judgment based on result rather than intent;
it's a war on people's liberty for pete's sake! - and still think
the grams per cop idea is ludicrous?
With "zero tolerance" an operational standard in many
jurisdictions, any citizen could be busted, with cause. If he
carried cash, American folding money, that is.
http://www.snopes.com/business/money/cocaine.asp
The whole thing is a scam, and whether the cops shoot pit bulls,
snakes, kittens, or people, it is all pathetic. Brave, new, 1984
pathetic.
>
> I notice you don't even bother to defend your nutty "grams of drugs per cop"
> argument, so I'll assume you realize how silly that one was.
>
>
> Bo Raxo
>
>
>
>
>
>
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 2:17 am
From: "Bo Raxo"
"SgtMinor" <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote in message
news:t82dnb67_8FjA9zZRVn-vw@comcast.com...
>
> How can a person, on the same hand, consider the war on drugs a
> failure - a moral judgment based on result rather than intent;
> it's a war on people's liberty for pete's sake! - and still think
> the grams per cop idea is ludicrous?
>
Because it's a stupid measure, apart from the intrinsic worth (or lack
thereof) of the thing being measured.
> With "zero tolerance" an operational standard in many
> jurisdictions, any citizen could be busted, with cause. If he
> carried cash, American folding money, that is.
> http://www.snopes.com/business/money/cocaine.asp
>
> The whole thing is a scam, and whether the cops shoot pit bulls,
> snakes, kittens, or people, it is all pathetic. Brave, new, 1984
> pathetic.
Here's the distinction you're missing: mission and execution.
They're two different things.
The whole mission, trying to wipe out illegal drug use by wiping out the
middlemen - is doomed to failure. That's a fact. Wish I could get rid of
the whole thing, and guess what, many of those cops who are on those raids
wish we could, too. It would stop funding the gangs that are the problems
in housing projects like these.
But those drug laws are a fact. And so if you're going to fight the gangs -
and the SFPD is smart enough to know they should - then you have to fight
the drug stashes, the dealing, the profit centers for the gangs. That's how
it works.
So you want to see the raids executed well, in a smart way. Was this one?
Maybe not, but the Bay Guardian which I took that article from is a very
liberal paper and tends to take a very critical view of police operations.
I seem to recall from following the story at the time that it was a big
raid, but then you want several cops per gun when you're taking down a big
armed crew. Was it done right? I don't know. But do I blame the cops
themselves for having to do it at all?
No.
So you see, two different issues. It's childish to conflate them, as you
seem intent on doing.
Bo Raxo
==============================================================================
TOPIC: the Russians agree to help the Palestinans with money
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/e4956100f61187d7
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:42 pm
From: "rst0wxyz@yahoo.com"
TBD wrote:
> Russia will pay the devil if they are against the USA.
Well, the U.S. help the Afghanistan and bin Laden fight against the
Russians in the 1980's in Afghanistan. Why not the Russians do the
same favor to the U.S. by helping the PLO? the Iranian? the Iraqis?
>In this case they
> choose to patronize terrorists. So they should not complain if someone
> decides to give money to Chechan terrorists.
The U.S. is probably helping the Chechen, too. And Taiwan, Japan,
India.
>
>
> "Komin" <veakrin@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145145602.029472.270380@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> > the Russian government agrees to give money to the Palestinian
> > government ,
> > in order to help the Palestinian government pay salaries to the
> > Palestine Liberation Organisation = P L O .
> > the US Black Magic Woman must be very angry .
> >
> > Colin Powell told lies in the UN concerning the Iraqi weapons of mass
> > destruction .
> >
> > Condi Rice told lies about the Iraqi weapons of mass Destruction .
> >
> > this shows perfectly well that Blacks in the USA have not evolved at
> > all , after 200 years in the USA ,
> > them Niggers continue to tell lies in the USA and now in the UN in
> > this New Century .
> >
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Spoof on Indian Call Centres
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/b86d19de8419ad6f
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:44 pm
From: "Gill Bentry"
indiaBPOking wrote:
> India this, India that! Can you guys give India a break and leave her
> alone for at least two minutes. :)
>
Sure! How about you quit spamming ACC for 2 whole minutes!?!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fulfilling the "American Dream."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a48ac432669ca64
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 6:48 pm
From: "Gill Bentry"
Max wrote:
>Yeah, it's another Hindu Nationalist racist throwing stones at the
>country that gave him a Visa to work there.
Hey Max!
How about I print off all their shit and mail it to each member of the
US Senate India Caucus!
http://www.usindiafriendship.net/congress1/senatecaucus/members.htm
I'm gonna start with Hitlery!!!!
aHahahahahaha!
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 7:01 pm
From: "Max Muir"
Gill Bentry wrote:
> Max wrote:
>
> >Yeah, it's another Hindu Nationalist racist throwing stones at the
> >country that gave him a Visa to work there.
>
> Hey Max!
>
> How about I print off all their shit and mail it to each member of the
> US Senate India Caucus!
>
> http://www.usindiafriendship.net/congress1/senatecaucus/members.htm
>
> I'm gonna start with Hitlery!!!!
>
> aHahahahahaha!
Good idea; but do it anonymously, for goodness sake!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Israeli settlers conspire to turn the Ibrahimi Mosque into a synagogue
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/f5098ad51f6c338a
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:02 pm
From: AnonMoos
"Theodore Herzl" <AntiZio_____________________Nazi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>AnonMoos wrote:
>>"Theodore Herzl" <AntiZio____________________Nazi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>AnonMoos <anonmoos@io.com> wrote:
>>>> Maybe if the Arabs hadn't stolen the Machpelah cave shrine in the
>>>> first place -- housed in a structure built by a Jewish king while
>>>> the Arabs were still wandering around in the desert worshipping
>>>> goddesses --
>>> Which Arabs?
>> The Arabs who launched the unprovoked wars of imperialist
>> colonialist aggression against the Christian Byzantine empire in the
>> 630s A.D., and who subsequently decided to confiscate the Machpelah
>> cave shrine as a supposed "mosque" (which it never was), as part of
>> the loot and spoils of their conquests.
>>> Do you have their names and addresses
>> Many of them are known to history. Their original leader was of
>> course the second caliph, `Umar (Omar).
> Well then, I would suggest you hunt them down and charge them with a
> crime and make them pay a fine or something.
You have a strange view of history and chronology. Try to work on
telling decades apart from centuries.
> But short of that, I fail to see any justification for Jews to
> attempt to commit a similar crime today by destroying a historic
> mosque.
They're not trying to "destroy" it -- just trying to preserve their
right to worship at what was originally a Jewish place of worship
(before the Arabs stole it). Even the Byzantines didn't prevent Jews
from worshipping there (as they did at some other sites.) Try to work
on telling the Machpelah cave shrine apart from the Dome of the Rock.
>>> or are you digging up 2,000 year old mythology
>> Nope, it's solidly historical. Just do a Google search on
>> "herodian" AND "Hebron" to turn up plenty of info.
> So you are digging up 2,000 year old nonsense that by your own
> statement IS HISTORY!!!!! History that has no relevance today
That's a rather shallow view of things. The theft by the Arabs
happened closer to 1000 than 2000 years ago; and in any case, if the
Arabs now own something which was originally reverenced and originally
built by the Jews, but which the Arabs now want to keep Jew-free
("Judenrein"), then time is pretty much irrelevant. Just ask the
Hindus about the Ayodhya temple -- and the Machpelah cave shrine in
Hebron is a much more blatant and flagrant case than the Ayodhya
temple. If the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya were built within the old
still-standing walls of the Ramjanmabhoomi Hindu temple, then that
would be an exact analogy to the so-called "Ibrahimi mosque"[sic]
built within the Machpelah cave shrine.
> History that certainly does not make today's Arabs culpable.
It doesn't make today's Arabs individually culpable, but nevertheless,
they're collectively enjoying today the fruits of the Arabs'
unprovoked wars of imperialist colonialist aggression against the
Christian Byzantine empire in the 630s A.D., and the loot and spoils
which they plundered in their conquests.
> Should we punish all of today's Jews and those born in the future
> for Christ's murder?
The Romans killed Christ.
>>> One might ask who the Jews/Hebrews stole the land from when they
>>> arrived as wandering Gypsies under David
>> I think you need to learn the difference between David and Joshua!
> It doesn't matter It is old news.
It's useful in showing your utter pathetic ignorance of history.
>>> Afer all, your ancestors (if you are a real Jews and not an
>>> AshkeNazi)
>> I'm not a Jew at all -- and only petty little racist hate-bigots
>> like you seem to be obsessed with "blood". And if you weren't a
>> complete and utter ignoramus, you would know that the word
>> "Ashkenazi" (which in the Bible referred to Scythians in modern
>> Azerbaijan, not to Jews at all) has a true [z] or Zayin sound,
>> whereas the word "Nazi" has a [ts] sound (resulting from affrication
>> of the "t" in the word National).
> So why do you support racist Jews if you are not a jew?
The only racist I see around here right now is you.
>>> did not come from Palestine, they came from Mesopotamia.
>> That's rather pathetic, considering that it's far from certain that
>> Abraham's "Ur" was the Sumerian "Ur". It's quite pathetic that you
>> have overall contempt for the Bible, but eagerly seize onto a
>> simplistically literalistic interpretation of any passage which you
>> feel you can use to augment your bigoted racist hatred of "DA JOOZ".
> I don't hate Jews, I hate Zionazis, which are two different animals
> all together.
In other words, you hate all Jews except for a tiny Neturei Qarta
minority (who are really a tiny irrelevant sideshow in the scope of
world Judaism today).
> Perhaps you are German by ancetry?
The racist is always obsessed with "blood". Maybe you could join
Slytherin House -- I hear they're against racial mixing with
"mudbloods".
>>>> and hadn't imposed the bigoted racist rule that Jews could only
>>>> stay outside and look in through the crack in the seventh step of
>>>> the outside staircase, then there would be fewer problems now.
>>>> But then of course, the al-Khalilis always seem to have been
>>>> bigoted assholes from the 1929 pogrom down to the present...
>> Just like you, in fact, Herzie-baby....
%!
/m{moveto}def/O{show}def/L{rlineto}def/c{57 0 360 arc gsave 1 setgray
fill grestore stroke}def/Times-Roman 25 selectfont/f{-128 102 m 257 0
L -104 -60 L 0 -55 L 125 72 L 0 90 L -347 0 L 3 setlinewidth stroke
-56 117 m(NON EST)O 30 rotate 79 -8 m(EST)O 90 rotate 0}def 300 484
translate f f f newpath 176 102 c c -176 102 c -202 c -34 137 -216 96
m(FILIUS)O 96 m(PATER)O -7 m(DEUS)O -54 -210 m(SPIRITUS)O showpage%PS
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Videotape Recorder Turns 50
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/66386290480d314c
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 8:57 pm
From: Nimrod ``
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 16:03:14 -0700, ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:
>in article zGtBRAXMcKnRRSp3LbYXZLGCxqTi@4ax.com, Nimrod `` at
>rodnim9@nod.com wrote on 4/15/06 2:58 PM:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:52:34 GMT, "Steven L."
>> <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe Gillis wrote:
>>>> http://tvtechnology.com/features/news/2006.04.12-n_the_video_tape_02.shtml
>>>>
>>>> The Videotape Recorder Turns 50
>>>>
>>>> Routine NAB preview event showcased revolutionary technology
>>>>
>>>> by James E. O'Neal
>>>>
>>>> The Ampex video recorder is unveiled at the NARTB show in Chicago,
>>>> April 14, 1956.
>>>
>>> Obviously the Ampex design was so big and expensive that only
>>> corporations could afford it. And like audio tape recorders, you had to
>>> struggle with clumsily threading big reels of tape.
>>>
>>> For consumers, the big breakthrough was made by Sony, who developed the
>>> first consumer-oriented Video *Cassette* Recorder, VCR. An early
>>> prototype of the Sony VCR was demonstrated at the 1964-65 New York
>>> World's Fair.
>>
>> Then they shot themselves in the foot by refusing to allow open use of
>> their Beta cassette design....insisting on being paid for its use by
>> video distributors, forcing the distributors to throw their weight
>> behind the inferior VHS cassette and dooming the Sony Betamax. We
>> would have had smaller cassettes with better picture and sound
>> reproduction until DVD came along if Sony hadn't been so hard-nosed
>> and greedy.
>>
>>
>> N``
>
>That's part of it,
That was MOST of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax
The legacy of Betamax
The VHS format's defeat of the Betamax format became a classic
marketing case study, now identified with the verbal phrase "to
Betamax", wherein a proprietary technology format is overwhelmed in
the market by a format allowing multiple, competing, licensed
manufacturers, as in: "Apple Betamaxed themselves out of the PC
market." Sony's confidence in its ability to dictate the industry
standard backfired when JVC made the tactical decision to engage in
open sharing of its VHS technology. JVC sacrificed substantial
potential earnings by going the open sharing route, but that decision
ultimately won the standards war. By 1984, forty companies utilized
the VHS format in comparison with Betamax's twelve. Sony finally
conceded defeat in 1988 when it too began producing VHS recorders.
N``
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Felix Rodriguez, 64, was part of the infiltration team that sneaked...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/20e6ebf27b50748c
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 9:53 pm
From: "PM"
FELIX RODRIGUEZ ES UNO DE LOS HEROES DE NUESTRO PEUBLO CUBANO !
ABAJO LA DICTADURA ESTALINANA DE KASSTRO EL TRAIDOR MAXIMO A CUBA !
AUDIO -VIDEO...
http://talcualdigital.com/video_editorial/playerLista.asp
http://talcualdigital.com/video_editorial/playerLista.asp
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
enlaces sobre Cuba
www.therealcuba.com
http://www.cubafotos.net/cubafotos1.htm
Noticuba Internacional
www.noticubainternacional.com
http://www.cubafotos.net/cubafotos1.htm
http://www.wisc.edu/arth/ah349/20c_01.html
http://www.chileblog.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=listarticles&secid=15
http://argentina.indymedia.org/news/2005/12/361336.php
http://www.juanperez.com/comerciales/tv.html
http://www.amigospais-guaracabuya.org
Sobre el ASESINO che:
http://members.aol.com/Guanabacoa/che.html
http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm
http://ernesto-el-che-guevara.piranho.de/
http://www.martinoticias.com/media/audio/M-001_051004.wma
http://www.martinoticias.com/MMtv.asp
Corrupcion_en_Cuba
http://www.cadal.org/libros/pdf/Corrupcion_en_Cuba.pdf
HAGA CLICK SOBRE ESTE TITULO >>>> URBANPHOTO -- Dos Días en La Habana
http://www.urbanphoto.net/havana/photo06.htm
http://imls.library.miami.edu/chcdigital/chc5017/ch
CALLES DE LA HABANA: (ESTE WEBSITE ES UNA JOYA)
Calle http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/calle23/index.htm 23
Quinta http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/quinta/index.htm
Avenida
Línea <http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/linea/index.htm
Almendares
http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/almendares/index.htm
Calle http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/calle26/index.htm 26
Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/ave26/index.htm 26
Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/ave11/index.htm 11
Avenida
http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/presidentes/index.htm
de los Presidentes
Rancho http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/rancho/index.htm
Boyeros
Monserrate
http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/monserrate/index.htm
Empedrado http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/empedrado/index.htm
Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/puerto/index.htm del
Puerto
Calle Cuba http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/cuba/ind
<periodistalibre@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1145151765.026559.257400@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Posted on Sat, Apr. 15, 2006 on MiamiHerald.com website
FELIX RODRIGUEZ, 64, was part of the infiltration team that sneaked
into Trinidad before the invasion to try to open up a second front. He
was in Havana during the invasion, and sought asylum in the Venezuelan
Embassy. A few years later, he led a CIA team that tracked down Ernesto
''Che'' Guevara in the Bolivian jungle. Today, he is the president of
the Bay of Pigs Veterans Association.
EDUARDO ZAYAZ-BAZAN, 70, fired the first shots at the Bay of Pigs as he
sneaked ashore with five other men as part of an underwater demolition
team. As the inflatable boat was nearing the beach, Cuban soldiers in a
Jeep heard a noise and turned headlights toward the water. Grayson
Lynch, an American who joined the Brigade, gave the order to fire, and
they did, destroying the Jeep. ''In Girón, the first shots were ours
when we went to take the beach.'' Zayas-Bazán is professor emeritus of
languages at East Tennessee State University.
MATTIAS FARIAS, 66, piloted a B-26 that was shot down over the Bay of
Pigs airfield and lost his co-pilot instantly. Badly wounded, he spent
several hours unconscious on April 17, but awoke on the battlefield and
helped defend the airfield until a plane landed to evacuate him and
others. The next day, he led the final bombing run on the Bay of Pigs
from an air base in Nicaragua.
ESTEBAN BOVO, 68, co-pilot and navigator of a B-26 doing bombing runs.
''It never crossed my mind when we were doing bombing runs that we
could lose. I was destroyed when I heard they lost. Completely
destroyed. Wednesday morning, when we were called to the flight shack,
it really touched me to see how many pilots were missing that we
couldn't account for.'' Fourteen Cuban and American pilots were killed
in the attack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Por algo lleva este hombre en apellido de BOVO...
Saven Ustedes cual es?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 7:29 pm
From: "Miguel"
PM wrote:
> FELIX RODRIGUEZ ES UNO DE LOS HEROES DE NUESTRO PEUBLO CUBANO !
>
>
> ABAJO LA DICTADURA ESTALINANA DE KASSTRO EL TRAIDOR MAXIMO A CUBA !
>
> AUDIO -VIDEO...
>
> http://talcualdigital.com/video_editorial/playerLista.asp
>
>
> http://talcualdigital.com/video_editorial/playerLista.asp
> __________________________________________________
De acuerdo Pedro.
Durante la guerra en El Salvador, ya retirado, fue a luchar contra el
castro-fascismo por su cuenta. A casa de mis suegros en El Salvador
llevaba los uniformes y otra ropa sucia para que se la lavaran los
fines de semanas. El resto del tiempo se la pasaba junto a las tropas
salvadore~nas en los helicopteros de un lado a otro. Su objetivo:salvar
a El Salvador del totalitarismo. Se logro. Algun dia lograremos la
libertad de Cuba. .
Un hombre digno que representa la lucha que nunca ha cesado contra las
hordas totalitarias. Oigan la entrevista a Felix Rodriguez donde dice
los detalles de la captura del "Chancho" asesino Che Guevara.
http://www.elveraz.com/TVradio.htm
>
> ------------------------------
> enlaces sobre Cuba
>
> www.therealcuba.com
>
> http://www.cubafotos.net/cubafotos1.htm
>
> Noticuba Internacional
> www.noticubainternacional.com
> http://www.cubafotos.net/cubafotos1.htm
> http://www.wisc.edu/arth/ah349/20c_01.html
> http://www.chileblog.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=listarticles&secid=15
> http://argentina.indymedia.org/news/2005/12/361336.php
> http://www.juanperez.com/comerciales/tv.html
>
> http://www.amigospais-guaracabuya.org
>
> Sobre el ASESINO che:
> http://members.aol.com/Guanabacoa/che.html
> http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm
> http://ernesto-el-che-guevara.piranho.de/
>
> http://www.martinoticias.com/media/audio/M-001_051004.wma
> http://www.martinoticias.com/MMtv.asp
> Corrupcion_en_Cuba
> http://www.cadal.org/libros/pdf/Corrupcion_en_Cuba.pdf
>
> HAGA CLICK SOBRE ESTE TITULO >>>> URBANPHOTO -- Dos Días en La Habana
>
> http://www.urbanphoto.net/havana/photo06.htm
>
> http://imls.library.miami.edu/chcdigital/chc5017/ch
>
> CALLES DE LA HABANA: (ESTE WEBSITE ES UNA JOYA)
>
> Calle http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/calle23/index.htm 23
> Quinta http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/quinta/index.htm
> Avenida
> Línea <http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/linea/index.htm
> Almendares
> http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/almendares/index.htm
>
> Calle http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/calle26/index.htm 26
> Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/ave26/index.htm 26
> Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/ave11/index.htm 11
> Avenida
> http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/presidentes/index.htm
> de los Presidentes
> Rancho http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/rancho/index.htm
> Boyeros
> Monserrate
> http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/monserrate/index.htm
> Empedrado http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/empedrado/index.htm
> Avenida http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/puerto/index.htm del
> Puerto
> Calle Cuba http://www.guije.com/pueblo/habana/calles/cuba/ind
>
> <periodistalibre@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 1145151765.026559.257400@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Posted on Sat, Apr. 15, 2006 on MiamiHerald.com website
>
> FELIX RODRIGUEZ, 64, was part of the infiltration team that sneaked
> into Trinidad before the invasion to try to open up a second front. He
> was in Havana during the invasion, and sought asylum in the Venezuelan
> Embassy. A few years later, he led a CIA team that tracked down Ernesto
> ''Che'' Guevara in the Bolivian jungle. Today, he is the president of
> the Bay of Pigs Veterans Association.
>
> EDUARDO ZAYAZ-BAZAN, 70, fired the first shots at the Bay of Pigs as he
> sneaked ashore with five other men as part of an underwater demolition
> team. As the inflatable boat was nearing the beach, Cuban soldiers in a
> Jeep heard a noise and turned headlights toward the water. Grayson
> Lynch, an American who joined the Brigade, gave the order to fire, and
> they did, destroying the Jeep. ''In Girón, the first shots were ours
> when we went to take the beach.'' Zayas-Bazán is professor emeritus of
> languages at East Tennessee State University.
>
> MATTIAS FARIAS, 66, piloted a B-26 that was shot down over the Bay of
> Pigs airfield and lost his co-pilot instantly. Badly wounded, he spent
> several hours unconscious on April 17, but awoke on the battlefield and
> helped defend the airfield until a plane landed to evacuate him and
> others. The next day, he led the final bombing run on the Bay of Pigs
> from an air base in Nicaragua.
>
> ESTEBAN BOVO, 68, co-pilot and navigator of a B-26 doing bombing runs.
> ''It never crossed my mind when we were doing bombing runs that we
> could lose. I was destroyed when I heard they lost. Completely
> destroyed. Wednesday morning, when we were called to the flight shack,
> it really touched me to see how many pilots were missing that we
> couldn't account for.'' Fourteen Cuban and American pilots were killed
> in the attack.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Por algo lleva este hombre en apellido de BOVO...
> Saven Ustedes cual es?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 1$$ THE ONLY WAY TO LEGALLY EARN MONEY WITH PAYPAL! - FAST,SAFE &
SIMPLE $$1
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/1762cc39d57200d1
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 4:08 am
From: "Stoemp"
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generals Break With Tradition A Cry For Help
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/c3da8a817ed7dd1a
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 7:10 pm
From: "Billy"
Since when is a retired General selling a book, breaking tradition?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Australia - Now Taiwan is buying aussie uranium - criminal enterprise
continues as australia
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/716fbd525c17ccb6
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:46 pm
From: Hunter01
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
> innuendo, allegation, libel and mockery
Sums up the hindutva movement's modus operandi exactly. In fact it ain't
that far off Indian politics either....
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Secondary factors why Eyeran wants nukes
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/a6b2f655b2a3f198
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 10:23 pm
From: Vince
Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:28:49 -0400, Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
>
>> That is why you have a "reprocessing plant" it is designed to handle
>> high level radioactive material and produce low level material suitable
>> as feed stock
>
> Vince, get a clue or shut up and stop embarassing yourself.
>
> A reprocessing plant is a fiendish bit pf engineering, because its raw
> material is high-level waste. If all you need is a bit of uranium
> hexafluoride to stick in a centrifuge, then start from freshly mined
> ore. It's just the same chemical problem, but you don't have the
> radiological hazard to deal with.
>
not the issue
> Waste isn't reprocessed to extract uranium, because it's just too cheap
> and easy to buy it fresh from mines. Equally there's no market for
> reprocessing Pu from reactor waste fuel because that's even more
> expensive (you have to design a reactor capable of burning an awkward Pu
> or MOX fuel, not just U). Japan does it to get rid of the stuff for
> political reasons and because BNFL's monstrous pink elephant of THORP
> offers bargain rates just to have _something_ to work on. The economics
> of this are what embarassed the whole reprocessing industry in the '70s
> - it's just not _worth_ reprocessing, let alone the disposal problems.
>
> If you want to enrich fuel for a low-enrichment U reactor, such asa
> PWR, then go ahead and build a centrifuge plant. It's easy and IAEA
> won't have a problem with it. For a centrifuge capable of getting to
> weapons grade enrichments, you're into a whole new can of woms. Even the
> raw steel and the right sort of bearing are seriously controlled trade
> items.
>
We are not talking about economics we are talking about making a bomb.
Im not saying that reprocessing is the most efficient way of getting the
fissile material. However if you have a reactor using partially enriched
uranium extracting the U-235 is very straight forward
Vince
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 7:31 pm
From: Vince
Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
>
> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
> :>
> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :> :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:
> :> :>
> :> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote: :> :>
> :> :> :Fred J. McCall wrote: :> ianparker2@gmail.com wrote: :> :> :Yes but
> :> :> :> if you have 10,000 centrfuges and a reprocessing facility :> :>
> :> :> :everyone knows that one could be cobbled together fairly quickly if
> :> :> :> :> :required. Perhaps that is all that is needed for the desired
> :> :> :> political :> :pressure. :> :> If you have 10,000 centrifuges (and
> :> :> a :> bunch of uranium) you don't need :> a reprocessing facility. :>
> :> :> :> :> The centrifuges are used for enriching uranium. The
> :> :> reprocessing :> :> facility is for separating plutonium from a
> :> :> nuclear fuel burn. The :> :> former gives you material that can
> :> :> probably "cobbled together :> fairly :> quickly" into a (gun-type)
> :> :> bomb if required. The latter :> gives you :> plutonium, which is a
> :> :> much harder problem to turn into a :> working :> weapon (and
> :> :> "cobbling" just won't get it). :> :> Please :> learn something about
> :> :> the technologies behind what you are :> talking :> about. :
> :> :> :Reprocessing facilities also describes extracting uranium :> from
> :> :> spent :reactor fuel elements :> :> Which has nothing to do with
> :> :> making a bomb, which is what is being :> talked about. The uranium
> :> :> from fuel rods would need to be further :> enriched (and there isn't
> :> :> enough of it to do that, generally - you're :> better off just
> :> :> starting from tons of ore). : :nonsense. spent Reactor fuel is
> :> :> already enriched (3-5%), so it is the :best possible feedstock for
> :> :> the Centrifuge.
> :> :>
> :> :> Nope. The nuclear burn process creates uranium isotopes (like U236,
> :> :> I think - working from memory so that may not be right) that you
> :> :> don't want in there.
> :> :>
> :> :> :"A PWR has fuel assemblies of 200-300 rods each, arranged vertically
> :> :> in :the core, and a large reactor would have about 150-250 fuel
> :> :> assemblies :with 80-100 tonnes of uranium. : :80-100 tons of uranium
> :> :> enriched to 5% is a huge amount of U-235 :even partially spent fuel
> :> :> rods can be about 3% u=235
> :> :>
> :> :> But it's hard to get out. Easier to start with ore unless you can
> :> :> start with a brand new core. Even then, the metal may be locked up
> :> :> in a form where it's difficult to get back out by design.
> :> :>
> :> :
> :> :its not hard at all
> :> :
> :> : REX
> :> :
> :> : The PUREX process can be modified to make a UREX (URanium EXtraction)
> :> :process which could be used to save space inside high level nuclear
> :> :waste disposal sites, such as Yucca Mountain, by removing the uranium
> :> :which makes up the vast majority of the mass and volume of used fuel and
> :> :recycling it as reprocessed uranium.
> :> :
> :> : The UREX process is a PUREX process which has been modified to prevent
> :> :the plutonium being extracted. This can be done by adding a plutonium
> :> :reductant before the first metal extraction step. In the UREX process,
> :> :~99.9% of the Uranium and >95% of Technetium are separated from each
> :> :other and the other fission products and actinides. The key is the
> :> :addition of acetohydroxamic acid (AHA) to the extraction and scrub
> :> :sections of the process. The addition of AHA greatly diminishes the
> :> :extractability of Plutonium and Neptunium, providing greater
> :> :proliferation resistance than with the plutonium extraction stage of the
> :> :PUREX process.
> :> :
> :> : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing
> :>
> :> I said hard, not impossible. Fuel rod reprocessing is hard, Vinnie.
> :> That's one reason that so few countries do it.
> :>
> :> The fact that there IS a process doesn't mean it is an EASY process.
> :>
> :> And after you do what is described above, you still have your U236
> :> problem.
> :>
> :> You CAN make a weapon out of uranium extracted from spent reactor
> :> fuel, but it's much harder to do than if you start from ore. DOE did
> :> it once as a 'science project'. It's a much more complex design.
> :>
> :> But you will continue to argue about things that you know practically
> :> nothing about, won't you?
> :
> :OFCS
> :this is well understood as a problem when you are down blending
> :
> :Process Parameters
> :
> :HEU Feed Assay [wt-% U-235] · [wt-% U-234] · [wt-% U-236]
> : Weight-percent of the fissile isotope uranium-235 and of the
> :byproducts uranium-234 and uranium-236 in the uranium contained in the
> :HEU feed (highly enriched uranium). U-235 assays are > 20% for HEU, by
> :definition. The assays of HEU currently being downblended are in the 40%
> :to 90% range. U-234 is a minor isotope contained in natural uranium;
> :during the enrichment process, its concentration increases even more
> :than that of U-235. Caution: Upon entry of a value for the U-235 assay,
> :or the HEU Origin or Tails Assay (see below), the calculator
> :automatically determines a value for the U-234 assay. In case the
> :estimated value is inappropriate, it can be overwritten.
> : U-236 is a byproduct from irradiation in a reactor and may be
> :contained in the HEU, depending on its manufacturing history. HEU
> :reprocessed from nuclear weapons material production reactors may
> :contain U-236 concentrations as high as 25%.
> :
> :http://www.wise-uranium.org/nfcubh.html
> :
> :its a well understood problem
> :You just adjust for it.
>
> You can't just "adjust for it" if you're building bombs, Vinnie. It's
> more than a minor adjustment to bomb design if the uranium contains
> any significant quantity of U236.
>
> Frankly, you've gone from merely ignorant (nothing wrong with that) to
> obstinately ignorant (lots wrong with that).
>
it just takes more u-235
vince
==============================================================================
TOPIC: : El misterio de La habana
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.usa/browse_thread/thread/ea1ba0b115e9a864
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 15 2006 7:17 pm
From: "PM"
De: "ricardo gonzalez" <gonzalez.ricardo.a@worldnet.att.net>
ObjetDate: 15 avril, 2006 17:57
-------------
El misterio de La habana
Tal vez aun no se haya dado cuenta, pero la Unión Europea es capaz cuando se
lo propone de intervenir directamente en los cambios políticos de otros
países. Lo ha estado haciendo últimamente sin el menor rubor, favoreciendo a
candidatos de su conveniencia y alentando la emergencia de grupos de
oposición democrática. Por ejemplo, Bruselas le abrió las puertas del
gobierno a la «revolución naranja» en Ucrania en las Navidades de 2004, para
proteger de las garras del oso ruso a los que desde entonces llamamos
demócratas. La intención era buena, pero ya sabemos como ha terminado
aquella historia en año y medio; con la derrota en las urnas de Yushenko, el
presidente al que ayudamos a llegar al poder. El mes pasado, se intentó
repetir la operación, alentando abiertamente a que los demócratas de
Bielorrusia se levantasen contra el sátrapa que les gobierna, un tal Victor
Lukashenko. El pretexto eran también los amaños electorales, aunque en este
caso, la operación «revolución azul» ha tenido aún menos éxito que la
ucraniana y toda la revuelta se ha ahogado en la complacencia de una
sociedad bien alimentada por la dictadura. De este lado, no ha habido
objeciones a una política que en otras circunstancias -no digamos si la
hubiera impulsado Estados Unidos- habría sido considerada como una
«ingerencia imperialista».
La pregunta que se impone es ¿por qué los demócratas cubanos no tienen los
mismos derechos que los bielorrusos? A Lukashenko se le va a prohibir que
viaje a Europa porque arregla las elecciones. Aunque sean dudosas, ¡al menos
hay elecciones! Y en cuanto al bienestar de sus ciudadanos, hasta ahora no
se han visto oleadas de bielorrusos huyendo a riesgo de su vida para no
morir de hambre. Con Fidel castro, sin embargo, se considera necesario
mantener un «diálogo político» aún sabiendo que es inútil para favorecer el
cambio. Todo el arrojo que Europa demuestra en Kiev y en Minsk se convierte
en apego en La Habana. Misterio.
Copyright © ABC Periódico Electrónico S.L.U, Madrid, 2004
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